DAB radio which can record to SD card?

[Clive Page]

For about the last 10 years we've had a Pure Bug Too and used it to
time-shift the occasional radio programme, in much the same way as we
time-shift TV using a video-recorder.

The Bug Too has a stupid name and a silly design, but it worked quite
well. Until recently; now every few days it loses its marbles and
rescans the radio spectrum, which messes things up if you have set it to
record a programme later on. Messrs Pure answered my support query
fairly promptly (good for them) but said it probably had a memory fault
and was too old to be worth repairing. This is what I half expected.
But the various non-digital radios that we have are between 30 and 50
years old and working well, and indeed I think I could repair some of
them if they went wrong.

But I can't find any replacements that still offer the facility of
recording a significant amount of radio to SD card (or internal memory).
Pure has one model which can record up to a total of 45 minutes -
which is a pretty useless duration. The Roberts RecordR could record to
SD card but has now been discontinued.

Have the broadcasters have leaned on them or is there some other
explanation?

I know I *could* record radio stations via Freeview on my video-recorder
but it doesn't let me move the recordings to another device via SD card
(or similar) so we'd have to sit near the TV to listen to them.

So, are there still any DAB radios on sale which can record a sensible
length of programming?

--
Clive Page

[Roderick Stewart]

On Tue, 8 Dec 2015 09:15:22 +0000, Clive Page <use...@page2.eu> wrote:

>But I can't find any replacements that still offer the facility of
>recording a significant amount of radio to SD card (or internal memory).
> Pure has one model which can record up to a total of 45 minutes -
>which is a pretty useless duration. The Roberts RecordR could record to
>SD card but has now been discontinued.
>
>Have the broadcasters have leaned on them or is there some other
>explanation?
>
>I know I *could* record radio stations via Freeview on my video-recorder
>but it doesn't let me move the recordings to another device via SD card
>(or similar) so we'd have to sit near the TV to listen to them.
>
>So, are there still any DAB radios on sale which can record a sensible
>length of programming?

Would iPlayer not do what you want? All you'd need would be a laptop
or a tablet with an audio output, or reasonable speakers of its own
depending on the importance of sound quality.

Rod.

[Chris J Dixon]

Roderick Stewart wrote:

>Would iPlayer not do what you want? All you'd need would be a laptop
>or a tablet with an audio output, or reasonable speakers of its own
>depending on the importance of sound quality.

How are you proposing to schedule the recording?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
ch...@cdixon.me.uk

Plant amazing Acers.

[Clive Page]

On 08/12/2015 12:55, Chris J Dixon wrote:
> Roderick Stewart wrote:
>
>> Would iPlayer not do what you want? All you'd need would be a laptop
>> or a tablet with an audio output, or reasonable speakers of its own
>> depending on the importance of sound quality.
>
> How are you proposing to schedule the recording?

Yes, iPlayer is suitable for some things, and we do use it. But I find
the iPlayer interface whether on phone, computer, or TV, a bit of a
pain, and the recordings are mostly available only for a limited time.
With the Bug Too, a few seconds setting it up will allow it to can
record every week at the same time, so that afterwards one has a whole
set of episodes of some series, ready to play back on the radio itself,
or on any passing laptop, or indeed in the car. And they never expire.
None of the more new-fangled solutions seems to have anything like the
same convenience.


--
Clive Page

[ChrisK]

Ditto a hold-out still using the Bug Too. Similarly, does anyone make a
DAB radio that even uses the DAB programme guide? The programme guide
is becoming increasingly flakey and often disappears for long periods.

It is mentioned nowhere on the BBC site, and Pure/Roberts don't mention
it anywhere.

Chris K

[Clive Page]

On 08/12/2015 14:31, ChrisK wrote:

> Ditto a hold-out still using the Bug Too. Similarly, does anyone make a
> DAB radio that even uses the DAB programme guide? The programme guide
> is becoming increasingly flakey and often disappears for long periods.
>
> It is mentioned nowhere on the BBC site, and Pure/Roberts don't mention
> it anywhere.

I have the same experience that the programme guide sometimes appears
instantly when you turn the radio on, and at other times it only arrives
after 10 minutes or so, or even never.

Again my guess is that the BBC (or someone) has tried to persuade the
radio manufacturers not to provide any recording facility, in the
interests of preserving their control over copyright. If practically
nobody uses timed recordings any more, the value of the programme guide
is much reduced. So perhaps it persists only because nobody knows how
to switch if off?

By the way, I have found out about one current model which does allow
recording to an external medium* and that that is the "Pure Evoke F4
with Bluetooth", as it allows one to record to a USB memory stick, but
the typical price is £156. I downloaded and read the instruction manual
very carefully but there's no mention of the programme guide, which is a
pity. Curiously the English language manual does not mention being able
to record from DAB stations only from Internet Radio channels, perhaps
because it's US-centric, but the international manual does.

*medium: almost obsolete singular of media. But someone's got to keep
up standards.


--
Clive Page

[James Heaton]

"Clive Page" <use...@page2.eu> wrote in message
news:dcnldf...@mid.individual.net...

This might resolve things for the short term:

http://webshop.cashconverters.co.uk/auction-item/1104904/pure-digital-radio
- it does say in the description it does the recording to SD card.

I've used CC webshop for Humax boxes with generally good results.

James

[Clive Page]

On 09/12/2015 13:01, James Heaton wrote:

> http://webshop.cashconverters.co.uk/auction-item/1104904/pure-digital-radio
> - it does say in the description it does the recording to SD card.
>
> I've used CC webshop for Humax boxes with generally good results.

That's right - it's the Bug Too. Which I know works fairly well - until
it doesn't. But I didn't know about the cashconverters webshop -
useful alternative to ebay.

Actually our Bug Too hasn't lost it marbles once since I started this
thread. It's nice to know that Usenet magic still works.


--
Clive Page

[Brian-Gaff]

And of course a lot of the bbc local stations are only mono on the i player
but stereo on dab now.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
Remember, if you don't like where I post
or what I say, you don't have to
read my posts! :-)

"Clive Page" <use...@page2.eu> wrote in message

news:dco5a5...@mid.individual.net...

[Jim Lesurf]

In article <dco5a5...@mid.individual.net>, Clive Page

get_iplayer. Allows you to fetch a copy of the source file from the
iplayer's servers. In general, it can get anything that's been on BBC radio
during the last four weeks. You can then play the file whenever you want.
Speed of download depends on your connection. Here a R4 program typically
takes about 30 sec or less.

Better quality than DAB. And allows you to use 'series' pids to fetch
relevant sets of some programmes. Runs on Linux, Macs, and Windows.

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html

[Brian-Gaff]

Seems to be a common trait for Pure devices. I had a couple of sonus 1s that
occasionally reset themselves but eventually went into sulk mode. after
some exchanges I found that the firmware in the older radios could corrupt
and fail to reboot the system. They do have a USB at the back, but when this
fault occurs, you guessed it the socket is also dead. In the end both needed
to have their radio modules changed to the 1.2 updated firmware and it has
worked ever since, but I do wish they had continued and developed this
talking system as a number of sighted people say that reading the pink and
blue display was very difficult at the best of times and the spoken word was
very unobtrusive. I guess its all down to cost in the end and hence nobody
thought it cost effective.

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
Remember, if you don't like where I post
or what I say, you don't have to
read my posts! :-)

"Clive Page" <use...@page2.eu> wrote in message

news:dcqulq...@mid.individual.net...

[Clive Page]

On 09/12/2015 17:17, Jim Lesurf wrote:
> get_iplayer. Allows you to fetch a copy of the source file from the
> iplayer's servers. In general, it can get anything that's been on BBC radio
> during the last four weeks. You can then play the file whenever you want.
> Speed of download depends on your connection. Here a R4 program typically
> takes about 30 sec or less.
>
> Better quality than DAB. And allows you to use 'series' pids to fetch
> relevant sets of some programmes. Runs on Linux, Macs, and Windows.

Jim, thanks, and it's good to tell people about this excellent bit of
software. I do use it from time to time (mainly if I forget to set up
my DAB radio in advance to record some particular programme).

But it still seems remarkable to me that DAB radios take a digital
stream and could easily allow you to record it for time-shifting. From
the fact that digital video recorders are on widespread use, lots of
people like to shift their viewing or listening to a time convenient to
them. But of all the digital radios that I've looked at, at least 99%
of models don't provide this facility. I'm just baffled.


--
Clive Page

[James Heaton]

"Clive Page" <use...@page2.eu> wrote in message

news:dcqulq...@mid.individual.net...

> On 09/12/2015 13:01, James Heaton wrote:
>
>> http://webshop.cashconverters.co.uk/auction-item/1104904/pure-digital-radio
>> - it does say in the description it does the recording to SD card.
>>
>> I've used CC webshop for Humax boxes with generally good results.
>
> That's right - it's the Bug Too. Which I know works fairly well - until
> it doesn't. But I didn't know about the cashconverters webshop - useful
> alternative to ebay.

I've used them 3-4 times and found that stuff arrives generally in the time
they say it will, in generally the described condition - i.e. exactly what
you would hope/expect from a 2nd hand retailer.

Cash Generator also have a web shop but never used them.

Also CEX - bought one item from them, it turned out to be faulty, but was
refunded without demur. They even paid the return postage.

James

[Jim Lesurf]

In article <dct19q...@mid.individual.net>, Clive Page

<use...@page2.eu> wrote:

> But it still seems remarkable to me that DAB radios take a digital
> stream and could easily allow you to record it for time-shifting. From
> the fact that digital video recorders are on widespread use, lots of
> people like to shift their viewing or listening to a time convenient to
> them. But of all the digital radios that I've looked at, at least 99%
> of models don't provide this facility. I'm just baffled.

It is a mystery that has repeatedly baffled many over the decades, from
long before DAB. My impression is that radio makers are stuck in the mode:
"I keep telling people, there's no call for it!"

Or to put it another way, "Why make the radio more expensive when no-one
else is doing it so we don't need to compete?"

Like others, I've also found that a pure radio starts to develop a version
of electronic altzheimer's after a few years. Really daft design.

[charles]

In article <552fc0c...@audiomisc.co.uk>,

Jim Lesurf <no...@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <dct19q...@mid.individual.net>, Clive Page
> <use...@page2.eu> wrote:

> > But it still seems remarkable to me that DAB radios take a digital
> > stream and could easily allow you to record it for time-shifting. From
> > the fact that digital video recorders are on widespread use, lots of
> > people like to shift their viewing or listening to a time convenient to
> > them. But of all the digital radios that I've looked at, at least 99%
> > of models don't provide this facility. I'm just baffled.

> It is a mystery that has repeatedly baffled many over the decades, from
> long before DAB. My impression is that radio makers are stuck in the mode:
> "I keep telling people, there's no call for it!"

> Or to put it another way, "Why make the radio more expensive when no-one
> else is doing it so we don't need to compete?"

Sometime in the 1970s, long before Guilford had its own FM relay, I visited
a HiFi dealer in the middle of town. I asked for am FM portable that would
work in the shop. "That's a tall order." was the reply. "Have you got
onem though?" "Yes - I have two!" Neither was British, although at that
time we still had a pretty good relevant industry. I bought the more
expensive because the audio quality was better and it lasted for many
years, until it had an unfortunate fall.

--
Please note new email address:
cha...@CandEhope.me.uk

[Theo Markettos]

Clive Page <use...@page2.eu> wrote:
> For about the last 10 years we've had a Pure Bug Too and used it to
> time-shift the occasional radio programme, in much the same way as we
> time-shift TV using a video-recorder.
>
> The Bug Too has a stupid name and a silly design, but it worked quite
> well. Until recently; now every few days it loses its marbles and
> rescans the radio spectrum, which messes things up if you have set it to
> record a programme later on. Messrs Pure answered my support query
> fairly promptly (good for them) but said it probably had a memory fault
> and was too old to be worth repairing. This is what I half expected.
> But the various non-digital radios that we have are between 30 and 50
> years old and working well, and indeed I think I could repair some of
> them if they went wrong.

Have you tried looking inside? It may be an external memory chip that can
be replaced. One thread suggests an 'Amtel FS081B-CNC' - I don't know what
that is, but many gadgets have 8-pin serial EEPROM/flash chips that aren't
too complicated to change.

('Atmel' is a popular vendor of such chips. 'Amtel' could be a typo, or a
knockoff)

Theo

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <552f5fb...@audiomisc.co.uk>, Jim Lesurf
<no...@audiomisc.co.uk> writes:
[]

>get_iplayer. Allows you to fetch a copy of the source file from the
>iplayer's servers. In general, it can get anything that's been on BBC radio
>during the last four weeks. You can then play the file whenever you want.
>Speed of download depends on your connection. Here a R4 program typically
>takes about 30 sec or less.
>
>Better quality than DAB. And allows you to use 'series' pids to fetch
>relevant sets of some programmes. Runs on Linux, Macs, and Windows.
>
>Jim
>

However, for the occasional user like me (I actually find I want to
record something only once or twice a year), I find get_iplayer
difficult to keep up with (the BBC etc. keep nobbling the old version so
you _have_ to keep it up to date), and most definitely not easy to use:
it seems to be a Linux- (or even Unix-!)like command-line utility, which
it's sad to have to use in today's computer world. (I am not against the
command line as such - I use DOS commands - but find get_iplayer over
the threshold of intuitivity [is that a word?].)

From time to time I hear there's a GUI front-end for it, but the one
time I tried to use one, I lost the will to live. (It may have improved
again lately.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Our enemies are inventive and resourceful. And so are we. They never stop
thinking of ways to harm out country and our people. And neither do we. -
George
W Bush, quoted by Rory Bremner in Radio Times, 10-16 January 2009

[Jim Lesurf]

In article <552fd33c...@candehope.me.uk>, charles

<cha...@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
> Sometime in the 1970s, long before Guilford had its own FM relay, I
> visited a HiFi dealer in the middle of town. I asked for am FM portable
> that would work in the shop. "That's a tall order." was the reply.
> "Have you got onem though?" "Yes - I have two!" Neither was British,
> although at that time we still had a pretty good relevant industry. I
> bought the more expensive because the audio quality was better and it
> lasted for many years, until it had an unfortunate fall.

FWIW At a similar time I bought a Tandberg TP-41 portable radio. I still
use it. Far better sound than other portables I've tried. But I need to
service it sometime as the oscillator/afc started to play up after decades
of daily use.

[charles]

In article <552fe2a...@audiomisc.co.uk>,

Jim Lesurf <no...@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <552fd33c...@candehope.me.uk>, charles
> <cha...@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
> > Sometime in the 1970s, long before Guilford had its own FM relay, I
> > visited a HiFi dealer in the middle of town. I asked for am FM portable
> > that would work in the shop. "That's a tall order." was the reply.
> > "Have you got onem though?" "Yes - I have two!" Neither was British,
> > although at that time we still had a pretty good relevant industry. I
> > bought the more expensive because the audio quality was better and it
> > lasted for many years, until it had an unfortunate fall.

> FWIW At a similar time I bought a Tandberg TP-41 portable radio. I still
> use it. Far better sound than other portables I've tried. But I need to
> service it sometime as the oscillator/afc started to play up after decades
> of daily use.

The sad bit about my story is that a rent review casued the dealer to move
from town centre to edge of town premises where there was no passing
traffic. Rather naturally, they closed not long afterwards.

[Clive Page]

On 10/12/2015 19:01, Theo Markettos wrote:
> Have you tried looking inside? It may be an external memory chip that can
> be replaced. One thread suggests an 'Amtel FS081B-CNC' - I don't know what
> that is, but many gadgets have 8-pin serial EEPROM/flash chips that aren't
> too complicated to change.

No, but I will, thanks for the suggestion.

Actually, since I reported the problem here and to Pure's tech support
people, the radio has been working flawlessly. I've had that happen
before with intermittent faults, which never occur when you connect up
diagnostic equipment or get a technician in, for example. It's sort of
an inverse of Murphy's Law isn't it - there must be a name for this
syndrome but I don't know what it is.

--
Clive Page

[Paul Ratcliffe]

On Fri, 11 Dec 2015 11:44:50 +0000, Clive Page <use...@page2.eu> wrote:

> Actually, since I reported the problem here and to Pure's tech support
> people, the radio has been working flawlessly. I've had that happen
> before with intermittent faults, which never occur when you connect up
> diagnostic equipment or get a technician in, for example. It's sort of
> an inverse of Murphy's Law isn't it - there must be a name for this
> syndrome but I don't know what it is.

I dunno, but it's the same one as when you make an appointment to see
the doctor and then when you get there you've miraculously improved.

[Jim Lesurf]

In article <0$+2vtO84...@soft255.demon.co.uk>, J. P. Gilliver (John)

<G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> However, for the occasional user like me (I actually find I want to
> record something only once or twice a year), I find get_iplayer
> difficult to keep up with (the BBC etc. keep nobbling the old version so
> you _have_ to keep it up to date), and most definitely not easy to use:
> it seems to be a Linux- (or even Unix-!)like command-line utility,
> which it's sad to have to use in today's computer world. (I am not
> against the command line as such - I use DOS commands - but find
> get_iplayer over the threshold of intuitivity [is that a word?].)

> From time to time I hear there's a GUI front-end for it, but the one
> time I tried to use one, I lost the will to live. (It may have improved
> again lately.)

I wrote a simple ROX-app for Linux to make it simpler to use. But this all
depends on how someone wants to go about using such a system. There is
nothing stopping anyone from writing alternative 'front ends' for it.

FWIW I use it by looking at the per-day listings and noting the pid numbers
for the programmes I want to fetch. I can then either click on my ROX-app
and type in a pid, or drag-and-drop a plain text file listing them. Seems
quite easy to me. What suits someone else is a matter for them. But the
reality is that over the last year this has transformed our TV viewing and
Radio listening.

The only significant change has been the BBC move away from RTMP for TV, so
I now use HLS for that. But RTMP still works for radio.

[Johnny B Good]

There *is* a name for this phenomena, it's called "Sod's Law"(tm).


--
Johnny B Good

[Kinnell]

"charles" <cha...@candehope.me.uk> wrote in message
news:55303e1e...@candehope.me.uk...

I bought a B&O portable stereo FM receiver with AFC around that time, it was
a superb piece of kit.....lasted for years.

[Alan White]

On Fri, 11 Dec 2015 18:08:58 -0000, "Kinnell" <a.8...@ymail.com> wrote:

>I bought a B&O portable stereo FM receiver with AFC around that time, it was
>a superb piece of kit.....lasted for years.

Was that a Beolit 609?

--
Alan White
Mozilla Firefox and Forte Agent.
By Loch Long, twenty-eight miles NW of Glasgow, Scotland.
Webcam and weather:- http://windycroft.co.uk/weather

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <XnsA56D844...@207.246.207.122>, pamela
<inv...@nospam.com> writes:
[]
>I seem to recall there were Windows applications which would also do
>this and there was even some away of making use of VLC media player's
>ability to tap into RTMP streams.
>
>But anyway, I thought the current BBC radio downloads were MP3s - which
>don't have a time expiry date. Couldn't you just download these from
>iPlayer radio and avoid the faff of get_player or VLC?
>
BBC _podcasts_ are mp3s, but only a small proportion of their output
(such as the Archers) is available as a podcast. The _majority_ of their
other output (the _usual_ exceptions being those which contain copyright
material, especially music of whatever variety) is available through the
i_player for a while after broadcast, but that's _intended_ to be
listened to then and there (albeit after broadcast), not kept.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

All's well that ends.

[Kinnell]

"Alan White" <alan....@windycroft.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3h8m6bdguvpr1crbv...@4ax.com...

Beolit 611

http://www.beoworld.org/prod_details.asp?pid=843

[Jim Lesurf]

In article <XnsA56D844...@207.246.207.122>, pamela

<inv...@nospam.com> wrote:

> I seem to recall there were Windows applications which would also do
> this and there was even some away of making use of VLC media player's
> ability to tap into RTMP streams.

Problem being that the TV isn't RTMP any more. You need to use an
alternative like HLS - which ffmpeg can do *if* you know the full URL.
(Which get-iplayer can discover, then call ffmpeg.)

> But anyway, I thought the current BBC radio downloads were MP3s - which
> don't have a time expiry date. Couldn't you just download these from
> iPlayer radio and avoid the faff of get_player or VLC?

Depends on what you mean by 'downloads' and how they are obtained. The
source files and the ones sent to the default 'listen again' web interface
are aac/mp4. And this is what get_iplayer obtains.

[Brian-Gaff]

I wonder dear poster, if you could possibly see your way to use standard
quote characters, as what you use makes messages almost impossible to
decipher with a screenreader.
Thanks a lot.

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
Remember, if you don't like where I post
or what I say, you don't have to
read my posts! :-)

"Kinnell" <a.8...@ymail.com> wrote in message
news:n4f3ch$p0g$1...@dont-email.me...
>
> +ACI-charles+ACI- +ADw-charles+AEA-candehope.me.uk+AD4- wrote in message
> news:55303e1e5acharles+AEA-candehope.me.uk...
> +AD4- In article +ADw-552fe2a128noise+AEA-audiomisc.co.uk+AD4-,
> +AD4- Jim Lesurf +ADw-noise+AEA-audiomisc.co.uk+AD4- wrote:
> +AD4APg- In article +ADw-552fd33c96charles+AEA-candehope.me.uk+AD4-,
> charles
> +AD4APg- +ADw-charles+AEA-candehope.me.uk+AD4- wrote:
> +AD4APg- +AD4- Sometime in the 1970s, long before Guilford had its own FM
> relay, I
> +AD4APg- +AD4- visited a HiFi dealer in the middle of town. I asked for am
> FM portable
> +AD4APg- +AD4- that would work in the shop. +ACI-That's a tall
> order.+ACI- was the reply.
> +AD4APg- +AD4- +ACI-Have you got onem though?+ACI- +ACI-Yes - I have
> two+ACEAIg- Neither was British,
> +AD4APg- +AD4- although at that time we still had a pretty good relevant
> industry. I
> +AD4APg- +AD4- bought the more expensive because the audio quality was
> better and it
> +AD4APg- +AD4- lasted for many years, until it had an unfortunate fall.
> +AD4-
> +AD4APg- FWIW At a similar time I bought a Tandberg TP-41 portable radio.
> I still
> +AD4APg- use it. Far better sound than other portables I've tried. But I
> need to
> +AD4APg- service it sometime as the oscillator/afc started to play up
> after +AD4APg- decades
> +AD4APg- of daily use.
> +AD4-
> +AD4- The sad bit about my story is that a rent review casued the dealer
> to move
> +AD4- from town centre to edge of town premises where there was no passing
> +AD4- traffic. Rather naturally, they closed not long afterwards.
> +AD4-
> +AD4- --
> +AD4- Please note new email address:
> +AD4- charles+AEA-CandEhope.me.uk
>
>
> I bought a B+ACY-O portable stereo FM receiver with AFC around that time,

[John Williamson]

On 12/12/2015 18:13, Brian-Gaff wrote:
> I wonder dear poster, if you could possibly see your way to use standard
> quote characters, as what you use makes messages almost impossible to
> decipher with a screenreader.
> Thanks a lot.
> Brian
>

He's using Microsoft Express 6 as a news client, and it's outputting
UTF-7. You should be able to adjust your screenreader to read this
sensibly, as it looks perfectly normal here on a standards compliant
newsreader until it's been through your system.

It would appear that it is your reader that is no standards compliant,
if indeed that is the problem. It is also possible that he needs to
install quotefix, though.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <n4hnvr$k6a$1...@dont-email.me>, Brian-Gaff

<bri...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:
>I wonder dear poster, if you could possibly see your way to use standard
>quote characters, as what you use makes messages almost impossible to
>decipher with a screenreader.
> Thanks a lot.
> Brian
>

I do see what you mean, but I'm afraid such a request from someone who
has been top-posting with quoted text being below a proper separator,
for some time (years?) might get less regard ... (smiley)

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Just seen a Dyslexic Yorkshireman wearing a cat flap!

[Roderick Stewart]

On Sun, 13 Dec 2015 00:00:24 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
<G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>>I wonder dear poster, if you could possibly see your way to use standard
>>quote characters, as what you use makes messages almost impossible to
>>decipher with a screenreader.
>> Thanks a lot.
>> Brian
>>
>I do see what you mean, but I'm afraid such a request from someone who
>has been top-posting with quoted text being below a proper separator,
>for some time (years?) might get less regard ... (smiley)

Do you know what a screenreader is and why Brian uses one? I suspect
if you did, you'd do your best to make allowances like the rest of us.

I've worked in a tech support call centre and occasionally *heard * a
screenreader. How anyone can manage with them is beyond me, but
somehow they do. I don't know if I'd be able to configure a newsreader
if I couldn't see it.

Rod.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <afdp6b57733uavnc6...@4ax.com>, Roderick

Stewart <rj...@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> writes:
>On Sun, 13 Dec 2015 00:00:24 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
><G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>>I wonder dear poster, if you could possibly see your way to use standard
>>>quote characters, as what you use makes messages almost impossible to
>>>decipher with a screenreader.
>>> Thanks a lot.
>>> Brian
>>>
>>I do see what you mean, but I'm afraid such a request from someone who
>>has been top-posting with quoted text being below a proper separator,
>>for some time (years?) might get less regard ... (smiley)
>
>Do you know what a screenreader is and why Brian uses one? I suspect
>if you did, you'd do your best to make allowances like the rest of us.

I do indeed: I am moderately familiar with both JAWS and Window-Eyes,
having supported a blind couple for over 30 years, and another for quite
a few. I shall be learning a little about NVDA over Christmas and new
year.

>
>I've worked in a tech support call centre and occasionally *heard * a
>screenreader. How anyone can manage with them is beyond me, but
>somehow they do. I don't know if I'd be able to configure a newsreader
>if I couldn't see it.

(Let alone viewing the word through an 80 (or 40!) character by one line
window. If you can afford a Braille display, that is.)
>
>Rod.

Because I know Brian is VH/VI, I usually refrain from bringing up his
odd posting style, but when he criticises someone else's ... I'd accept
the top-posting, if he'd _not_ use a proper .sig separator. I accept it
may not be possible to turn that off with the newsreader he uses.

[Alan White]

On Sun, 13 Dec 2015 00:21:26 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
<G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>Because I know Brian is VH/VI, I usually refrain from bringing up his
>odd posting style, but when he criticises someone else's

I didn't see a criticism, I saw a very polite request.

[Roderick Stewart]

On Sun, 13 Dec 2015 10:52:50 +0000, Alan White
<alan....@windycroft.co.uk> wrote:

>>Because I know Brian is VH/VI, I usually refrain from bringing up his
>>odd posting style, but when he criticises someone else's
>
>I didn't see a criticism, I saw a very polite request.

If that's all that was intended I'm sure the recipient will take it
that way.

Rod.