SCART problem
Jim
shows SCART picture in Green only (no Red or Blue).
Three different SCART leads are all the same, as are
both inputs on the TV.
If I pull the connector out a little from the TV, the
other colours are restored, but I lose the
auto-select, which is the reason for using SCART.
[Connection is currently using a separate 3-lead
composite interface, but lack of auto-selection makes
life difficult for the user.]
The player has no video set-up options to change. The
player worked OK on another TV though I'm not sure if
I used a RGB input. The DVD interface only uses 9
pins - I didn't write down the PCB markings but they
included audio left, audio right, R, G, B and at least
one ground, plus there is a select line. It's
possible there's a composite signal as well. A VHS
player seemed to work OK on the TV, but I'm sure that
must have been composite - I didn't have another RGB
device to test with.
Before I replace the DVD player, does anyone have any
suggestions I can try out. Could a poor ground
connection cause this fault, or else a mixed ground
arrangement between the two devices? The SCART
interface allows for separate grounds for each colour
signal, but I suspect they are common on the player.
Paul D Smith
> If I pull the connector out a little from the TV, the other colours are
> restored, but I lose the auto-select
Sure the SCART socket on the TV hasn't "collapsed" or perhaps come
unsoldered form the circuit board a little?
Paul DS
Brian Gaff
the life of me I cannot get the correct info out. This is really annoying!
Brian
--
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Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Paul D Smith" <paul_d...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:iapfu4$ekl$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Java Jive
http://groups.google.com/group/uk.tech.digital-tv/msg/06a9f6736bdb72ef
On Tue, 02 Nov 2010 16:55:15 +0000, Jim <j...@any.net> wrote:
> Trying to diagnose a problem with a DVD player which
> shows SCART picture in Green only (no Red or Blue).
--
=========================================================
Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's
header does not exist. Or use a contact address at:
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Bill Wright
> The player has no video set-up options to change. The player worked OK
> on another TV though I'm not sure if I used a RGB input.
Confirm that, first. Then try a different telly.
Bill
Jim
The TV is under warranty and I'm not going to open it
up. However, I've just remembered there's an old PVR
in the house with RGB option so I'll try that - if it
has the same problem, then I'll get the maintainer
to look at it.
Jim
> On Tue, 02 Nov 2010 16:55:15 +0000, Jim <j...@any.net> wrote:
>
>> Trying to diagnose a problem with a DVD player which
>> shows SCART picture in Green only (no Red or Blue).
>
> This has been asked at least twice here before, see for example:
> http://groups.google.com/group/uk.tech.digital-tv/msg/06a9f6736bdb72ef
>
Thanks, but that doesn't seem to be quite the same
thing - a complete green screen rather than video with
a green cast. One of the links describes how (some?
all?) RGB signals have a sync pulse on the Green, and
this can sometimes cause a green cast, but would it
block out the Red and Blue completely? [When the DVD
Player enters its screen-saver, the DVD logo floats
around changing between green, blue and red (on the
composite interface), but with the SCART, it just
stays green.]
I did some further searching and found a few similar
problems posted in various forums, but none offered a
satisfactory explanation. One user fixed the problem
by switching from RGB to composite in the set-up menu,
but that option doesn't seem to exist on this machine.
I'm thinking that the absence of red ground (pin 13)
and blue ground (pin 5) from the DVD interface might
be leaving the TV inputs floating. As I withdraw the
plug from the socket, the TV may detect loss of the
RGB sync and revert to composite, still in contact at
the "hooked" end of the connector. If this is right,
a hardware solution would be to tie those two pins
down to pin 9 (green ground).
Jim
It was a big CRT with one RGB SCART and one not. I
couldn't get behind it to check which one I was using
- should have used the AV select to confirm instead of
letting it auto-select.
How does a TV decide which input to use if both RGB
(or component) and composite are present? Does it
look for the RGB sync signal and give that preference?
j r powell
"Jim" <j...@any.net> wrote in message
news:E56dnbrRLOaQNE3R...@brightview.co.uk...
Looking at this thread, it's amusing how many gnomes have once again seen fit
to make postings with silly or obvious suggestions when they knowingly haven't
got a clue.
Java Jive's post is closest however; your DVD player is almost certainly
outputting "Component video over SCART" - a standard which most TV's do not
support and which imho should never have been allowed to exist. It should be
outputting RGB instead.
You said you cannot find a DVD menu option to change the video output mode -
have you tried looking for one when no disc is inserted? Often the presence of
a disc prohibits access to the player's own setup menu.
jamie.
--
Paul D Smith
> fit to make postings with silly or obvious suggestions when they knowingly
> haven't got a clue.
>
> Java Jive's post is closest however; your DVD player is almost certainly
> outputting "Component video over SCART" - a standard which most TV's do
> not support and which imho should never have been allowed to exist. It
> should be outputting RGB instead.
>
> You said you cannot find a DVD menu option to change the video output
> mode - have you tried looking for one when no disc is inserted? Often the
> presence of a disc prohibits access to the player's own setup menu.
Permit a "gnome" a silly question. If the TV is set to RGB and the DVD to
composite, why would Jim ever see a decent picture? Does this mean that:
1. The TV "detects" RGB somehow and despite settings will fall-back to
composite when Jim pulls the plug out slightly?
2. The DVD is sending whatever the TV needs to think there is RGB, even when
the DVD is set to composite?
Had this been "it's always green" then it would have made sense to me but
the "pulling the plug a bit" issue threw me somewhat.
Paul DS.
Dave Plowman (News)
Paul D Smith <paul_d...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Java Jive's post is closest however; your DVD player is almost
> > certainly outputting "Component video over SCART" - a standard which
> > most TV's do not support and which imho should never have been
> > allowed to exist. It should be outputting RGB instead.
> >
> > You said you cannot find a DVD menu option to change the video output
> > mode - have you tried looking for one when no disc is inserted? Often
> > the presence of a disc prohibits access to the player's own setup
> > menu.
> Permit a "gnome" a silly question. If the TV is set to RGB and the DVD
> to composite, why would Jim ever see a decent picture? Does this mean
> that:
> 1. The TV "detects" RGB somehow and despite settings will fall-back to
> composite when Jim pulls the plug out slightly?
Composite is at one end of the plug, so pulling it out at an angle *might*
do this. Although you're more likely to lose blue first - which is at the
other end.
> 2. The DVD is sending whatever the TV needs to think there is RGB, even
> when the DVD is set to composite?
> Had this been "it's always green" then it would have made sense to me
> but the "pulling the plug a bit" issue threw me somewhat.
I sort of lost the plot after:-
> > The DVD interface only uses 9 pins - I didn't write down the PCB
> > markings but they included audio left, audio right, R, G, B and at
> > least one ground, plus there is a select line.
Which made no sense to me.
--
*Organized Crime Is Alive And Well; It's Called Auto Insurance.
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Jim
Reading the Wikipedia SCART page more carefully, I
notice there's a RGB select line on pin 16 (with 18 as
ground) - this must be "high" (1-3V) to enable RGB
detection. With composite on the adjacent pin 20 (17
ground), it wouldn't be quite as easy as I thought to
leave 20/17 connected as 16/18 is broken when
withdrawing the plug, so making the TV switch to
composite.
Bigguy2010
On 03/11/2010 02:55, j r powell wrote:
>
> Java Jive's post is closest however; your DVD player is almost certainly
> outputting "Component video over SCART" - a standard which most TV's do
> not support and which imho should never have been allowed to exist. It
> should be outputting RGB instead.
>
> You said you cannot find a DVD menu option to change the video output
> mode - have you tried looking for one when no disc is inserted? Often
> the presence of a disc prohibits access to the player's own setup menu.
>
> jamie.
> --
This is almost certainly the correct answer... ;-)
You are sending YUV to an RGB input; Y is appearing on the G input.
That's why it's green.
Look in you Menu settings, change output to RGB.
Guy
Jim
> In article <iar6mq$9hk$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Paul D Smith <paul_d...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Java Jive's post is closest however; your DVD player is almost
>>> certainly outputting "Component video over SCART" - a standard which
>>> most TV's do not support and which imho should never have been
>>> allowed to exist. It should be outputting RGB instead.
>>>
>>> You said you cannot find a DVD menu option to change the video output
>>> mode - have you tried looking for one when no disc is inserted? Often
>>> the presence of a disc prohibits access to the player's own setup
>>> menu.
>
>> Permit a "gnome" a silly question. If the TV is set to RGB and the DVD
>> to composite, why would Jim ever see a decent picture? Does this mean
>> that:
>
>> 1. The TV "detects" RGB somehow and despite settings will fall-back to
>> composite when Jim pulls the plug out slightly?
>
> Composite is at one end of the plug, so pulling it out at an angle *might*
> do this. Although you're more likely to lose blue first - which is at the
> other end.
>
>> 2. The DVD is sending whatever the TV needs to think there is RGB, even
>> when the DVD is set to composite?
>
>> Had this been "it's always green" then it would have made sense to me
>> but the "pulling the plug a bit" issue threw me somewhat.
>
Detection of RGB is via pin 16 (18 ground), composite
on 20(17). It would be quite difficult to leave the
latter connected while breaking the former, but still
possible.
The idea that the DVD is sending the select voltage
(1-3V) but no actual RGB signals is intriguing, but
then how am I seeing the picture? I suspect what most
devices do when RGB or composite is selected is to
toggle pin 16 rather than switch off the unwanted output.
I should say that I have never used the SCART on this
player. When it was used with an older TV, there was
no spare SCART so it used the composite (phono plug)
interface. It's quite possible the RGB is just broken.
> I sort of lost the plot after:-
>
>>> The DVD interface only uses 9 pins - I didn't write down the PCB
>>> markings but they included audio left, audio right, R, G, B and at
>>> least one ground, plus there is a select line.
>
> Which made no sense to me.
>
I opened the machine and pulled out the SCART
connector. The small circuit board it was mounted on
was connected to a main board by 9-way ribbon cable.
The board carried a legend for the ribbon connector
terminals. The above was my recollection. Without
checking again, I would guess the 9 conductors comprise
left audio
right audio
red video
green video
blue video
composite video
function select (pin 8)
RGB select (18)
ground
Jim
OK, thanks. I understand Jamie's post now, and it
does sound logical, but I couldn't find the Menu
option for that. I'll have another root around to see
if it's somewhere other than the "Video" menu.
Failing that, I suppose cutting/grounding the RGB
select line on pin 16 would force the TV to select
composite.
Paul D Smith
> I couldn't find the Menu option for that. I'll have another root around
> to see if it's somewhere other than the "Video" menu.
>
> Failing that, I suppose cutting/grounding the RGB select line on pin 16
> would force the TV to select composite.
Post the DVD player make model and perhaps someone will be able to point you
in the right direction.
Paul DS
Paul D Smith
>
> You are sending YUV to an RGB input; Y is appearing on the G input.
> That's why it's green.
>
> Look in you Menu settings, change output to RGB.
And presumably some signal forces the TV into "RGB mode" because pulling the
plug out causes the picture to go colour, presumably by losing this signal.
So what signal might be being generated by the DVD in composite mode, which
causes the TV to select RGB mode?
Paul DS
Java Jive
18 is disconnected, thus forcing the TV back to using just the
Composite signal on Pins 19 & 20.
As I said in the originally linked post up thread, and as I think
we're all agreed now, the TV is expecting RGB, while the DVD is
outputting something else, probably Component, possibly RGB-SoG.
Either the DVD needs to be altered from within its menu system, or
else if it is outputting Component, it may have a different SCART
wired for outputting RGB. Alternatively, and perhaps more likely the
TV may have a second SCART wired for inputting Component. The OP
should note that RGB and Component commonly use the same pin pairs:
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/AudioVisualTV/SCART/SCART.html
On Wed, 3 Nov 2010 12:48:31 -0000, "Paul D Smith"
<paul_d...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> And presumably some signal forces the TV into "RGB mode" because pulling the
> plug out causes the picture to go colour, presumably by losing this signal.
> So what signal might be being generated by the DVD in composite mode, which
> causes the TV to select RGB mode?
Jim
> On Wed, 3 Nov 2010 12:48:31 -0000, "Paul D Smith"
> <paul_d...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> And presumably some signal forces the TV into "RGB mode" because pulling the
>> plug out causes the picture to go colour, presumably by losing this signal.
>> So what signal might be being generated by the DVD in composite mode, which
>> causes the TV to select RGB mode?
> I suspect the colour happens when the RGB status signal on Pins 16 &
> 18 is disconnected, thus forcing the TV back to using just the
> Composite signal on Pins 19 & 20.
>
Agreed, I expect the composite signal is present all
the time. It may be needed to provide sync for the RGB.
> As I said in the originally linked post up thread, and as I think
> we're all agreed now, the TV is expecting RGB, while the DVD is
> outputting something else, probably Component, possibly RGB-SoG.
> Either the DVD needs to be altered from within its menu system, or
> else if it is outputting Component, it may have a different SCART
> wired for outputting RGB. Alternatively, and perhaps more likely the
> TV may have a second SCART wired for inputting Component. The OP
> should note that RGB and Component commonly use the same pin pairs:
> http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/AudioVisualTV/SCART/SCART.html
>
No Component on the TV SCARTs. They're both
RGB/composite, with S-Video on one.
As stated in another post, if I can't find a menu
setting, I'll try insulating pin 16 on one of the
SCART plugs, to force composite. That should do it
until I replace the DVD player. BTW, it's an old Bush
model with something like "2047" as model number.
Manual has gone and no support was found on web.
Thanks to all for help.
Java Jive
Composite.
On Wed, 03 Nov 2010 15:36:33 +0000, Jim <j...@any.net> wrote:
>
> No Component on the TV SCARTs. They're both
> RGB/composite, with S-Video on one.
Ian Jackson
<ja...@evij.com.invalid> writes
>If you can't get RGB to work, S-Video would at least be better than
>Composite.
>
>On Wed, 03 Nov 2010 15:36:33 +0000, Jim <j...@any.net> wrote:
>>
>> No Component on the TV SCARTs. They're both
>> RGB/composite, with S-Video on one.
>If you can't get RGB to work, S-Video would at least be better than
>Composite.
>
Classical theory agrees with you, but I'm afraid that the manufacturers
of the three TV sets in my house must have missed the lecture when that
particular aspect of electrical engineering was dealt with! The pictures
are definitely better when fed with composite video than with RGB -
although, on the two which accept it, component is marginally the best.
--
Ian
j r powell
news:p8GdndBbIMvDqUzR...@brightview.co.uk...
> The idea that the DVD is sending the select voltage (1-3V) but no actual
> RGB signals is intriguing, but then how am I seeing the picture?
"Component over SCART" uses what would normally be the RGB green pin to
carry luma (a monochrome video signal with sync).
The RGB blue and red pins carry component difference signals ("blue - luma"
and "red - luma").
Therefore if the DVD is outputting component you would be seeing an
overwhelmingly green image on an RGB display because the luma signal is the
strongest of the three.
jamie.
--
j r powell
news:iar6mq$9hk$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> Permit a "gnome" a silly question. If the TV is set to RGB and the DVD to
> composite, why would Jim ever see a decent picture? Does this mean that:
>
> 1. The TV "detects" RGB somehow and despite settings will fall-back to
> composite when Jim pulls the plug out slightly?
SCART pin 16 signals the presence of RGB, so yes, if the plug is pulled out
slightly so as to disconnect Pin16 but leave the composite and ground pin(s)
conected, you would see the composite picture on-screen.
> 2. The DVD is sending whatever the TV needs to think there is RGB, even
> when the DVD is set to composite?
I suggested that the DVD is set to *component* - that's not the same as
composite. If you look closely you'll see it's a different word.
With RGB SCART, the composite signal remains present and is used for sync.
"Component over SCART" is usually the same in this regard, even though it
includes its own sync so the composite signal isn't used.
> Had this been "it's always green" then it would have made sense to me but
> the "pulling the plug a bit" issue threw me somewhat.
See above.
jamie.
--
Dave Plowman (News)
Ian Jackson <ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Classical theory agrees with you, but I'm afraid that the manufacturers
> of the three TV sets in my house must have missed the lecture when that
> particular aspect of electrical engineering was dealt with! The pictures
> are definitely better when fed with composite video than with RGB -
> although, on the two which accept it, component is marginally the best.
Could you define what you mean by
>'The pictures are definitely better when fed with composite video than
> with RGB
please?
--
*Monday is an awful way to spend 1/7th of your life *
Graham.
>> of the three TV sets in my house must have missed the lecture when that
>> particular aspect of electrical engineering was dealt with! The pictures
>> are definitely better when fed with composite video than with RGB -
>> although, on the two which accept it, component is marginally the best.
>
> Could you define what you mean by
>
>>'The pictures are definitely better when fed with composite video than
>> with RGB
>
> please?
It's his opinion, I can't see what there is to define.
Also some people have expectations of colour saturation that differ from the
theoretically "correct"
saturation delivered by RGB. Of course in some sets the colour control works
even with RGB
input, but for this to happen some transcoding must be taking place
internally.
--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%
Ian Jackson
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> writes
>In article <bs69kqFk...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk>,
> Ian Jackson <ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> Classical theory agrees with you, but I'm afraid that the manufacturers
>> of the three TV sets in my house must have missed the lecture when that
>> particular aspect of electrical engineering was dealt with! The pictures
>> are definitely better when fed with composite video than with RGB -
>> although, on the two which accept it, component is marginally the best.
>
>Could you define what you mean by
>
>>'The pictures are definitely better when fed with composite video than
>> with RGB
>
>please?
>
are sharper, and the colours are better. Don't ask me why!
--
Ian
Java Jive
to the menu system if they are in Timer Mode, waiting to record a
program. My Panasonic DMR is a case in point. I can't enter the
Setup menu and do a lot of other stuff when it's in Timer Mode.
On Wed, 03 Nov 2010 13:23:31 +0000, Java Jive <ja...@evij.com.invalid>
wrote:
>
> the DVD needs to be altered from within its menu system
Jim
I found the manual. There's no mention of RGB,
component or composite on the SCART connector, and
there are no video options in the menu other than
PAL/NTSC and brightness/contrast.
I masked pin 16 as indicated and the TV is now
selecting the composite input.