British Open thought...
Antonio Veranos
while popular, has thusfar won one major tournament in his 5-year career
as a professional.
In a way, I think it might actually be good for McIlroy that he didn't
get much closer to winning this week's British Open... the media crush
was already ridiculous, as if he was something he's clearly not.
--
Antonio Veranos
<insert witty comment here>
Hugh Jardon
Antonio Veranos
[Sun, 17 Jul 2011 08:00:09 -0700 (PDT)]
: Ummm no.
Brilliant counterpoint.
Hugh Jardon
wrote:
> [Hugh Jardon, mcgrisw...@aol.com]
> [Sun, 17 Jul 2011 08:00:09 -0700 (PDT)]
>
> : Ummm no.
>
> Brilliant counterpoint.
>
> --
> Antonio Veranos
>
> <insert witty comment here>
What makes you think it's a counterpoint?
kenpitts
If you ever go over there, don't call it the British Open. It is the
Open Championship.
It's too early to make any pronouncement on Rory. I like what I've
seen so far though.
Ken
Antonio Veranos
[Sun, 17 Jul 2011 08:27:14 -0700 (PDT)]
: On Jul 17, 9:40 am, Antonio Veranos <nos...@thanksverymuch.com> wrote:
: > Perhaps now the media will calm down a bit with regard to a player who,
: > while popular, has thusfar won one major tournament in his 5-year career
: > as a professional.
: >
: > In a way, I think it might actually be good for McIlroy that he didn't
: > get much closer to winning this week's British Open... the media crush
: > was already ridiculous, as if he was something he's clearly not.
: If you ever go over there, don't call it the British Open. It is the
: Open Championship.
I live over here, and it's the British Open. The insistence of some to
refer to it as "THE Open" is cute and all, but that's about it. The
inferiority complex here with regard to non-European golf - and in
particular American golf - is really rather sad. The commentators on
the BBC pretty nakedly root against American players and begin drooling
whenever any European is in the lead, openly cheering for him.
As for the name, to be honest I don't care that much, and it's true that
Scotland is the home of golf so if any part of the world is entitled to
call their tournament "The Open", it's the R&A. Having said that, the
bitter insistence of the media here, to the point that they refer to the
Masters as "The U.S. Masters" (which no one else does)... is just cute.
: It's too early to make any pronouncement on Rory. I like what I've
: seen so far though.
Your first sentence sums it up perfectly; the British media don't get
it, though... they've been heaping the pressure on the kid so much it's
been sickening to watch.
Sandy
> Perhaps now the media will calm down a bit with regard to a player who,
> while popular, has thusfar won one major tournament in his 5-year career
> as a professional.
>
> In a way, I think it might actually be good for McIlroy that he didn't
> get much closer to winning this week's British Open... the media crush
> was already ridiculous, as if he was something he's clearly not.
>
Antonio Veranos
[Sun, 17 Jul 2011 17:14:59 +0100]
: It is not the British Open, it is the Open Championship of Golf!
To those in the UK, sure... pretty much everywhere else... no.
Anyway, the subject of the thread is the media's crush on Rory McIlroy.
kenpitts
wrote:
> [kenpitts, ken.p...@gmail.com]
I think you're mistaken. Find any reference in Europe as the British
Open. It's only in America.
For instance, here is the home page.
Ken
Antonio Veranos
[Sun, 17 Jul 2011 09:37:23 -0700 (PDT)]
: I think you're mistaken. Find any reference in Europe as the British
: Open. It's only in America.
:
: For instance, here is the home page.
:
: http://www.opengolf.com/
I think you're quibbling over a small point. The thread is about
McIlroy and the silly early anointing of him as The Next Big Thing.
For what it's worth, anyway, Wiki sez outside the UK it's commonly
referred to as the British Open. *shrug*
kenpitts
wrote:
> [kenpitts, ken.p...@gmail.com]
I said "British Open" one time on my trip to Scotland in 1998 and was
corrected in a big hurry.
McIlroy will be doing great things in the future. I think he made a
mistake by not playing in any event since the US Open.
Ken
William Clark
Antonio Veranos <nos...@thanksverymuch.com> wrote:
BS, it is "The Open Championship". And reference to "British" is simply
to placate the Americans who haven't learnt their history. And as for
the "inferiority complex" - where have the last four majors gone? Where
is the Ryder Cup? Who is in the top ten in the World Rankings? This is
2011, and the world is changing and so is golf.
The fact is that the Europeans love to beat the Americans because they
tend to exhibit the same kind of superior attitude that you are here.
There is nothing better than taking that down a peg. I worry that the
European tour is now getting so lucrative that these guys will lose that
edge, and play as complacently as the Americans seem to in major
competitions.
I also assume that you didn't listen to ESPN's US coverage today if you
complain about the BBC commentators? They gave Clarke his due (how could
you not?), but clearly almost wet themselves when Mickleson or Johnson
threatened the lead.
And as for your hysteria over the British press's reaction to Rory, were
you not awake when a certain Tiger Woods came through? You would have
thought he did everything including walk on water to listen to that
fawning in the US media.
Now, if you are going to go on living in the UK, I think you need to
relax a little, take a broader view of how things are on BOTH sides of
the Atlantic, and lose the condescending attitude :-)
William Clark
Antonio Veranos <nos...@thanksverymuch.com> wrote:
And Wiki originates in which country? Ah, yes, I see.
johnty
>
> I live over here, and it's the British Open.
There is such a thing as the British Open.
But that wasn't it.
Antonio Veranos
[Sun, 17 Jul 2011 10:24:33 -0700 (PDT)]
:
: On Jul 17, 12:09 pm, Antonio Veranos <nos...@thanksverymuch.com>
You were in Scotland. Big difference. Scotland is indisputably the
home of golf. England gloms onto Scotland when it suits them.
: McIlroy will be doing great things in the future. I think he made a
: mistake by not playing in any event since the US Open.
I think he'll do quite well, but I think Fowler is likely to do more.
William Clark
Antonio Veranos <nos...@thanksverymuch.com> wrote:
Gosh, you DO have a nasty chip on your shoulder about the UK. What
happened, did some smooth talking Londoner steal your girlfriend?
>
> : McIlroy will be doing great things in the future. I think he made a
> : mistake by not playing in any event since the US Open.
>
> I think he'll do quite well, but I think Fowler is likely to do more.
He has not so far, and McIlroy has the better swing. He putted poorly
this week, or he would still have been in the mix.
Antonio Veranos
[Sun, 17 Jul 2011 13:56:08 -0400]
:
: In article <MPG.288d1ab21...@news-europe.giganews.com>,
: Antonio Veranos <nos...@thanksverymuch.com> wrote:
:
: > [kenpitts, ken....@gmail.com]
: > [Sun, 17 Jul 2011 08:27:14 -0700 (PDT)]
: >
You should look up the term "sample size". Golf may well be changing as
it spreads around the world, but any sort of European hegemony at the
top of the leaderboard is not on the horizon.
: The fact is that the Europeans love to beat the Americans because they
: tend to exhibit the same kind of superior attitude that you are here.
: There is nothing better than taking that down a peg. I worry that the
: European tour is now getting so lucrative that these guys will lose that
: edge, and play as complacently as the Americans seem to in major
: competitions.
The fact is that Europeans love to beat the Americans because the
Americans have been dominant without having to brag about it as if it's
some major accomplishment to be better than another nationality. The
Ryder Cup has stirred up a lot of bitterness over the years,
particularly embodied by the likes of the fat git Colin Montgomerie.
As for "There is nothing better than taking that down a peg.", that's
just plain sad. One, there is no "that". Two, if the imagined reaction
of someone else to a victory is more important than the victory
itself... sad.
: I also assume that you didn't listen to ESPN's US coverage today
I didn't listen to ESPN, no, as I live here in the UK. I doubt the
veracity of your report, though, as I've watched hundreds of tournaments
on US television and am happy that nationality is not as stressed there
as it is on British television.
: And as for your hysteria over the British press's reaction to Rory, were
: you not awake when a certain Tiger Woods came through? You would have
: thought he did everything including walk on water to listen to that
: fawning in the US media.
You may have noticed that Tiger Woods won a Hell of a lot more than,
well anyone really, and way more than young Rory McIlroy by this point.
In any case, my point about the drooling over McIlroy is that it's all a
bit much and dramatically unfair to him.
: Now, if you are going to go on living in the UK, I think you need to
: relax a little, take a broader view of how things are on BOTH sides of
: the Atlantic, and lose the condescending attitude :-)
I am taking quite a broad view; pointing out the foibles of the British
media doesn't change that one bit.
Antonio Veranos
[Sun, 17 Jul 2011 14:16:08 -0400]
: > : I said "British Open" one time on my trip to Scotland in 1998 and was
: > : corrected in a big hurry.
: >
: > You were in Scotland. Big difference. Scotland is indisputably the
: > home of golf. England gloms onto Scotland when it suits them.
:
: Gosh, you DO have a nasty chip on your shoulder about the UK. What
: happened, did some smooth talking Londoner steal your girlfriend?
It's quite a common joke here, rooted in fact, that Andy Murray is
British... right up until he's eliminated from a tournament, at which
point he goes back to being merely Scottish.
William Clark
Antonio Veranos <nos...@thanksverymuch.com> wrote:
> [William Clark, cl...@nospammatsceng.ohio-state.edu]
> [Sun, 17 Jul 2011 13:56:08 -0400]
>
> :
> : In article <MPG.288d1ab21...@news-europe.giganews.com>,
> : Antonio Veranos <nos...@thanksverymuch.com> wrote:
> :
> : > [kenpitts, ken....@gmail.com]
> : > [Sun, 17 Jul 2011 08:27:14 -0700 (PDT)]
> : >
No one is claiming that Europeans own world golf these days. But take
another look at your statement "The inferiority complex here with regard
to non-European golf - and in particular American golf - is really
rather sad. The commentators on the BBC pretty nakedly root against
American players and begin drooling whenever any European is in the
lead, openly cheering for him. " It reeks of someone who can't deal with
the fact US golfers are no longer guaranteed a win in a major. In fact,
they are having a hard tie winning ANY major :-)
>
> : The fact is that the Europeans love to beat the Americans because they
> : tend to exhibit the same kind of superior attitude that you are here.
> : There is nothing better than taking that down a peg. I worry that the
> : European tour is now getting so lucrative that these guys will lose that
> : edge, and play as complacently as the Americans seem to in major
> : competitions.
>
> The fact is that Europeans love to beat the Americans because the
> Americans have been dominant without having to brag about it as if it's
> some major accomplishment to be better than another nationality. The
> Ryder Cup has stirred up a lot of bitterness over the years,
> particularly embodied by the likes of the fat git Colin Montgomerie.
"Without having to brag about it"? Oh, my, and this from someone who
just went on about a European "inferiority complex"? As I said
previously, you really need to keep your eyes and ears open a little
more to the world around you. The Ryder Cup has not "stirred up
bitterness". Apart from the deplorable incident with the WAGS on the
17th at Brookline, it remains a great sporting contest. I'm sorry you
can't cope with losing a few, but there it is.
>
> As for "There is nothing better than taking that down a peg.", that's
> just plain sad. One, there is no "that". Two, if the imagined reaction
> of someone else to a victory is more important than the victory
> itself... sad.
You have never played a game as the underdog, and found the victory all
the sweeter because of it? What a sheltered life you have had. I refer
to Ohio State beating Miami in 2003 as a classic example of how good it
can be :-) You don't think that having a dolt like Mark May saying you
were going to lose by 42-10 provides a little extra incentive?
>
> : I also assume that you didn't listen to ESPN's US coverage today
>
> I didn't listen to ESPN, no, as I live here in the UK. I doubt the
> veracity of your report, though, as I've watched hundreds of tournaments
> on US television and am happy that nationality is not as stressed there
> as it is on British television.
So as you didn't listen to it, you have no basis but your own
preconceived prejudice for "doubting" my report. That shows no bias at
all, does it? I am looking at USA v Japan WC final right now - there is
clearly no bias there either ;-)
>
> : And as for your hysteria over the British press's reaction to Rory, were
> : you not awake when a certain Tiger Woods came through? You would have
> : thought he did everything including walk on water to listen to that
> : fawning in the US media.
>
> You may have noticed that Tiger Woods won a Hell of a lot more than,
> well anyone really, and way more than young Rory McIlroy by this point.
> In any case, my point about the drooling over McIlroy is that it's all a
> bit much and dramatically unfair to him.
TW won his first major at the same age as McIlroy, although we had been
hearing about him for a while before that. McIlroy is clearly cut from a
different cloth, and I doubt his life will be defined by an obsession to
win more majors than Nicklaus. Nor, I suspect, will it be derailed so
spectacularly by a) injury, or (more importantly) b) his off field
behaviour. People where he comes from will not put up with that in their
sporting figures - it even cost George Best dearly.
>
> : Now, if you are going to go on living in the UK, I think you need to
> : relax a little, take a broader view of how things are on BOTH sides of
> : the Atlantic, and lose the condescending attitude :-)
>
> I am taking quite a broad view; pointing out the foibles of the British
> media doesn't change that one bit.
We all know the issues with the British tabloid media - especially that
chunk of it owned by Mr. Murdoch. It is nothing new, nor is it unique to
the UK.
Anyway as you might say, "have a nice day" ;-)
Rog
The English Open is defunct (Forest of Arden), never heard of a British
Open. Spill the beans.
Rog
Thomas R. Kettler
Antonio Veranos <nos...@thanksverymuch.com> wrote:
Hey to the following:
<http://andymurrayometer.com/>
He was 91% British after winning a QF at Wimbledon, but it fell to 60%
after losing again to Rafael Nadal.
--
Remove blown from email address to reply.
Loudon Briggs
>: If you ever go over there, don't call it the British Open. It is the
>: Open Championship.
>CLIP
>I live over here, and it's the British Open. The insistence of some to
>refer to it as "THE Open" is cute and all, but that's about it.
One of the mistakes of my life was accidentally erasing a message that
emanated from St, Andrews. When I first heard it, and the St. Andrews
execs talking, I knew it and the accompanying written messages would
get played a lot in situations like this.
At least a half dozen times in print AND three or four times during
the live sound, "The Open" was mentioned and specifically referred to
as "The British Open." I call it whatever I want now!
--
Loudon Briggs lar...@bbz.net Phoenix, Arizona, USA)
William Clark
Conversely, when he is winning the Scots always claim him as a Scot,
when he goes belly up, he is British :-)
Frank Ketchum
"Antonio Veranos" <nos...@thanksverymuch.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.288d38b05...@news-europe.giganews.com...
Reminds me of Albert Einstein's observation that should his theory of
relativity should be proven correct France will claim him as a citizen of
the world and Germany will claim him as a German.
Should it be proven wrong, France will say he is a German and Germany will
say he is a jew.
J. Hugh Sullivan
Without Tiger anybody can win. That's why it is The Open.
That's with no apologies to Ton o Kotex.
Hugh
johnty
johnty
MNMikew
"William Clark" <cl...@nospammatsceng.ohio-state.edu> wrote in message
news:clark-A2CCC8....@news.eternal-september.org...
Pretty rich coming from one of the most condescending people here.
Antonio Veranos
[Mon, 18 Jul 2011 09:50:39 -0500]
: > Now, if you are going to go on living in the UK, I think you need to
: > relax a little, take a broader view of how things are on BOTH sides of
: > the Atlantic, and lose the condescending attitude :-)
:
: Pretty rich coming from one of the most condescending people here.
Indeed, though I let that slide as Willie is at a disadvantage, not
being aware that I've been on RSG in the past, enough to know his mien.
johnty
> the live sound, "The Open" was mentioned and specifically referred to
> as "The British Open." I call it whatever I want now!
>
Repeating the mistakes of others doesn't make it right. Look at the
tv coverage - do you see any offical banner, flag, poster, bib etc
that doesn't say 'The open Championship'.
William Clark
Antonio Veranos <nos...@thanksverymuch.com> wrote:
Actually, I'm well aware of that. Some things (and people) just never
change.
John B.
Who cares? If I start talking to someone about "the Open
Championship," he's not going to know what Open, or even what sport,
I'm talking about.
John B.
state.edu> wrote:
> In article <MPG.288d1ab21e48a317989...@news-europe.giganews.com>,
> Antonio Veranos <nos...@thanksverymuch.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > [kenpitts, ken.p...@gmail.com]
Do you want us Americans who haven't learnt our history always to
refer to the British Open as the Open Championship, then have to
explain to whomever we're talking to what we're talking about? Does an
adequate understanding of history necessarily include knowing the
proper names of major golf tournaments?
Howard Brazee
<john...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Who cares? If I start talking to someone about "the Open
>Championship," he's not going to know what Open, or even what sport,
>I'm talking about.
What sports have events called "The Open"?
I have been confused when someone has talked about "The U.S. Open",
without realizing that he was talking tennis.
A few years ago, the web site for The Open, had many references to The
British Open. Apparently there has been a strong PC objection to
that name recently.
--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."
- James Madison
Tonawanda Kardex
> Perhaps now the media will calm down a bit with regard to a player who,
> while popular, has thusfar won one major tournament in his 5-year career
> as a professional.
>
> In a way, I think it might actually be good for McIlroy that he didn't
> get much closer to winning this week's British Open... the media crush
> was already ridiculous, as if he was something he's clearly not.
Thus says the Tiger fellator.
Jan Van Gerwen
"Antonio Veranos" schreef in bericht
news:MPG.288d1beff...@news-europe.giganews.com...
[Sandy, sa...@millport.net]
[Sun, 17 Jul 2011 17:14:59 +0100]
: It is not the British Open, it is the Open Championship of Golf!
To those in the UK, sure... pretty much everywhere else... no.
I'm not from the UK, and evryone in mainland Europe calls it the Open, it's
like we call the MBA finals the World Series even if it has nothing to do
with The World. It's also like americans naming a game thats played with the
hands most of the time Football instead of naming the real thing Football.
Same goes for Hockey , we call Hockey played on ice , Icehockey and on a
field Hockey, you name it the other way around. Now as far as Majors go in
golf, I concider the Masters and the Open as THE majors , the other 2 are
somehow less important. Ask 100 golfers wich Major they'd like to win and I
guess it would be 50% The Open, 40% The Masters and 10% the other 2.
Now as for McIroy vs Woods , we'll see how many majors Rory has won when
he's 10 years older, might be it's still only the one, maybe thats also due
to many more golfers leveling at the top, who was Woods up against, 2 or 3
that could beat him once in a while.
As for Fowler, he has yet to win anything close to a major and I really
doubt he will, why, because the US media will have ruined him long before he
does just like they ruined Michelle Wie and several other sports(wo)men, why
a few years ago the next Pele came from the States according to the US
media, never heard of him again, actually don't even know his name anymore.
Greetz Jan
Tonawanda Kardex
> Antonio Veranos wrote:
> > Perhaps now the media will calm down a bit with regard to a player who,
> > while popular, has thusfar won one major tournament in his 5-year career
> > as a professional.
>
> > In a way, I think it might actually be good for McIlroy that he didn't
> > get much closer to winning this week's British Open... the media crush
> > was already ridiculous, as if he was something he's clearly not.
>
Wimbledon has that bug up its ass, too.
Cue the Kevin Kline line from _A Fish Called Wanda_:
"Oh, you English are SO superior, aren't you? Well, would you like to
know where you'd be without us, the good old U.S. of A., to protect
you? The smallest fuckin' province in the Russian Empire, that's
where, so DON'T call me stupid, lady, just THANK me! ... If it weren't
for us, you'd all be speaking German, singing, "Deutschland,
Deutschland über alles!"
xxxxx
>
> Do you want us Americans who haven't learnt our history always to
> refer to the British Open as the Open Championship, then have to
> explain to whomever we're talking to what we're talking about? Does an
> adequate understanding of history necessarily include knowing the
> proper names of major golf tournaments?
Sure, it's official name is The Open Championship. Who
cares, it's the British Open.
In tennis, there are the US Open, the French Open, and the
Australian Open. In golf, there are the US Open and the British
Open. If one of them is presumptuous enough to label itself "THE
Open," I really don't give a damn, I'm still going to refer to them as
the US Open and the British Open so people will know which tournament
I'm talking about when I'm talking about it.
Wimbledon refers to its tournament as "The Championships."
Again, who cares, there are four majors, and no matter how much they
call themselves THE championship, they're still just Wimbledon to the
rest of us. There is no one THE open in either golf or tennis, no
matter how much people might want to claim such a designation.
Huck
John B.
wrote:
I remember when the Wimbledon Dons told Jimmy Connors to stop grunting
when he hit the ball. Positively uncivilized, they said.
Frank Ketchum
"Jan Van Gerwen" <janbouli...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:j04kba$r1s$1...@dont-email.me...
>
>
> "Antonio Veranos" schreef in bericht
> news:MPG.288d1beff...@news-europe.giganews.com...
>
> [Sandy, sa...@millport.net]
> [Sun, 17 Jul 2011 17:14:59 +0100]
>
> : It is not the British Open, it is the Open Championship of Golf!
>
> To those in the UK, sure... pretty much everywhere else... no.
>
> I'm not from the UK, and evryone in mainland Europe calls it the Open,
> it's like we call the MBA finals the World Series even if it has nothing
> to do with The World. It's also like americans naming a game thats played
> with the hands most of the time Football instead of naming the real thing
> Football.
MBA World Series? Wouldn't that be an interesting sporting event, competed
in by only business professionals with MBAs.
John B.
> "Jan Van Gerwen" <janbouliwegla...@hotmail.com> wrote in messagenews:j04kba$r1s$1...@dont-email.me...
Not as interesting as the Ph.D. playoffs.
Thomas R. Kettler
<7b44302c-4d10-4b8d...@ft10g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
"John B." <john...@gmail.com> wrote:
That's because the guys playing in the white coats committed more errors
in the field and on the basepaths than the guys in the three-piece suits
this year.
The time that guy got the inside-the-park-grand slam since the Ph. D.
didn't realize the ball landed in his lab coat pocket and he continued
looking for it while the runners scored was classic. That's the only
time someone besides Cool Papa Bell could have a home run on a ball that
never left the infield.
Jan Van Gerwen
>MBA World Series? Wouldn't that be an interesting sporting event, competed
>in by only business professionals with MBAs.
Oops I meant MLB
But you get the picture.
Loudon Briggs
Was deleting some very old messages from another "Golf" List and came
across one that got a lot of feed back at the time. Most opposed my
point of view on the subject... there were several messages prior to
and after this one.
Was I wrong in my interpretation of
QUOTE
I'm sure you have heard the story about the three men who shared a
room in a hotel. The clerk charged them $30 for the room so they each
ponied up $10 and went up to their room. The clerk discovered he had
overcharged them $5. and sent the bellboy up to the room with the
refund. He figured they would never know the difference and kept $2.
He gave each man back $1. which meant the amount each paid was reduced
to $9.00. Three times $9 is $27, plus the $2 the bellboy kept equals
$29... what happened to the other dollar? :)
Back to the 18th century and info about St. Andrews and why we have 18
hole courses... on a well known website, I saw the following excerpt
from A History of Golf, by Louis T. Stanley.
Quote: The twenty-two-hole course began near the Martyr's Mound. In
1764 the Royal and Ancient Club passed a resolution that the first
four holes should be converted into two, a change that reduced the
round to eighteen.
Unquote
Am I missing something here or do we have a situation as difficult to
fathom as the $1 conundrum above? Perhaps courses worldwide will have
to acquire an additional 10 acres or so, for the two extra holes we
should have been playing all these years.
UNQUOTE
The problem... if you take 4 from 22, you're left with 18 but, if you
convert those first 4 to 2 and add them back, you actually end up with
20 holes.
Was I wrong in my interpretation of the original statement from Mr.
Stanley's book? Just something to ponder! :)
Loudon Briggs
>
>Was deleting some very old messages from another "Golf" List and came
>across one that got a lot of feed back at the time. Most opposed my
>point of view on the subject... there were several messages prior to
>and after this one.
>
>Was I wrong in my interpretation of
I asked mygolfing son-in-law and he showed me therror of my ways.
He showed me where the original course only had 11 holes, played out
and back for 22 holes. What they did was take 4 holes (leaving 7) and
turned those 4 into two, added them to the 7 and had 9 holes. The
second 9 holes came later. (and I thought I knew all about gowf) :)
johnty
England gloms onto Scotland when it suits them.
>
Loudon Briggs
me... my grandfather was Scottish and he used the term, so I went and
looked it up, Lo and behold...
Origin: earlier glaum from Scottish dialect, probably from Gaelic
glaim, ..
Now we both know. :)