Greensome rule questions
Victor Allis
tournament' at our club.
It is a greensome where each team must consist of
a husband and wife.
Last wednesday, my wife and I played together, and
decided to play a greensome
as well, just to get used to it. It helped our
game plan, since we knew how we wanted
to play each hole. The plan was generally: she
should hit a decent tee shot on the par-4's,
so that I could use my length to reach the green.
On the par 5's, I should hit a decent
tee shot, she should make sure to keep it on the
fairway, and I would have an easy
shot for the green. The par 3's, we would both
have a shot at the green.
Anyway, things went reasonably well (68 nett on a
par 72) and we got 9th out of 54.
Okay, now for the two questions I have:
1. On one hole, something interesting happened.
Left is water followed by on the
far left side high grass (where you can lose your
ball) and on the not-too far side
fairway. Normally I hit over the side of the
water, a little fade and nicely on the
fairway (at least that is what I want to believe).
This time I hit it dead straight left,
in the direction of the rough. As I needed a carry
of 200 yards over the water (that
is the disadvantage of going too much left, where
the water continues for ever) I
was not sure what had happened. My wife hit a bad
tee shot which stopped dead
after 20 meters in high grass.
Now what could we do? If we found my ball, we
wanted my wife to play that one.
If not, we had to return so that I could play
hers.
In this occasion, our fellow-competitors had a
cart, he gave me a lift, we checked
the area to find my ball which cleared the water
by 3 meters and was lying there
nice and dry, and went back to collect my trolley.
Question is, in this format is there any way of
hitting a provisional ball in this situation?
We were already a little behind, and this
situation can hold up play quite a bit.
2.
Before the game, I wondered what we had to do when
both me and my wife would
hit out of bounds (not just a theoretical
question). Personally, I thought we would
then select my wife's ball, take the penalty, go
to where she was before (ladies tee),
and I would hit from there. My main question was,
whether I would be allowed
to tee it up (I thought not). When asking the guy
from the competition today, he thought
that just the thought that a guy would hit from
the ladies tee was preposterous. He
said we could both hit a provisional (or new ball
if we knew that the ball was really
out of bounds) and then select a ball.
If that is so, it would mean that greensome is not
just "two players taking a whack and
then selecting one to play on", but would be
something like"two players continue hitting
balls until they finally get one in play, and then
selecting one".
The latter just does not feel right, since if a
player makes an air-shot, the other player
is to hit. Also on the tee (one out of bounds,
other makes an air-shot). Therefore, I
am not totally convinced the club guy was right,
and I am looking for some further
explanations from all you rules wizards.
Best regards, Victor.
Johnty
1. Greensomes is not a form of play recognised by the Rules
of Golf, therefore the organisers may make up any rule
regarding provisionals if they wish. I guess that you would
generally want to follow the rules of foursomes as closely
as possible, in which case you would hit the provisional for
your wife's ball, and vice versa ( decision 29-1/3)
2. If you both hit out of bounds it would make sense to
choose your wife's shot so that you can play from the
forward tee (decison 29/2). And you can tee it up again
(rule 20-5)
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Sam Smale
and so the rtules of golf aqre unlikely to help you.
My understanding of Greensomes (and certainly the way I have always
played it) is that:
1. You both get one hit off the tee
2. You then select one ball
3. You then proceed under normal foursomes rules
If you both hit out of bounds, you still select one ball and then the
appropriate person plays 3 off the tee with that ball.
Sam Smale
I do not thing that the Greensome is a recognised (by the R&A) format
and so the rules of golf are unlikely to help you.
My understanding of Greensomes (and certainly the way I have always
played it) is that:
1. You both get one hit off the tee
2. You then select one ball
3. You then proceed under normal foursomes rules
So if you both hit out of bounds, you still select one ball and then the
appropriate person plays 3 off the tee.
To answer your first question, you may, of course, play a provisional
ball. I also see no reason (apart from the time involved) why you cannot
both play a provisional ball (because the provisional ball is played in
order to avoid wasting time).
And certainly men drive off ladies tees in foursomes (if the lady has
hit out of bounds) so the same must be true of Greensomes. More normal
(and more challenging) is when the lady has to hit of the mens tees. You
dont get much thanks from them for that!
Hope that helps.
Victor Allis
> So, Victor, as you play this hole every time that you play and as "the
> water goes on for ever", if this happens again be sure to say "That is
> over the water" and not "Bloody water". It would appear to make a
> difference. It would be interesting to have heard what you said
> yesterday!!
Well, if I remember correctly, I said about the following:
"Come back. Come back now. COME BACK. Shit, it does not come back.
Water looks pretty long there, but I might be over (started bragging mode to
my playing partners): I normally hit about 240 meters here, so it could
still be dry.
Could also be lost in the high grass there. Please Petra (my wife), hit one
straight for me.
(and so she did, straight for 20 meters in the high grass :-)".
Best regards, Victor.
Pat Williams
<vic...@quintiq.nl> writes
Victor,
I have nothing to add to the comments which Johnty or Sam have offered
but there is an interesting Decision which could have could have some
bearing in these circumstances.
*****
Q.. A players tee shot might be in a water hazard, but clearly it is not
lost outside a water hazard or out of bounds. The player announces that,
since his ball might be in the hazard, he is going to play a provisional
ball and he does so. Rule 27-2a seems to prohibit a provisional ball in
the circumstances. What is the ruling?
A.. The player did not play a provisional ball which, according to the
Definition of "Provisional Ball", is a ball played under Rule 27-2 for a
ball which may be lost outside a water hazard or may be out of bounds.
The second ball from the tee was in play since it was not a provisional
ball.
*****
So, Victor, as you play this hole every time that you play and as "the
water goes on for ever", if this happens again be sure to say "That is
over the water" and not "Bloody water". It would appear to make a
difference. It would be interesting to have heard what you said
yesterday!!
Regards.
--
Pat Williams
Work is a pastime for those who have not discovered the game of golf.
Charles
but Remember the St Andrews Greensome
Very useful format where you must dictate before play
who drives where
For example you take the odds and I'll take the evens
Further developement useful where I am playing with Sam +1 - and I am +28
I must take at least 9 of the second shots
These and I suspect many others have been developed outside the auspices of
the R&A
to make golf more enjoyable for th emany who just play in two corporate golf
days each yesr
Sam Smale
form of golf as Sunningdale foursomes. So I reached for my little book of golf
games (124 pages would you believe) and find the following
Foursomes - Exactly as we know and love (or hate) it. Alternate tee shots,
alternate shots thereafter
Greensomes - Again, the standard two drives, pick one and alternate shots
thereafter
However, there is more
American Foursomes - Both drive, both play second shots but using partners tee
shot, thereafter play alternate shots
Canadian Foursomes - As American foursomes but you both play second shots with
your own ball before chosing and then playing alternate shots
Rye Foursomes - you both drive but the same player must play the second shot at
all the odd holes (as described by Charles below)
Yellowsomes - You both drive and your opponents chose which tee shot you must
continue play with!! (I actually played this in a competition once. Winners got
37 points)
But no mention of St Andrews foursomes or Sunningdale foursomes.
Oh well, what's in a name
Actually, there are some great competitons that you can play on a golf course.
For example, has anyone ever played (on a golf course)
Bridge
Poker
Charles
Normally played with cards!!
But love the 3 club challenge
CU thursday
Charles
Sam Smale
On each hole one side bids for the hole (e.g. we will make 5 and 5)
The other side can then accept the 'contract' or raise the bid (e.g.
We'll make 4 and 5)
This keeps going until one side accepts the contract.
The hole is then played and providing the make their score or better,
the win the agreed unit
Doubling and Redoubling is allowed (and simply increases the stakes)
Teams take it in turn to start the bidding.
3 and 5 is a higher bid than 4 and 4.
It does not matter which one of the pair makes the 4 and which one makes
the 5.
- - - - - - -
Poker is also a fun way to play a fourball. This is "all against all" in
best Poker traditions.
Whenever it is your turn to play (including off the tee), you have to
contribute one unit to the pot.
You can 'fold' at no cost (and continue to play the hole) but cannot
then win or participate in a tie for the hole.
The pot has to be won outright by one player otherwise it rolls forward
to the next hole.
Its a bit like skins but gives you the option of backing out if you
screw up.
It is also not unknown for the two remaining players in a hole to 'do a
deal'. This is perfectly legal and is an active discouragement to people
to fold too early.
- - - - - - - -
Finally, Las Vegas.
Played as a fourball format (2 against 2)
Your team score on a hole is lowest,highest. So if you score 4 and your
partner scores 5, your team score is 45.
You win the difference between your score and your opponents score at
each hole.
For example, if you make 4 and 5 and they make 5 and 6, you win 11
units.
However, there is a catch.
If the winning team makes a birdie, the opponents scores are reversed.
So, If we make 3 and 5 and the opponents make 4 and 5, we get 54-35
units or 19.
If the winning teammakes an eagle, you score as for a birdie but double
the difference.
Can get nasty especially at short holes.
If we make 2 and 4 and you make 3 and 6, we get 63-24 = 39!
Jens Valentin
>
>Finally, Las Vegas.
>Played as a fourball format (2 against 2)
If you don't want to play all 18 holes with the same partner, you could
let the balls decide the partner at each hole; after the tee-shot the two
balls most left on the fairway are partners and the two balls most right
on the fairway are partners.
Andy Freeman
Sam Smale wrote in message <379C9EFA...@wood-hall.demon.co.uk>...
>Actually, there are some great competitons that you can play on a golf
course.
>For example, has anyone ever played (on a golf course)
>Bridge
>Poker
When Lewes GC took over its hilltop course, it ousted the local Cliffe
Cricket Club, so to celebrate our centenary in 1996 we staged a game of
cricket between the President's and Captain's XIs on the site of the old
cricket square on the second fairway. Today's Golfer carried a (staged)
photograph of golfers putting out on the second while the cricket match took
place in the background.
Being one of those golfers who finds delight in actually creating a pitch
mark because it happens so rarely, I was desperate to leave the mother of
all pitch marks with a straight six onto the second or any other green
within range of one of my wild lunges. Unfortunately, my cricket is about as
good as my golf and there was the barrel of Harveys awaiting on the
boundary!
Andy Freeman
Brian Yare
> When Lewes GC took over its hilltop course, it ousted the local Cliffe
> Cricket Club,
>
That must be a long time ago. I was playing up there from about 1963,
and it didn't look new then!
Brian Yare
Handicap Secretary
Ravenmeadow Golf Club
Worcester
Sam Smale
pick his partner. Could lead to some intresting strategies though
Jens Valentin wrote