plastics under draw sheets (community hospital elderly care)
Stu
shift. the ward sister does not like using plastics under draw sheets at
night due to contributing factors towards pressure sores. night staff
however use them religiously and insist on putting them underneath so that
they only have to change the drawsheet if the bed becomes soiled during the
night. this i believe is lazy as we day staff do not use them and have to
just get on with changing a whole bed if wet. please tell me anything to do
with subject as it will be interesting to take it to our next staff meeting.
i don't agree with using them but i am stuck in the middle so too are the
other two hcas who work opposite me.
thanks
lisa
Gray
> But has anyone asked the people who have to sleep on the plastic ?
Probably not!
The main problem with SOME staff is they discover an easier work routine
i.e
change a drawsheet
INSTEAD of
using a toileting regime that allows the elderly person the dignity of being
dry by using toilet or commode regularly
This is form experience of the
Been there done that/ got the T-shirt /battle scars/ medals /lost the staff
who were lazy
Good luck
--
regards
G.A.Wilson RN level 1 &2
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.525 / Virus Database: 322 - Release Date: 09/10/2003
Stu
can pick up evidence in relation to pressure sores and plastics. the beds
that get plastics on are those patients who have quite poor continence, but
like you said a good routine of toileting throughout the night should assist
the situation. i find myself taking plastics out and the night staff just
put them back in. sister knows and it is being brought up at the next
meeting, whereby all night staff are attending and voicing their opinions on
the matter, should be interesting, we won't fireworks on bonfire night i
think!
thanks again
lisa
ps would you still ask a patient with dementia if he/she would like a
plastic under their sheet? freedom of choice believes you would but your
comments would be good.
Alternative Christmas
Plastics under drawsheets are undignified, unnecessary, a waste of money, a
sure fire way of increasing an individual's risk of tissue breakdown,
treating people as lumps of meat rather than individuals, a lawsuit waiting
to happen, a sign that no-one on the ward has read a textbook/journal since
1965.
Tired.
Gary
UK
Claire Morgan
have sheets that are quite soft and have no plastic anywhere near the
patients skin.
This could be looked into.......
"Alternative Christmas" <webm...@alternativechristmas.co.uk> wrote in
message news:Yzhmb.101$f04...@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
Rod
> hi thank you for your comments can you tell me any relevent sites where i
> can pick up evidence in relation to pressure sores and plastics.
OK a few sites which might be useful;
http://www.sumed.co.uk/selec.htm
http://www.merck.com/pubs/mm_geriatrics/sec15/ch124.htm
http://www.aromacaring.co.uk/pressure_areas.htm
http://www.health.gov.au/acc/reports/download/assesstls3c.pdf - NB pdf file
But just about any recent text book should do. If you have access to a
library you could ask the librarian about access to databases of articles
(eg CINAHL or BNI) where you can find various articles on the topic.
Probably the best of the lot is to look at & use the Department of health's
Essence of Care document see: http://www.doh.gov.uk/essenceofcare/
specifically chapters 7 & 8 - if this is an NHS institutions this should
have significant force.
It might also be useful to contact your audit department or similar as many
have done comparative surveys of pressure area sore development in various
areas and may be able to produce some figures of the number of patients who
have been affected.
Good luck
Rod
Gray
"client" "Service User" "Patient" (whatever you call them) is treated with
Respect
Dignity
And most of all UNDERSTANDING
after all some day that could be on of those night
staff...............................................
--
Regards
Gray
> In the end, it's the G grade's job.
> 24 hour responsibility means exactly that.
>
> P
> --
> You may think you know me....
Stu
themselves into a routine and they will not like being told what to do by
sister. she has had the issue out with them before and she was ignored, she
can't be there 24 hrs to observe and make sure they are doing their jobs
right. to me they are just lazy, a patient who has a catheter, uses
commodes/toilets or bottles should not have a plastic on their bed, neither
should those who are at risk of getting pressure sores, ie whose waterlow
scores are high etc. as got rudely pointed out to me well we haven't had
anyone who uses a drawsheet get pressure sores. it doesnt mean it doesn't
happen it isn't a sole contributer to pressure sores but it does have some
impact. web sites very useful thankyou.
lisa
"P" <praer...@jetable.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1a0743993...@news.individual.net...
> In article <qdidnTLS3be...@brightview.com>,
> gawi...@freenetname.co.uk says...
> > I personally think it is the "job" of EVERY trained nurse to ensure that
the
> > "client" "Service User" "Patient" (whatever you call them) is treated
with
> > Respect
> > Dignity
> > And most of all UNDERSTANDING
>
> I'm not disagreeing, but when the OP states that "sister knows and it is
> being brought up at the next meeting," it implies to me that the person
> who is expected, and paid, to do the job of managing the ward is failing
> to do just that.
> It should not be the job of another nurse to do what the G grade is
> shirking from.
Anneke Andriessen
"Stu" <lisaks...@atlantis9479.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bn9gph$co5$1...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
Ask your wardsister to send someone for training as a TV nurse as this leads
nowwhere. Why would you want to use plastic sheets where many hospitals use
matresses with sown into place plasticized covers? By the way how do you
clean your beds and bedding?
Anneke
Gray
reason the NMC would see as a reason for ignoring some part of patient
care ----IS IT?
--
Regards
Gray
"P" <praer...@jetable.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1a0743993...@news.individual.net...
> In article <qdidnTLS3be...@brightview.com>,
> gawi...@freenetname.co.uk says...
> > I personally think it is the "job" of EVERY trained nurse to ensure that
the
> > "client" "Service User" "Patient" (whatever you call them) is treated
with
> > Respect
> > Dignity
> > And most of all UNDERSTANDING
>
> I'm not disagreeing, but when the OP states that "sister knows and it is
> being brought up at the next meeting," it implies to me that the person
> who is expected, and paid, to do the job of managing the ward is failing
> to do just that.
> It should not be the job of another nurse to do what the G grade is
> shirking from.
Steven Campbell
news:qdidnTLS3be...@brightview.com...
> I personally think it is the "job" of EVERY trained nurse to ensure that
the
> "client" "Service User" "Patient" (whatever you call them) is treated with
> Respect
> Dignity
> And most of all UNDERSTANDING
Gray, I think the terms you quote above should be the bare minimum for ALL
staff, certainly not just for EVERY trained nurse.
Steven.
Gray
and I can't fault them
--
Regards
Gray
"Steven Campbell" <noch...@idontthinkso.com> wrote in message
news:bnmdnk$h30$1...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
---
Eddie Newall
http://www.nice.org.uk/pdf/CG7_PRD_NICEguideline.pdf
--
Eddie Newall
http://freeinformationcentre.co.uk
Luthien
Andrew L. J. Heenan
> > night staff ... insist on putting them underneath so that
> > they only have to change the drawsheet if the bed
> > becomes soiled during the night. this i believe is lazy
> > as we day staff do not use them and have to just get
> > on with changing a whole bed if wet.
"Luthien" wrote ...
> Don't they use attends over there?
Leaving patients lying on a wet sheet is not only fairly pathetic nursing,
it also leaves the patient at huge risk of infection and pressure damage.
Luthien suggests "Attends" - while you may not be familiar with that brand,
there are many varieties of continence pad that use modern gel technology to
absorb the urine and keep the patient effectively 'dry' for a fair while
after passing urine - infinitely better than sheets, draw sheets or
old-style pulp incontinence pads. Also much more cost effective, as it
happens, and available wherever you are (UK?)
None of these should be a substitute for investigating each patient's
continence, however - the problem may be better managed with medication,
catheter, education, even surgery - pads should never be the first option.
Andrew Heenan
Real Nurse
http://www.realnurse.net/
Venkat
1. What is the point of having a draw sheet if there is no "Mac" underneath
it Just another thing to ge wrinkled and wet. The original idea is to
prevent the whole bed from getting wet. No Mac = waste of time and laundry
resourses.
2. Your D.O.N. seems to have total disregard for her budget and time
management.
3. Continense aides are cost effective and used properly do not result in
bad nursing.
4. It sounds like your bed changing is causing you unnecessary work and time
that could be spent on delivering better care in other areas.
If your D.O.N. is so stupid in this area then she is stupid in other areas.
Conclusion = find another job and stop treating your resident as "your
worships" and yourself as an "I am not worthy"
venkat
Andrew L. J. Heenan
> 1. What is the point of having a draw sheet if there is
> no "Mac" underneath it Just another thing to ge wrinkled
> and wet. The original idea is to prevent the whole bed
> from getting wet.
> No Mac = waste of time and laundry resourses.
Draw sheet with or without a mac is poor nursing.
There are better ways of dealing with incontinence.
Venkat
> Draw sheet with or without a mac is poor nursing.
> There are better ways of dealing with incontinence.
>
>
> Andrew Heenan
> Real Nurse
> http://www.realnurse.net/
>
In an ideal world where all nurses do thier work. I would agree with you.
"Better ways? Yes" Knock someone down with unsubtanciated critisism .
Typical nurse. Your attitude reflects the culture of nursing. You missed the
point. In your experience there are better ways. The point was if you don't
use a mac then it is better not to have a drawsheet.
That is your belief, because you "think" I use one I am a poor nurse. How
typical of a Nurse!
" I believe there is no place for the use of draw sheets" is a less
defamatory and grandiose way of sayng the same thing. You make yourself
sound like one of the "White Shoe Brigade"
In my experience there are also better ways but I have found each and every
resident and Nursing home have different requirements.eg. I come on after a
night shift and at 1am round everybody is in a wet bed despite continence
aides, next night the evening staff swear that they did thier rounds. So I
am a bad nurse? The D.O.N. supports the evening staff. .....
Some residents play with themselve i.e. fondle or masturbate resulting in
pad loose i.e. wet bed. Catheters are a very last resort. especially for the
masturbaters, who in some cases have pulled them out balloon inflated.
We have many tools at our service and our residents are all different
requiring taylored solutions.
"Draw sheet with or without a mac is poor nursing." Using expressions like
"Poor Nursing" is a value judgement.
of no value except to make yourself look knowlegeable and powerful.
In my experience there is a place for Draw Sheets in nursing however it is
something that I would have to justify as I believe they are used
indescriminately in some institutions.
Regards
Venkat
Andrew L. J. Heenan
> In an ideal world where all nurses do thier work. I would agree
> with you. "Better ways? Yes" Knock someone down with
> unsubtanciated critisism . Typical nurse. Your attitude reflects
> there are better ways. The point was if you don't use a mac
> then it is better not to have a drawsheet.
(and warbled on for ten paras... )
If you bothered to read my previous note, you'd have seen that I already
offered several alternatives.
In the post you replied to, I made it clear that mac or no mac, it's poor
care - Typical troll to argue endlessly about one detail of a redundant
exchange.
In short, MAC or NO MAC, it's crude, outdated, bettered, and there are MORE
COST EFFECTIVE ways of doing the job.
Do I really, at the dawn of 2004, four years into the new millenium, need to
substantiate the uselessness and potential harm of drawsheets (WITH or
WITHOUT macs)? [if so, do tell where you learned your craft]
It's like arguing about the deckchairs ten years after the Titanic sank.
It ain't rocket science; and if my insistence on rejecting poor practice
makes me a Typical Nurse, then I'm proud be a typical nurse. Are you proud
to be a terminal idiot? NO? then STOP it.
Drop it, Move on, get a life ... etc.
Best wishes,
Andrew
PS - If I ever catch you nursing someone I care about, I'll probably shoot
you myself. Meanwhile, I'll just pray that you do some STUDYING from books
that are not 30 years old.
Venkat
my suspicions were right. get down off your high horse, take off those white
shoes and stop the auto errotisim.
Completely missed the point again. (Second year out?)
It's people with your attitude that have kept nursing in the dark age
despite claims to the contrary.
I am sure you and nursing will remain happily married for many years to
come. It is you who are thirty years behind, only seeing what you want to
see, missinterpreting everthing inorder to prove yourself right. I bet your
a workplace bully.
I hope you and nursing continue your tumultuous and monotheistic
relationship into your dotage. I pitty your subordinates. Unameanable to
reason. Dogmatic and full of your own importance. If your such a fantastic
nurse why are you wasting your time in Nursing Homes, any dullard can get by
with your kind off emotional bagage in a Nursing Home. Try real nursing with
in a real hospital.
Venkat
Venkat
From your own website
What is "Flaming"?
Flaming has come to refer to almost any mail insult. Originating in usenet,
flames were carefully honed responses to real or perceived insults;
sarcastic, artistic, often literary in allusion. The art has long since
disappeared, and flame wars can be abusive, aggressive and unpleasant
exchanges in newsgroups, mailing lists and email. They are a serious
reminder that it is vital to think before mailing; an insult cannot be
withdrawn. Find out more.
Typical Nurse
Venkat
Andrew L. J. Heenan
"Venkat" is still dribbling...
> Dear Andrew
<snip>
Whatever.
Andrew
New Years Resolution - "must stop poking the trolls"