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Foyle's War - Fail!
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The Other John
Mar 25, 2013, 12:36:58 PM3/25/13
to
At the risk of being thought an anorak - ok I *am* an anorak - I collected
bus numbers 60-odd years ago - Foyle's War last night was set in 1946
(after the 1945 opening scene) and in two street scenes a Routemaster bus
appeared. The first prototype Routemaster was built in 1954 and they went
into service in '56. Surely the production company could have hired an RT
type bus, there must be several preserved specimens.
TOJ.
bus numbers 60-odd years ago - Foyle's War last night was set in 1946
(after the 1945 opening scene) and in two street scenes a Routemaster bus
appeared. The first prototype Routemaster was built in 1954 and they went
into service in '56. Surely the production company could have hired an RT
type bus, there must be several preserved specimens.
TOJ.
Dave Plowman (News)
Mar 25, 2013, 1:55:01 PM3/25/13
to
In article <K2%3t.201570$Q01....@fx13.fr7>,
Quite. I've seen several restored period LT buses at shows, so I've no
idea why they used a RouteMaster.
Did you also notice the door entry system on a house? And of course the
usual ones on things this age - all the cars etc have twin tail lights.
--
*Re-elect nobody
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
idea why they used a RouteMaster.
Did you also notice the door entry system on a house? And of course the
usual ones on things this age - all the cars etc have twin tail lights.
--
*Re-elect nobody
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
NY
Mar 25, 2013, 2:49:33 PM3/25/13
to
"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:5332117...@davenoise.co.uk...
> In article <K2%3t.201570$Q01....@fx13.fr7>,
at one time? I've seen car with only one brake light but not just one brake
light. Or was it a temporary blackout restriction that carried over into the
first few years of peacetime.
news:5332117...@davenoise.co.uk...
> In article <K2%3t.201570$Q01....@fx13.fr7>,
> And of course the
> usual ones on things this age - all the cars etc have twin tail lights.
Gosh, did cars not have *two* tail lights to define the width of the vehicle
> usual ones on things this age - all the cars etc have twin tail lights.
at one time? I've seen car with only one brake light but not just one brake
light. Or was it a temporary blackout restriction that carried over into the
first few years of peacetime.
Dave Plowman (News)
Mar 25, 2013, 2:57:52 PM3/25/13
to
In article <IeidndMnivZpBs3M...@brightview.co.uk>,
Only one required until the early '50s. One of the few regulation changes
that required all cars to be retro fitted with two - regardless of age.
--
*I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it *
that required all cars to be retro fitted with two - regardless of age.
--
*I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it *
Roderick Stewart
Mar 25, 2013, 3:14:09 PM3/25/13
to
On Mon, 25 Mar 2013 18:49:33 -0000, "NY" <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> And of course the
>> usual ones on things this age - all the cars etc have twin tail lights.
>
>Gosh, did cars not have *two* tail lights to define the width of the vehicle
>at one time? I've seen car with only one brake light but not just one brake
>light. Or was it a temporary blackout restriction that carried over into the
>first few years of peacetime.
I bet they all had flashing indicators too. One of our family cars, a
>> And of course the
>> usual ones on things this age - all the cars etc have twin tail lights.
>
>Gosh, did cars not have *two* tail lights to define the width of the vehicle
>at one time? I've seen car with only one brake light but not just one brake
>light. Or was it a temporary blackout restriction that carried over into the
>first few years of peacetime.
Morris Shooting Brake, had those little solenoid operated sticky-out
flag things with a bulb inside, as late as the 1960s. At some point
all new cars would have been fitted with flashing lights, and our
previous car, purchased in the 1950s, had both types because my Dad
had added the flashing lights himself, but I think they were unusual
in wartime.
Rod.
Bill Wright
Mar 25, 2013, 3:15:23 PM3/25/13
to
the Midwife.
Bill
NY
Mar 25, 2013, 5:01:38 PM3/25/13
to
"Roderick Stewart" <rj...@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
news:5u71l8hckp3qu1vfe...@4ax.com...
solenoid flag things) but they had been disabled and replaced by flashing
indicators by the time she bought the car in 1966.
But it had two brake/tail/side lights, though I'm not sure whether those
were original or done at the same time as the later conversion to flashing
indicators. I knew that brake lights were sometimes central rather than one
at each side, but I'd assumed (apparently wrongly!) that right from the
early days of cars it had been mandatory for side, tail and headlights to be
fitted (and working!) on both sides to define the extremities of the
vehicle.
You live and learn!
news:5u71l8hckp3qu1vfe...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 25 Mar 2013 18:49:33 -0000, "NY" <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>>> And of course the
>>> usual ones on things this age - all the cars etc have twin tail lights.
>>
>>Gosh, did cars not have *two* tail lights to define the width of the
>>vehicle
>>at one time? I've seen car with only one brake light but not just one
>>tail
>
>>> And of course the
>>> usual ones on things this age - all the cars etc have twin tail lights.
>>
>>Gosh, did cars not have *two* tail lights to define the width of the
>>vehicle
>>at one time? I've seen car with only one brake light but not just one
>>light. Or was it a temporary blackout restriction that carried over into
>>the
>>first few years of peacetime.
>
> I bet they all had flashing indicators too. One of our family cars, a
> Morris Shooting Brake, had those little solenoid operated sticky-out
> flag things with a bulb inside, as late as the 1960s. At some point
> all new cars would have been fitted with flashing lights, and our
> previous car, purchased in the 1950s, had both types because my Dad
> had added the flashing lights himself, but I think they were unusual
> in wartime.
I remember my mum's Morris Minor, registered in 1960, had trafficators (the
>>the
>>first few years of peacetime.
>
> I bet they all had flashing indicators too. One of our family cars, a
> Morris Shooting Brake, had those little solenoid operated sticky-out
> flag things with a bulb inside, as late as the 1960s. At some point
> all new cars would have been fitted with flashing lights, and our
> previous car, purchased in the 1950s, had both types because my Dad
> had added the flashing lights himself, but I think they were unusual
> in wartime.
solenoid flag things) but they had been disabled and replaced by flashing
indicators by the time she bought the car in 1966.
But it had two brake/tail/side lights, though I'm not sure whether those
were original or done at the same time as the later conversion to flashing
indicators. I knew that brake lights were sometimes central rather than one
at each side, but I'd assumed (apparently wrongly!) that right from the
early days of cars it had been mandatory for side, tail and headlights to be
fitted (and working!) on both sides to define the extremities of the
vehicle.
You live and learn!
Dave Plowman (News)
Mar 25, 2013, 8:32:04 PM3/25/13
to
In article <_4edndmv4vF-J83M...@brightview.co.uk>,
at the rear and white at the front - they changed to amber a couple of
years later in the final version of the Minor.
> But it had two brake/tail/side lights, though I'm not sure whether those
> were original or done at the same time as the later conversion to
> flashing indicators. I knew that brake lights were sometimes central
> rather than one at each side, but I'd assumed (apparently wrongly!) that
> right from the early days of cars it had been mandatory for side, tail
> and headlights to be fitted (and working!) on both sides to define the
> extremities of the vehicle.
I think only the very first low headlight model was built with only one
tail light. And even that had a dummy on the nearside. Round on those
early cars.
It was also common on pre-war cars to have only the one headlight on dip,
but two on main beam. Usually in conjunction with a solenoid mechanism
which moved the reflector to lower the beam and switch off the second
light.
--
*Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
NY <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> I remember my mum's Morris Minor, registered in 1960, had trafficators
> (the solenoid flag things) but they had been disabled and replaced by
> flashing indicators by the time she bought the car in 1966.
It only just missed having flashers which became standard in '62. But red
> I remember my mum's Morris Minor, registered in 1960, had trafficators
> (the solenoid flag things) but they had been disabled and replaced by
> flashing indicators by the time she bought the car in 1966.
at the rear and white at the front - they changed to amber a couple of
years later in the final version of the Minor.
> But it had two brake/tail/side lights, though I'm not sure whether those
> were original or done at the same time as the later conversion to
> flashing indicators. I knew that brake lights were sometimes central
> rather than one at each side, but I'd assumed (apparently wrongly!) that
> right from the early days of cars it had been mandatory for side, tail
> and headlights to be fitted (and working!) on both sides to define the
> extremities of the vehicle.
tail light. And even that had a dummy on the nearside. Round on those
early cars.
It was also common on pre-war cars to have only the one headlight on dip,
but two on main beam. Usually in conjunction with a solenoid mechanism
which moved the reflector to lower the beam and switch off the second
light.
--
*Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
Brian J Forster
Mar 25, 2013, 9:24:31 PM3/25/13
to
On 26/03/2013 00:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
<snip>
> It was also common on pre-war cars to have only the one headlight on dip,
> but two on main beam. Usually in conjunction with a solenoid mechanism
> which moved the reflector to lower the beam and switch off the second
> light.
>
The near-side beam dipped so that the driver could still see the edge of
the carriageway. The offside lamp was extinguished.
I have here somewhere (though Lord knows where) the memoirs of someone
who was a test driver for Jowett just after the war.
He describes driving a prototype Jowett Javelin up the A1 and incurring
the wrath of drivers coming in the opposite direction for whom two
headlamps on meant "main beam". This suggests that twin-dip headlamps
were a novelty in 1946/47, or thereabouts.
It was also, at one time though I think not since the late 'twenties,
legal to drive a car with only one headlamp. I believe the contemporary
Morris Minor was like this, on cost grounds. It was described as a
"three-piece lighting set" - two sides and one head.
A friend of my late father had a pre-first war car. Carbide headlamps!
Two candles would have been brighter.
<snip>
> It was also common on pre-war cars to have only the one headlight on dip,
> but two on main beam. Usually in conjunction with a solenoid mechanism
> which moved the reflector to lower the beam and switch off the second
> light.
>
the carriageway. The offside lamp was extinguished.
I have here somewhere (though Lord knows where) the memoirs of someone
who was a test driver for Jowett just after the war.
He describes driving a prototype Jowett Javelin up the A1 and incurring
the wrath of drivers coming in the opposite direction for whom two
headlamps on meant "main beam". This suggests that twin-dip headlamps
were a novelty in 1946/47, or thereabouts.
It was also, at one time though I think not since the late 'twenties,
legal to drive a car with only one headlamp. I believe the contemporary
Morris Minor was like this, on cost grounds. It was described as a
"three-piece lighting set" - two sides and one head.
A friend of my late father had a pre-first war car. Carbide headlamps!
Two candles would have been brighter.
Clive
Mar 25, 2013, 10:02:05 PM3/25/13
to
In message <ouWdncwRg9ZMZc3M...@brightview.co.uk>, Brian J
Forster <Br...@2001.bjforster.force9.co.uk> writes
When we still had steam engines on our railways the fitters all had
Carbide lamps. I note that you say "two candles would have been
brighter" but these lamps were astonishingly bright, perhaps it was the
high quality reflector or because they were time served craftsmen, they
knew how to look after their own kit, the light unlike a torch bulb,
being pale yellow, these were brilliant white.
--
Clive
Forster <Br...@2001.bjforster.force9.co.uk> writes
Carbide lamps. I note that you say "two candles would have been
brighter" but these lamps were astonishingly bright, perhaps it was the
high quality reflector or because they were time served craftsmen, they
knew how to look after their own kit, the light unlike a torch bulb,
being pale yellow, these were brilliant white.
--
Clive
Brian Gaff
Mar 26, 2013, 2:24:57 AM3/26/13
to
Yes this has come up before I think.
Its probably one of those things people thought they knew but did not.
Brian
--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email: bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"The Other John" <no....@today.thks> wrote in message
news:K2%3t.201570$Q01....@fx13.fr7...
Its probably one of those things people thought they knew but did not.
Brian
--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email: bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"The Other John" <no....@today.thks> wrote in message
news:K2%3t.201570$Q01....@fx13.fr7...
Phi
Mar 26, 2013, 3:36:20 AM3/26/13
to
news:533235c...@davenoise.co.uk...
The red flashers in the rear lights could not be seen in bright sunlight,
due to the internal reflectors.
due to the internal reflectors.
jimguthrie
Mar 26, 2013, 3:41:10 AM3/26/13
to
On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 01:24:31 +0000, Brian J Forster
single central headlight mounted on a bar running across in front of
the radiator. It ran in this condition up till 1960.
Jim.
<Br...@2001.bjforster.force9.co.uk> wrote:
>It was also, at one time though I think not since the late 'twenties,
>legal to drive a car with only one headlamp. I believe the contemporary
>Morris Minor was like this, on cost grounds. It was described as a
>"three-piece lighting set" - two sides and one head.
I'm sute I remember my father's pre-war Wolesley Hornet having a
>It was also, at one time though I think not since the late 'twenties,
>legal to drive a car with only one headlamp. I believe the contemporary
>Morris Minor was like this, on cost grounds. It was described as a
>"three-piece lighting set" - two sides and one head.
single central headlight mounted on a bar running across in front of
the radiator. It ran in this condition up till 1960.
Jim.
Chris J Dixon
Mar 26, 2013, 3:59:22 AM3/26/13
to
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>In article <IeidndMnivZpBs3M...@brightview.co.uk>,
>> Gosh, did cars not have *two* tail lights to define the width of the
>> vehicle at one time? I've seen car with only one brake light but not
>> just one brake light. Or was it a temporary blackout restriction that
>> carried over into the first few years of peacetime.
>
>Only one required until the early '50s. One of the few regulation changes
>that required all cars to be retro fitted with two - regardless of age.
OTOH, I'm sure I remember buses having only a single dim brake
light well into the 60s.
Unless my memory can only distinguish "now" and "then" ;-)
Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
ch...@cdixon.me.uk
Plant amazing Acers.
>In article <IeidndMnivZpBs3M...@brightview.co.uk>,
>> Gosh, did cars not have *two* tail lights to define the width of the
>> vehicle at one time? I've seen car with only one brake light but not
>> just one brake light. Or was it a temporary blackout restriction that
>> carried over into the first few years of peacetime.
>
>Only one required until the early '50s. One of the few regulation changes
>that required all cars to be retro fitted with two - regardless of age.
light well into the 60s.
Unless my memory can only distinguish "now" and "then" ;-)
Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
ch...@cdixon.me.uk
Plant amazing Acers.
John Williamson
Mar 26, 2013, 4:40:42 AM3/26/13
to
On 26/03/2013 07:59, Chris J Dixon wrote:
> Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>
>> In article <IeidndMnivZpBs3M...@brightview.co.uk>,
>
>>> Gosh, did cars not have *two* tail lights to define the width of the
>>> vehicle at one time? I've seen car with only one brake light but not
>>> just one brake light. Or was it a temporary blackout restriction that
>>> carried over into the first few years of peacetime.
>>
>> Only one required until the early '50s. One of the few regulation changes
>> that required all cars to be retro fitted with two - regardless of age.
>
> OTOH, I'm sure I remember buses having only a single dim brake
> light well into the 60s.
>
Some still do :-/
> Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>
>> In article <IeidndMnivZpBs3M...@brightview.co.uk>,
>
>>> Gosh, did cars not have *two* tail lights to define the width of the
>>> vehicle at one time? I've seen car with only one brake light but not
>>> just one brake light. Or was it a temporary blackout restriction that
>>> carried over into the first few years of peacetime.
>>
>> Only one required until the early '50s. One of the few regulation changes
>> that required all cars to be retro fitted with two - regardless of age.
>
> OTOH, I'm sure I remember buses having only a single dim brake
> light well into the 60s.
>
Then they get serviced....
--
Tciao for Now!
John.
NY
Mar 26, 2013, 4:40:46 AM3/26/13
to
>Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:533235c...@davenoise.co.uk...
> In article <_4edndmv4vF-J83M...@brightview.co.uk>,
> NY <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> I remember my mum's Morris Minor, registered in 1960, had trafficators
>> (the solenoid flag things) but they had been disabled and replaced by
>> flashing indicators by the time she bought the car in 1966.
>
> It only just missed having flashers which became standard in '62. But red
> at the rear and white at the front - they changed to amber a couple of
> years later in the final version of the Minor.
Gosh, I'd forgotten red/white indicator lamps. The very early Mark I Ford
> NY <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> I remember my mum's Morris Minor, registered in 1960, had trafficators
>> (the solenoid flag things) but they had been disabled and replaced by
>> flashing indicators by the time she bought the car in 1966.
>
> It only just missed having flashers which became standard in '62. But red
> at the rear and white at the front - they changed to amber a couple of
> years later in the final version of the Minor.
Cortina (with the oval side lights rather than rectangular side+indicator
pair) had flashing side lights - the one marketed as Consul Cortina, with
the very long gear lever and the hefty metal bar sticking out of the
steering column with tab switches for lights, indicators etc, as seen in
Carry on Cabbie.
Did cars with flashing tail/side lights have two bulbs (one for tail/side
and one for indicator or did they have single bulb with circuitry that
intermittently turned the side light off at night when the indicator was
turned on).
> It was also common on pre-war cars to have only the one headlight on dip,
> but two on main beam. Usually in conjunction with a solenoid mechanism
> which moved the reflector to lower the beam and switch off the second
> light.
only half the road. I know how blind I feel if one of my dipped headlight
bulbs blows. And I wonder how many head-on accidents there were when
oncoming cars thought until the last minute that they were approaching a
motorbike because they could only see the nearside headlight approaching
until they got close enough to see the offside side light.
Dave Plowman (News)
Mar 26, 2013, 6:41:25 AM3/26/13
to
In article <dpidnQyiVLpr0szM...@bt.com>,
same bulb.
--
*When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty*
Phi <phi...@inbox.com> wrote:
> The red flashers in the rear lights could not be seen in bright
> sunlight, due to the internal reflectors.
That would then equally apply to the brake lights - since they shared the
> The red flashers in the rear lights could not be seen in bright
> sunlight, due to the internal reflectors.
same bulb.
--
*When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty*
Dave Plowman (News)
Mar 26, 2013, 6:43:19 AM3/26/13
to
In article <a6l2l89n8pe532stf...@4ax.com>,
street lighting may have been exempt from being retro fitted with twin
lights.
--
*What boots up must come down *
Chris J Dixon <ch...@cdixon.me.uk> wrote:
> >Only one required until the early '50s. One of the few regulation
> >changes that required all cars to be retro fitted with two - regardless
> >of age.
> OTOH, I'm sure I remember buses having only a single dim brake light
> well into the 60s.
> Unless my memory can only distinguish "now" and "then" ;-)
That jogs the memory. I think buses used purely in built up areas with
> >Only one required until the early '50s. One of the few regulation
> >changes that required all cars to be retro fitted with two - regardless
> >of age.
> OTOH, I'm sure I remember buses having only a single dim brake light
> well into the 60s.
> Unless my memory can only distinguish "now" and "then" ;-)
street lighting may have been exempt from being retro fitted with twin
lights.
--
*What boots up must come down *
Dave Plowman (News)
Mar 26, 2013, 6:46:26 AM3/26/13
to
In article <Op-dnZdch4iIwszM...@brightview.co.uk>,
watt type. The rear ones used the stop light filament controlled by a
multiple relay in the one box. Have one lying around somewhere. ;-)
--
*Time is what keeps everything from happening at once.
NY <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> Did cars with flashing tail/side lights have two bulbs (one for
> tail/side and one for indicator or did they have single bulb with
> circuitry that intermittently turned the side light off at night when
> the indicator was turned on).
The front white indicators had a double filament bulb - the usual 6/21
> Did cars with flashing tail/side lights have two bulbs (one for
> tail/side and one for indicator or did they have single bulb with
> circuitry that intermittently turned the side light off at night when
> the indicator was turned on).
watt type. The rear ones used the stop light filament controlled by a
multiple relay in the one box. Have one lying around somewhere. ;-)
--
*Time is what keeps everything from happening at once.
Bill
Mar 26, 2013, 7:45:56 AM3/26/13
to
In message <53326e0...@davenoise.co.uk>, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> writes
indicators. I remember the lump of plastic on the steering wheel hub
that operated them..
Sometime in the late 50's these failed and we had the official mod to
flash the side and tail lights. I remember this particularly because we
thought that the flashing lights wouldn't be noticed. They were very low
down due to the styling.
We also thought everyone would still be looking at the relatively high
semaphore and hand signal position.
I blew the engine up in 1966 and we traded it in. We never had the
optional heater fitted, so it relied on hot water bottles on the seats
before a journey.
--
Bill
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> writes
>In article <Op-dnZdch4iIwszM...@brightview.co.uk>,
> NY <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> Did cars with flashing tail/side lights have two bulbs (one for
>> tail/side and one for indicator or did they have single bulb with
>> circuitry that intermittently turned the side light off at night when
>> the indicator was turned on).
>
>The front white indicators had a double filament bulb - the usual 6/21
>watt type. The rear ones used the stop light filament controlled by a
>multiple relay in the one box. Have one lying around somewhere. ;-)
>
Our Standard Vanguard was bought new in 1949, and had semaphore
> NY <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> Did cars with flashing tail/side lights have two bulbs (one for
>> tail/side and one for indicator or did they have single bulb with
>> circuitry that intermittently turned the side light off at night when
>> the indicator was turned on).
>
>The front white indicators had a double filament bulb - the usual 6/21
>watt type. The rear ones used the stop light filament controlled by a
>multiple relay in the one box. Have one lying around somewhere. ;-)
>
indicators. I remember the lump of plastic on the steering wheel hub
that operated them..
Sometime in the late 50's these failed and we had the official mod to
flash the side and tail lights. I remember this particularly because we
thought that the flashing lights wouldn't be noticed. They were very low
down due to the styling.
We also thought everyone would still be looking at the relatively high
semaphore and hand signal position.
I blew the engine up in 1966 and we traded it in. We never had the
optional heater fitted, so it relied on hot water bottles on the seats
before a journey.
--
Bill
Clive
Mar 26, 2013, 8:59:31 AM3/26/13
to
In message <ard58b...@mid.individual.net>, John Williamson
<johnwil...@btinternet.com> writes
bus equivalent of the MOT, vehicles were steam cleaned underneath,
brought up to scratch then sent for the test. Afterwards the new items
put on were removed, I think the most common was the speedometer cable,
I can only remember one Bristol/Lodekka bus with a speedometer that
worked.
--
Clive
<johnwil...@btinternet.com> writes
>>OTOH, I'm sure I remember buses having only a single dim brake
>> light well into the 60s.
>Some still do :-/
>Then they get serviced....
I was a bus driver for a few years in Bristol and come the time for the
>> light well into the 60s.
>Some still do :-/
>Then they get serviced....
bus equivalent of the MOT, vehicles were steam cleaned underneath,
brought up to scratch then sent for the test. Afterwards the new items
put on were removed, I think the most common was the speedometer cable,
I can only remember one Bristol/Lodekka bus with a speedometer that
worked.
--
Clive
Dave Plowman (News)
Mar 26, 2013, 10:52:45 AM3/26/13
to
In article <I8Yko$3zuZU...@yewbank.demon.co.uk>,
Didn't think the speedo was an MOT item in those days. Might have been
different for commercial etc vehicles, though.
--
*We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart?
different for commercial etc vehicles, though.
--
*We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart?
Phi
Mar 26, 2013, 11:04:10 AM3/26/13
to
news:5332849...@davenoise.co.uk...
The MOT test was first introduced in 1960 under the direction of the
Minister of Transport, Mr Ernest Marples. The test was originally a basic
test including brakes, lights and steering check which was to be carried out
after the vehicle was ten years old and every year there after.
Minister of Transport, Mr Ernest Marples. The test was originally a basic
test including brakes, lights and steering check which was to be carried out
after the vehicle was ten years old and every year there after.
Clive
Mar 26, 2013, 3:26:14 PM3/26/13
to
In message <GpArodM0...@itsound.demon.co.uk>, Bill
<Billa...@gmail.com> writes
on hand signals alone for about 15 minutes. My children (now in their
up to late thirties), tell me it's no longer a requirement. If I
remember correctly and ICBW you had to be able to balance the car on the
clutch when making a hill start, whereas now it's, up clutch beyond the
balance point then handbrake of and away.
--
Clive
<Billa...@gmail.com> writes
>We also thought everyone would still be looking at the relatively high
>semaphore and hand signal position.
>I blew the engine up in 1966 and we traded it in. We never had the
>optional heater fitted, so it relied on hot water bottles on the seats
>before a journey.
In those days during a test you had to demonstrate that you could drive
>semaphore and hand signal position.
>I blew the engine up in 1966 and we traded it in. We never had the
>optional heater fitted, so it relied on hot water bottles on the seats
>before a journey.
on hand signals alone for about 15 minutes. My children (now in their
up to late thirties), tell me it's no longer a requirement. If I
remember correctly and ICBW you had to be able to balance the car on the
clutch when making a hill start, whereas now it's, up clutch beyond the
balance point then handbrake of and away.
--
Clive
snot
Mar 26, 2013, 4:02:40 PM3/26/13
to
There are 3 levels of servicing:
1. Do nothing. No MOT (or tax, insurance, servicing etc) - identifiable
by lights not working. I saw one car every day for years that had the
same light faulty.
2. MOT only - only the bare necessities done. i.e.one bulb - worn second
hand tyres. Identifiable by "service history? It's in the house
somewhere but I cant find it at the moment. I'm sure it'll turn up"
(after you've bought the car - not!).
3. MOT + service annually. Identified by lights working and good tyres.
--
Blow my nose to email me
NY
Mar 26, 2013, 4:13:36 PM3/26/13
to
"Clive" <cl...@yewbank.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:nnhf+dCW...@yewbank.demon.co.uk...
When I passed my test in 1981, you were still required to changed down
through the gears when approaching a hazard or junction, whereas they have
now adopted the IAM policy of staying in the current gear almost to the
point that the engine stalls and then either dipping the clutch if you need
to stop or else changing straight into the correct lower gear for
accelerating away again, depending on circumstances at the decision time.
Having got used to braking in top gear and then selecting the correct gear
as required, in order to pass my IAM test, I'd find it very difficult to go
back to the change down through the gears style.
So recommendations for tests do change over the years. After all, no-one is
taught how to double-declutch because synchromesh has rendered it
unnecessary: I wouldn't have a clue how to do it, even though (self-taught)
clutchless gearchanges (without the intermediate raise-clutch-in-neutral,
blip-throttle, dip-clutch-again) are second-nature to me.
I heard the other day that learners are now advised not to change down when
going down a steep hill (to give extra engine braking) but to rely entirely
on brakes. The justification is that braking using the brakes uses all four
wheels to decelerate the car and uses ABS if the car has it. But I think
I'll still use a combination of engine braking and footbrake when going down
a 1:3 hill :-) I'll have to ask my nephew who is currently learning what
his instructor has told him about not using engine braking any more, because
it sounds a bizarre recommendation.
news:nnhf+dCW...@yewbank.demon.co.uk...
through the gears when approaching a hazard or junction, whereas they have
now adopted the IAM policy of staying in the current gear almost to the
point that the engine stalls and then either dipping the clutch if you need
to stop or else changing straight into the correct lower gear for
accelerating away again, depending on circumstances at the decision time.
Having got used to braking in top gear and then selecting the correct gear
as required, in order to pass my IAM test, I'd find it very difficult to go
back to the change down through the gears style.
So recommendations for tests do change over the years. After all, no-one is
taught how to double-declutch because synchromesh has rendered it
unnecessary: I wouldn't have a clue how to do it, even though (self-taught)
clutchless gearchanges (without the intermediate raise-clutch-in-neutral,
blip-throttle, dip-clutch-again) are second-nature to me.
I heard the other day that learners are now advised not to change down when
going down a steep hill (to give extra engine braking) but to rely entirely
on brakes. The justification is that braking using the brakes uses all four
wheels to decelerate the car and uses ABS if the car has it. But I think
I'll still use a combination of engine braking and footbrake when going down
a 1:3 hill :-) I'll have to ask my nephew who is currently learning what
his instructor has told him about not using engine braking any more, because
it sounds a bizarre recommendation.
charles
Mar 26, 2013, 6:30:19 PM3/26/13
to
In article <l62dnR-H9u7snM_M...@brightview.co.uk>, NY
<m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
[Snip]
> I'll have to ask my nephew who is currently learning what his
> instructor has told him about not using engine braking any more, because
> it sounds a bizarre recommendation.
One of the problems with engine braking is, as a friend found to his cost,
if you change down when going too fast it does.
--
From KT24
Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18
<m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
[Snip]
> I'll have to ask my nephew who is currently learning what his
> instructor has told him about not using engine braking any more, because
> it sounds a bizarre recommendation.
if you change down when going too fast it does.
--
From KT24
Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18
Clive
Mar 26, 2013, 6:37:23 PM3/26/13
to
In message <l62dnR-H9u7snM_M...@brightview.co.uk>, NY
<m...@privacy.net> writes
of a test drive. I find that quite a few cars of the lower end still
have drums at the rear, and doing 70mph down a steep hill close to me
sorts out the men from the boys, the four disc cars seem to have no
trouble stopping but those with rear drums frequently fade when down to
about 30mph. This could be the difference between life and death. I
don't like to take chances.
--
Clive
<m...@privacy.net> writes
>I heard the other day that learners are now advised not to change down
>when going down a steep hill (to give extra engine braking) but to rely
>entirely on brakes. The justification is that braking using the brakes
>uses all four wheels to decelerate the car and uses ABS if the car has
>it. But I think I'll still use a combination of engine braking and
>footbrake when going down a 1:3 hill :-) I'll have to ask my nephew
>who is currently learning what his instructor has told him about not
>using engine braking any more, because it sounds a bizarre recommendation.
I'm one of these bods that likes to haunt showrooms with half a chance
>when going down a steep hill (to give extra engine braking) but to rely
>entirely on brakes. The justification is that braking using the brakes
>uses all four wheels to decelerate the car and uses ABS if the car has
>it. But I think I'll still use a combination of engine braking and
>footbrake when going down a 1:3 hill :-) I'll have to ask my nephew
>who is currently learning what his instructor has told him about not
>using engine braking any more, because it sounds a bizarre recommendation.
of a test drive. I find that quite a few cars of the lower end still
have drums at the rear, and doing 70mph down a steep hill close to me
sorts out the men from the boys, the four disc cars seem to have no
trouble stopping but those with rear drums frequently fade when down to
about 30mph. This could be the difference between life and death. I
don't like to take chances.
--
Clive
Dave Plowman (News)
Mar 26, 2013, 8:00:35 PM3/26/13
to
> I heard the other day that learners are now advised not to change down
> when going down a steep hill (to give extra engine braking) but to rely
> entirely on brakes. The justification is that braking using the brakes
> uses all four wheels to decelerate the car and uses ABS if the car has
> it. But I think I'll still use a combination of engine braking and
> footbrake when going down a 1:3 hill :-) I'll have to ask my nephew
> who is currently learning what his instructor has told him about not
> using engine braking any more, because it sounds a bizarre
> recommendation.
If my auto speeds up going down hill on a closed throttle and you touch
> when going down a steep hill (to give extra engine braking) but to rely
> entirely on brakes. The justification is that braking using the brakes
> uses all four wheels to decelerate the car and uses ABS if the car has
> it. But I think I'll still use a combination of engine braking and
> footbrake when going down a 1:3 hill :-) I'll have to ask my nephew
> who is currently learning what his instructor has told him about not
> using engine braking any more, because it sounds a bizarre
> recommendation.
the brakes, it changes down a gear or two to keep the speed constant
without braking.
--
*I'm pretty sure that sex is better than logic, but I can't prove it.
Dave Plowman (News)
Mar 26, 2013, 8:37:42 PM3/26/13
to
In article <TJsylaMj...@yewbank.demon.co.uk>,
brakes do far less work than the fronts.
But I must admit to being surprised you experience brake fade at 70 mph
on any modern car. My 30 year old Rover has rear drums and has no problems
stopping from much higher speeds than 70. In another country, obviously.
;-)
--
*Few women admit their age; fewer men act it.
Clive <cl...@yewbank.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> I'm one of these bods that likes to haunt showrooms with half a chance
> of a test drive. I find that quite a few cars of the lower end still
> have drums at the rear, and doing 70mph down a steep hill close to me
> sorts out the men from the boys, the four disc cars seem to have no
> trouble stopping but those with rear drums frequently fade when down to
> about 30mph. This could be the difference between life and death. I
> don't like to take chances.
Sounds like the front discs are undersized too on a low spec model. Rear
> I'm one of these bods that likes to haunt showrooms with half a chance
> of a test drive. I find that quite a few cars of the lower end still
> have drums at the rear, and doing 70mph down a steep hill close to me
> sorts out the men from the boys, the four disc cars seem to have no
> trouble stopping but those with rear drums frequently fade when down to
> about 30mph. This could be the difference between life and death. I
> don't like to take chances.
brakes do far less work than the fronts.
But I must admit to being surprised you experience brake fade at 70 mph
on any modern car. My 30 year old Rover has rear drums and has no problems
stopping from much higher speeds than 70. In another country, obviously.
;-)
--
*Few women admit their age; fewer men act it.
Andy Champ
Mar 27, 2013, 4:48:30 AM3/27/13
to
On 27/03/2013 00:37, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> Sounds like the front discs are undersized too on a low spec model. Rear
> brakes do far less work than the fronts.
>
> But I must admit to being surprised you experience brake fade at 70 mph
> on any modern car. My 30 year old Rover has rear drums and has no problems
> stopping from much higher speeds than 70. In another country, obviously.
> ;-)
Many years ago I had to go to Caernarfon a couple of times, and took the
> Sounds like the front discs are undersized too on a low spec model. Rear
> brakes do far less work than the fronts.
>
> But I must admit to being surprised you experience brake fade at 70 mph
> on any modern car. My 30 year old Rover has rear drums and has no problems
> stopping from much higher speeds than 70. In another country, obviously.
> ;-)
Llanberis pass. Shortly afterwards the front brakes started to vibrate,
and I had the discs changed. I got a second set of discs at a discount
price a few weeks later... and decided that perhaps a little engine
braking would be a good idea where it drops 250m in 4km.
This was a Cavalier SRi with "uprated brakes" - bigger discs than
standard all round.
Andy
charles
Mar 27, 2013, 5:03:12 AM3/27/13
to
Dave Liquorice
Mar 27, 2013, 6:36:24 AM3/27/13
to
On Wed, 27 Mar 2013 08:48:30 +0000, Andy Champ wrote:
> ... that perhaps a little engine braking would be a good idea where it
> drops 250m in 4km.
Yep, I came to the same conclusion after having the brakes fade on a
"spirited" decent of Hartside in a Mondeo using more of the brakes than
the gears. 380 m (1200') in about 6 km (3.75 miles) of a nice mix of
straight fast bits with sharp 2nd gear corners...
I shouldn't think that there are any cars on the road that can't stop
from 70 mph on the brakes only with the tyres on the edge of grip and the
brakes not fading. Losing a fair bit of height and driving hard along a
straight/bendy road for several miles places a rather larger heat load on
the brakes...
--
Cheers
Dave.
> ... that perhaps a little engine braking would be a good idea where it
> drops 250m in 4km.
Yep, I came to the same conclusion after having the brakes fade on a
"spirited" decent of Hartside in a Mondeo using more of the brakes than
the gears. 380 m (1200') in about 6 km (3.75 miles) of a nice mix of
straight fast bits with sharp 2nd gear corners...
I shouldn't think that there are any cars on the road that can't stop
from 70 mph on the brakes only with the tyres on the edge of grip and the
brakes not fading. Losing a fair bit of height and driving hard along a
straight/bendy road for several miles places a rather larger heat load on
the brakes...
--
Cheers
Dave.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
Mar 27, 2013, 6:24:13 PM3/27/13
to
In message <5332849...@davenoise.co.uk>, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> writes:
[]
work, FSVO work. (And I've heard it has to be in MPH not KPH.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.
-Thomas Henry Huxley, biologist (1825-1895)
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> writes:
[]
>Didn't think the speedo was an MOT item in those days. Might have been
>different for commercial etc vehicles, though.
>
For cars, it still isn't. At least, its accuracy isn't; it may have to
>different for commercial etc vehicles, though.
>
work, FSVO work. (And I've heard it has to be in MPH not KPH.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.
-Thomas Henry Huxley, biologist (1825-1895)
Dave Plowman (News)
Mar 27, 2013, 8:24:50 PM3/27/13
to
In article <4loOU1ON...@soft255.demon.co.uk>,
Speedometer
The car will fail if a speedometer is not fitted, is incomplete,
inoperative, has a dial glass broken/missing or cannot be illuminated.
--
*A 'jiffy' is an actual unit of time for 1/100th of a second.
J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <5332849...@davenoise.co.uk>, "Dave Plowman (News)"
> <da...@davenoise.co.uk> writes:
> []
> >Didn't think the speedo was an MOT item in those days. Might have been
> >different for commercial etc vehicles, though.
> >
> For cars, it still isn't. At least, its accuracy isn't; it may have to
> work, FSVO work. (And I've heard it has to be in MPH not KPH.)
It is now a requirement as of this year, IIRC.
> In message <5332849...@davenoise.co.uk>, "Dave Plowman (News)"
> <da...@davenoise.co.uk> writes:
> []
> >Didn't think the speedo was an MOT item in those days. Might have been
> >different for commercial etc vehicles, though.
> >
> For cars, it still isn't. At least, its accuracy isn't; it may have to
> work, FSVO work. (And I've heard it has to be in MPH not KPH.)
Speedometer
The car will fail if a speedometer is not fitted, is incomplete,
inoperative, has a dial glass broken/missing or cannot be illuminated.
--
*A 'jiffy' is an actual unit of time for 1/100th of a second.
Clive
Mar 27, 2013, 10:33:39 PM3/27/13
to
In message <4loOU1ON...@soft255.demon.co.uk>, "J. P. Gilliver
(John)" <G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> writes
says we must have a speedometer calibrated in MPH (Construction and Use,
I think) so we have every new car dual calibrated
--
Clive
(John)" <G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> writes
>For cars, it still isn't. At least, its accuracy isn't; it may have to
>work, FSVO work. (And I've heard it has to be in MPH not KPH.)
All cars in the EU have to be marked in KPH so ours are and British law
>work, FSVO work. (And I've heard it has to be in MPH not KPH.)
says we must have a speedometer calibrated in MPH (Construction and Use,
I think) so we have every new car dual calibrated
--
Clive
SpamTrapSeeSig
Mar 28, 2013, 5:39:38 AM3/28/13
to
In article <OVz1SF1d...@yewbank.demon.co.uk>, Clive
<cl...@yewbank.demon.co.uk> writes
>When we still had steam engines on our railways the fitters all had
>Carbide lamps. I note that you say "two candles would have been
>brighter" but these lamps were astonishingly bright, perhaps it was the
>high quality reflector or because they were time served craftsmen, they
>knew how to look after their own kit, the light unlike a torch bulb,
>being pale yellow, these were brilliant white.
Yup, carbide is bright if fettled properly. The issue is the black smoke
it can emit. In an enclosure this will quickly darken both lens glass
and metal reflectors.
Cavers and mineral miners have used it for well over a century.
--
SimonM
<cl...@yewbank.demon.co.uk> writes
>When we still had steam engines on our railways the fitters all had
>Carbide lamps. I note that you say "two candles would have been
>brighter" but these lamps were astonishingly bright, perhaps it was the
>high quality reflector or because they were time served craftsmen, they
>knew how to look after their own kit, the light unlike a torch bulb,
>being pale yellow, these were brilliant white.
Yup, carbide is bright if fettled properly. The issue is the black smoke
it can emit. In an enclosure this will quickly darken both lens glass
and metal reflectors.
Cavers and mineral miners have used it for well over a century.
--
SimonM
SpamTrapSeeSig
Mar 28, 2013, 5:44:41 AM3/28/13
to
In article <5332ba2...@davenoise.co.uk>, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> writes
although everything later has discs all round.
Stopping them always requires two days notice in writing though.
--
SimonM
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> writes
>In article <TJsylaMj...@yewbank.demon.co.uk>,
> Clive <cl...@yewbank.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> I'm one of these bods that likes to haunt showrooms with half a chance
>> of a test drive. I find that quite a few cars of the lower end still
>> have drums at the rear, and doing 70mph down a steep hill close to me
>> sorts out the men from the boys, the four disc cars seem to have no
>> trouble stopping but those with rear drums frequently fade when down to
>> about 30mph. This could be the difference between life and death. I
>> don't like to take chances.
>
>Sounds like the front discs are undersized too on a low spec model. Rear
>brakes do far less work than the fronts.
>
> But I must admit to being surprised you experience brake fade at 70 mph
>on any modern car. My 30 year old Rover has rear drums and has no problems
>stopping from much higher speeds than 70. In another country, obviously.
>;-)
>
My Defender 110 was in the last series to have rear drums. It's fine,
> Clive <cl...@yewbank.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> I'm one of these bods that likes to haunt showrooms with half a chance
>> of a test drive. I find that quite a few cars of the lower end still
>> have drums at the rear, and doing 70mph down a steep hill close to me
>> sorts out the men from the boys, the four disc cars seem to have no
>> trouble stopping but those with rear drums frequently fade when down to
>> about 30mph. This could be the difference between life and death. I
>> don't like to take chances.
>
>Sounds like the front discs are undersized too on a low spec model. Rear
>brakes do far less work than the fronts.
>
> But I must admit to being surprised you experience brake fade at 70 mph
>on any modern car. My 30 year old Rover has rear drums and has no problems
>stopping from much higher speeds than 70. In another country, obviously.
>;-)
>
although everything later has discs all round.
Stopping them always requires two days notice in writing though.
--
SimonM
SpamTrapSeeSig
Mar 28, 2013, 5:47:40 AM3/28/13
to
In article <yI2dnSGwcbLDL8_M...@eclipse.net.uk>, Andy Champ
<no....@nospam.invalid> writes
It was great fun to drive and he kept it when he took early retirement.
One day it burst into flames in the lane next to my sister's cottage.
They only just got out in time - in 5 minutes it was a total wreck.
Apparently there was no safety cutout fitted to the fuel pump in the
event of a high-pressure pipe failure.
--
SimonM
Dave Plowman (News)
Mar 28, 2013, 7:03:57 AM3/28/13
to
In article <@X1haYMJ...@virginmedia.net>, SpamTrapSeeSig
<no-...@nospam.virginmedia.net> wrote:
> In article <5332ba2...@davenoise.co.uk>, "Dave Plowman (News)"
> <da...@davenoise.co.uk> writes
even for such a heavy car. Twin trailing shoe at the front with a massive
mechanical servo. You could make them smoke - but they still stopped the
car just fine.
--
*I went to school to become a wit, only got halfway through.
<no-...@nospam.virginmedia.net> wrote:
> In article <5332ba2...@davenoise.co.uk>, "Dave Plowman (News)"
> <da...@davenoise.co.uk> writes
> >In article <TJsylaMj...@yewbank.demon.co.uk>, Clive
> > <cl...@yewbank.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >> I'm one of these bods that likes to haunt showrooms with half a
> >> chance of a test drive. I find that quite a few cars of the lower
> >> end still have drums at the rear, and doing 70mph down a steep hill
> >> close to me sorts out the men from the boys, the four disc cars seem
> >> to have no trouble stopping but those with rear drums frequently fade
> >> when down to about 30mph. This could be the difference between life
> >> and death. I don't like to take chances.
> >
> >Sounds like the front discs are undersized too on a low spec model.
> >Rear brakes do far less work than the fronts.
> >
> > But I must admit to being surprised you experience brake fade at 70
> >mph on any modern car. My 30 year old Rover has rear drums and has no
> >problems stopping from much higher speeds than 70. In another country,
> >obviously. ;-)
> >
> > <cl...@yewbank.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >> I'm one of these bods that likes to haunt showrooms with half a
> >> chance of a test drive. I find that quite a few cars of the lower
> >> end still have drums at the rear, and doing 70mph down a steep hill
> >> close to me sorts out the men from the boys, the four disc cars seem
> >> to have no trouble stopping but those with rear drums frequently fade
> >> when down to about 30mph. This could be the difference between life
> >> and death. I don't like to take chances.
> >
> >Sounds like the front discs are undersized too on a low spec model.
> >Rear brakes do far less work than the fronts.
> >
> > But I must admit to being surprised you experience brake fade at 70
> >mph on any modern car. My 30 year old Rover has rear drums and has no
> >problems stopping from much higher speeds than 70. In another country,
> >obviously. ;-)
> >
> My Defender 110 was in the last series to have rear drums. It's fine,
> although everything later has discs all round.
> Stopping them always requires two days notice in writing though.
I had a '50s Bentley with all round drum brakes. Which were excellent -
> although everything later has discs all round.
> Stopping them always requires two days notice in writing though.
even for such a heavy car. Twin trailing shoe at the front with a massive
mechanical servo. You could make them smoke - but they still stopped the
car just fine.
--
*I went to school to become a wit, only got halfway through.
Brian
Mar 28, 2013, 7:16:09 AM3/28/13
to
On Thu, 28 Mar 2013 02:33:39 +0000, Clive <cl...@yewbank.demon.co.uk>
wrote:
Every new car has had dual markings on the speedometer dials since at
least the mid-60s - long before membership of the EU, or even the EEC.
I think it probably has to do with the rise in popularity of
continental motoring holidays and the tendency of those countries to
the east and south of the UK to state their speed limits in km/h.
wrote:
least the mid-60s - long before membership of the EU, or even the EEC.
I think it probably has to do with the rise in popularity of
continental motoring holidays and the tendency of those countries to
the east and south of the UK to state their speed limits in km/h.
Paul Cummins
Mar 28, 2013, 11:08:00 AM3/28/13
to
In article <dd98l8tm5tj0r1kp8...@4ax.com>,
--
Paul Cummins - Always a NetHead
Wasting Bandwidth since 1981
---- If it's below this line, I didn't write it ----
Br...@2001.bjforster.force9.co.uk (Brian) wrote:
> I think it probably has to do with the rise in popularity of
> continental motoring holidays and the tendency of those countries to
> the east and south of the UK to state their speed limits in km/h.
as well as those to the west and north too.
> I think it probably has to do with the rise in popularity of
> continental motoring holidays and the tendency of those countries to
> the east and south of the UK to state their speed limits in km/h.
--
Paul Cummins - Always a NetHead
Wasting Bandwidth since 1981
---- If it's below this line, I didn't write it ----
MB
Mar 28, 2013, 11:45:10 AM3/28/13
to
On 27/03/2013 22:24, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> In message <5332849...@davenoise.co.uk>, "Dave Plowman (News)"
> <da...@davenoise.co.uk> writes:
> []
>> Didn't think the speedo was an MOT item in those days. Might have been
>> different for commercial etc vehicles, though.
>>
> For cars, it still isn't. At least, its accuracy isn't; it may have to
> work, FSVO work. (And I've heard it has to be in MPH not KPH.)
From 2012
> In message <5332849...@davenoise.co.uk>, "Dave Plowman (News)"
> <da...@davenoise.co.uk> writes:
> []
>> Didn't think the speedo was an MOT item in those days. Might have been
>> different for commercial etc vehicles, though.
>>
> For cars, it still isn't. At least, its accuracy isn't; it may have to
> work, FSVO work. (And I've heard it has to be in MPH not KPH.)
Speedometer
The car will fail if a speedometer is not fitted, is incomplete,
inoperative, has a dial glass broken/missing or cannot be illuminated.
However on checking Reg 35 MV(Con and Use)Regs 1986 all that is stated
is that speedometers have to be fitted to certain vehicle. No mention of
accuracy.
Reg 36 outlines that they have to be maintained but again no criteria on
accuracy .
To get Type Approval on Speedo the following test done
4.3. The accuracy of the speedometer equipment shall be tested in
accordance with the following procedure: 4.3.1. the vehicle is equipped
with one of the types of tyre normally fitted ; the test shall be
repeated for each of the types of speedometer specified by the
manufacturer; 4.3.2. the load on the axle driving the speedometer
equipment must correspond to the weight complying with 2.6 of Annex I to
Directive No 70/156/EEC; 4.3.3. the reference temperature at the
speedometer shall be 23 � 5� C; 4.3.4. during each test the pressure of
the tyres shall be the normal running pressure as defined in 2.3; 4.3.5.
the vehicle is tested at the following three speeds : 40, 80 and 120
km/h, or 80 % of the maximum speed specified by the manufacturer, if
this is inferior to 150 km/h; 4.3.6. the test instrumentation used for
measuring the true vehicle speed shall be accurate to � 1.0 %; 4.3.6.1.
the surface of a test track when used be flat and dry, and shall provide
sufficient adhesion. 4.4. The speed indicated must never be less than
the true speed. At the speeds specified for the test in 4.3.5 above and
between these speeds, there shall be the following relationship between
the speed indicated on the dial of the speedometer
EEC Reg 75/443/EEC.
Again no error other than cannot show doing less that true speed.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
Mar 29, 2013, 4:03:52 AM3/29/13
to
In message <dd98l8tm5tj0r1kp8...@4ax.com>, Brian
markings have to be the dominant ones.
Society's premises shall be liable to a fine of one pound. Any animal leading a
blind person shall be deemed to be a cat.
<Br...@2001.bjforster.force9.co.uk> writes:
>On Thu, 28 Mar 2013 02:33:39 +0000, Clive <cl...@yewbank.demon.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <4loOU1ON...@soft255.demon.co.uk>, "J. P. Gilliver
>>(John)" <G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> writes
>>>For cars, it still isn't. At least, its accuracy isn't; it may have to
>>>work, FSVO work. (And I've heard it has to be in MPH not KPH.)
>>All cars in the EU have to be marked in KPH so ours are and British law
>>says we must have a speedometer calibrated in MPH (Construction and Use,
>>I think) so we have every new car dual calibrated
>
>Every new car has had dual markings on the speedometer dials since at
>least the mid-60s - long before membership of the EU, or even the EEC.
Having them isn't the same as having to have them. Also I think the MPH
>On Thu, 28 Mar 2013 02:33:39 +0000, Clive <cl...@yewbank.demon.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <4loOU1ON...@soft255.demon.co.uk>, "J. P. Gilliver
>>(John)" <G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> writes
>>>For cars, it still isn't. At least, its accuracy isn't; it may have to
>>>work, FSVO work. (And I've heard it has to be in MPH not KPH.)
>>All cars in the EU have to be marked in KPH so ours are and British law
>>says we must have a speedometer calibrated in MPH (Construction and Use,
>>I think) so we have every new car dual calibrated
>
>Every new car has had dual markings on the speedometer dials since at
>least the mid-60s - long before membership of the EU, or even the EEC.
markings have to be the dominant ones.
>
>I think it probably has to do with the rise in popularity of
>continental motoring holidays and the tendency of those countries to
>the east and south of the UK to state their speed limits in km/h.
>I think it probably has to do with the rise in popularity of
>continental motoring holidays and the tendency of those countries to
>the east and south of the UK to state their speed limits in km/h.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
Rule 46, Oxford Union Society, London: Any member introducing a dog into the
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
Society's premises shall be liable to a fine of one pound. Any animal leading a
blind person shall be deemed to be a cat.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
Mar 29, 2013, 4:17:33 AM3/29/13
to
In message <RYGdnTpNP8ob-MnM...@bt.com>, MB
odometer considered part of the speedometer?)
(approximately) checking the prototype. (Of the vehicle, not the speedo,
based on what follows.)
>4.3. The accuracy of the speedometer equipment shall be tested in
>accordance with the following procedure: 4.3.1. the vehicle is equipped
>with one of the types of tyre normally fitted ; the test shall be
>repeated for each of the types of speedometer specified by the
>manufacturer; 4.3.2. the load on the axle driving the speedometer
>equipment must correspond to the weight complying with 2.6 of Annex I
>to Directive No 70/156/EEC; 4.3.3. the reference temperature at the
>speedometer shall be 23 � 5� C; 4.3.4. during each test the pressure of
>the tyres shall be the normal running pressure as defined in 2.3;
>4.3.5. the vehicle is tested at the following three speeds : 40, 80 and
>120 km/h, or 80 % of the maximum speed specified by the manufacturer,
>if this is inferior to 150 km/h; 4.3.6. the test instrumentation used
>for measuring the true vehicle speed shall be accurate to � 1.0 %;
>4.3.6.1. the surface of a test track when used be flat and dry, and
>shall provide sufficient adhesion. 4.4. The speed indicated must never
>be less than the true speed. At the speeds specified for the test in
>4.3.5 above and between these speeds, there shall be the following
>relationship between the speed indicated on the dial of the speedometer
>EEC Reg 75/443/EEC.
>Again no error other than cannot show doing less that true speed.
I take it that "no error other than" that is from the EEC reg. you
quoted.
Sounds like these rules were drawn up by two different people (or
committees): one being very careful, about tyre pressures, load, and so
on, all of which sounds like the intention _was_ to specify accuracy;
the second just saying it mustn't under-read (presumably to reduce the
likelihood of a defence against a speeding ticket). I suspect the first
committee were rather cross with the second, after they'd put all that
effort in (-:!
So for type-approval of a vehicle model in the first place, the speedo
must not under-read; and from 2012, the speedo on each car tested must
not be "inoperative", though that suggests there is still no _accuracy_
requirement.
Back to Foyle's war: my immediate thought on seeing a bus in it, with
authentic-looking (to me) adverts on it, was "oh yes, this is ITV, who
can spend lots of money on authenticity, and want us to be aware that
they've done so"; interesting to read that they slipped up on the bus
itself (-:!
<M...@nospam.nospam> writes:
>On 27/03/2013 22:24, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>> In message <5332849...@davenoise.co.uk>, "Dave Plowman (News)"
>> <da...@davenoise.co.uk> writes:
>> []
>>> Didn't think the speedo was an MOT item in those days. Might have been
>>> different for commercial etc vehicles, though.
>>>
>> For cars, it still isn't. At least, its accuracy isn't; it may have to
>> work, FSVO work. (And I've heard it has to be in MPH not KPH.)
>
>
>
>From 2012
>
>Speedometer
>
>The car will fail if a speedometer is not fitted, is incomplete,
>inoperative, has a dial glass broken/missing or cannot be illuminated.
>
Inoperative, though - so as long as the needle moves? (Also, is the
>On 27/03/2013 22:24, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>> In message <5332849...@davenoise.co.uk>, "Dave Plowman (News)"
>> <da...@davenoise.co.uk> writes:
>> []
>>> Didn't think the speedo was an MOT item in those days. Might have been
>>> different for commercial etc vehicles, though.
>>>
>> For cars, it still isn't. At least, its accuracy isn't; it may have to
>> work, FSVO work. (And I've heard it has to be in MPH not KPH.)
>
>
>
>From 2012
>
>Speedometer
>
>The car will fail if a speedometer is not fitted, is incomplete,
>inoperative, has a dial glass broken/missing or cannot be illuminated.
>
odometer considered part of the speedometer?)
>
>
>Found this on speedometer accuracy on the Honest John website
>
>However on checking Reg 35 MV(Con and Use)Regs 1986 all that is stated
>is that speedometers have to be fitted to certain vehicle. No mention
>of accuracy.
>Reg 36 outlines that they have to be maintained but again no criteria
>on accuracy .
>
>To get Type Approval on Speedo the following test done
Type approval isn't the same as testing each one, though; it's
>
>Found this on speedometer accuracy on the Honest John website
>
>However on checking Reg 35 MV(Con and Use)Regs 1986 all that is stated
>is that speedometers have to be fitted to certain vehicle. No mention
>of accuracy.
>Reg 36 outlines that they have to be maintained but again no criteria
>on accuracy .
>
>To get Type Approval on Speedo the following test done
(approximately) checking the prototype. (Of the vehicle, not the speedo,
based on what follows.)
>4.3. The accuracy of the speedometer equipment shall be tested in
>accordance with the following procedure: 4.3.1. the vehicle is equipped
>with one of the types of tyre normally fitted ; the test shall be
>repeated for each of the types of speedometer specified by the
>manufacturer; 4.3.2. the load on the axle driving the speedometer
>equipment must correspond to the weight complying with 2.6 of Annex I
>to Directive No 70/156/EEC; 4.3.3. the reference temperature at the
>speedometer shall be 23 � 5� C; 4.3.4. during each test the pressure of
>the tyres shall be the normal running pressure as defined in 2.3;
>4.3.5. the vehicle is tested at the following three speeds : 40, 80 and
>120 km/h, or 80 % of the maximum speed specified by the manufacturer,
>if this is inferior to 150 km/h; 4.3.6. the test instrumentation used
>for measuring the true vehicle speed shall be accurate to � 1.0 %;
>4.3.6.1. the surface of a test track when used be flat and dry, and
>shall provide sufficient adhesion. 4.4. The speed indicated must never
>be less than the true speed. At the speeds specified for the test in
>4.3.5 above and between these speeds, there shall be the following
>relationship between the speed indicated on the dial of the speedometer
>EEC Reg 75/443/EEC.
>Again no error other than cannot show doing less that true speed.
quoted.
Sounds like these rules were drawn up by two different people (or
committees): one being very careful, about tyre pressures, load, and so
on, all of which sounds like the intention _was_ to specify accuracy;
the second just saying it mustn't under-read (presumably to reduce the
likelihood of a defence against a speeding ticket). I suspect the first
committee were rather cross with the second, after they'd put all that
effort in (-:!
So for type-approval of a vehicle model in the first place, the speedo
must not under-read; and from 2012, the speedo on each car tested must
not be "inoperative", though that suggests there is still no _accuracy_
requirement.
Back to Foyle's war: my immediate thought on seeing a bus in it, with
authentic-looking (to me) adverts on it, was "oh yes, this is ITV, who
can spend lots of money on authenticity, and want us to be aware that
they've done so"; interesting to read that they slipped up on the bus
itself (-:!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
MB
Mar 29, 2013, 5:31:06 AM3/29/13
to
On 29/03/2013 08:03, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>> Every new car has had dual markings on the speedometer dials since at
>> least the mid-60s - long before membership of the EU, or even the EEC.
>
> Having them isn't the same as having to have them. Also I think the MPH
> markings have to be the dominant ones.
The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986
>> Every new car has had dual markings on the speedometer dials since at
>> least the mid-60s - long before membership of the EU, or even the EEC.
>
> Having them isn't the same as having to have them. Also I think the MPH
> markings have to be the dominant ones.
Speedometers35.�(1) Save as provided in paragraphs (2) and (3), every
motor vehicle shall be fitted with a speedometer which, if the vehicle
is first used on or after 1st April 1984, shall be capable of indicating
speed in both miles per hour and kilometres per hour, either
simultaneously or, by the operation of a switch, separately.
newshound
Apr 2, 2013, 10:34:00 AM4/2/13
to
On 25/03/2013 16:36, The Other John wrote:
> At the risk of being thought an anorak - ok I *am* an anorak - I collected
> bus numbers 60-odd years ago - Foyle's War last night was set in 1946
> (after the 1945 opening scene) and in two street scenes a Routemaster bus
> appeared. The first prototype Routemaster was built in 1954 and they went
> into service in '56. Surely the production company could have hired an RT
> type bus, there must be several preserved specimens.
>
> TOJ.
>
Well above average stories, though, and a huge amount of period detail
so I could forgive a few such errors.
> At the risk of being thought an anorak - ok I *am* an anorak - I collected
> bus numbers 60-odd years ago - Foyle's War last night was set in 1946
> (after the 1945 opening scene) and in two street scenes a Routemaster bus
> appeared. The first prototype Routemaster was built in 1954 and they went
> into service in '56. Surely the production company could have hired an RT
> type bus, there must be several preserved specimens.
>
> TOJ.
>
Well above average stories, though, and a huge amount of period detail
so I could forgive a few such errors.
Dave Plowman (News)
Apr 2, 2013, 11:13:22 AM4/2/13
to
In article <515aec57$0$46709$c3e8da3$5245...@news.astraweb.com>,
I found the first two stories not quite up to the previous (high)
standard. But that's not to say I didn't enjoy watching them.
--
*Cleaned by Stevie Wonder, checked by David Blunkett*
standard. But that's not to say I didn't enjoy watching them.
--
*Cleaned by Stevie Wonder, checked by David Blunkett*
NY
Apr 3, 2013, 7:22:29 AM4/3/13
to
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:SBNENkTd...@soft255.demon.co.uk...
>>From 2012
>>
>>Speedometer
>>
>>The car will fail if a speedometer is not fitted, is incomplete,
>>inoperative, has a dial glass broken/missing or cannot be illuminated.
>>
> Inoperative, though - so as long as the needle moves? (Also, is the
> odometer considered part of the speedometer?)
>>
>>
>>Found this on speedometer accuracy on the Honest John website
>>
speedo is the only way for the driver to know whether he's exceeding the
limit on that bit of road. I presume any gauge which relies on a spring with
ever-increasing tension to oppose a force that is proportional to the
quantity being measured can suffer drift if the spring tension rate changes
(eg with temperature or over time).
So any analogue gauge, even if it's driven from pulses as a wheel rotates,
can be inaccurate. If it's a digital display then there's less scope for
error - unless the timing crystal frequency drifts!
My speedo seems to have a systematic error of 5 mph rather than a % error:
by comparison with the GPS in my phone it consistently over-reads by 5 mph
at all speeds between about 20 and 80 mph. For example, if my speedo reads
20, the GPS says I'm doing 15; if it reads 75 I'm doing 70 according to the
GPS etc.
I wonder why they are concerned about the glass being broken - unless it's
because broken glass could stop the needle moving or the crack could impede
your view of the needle/markings.
news:SBNENkTd...@soft255.demon.co.uk...
>>From 2012
>>
>>Speedometer
>>
>>The car will fail if a speedometer is not fitted, is incomplete,
>>inoperative, has a dial glass broken/missing or cannot be illuminated.
>>
> Inoperative, though - so as long as the needle moves? (Also, is the
> odometer considered part of the speedometer?)
>>
>>
>>Found this on speedometer accuracy on the Honest John website
>>
> Sounds like these rules were drawn up by two different people (or
> committees): one being very careful, about tyre pressures, load, and so
> on, all of which sounds like the intention _was_ to specify accuracy; the
> second just saying it mustn't under-read (presumably to reduce the
> likelihood of a defence against a speeding ticket). I suspect the first
> committee were rather cross with the second, after they'd put all that
> effort in (-:!
>
> So for type-approval of a vehicle model in the first place, the speedo
> must not under-read; and from 2012, the speedo on each car tested must not
> be "inoperative", though that suggests there is still no _accuracy_
> requirement.
Yes it's weird that the accuracy *still* isn't checked, given that the
> committees): one being very careful, about tyre pressures, load, and so
> on, all of which sounds like the intention _was_ to specify accuracy; the
> second just saying it mustn't under-read (presumably to reduce the
> likelihood of a defence against a speeding ticket). I suspect the first
> committee were rather cross with the second, after they'd put all that
> effort in (-:!
>
> So for type-approval of a vehicle model in the first place, the speedo
> must not under-read; and from 2012, the speedo on each car tested must not
> be "inoperative", though that suggests there is still no _accuracy_
> requirement.
speedo is the only way for the driver to know whether he's exceeding the
limit on that bit of road. I presume any gauge which relies on a spring with
ever-increasing tension to oppose a force that is proportional to the
quantity being measured can suffer drift if the spring tension rate changes
(eg with temperature or over time).
So any analogue gauge, even if it's driven from pulses as a wheel rotates,
can be inaccurate. If it's a digital display then there's less scope for
error - unless the timing crystal frequency drifts!
My speedo seems to have a systematic error of 5 mph rather than a % error:
by comparison with the GPS in my phone it consistently over-reads by 5 mph
at all speeds between about 20 and 80 mph. For example, if my speedo reads
20, the GPS says I'm doing 15; if it reads 75 I'm doing 70 according to the
GPS etc.
I wonder why they are concerned about the glass being broken - unless it's
because broken glass could stop the needle moving or the crack could impede
your view of the needle/markings.
Dave Plowman (News)
Apr 3, 2013, 9:58:59 AM4/3/13
to
In article <k6Sdnae66pDHjMHM...@brightview.co.uk>,
many of those last rather longer than a car. ;-)
It would be child's play to make a pulse counting speedo which is as
accurate as a needle's width these days - but many makers still make sure
they over-read by the maximum the law allows. Makes for a 'faster' car in
bar room betting terms, I suppose.
--
*If your feet smell and your nose runs, you're built upside down.
NY <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> Yes it's weird that the accuracy *still* isn't checked, given that the
> speedo is the only way for the driver to know whether he's exceeding the
> limit on that bit of road. I presume any gauge which relies on a spring
> with ever-increasing tension to oppose a force that is proportional to
> the quantity being measured can suffer drift if the spring tension rate
> changes (eg with temperature or over time).
Same sort of springs have been used on clocks and watches for ages - and
> Yes it's weird that the accuracy *still* isn't checked, given that the
> speedo is the only way for the driver to know whether he's exceeding the
> limit on that bit of road. I presume any gauge which relies on a spring
> with ever-increasing tension to oppose a force that is proportional to
> the quantity being measured can suffer drift if the spring tension rate
> changes (eg with temperature or over time).
many of those last rather longer than a car. ;-)
It would be child's play to make a pulse counting speedo which is as
accurate as a needle's width these days - but many makers still make sure
they over-read by the maximum the law allows. Makes for a 'faster' car in
bar room betting terms, I suppose.
--
*If your feet smell and your nose runs, you're built upside down.
Andy Champ
Apr 3, 2013, 12:38:35 PM4/3/13
to
On 03/04/2013 14:58, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> It would be child's play to make a pulse counting speedo which is as
> accurate as a needle's width these days - but many makers still make sure
> they over-read by the maximum the law allows. Makes for a 'faster' car in
> bar room betting terms, I suppose.
It's all win for them. If you think your car is going faster than it is
> It would be child's play to make a pulse counting speedo which is as
> accurate as a needle's width these days - but many makers still make sure
> they over-read by the maximum the law allows. Makes for a 'faster' car in
> bar room betting terms, I suppose.
you'll be getting better fuel economy and acceleration figures than are
real.
Andy
Dave Plowman (News)
Apr 3, 2013, 1:07:14 PM4/3/13
to
In article <b6udnWuIvaCUxsHM...@eclipse.net.uk>,
Yup - if the odometer has the same error. It will also need servicing
earlier. ;-)
--
*A hangover is the wrath of grapes.
earlier. ;-)
--
*A hangover is the wrath of grapes.
Bill
Apr 8, 2013, 7:45:51 PM4/8/13
to
In message <515aec57$0$46709$c3e8da3$5245...@news.astraweb.com>,
newshound <news...@fairadsl.co.uk> writes
I have a feeling that there was another slight error in the episode I
have just watched, "Sunflower".
In a shot of the access stairs of a block of flats I am 99% sure that
there was a vandal proof fixed dome CCTV camera mounted on the wall.
Yes I know how difficult it is not to get something modern in shot,
especially outdoors, at least I've not spotted any UHF TV aerials!
>
Overall a darn good series though.
--
Bill
( A different one )
newshound <news...@fairadsl.co.uk> writes
have just watched, "Sunflower".
In a shot of the access stairs of a block of flats I am 99% sure that
there was a vandal proof fixed dome CCTV camera mounted on the wall.
Yes I know how difficult it is not to get something modern in shot,
especially outdoors, at least I've not spotted any UHF TV aerials!
>
Overall a darn good series though.
--
Bill
( A different one )
Alan White
Apr 9, 2013, 3:42:35 AM4/9/13
to
On Tue, 9 Apr 2013 00:45:51 +0100, Bill <Bi...@birchnet.demon.co.uk>
wrote:
>Yes I know how difficult it is not to get something modern in shot,
>especially outdoors, at least I've not spotted any UHF TV aerials!
The Auster aircraft at the end with military markings and a civil
registration.
>Overall a darn good series though.
Particularly 'Sunflower'. A decent plot and some superb acting.
--
Alan White
Mozilla Firefox and Forte Agent.
By Loch Long, twenty-eight miles NW of Glasgow, Scotland.
Webcam and weather:- http://windycroft.co.uk/weather
wrote:
>Yes I know how difficult it is not to get something modern in shot,
>especially outdoors, at least I've not spotted any UHF TV aerials!
registration.
>Overall a darn good series though.
--
Alan White
Mozilla Firefox and Forte Agent.
By Loch Long, twenty-eight miles NW of Glasgow, Scotland.
Webcam and weather:- http://windycroft.co.uk/weather
Andy Champ
Apr 9, 2013, 6:07:25 AM4/9/13
to
On 09/04/2013 08:42, Alan White wrote:
> The Auster aircraft at the end with military markings and a civil
> registration.
No reason why not. My grandfather had an Auster just after the war. If
> The Auster aircraft at the end with military markings and a civil
> registration.
someone had bought one military surplus why would they bother to repaint it?
Andy
Andy Champ
Apr 9, 2013, 3:28:04 PM4/9/13
to
On 09/04/2013 11:07, Andy Champ wrote:
> No reason why not. My grandfather had an Auster just after the war. If
> someone had bought one military surplus why would they bother to repaint
> it?
OK, now I've seen the episode - it's in military service too. I withdraw
> No reason why not. My grandfather had an Auster just after the war. If
> someone had bought one military surplus why would they bother to repaint
> it?
my previous remarks.
Andy
Alan White
Apr 9, 2013, 5:18:40 PM4/9/13
to
On Tue, 09 Apr 2013 20:28:04 +0100, Andy Champ <no....@nospam.invalid>
wrote:
>OK, now I've seen the episode - it's in military service too. I withdraw
>my previous remarks.
Well, I wasn't going to say anything... :-)
wrote:
>OK, now I've seen the episode - it's in military service too. I withdraw
>my previous remarks.
clockin...@gmail.com
Nov 9, 2013, 8:28:46 PM11/9/13
to
Hello, I went looking for Foyle's War errors/fails - specifically in the final episode "Sunflower". I'm impressed as heck that the bus type/style from the era was known to point out their misuse! More directly /easily spotted, however, especially for an American, is the shot of the front of the building with the American flag, when they were inside talking to the Americans about their "pet nazi". They used a 50 star flag, which came into use in 1959, as opposed to the 48 star flag used 1912-1959, and so definitely 48 stars would be correct for Foyle's War! Easily spotted for us, as 48 stars has straight and even lay-out of 6 by 8, versus the 6-5-6-5-6-5-6-5-6 pattern of today. Thanks for letting me share and vent!
NY
Nov 10, 2013, 4:25:40 AM11/10/13
to
<clockin...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:65c6d6d5-f447-4deb...@googlegroups.com...
Yes that's mentioned as a goof in the entry on IMDB
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2767682/goofs. As a Brit, I might have made the
same mistake with the flag, but if I'd given it a bit more thought I might
have said to myself "Hang on, when did Alaska and Hawaii join the US - would
there perhaps have been fewer stars in the wartime version?". Or maybe I'd
have assumed (very bad to assume!) that these states had joined before the
war. People in props departments who "dress" film sets should have known to
check.
news:65c6d6d5-f447-4deb...@googlegroups.com...
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2767682/goofs. As a Brit, I might have made the
same mistake with the flag, but if I'd given it a bit more thought I might
have said to myself "Hang on, when did Alaska and Hawaii join the US - would
there perhaps have been fewer stars in the wartime version?". Or maybe I'd
have assumed (very bad to assume!) that these states had joined before the
war. People in props departments who "dress" film sets should have known to
check.
Brian Gaff
Nov 10, 2013, 4:43:07 AM11/10/13
to
When was that made? I wonder if it might be possible to alter it with cgi
nowadays for the reprint so to speak.
Brian
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nowadays for the reprint so to speak.
Brian
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Dave Plowman (News)
Nov 10, 2013, 7:45:14 AM11/10/13
to
In article <65c6d6d5-f447-4deb...@googlegroups.com>,
Simply look at most of the vehicles they use. All have twin tailights
which wasn't required until after WW2 - and was one of the few bits of
retrospective regs. Most cars before that had only a single tail light.
--
*Why does the sun lighten our hair, but darken our skin?
which wasn't required until after WW2 - and was one of the few bits of
retrospective regs. Most cars before that had only a single tail light.
--
*Why does the sun lighten our hair, but darken our skin?
whale...@gmail.com
Nov 27, 2019, 8:19:01 PM11/27/19
to
On Monday, March 25, 2013 at 12:36:58 PM UTC-4, The Other John wrote:
> At the risk of being thought an anorak - ok I *am* an anorak - I collected
> bus numbers 60-odd years ago - Foyle's War last night was set in 1946
> (after the 1945 opening scene) and in two street scenes a Routemaster bus
> appeared. The first prototype Routemaster was built in 1954 and they went
> into service in '56. Surely the production company could have hired an RT
> type bus, there must be several preserved specimens.
>
> TOJ.
My dad was stationed in London 51-54, By Law any car parking on the street needed a side-lamp that stayed on all night. The Fog was so bad it was the only way anyone could drive down the street without running into parked cars.
> At the risk of being thought an anorak - ok I *am* an anorak - I collected
> bus numbers 60-odd years ago - Foyle's War last night was set in 1946
> (after the 1945 opening scene) and in two street scenes a Routemaster bus
> appeared. The first prototype Routemaster was built in 1954 and they went
> into service in '56. Surely the production company could have hired an RT
> type bus, there must be several preserved specimens.
>
> TOJ.
Woody
Nov 28, 2019, 3:02:39 AM11/28/19
to
comments section in the Culture TV (etc) supplement. Although it has now
been terminated, Routemaster Moments went on for at least a year.
It all started - if anyone remembers - with a white van moving across
the back of one of the scenes in Ben Hur!
--
Woody
harrogate three at ntlworld dot com
Brian Gaff (Sofa 2)
Nov 28, 2019, 3:37:45 AM11/28/19
to
So what started this 2013 thread back up again after all these years.
Brian
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"Woody" <harro...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
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Brian
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charles
Nov 28, 2019, 3:44:20 AM11/28/19
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In article <qrnuur$dr6$1...@dont-email.me>,
an aircraft contrail at the battle of Bosworth (Richard III). The BBC tv
Series Film xx used to feature such an event on areguar basis.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Series Film xx used to feature such an event on areguar basis.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
MB
Nov 28, 2019, 3:50:46 AM11/28/19
to
On 28/11/2019 08:37, Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) wrote:
> So what started this 2013 thread back up again after all these years.
Someone does a search which searches everywhere, I have found things and
> So what started this 2013 thread back up again after all these years.
not noticed it was an old post. Most people have also been caught out.
One day someone will find an original post by Shakespeare in the USENET
archives.
Brian Gaff (Sofa 2)
Nov 28, 2019, 11:03:59 AM11/28/19
to
No unlikely, he will have been deleted for copyright reasons.
Brian
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Bill Wright
Nov 28, 2019, 2:24:35 PM11/28/19
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http://www.wrightsaerials.tv/ymbj/images/pepys1.jpg
http://www.wrightsaerials.tv/ymbj/images/pepys2.jpg
Bill
J. P. Gilliver (John)
Nov 28, 2019, 9:13:40 PM11/28/19
to
In message <qrp6tg$1jls$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Bill Wright
A magnififent effort. Muft have taken aegess! Quality Bill-work.
about being more right over time and fixing what it got wrong.
- Scott Adams, 2015-2-2
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
Science isn't about being right every time, or even most of the time. It is
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
about being more right over time and fixing what it got wrong.
- Scott Adams, 2015-2-2
Bill Wright
Nov 28, 2019, 9:35:37 PM11/28/19
to
On 29/11/2019 02:12, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> In message <qrp6tg$1jls$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Bill Wright
> <wrights...@f2s.com> writes:
>> On 28/11/2019 08:50, MB wrote:
>>> On 28/11/2019 08:37, Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) wrote:
>>>> So what started this 2013 thread back up again after all these years.
>>> Someone does a search which searches everywhere, I have found things
>>> and not noticed it was an old post. Most people have also been
>>> caught out.
>>> One day someone will find an original post by Shakespeare in the
>>> USENET archives.
>>>
>>
>> I found a seventeenth century one
>> http://www.wrightsaerials.tv/ymbj/images/pepys1.jpg
>> http://www.wrightsaerials.tv/ymbj/images/pepys2.jpg
>>
>> Bill
>
> A magnififent effort. Muft have taken aegess! Quality Bill-work.
Thank you.
> In message <qrp6tg$1jls$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Bill Wright
> <wrights...@f2s.com> writes:
>> On 28/11/2019 08:50, MB wrote:
>>> On 28/11/2019 08:37, Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) wrote:
>>>> So what started this 2013 thread back up again after all these years.
>>> Someone does a search which searches everywhere, I have found things
>>> and not noticed it was an old post. Most people have also been
>>> caught out.
>>> One day someone will find an original post by Shakespeare in the
>>> USENET archives.
>>>
>>
>> I found a seventeenth century one
>> http://www.wrightsaerials.tv/ymbj/images/pepys1.jpg
>> http://www.wrightsaerials.tv/ymbj/images/pepys2.jpg
>>
>> Bill
>
> A magnififent effort. Muft have taken aegess! Quality Bill-work.
Bill
Brian Gaff (Sofa 2)
Nov 29, 2019, 3:26:15 AM11/29/19
to
As I recall those involved in road maintenance would regularly right in to a
broadcaster telling them that drain covers or types of curbs, flag stones
and road surfaces were incorrect in period type shows. Even I remember one
road being shown from the 1950s supposedly which used to have trolley
busses in that year, being devoid of the poles and wires. Somewhere in
Clapham Junction area, I think.
Brian
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"charles" <cha...@candehope.me.uk> wrote in message
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broadcaster telling them that drain covers or types of curbs, flag stones
and road surfaces were incorrect in period type shows. Even I remember one
road being shown from the 1950s supposedly which used to have trolley
busses in that year, being devoid of the poles and wires. Somewhere in
Clapham Junction area, I think.
Brian
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Brian Gaff (Sofa 2)
Nov 29, 2019, 3:28:07 AM11/29/19
to
I do also remember that back in the 50s in Leeds there were still trams,
very uncomfortable and noisy, but whenever they try to portray Leeds of the
period, there are none.
I guess a lot of this might actually get fixed today with modern CGI
techniques.
very uncomfortable and noisy, but whenever they try to portray Leeds of the
period, there are none.
I guess a lot of this might actually get fixed today with modern CGI
techniques.
Brian
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Terry Casey
Nov 30, 2019, 6:29:57 AM11/30/19
to
In article <fa9721a5-ef72-4be7-9c17-
192c0f...@googlegroups.com>, whale...@gmail.com says...
And car batteries weren't up to much in the cold in those days
so there were lots of little plug-in lights around that had a
low wattage bulb with both red and clear lenses that clipped
onto the top of the window.
I was puzzled that I diudn't remember the original post -
until I spotted the date!
There were, and still are, a large number of preserved RTs
around, some of them still licenced for fare paying passenger
service today.
--
Terry
192c0f...@googlegroups.com>, whale...@gmail.com says...
so there were lots of little plug-in lights around that had a
low wattage bulb with both red and clear lenses that clipped
onto the top of the window.
I was puzzled that I diudn't remember the original post -
until I spotted the date!
There were, and still are, a large number of preserved RTs
around, some of them still licenced for fare paying passenger
service today.
--
Terry
Terry Casey
Nov 30, 2019, 6:51:48 AM11/30/19
to
In article <5819eadb...@candehope.me.uk>,
cha...@candehope.me.uk says...
I can't remember what the US series was called many years ago
but one programme was set in London. A red bus which was never
a London bus repeatedly drove past the end of a road in which
a lot of the action took place.
Then the goodies chased the baddies down to the South Coast -
Bournemouth, from memory.
This chase took place on dirt track roads!
I know that they have some very warped ideas in the US about
this country but surely a little research should have been
carried out first?
--
Terry
cha...@candehope.me.uk says...
but one programme was set in London. A red bus which was never
a London bus repeatedly drove past the end of a road in which
a lot of the action took place.
Then the goodies chased the baddies down to the South Coast -
Bournemouth, from memory.
This chase took place on dirt track roads!
I know that they have some very warped ideas in the US about
this country but surely a little research should have been
carried out first?
--
Terry
MB
Nov 30, 2019, 2:14:28 PM11/30/19
to
On 28/11/2019 01:19, whale...@gmail.com wrote:
> My dad was stationed in London 51-54, By Law any car parking on the street needed a side-lamp that stayed on all night. The Fog was so bad it was the only way anyone could drive down the street without running into parked cars.
Not sure what the law was on parking lights but they were widely used,
> My dad was stationed in London 51-54, By Law any car parking on the street needed a side-lamp that stayed on all night. The Fog was so bad it was the only way anyone could drive down the street without running into parked cars.
will dig out my old copy of C&U later.
Position lights on cars were pathetic and people would drive on them as
sidelights. Land Rovers had small bulbs, no bigger than a pocket torch
and the plastic cover was often almost opaque!
A lot of it was the fault of the Prince of Darkness who were used by
most British car manufacturers.
Bill Wright
Nov 30, 2019, 9:07:07 PM11/30/19
to
On 30/11/2019 19:14, MB wrote:
> On 28/11/2019 01:19, whale...@gmail.com wrote:
>> My dad was stationed in London 51-54, By Law any car parking on the
>> street needed a side-lamp that stayed on all night. The Fog was so bad
>> it was the only way anyone could drive down the street without running
>> into parked cars.
>
> Not sure what the law was on parking lights but they were widely used,
> will dig out my old copy of C&U later.
>
Normal practice on our estate was to steal a paraffin lamp from any
> On 28/11/2019 01:19, whale...@gmail.com wrote:
>> My dad was stationed in London 51-54, By Law any car parking on the
>> street needed a side-lamp that stayed on all night. The Fog was so bad
>> it was the only way anyone could drive down the street without running
>> into parked cars.
>
> Not sure what the law was on parking lights but they were widely used,
> will dig out my old copy of C&U later.
>
roadworks we came across and hang it from the vehicle's door handle.
No-one much used the little battery lights because starting was an
uncertain procedure in winter even without any overnight battery drain.
At one stage the council painted all their lamps yellow with a black
stripe, so we had to paint over it in red.
From time to time the bobbies used to drive round the estates in the
evenings and if your car didn't have a light they'd knock on your door
and issue a warning. There were only two four-wheeled vehicles on our
street in the 1950s; my dad's van and Mr Kirkham the cobbler's funny old
car with running boards.
Incidentally on our council estate we regarded ourselves as middle
class. The private estate nearby was upper class and the pit estate
across the main road was lower class.
Bill
MB
Dec 1, 2019, 6:32:16 AM12/1/19
to
On 01/12/2019 02:07, Bill Wright wrote:
> Normal practice on our estate was to steal a paraffin lamp from any
> roadworks we came across and hang it from the vehicle's door handle.
> No-one much used the little battery lights because starting was an
> uncertain procedure in winter even without any overnight battery drain.
> At one stage the council painted all their lamps yellow with a black
> stripe, so we had to paint over it in red.
> From time to time the bobbies used to drive round the estates in the
> evenings and if your car didn't have a light they'd knock on your door
> and issue a warning. There were only two four-wheeled vehicles on our
> street in the 1950s; my dad's van and Mr Kirkham the cobbler's funny old
> car with running boards.
> Incidentally on our council estate we regarded ourselves as middle
> class. The private estate nearby was upper class and the pit estate
> across the main road was lower class.
As I mentioned was the British cars electrics from the Prince of
> Normal practice on our estate was to steal a paraffin lamp from any
> roadworks we came across and hang it from the vehicle's door handle.
> No-one much used the little battery lights because starting was an
> uncertain procedure in winter even without any overnight battery drain.
> At one stage the council painted all their lamps yellow with a black
> stripe, so we had to paint over it in red.
> From time to time the bobbies used to drive round the estates in the
> evenings and if your car didn't have a light they'd knock on your door
> and issue a warning. There were only two four-wheeled vehicles on our
> street in the 1950s; my dad's van and Mr Kirkham the cobbler's funny old
> car with running boards.
> Incidentally on our council estate we regarded ourselves as middle
> class. The private estate nearby was upper class and the pit estate
> across the main road was lower class.
Darkness. I can remember when I got my first Renault, just a Renault 6
but it had an alternator and laminated windscreen. The Cibie headlights
had a well defined beam pattern, you did not need fog lights because the
top of the beam cut off completely. British cars tended to have very
vague edges to their headlight dip and beam.
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