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Ashes 3-0.
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jack fredricks
Dec 27, 2021, 7:58:40 PM12/27/21
to
Goodness... what a waste of time.
The only batsman that deserves his spot is Root.
The keeper can't keep.
The spinner is no good.
The quicks are... the least of our worries. Good enough.
I don't recall seeing an English team so abject.
I also don't recall seeing so much talk about how bad the team is and how badly the cricket institutions in England are failing to produce good quality cricketers. There's always been mutterings, but not to this extent.
I expect an announcement shortly into a review of state of the game in England. And of course no changes to be made.
The only batsman that deserves his spot is Root.
The keeper can't keep.
The spinner is no good.
The quicks are... the least of our worries. Good enough.
I don't recall seeing an English team so abject.
I also don't recall seeing so much talk about how bad the team is and how badly the cricket institutions in England are failing to produce good quality cricketers. There's always been mutterings, but not to this extent.
I expect an announcement shortly into a review of state of the game in England. And of course no changes to be made.
alvey
Dec 27, 2021, 8:21:44 PM12/27/21
to
players, who'd want to go there atm? I wonder if we'll hear any more on the
thought bubble that floated out of the VCA yesterday about how Test 4 & 5
"should be played at the MCG"?
I'm not going to join in the, "This is the worst England side ever" chorus
as my opinion is that anything played in the Covid Era should be regarded
purely (and thankfully) as entertainment, and *not* a serious part of the
games' history.
alvey
--
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FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
Dec 27, 2021, 8:26:18 PM12/27/21
to
NO FIGHT, abject surrender.
Compare with HOW India FOUGHT BACK last year in Australia AFTER being
Humiliated and bowled out for 36 at Adelaide.
India FOUGHT BACK like WARRIORS, DOMINATED and won Boxing day test at
Melbourne, PANT ALMOST won the Sydney test, and CREATED History by
WINNING Gabba test and winning the SERIES 2-1 of a 4 match series.
An Australian White lady actually wrote a letter to Sydney Morning
Herald that she ROOTED for India against her own team at Gabba because
of the WARRIOR SPIRIT and MENTAL STRENGTH displayed by Indian Team.
That's how much she was IMPRESSED by Indian team's BRAVERY of getting
HIT on the BODY (like body line series) and STILL FIGHTING to WIN.
FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
Dec 27, 2021, 8:31:12 PM12/27/21
to
NO EXCUSES.
England has NO fighting spirit and bravery displayed by the Indian team
exactly at the same time last year in Melbourne Boxing day test, AFTER
getting HUMILIATED by getting bowled out for 36 at Adelaide.
Will Sutton
Dec 27, 2021, 8:50:18 PM12/27/21
to
>
> NO EXCUSES.
>
> England has NO fighting spirit and bravery displayed by the Indian team
> exactly at the same time last year in Melbourne Boxing day test, AFTER
> getting HUMILIATED by getting bowled out for 36 at Adelaide.
Mike Holmans
Dec 27, 2021, 9:47:39 PM12/27/21
to
On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 11:21:42 +1000, alvey <al...@is.invalid> wrote:
>On Mon, 27 Dec 2021 16:58:39 -0800 (PST), jack fredricks wrote:
>
>> Goodness... what a waste of time.
>>
>> The only batsman that deserves his spot is Root.
>> The keeper can't keep.
>> The spinner is no good.
>> The quicks are... the least of our worries. Good enough.
>>
>> I don't recall seeing an English team so abject.
>> I also don't recall seeing so much talk about how bad the team is and how badly the cricket institutions in England are failing to produce good quality cricketers. There's always been mutterings, but not to this extent.
>> I expect an announcement shortly into a review of state of the game in England. And of course no changes to be made.
jzf's memory is clearly very short indeed. The capitulation in 2006-7
>On Mon, 27 Dec 2021 16:58:39 -0800 (PST), jack fredricks wrote:
>
>> Goodness... what a waste of time.
>>
>> The only batsman that deserves his spot is Root.
>> The keeper can't keep.
>> The spinner is no good.
>> The quicks are... the least of our worries. Good enough.
>>
>> I don't recall seeing an English team so abject.
>> I also don't recall seeing so much talk about how bad the team is and how badly the cricket institutions in England are failing to produce good quality cricketers. There's always been mutterings, but not to this extent.
>> I expect an announcement shortly into a review of state of the game in England. And of course no changes to be made.
was even more abject, and the usual massed suspects wheeled out their
usual hobby horses to demand radical restructuring. Cooler heads
prevailed, a few minor tweaks were made and England returned four
years later and won handsomely.
The most likely set of changes to come is unrelated to the Ashes. In
the wake of the Rafiq case and the subsequent inquests, I'd expect to
see some rather greater efforts to be made to tap into the 30-40% of
the talent pool that our resident racist would like to ignore.
>
>It wouldn't be a surprise if the tour is abandoned, aside from the Sinney
>players, who'd want to go there atm? I wonder if we'll hear any more on the
>thought bubble that floated out of the VCA yesterday about how Test 4 & 5
>"should be played at the MCG"?
>
>I'm not going to join in the, "This is the worst England side ever" chorus
>as my opinion is that anything played in the Covid Era should be regarded
>purely (and thankfully) as entertainment, and *not* a serious part of the
>games' history.
join a chorus of "this is the worst England team ever", because it
isn't.
Cheers,
Mike
Hamish Laws
Dec 27, 2021, 10:04:21 PM12/27/21
to
On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 1:47:39 PM UTC+11, Mike Holmans wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 11:21:42 +1000, alvey <al...@is.invalid> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 27 Dec 2021 16:58:39 -0800 (PST), jack fredricks wrote:
> >
> >> Goodness... what a waste of time.
> >>
> >> The only batsman that deserves his spot is Root.
> >> The keeper can't keep.
> >> The spinner is no good.
> >> The quicks are... the least of our worries. Good enough.
> >>
> >> I don't recall seeing an English team so abject.
> >> I also don't recall seeing so much talk about how bad the team is and how badly the cricket institutions in England are failing to produce good quality cricketers. There's always been mutterings, but not to this extent.
> >> I expect an announcement shortly into a review of state of the game in England. And of course no changes to be made.
> jzf's memory is clearly very short indeed. The capitulation in 2006-7
> was even more abject, and the usual massed suspects wheeled out their
> usual hobby horses to demand radical restructuring. Cooler heads
> prevailed, a few minor tweaks were made and England returned four
> years later and won handsomely.
I would say that might have had a little bit to do with McGrath, Warne, Langer, Hayden, Gilchrist, Symonds & Clark being there in 2006-7 and not in 2010-11, although to be fair Watson was one of the few performers with the bat for Australia in 2010-11 with 4 50s and an average of 48
> On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 11:21:42 +1000, alvey <al...@is.invalid> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 27 Dec 2021 16:58:39 -0800 (PST), jack fredricks wrote:
> >
> >> Goodness... what a waste of time.
> >>
> >> The only batsman that deserves his spot is Root.
> >> The keeper can't keep.
> >> The spinner is no good.
> >> The quicks are... the least of our worries. Good enough.
> >>
> >> I don't recall seeing an English team so abject.
> >> I also don't recall seeing so much talk about how bad the team is and how badly the cricket institutions in England are failing to produce good quality cricketers. There's always been mutterings, but not to this extent.
> >> I expect an announcement shortly into a review of state of the game in England. And of course no changes to be made.
> jzf's memory is clearly very short indeed. The capitulation in 2006-7
> was even more abject, and the usual massed suspects wheeled out their
> usual hobby horses to demand radical restructuring. Cooler heads
> prevailed, a few minor tweaks were made and England returned four
> years later and won handsomely.
jack fredricks
Dec 27, 2021, 10:06:22 PM12/27/21
to
On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 12:47:39 PM UTC+10, Mike Holmans wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 11:21:42 +1000, alvey <al...@is.invalid> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 27 Dec 2021 16:58:39 -0800 (PST), jack fredricks wrote:
> >
> >> Goodness... what a waste of time.
> >>
> >> The only batsman that deserves his spot is Root.
> >> The keeper can't keep.
> >> The spinner is no good.
> >> The quicks are... the least of our worries. Good enough.
> >>
> >> I don't recall seeing an English team so abject.
> >> I also don't recall seeing so much talk about how bad the team is and how badly the cricket institutions in England are failing to produce good quality cricketers. There's always been mutterings, but not to this extent.
> >> I expect an announcement shortly into a review of state of the game in England. And of course no changes to be made.
> jzf's memory is clearly very short indeed. The capitulation in 2006-7
> was even more abject, and the usual massed suspects wheeled out their
> usual hobby horses to demand radical restructuring. Cooler heads
> prevailed, a few minor tweaks were made and England returned four
> years later and won handsomely.
Just a week ago we discussed the 2006 tour. I don't think it was as bad. We showed some fight. I also think our 2006 team would crush this 2021 team.
> On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 11:21:42 +1000, alvey <al...@is.invalid> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 27 Dec 2021 16:58:39 -0800 (PST), jack fredricks wrote:
> >
> >> Goodness... what a waste of time.
> >>
> >> The only batsman that deserves his spot is Root.
> >> The keeper can't keep.
> >> The spinner is no good.
> >> The quicks are... the least of our worries. Good enough.
> >>
> >> I don't recall seeing an English team so abject.
> >> I also don't recall seeing so much talk about how bad the team is and how badly the cricket institutions in England are failing to produce good quality cricketers. There's always been mutterings, but not to this extent.
> >> I expect an announcement shortly into a review of state of the game in England. And of course no changes to be made.
> jzf's memory is clearly very short indeed. The capitulation in 2006-7
> was even more abject, and the usual massed suspects wheeled out their
> usual hobby horses to demand radical restructuring. Cooler heads
> prevailed, a few minor tweaks were made and England returned four
> years later and won handsomely.
You're delusional if you think KP, Cook, Strauss, Bell, Flintoff, Collingwood, Giles, Harmison, Anderson are a worse team than the muck currently touring.
jack fredricks
Dec 27, 2021, 10:07:44 PM12/27/21
to
On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 1:06:22 PM UTC+10, jack fredricks wrote:
> Just a week ago we discussed the 2006 tour. I don't think it was as bad. We showed some fight. I also think our 2006 team would crush this 2021 team.
To clarify: I think in some ways it was worse due to the much higher expectations.
> Just a week ago we discussed the 2006 tour. I don't think it was as bad. We showed some fight. I also think our 2006 team would crush this 2021 team.
The 2006 team would kill this 2021 team.
Mike Holmans
Dec 27, 2021, 10:15:26 PM12/27/21
to
over four years. That's sort of why series are a few years apart. A
few of the players in this series will be in the teams in four years
time; probably most won't. Australia will probably be favourites given
their home advantage, but I've very little idea who will be playing
for England then, let alone Australia.
Cheers,
Mike
FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
Dec 27, 2021, 11:18:26 PM12/27/21
to
than Melbourne.
Do you remember how many hits Indian batsmen took on their bodies?
So that's not an excuse for England "meekly caving in".
Moreover, England already played TWO TESTS before Melbourne.
Which means they DIDN'T make ANY adjustments and improvements.
FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
Dec 28, 2021, 2:38:58 AM12/28/21
to
Not even open for debate.
Will Sutton
Dec 28, 2021, 2:56:53 AM12/28/21
to
I think they need to start thinking about the primary importance of a wicketkeeper? You need a keeper that will take ALL the easy catches and the majority of the hard ones.
Also as for openers.....well they all suck so pick the best fieldsmen from the candidates. The difference between the Australian 1st innings and the English one at the MCG was the openers
jack fredricks
Dec 28, 2021, 3:14:35 AM12/28/21
to
On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 5:38:58 PM UTC+10, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:
> > You're delusional if you think KP, Cook, Strauss, Bell, Flintoff, Collingwood, Giles, Harmison, Anderson are a worse team than the muck currently touring.
> Yes, that 2006 team is better than this 2021 team.
> Not even open for debate.
No one in a billion years, other than MH (whose logic abandons him when he's angry), would argue the 2021 team is better than the 2006 team *on paper*.
> > You're delusional if you think KP, Cook, Strauss, Bell, Flintoff, Collingwood, Giles, Harmison, Anderson are a worse team than the muck currently touring.
> Yes, that 2006 team is better than this 2021 team.
> Not even open for debate.
One might debate the performances, though.
2006 had a 206 from Collingwood, and tons from KP and Cook. Plus 10 50s. Hoggard got 7/109 one match. Panesar took 8 wickets in one match.
This 2021 series? /looksaroundatnothing
Hamish Laws
Dec 28, 2021, 4:17:58 AM12/28/21
to
On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 7:14:35 PM UTC+11, jzfre...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 5:38:58 PM UTC+10, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:
> > > You're delusional if you think KP, Cook, Strauss, Bell, Flintoff, Collingwood, Giles, Harmison, Anderson are a worse team than the muck currently touring.
> > Yes, that 2006 team is better than this 2021 team.
> > Not even open for debate.
> No one in a billion years, other than MH (whose logic abandons him when he's angry), would argue the 2021 team is better than the 2006 team *on paper*.
>
Not what he said
> On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 5:38:58 PM UTC+10, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:
> > > You're delusional if you think KP, Cook, Strauss, Bell, Flintoff, Collingwood, Giles, Harmison, Anderson are a worse team than the muck currently touring.
> > Yes, that 2006 team is better than this 2021 team.
> > Not even open for debate.
> No one in a billion years, other than MH (whose logic abandons him when he's angry), would argue the 2021 team is better than the 2006 team *on paper*.
>
" The capitulation in 2006-7 was even more abject"
In Brisbane Aus made 804-10 in the match, England 157 & 370
Adelaide England were rolled for 129 in their second innings to give Aus an easy target
Perth Aus 244 & 527/5, Eng 215 & 350
Melbourne Eng 159 & 161, Aus 419
Sydney Eng 291 & 147, Aus 393 &B 46/0
jack fredricks
Dec 28, 2021, 4:22:47 AM12/28/21
to
On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 7:17:58 PM UTC+10, Hamish Laws wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 7:14:35 PM UTC+11, jzfre...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 5:38:58 PM UTC+10, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:
> > > > You're delusional if you think KP, Cook, Strauss, Bell, Flintoff, Collingwood, Giles, Harmison, Anderson are a worse team than the muck currently touring.
> > > Yes, that 2006 team is better than this 2021 team.
> > > Not even open for debate.
> > No one in a billion years, other than MH (whose logic abandons him when he's angry), would argue the 2021 team is better than the 2006 team *on paper*.
> Not what he said
If one wants an interesting discussion, don't come to uk.sport.cricket....
> On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 7:14:35 PM UTC+11, jzfre...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 5:38:58 PM UTC+10, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:
> > > > You're delusional if you think KP, Cook, Strauss, Bell, Flintoff, Collingwood, Giles, Harmison, Anderson are a worse team than the muck currently touring.
> > > Yes, that 2006 team is better than this 2021 team.
> > > Not even open for debate.
> > No one in a billion years, other than MH (whose logic abandons him when he's angry), would argue the 2021 team is better than the 2006 team *on paper*.
> Not what he said
Robbert ter Hart
Dec 28, 2021, 7:01:39 AM12/28/21
to
Op dinsdag 28 december 2021 om 01:58:40 UTC+1 schreef jzfre...@gmail.com:
A few months ago, I read an interesting analysis, pointing out that Eoin Morgan has produced a very successful limited-overs team, and Joe Root a very average Test team, with both drawing on essentially the same pool of players. The conclusion here is that Root is not a very good captain, and not able to instill in his players the right mentality to succeed in Test cricket. I find this idea very appealing.
RtH
> Goodness... what a waste of time.
>
> The only batsman that deserves his spot is Root.
> The keeper can't keep.
> The spinner is no good.
> The quicks are... the least of our worries. Good enough.
>
> I don't recall seeing an English team so abject.
> I also don't recall seeing so much talk about how bad the team is and how badly the cricket institutions in England are failing to produce good quality cricketers. There's always been mutterings, but not to this extent.
England has produced some very good limited-overs cricketers of late. This is a big difference with the 1990s, when England were rubbish at the one-day stuff as well as Tests.
>
> The only batsman that deserves his spot is Root.
> The keeper can't keep.
> The spinner is no good.
> The quicks are... the least of our worries. Good enough.
>
> I don't recall seeing an English team so abject.
> I also don't recall seeing so much talk about how bad the team is and how badly the cricket institutions in England are failing to produce good quality cricketers. There's always been mutterings, but not to this extent.
A few months ago, I read an interesting analysis, pointing out that Eoin Morgan has produced a very successful limited-overs team, and Joe Root a very average Test team, with both drawing on essentially the same pool of players. The conclusion here is that Root is not a very good captain, and not able to instill in his players the right mentality to succeed in Test cricket. I find this idea very appealing.
RtH
jack fredricks
Dec 28, 2021, 7:49:17 AM12/28/21
to
On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 10:01:39 PM UTC+10, rter...@gmail.com wrote:
> England has produced some very good limited-overs cricketers of late. This is a big difference with the 1990s, when England were rubbish at the one-day stuff as well as Tests.
> A few months ago, I read an interesting analysis, pointing out that Eoin Morgan has produced a very successful limited-overs team, and Joe Root a very average Test team, with both drawing on essentially the same pool of players. The conclusion here is that Root is not a very good captain, and not able to instill in his players the right mentality to succeed in Test cricket. I find this idea very appealing.
Or, perhaps, the flaws are more exposed in Test matches.
> England has produced some very good limited-overs cricketers of late. This is a big difference with the 1990s, when England were rubbish at the one-day stuff as well as Tests.
> A few months ago, I read an interesting analysis, pointing out that Eoin Morgan has produced a very successful limited-overs team, and Joe Root a very average Test team, with both drawing on essentially the same pool of players. The conclusion here is that Root is not a very good captain, and not able to instill in his players the right mentality to succeed in Test cricket. I find this idea very appealing.
I personally think Root is almost flawless. This rabble is not his fault.
David North
Dec 28, 2021, 8:00:32 AM12/28/21
to
On 28/12/2021 09:17, Hamish Laws wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 7:14:35 PM UTC+11, jzfre...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 5:38:58 PM UTC+10, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:
>>>> You're delusional if you think KP, Cook, Strauss, Bell, Flintoff, Collingwood, Giles, Harmison, Anderson are a worse team than the muck currently touring.
>>> Yes, that 2006 team is better than this 2021 team.
>>> Not even open for debate.
>> No one in a billion years, other than MH (whose logic abandons him when he's angry), would argue the 2021 team is better than the 2006 team *on paper*.
>>
> Not what he said
> " The capitulation in 2006-7 was even more abject"
>
> In Brisbane Aus made 804-10 in the match, England 157 & 370
Aus got a lead of 278 this time. Once you're that far behind, I don't
> On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 7:14:35 PM UTC+11, jzfre...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 5:38:58 PM UTC+10, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:
>>>> You're delusional if you think KP, Cook, Strauss, Bell, Flintoff, Collingwood, Giles, Harmison, Anderson are a worse team than the muck currently touring.
>>> Yes, that 2006 team is better than this 2021 team.
>>> Not even open for debate.
>> No one in a billion years, other than MH (whose logic abandons him when he's angry), would argue the 2021 team is better than the 2006 team *on paper*.
>>
> Not what he said
> " The capitulation in 2006-7 was even more abject"
>
> In Brisbane Aus made 804-10 in the match, England 157 & 370
think an extra 167 makes anywhere near as much difference in practice as
it does on paper, and the 202/1d in the 2nd innings was even more
immaterial.
> Adelaide England were rolled for 129 in their second innings to give Aus an easy target
they did make a complete mess of the 5th. This time, they were barely in
it by the end of Day 1.
> Perth Aus 244 & 527/5, Eng 215 & 350
> Melbourne Eng 159 & 161, Aus 419
time. The Hayden/Symonds stand of 279 took England out of the game a bit
earlier, but the end result wasn't vastly different.
> Sydney Eng 291 & 147, Aus 393 &B 46/0
are as close on first innings as Sydney and Perth were in 2006/07, it'll
be an improvement on most of what we've seen so far.
--
David North
Mike Holmans
Dec 28, 2021, 8:10:30 AM12/28/21
to
On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 04:01:38 -0800 (PST), Robbert ter Hart
<rter...@gmail.com> wrote:
>A few months ago, I read an interesting analysis, pointing out that Eoin Morgan has produced a very successful limited-overs team, and Joe Root a very average Test team, with both drawing on essentially the same pool of players. The conclusion here is that Root is not a very good captain, and not able to instill in his players the right mentality to succeed in Test cricket. I find this idea very appealing.
I'm trying to remember if I ever thought that Root captaining England
<rter...@gmail.com> wrote:
>A few months ago, I read an interesting analysis, pointing out that Eoin Morgan has produced a very successful limited-overs team, and Joe Root a very average Test team, with both drawing on essentially the same pool of players. The conclusion here is that Root is not a very good captain, and not able to instill in his players the right mentality to succeed in Test cricket. I find this idea very appealing.
was a good idea. I don't think I did, although I may have acknowledged
that appointing anyone else didn't make much sense because they were
liable to be dropped. It reminds me of when Tendulkar was captain of
India because he was the only good player; he too was a rubbish
captain.
Cheers,
Mike
Mike Holmans
Dec 28, 2021, 8:23:25 AM12/28/21
to
part of his career - he didn't emerge as a good England bowler until
2008. Bell was still in the phase where people wondered why he was
being selected. Giles was dropped for being dreadful and replaced by
Panesar. Harmison started the series by bowling to second slip and
went downhill from there. Flintoff spent the entire series drunk and
was even worse than Root as a captain (Root is merely uninspiring,
whereas Flintoff was actively bad). Collingwood was never a worthwhile
Test player, though he was very good as a white-ball captain. Cook was
still very new.
KP and Strauss were then the players who were performing at the level
their names superficially suggest. The rest were not yet good, past
the time they were good, or weren't ever that good at Test cricket
however fondly their one-day achievements are remembered.
Cheers,
Mike
David North
Dec 28, 2021, 10:49:45 AM12/28/21
to
On 28/12/2021 13:23, Mike Holmans wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 01:17:57 -0800 (PST), Hamish Laws
> <hamis...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 7:14:35 PM UTC+11, jzfre...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 5:38:58 PM UTC+10, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:
>>>>> You're delusional if you think KP, Cook, Strauss, Bell, Flintoff, Collingwood, Giles, Harmison, Anderson are a worse team than the muck currently touring.
>>>> Yes, that 2006 team is better than this 2021 team.
>>>> Not even open for debate.
>>> No one in a billion years, other than MH (whose logic abandons him when he's angry), would argue the 2021 team is better than the 2006 team *on paper*.
>>>
>> Not what he said
>> " The capitulation in 2006-7 was even more abject"
>>
>> In Brisbane Aus made 804-10 in the match, England 157 & 370
>> Adelaide England were rolled for 129 in their second innings to give Aus an easy target
>> Perth Aus 244 & 527/5, Eng 215 & 350
>> Melbourne Eng 159 & 161, Aus 419
>> Sydney Eng 291 & 147, Aus 393 &B 46/0
>
> Listing the players doesn't tell you much. Anderson was in the early
> part of his career - he didn't emerge as a good England bowler until
> 2008.
Agreed
> On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 01:17:57 -0800 (PST), Hamish Laws
> <hamis...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 7:14:35 PM UTC+11, jzfre...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 5:38:58 PM UTC+10, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:
>>>>> You're delusional if you think KP, Cook, Strauss, Bell, Flintoff, Collingwood, Giles, Harmison, Anderson are a worse team than the muck currently touring.
>>>> Yes, that 2006 team is better than this 2021 team.
>>>> Not even open for debate.
>>> No one in a billion years, other than MH (whose logic abandons him when he's angry), would argue the 2021 team is better than the 2006 team *on paper*.
>>>
>> Not what he said
>> " The capitulation in 2006-7 was even more abject"
>>
>> In Brisbane Aus made 804-10 in the match, England 157 & 370
>> Adelaide England were rolled for 129 in their second innings to give Aus an easy target
>> Perth Aus 244 & 527/5, Eng 215 & 350
>> Melbourne Eng 159 & 161, Aus 419
>> Sydney Eng 291 & 147, Aus 393 &B 46/0
>
> Listing the players doesn't tell you much. Anderson was in the early
> part of his career - he didn't emerge as a good England bowler until
> 2008.
> Bell was still in the phase where people wondered why he was
> being selected.
series.
> Giles was dropped for being dreadful and replaced by
> Panesar. Harmison started the series by bowling to second slip and
> went downhill from there. Flintoff spent the entire series drunk and
> was even worse than Root as a captain (Root is merely uninspiring,
> whereas Flintoff was actively bad). Collingwood was never a worthwhile
> Test player,
what does that make most of the current batsmen? He was also a good fielder.
> though he was very good as a white-ball captain. Cook was
> still very new.
Crawley and nearly as many as Malan at almost double the average of
both, and twice as many as Hameed (all pre-Ashes).
> KP and Strauss were then the players who were performing at the level
> their names superficially suggest. The rest were not yet good, past
> the time they were good, or weren't ever that good at Test cricket
> however fondly their one-day achievements are remembered.
I'd take the top 6 from then over the current line-up any day (despite
Root).
--
David North
David North
Dec 28, 2021, 11:12:35 AM12/28/21
to
On 28/12/2021 12:01, Robbert ter Hart wrote:
> Op dinsdag 28 december 2021 om 01:58:40 UTC+1 schreef jzfre...@gmail.com:
>> Goodness... what a waste of time.
>>
>> The only batsman that deserves his spot is Root.
>> The keeper can't keep.
>> The spinner is no good.
>> The quicks are... the least of our worries. Good enough.
>>
>> I don't recall seeing an English team so abject.
>> I also don't recall seeing so much talk about how bad the team is and how badly the cricket institutions in England are failing to produce good quality cricketers. There's always been mutterings, but not to this extent.
>
> England has produced some very good limited-overs cricketers of late. This is a big difference with the 1990s, when England were rubbish at the one-day stuff as well as Tests.
>
> A few months ago, I read an interesting analysis, pointing out that Eoin Morgan has produced a very successful limited-overs team, and Joe Root a very average Test team, with both drawing on essentially the same pool of players. The conclusion here is that Root is not a very good captain, and not able to instill in his players the right mentality to succeed in Test cricket. I find this idea very appealing.
I doubt that Morgan could conjure a good Test batting side out of what's
> Op dinsdag 28 december 2021 om 01:58:40 UTC+1 schreef jzfre...@gmail.com:
>> Goodness... what a waste of time.
>>
>> The only batsman that deserves his spot is Root.
>> The keeper can't keep.
>> The spinner is no good.
>> The quicks are... the least of our worries. Good enough.
>>
>> I don't recall seeing an English team so abject.
>> I also don't recall seeing so much talk about how bad the team is and how badly the cricket institutions in England are failing to produce good quality cricketers. There's always been mutterings, but not to this extent.
>
> England has produced some very good limited-overs cricketers of late. This is a big difference with the 1990s, when England were rubbish at the one-day stuff as well as Tests.
>
> A few months ago, I read an interesting analysis, pointing out that Eoin Morgan has produced a very successful limited-overs team, and Joe Root a very average Test team, with both drawing on essentially the same pool of players. The conclusion here is that Root is not a very good captain, and not able to instill in his players the right mentality to succeed in Test cricket. I find this idea very appealing.
available. He couldn't make a good Test batsman of himself for a start.
--
David North
Mike Holmans
Dec 28, 2021, 11:20:07 AM12/28/21
to
On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 15:49:41 +0000, David North
<nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>I'd certainly take the current bowling attack over the 2006/07 one, but
>I'd take the top 6 from then over the current line-up any day (despite
>Root).
I'm somewhat biased. I tend to get more depressed watching bowlers
<nos...@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>I'd certainly take the current bowling attack over the 2006/07 one, but
>I'd take the top 6 from then over the current line-up any day (despite
>Root).
toiling pointlessly away until the batsmen get bored than by watching
batsmen fail. Since you can't win Tests without taking wickets, having
a toothless set of bowlers sends me into the pit of despair, whereas
having rotten batsmen is merely disappointing.
I'm basically happy with our bowling stocks and can see a new
generation of good ones emerging.
I don't see that happening with batsmen at the moment. We have some
fantastically talented white-ball batsmen: the real question is
whether the likes of Livingstone can acquire the discipline to play
long innings. If Chris Gayle could score Test triple hundreds, I don't
really see why Livingstone couldn't if he put his mind to it.
Cheers,
Mike
Mike Holmans
Dec 28, 2021, 12:01:10 PM12/28/21
to
On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 16:20:01 +0000, Mike Holmans <sp...@jackalope.uk>
wrote:
>I don't see that happening with batsmen at the moment. We have some
>fantastically talented white-ball batsmen: the real question is
>whether the likes of Livingstone can acquire the discipline to play
>long innings. If Chris Gayle could score Test triple hundreds, I don't
>really see why Livingstone couldn't if he put his mind to it.
Sort of apropos:
I'm watching this morning's BBL game, and the commentators are waxing
lyrical about Sam Billings as a senior overseas player and what he
brings to the team, suggesting that he's batting his way into the Test
team, and how he's improved his game over the last couple of years by
listening to Ricky Ponting coaching him in the IPL and modelling his
stance on Virat Kohli.
We are producing white-ball players of very high quality by the
truckload. There is no shortage of talented cricketers.
The puzzle is how to develop some of that raw talent into good
red-ball play.
Cheers,
Mike
wrote:
>I don't see that happening with batsmen at the moment. We have some
>fantastically talented white-ball batsmen: the real question is
>whether the likes of Livingstone can acquire the discipline to play
>long innings. If Chris Gayle could score Test triple hundreds, I don't
>really see why Livingstone couldn't if he put his mind to it.
I'm watching this morning's BBL game, and the commentators are waxing
lyrical about Sam Billings as a senior overseas player and what he
brings to the team, suggesting that he's batting his way into the Test
team, and how he's improved his game over the last couple of years by
listening to Ricky Ponting coaching him in the IPL and modelling his
stance on Virat Kohli.
We are producing white-ball players of very high quality by the
truckload. There is no shortage of talented cricketers.
The puzzle is how to develop some of that raw talent into good
red-ball play.
Cheers,
Mike
mike
Dec 28, 2021, 12:26:50 PM12/28/21
to
On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 1:21:44 AM UTC, alvey wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Dec 2021 16:58:39 -0800 (PST), jack fredricks wrote:
>
> > Goodness... what a waste of time.
most ball games are. i think it was the mayans who used to execute the losing team
> On Mon, 27 Dec 2021 16:58:39 -0800 (PST), jack fredricks wrote:
>
> > Goodness... what a waste of time.
or sacrifice them to the Gods. But i doubt it improved team morale.
the trouble is that having had before this match a severe talking to, a brutal chat, an
honest assessment of performances, a resolution to do better etc, and then suffer
an even worse defeat, well theres not a lot one can say, except have another go,
maybe you'll get lucky eventually;) must be a bit demoralising.
> >
> > The only batsman that deserves his spot is Root.
> > The keeper can't keep.
in the summer but he got injured and was out for the whole season. I think he
may be still with the england party.
> > The spinner is no good.
side or were at brisbane, was weird. and each time they chose leach he wasnt
really needed either here or at brisbane, although he might have been some use
at adelaide.
> > The quicks are... the least of our worries. Good enough.
and wood whose pace impressed me so far, cant really be risked to play
consecutive matches in such short intervals. Plus our other fast bowlers are
seriously crocked and may not play red ball for england again.
> >
> > I don't recall seeing an English team so abject.
> > I also don't recall seeing so much talk about how bad the team is and how badly the cricket institutions in England are failing to produce good quality cricketers. There's always been mutterings, but not to this extent.
> > I expect an announcement shortly into a review of state of the game in England. And of course no changes to be made.
batting failures against India [twice] and NZ earlier this year. The decision to stay with
batters who had already failed and had pretty poor records this season was criticised
during the summer, and hoping that they would suddenly recover form against oz with
almost no practice was delusional. But the coaches no doubt preferred to stick with
players they knew already.
The last time we lost 5-0 in 2013, there were retirements mid series and KP was the
scapegoat at the end. supposedly they were going to sort things out so that it never
happened again. huh.
> It wouldn't be a surprise if the tour is abandoned, aside from the Sinney
> players, who'd want to go there atm? I wonder if we'll hear any more on the
> thought bubble that floated out of the VCA yesterday about how Test 4 & 5
> "should be played at the MCG"?
The danger with going to sydney, is that the england team might
sneak off home on a plane ;)
I think England will hope that sydney is abandoned and they go straight to Hobart,
where no one will see them.
>
> I'm not going to join in the, "This is the worst England side ever" chorus
> as my opinion is that anything played in the Covid Era should be regarded
> purely (and thankfully) as entertainment, and *not* a serious part of the
> games' history.
instead.
mike
>
John Hall
Dec 28, 2021, 12:34:44 PM12/28/21
to
In message <779b6f23-bc33-47d9...@googlegroups.com>,
jack fredricks <jzfre...@gmail.com> writes
I think Root may be too nice to be a good captain. He also seems
tactically rather naive.
--
John Hall
"Home is heaven and orgies are vile,
But you *need* an orgy, once in a while."
Ogden Nash (1902-1971)
jack fredricks <jzfre...@gmail.com> writes
tactically rather naive.
--
John Hall
"Home is heaven and orgies are vile,
But you *need* an orgy, once in a while."
Ogden Nash (1902-1971)
John Hall
Dec 28, 2021, 12:44:45 PM12/28/21
to
In message <c6bf955c-0bc8-4ae4...@googlegroups.com>,
mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
[re Buttler]
At the moment, he looks like he would be not only a better keeper than
Buttler but - given Buttler's loss of confidence - a better batting
option too.
mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
[re Buttler]
>well hes had a bad time recently. I think they would have changed him
>for Foakes in the summer but he got injured and was out for the whole
>season. I think he may be still with the england party.
No, he's gone home with the rest of the England A side, unfortunately.
>for Foakes in the summer but he got injured and was out for the whole
>season. I think he may be still with the england party.
At the moment, he looks like he would be not only a better keeper than
Buttler but - given Buttler's loss of confidence - a better batting
option too.
steve hague
Dec 28, 2021, 1:13:52 PM12/28/21
to
On 28/12/2021 12:01, Robbert ter Hart wrote:
Ray Illingworth was a superb captain, tactically astute and a really
good man manager. Geoffrey Boycott was very good at assesing the
conditions of the pitch and the weather. His man manager skills were on
the same level as the avarage hamster. When he was England captain, the
team didn't produce the performances they were capable of. When Brearly
returned, the team played out of their skins. Root is well liked, and
his ability with the bat earns him a good deal of respect, but as a
captain, there's something to be desired. It's hard to see who could
replace him though. Boycott was an automatic choice as a batsman when
available, Brearly wasn't, but his ability to get the best out of the
other ten players over rode his deficiencies with the bat. The problem
England have today is that Brearly would probably have been picked
purely as a batsman, due to the lack of competion. I like Joe Root, he's
a top class batsman and a better offspinner than he thinks he is, but he
doesn't seem to have what it takes to skipper a slightly less than top
class team. I know Michael Vaughan isn't well liked hereabouts, but he
was a very good captain, tactically astute and able to inspire the team.
If there's a player in the CC with great captaincy skills but only
average as a player, I don't know who it is.
Mike Holmans
Dec 28, 2021, 1:20:56 PM12/28/21
to
On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 18:13:49 +0000, steve hague
<steveh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>If there's a player in the CC with great captaincy skills but only
>average as a player, I don't know who it is.
I was impressed with Stokes's captaincy when he took over a neophyte
<steveh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>If there's a player in the CC with great captaincy skills but only
>average as a player, I don't know who it is.
white-ball side. Admittedly, he's not "only average" as a player, but
I'm not sure why that should be a requirement.
Cheers,
Mike
jack fredricks
Dec 28, 2021, 1:51:34 PM12/28/21
to
On Wednesday, December 29, 2021 at 2:20:07 AM UTC+10, Mike Holmans wrote:
> >I'd certainly take the current bowling attack over the 2006/07 one, but
> >I'd take the top 6 from then over the current line-up any day (despite
> >Root).
> I'm somewhat biased. I tend to get more depressed watching bowlers
> toiling pointlessly away until the batsmen get bored than by watching
> batsmen fail. Since you can't win Tests without taking wickets, having
> a toothless set of bowlers sends me into the pit of despair, whereas
> having rotten batsmen is merely disappointing.
So... do you actually think this 2021 team is better *on paper* than the 2006/7 team?
> >I'd certainly take the current bowling attack over the 2006/07 one, but
> >I'd take the top 6 from then over the current line-up any day (despite
> >Root).
> I'm somewhat biased. I tend to get more depressed watching bowlers
> toiling pointlessly away until the batsmen get bored than by watching
> batsmen fail. Since you can't win Tests without taking wickets, having
> a toothless set of bowlers sends me into the pit of despair, whereas
> having rotten batsmen is merely disappointing.
John Hall
Dec 28, 2021, 1:54:48 PM12/28/21
to
In message <i7lmsg5sq7um9bo48...@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
<sp...@jackalope.uk> writes
It would give him a very heavy work load, though. One worries that the
stress of trying to do so much might cause a recurrence of his mental
issue. But he is at least sure of his place in the side for the
foreseeable future, which can't be said of the other leading candidates,
Buttler and Burns.
<sp...@jackalope.uk> writes
stress of trying to do so much might cause a recurrence of his mental
issue. But he is at least sure of his place in the side for the
foreseeable future, which can't be said of the other leading candidates,
Buttler and Burns.
jack fredricks
Dec 28, 2021, 2:08:53 PM12/28/21
to
On Wednesday, December 29, 2021 at 4:54:48 AM UTC+10, John Hall wrote:
> >I was impressed with Stokes's captaincy when he took over a neophyte
> >white-ball side. Admittedly, he's not "only average" as a player, but
> >I'm not sure why that should be a requirement.
> It would give him a very heavy work load, though. One worries that the
> stress of trying to do so much might cause a recurrence of his mental
> issue. But he is at least sure of his place in the side for the
> foreseeable future, which can't be said of the other leading candidates,
> Buttler and Burns.
Burns is a "leading candidate for captaincy"?
> >I was impressed with Stokes's captaincy when he took over a neophyte
> >white-ball side. Admittedly, he's not "only average" as a player, but
> >I'm not sure why that should be a requirement.
> It would give him a very heavy work load, though. One worries that the
> stress of trying to do so much might cause a recurrence of his mental
> issue. But he is at least sure of his place in the side for the
> foreseeable future, which can't be said of the other leading candidates,
> Buttler and Burns.
All hope *is* lost.
John Hall
Dec 28, 2021, 2:54:51 PM12/28/21
to
In message <9b304877-4c7e-41b6...@googlegroups.com>,
jack fredricks <jzfre...@gmail.com> writes
He's about the only current England player with extensive captaincy
experience in the county game, and led Surrey to the Championship in
2018. (And whatever his limitations as a batsman, he has a better record
as a Test opener than just about any opener that England have tried post
Strauss and Cook.)
jack fredricks <jzfre...@gmail.com> writes
experience in the county game, and led Surrey to the Championship in
2018. (And whatever his limitations as a batsman, he has a better record
as a Test opener than just about any opener that England have tried post
Strauss and Cook.)
steve hague
Dec 28, 2021, 3:20:29 PM12/28/21
to
Illingworth and Imran Khan (I wonder what happened to him after his
cricket career) were exceptions, but I wouldn't want to put additional
pressure on Stokes, given how important his batting and bowling are to
England. Only average isn't important, I was just wondering if there may
be someone who hasn't been particularly succesful with bat or ball who
is good captaincy material, but I remember the full horror of Chris
Cowdrey beeing selected as England skipper, presumably because of his
surname, but Gooch was a good captain, and the responsibility didn't
damage him as a player. Brearly was only average as a player, but his
captaincy skills more than made up for that. Vaughan was a very good
captain, but his batting declined when he got the job. You don't really
know until the player's had the role for a while.
Steve Hague
steve hague
Dec 28, 2021, 3:24:20 PM12/28/21
to
On 28/12/2021 18:46, John Hall wrote:
> In message <i7lmsg5sq7um9bo48...@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
> <sp...@jackalope.uk> writes
>> On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 18:13:49 +0000, steve hague
>> <steveh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> If there's a player in the CC with great captaincy skills but only
>>> average as a player, I don't know who it is.
>>
>> I was impressed with Stokes's captaincy when he took over a neophyte
>> white-ball side. Admittedly, he's not "only average" as a player, but
>> I'm not sure why that should be a requirement.
>
> It would give him a very heavy work load, though. One worries that the
> stress of trying to do so much might cause a recurrence of his mental
> issue. But he is at least sure of his place in the side for the
> foreseeable future, which can't be said of the other leading candidates,
> Buttler and Burns.
Burns? Is that Mr Burns from The Simpsons? Perhaps Smithers could keep
> In message <i7lmsg5sq7um9bo48...@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
> <sp...@jackalope.uk> writes
>> On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 18:13:49 +0000, steve hague
>> <steveh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> If there's a player in the CC with great captaincy skills but only
>>> average as a player, I don't know who it is.
>>
>> I was impressed with Stokes's captaincy when he took over a neophyte
>> white-ball side. Admittedly, he's not "only average" as a player, but
>> I'm not sure why that should be a requirement.
>
> It would give him a very heavy work load, though. One worries that the
> stress of trying to do so much might cause a recurrence of his mental
> issue. But he is at least sure of his place in the side for the
> foreseeable future, which can't be said of the other leading candidates,
> Buttler and Burns.
wicket to him.
alvey
Dec 28, 2021, 4:03:44 PM12/28/21
to
On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 18:46:35 +0000, John Hall wrote:
> In message <i7lmsg5sq7um9bo48...@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
> <sp...@jackalope.uk> writes
>>On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 18:13:49 +0000, steve hague
>><steveh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>If there's a player in the CC with great captaincy skills but only
>>>average as a player, I don't know who it is.
>>
>>I was impressed with Stokes's captaincy when he took over a neophyte
>>white-ball side. Admittedly, he's not "only average" as a player, but
>>I'm not sure why that should be a requirement.
>
> It would give him a very heavy work load, though. One worries that the
> stress of trying to do so much might cause a recurrence of his mental
> issue. But he is at least sure of his place in the side for the
> foreseeable future, which can't be said of the other leading candidates,
> Buttler and Burns.
The biggest advantage that Burns has is the shedloads of time he'd have to
> In message <i7lmsg5sq7um9bo48...@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
> <sp...@jackalope.uk> writes
>>On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 18:13:49 +0000, steve hague
>><steveh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>If there's a player in the CC with great captaincy skills but only
>>>average as a player, I don't know who it is.
>>
>>I was impressed with Stokes's captaincy when he took over a neophyte
>>white-ball side. Admittedly, he's not "only average" as a player, but
>>I'm not sure why that should be a requirement.
>
> It would give him a very heavy work load, though. One worries that the
> stress of trying to do so much might cause a recurrence of his mental
> issue. But he is at least sure of his place in the side for the
> foreseeable future, which can't be said of the other leading candidates,
> Buttler and Burns.
analyse & plan while his side is batting...
alvey
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
mike
Dec 28, 2021, 5:12:22 PM12/28/21
to
On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 9:03:44 PM UTC, alvey wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 18:46:35 +0000, John Hall wrote:
>
> > In message <i7lmsg5sq7um9bo48...@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
> > <sp...@jackalope.uk> writes
> >>On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 18:13:49 +0000, steve hague
> >><steveh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>If there's a player in the CC with great captaincy skills but only
> >>>average as a player, I don't know who it is.
> >>
> >>I was impressed with Stokes's captaincy when he took over a neophyte
> >>white-ball side. Admittedly, he's not "only average" as a player, but
> >>I'm not sure why that should be a requirement.
> >
> > It would give him a very heavy work load, though. One worries that the
> > stress of trying to do so much might cause a recurrence of his mental
> > issue. But he is at least sure of his place in the side for the
> > foreseeable future, which can't be said of the other leading candidates,
> > Buttler and Burns.
well Stokes is vice capt ATM, but as hes injury prone and often misses games
> On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 18:46:35 +0000, John Hall wrote:
>
> > In message <i7lmsg5sq7um9bo48...@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
> > <sp...@jackalope.uk> writes
> >>On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 18:13:49 +0000, steve hague
> >><steveh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>If there's a player in the CC with great captaincy skills but only
> >>>average as a player, I don't know who it is.
> >>
> >>I was impressed with Stokes's captaincy when he took over a neophyte
> >>white-ball side. Admittedly, he's not "only average" as a player, but
> >>I'm not sure why that should be a requirement.
> >
> > It would give him a very heavy work load, though. One worries that the
> > stress of trying to do so much might cause a recurrence of his mental
> > issue. But he is at least sure of his place in the side for the
> > foreseeable future, which can't be said of the other leading candidates,
> > Buttler and Burns.
they would have to have a good VC whose place is secure, which could only
be Root ;)
However no ones mentioned Malan and although his place isnt that secure,
i think he did captain middlesex for 2 seasons so that would make him more
experienced than anyone else, plus i think msex were pretty rubbish then,
so he would be used to being in charge of a shite team. of course he got so
fed up that he skipped off to yorkshire to find success.
> The biggest advantage that Burns has is the shedloads of time he'd have to
> analyse & plan while his side is batting...
>
the next match cos the other openers are no better.
mike
jack fredricks
Dec 28, 2021, 5:44:04 PM12/28/21
to
On Wednesday, December 29, 2021 at 7:03:44 AM UTC+10, alvey wrote:
> The biggest advantage that Burns has is the shedloads of time he'd have to
lol @ shedloads
> The biggest advantage that Burns has is the shedloads of time he'd have to
Hamish Laws
Dec 28, 2021, 6:17:47 PM12/28/21
to
On Wednesday, December 29, 2021 at 6:54:51 AM UTC+11, John Hall wrote:
> In message <9b304877-4c7e-41b6...@googlegroups.com>,
> jack fredricks <jzfre...@gmail.com> writes
> In message <9b304877-4c7e-41b6...@googlegroups.com>,
> jack fredricks <jzfre...@gmail.com> writes
> >Burns is a "leading candidate for captaincy"?
> >All hope *is* lost.
> He's about the only current England player with extensive captaincy
> experience in the county game, and led Surrey to the Championship in
> 2018. (And whatever his limitations as a batsman, he has a better record
> as a Test opener than just about any opener that England have tried post
> Strauss and Cook.)
and is the only English batsman other than Root that's outscored extras this year.
> >All hope *is* lost.
> He's about the only current England player with extensive captaincy
> experience in the county game, and led Surrey to the Championship in
> 2018. (And whatever his limitations as a batsman, he has a better record
> as a Test opener than just about any opener that England have tried post
> Strauss and Cook.)
Robbert ter Hart
Dec 29, 2021, 3:08:06 AM12/29/21
to
Op dinsdag 28 december 2021 om 14:23:25 UTC+1 schreef Mike Holmans:
I'm not going to disagree with your analysis, except to say that Collingwood was a very, very good Test player. I was always a big fan, so if anyone says anything bad about him, I'm going to take issue. ;-)
Oh, for a man like him to bat at 5 and captain this Test team...
RtH
Oh, for a man like him to bat at 5 and captain this Test team...
RtH
John Hall
Dec 29, 2021, 5:35:58 AM12/29/21
to
In message <93895218-2a8d-4348...@googlegroups.com>,
mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
mention his captaincy experience, but imply that one reason Middlesex
were a "shite team" was his captaincy and that he's too much of a loner
to make a good skipper..
mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>However no ones mentioned Malan and although his place isnt that
>secure, i think he did captain middlesex for 2 seasons so that would
>make him more experienced than anyone else, plus i think msex were
>pretty rubbish then, so he would be used to being in charge of a shite
>team. of course he got so fed up that he skipped off to yorkshire to
>find success.
He's mentioned as a possible option in my paper this morning. They
>secure, i think he did captain middlesex for 2 seasons so that would
>make him more experienced than anyone else, plus i think msex were
>pretty rubbish then, so he would be used to being in charge of a shite
>team. of course he got so fed up that he skipped off to yorkshire to
>find success.
mention his captaincy experience, but imply that one reason Middlesex
were a "shite team" was his captaincy and that he's too much of a loner
to make a good skipper..
Mike Holmans
Dec 29, 2021, 6:31:49 AM12/29/21
to
On Wed, 29 Dec 2021 10:34:30 +0000, John Hall
<john_...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <93895218-2a8d-4348...@googlegroups.com>,
>mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>>However no ones mentioned Malan and although his place isnt that
>>secure, i think he did captain middlesex for 2 seasons so that would
>>make him more experienced than anyone else, plus i think msex were
>>pretty rubbish then, so he would be used to being in charge of a shite
>>team. of course he got so fed up that he skipped off to yorkshire to
>>find success.
>
>He's mentioned as a possible option in my paper this morning. They
>mention his captaincy experience, but imply that one reason Middlesex
>were a "shite team" was his captaincy and that he's too much of a loner
>to make a good skipper..
Like most Middx captains of the last decade, he was appointed because
<john_...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <93895218-2a8d-4348...@googlegroups.com>,
>mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>>However no ones mentioned Malan and although his place isnt that
>>secure, i think he did captain middlesex for 2 seasons so that would
>>make him more experienced than anyone else, plus i think msex were
>>pretty rubbish then, so he would be used to being in charge of a shite
>>team. of course he got so fed up that he skipped off to yorkshire to
>>find success.
>
>He's mentioned as a possible option in my paper this morning. They
>mention his captaincy experience, but imply that one reason Middlesex
>were a "shite team" was his captaincy and that he's too much of a loner
>to make a good skipper..
the other plausible candidates had either already done the job and
stepped down/been sacked or refused to do it. What those appointed
have mostly wanted is to identify their successor and hand over asap.
Appointing Malan to the England captaincy would reek of similar
desperation.
Cheers,
Mike
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