Bilsdale off the air for all services.

[Mark Carver]

Reports that there is a fire there ?

[Brian Gaff (Sofa)]

Is that a brush fire or at the actual transmitter? I would have thought they
would have multiple feeds to such an important site?
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Mark Carver" <mark....@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:infaqj...@mid.individual.net...

[Mark Carver]

On 10/08/2021 14:00, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
> Is that a brush fire or at the actual transmitter? I would have thought they
> would have multiple feeds to such an important site?
>

All I know is a third hand report of a fire. Every service died at
around 13:25hrs

Don't discount 5G arsonist nutters !!

[williamwright]

On 10/08/2021 13:47, Mark Carver wrote:
> Reports that there is a fire there ?

All UHF TV is off. R Tees is off.

Bill

[Andy Burns]

Mark Carver wrote:

> Reports that there is a fire there ?

<https://twitter.com/NorthYorksFire/status/1425081443001188364>

[williamwright]

On 10/08/2021 13:47, Mark Carver wrote:

> Reports that there is a fire there ?

I can faintly hear Tees from Whitby (I expected it to be off) and I
think he's saying something about '...and we'll try to find out...'

Bill

[williamwright]

Radio Tees is on the internet as normal.

Bill

[Mark Carver]

Implies a fire inside the mast. That won't end well (particularly as
Bilsdale is a tubular design)

This happened to a similar mast in The Netherlands a while back

https://youtu.be/Uj5SXwZyvEI?t=92

[charles]

In article <sett99$2ci$1...@dont-email.me>,

Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) <bri...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Is that a brush fire or at the actual transmitter? I would have thought they
> would have multiple feeds to such an important site?
> Brian

No.There was only 1 electricity feeder. A gas turbine powered generator was
the reserve.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

[Mark Carver]

Or it could be the building, going by this picture

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19503528.bilsdale-tv-mast-fire-north-york-moors/

[Andy Burns]

Mark Carver wrote:

> Or it could be the building, going by this picture
>
> https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19503528.bilsdale-tv-mast-fire-north-york-moors/

Keep scrolling down ...

[Mark Carver]

Oh, my. Nothing that can be done there. Stand 1000ft away and watch

[MB]

Pictures on Twitter


https://twitter.com/search?q=bilsdale%20fire&src=typed_query

[NY]

"Mark Carver" <mark....@invalid.invalid> wrote in message

news:infe26...@mid.individual.net...

Does the second picture, of smoke issuing from the top of the mast,
necessarily mean that the mast and its cables are on fire? Could it be that
the hollow mast is acting as a chimney, venting smoke from the transmitter
building below?

[Mark Carver]

It'll be very hot smoke, and coating whatever is inside the mast with
all sorts of nasty stuff

[NY]

"Mark Carver" <mark....@invalid.invalid> wrote in message

news:infki3...@mid.individual.net...

Do transmitter sites tend to keep the transmitters and the aerials separate
so a fire in one doesn't vent hot smoke into the other?

I wonder what disaster-recovery plans there are for Bilsdale. I wonder if
they will get any muxes back on via temporary masts/transmitters, as
happened when Emley Moor mast fell down in 1969.

I bet aerial riggers will be busy for people on the reception boundaries,
turning people's aerials to point at Emley Moor, Bilsdale, Oliver's Mount
etc and helping people retune.

[NY]

"Mark Carver" <mark....@invalid.invalid> wrote in message

news:infaqj...@mid.individual.net...

> Reports that there is a fire there ?

Richmondshire Today News is saying that it was due to a lightning (*)
strike.

https://www.richmondshiretoday.co.uk/major-fire-at-bilsdale-transmitter-hits-tv-and-radio-services/

So probably any equipment that survives the fire will have been fried by the
lightning.


(*) Except they spell it "lightening" (opposite of "darkening") ;-)

[Mark Carver]

On 10/08/2021 16:42, NY wrote:
> "Mark Carver" <mark....@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:infki3...@mid.individual.net...
>> On 10/08/2021 16:25, NY wrote:
>>> "Mark Carver" <mark....@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:infe26...@mid.individual.net...
>>>> On 10/08/2021 14:31, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>> Mark Carver wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Or it could be the building, going by this picture
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19503528.bilsdale-tv-mast-fire-north-york-moors/
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Keep scrolling down ...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Oh, my. Nothing that can be done there. Stand 1000ft away and watch
>>>
>>> Does the second picture, of smoke issuing from the top of the mast,
>>> necessarily mean that the mast and its cables are on fire? Could it
>>> be that the hollow mast is acting as a chimney, venting smoke from
>>> the transmitter building below?
>>
>> It'll be very hot smoke, and coating whatever is inside the mast with
>> all sorts of nasty stuff
>
> Do transmitter sites tend to keep the transmitters and the aerials
> separate so a fire in one doesn't vent hot smoke into the other?

Bilsdale (like Mendip, Belmont, Winter Hill, Waltham, and the ill fated
Emley mast) are enclosed tubular steel construction.

Quite unstable in certain conditions as two of those masts have had
collapses (as have similar masts in Germany and The Netherlands)

There's no pictures of the mast base available on mb21, but Waltham's
arrangement might provide a clue, scroll down

http://tx.mb21.co.uk/gallery/gallerypage.php?txid=679&pageid=164

[Mark Carver]

On 10/08/2021 16:56, NY wrote:
> "Mark Carver" <mark....@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:infaqj...@mid.individual.net...
>> Reports that there is a fire there ?
>
> Richmondshire Today News is saying that it was due to a lightning (*)
> strike.
>
> https://www.richmondshiretoday.co.uk/major-fire-at-bilsdale-transmitter-hits-tv-and-radio-services/
>
>
> So probably any equipment that survives the fire will have been fried
> by the
> lightning.

I don't think so. Read the article again . It's just what some random 
person on Twitter said.

Met Office radar shows no heavy showers in the area until well after the
event

[Jeff Layman]

On 10/08/2021 14:26, Mark Carver wrote:

What a crap piece of reporting! It just shows the "talking head" whilst
the action goes on off picture. Why they didn't have the voice going in
the background whilst the camera focused on the mast fire I don't
understand.

--

Jeff

[tony sayer]

In article <seu5ph$ao0$1...@dont-email.me>, NY <m...@privacy.invalid>
scribeth thus

Very much so, be a real sod cleaning that lot out!....


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-58163612
--
Tony Sayer


Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.

[tony sayer]

In article <seu7ih$de1$1...@dont-email.me>, NY <m...@privacy.invalid>
scribeth thus

Bet it wasn't, that sort of structure will be well earthed and
protected!..

No reported lightning in the area that I can see of!..

[MB]

On 10/08/2021 18:25, tony sayer wrote:
> Very much so, be a real sod cleaning that lot out!....

At Eitshal they emptied the transmitter room and a local builder steam
cleaned it I believe.

[MB]

On 10/08/2021 18:28, tony sayer wrote:
> Bet it wasn't, that sort of structure will be well earthed and
> protected!..
>
> No reported lightning in the area that I can see of!..

Probably just some "expert" on Twitter but it is not always the classic
"bolt of lightning".

[MB]

On 10/08/2021 18:28, tony sayer wrote:

> Bet it wasn't, that sort of structure will be well earthed and
> protected!..

I have known lots of "well earthed and protected" to be damaged (or even
destroyed) by lightning. I spent many hour restoring service at places
after lightning. All had been "well earthed and protected".

Lightning is strange stuff, I went to one hilltop site. Most damage was
the monitoring equipment as usual, the telephone line was dead but OK
after I changed the BT fuse.

We had a metal equipment trolley that was pushed up against the metal
wall heater. The telephone was on the trolley with the handset "coily"
cord trailing over the edge. I pushed the trolley but would not move
until I gave a sharp push - it was spot welded to the metal wall heater.
Then noticed that the "coily" cord was discoloured where it trailed
over the metal edge of the trolley. But it still worked!

[Woody]

The tower base is not directly attached to the building so if smoke is
getting up there it is either being piped up the cables of the cables
themselves are on fire. I think the original 6½" aluminium outer cables
would have been replaced ta DSO for smaller all copper co-ax, but if
there is any ally left, well think of Morbourn and the Falklands.....

[Andy Burns]

NY wrote:

> Do transmitter sites tend to keep the transmitters and the aerials
> separate so a fire in one doesn't vent hot smoke into the other?

But aren't the feeders essentially big fat copper tubes?

[Woody]

I remember an ambulance customer taking a lightning hit on a 30m mast at
the side of the Control building. The mast had a 4ft 1500MHz dish and a
shrouded yagi (a.k.a. donkey's plonker) for analogue links. The
equipment was on the first floor so the cables came off the tower at
about 5m.

The 1500MHz link equipment was untouched, as was the analogue mux
attached to it and the radio control equipment. On the very end was a
PDP11 computer (remember them?) and it took out the 'christmas tree' in
the PDP and fused a four pair telephone cable inside a 2" steel trunk
between the equipment room and the Control Room next door.

[Mark Carver]

Could be fun doing that inside a 1000 ft long, 6 ft diameter metal tube !

[Ulrich Onken]

Am 10.08.2021 um 17:56 schrieb Mark Carver:

> Bilsdale (like Mendip, Belmont, Winter Hill, Waltham, and the ill fated
> Emley mast) are enclosed tubular steel construction.
>
> Quite unstable in certain conditions as two of those masts have had
> collapses (as have similar masts in Germany and The Netherlands)

On 15 January 1985, the tubular steel tower "Bielstein (Teutoburger
Wald)" of WDR in Germany collapsed in the early morning hours. The tower
was 298 metres tall; there was no fire, but it collapsed due to high
winds and icing of the guy wires. At that time I was a student in
Münster and got my wake-up call from the radio. On that morning the the
radio suddenly went silent before half past six. I switched to another
frequency, only to learn of the reasons for the transmitter failure in
the news bulletin at 7. The background is described here:
https://www1.wdr.de/sendemastpdf100.pdf (page 13-, in German, but with
plenty of pictures).

Notably, the main FM service on 93.2 MHz was back on air 8 hours later,
using a backup transmitter of BFBS in Bielefeld, some 30 km northwest of
Bielstein. It took a few more days for the WDR engineers to install a
backup tower at Bielstein and more than a year to replace the original
tower with a steel lattice construction of 302 metres.

By the way, BFBS has stopped broadcasting from Bielefeld only in spring
2020, after most of the British troops had left the area.

Regards,
Uli

[Dickie mint]

On 10/08/2021 18:28, tony sayer wrote:

snip

> No reported lightning in the area that I can see of!..
>

Unless I'm misusing it, or as its Beta it's not working there is no
Lightning shown in the area on Lightningmaps.org!

http://www.lightningmaps.org/?lang=en#m=oss;t=3;s=0;o=0;b=0.00;ts=0;y=54.3591;x=-1.1464;z=15;d=2;dl=2;dc=0;tsc=1;ts24=1;ar;as=21-08-10T06;

[williamwright]

On 10/08/2021 20:28, Mark Carver wrote:
>>
>> At Eitshal they emptied the transmitter room and a local builder steam
>> cleaned it I believe.
>>
> Could be fun doing that inside a 1000 ft long, 6 ft diameter metal tube !

Especially as it's vertical.

Bill

[Roderick Stewart]

I noticed this bit in the Northern Echo article-

"The mast transmits TV and radio signals to parts of North Yorkshire,
Teesside and County Durham and hundreds of households have lost their
TV and radio reception this afternoon as a result of the fire".

Only hundreds? They can't all be using the internet for TV can they?

Rod.

[Mark Carver]

On 11/08/2021 07:35, Roderick Stewart wrote:
>
> Only hundreds? They can't all be using the internet for TV can they?
>
>

They probably will be by this evening !

That said, Sky and Freesat punters will be fine (obviously). You'd hope
Virgin Media in the area are able to use Pontop or satellite to restore
their services.

It'll be interesting to see how many people actually end up with no
means to watch the telly. (It'll be more than hundreds though !)

[MB]

On 11/08/2021 07:47, Mark Carver wrote:
> It'll be interesting to see how many people actually end up with no
> means to watch the telly. (It'll be more than hundreds though !)

People have managed in other areas when a local transmitter has been off
for some time.

[Mike]

In article <2lr6hg162blee9do9...@4ax.com>,

Roderick Stewart <rj...@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

>"The mast transmits TV and radio signals to parts of North Yorkshire,
>Teesside and County Durham and hundreds of households have lost their
>TV and radio reception this afternoon as a result of the fire".
>
>Only hundreds? They can't all be using the internet for TV can they?

That also triggered *my* "order of magnitude error" response :)

According to :-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-58163612

"More than 1 million people ..."

So unless there are a LOT of people in each household up there, I
think they undersold it in the Echo article.
--
--------------------------------------+------------------------------------
Mike Brown: mjb[-at-]signal11.org.uk | http://www.signal11.org.uk

[Mark Carver]

Gimmie some examples ?