Sound Normalisation - Toshiba REGZA SL
John
make television sets that have ability to normalise the sound so you
don't have adverts with excessive noise? I believe you can get this
on the Regza sets and its called Toshiba Stable Sound or Dolby
Volume.
Having read reviews for these televisions though it says that the in
built sound quality is very poor and its best to get an external sound
system.
I'm just wondering if you got an external surround system, would you
still have that stable sound or would you lose it? Would it still work
if you had the Toshiba set that supported it by running to external
surround system? Or are there many external surround sound systems for
home theatre that also have this ability when watching normal
television to normalise the sound and reduce noise from excessively
loud averts?
I also just wonder if there are any companies making Plasmas that have
this ability?
Jim Lesurf
<bo...@ymix.com> wrote:
> I just wonder if there are any other companies besides Toshiba that make
> television sets that have ability to normalise the sound so you don't
> have adverts with excessive noise? I believe you can get this on the
> Regza sets and its called Toshiba Stable Sound or Dolby Volume.
Dunno, but I find the 'mute' button on our remote control works fine. Who
wants to hear adverts - even at low volume?... Ditto for the 'fast
forwards' button for recordings. :-)
> Having read reviews for these televisions though it says that the in
> built sound quality is very poor and its best to get an external sound
> system.
Personally I'd be wary of any audio circuits that decide to play games with
the volume level. But then I do listen to music which has a dynamic range
rather larger than a lot of contemporary pop!
Slainte,
Jim
--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
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Ian
<no...@audiomisc.co.uk> writes
>In article <sal4469ldpoo6lvrl...@4ax.com>, John
><bo...@ymix.com> wrote:
>> I just wonder if there are any other companies besides Toshiba that make
>> television sets that have ability to normalise the sound so you don't
>> have adverts with excessive noise? I believe you can get this on the
>> Regza sets and its called Toshiba Stable Sound or Dolby Volume.
>
>Dunno, but I find the 'mute' button on our remote control works fine. Who
>wants to hear adverts - even at low volume?... Ditto for the 'fast
>forwards' button for recordings. :-)
>
>> Having read reviews for these televisions though it says that the in
>> built sound quality is very poor and its best to get an external sound
>> system.
>
>Personally I'd be wary of any audio circuits that decide to play games with
>the volume level. But then I do listen to music which has a dynamic range
>rather larger than a lot of contemporary pop!
>
>Slainte,
>
>Jim
>
turn the auto volume control off, as it causes the volume to fluctuate,
and adds distortion.
I assume it's caused by a "limiter" of some kind.
--
Ian
Dave Plowman (News)
> make television sets that have ability to normalise the sound so you
> don't have adverts with excessive noise? I believe you can get this
> on the Regza sets and its called Toshiba Stable Sound or Dolby
> Volume.
My fairly old Sagem has a switchable compressor for late night listening
which has this effect. But like all such things sounds dreadful.
--
*Okay, who stopped the payment on my reality check? *
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Scott
I thought Ofcom had banned this practice and indeed fined Channel 4.
Dave Plowman (News)
Ads in general do peak to below the maximum allowed. So if in the middle
of a brash loud show like say a game show won't stand out as louder. The
snag comes with older progs or films etc where the sound isn't so 'bright'
and may have a wider dynamic range than is common these days.
The only way to avoid this without ruining those progs would be some form
of rehearsing and adjusting the ad levels for each and every break. And
this simply won't happen due to cost.
--
*No I haven't stolen it , I'm just a shit driver*
David Paste
> I just wonder if there are any other companies besides Toshiba that
> make television sets that have ability to normalise the sound so you
> don't have adverts with excessive noise? I believe you can get this
> on the Regza sets and its called Toshiba Stable Sound or Dolby
> Volume.
I have a Regza set, and no, the sound quality isn't going to do much
for you if you are into your audio, but it isn't really much worse
than any other TV I've heard. When I first got the set, I did turn the
sound feature ion question on, but I didn't find it very good. It
actually didn't seem to make much of a difference at all, to be
honest. Off it went.
However... I have a couple of hi-fi speakers (Heybrook Primas, for
what it's worth) connected to the set now, the sound quality is fine
for me, but adverts do warrant the mute button. (Although that is rare
due to the PVR.)
Dave Plowman (News)
Mike Henry <{$mrtickle$}@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >Ads in general do peak to below the maximum allowed. So if in the
> >middle of a brash loud show like say a game show won't stand out as
> >louder. The snag comes with older progs or films etc where the sound
> >isn't so 'bright' and may have a wider dynamic range than is common
> >these days. The only way to avoid this without ruining those progs
> >would be some form of rehearsing and adjusting the ad levels for each
> >and every break. And this simply won't happen due to cost.
> Firstly, the cost should be passed onto the advertisers, since they have
> created this problem with their excessive compression.
Really? You've not understood what I've said.
> Backed up with new regulations, it simply would happen. Secondly, that
> is *not* the "only way". Another way - just for an example - is to
> reduce (say, halve) the maximum allowed peak for all adverts. Then they
> would all sound quieter and not crash into any programmes, new or old.
I take it you have no idea why the ads are there?
--
*I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder *
j r powell
"John" <bo...@ymix.com> wrote in message
news:sal4469ldpoo6lvrl...@4ax.com...
>I just wonder if there are any other companies besides Toshiba that
> make television sets that have ability to normalise the sound so you
> don't have adverts with excessive noise? I believe you can get this
> on the Regza sets and its called Toshiba Stable Sound or Dolby
> Volume.
>
> Having read reviews for these televisions though it says that the in
> built sound quality is very poor and its best to get an external sound
> system.
Our LG LCD 2-channel stereo set has it (as do most LG models afaik). It's called
"auto volume" by them, and does degrade the quality slightly, but its benefits
outweigh this in our experience, so I leave it on.
Dave Plowman (News)
> <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> >In article <bdb646hlr65q5l19f...@4ax.com>,
> > Mike Henry <{$mrtickle$}@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >> >Ads in general do peak to below the maximum allowed. So if in the
> >> >middle of a brash loud show like say a game show won't stand out as
> >> >louder. The snag comes with older progs or films etc where the sound
> >> >isn't so 'bright' and may have a wider dynamic range than is common
> >> >these days. The only way to avoid this without ruining those progs
> >> >would be some form of rehearsing and adjusting the ad levels for each
> >> >and every break. And this simply won't happen due to cost.
> >
> >> Firstly, the cost should be passed onto the advertisers, since they
> >> have created this problem with their excessive compression.
> >
> >Really? You've not understood what I've said.
> I have understood, thanks.
Perhaps then you'd give examples of the ads being too loud during a break
in a UK recently made programme?
> >> Backed up with new regulations, it simply would happen. Secondly,
> >> that is *not* the "only way". Another way - just for an example - is
> >> to reduce (say, halve) the maximum allowed peak for all adverts. Then
> >> they would all sound quieter and not crash into any programmes, new
> >> or old.
> >
> >I take it you have no idea why the ads are there?
> A non sequitur.
Really? Most would think it the crux of the matter. Do you think TV progs
make and transmit themselves?
But the answer for you is simple. Don't watch any progs with ads in them.
--
*When she saw her first strands of grey hair, she thought she'd dye*
Albert Ross
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>But the answer for you is simple. Don't watch any progs with ads in them.
I nearly went mental during the few days my Toppy was borked and I
actually had to watch TV live for the first time in years.
The trailers were even worse than the ads.
Dave Plowman (News)
Albert Ross <spam@dev_null.com.invalid> wrote:
> >But the answer for you is simple. Don't watch any progs with ads in
> >them.
> I nearly went mental during the few days my Toppy was borked and I
> actually had to watch TV live for the first time in years.
> The trailers were even worse than the ads.
I'd agree there as they're not regulated. BBC, too.
--
*"I am " is reportedly the shortest sentence in the English language. *
Scott
<{$mrtickle$}@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In <5139315...@davenoise.co.uk>, "Dave Plowman (News)"
><da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In article <iqr746dd7433m0mlf...@4ax.com>,
>> Mike Henry <{$mrtickle$}@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In <5138f67...@davenoise.co.uk>, "Dave Plowman (News)"
>>> <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> >In article <bdb646hlr65q5l19f...@4ax.com>,
>>> > Mike Henry <{$mrtickle$}@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> >> >Ads in general do peak to below the maximum allowed. So if in the
>>> >> >middle of a brash loud show like say a game show won't stand out as
>>> >> >louder. The snag comes with older progs or films etc where the sound
>>> >> >isn't so 'bright' and may have a wider dynamic range than is common
>>> >> >these days. The only way to avoid this without ruining those progs
>>> >> >would be some form of rehearsing and adjusting the ad levels for each
>>> >> >and every break. And this simply won't happen due to cost.
>>> >
>>> >> Firstly, the cost should be passed onto the advertisers, since they
>>> >> have created this problem with their excessive compression.
>>> >
>>> >Really? You've not understood what I've said.
>>
>>> I have understood, thanks.
>>
>>Perhaps then you'd give examples of the ads being too loud during a break
>>in a UK recently made programme?
>
>I said they used "excessive compression", obviously within the guidelines
>but it is excessive IMHO because the effect is that the adverts appear to
>sound louder than the programmes. This is particularly noticeable when
>they are inserted into older programmes. Hence features like "Sound
>Normalisation" on the TV in this thread. If there was no problem, the
>manufacturers wouldn't attempt to solve it.
I thought Ofcom was supposed to be moving to a subjective test. Does
anyone know?
Dave Plowman (News)
Mike Henry <{$mrtickle$}@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >Perhaps then you'd give examples of the ads being too loud during a break
> >in a UK recently made programme?
> I said they used "excessive compression", obviously within the guidelines
> but it is excessive IMHO because the effect is that the adverts appear to
> sound louder than the programmes.
Is 'compression' the latest buzz word, and do you actually know what it
is? Adverts use less 'compression' than is applied to the average radio
DJ. Do you complain about that too?
> This is particularly noticeable when
> they are inserted into older programmes. Hence features like "Sound
> Normalisation" on the TV in this thread. If there was no problem, the
> manufacturers wouldn't attempt to solve it.
Manufacturers sell all sorts of gimmicks, some which work and some which
don't.
Another approach would be to carefully re-master older progs sound wise so
they at least peak to what's allowed today. But given the lack of money in
commercial TV it ain't going to happen.
--
*Confession is good for the soul, but bad for your career.
Paul S
"Scott" <spiced.p...@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:e56946ttuf3ehm2p1...@4ax.com...
EBU working party (P/LOUD) is about to produce guidelines on loudness
measurement to enlarge on the initial work done in ITU-R BS.1770/1
This gives a way a measuring perceived loudness and will be the basis of
future regulations in several countries
Start here for more info http://tech.ebu.ch/loudness
HTH
--
Paul S
Dave Plowman (News)
Paul S <PAULatSONIFEXdotCOdotUK> wrote:
> > I thought Ofcom was supposed to be moving to a subjective test. Does
> > anyone know?
> EBU working party (P/LOUD) is about to produce guidelines on loudness
> measurement to enlarge on the initial work done in ITU-R BS.1770/1
> This gives a way a measuring perceived loudness and will be the basis of
> future regulations in several countries
> Start here for more info http://tech.ebu.ch/loudness
Could anyone explain how this will help? Your ears can already tell there
is a problem with ads in the middle of some progs - but no action has been
taken. Of course you could stuff everything through an Optimod type device
set on kill as pop radio stations do - but is this what you want for TV
sound?
--
*How can I miss you if you won't go away?
Paul S
"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:5139b28...@davenoise.co.uk...
> In article <Ou-dnXxY9Nuhx9jR...@pipex.net>,
> Paul S <PAULatSONIFEXdotCOdotUK> wrote:
>> > I thought Ofcom was supposed to be moving to a subjective test. Does
>> > anyone know?
>
>> EBU working party (P/LOUD) is about to produce guidelines on loudness
>> measurement to enlarge on the initial work done in ITU-R BS.1770/1
>
>> This gives a way a measuring perceived loudness and will be the basis of
>> future regulations in several countries
>
>> Start here for more info http://tech.ebu.ch/loudness
>
> Could anyone explain how this will help? Your ears can already tell there
> is a problem with ads in the middle of some progs - but no action has been
> taken. Of course you could stuff everything through an Optimod type device
> set on kill as pop radio stations do - but is this what you want for TV
> sound?
>
Well as you will have read the change in loudness between different program
contents is an issue because of optimod like algorithms maximising the
loudness of a signal without exceeding the limits that are currently defined
in terms of PPM levels. The new paradigm (normally hate that word but I
think it actually fits here) is that the levels of the
programs/ad-breaks/trailers are normalised to give the same perceived
loudness. The standard talks about a -23LUFS(IIRC) target so that all
station output will seem to be consistent in loudness terms. Since this will
become the legal framework in some European countries I can see it being
adopted by regulators or becoming the de-facto norm as programs are sold
across borders.
Ofcom has already fined ITV for a jump in loudness on ITV4 for a loudness
step between an old programme (Sherlock Holmes?) and an ad-break, once the
standard is ratified it would seem likely that they will use it as a stick
to beat the broadcasters into line.
--
Paul S
Dave Plowman (News)
But how will 'they' achieve the balancing of levels? Being cynical, the
cheap way is simply to stuff everything through an Optimod type device
which will attempt to make older progs more 'punchy'. And ruin the sound
in the process. Exactly like pop radio does with speech.
--
*People want trepanners like they want a hole in the head*
Paul S
Optimod devices work by effectively making all the frequencies high level -
this will be measured on the loudness meters as a increase of the perceived
loudness level so the whole signal will be attenuated to achieve the target
level. So sources with decent dynamic ranges will be allowed through and
sources that have been 'optimised' will be attenuated and will sound flat.
One of the main points of this work and the subsequent standard is to remove
the optimod tendency and encourage signals with decent dynamic range. The
other is to reduce the way that processing causes ad breaks to be louder
than surrounding programs by defining a way of measuring and normalising to
a target loudness level.
--
Paul S
widgitt
trouble is that you can hear it working even when you don't want to.
For example, background noise comes up on a quiet scene and then you
can hear everything cut back as soon as there is some speeck or other
sound.
I always turn it off.
The other trouble is that when the TV is connected to an item with its
own volume control, such as a Humax box, If you reduce the volume
using the Humax remote (which I know is tewchnically best practice,
but it is convenient), the TV then tries to compensate by increasing.
Many of the later CRT sets, including portables, had auto volume
feature and they are often the ones which are still used with seperate
Freeview boxes, with their own volome control, so it is always best to
check that the auto vol is off on these.
As far as the connection of audio systems or powered speakers etc to a
set...If you do want to retain the auto volume control, you can be
fairly sure by using the output from the headphone socket.
Samsung sets over the last year or two, however, disable the tone
controls and any other audio "features" etc when you connect to the
headphone socket, so if they do have the auto vol feature, this may
also be disabled.
With regard to the Toshiba Regza sets...I find that the treble always
needs to be set full up, the bass just above halfway, in the advanced
sound menu, the bass boost (or whatever it is called) needs to be set
on but low, and other features off, to get the best overall sound.
Then the sound can be a bit better than many other sets.