Is there still atmospheric "lift"?

[NY]

At the time of the "scorcchio" weather last week, it was said that the
temperature and/or pressure might cause changes (worsenings) in TV
reception. Is that still the case? I ask because I've lost one of the
muxes - COM4 on Belmont which is the highest of all the frequencies that
they use. When I say "lost" I mean that TVs report "no signal" and DVB-USB
tuners report "no lock" for channels on that mux. And "no lock" means that
you don't even get any indication of signal level or SNR. COM4 has always
been the weakest signal, but usually I'm just on the right side of the
digital cliff and I don't normally even notice more glitches in a recording
from a channel on that mux compared with a channel on another mux.

If reception conditions at the moment are untypical, I'll leave things as
they are; I mainly use satellite and only need terrestrial if there's
another programme on another channel/mux to be recorded at the same time.

[williamwright]

Yes there's a slight lift.

Bill

[Scott]

I misread this first time. I was thinking of the system in shops in
the old days where a tube containing money was sucked away to go to
the cashier, then a receipt was returned in the tube. Anyone remember
them?

[Mark Carver]

Yep, Heelas (aka John Lewis in new money)  dept store in Reading

[Woody]

Swallows in Chesterfield
ISTR George Henry Lee in Liverpool as well (a.k.a. JLP.)

[charles]

In article <gpm2ehtmse15i694v...@4ax.com>,

of course. The Co-op in Roseburn, Edinburgh had such a sysyem

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

[NY]

"Mark Carver" <mark....@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:jkd4pp...@mid.individual.net...

Ah, did they have them. The only place where I've seen them is a bit of a
cheat: the CoOp in Beamish Open Air Museum. Actually, I'm wondering whether
that was atmospheric. It may have used a lever-operated platform to raise a
ball containing the cash onto an overhead trackway along which it rolled to
the cash office. Not sure how the ball made its return journey: maybe it
didn't and a supply of empty balls had to be taken back to the sales
assistants by hand periodically.

There were also modern-day ones (which were atmospheric) that were fitted to
each checkout till in some branches of Tesco in the 1990s. I wonder how much
cash a typical supermarket handles these days, with almost all transactions
being by card. I suppose there must *some* if self-service checkouts are
occasionally marked "card only" when there is (presumably) a fault with the
cash-handling mechanism.

[Andy Burns]

NY wrote:

> The only place where I've seen them is a bit of a cheat: the CoOp in Beamish
> Open Air Museum. Actually, I'm wondering whether that was atmospheric. It may
> have used a lever-operated platform to raise a ball containing the cash onto an
> overhead trackway along which it rolled to the cash office.

Sainsburys installed a few "modern" versions that definitely operated on
pneumatics, I thought they all went ages ago, but here's a photo from someone
asking about them just 3 years ago

<https://preview.redd.it/zz55ztkiyqs31.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=073ad7f880cae7196c06b6500199165547d16e86>

[Scott]

I thought the return journey carried the customer's receipt.

[Max Demian]

On 27/07/2022 16:38, Scott wrote:

I remember Foyles bookshop in Charing Cross Road where you had to go
down to the ground floor and queue at a cashier box, pay, be given a
receipt and then go up several floors to collect your books. And that
was long after shops gave up the pneumatic tubes.

--
Max Demian

[MB]

On 27/07/2022 17:10, charles wrote:
> of course. The Co-op in Roseburn, Edinburgh had such a sysyem

The One Show did a piece about them a few years ago, they set up a
system around the studio as a demonstration.

They are widely used in hospitals apparently for moving samples, drugs
etc around.

https://www.aerocom.co.uk/products/aerocom-pneumatic-tube-systems/

https://pneumatic.tube/the-lamson-pneumatic-tube-system-at-jacksons-of-reading-uk

[NY]

"Scott" <newsg...@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8ks2eh5hlq9g9fimh...@4ax.com...

> On Wed, 27 Jul 2022 18:06:59 +0100, "NY" <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>
>>"Mark Carver" <mark....@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>news:jkd4pp...@mid.individual.net...
>>> On 27/07/2022 16:38, Scott wrote:
>>>> I misread this first time. I was thinking of the system in shops in
>>>> the old days where a tube containing money was sucked away to go to
>>>> the cashier, then a receipt was returned in the tube. Anyone remember
>>>> them?
>>> Yep, Heelas (aka John Lewis in new money) dept store in Reading
>>
>>Ah, did they have them. The only place where I've seen them is a bit of a
>>cheat: the CoOp in Beamish Open Air Museum. Actually, I'm wondering
>>whether
>>that was atmospheric. It may have used a lever-operated platform to raise
>>a
>>ball containing the cash onto an overhead trackway along which it rolled
>>to
>>the cash office. Not sure how the ball made its return journey: maybe it
>>didn't and a supply of empty balls had to be taken back to the sales
>>assistants by hand periodically.
>

> I thought the return journey carried the customer's receipt.

I wonder if in the case of a ball-on-a-track system, which has no immediate
return path (*), the sales assistant writes/prints the receipt and assumes
the money to be paid as soon as he sends it on its way to the cash office,
rather than the normal procedure with a pneumatic system where the cash
office writes the receipt and returns it to the assistant to give to the
customer.

The pneumatic system in supermarkets was a batch process in the idle time
(if any!) between customers, whereby the cashier could send off some cash to
the office, rather than a secure trolley being wheeled around to do this.
Probably a bit less tempting to an opportunistic thief, though I bet those
trolleys have wheels that lock and dye that sprays out if they are stolen as
they are doing the till-emptying run.

Someone's mentioned Sainsburys. I'm *sure* I remember the system in my local
supermarket which was Tesco, but I could well be confusing two things - my
local Tesco and seeing pneumatics in another shop that may not even have
been Tesco.


(*) Because if the track is sloping down from assistant to cash office so
the ball rolls that way, it will be sloping *up* when they want to send the
ball back, hence my suggestion that there may be a "mandraulic" procedure
for returning a batch of balls every so often,

[NY]

"Max Demian" <max_d...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:0cidnRluMbEOFHz_...@brightview.co.uk...

Foyles had a death wish with that system. It was so customer-unfriendly that
they didn't deserve to stay in business. It wasn't quirky and endearing - it
was downright evil. I wish it had been Foyles that had gone under and the
much better Borders chain that had survived. Who in their right mind wants
to choose books from several different sections, get a ticket for each one
from the *correct* department's desk (Fiction couldn't issue tickets for
Computing or Travel*), take all those tickets down to the cash desk and then
go back to each desk in turn to pick up your various books. What a stupid
system. Mrs Foyle must have really *hated* her customers to put them through
that.

I wonder how many times customers got down to the ground floor cashier, saw
a long queue and thought "Sod it! I'm not waiting in this queue for ages and
then going back up to get my books. I'll go to Waterstones / Borders etc and
buy the books there instead where it's a straightforward process."


(*) Or at least, they never would do so when I went up to a convenient desk
and asked for a ticket to cover all the books so I could go pay for them and
return to the desk. I had surly assistants say "Go take that one back to the
Fiction section. And take that one to Travel. We can only deal with Computer
books."

[NY]

"MB" <M...@nospam.net> wrote in message news:tbs34s$2jp0r$1...@dont-email.me...

How do they work if there are several different departments that you want to
send cash/drugs/samples between? Is there a central "routing department"
that all the departments send to, where staff unload a canister, read the
destination and put it into another tube for that department, and the same
for the return journey? Or do modern systems include routing info
electronically on the canister so an automated central routing unit does the
same job?

[williamwright]

On 27/07/2022 21:48, NY wrote:

> I wonder how many times customers got down to the ground floor cashier,
> saw a long queue and thought "Sod it! I'm not waiting in this queue for
> ages and then going back up to get my books. I'll go to Waterstones /
> Borders etc and buy the books there instead where it's a straightforward
> process."

I haven't bought a book for years. I doubt if paper books will exist
except as a niche market for much longer. Unthinkable? New media usually
displace older formats. Floppy disks, gramophone records, camera film.

Bill

[MB]

On 28/07/2022 03:25, williamwright wrote:
> I haven't bought a book for years. I doubt if paper books will exist
> except as a niche market for much longer. Unthinkable? New media usually
> displace older formats. Floppy disks, gramophone records, camera film.

I think books have some time left, I have bought several in the last
couple of weeks.

Some people have rarely bought books anyway, someone once said that the
size of the TV set (in inches) in many homes is more than the number of
books that they have in the home.

[Woody]

I remember going into a shop in Prague soon after Communism collapsed to
buy some bread rolls.
We went to one counter and selected our items where someone gave us a
piece of paper.
We took the piece of paper to another counter behind us where we gave it
and money to someone else.
We went to the other end of that counter and were given another piece of
paper.
We returned to the original counter and handed over the last piece of
paper. We were told to go to the other end of the counter (opposite end
to where we started) where we were given the rolls.
Queues everywhere.
People annoyed and frustrated.
Buying a couple of bread rolls took best part of 20 minutes!

[Scott]

I thought only the cashiers (in the cash office) were authorised to
issue receipts. Would they be stamped in those days?

>
>The pneumatic system in supermarkets was a batch process in the idle time
>(if any!) between customers, whereby the cashier could send off some cash to
>the office, rather than a secure trolley being wheeled around to do this.
>Probably a bit less tempting to an opportunistic thief, though I bet those
>trolleys have wheels that lock and dye that sprays out if they are stolen as
>they are doing the till-emptying run.
>
>Someone's mentioned Sainsburys. I'm *sure* I remember the system in my local
>supermarket which was Tesco, but I could well be confusing two things - my
>local Tesco and seeing pneumatics in another shop that may not even have
>been Tesco.

I have seen this but I don't know if it was Tesco or Sainsbury's.
Tesco I suspect.

>
>(*) Because if the track is sloping down from assistant to cash office so
>the ball rolls that way, it will be sloping *up* when they want to send the
>ball back, hence my suggestion that there may be a "mandraulic" procedure
>for returning a batch of balls every so often,

I thought they were always pneumatic, like Brunel's atmospheric
railway.

[NY]

"williamwright" <wrights...@f2s.com> wrote in message
news:jkead6...@mid.individual.net...

Good point. I used to buy books (usually paperback) of authors that I liked,
usually paying the full price in a bookshop (eg WH Smith or Waterstones).
Then I began buying them cheaper from Amazon. Then I started getting books
out of the library. Now it's a mixture of library books and buying/borrowing
on my Kindle. It is so much easier to take a Kindle on holiday than a whole
load of books (even paperback) to suit whatever I might feel like reading at
the time. Kindles have the advantage that you can search them - "Who's this
character that's just been mentioned? Where did he come in to the story? Let
me go back and check".

It's "exciting times" (whether that's a good or a bad thing) over the past
few decades. So many old technologies are being replaced: books,
photographic film, analogue (vinyl or mag tape) music, letters as a means of
communication. What is interesting is that even some of the earlier digital
formats are now becoming obsolete: people are buying music and films as
downloads rather than as CDs or DVDs, people are communicating by text
message or WhatsApp/Skype rather than by email. I'm in the invidious
position of always being one technology behind the forefront used by my
nephews who are in their twenties. I use my mobile phone for short messages
to/from people and for quick browsing, but anything which requires more than
a trivial amount of typing or the need to read a lot of information needs a
proper "grown up" Windows/Linux desktop or laptop PC.

I may not play CDs as much as I used to, and tend to play from MP3 copies of
them on my phone or on my desktop PC while I'm working, but I still keep the
CDs and DVDs as the ultimate archive format or if I want higher quality than
can be reproduced by MP3 (certainly at bitrates of below about 200 kbps) on
a device with an indifferent amplifier through indifferent earbud
headphones. It's the compromise between ease of use versus sound quality.

[Roderick Stewart]

On Wed, 27 Jul 2022 21:48:56 +0100, "NY" <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote:

>> I remember Foyles bookshop in Charing Cross Road where you had to go down
>> to the ground floor and queue at a cashier box, pay, be given a receipt
>> and then go up several floors to collect your books. And that was long
>> after shops gave up the pneumatic tubes.
>
>Foyles had a death wish with that system. It was so customer-unfriendly that
>they didn't deserve to stay in business.

Similarly with a petrol station near me a few years ago. One day, for
some reason, they introduced a requirement to go to the counter and
pay or leave your credit card, before filling your car. This system
inevitably required two visits to the counter instead of one, and
round about the same time, some other petrol stations, notably Tesco,
were introducing pay-at-the-pump which requires no visits to the
counter at all. You'd have thought anyone with more than three
functioning brain cells could have predicted the result of this.

That petrol station closed shortly afterwards and the site became
derelict for a couple of years. It's now a mini Tesco.

Rod.

[SimonM]

Lamson tubes.

Extensively used in WWII and later cold war civil
defence bunkers for message passing (the bigger
bunkers, that is - the small ones had hatches in
the walls).

They are still around and occasionally found in use:

We have a large Asda at Cribbs Causeway: I think
it opened as a Carrefour in the late 1970s. Each
till had a one-way Lamson tube, allowing the
cashiers to send wads of notes to the strongroom
quickly, presumably so any attack on the till
would be pointless, and no big amounts had to
traverse the shop. The till supervisors would
redistribute empty canisters in batches.

They reorganised the tills a few years ago, and I
was surprised to see each relocated station still
had its Lamson tube (which seemed to be connected
to the system up in the ceiling grid). That said,
I can't believe its busy, as the dominance of
plastic and the rise of tap-to-pay must have made
it largely irrelevant.

Regarding the OP, it's nice to think such things
as hot weather still provide fun for DXers.

[Andy Burns]

Roderick Stewart wrote:

> Similarly with a petrol station near me a few years ago. One day, for
> some reason, they introduced a requirement to go to the counter and
> pay or leave your credit card, before filling your car.

I remember encountering that system (in a dubious neighbourhood which presumably
was prone to fuel theft) and, even though I was running on fumes, I drove away
to find another garage, now they tend to have ANPR to "unlock" the pumps.

[Andy Burns]

SimonM wrote:

> so any attack on the till would be pointless, and no big amounts had to traverse
> the shop.

That's OK until the thieves break into the roofspace!

<https://dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2780392>

[Woody]

That was in the fuel shortages (ISTR caused by tankers being blockaded
at fuel terminals?) around 2000(?). I had a company fuel card and even
that had to be taken to the desk before I could fill up.
As a radio comms eng with emergency service customers in the early part
of it I used to go fill up at 1am without problem.

[NY]

"Woody" <harro...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:tbtdil$2tupc$1...@dont-email.me...

You wonder how these awkward systems started? Were they designed to be
awkward and bureaucratic, or did no-one think through the shopping
experience from the customer's point of view?

I remember going to a little bakery in the centre of Brussels and after we'd
said what we wanted (in schoolboy/girl French), the assistant replied in
French. She was happy to translate into English (but thanked us for at least
*trying* French) when we offered her the cash, and told us instead to use
the "machine" to pay. This turned out to be a tall thin box on the floor
rather like a very big tower PC. You inserted your coins/notes into it and
when it registered the correct amount, the assistant would hand over the
goods. It was an unusual but excellent way of avoiding the assistants having
to touch dirty coins/notes. I haven't seen them anywhere else. Maybe they
are only used in shops which make a lot of small-value transactions, where
the cost of a transaction charge for a credit/debit card would become
prohibitive - and where there is the hygiene aspect of "dirty" money.

[MB]

On 28/07/2022 09:55, Woody wrote:
> That was in the fuel shortages (ISTR caused by tankers being blockaded
> at fuel terminals?) around 2000(?). I had a company fuel card and even
> that had to be taken to the desk before I could fill up.
> As a radio comms eng with emergency service customers in the early part
> of it I used to go fill up at 1am without problem.

We had a letter authorising us use any pumps for emergency service but
if none available we were sent a drum of Red(?) Diesel for the diesel
generator that we could use in the vehicles if necessary (a pump was
supplied as well to transfer to Jerry Cans). We just had to fill in a
form to say how much we had used but never had to use any of it.

[NY]

"MB" <M...@nospam.net> wrote in message news:tbtk0p$2vgh1$1...@dont-email.me...

That emergency authorisation to use red diesel in cars was an interesting
one. I gather that red diesel contains chemicals which can be detected in
the fuel system long after the red diesel has been used up and you've
switched back to white diesel - so HMRC can detect whether you've *ever*
done it in the past, not just if you are caught with it in your tank. Once
the temporary authorisation came into effect, anyone with an old enough car
to have been on the road at that time, who has access to red diesel, has a
cast-iron get-out if they are suspected of using it since then - as long as
they don't have it in the tank at the time.

Apparently there are ways of "straining" out the red dye fairly easily - no
idea how, never researched it, don't want to know - but getting rid of the
long-lasting chemical marker has not yet been cracked.

I presume trains use red diesel rather than white diesel because white
diesel is DERV - emphasis on the R=road, as opposed to a fictitious
W=wheeled. Is heating oil stained red to prevent it being used in diesel
cars?

I've always wondered: how much do HGVs pay for their fuel, bought in bulk
with economies of scale, compared with the pump price of diesel?

[NY]

"Andy Burns" <use...@andyburns.uk> wrote in message
news:jkf0v9...@mid.individual.net...

Theft is theft, but you've got to admire his cunning ;-)

[John Williamson]

On 28/07/2022 10:49, NY wrote:

> That emergency authorisation to use red diesel in cars was an
> interesting one. I gather that red diesel contains chemicals which can
> be detected in the fuel system long after the red diesel has been used
> up and you've switched back to white diesel - so HMRC can detect whether
> you've *ever* done it in the past, not just if you are caught with it in
> your tank. Once the temporary authorisation came into effect, anyone
> with an old enough car to have been on the road at that time, who has
> access to red diesel, has a cast-iron get-out if they are suspected of
> using it since then - as long as they don't have it in the tank at the
> time.
>

They don't just check for the presence of the marker, but the
concentration, so they know whether it is just a trace from a while ago
or you used it last week and it's still in the tank. They are basically
allowed to make up a number and use that as the duty you owe them in
unpaid duty.

> Apparently there are ways of "straining" out the red dye fairly easily -
> no idea how, never researched it, don't want to know - but getting rid
> of the long-lasting chemical marker has not yet been cracked.
>

<Cough> Activated charcoal. <cough>

> I presume trains use red diesel rather than white diesel because white
> diesel is DERV - emphasis on the R=road, as opposed to a fictitious
> W=wheeled. Is heating oil stained red to prevent it being used in diesel
> cars?
>

Yes, rail transport uses rebated (red) diesel,as does commercial water
transport.

The rules changed recently, and now all building plant and things like
fork lift trucks in warehouses now has to use road diesel, not red,
though farmers are still allowed to use red as long as the machinery is
only used on their own farm.

The position on it for leisure craft in the UK is "interesting", as we
are allowed to use red diesel, but when using the engine to move the
boat as against generating power, we have to lay full duty on that
portion of what we buy. (The rule in Northern Ireland is different, due
to the Northern Ireland Protocol.)

> I've always wondered: how much do HGVs pay for their fuel, bought in
> bulk with economies of scale, compared with the pump price of diesel?

It varies with the size of your company and how much you get delivered
at a time. Bus companies effectively pay even less, as they get a fuel
duty rebate on their white diesel if they run local bus services, though
they have to pay full duty and then reclaim the mileage allowance later.

Most transport companies who do not have their own bulk tank on site
use agency or bunker cards, and get a discount on the pump price when
they settle up. The forecourt owner normally gets any fuel they supply
under that deal replaced litre for litre in their next delivery, so if
they sell 2,000 litres on agency, on the next tanker they are "given"
2,000 litres, plus a payment towards their running costs.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Roderick Stewart]

On Thu, 28 Jul 2022 09:55:21 +0100, Woody <harro...@ntlworld.com>
wrote:

I don't remember exactly when it was, but I'm sure it was more recent
than 2000. Also, if it was the result of a fuel shortage, you'd think
they'd all have been doing it, in which case it wouldn't have had any
adverse effect on any individual one but it was only the one petrol
station near me that decided to do it, with the inevitable result.
Price differences between petrol stations tend to be less than the
extra fuel you'd burn shopping around, so proximity and convenience
are usually the main parameters of choice.

Rod.

[MB]

On 28/07/2022 10:49, NY wrote:

> That emergency authorisation to use red diesel in cars was an interesting
> one. I gather that red diesel contains chemicals which can be detected in
> the fuel system long after the red diesel has been used up and you've
> switched back to white diesel - so HMRC can detect whether you've*ever*
> done it in the past, not just if you are caught with it in your tank. Once
> the temporary authorisation came into effect, anyone with an old enough car
> to have been on the road at that time, who has access to red diesel, has a
> cast-iron get-out if they are suspected of using it since then - as long as
> they don't have it in the tank at the time.

I presume they kept a record of registrations of cars that had been
authorised to use it/

Don't they change the additives periodically?

[Roderick Stewart]

On Thu, 28 Jul 2022 10:04:40 +0100, "NY" <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote:

>You wonder how these awkward systems started? Were they designed to be
>awkward and bureaucratic, or did no-one think through the shopping
>experience from the customer's point of view?

The latter I think. It's not complicated. For example, Mr Bezos didn't
become one of the richest men in the world by designing a system that
made it difficult for his customers to spend their money.

Rod.

[NY]

"John Williamson" <johnwil...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:jkf5tp...@mid.individual.net...

> The rules changed recently, and now all building plant and things like
> fork lift trucks in warehouses now has to use road diesel, not red, though
> farmers are still allowed to use red as long as the machinery is only used
> on their own farm.

I presume that farmers can still use red diesel permanently, but they now
have to declare the number of miles that they drive on roads between farms
etc, whereas previously they didn't have to. Surely no-one expects them to
drain the tank of red diesel as they leave a field, fill up with white
diesel for the road journey and then swap back when they get to the other
farm/field.

[Andy Burns]

NY wrote:

> I presume trains use red diesel rather than white diesel because white diesel is
> DERV

Might have done back then, but I think now everything that isn't agriculture (so
trains, excavators on building sites, canal boats) has to pay duty?

[John Williamson]

If they are driving between fields on their own farm(s), they can still
use red. If they are acting as a contractor, and work on someone else's
field, they must use white in that vehicle at all times.

[John Williamson]

On 28/07/2022 10:04, NY wrote:

> You wonder how these awkward systems started? Were they designed to be
> awkward and bureaucratic, or did no-one think through the shopping
> experience from the customer's point of view?
>

Shop staff were and are not always 100% honest or trustworthy.

In the case of the older stores, it was to avoid having the counter
staff handle any money, which was all handled by the accountancy staff
in a secure cage, and watched by their overseers. Early tills were not
very reliable, either.

For much the same reason, when Woolworths started, all items were priced
at, say, 11 1/2d, not a round shilling. The customer was very unlikely
to have the correct change, so the girl had to open the till to take the
change out, as the customer would invariably wait for it, which meant
she would put the money in and issue a receipt. There was also a rule
that nobody working on the shop floor was permitted to have pockets in
their clothes, and store uniforms were designed accordingly. That is the
main reason that large stores always issued a uniform, which had to be
worn when on duty, to all staff.

Nowadays,there is at least one camera watching every till at all times
and the operator of the camera can count the money going in and the
money going out if they so desire.

[williamwright]

The ingenuity of the criminal classes is astonishing. As a contractor in
various prisons I've been amazed at the clever tricks the cons get up
to. If only they'd used their brains to go straight...

Bill

[Roderick Stewart]

It all seems to be based on the fundamental principle that employers
don't trust their employees. I wonder why that should be? It would be
a strange coincidence if the only honest members of society were the
ones that employ others. Is there something about running a business
that makes you honest - or is there something in general that makes
employees feel the need to augment their wages? Hold on, I've just
thought of something that might improve matters...

Rod.

[NY]

"williamwright" <wrights...@f2s.com> wrote in message

news:jkfu3g...@mid.individual.net...

It still amuses me that in the Great Train Robbery, the train was stopped by
the extremely low-tech solution of covering the green signal light (with a
glove, I believe) and shining a torch (or similar) through the red glass to
simulate a red signal, presumably with a preceding faked yellow signal so
the driver slowed down gradually as if for a routine signal check, rather
than going straight from green to red which would have precipitated an
emergency stop and everyone being alert to something (though maybe not a
robbery) having gone wrong.

I read an early (and it showed!) novel by Jack Higgins in which the IRA
staged a robbery of a mail train in the Lake District, though they were
ultimately thwarted by the notes being perforated, which as I understand it
was something introduced as a result of the GTR. Interestingly, the novel's
lack of any reference to the GTR was almost deafening, as if Higgins had
made very certain that he would studiously ignore all reference to it. Funny
story: my sister used to live in the village where the robbers' hideout had
been (though many years after the GTR) and knew the current owners of
Leatherslade Farm. When she mentioned to her friend "You do realise this is
where the Great Train Robbers holed up", the friend had forty fits because
she'd no idea of its history! The estate agent had never told her - I wonder
why? ;-)

Not that I'm glorifying the GTR. It was victimless... but only up to the
point when they hit the driver to "encourage" him to move the train from the
place where they'd stopped it to the place where they unloaded it :-(


Thinking of ingenuity, I happened to see a "call sheet" (description of what
would happen on a day's filming) for an episode of Inspector Lewis. They
were filming some scenes in a real life prison (not a disused one). I was
amused to see a warning in big bold lettering for that day "All camera
ladders used for filming must be securely padlocked to the railings whenever
they are left unattended. This is NOT a joke."

[BrightsideS9]

On Thu, 28 Jul 2022 14:28:31 +0100, Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk>
wrote:

For the real position re duty see
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/reform-of-red-diesel-entitlements/reform-of-red-diesel-and-other-rebated-fuels-entitlement
dated 29/11/2021.

--
brightside S9

[williamwright]

On 28/07/2022 18:34, Roderick Stewart wrote:

> It all seems to be based on the fundamental principle that employers
> don't trust their employees. I wonder why that should be?

It's because supermarkets etc have quite fast staff churn, and because
they pay the minimum wage the staff feel they getting ripped, so it's OK
to nick.

Bill

[williamwright]

On 28/07/2022 22:28, NY wrote:
> Thinking of ingenuity, I happened to see a "call sheet" (description of
> what would happen on a day's filming) for an episode of Inspector Lewis.
> They were filming some scenes in a real life prison (not a disused one).
> I was amused to see a warning in big bold lettering for that day "All
> camera ladders used for filming must be securely padlocked to the
> railings whenever they are left unattended. This is NOT a joke."

Ladders are a big problem when working in prisons.

Bill

[MB]

On 29/07/2022 03:12, williamwright wrote:
> Ladders are a big problem when working in prisons.

I would think everything is a big problem, the inmates will nick
anything. Remember Fletcher with the bicycle bell, I suspect there is a
lot of truth in that story.

[Ashley Booth]

Another problem with working in prisons is filming. ITN got into
trouble when they filmed some keys!

--


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[Brian Gaff]

Well at those frequencies, its normally a temperature inversion which causes
over the horizon signals to come in almost as strong as more local ones.
From your description, however, it seems you are complaining of no signals.
What you need in my view is a radio scanner that runs in the band with an AM
detector. You should hear the multiplexes very clearly as a sudden signal
that runs over the complete channel then drops off again. Its a kind of
whining hiss normally. If you hear that but obviously with peaks and
troughs, then you are getting co channel interference, but if the level is
constant but lower, then I'd suspect the signal is merely borderline.
Brian

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"NY" <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote in message
news:tbrav7$2gqso$1...@dont-email.me...
> At the time of the "scorcchio" weather last week, it was said that the
> temperature and/or pressure might cause changes (worsenings) in TV
> reception. Is that still the case? I ask because I've lost one of the
> muxes - COM4 on Belmont which is the highest of all the frequencies that
> they use. When I say "lost" I mean that TVs report "no signal" and DVB-USB
> tuners report "no lock" for channels on that mux. And "no lock" means that
> you don't even get any indication of signal level or SNR. COM4 has always
> been the weakest signal, but usually I'm just on the right side of the
> digital cliff and I don't normally even notice more glitches in a
> recording from a channel on that mux compared with a channel on another
> mux.
>
> If reception conditions at the moment are untypical, I'll leave things as
> they are; I mainly use satellite and only need terrestrial if there's
> another programme on another channel/mux to be recorded at the same time.

[williamwright]

One big problem is the staff taking their dead AA cells in and swapping
them for good ones in the remotes at the head end.

Bill

[williamwright]

On 29/07/2022 07:34, Ashley Booth wrote:
> Another problem with working in prisons is filming. ITN got into
> trouble when they filmed some keys!

That sort of thing can lead to rekeying the whole establishment at
massive cost.

Bill

[williamwright]

On 29/07/2022 12:48, Brian Gaff wrote:
> Well at those frequencies, its normally a temperature inversion which causes
> over the horizon signals to come in almost as strong as more local ones.

Often stronger.

> From your description, however, it seems you are complaining of no signals.

Or CCI wiping his reception.

Bill

[Stephen Wolstenholme]

Many years ago we had the Strangeway's "incident" when a few prisoners
got up to the roof. I was working on the top floor of the Manchester
Arndale and so the prisoners and I could exchange hand gestures. The
police reported me to my boss. He came up to the top floor to join in
the waving. The police weren't happy. That night the change in weather
did the job for the police.

Steve

--
Neural Network Software for Windows http://www.npsnn.com

[NY]

"williamwright" <wrights...@f2s.com> wrote in message

news:jki3gi...@mid.individual.net...

Yes, I'll have to have a look and see what other transmitters in the YO25
area also use 546 MHz like Belmont's COM4 and which could be picked up by an
aerial pointing at Belmont. Mind you, I've had reception with a very
off-axis transmitter in the past: when we lived just north of Leyburn, with
an aerial pointing eastwards to Bilsdale, I occasionally got Belmont's PSB1
even though it's about 45 degrees off-axis (and over several hills). Lift is
a funny thing.

[williamwright]

On 29/07/2022 16:02, NY wrote:
> Yes, I'll have to have a look and see what other transmitters in the
> YO25 area also use 546 MHz like Belmont's COM4

It would be rather bad planning it there was one!

> and which could be picked
> up by an aerial pointing at Belmont. Mind you, I've had reception with a
> very off-axis transmitter in the past: when we lived just north of
> Leyburn, with an aerial pointing eastwards to Bilsdale, I occasionally
> got Belmont's PSB1 even though it's about 45 degrees off-axis (and over
> several hills). Lift is a funny thing.

It is indeed. Given your circumstances, with an aerial pointing south
and receiving only a weak signal, and with hills in the way, it's much
more likely that any CCI you get will be from distant txes to the south.

Why do I mention the hills, I hear you ask. There is a large estate of
private houses in S Yorks which has to use Belmont. Reception is not
line-of-south because there is high ground 2.5km to the south-east. It's
interesting that when there's a lift the Dutch stations come in at great
strength, appearing not to be impeded by the high ground. I surmise
(without direct evidence) that the ducted signals come from high up.

Bill

[Brian Gaff]

Yes but its very specific on channels which seems a little odd.

Brian

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"williamwright" <wrights...@f2s.com> wrote in message
news:jki3gi...@mid.individual.net...

[Brian Gaff]

Its just reflection off of different densities of air though, and often
controlled by the time of day on the path and indeed the weather conditions.

Brian

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"NY" <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote in message

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[Brian Gaff]

I think if this is a regular thing then a cleaner polar response aerial
might be better assuming there its a difference in heading between the
wanted and unwanted signals. A log periodic, perhaps?

Its just not so easy with digital to predict the outcome as it was with
analogue though.

Brian

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"williamwright" <wrights...@f2s.com> wrote in message

news:jkidln...@mid.individual.net...

[williamwright]

On 30/07/2022 09:41, Brian Gaff wrote:
> Its just reflection off of different densities of air though, and often
> controlled by the time of day on the path and indeed the weather conditions.

Refraction.

Bill

[williamwright]

On 30/07/2022 09:39, Brian Gaff wrote:
> Yes but its very specific on channels which seems a little odd.
> Brian

If it's long distance CCI it will depend on what signals are being
transmitted by the interferer.

Bill

[bilou]

Le 27/07/2022 à 14:26, NY a écrit :
> At the time of the "scorcchio" weather last week, it was said that the
> temperature and/or pressure might cause changes (worsenings) in TV
> reception. Is that still the case?

In doubt I always use :
https://dxinfocentre.com/tropo_eur.html
with quite good results.

[Liz Tuddenham]

Scott <newsg...@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

> I misread this first time. I was thinking of the system in shops in
> the old days where a tube containing money was sucked away to go to
> the cashier, then a receipt was returned in the tube. Anyone remember
> them?

I deasigned a large pig-feeding system that circulated the semi-liquid
food through 2" pipes from the mixing room to the feeding points and
back. After each feed the pipes had to be cleaned out and sterilised.

This was done by connecting a 1.5 kW Lamson blower to the pipe, to blow
the food through. Then the outlet of the pipe was diverted to a
separator leading to a drain; a mixture of air and water was fed into
it, then a sterilising chemical was injected and that was finally washed
out by pulses of water and air.

The interesting bit was when the lid blew off the separator.


--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

[Liz Tuddenham]

Woody <harro...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> On Wed 27/07/2022 16:43, Mark Carver wrote:

> > On 27/07/2022 16:38, Scott wrote:
> >> I misread this first time.  I was thinking of the system in shops in
> >> the old days where a tube containing money was sucked away to go to
> >> the cashier, then a receipt was returned in the tube.  Anyone remember
> >> them?

> > Yep, Heelas (aka John Lewis in new money)  dept store in Reading
>
> Swallows in Chesterfield
> ISTR George Henry Lee in Liverpool as well (a.k.a. JLP.)

Tescos in Keynsham.