BBC 4 HD and Cbeebies HD

[Mark Carver]

It looks to me as if BBC 4 HD and CBeebies HD have finally launched on
PSB 3 ?

[Dave Hill]

Mark Carver <mark....@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> It looks to me as if BBC 4 HD and CBeebies HD have finally launched on
> PSB 3 ?

https://rxtvinfo.com/2022/bbc-four-hd-and-cbeebies-hd-restored-on-freeview

Dave

--
This is a sig-free zone!

[NY]

On 06/09/2022 16:35, Dave Hill wrote:
> Mark Carver <mark....@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> It looks to me as if BBC 4 HD and CBeebies HD have finally launched on
>> PSB 3 ?
>
> https://rxtvinfo.com/2022/bbc-four-hd-and-cbeebies-hd-restored-on-freeview

When I saw the thread title, I thought for a moment it was going to be
an announcement that BBC had decided to abandon the broadcast of BBC
Four HD and CBeebies HD on COM3.

But they've done it. Not quite as seamless a handover from COM7 to PSB3
as it should have been and as they'd have liked, but they've got there.
Well done to the engineers for getting it going. I presume most of the
delay was in obtaining the equipment, and the actual configuration took
the expected length of time that it would have done if they'd had the
equipment when they anticipated.

Maybe the news about it should have been handled better: if they'd said
before the closure "we hoped to transfer BBC Four seamlessly from COM7
to PSB3 but we will not be able to do that because equipment has not yet
arrived" and then kept people informed about the progress with expected
in-service date (even if it slips) rather than a fairly meaningless "soon".

[Andy Burns]

Mark Carver wrote:

> It looks to me as if BBC 4 HD and CBeebies HD have finally launched on PSB 3 ?

Yes a re-scan got them for me.

Is it new that there's no active video behind the "retune to 101 for local news"
banner? I thought they had mountain rescue, sheepdogs and jiving pensioners etc?

[Mark Carver]

Yes, it's been like since the BBC 1 rebrand a few months ago

[Mark Carver]

On 06/09/2022 18:38, Andy Burns wrote:

> Mark Carver wrote:
>
>> It looks to me as if BBC 4 HD and CBeebies HD have finally launched
>> on PSB 3 ?
>
> Yes a re-scan got them for me.
>

Although oddly running a manual scan just on the PSB 3 mux, found both
the channels, but stuck them at 800 and 801. I had (back on June 30th)
deleted positions 106 and 205, so it's odd they didn't end up on there.
I'm sure a reset and full scan would have worked. In any case I've
manually moved BBC 4 HD to 9. And now we're grandparents we may well
find ourselves punching in 205 !

[Robin]

On 06/09/2022 15:43, Mark Carver wrote:
> It looks to me as if BBC 4 HD and CBeebies HD have finally launched on
> PSB 3 ?

Thanks for the alert. Both OK here from CP.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

[MB]

Amazing, we are getting BBC 4 HD on Freeview Lite!

[williamwright]

On 06/09/2022 18:37, NY wrote:
> I presume most of the delay was in obtaining the equipment, and the
> actual configuration took the expected length of time that it would have
> done if they'd had the equipment when they anticipated.

You have a curious habit of speculating. You presume quite often!

Bill

[williamwright]

On 06/09/2022 18:52, Mark Carver wrote:
> And now we're grandparents we may well find ourselves punching in 205 !

Television is the opium of the under-fives!

Bill

[Mark Carver]

Oh, I agree. We'll expose him very very sparingly.

I stumbled across a new version of The Clangers on there last night,
what a revelation !

[Jeff Layman]

We were looking after the grandchildren a few years ago and were very
grateful indeed for Cbeebies! But, to be fair, the real revelation was
Peppa Pig, which was obviously written with adults in mind too. At one
time I think I had almost 150 episodes recorded.

--

Jeff

[Woody]

On Tue 06/09/2022 22:19, MB wrote:
> Amazing, we are getting BBC 4 HD on Freeview Lite!
>
>
>

Why? PSB3 is part of all Freeview Lite stations.

And note that PSB3 is now the ONLY HD mux on DTTV with the closure of Com7.

[Woody]

We all forget that Magic Roundabout was written for two ages -
youngsters and adults!

[Mark Carver]

Our sons 20 or so years ago managed to persuade my in-laws to let them
stay up to watch South Park !

[charles]

In article <tf9htl$69go$2...@dont-email.me>,

I didn't forget, indeed, I nearly mentioned it.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

[NY]

"charles" <cha...@candehope.me.uk> wrote in message
news:5a241a94...@candehope.me.uk...
> In article <tf9htl$69go$2...@dont-email.me>,

>
>> We all forget that Magic Roundabout was written for two ages -
>> youngsters and adults!
>
> I didn't forget, indeed, I nearly mentioned it.

And the original Serge Danot French version was apparently written as a
political satire. Eric Thompson worked out completely new stories and
dialogue, based on what was happening on-screen.

[Brian Gaff]

On the other hand they probably did not have a shilling for the meter.
Brian

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"NY" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:Utmcna8qJI78GIr-...@brightview.co.uk...

[Brian Gaff]

I had hoped we might have had fewer shopping channels after the switch, and
maybe the god channel could go as well. After all most tvs have smart
functions, many people have the internet and all of the current offerings
plus many more are on web sites or youtube.

What amazed me the other day was a 'cheap' illuminated magnifier being
offered, but then they say please ring the number at the bottom of your
screens. Erm, yes well anyone else see the lack of logic here?

Brian

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"Woody" <harro...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
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[MB]

On 07/09/2022 08:13, Jeff Layman wrote:
> We were looking after the grandchildren a few years ago and were very
> grateful indeed for Cbeebies! But, to be fair, the real revelation was
> Peppa Pig, which was obviously written with adults in mind too. At one
> time I think I had almost 150 episodes recorded.

I ewas reading this morning that Peppa Pig has now gone woke.

"'I live with my mummy and my other mummy': Peppa Pig introduces
classmate character who is being brought up by same-sex parents "

[Java Jive]

On 07/09/2022 10:00, Brian Gaff wrote:
>
> What amazed me the other day was a 'cheap' illuminated magnifier being
> offered, but then they say please ring the number at the bottom of your
> screens. Erm, yes well anyone else see the lack of logic here?
> Brian

LOL! That's like the famous Tomorrow's World episode of the 1980s when
Judith Chalmers (I think was her name) was introducing Japanese high
definition TVs. Indicating the picture displayed to UK viewers on their
standard definition TVs, she began: "As you can see ..."

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

[Mark Carver]

On 07/09/2022 13:35, Java Jive wrote:
> On 07/09/2022 10:00, Brian Gaff wrote:
>>
>>   What amazed me the other day  was a  'cheap' illuminated magnifier 
>> being
>> offered, but then they say please ring the number at the bottom of your
>> screens. Erm, yes well anyone else see the lack of logic here?
>>   Brian
>
> LOL!  That's like the famous Tomorrow's World episode of the 1980s
> when Judith Chalmers (I think was her name) was introducing Japanese
> high definition TVs.  Indicating the picture displayed to UK viewers
> on their standard definition TVs, she began: "As you can see ..."
>

It was Judith Hann.
Judith Chalmers was on Thames TV's Wish You Were Here, and consequently
had a permanent orange glow.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judith_Hann

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judith_Chalmers

[Java Jive]

On 07/09/2022 14:03, Mark Carver wrote:
>
> On 07/09/2022 13:35, Java Jive wrote:
>>
>> On 07/09/2022 10:00, Brian Gaff wrote:
>>>
>>>   What amazed me the other day  was a  'cheap' illuminated magnifier
>>> being
>>> offered, but then they say please ring the number at the bottom of your
>>> screens. Erm, yes well anyone else see the lack of logic here?
>>>   Brian
>>
>> LOL!  That's like the famous Tomorrow's World episode of the 1980s
>> when Judith Chalmers (I think was her name) was introducing Japanese
>> high definition TVs.  Indicating the picture displayed to UK viewers
>> on their standard definition TVs, she began: "As you can see ..."
>>
> It was Judith Hann.
> Judith Chalmers was on Thames TV's Wish You Were Here, and consequently
> had a permanent orange glow.

LOL!

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judith_Hann
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judith_Chalmers

Thanks for the correction.

[Max Demian]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/62818670
"Meet Thomas the Tank Engine's first autistic character"

"Bruno the Brake Car"

--
Max Demian

[williamwright]

On 07/09/2022 07:43, Mark Carver wrote:

> Oh, I agree. We'll expose him very very sparingly.

No, the little blighter has to be hardened so he can survive in the
modern world. He needs a screen in front of him at all times!

Bill

[Mark Carver]

He giggles every-time we ask Alexa to do something.

[Brian Gaff]

Yes not enough vetting of scripts.
I also do wonder about adverts sometimes. Orcam keep running there
commercial for Orcam Read, and though its very clever technically, it is
both ridiculously expensive and has a short battery life. We have two at our
charity and nobody will even take them off our hands.

Brian

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"Java Jive" <ja...@evij.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:tfa6e9$85h4$1...@dont-email.me...

[Jim Lesurf]

In article
<1845935966.684171278.997305.n...@news.individual.net>,

Dave Hill <nos...@hillcroft.org.uk.invalid> wrote:
> Mark Carver <mark....@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > It looks to me as if BBC 4 HD and CBeebies HD have finally launched on
> > PSB 3 ?

> https://rxtvinfo.com/2022/bbc-four-hd-and-cbeebies-hd-restored-on-freeview

As yet I've not actually seen BBC Four HD reappear here, and my Tv hasn't
promted a re-scan as it usually does when a channel comes/goes/moves. The
106 here mentions BBC Four (no HD). Hasn't shown the 'back soon' either. So
this may be 'in transit' in some way or my TV is confused by the deckchair
suffling that's been going on.

I'll check again today. Hope it reappears before the LNOTP!

Jim

--
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

[NY]

On 08/09/2022 09:47, Jim Lesurf wrote:
> In article
> <1845935966.684171278.997305.n...@news.individual.net>,
> Dave Hill <nos...@hillcroft.org.uk.invalid> wrote:
>> Mark Carver <mark....@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> It looks to me as if BBC 4 HD and CBeebies HD have finally launched on
>>> PSB 3 ?
>
>> https://rxtvinfo.com/2022/bbc-four-hd-and-cbeebies-hd-restored-on-freeview
>
> As yet I've not actually seen BBC Four HD reappear here, and my Tv hasn't
> promted a re-scan as it usually does when a channel comes/goes/moves. The
> 106 here mentions BBC Four (no HD). Hasn't shown the 'back soon' either. So
> this may be 'in transit' in some way or my TV is confused by the deckchair
> suffling that's been going on.
>
> I'll check again today. Hope it reappears before the LNOTP!

I wonder if you need to get your TV to do an explicit scan. As far as I
can tell, when BBC Four HD first appeared in the list of channels on
PSB3, just after COM7 closed down, the entry quoted the stream IDs for
the video, audio and subtitles, but there was no data being transmitted
on those IDs. Now there is data. So I'd expect the TV *not* to need a
rescan - but I could be wrong. Maybe the IDs have changed from the ones
that were initially quoted when BBC Four HD was first added to the PSB3
list.

Would all transmitters (main and relay) have started to transmit BBC
Four HD at the same time a few days ago, or could there be a
transitional phase when the main transmitters have the video etc streams
but the Freeview Lite transmitters don't yet?

[MB]

On 08/09/2022 09:47, Jim Lesurf wrote:

> As yet I've not actually seen BBC Four HD reappear here, and my Tv hasn't
> promted a re-scan as it usually does when a channel comes/goes/moves. The
> 106 here mentions BBC Four (no HD). Hasn't shown the 'back soon' either. So
> this may be 'in transit' in some way or my TV is confused by the deckchair
> suffling that's been going on.

The same with mine, I wonder if it was because they have had a caption
up and that was on BBC 4 HD channel number so perhaps the TV sets have
not noticed a change?

[Andy Burns]

Woody wrote:

> PSB3 is now the ONLY HD mux on DTTV with the closure of Com7.

I wondered how the statmuxers would cope with identical versions the news
special on BBC1/BBC2/BBC3 and BBC4, but the latter two have banners saying tune
to BBC1 for a major news story.

[Max Demian]

I don't know how "statmuxing" works, but I would have thought if it was
clever it could see that the channels are showing the same stuff and
just transmit one channel and duplicate it for the others.

--
Max Demian

[NY]

"Max Demian" <max_d...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:X6GdnemiZqtUo4b-...@brightview.co.uk...

Is there a mechanism in the DVB standard to do that. When a TV is
"tuned"/scanned, it creates its own local list of channels (name and LCN)
with a corresponding list of stream IDs: BBC One video, BBC One main sound,
BBC One AD sound, BBC Two video etc. It uses those in preference to the
versions of those tables which are repeated periodically (how often?) in the
broadcast stream.

In theory, a mux could contain an instruction which said "use the broadcast
version rather than the local stored version" and then it could transmit a
single video stream that was shared by several channels, so no matter
whether the TV was tuned to BBC One or BBC Two they got exactly the same
data (not two separate copies of the same data) which would reduce the
bandwidth requirements considerable and would allow greater bandwidth to be
devoted to the one shared copy.

But I doubt very much whether this is possible in practice. Is is a
situation that was thought sufficiently likely that the standard caters for
it?

I have seen a few duplicate channels sharing the same PID on *satellite*.
For example 10773H has an channel ETV1 which shares video and audio PIDs
with those for BBC One London. There are a few other ETV<n> channels which
share PIDs with other channels on the same mux.

[Jim Lesurf]

In article <uYydnfsy78GuToT-...@brightview.co.uk>, NY

<m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> > As yet I've not actually seen BBC Four HD reappear here, and my Tv
> > hasn't promted a re-scan as it usually does when a channel
> > comes/goes/moves. The 106 here mentions BBC Four (no HD).

> > Hasn't shown the 'back soon' either. So this may be 'in transit' in
> > some way or my TV is confused by the deckchair suffling that's been
> > going on.
> >

> > I'll check again today. Hope it reappears before the LNOTP!

> I wonder if you need to get your TV to do an explicit scan.

No HD last night. So I forced a scan this morning. Know more this evening.
However 'events' may mean no LNOTP anyway. Or at least one that is far from
the norm given the sad event.

[Paul Ratcliffe]

On Thu, 8 Sep 2022 12:34:11 +0100, NY <m...@privacy.net> wrote:

> Maybe the IDs have changed from the ones that were initially quoted when
> BBC Four HD was first added to the PSB3 list.

They haven't.

> Would all transmitters (main and relay) have started to transmit BBC
> Four HD at the same time a few days ago, or could there be a
> transitional phase when the main transmitters have the video etc streams
> but the Freeview Lite transmitters don't yet?

The definition of a relay is one that re-transmits the main.
The conclusion is obvious.

[NY]

"Paul Ratcliffe" <ab...@orac12.clara34.co56.uk78> wrote in message
news:slrnthpt5p...@news.pr.network...

> On Thu, 8 Sep 2022 12:34:11 +0100, NY <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> Maybe the IDs have changed from the ones that were initially quoted when
>> BBC Four HD was first added to the PSB3 list.
>
> They haven't.

OK. So if people had retuned when PSB3 first included BBC Four in the header
tables, they should just be able to receive that channel when its video and
audio streams started to be broadcast recently.

>> Would all transmitters (main and relay) have started to transmit BBC
>> Four HD at the same time a few days ago, or could there be a
>> transitional phase when the main transmitters have the video etc streams
>> but the Freeview Lite transmitters don't yet?
>
> The definition of a relay is one that re-transmits the main.
> The conclusion is obvious.

Ah, I wasn't sure whether there were any Freeview Lite transmitters that
didn't receive off-air from a main transmitter, and which might in theory
not have got the BBC Four streams when the main transmitter started.
Clutching at straws to think of a reason for the problem that people were
experiencing.

[Mark Carver]

On 09/09/2022 10:09, Jim Lesurf wrote:
>
> No HD last night. So I forced a scan this morning. Know more this evening.
>

If you still haven't got it, you may find it at Ch 800. That's where I
found it on one of our tellies where I ran a manual scan on for PSB 3 to
add it.

I was able to manually re-map it to Ch 9 (to replace BBC 4 SD). If you
can't do that, you might need to reset and run a brand new full scan

[Paul Ratcliffe]

On Sat, 10 Sep 2022 23:20:55 +0100, NY <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote:

>>> Maybe the IDs have changed from the ones that were initially quoted when
>>> BBC Four HD was first added to the PSB3 list.
>>
>> They haven't.
>
> OK. So if people had retuned when PSB3 first included BBC Four in the header
> tables, they should just be able to receive that channel when its video and
> audio streams started to be broadcast recently.

Yep. That's what I did and it just worked when the data started arriving
last week.

>>> Would all transmitters (main and relay) have started to transmit BBC
>>> Four HD at the same time a few days ago, or could there be a
>>> transitional phase when the main transmitters have the video etc streams
>>> but the Freeview Lite transmitters don't yet?
>>
>> The definition of a relay is one that re-transmits the main.
>> The conclusion is obvious.
>
> Ah, I wasn't sure whether there were any Freeview Lite transmitters that
> didn't receive off-air from a main transmitter, and which might in theory
> not have got the BBC Four streams when the main transmitter started.

Maybe there are. I expect Mark knows. I don't.
Freeview Lite does not necessarily mean relay though.

> Clutching at straws to think of a reason for the problem that people were
> experiencing.

I can't explain it either.

[Mark Carver]

There are a smattering of three mux relays that are fibre fed.

Countisbury (that serves Lynton and Lynmouth) is a good example.

PSB 1 and 3 are fibre fed, because that site has always suffered
problems receiving a decent off air feed from Mendip, (stretching back
into the analogue era).
However, even the main stations are largely 'dumb terminals'. What comes
in on the fibre feeds to all txs is the mux more or less pre-assembled
with its channels, so if something is missing from one transmitter,
it'll be missing from all within the regional group.