D-Sat/Freesat BBC 1 HD Wales

[Mark Carver]

A friend of mine, in Milan (Italy ;-) ), has this morning lost BBC 1 HD Wales,
(11023 H). He's rescanned with an English postcode, and restored Ch 108 to BBC
1 HD England, which is fine, and like all other HD and SD channels is showing
healthy signal parameters.

I know he's way outside the official footprint, but anybody else having
problems with either Wales and Scotland BBC 1 HDs ?

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

www.paras.org.uk

[Mark Carver]

Mark Carver wrote:
> A friend of mine, in Milan (Italy ;-) ), has this morning lost BBC 1 HD
> Wales, (11023 H). He's rescanned with an English postcode, and restored
> Ch 108 to BBC 1 HD England, which is fine, and like all other HD and SD
> channels is showing healthy signal parameters.
>
> I know he's way outside the official footprint, but anybody else having
> problems with either Wales and Scotland BBC 1 HDs ?

Mystery solved, I'd forgotten BBC Wales/Scot HD are on 2F, tighter beam etc

[Mark Carver]

Martin wrote:

> On Sun, 17 Mar 2013 13:46:38 +0000, Mark Carver
> <mark....@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Mark Carver wrote:
>>> A friend of mine, in Milan (Italy ;-) ), has this morning lost BBC 1 HD
>>> Wales, (11023 H). He's rescanned with an English postcode, and restored
>>> Ch 108 to BBC 1 HD England, which is fine, and like all other HD and SD
>>> channels is showing healthy signal parameters.
>>>
>>> I know he's way outside the official footprint, but anybody else having
>>> problems with either Wales and Scotland BBC 1 HDs ?
>> Mystery solved, I'd forgotten BBC Wales/Scot HD are on 2F, tighter beam etc
>

> Why did he lose it this morning?

Not sure, but it's back now. According to the Humax bar graph, 80% signal
Strength, but fluctuates between 40 and 60% on quality.

Weather there was overcast this morning, it seems he's just on the threshold
for 2F reception, 2D etc is 80/80% and rock solid. Bad news is more channels
are due to migrate over to 2E later this year, with similar 'unfriendly'
characteristics.

[Andy Burns]

Martin wrote:

> Why did he lose it this morning?

That was the question I asked myself yesterday, TV downstairs, fed from
Blake starbox5, has been fine for years, all muxes high strength and
quality, especially since DSO.

Yesterday morning, most muxes were poor signal, unwatchable Legovision,
apart from the ITV3/QVC mux which is lowest frequency here showed
middling signal, the highest frequency mux (BBC SD still up at channel
61 for a few weeks) was no signal altogether.

Retune found nothing more, lost the BBC channels, no reports of Waltham
on reduced power anywhere, neighbour OK.

I have two aerial sockets in the lounge, swapped to other one,
everything burst back into life, switched back to first socket in case
it was just bad contact (didn't feel very firm in either socket), nope
definitely only working on the "other" socket ... either one output has
died on the loftbox (are they driven separately?) or an internal drop
cable has suddenly "gone duff".

[Bill Wright]

Andy Burns wrote:

> I have two aerial sockets in the lounge, swapped to other one,
> everything burst back into life, switched back to first socket in case
> it was just bad contact (didn't feel very firm in either socket), nope
> definitely only working on the "other" socket ... either one output has
> died on the loftbox (are they driven separately?) or an internal drop
> cable has suddenly "gone duff".
>

I'm assuming that all channels have dropped by a large amount.

I've had domestic multi-output amps where the solder connecting one of
the output socket suddenly and inexplicably cracks, or maybe a
pre-existing crack widens, but it normally only drops the signal between
6 and 15dB.
If the signal has dropped say 20dB my first question would be, "Has
anyone been fixing anything to the walls upstairs?" Screws though coax
can drop the signal by any amount between 3dB and infinity.
If the flylead had broken inside it might be that in the position it
adopts for one socket it works, but the opposite happens for the other
socket.
Could it be that only one socket has ever worked and someone has swapped
the flylead across? (this is usually the cleaner or a small boy; both
highly irresponsible in my opinion).
We go out to this sort of thing in the flats and I'd say the answer is
'silly' about 80% of the time.

Bill

[Andy Burns]

Bill Wright wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> either one output has died on the loftbox (are they driven
>> separately?) or an internal drop cable has suddenly "gone duff".
>
> I'm assuming that all channels have dropped by a large amount.

Yes, my TV is decidedly non-techy in reporting signal strength/quality
the C29 mux showed no breakup but was "average" signal, C61 was a
complete "no signal", all others (C54,C56,C57,C58) were "poor" with
unwatchable breakup, the aerial is a DM26 on Waltham.

On the working socket (both internal runs, so no water ingress, 30odd
year old cable, so not double screened, but with fairly generous braid
coverage) all Waltham muxes are "good" and it also pulls in the main BBC
and ITV muxes from Sutton Coldfield and Belmont, also as "good".

> I've had domestic multi-output amps where the solder connecting one of
> the output socket suddenly and inexplicably cracks, or maybe a
> pre-existing crack widens, but it normally only drops the signal between
> 6 and 15dB.

I'll clear space for the loft ladder to have an outing and go up and
look at it.

> If the signal has dropped say 20dB my first question would be, "Has
> anyone been fixing anything to the walls upstairs?" Screws though coax
> can drop the signal by any amount between 3dB and infinity.

Not unless the neighbours have been using very long screws.

> If the flylead had broken inside it might be that in the position it
> adopts for one socket it works, but the opposite happens for the other
> socket.

> Could it be that only one socket has ever worked

they both worked at the time the loftbox was installed 7 years ago, I
used to have a TV on one and PVR on the other, only one has been in use
the past couple of years as PVR moved upstairs, no idea if I've swapped
and changed between the two sockets since then, fairly likely I suppose.

> and someone has swapped
> the flylead across? (this is usually the cleaner or a small boy; both
> highly irresponsible in my opinion).

No other occupants.

> We go out to this sort of thing in the flats and I'd say the answer is
> 'silly' about 80% of the time.

Just checked the "bad" socket again, today it's back to almost working
(all the waltham muxes are watchable with minor glitching, the
Belmont/Sutton muxes are non-existant on it) so it seems it could have
been like it for some time and only given noticeably bad results in poor
weather?

[Ulrich Onken]

On 17.03.2013 15:36, Mark Carver wrote:

> Not sure, but it's back now. According to the Humax bar graph, 80%
> signal Strength, but fluctuates between 40 and 60% on quality.

The signal strength of Astra 2F in Central Europe (outside of the
intended coverage area) is quite variable during the day, unlike 1N. The
radiation pattern of 2F has a sharp decline at its edges, and it appears
that a tumbling movement of that bird leads to these variations. When
the existing Freesat services on 1N are moved to 2E later this year,
reception on the Continent might become more challenging than ever...

73, Uli

[Bill Wright]

Andy Burns wrote:

> Just checked the "bad" socket again, today it's back to almost working
> (all the waltham muxes are watchable with minor glitching, the
> Belmont/Sutton muxes are non-existant on it) so it seems it could have
> been like it for some time and only given noticeably bad results in poor
> weather?

Quite often we get new multi-output amps where one socket is low; maybe
really low. Wiggling the plug usually varies the signal.
Of course, if the signal isn't metered and if the level on the faulty
outlet is adequate then the fault remains undetected. But if levels
generally drop (and it can of course be years later) due for instance to
the normal gentle degradation of antique coax, then the fault will often
be finally revealed.
If the amp is fully populated the solution is usually to use a good
socket to feed two cables via splitter. The splitter loss is
insignificant, because if 4dB matters then a much more radical solution
is needed anyway, for the sake of all the outlets.
The same sort of thing can happen when the amp is working perfectly. A
certain cable might be excessively lossy right from the start, but it's
only years later when the losses climb the the fault becomes visible.
All outlets on a new installation should be metered and even if the
level is adequate, if the level is 'out of line' with theory the fault
should be fixed.

Bill