THE FALSE TEACHERS LIST
DISCERN7
THE SOJOURNAL
[1 Peter 2:11,12]
Vol. 1, No.1 May 1995.
{NOTE: THOSE NOT WANTING FURTHER INFORMATION SEND REPLY AND UNDER SUBJECT
WRITE...SUBJ: Unsubscribe.}
Are You A Christian?
Are you aware of the FALSE TEACHING of many popular preachers and
movements? Believe it or not, there are serious problems with the
teachings of John MacArthur, Greg Laurie, Josh McDowell, R.C. Sproul, J.I.
Packer, Charles Stanley, Tony Campolo, Charles Swindoll, Chuck Colson,
James Dobson, Robert Shuller, James D. Kennedy, Jack Hayford, Tim &
Beverly La Haye, Bill Hybels, Gary Ezzo, Lary Crabb, Gary Collins, Kay
Arthur, Neil Anderson, etc. (2Tim 4:3), Promise Keepers, "Christian"
Psychology, "Biblical" Counseling, Awana, YWAM, EFCA, as well as subjects
like Christmas, debt, The gifts of the Holy Spirit etc.
Call for FREE Facts and Documentation:(1-800-469-8783).1-800-HOW-TRUE
Or write: GOD'S WORD FELLOWSHIP
39156 CALLE ESCONDIDO
GREEN VALLEY, CA 91350
OR: WRITTEN DOCUMENTATION IS AVAILABLE THROUGH E-MAIL.
God's Word Fellowship is a church in Green Valley focused on the Holy
Bible as completly sufficient for mankind. Thus the Word of God is the
test and standard for all faith and practice. (Test all things: hold fast
what is good."1 Thessalonians 5:21)
[WHY THE LIST]
Why this list and why are they false? Well most if not all adhere to
the FALSE religion of psychology in some form or other, taking the guise
of "Christian Psychology",or "Biblical Counseling", and all teach some
form of self-esteem or self-worth doctrine.
Many people will denounce me and our church for doing this listing,
stating that we should not judge(Mat.7f), it is devisive, unloving, and so
on. But is it? Well consider our Lords own words:
[John 7:24]
"DO NOT JUDGE ACCORDING TO APPEARANCE, BUT JUDGE WITH RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT"
Well, is this a contradiction? No, of course not, but merely
confusion and lack of understanding of the context of what Christ spoke
about in Matt. As Paul himself exhorts us to do so in numerous verses to,
"CONVINCE, REBUKE, EXHORT, WITH ALL LONG-SUFFERING AND TEACHING (2 Timothy
4:2; 2 Tim.2:25,26; 2 Tim.3:16,17).
[WHAT MAKES A FALSE TEACHER]
[2 John 1:9]
WHOEVER TRANSGRESSES AND DOES NOT ABIDE IN THE DOCTRINE OF CHRIST DOES NOT
HAVE GOD. HE WHO ABIDES IN THE DOCTRINE OF CHRIST HAS BOTH THE FATHER AND
THE SON.
As the first verse states in 2 John, that those who
transgress{deviate, i.e.: not staying within scripture. } do not have God.
We can with a clear conscious call these teachers, "False" because they
have on a consistent basis taught error, which, if you teach false things
then you are a false teacher. We are not speaking about making a mistake
here and there, but false doctrine they stand on as truth, but truth that
has been twisted or just plain created and taught on a consistent basis.
Either the Bible teaches it, or it does not. It is either truth or lies.
EHPESIANS 5:8-11
Ephesians exhorts us to walk as Children of light (for/because the fruit
of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and Truth). and "FINDING
OUT what is acceptable to the Lord. " Which means we are required to find
this out for ourselves. And then it tells us what to do once we find out,
"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather
EXPOSE THEM." Which we have done.
Our concern as believers is with Truth because Christ is The way, the
Truth, and the Life, and is called the Word of God (John 1:1, Rev. 19:13,
Heb.4:12,13), and to fulfill the commandments as Christ told us to do by
loving our neighbor AS ourselves when we study what true love is (1
Corinthians 13f) true Love, loves the Truth (vs. 6 "rejoices in the
truth").
So how do we treat this truth? Do we defend it? Do we believe every
word of it? Do we agree to disagree on supposed "essentials and
non-essentials"? Well, Christ said, "Man does not live by bread alone,
BUT BY EVERY WORD that proceeds from the mouth of God." Every word is
important and because Scripture is of no private interpretation (2 Peter
1:20,21), we must find out what it says and stand on it without
compromise. There is no room for loose thinking, but quite the contrary
as Peter exhorts us to "THEREFORE GIRD UP THE LOINS OF YOUR MIND, BE
SOBER..."(1 Peter 1:13).
Well, is this loving to expose, and/or to correct? Yes!
OPEN REBUKE IS BETTER THAN LOVE CAREFULLY CONCEALED. FAITHFUL ARE THE
WOUNDS OF A FRIEND, BUT THE KISSES OF AN ENEMY ARE DECEITFUL. (Proverbs
27:5,6, Lev.19:17)
The true believer should and would ask for correction.(Error of the
wicked 2 Peter 3:17) So have we gone against the word by doing just that?
Though we do ask for our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ to correct
us if we have erred in calling these men false teachers. Our faith and
trust should not be in men, but in the perfect word of God.
FOR THE TIME WILL COME WHEN THEY WILL NOT ENDURE SOUND DOCTRINE, BUT
ACCORDING TO THEIR
OWN DESIRES, BECAUSE THEY HAVE ITCHING EARS, THEY WILL HEAP UP FOR
THEMSELVES
TEACHERS; AND THEY WILL TURN THEIR EARS AWAY FROM TRUTH...
2 Timothy 4:3,4
We are in that TIME. We have a heap and it grows larger every day and
people are turning away from the truth for a myriad of reasons. It's
outdated, it's been translated so many times we can not accept it as error
free, it was written for a specific time period, it is your opinion, etc.
NO...STOP! I plead with you all to stand on the truth. There is only one
truth and yes, if we are truly saved than we will know what that truth is,
BUT, Christ has said, "MANY ARE CALLED BUT FEW ARE CHOSEN"(Mat.22:14) And
this he spoke to supposed believers. And his sheep will hear his voice.
But it is also your responsibility to FIND out this truth, because it is
pleasing to God. If you think we are wrong, than you have nothing to
fear, because you stand on truth, but then you must correct us because you
are commanded to do so. Call the number its there for you. It is loving
to correct and is in fact a commandment. Christ himself said,"Do not
judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment." There
is a time and place to judge others and especially when what they teach or
propagate is false and contrary to doctrine.
Yes it may cause division and strife, but as Paul states in Romans 16:17,
that those to avoid are those who are ((Contrary)) to doctrine. Christ
did not come to bring peace but a sword. Is it any wonder that there is
division and chaos, when Christ himself came, the same division and chaos
erupted. But once again, those guilty are those contrary to doctrine. If
we are, than show us.
I will attempt to write to as many as I can, but like I said our church
will send you the proof you want. For those who don't even want to test
it, I am sad for you. Test all things!
FOR THOUGH WE WALK IN THE FLESH, WE DO NOT WAR ACCORDING TO THE FLESH.
FOR THE
WEAPONS OF OUR WARFARE ARE NOT CARNAL BUT MIGHTY IN GOD FOR PULLING DOWN
STRONGHOLDS, CASTING DOWN ARGUMENTS AND EVERY HIGH THING THAT EXALTS
ITSELF AGAINST THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD, BRINGING EVERY THOUGHT INTO
THE CAPTIVITY TO THE OBEDIENCE OF CHRIST.
[2 CORINTHIANS 10:3-6]
[THE WORD OF GOD IS PERFECT, PSYCHOLOGY IS NOT]
But as example of a false doctrine, we should look to the juggernaut
itself; Psychology. As I said before, most of these teachers teach some
form of psychology, some will deny doing so, some not (James Dobson), but
all teach self-esteem, self-worth, which equals self-love.(Those
interested in knowing more about why we should judge can call the number
or e-mail me)
The main problem with psychology, (this not being an exhaustive
letter on it) is that it denies the sufficiency of Christ and His word.
The word of God claims to be perfect and sufficient for all things.
[Colossians 2:8]
BEWARE LEST ANYONE CHEAT YOU THROUGH PHILOSOPHY AND EMPTY DECEIT,
ACCORDING TO THE TRADITIONS OF MEN, ACCORDING TO THE BASIC PRINCIPLES OF
THE WORLD, AND ((NOT)) ACCORDING TO CHRIST.
[Psalm 19:7]
THE LAW OF THE LORD IS PERFECT, CONVERTING THE SOUL;
[2 Peter 1:3]
...AS HIS DIVINE POWER HAS GIVEN TO US ((ALL)) THINGS THAT PERTAIN TO
((LIFE)) AND ((GODLINESS)), THROUGH THE KNOWLEDGE OF HIM WHO CALLED US BY
GLORY AND VIRTUE.
Psychology is surely not perfect and not according to Christ. After
learing of its roots, its origin and who its founders were, a "Christian"
should come to hate it as we are instructed to "Hate EVERY false way" and
we should, "HAVE NO FELLOWSHIP WITH THE UNFRUITFUL WORKS OF DARKNESS, BUT
RATHER ((EXPOSE)) THEM (Ephesians 5:11). So a little history.
SIGMUND FREUD (The father of psychology; 1858-1939)
A man who hated religion, specifically Christianity, called
religion, "the obsessional neurosis of humanity" A man, which most of us
know, felt that behavior and motives somehow always involved sex.
CARL JUNG (1875-1961)
This is another man who rejected religion and instead, participated
in necromancy , and communicated with the dead
CARL ROGERS
In Psychoheresy, the Bobgans state in regards to Carl Rogers:
"Carl Rogers is another example of one of those influential pioneers.
While attending Union Theological Seminary, he and some of his fellow
classmates 'thought themselves right out of religious work.' He did not
find what he was looking for in Christianity and thus turned away from his
Christian upbringing and Christian calling. Carl Rogers renounced
Christianity and became one of the most respected leaders of humanistic
psychology. He confessed, 'I could not work in a field where I would be
required to believe in some specified religious doctrine.' Psychology was
attractive to him since he was interested in the 'questions as to the
meaning of life,' but did not want to be restricted by the doctrines of
Christianity. Not only did Carl Rogers embrace another religion, secular
humanism; he later turned to the occult. Rogers engaged in the forbidden
practice of necromancy, which is communication with the dead through a
medium. What does a man who has repudiated Christianity have to offer the
church about how to live?" (Psychoheresy, by Martin and Deidre Bobgan, p.
15, with five footnotes for reference)
These men, who were founders of this growing "religion" or they would
like to say, "science" rejects the word of God, and tries to supplant it.
The name itself is revealing, "The study of the soul". Who's realm is
that? God's realm is the soul and his Word instructs us how to better it.
Psychologist themselves have problems with Psychology:
ROGER MILLS
"The field of psychology today is literally a mess. There are as
many techniques, methods and theories around as there are researchers and
therapists. I have personally seen therapists convince their clients that
all of their problems come from their mothers, the stars, their
biochemical make-up, their diet, their life-style and even the karma from
their past lives." (The National Educator, July 1980, p.14)
But what about "Christian" psychology? Worse! We are never called
to "Christianize" something that is evil to make it good, but instead we
are to abhor it, expose it, and told by God to be Holy, which means SET
APART. To get an idea what Christian psychologists think the difference
between secular psychology and "Christian" psychology is I quote:
At a meeting of THE CHRISTIAN ASSOCIATION FOR PSYCHOLOGICAL STUDIES
(CAPS) the following was said:
"We are often asked if we are 'Christian psychologists' and find it
difficult to answer since we don't know what the question implies. We are
Christians who are psychologists but at the present time there is no
acceptable Christian psychology that is markedly different from
non-Christian psychology. It is difficult to imply that we function in a
manner that is fundamentally distinct from our non-Christian
colleagues...as yet there is not an acceptable theory, mode or research or
treatment methodology that is distinctly Christian" (Psychohersy, Martin
and Deidre Bobgan, p.5)
[SELF-ESTEEM/SELF-WORTH]
And who is the biggest proponent of Christian Psychology, but James
Dobson himself. This man preaches another gospel, a gospel that many
preachers today have swallowed, hook, line and sinker, which is the
doctrine of self-esteem.
"...whenever the keys to self-esteem are seemingly out of reach for a
large percentage of the people, as in twentieth-century America, then
widespread 'mental illness', neuroticism, hatred, alcoholism. drug abuse,
violence, and social disorder will certainly occur. Personal worth is not
something human beings are free to take or leave. We must have it, and
when it is unattainable, everybody suffers. (In his book, Hide or Seek,
How to Build Self-Esteem in Your Child, p.20-21)
What does God say the problem with man is? SIN (Romans 1:18f)! Not
self-esteem. There is not one verse in the word of God that commands us
to love ourselves or to think highly of ourselves, but instead Christ
said, "DENY YOURSELF..." Is self an issue in a Christian's life? No.
And Christ also commanded us to, " LOVE our Neighbor ((AS)) our self." We
already love ourselves, that's not the problem, the problem addressed was
to love our neighbors. We love ourselves so much, that not only do we
spend time loving ourselves (primping; new clothes; make-up, etc.) that
the anxiety comes when we think that someone ((else)) does not love us as
much as we do. There is the "low self-esteem". Wanting others to accept
us, to love us too. But I will not argue that point, because I am not a
"psychologist", but I will attempt to explain what our attitude should be,
from a Biblical point of view.
[Psalm 51:17]
THE SACRIFICES OF GOD ARE A BROKEN SPIRIT, A BROKEN AND A ((CONTRITE))
HEART-THESE O GOD, YOU WILL ((NOT)) DESPISE.
[Isaiah 57:15]
FOR THUS SAYS THE HIGH AND LOFTY ONE WHO INHABITS ETERNITY, WHOSE NAME IS
HOLY: "I DWELL IN THE HIGH AND HOLY PLACE. WITH HIM WHO HAS A ((CONTRITE))
AND HUMBLE SPIRIT..."
Christ did not come to die for us, as some preachers would like to
say, because we were worthy, or worth something to him. On the contrary,
he died for us while we were yet sinners (Romans 5:6-8)! That is the
amazing love of a God, who hates sin, whose wrath dwells at this moment on
those still rejecting our Lord, and once dwelt on us, who even though
hated us for being sinners, made the decision to love anyway. While we
were YET sinners, while we were YET worthless, unlovable, but Christ died
for us anyhow. That is amazing love, love that should make us glorify our
God and esteem Him and not ourselves. That would be the correct
perspective to have as 1 John 3:1 would state, "BEHOLD WHAT MANNER OF
LOVE (behold, take notice, hello!) [and who is the attention drawn to?]
((THE FATHER)) HAS BESTOWED ON US, THAT WE SHOULD BE CALLED CHILDREN OF
GOD!
The attention is never on us, and why should it be? Paul said
himself that, "There is none righteous, no not one...There is none who
seeks after God." (Romans 3:1f). Or do we believe what R.C SPROUL says
about our significance:
"Every person ((needs)) to feel significant. We want our lives to count.
We yearn to believe that in some way we are important and that hunger for
significance-a drive as intense as our need for oxygen-doesn't come from
pride or ego. It comes from ((God)) because ((he)) wants each of us to
understand how ((important)) we are. ... We must seek our roots, our
origin, and our destiny so that we can know our present value. ...Written
for anyone who shares the hunger for significance. This book explores the
human cry for dignity, the hallowed longing for love and respect. ...
Wherever people come together, we can help each other discover our
self-worth. We can help each other realize that we are persons of
significance being made in the image of God." (Emphasis added.)
Honestly, does God want that for us, does it come from God? Find me
one verse that would say that. It comes from selfishness, self love,
pride, and sin. I know, it sounds good and "itches the ears",but is it
Biblical? And if it is not, then it is against the word of God, and
teaching contrary to doctrine makes you a false teacher. Every thing that
Mr. Sproul wrote in that quote above is false! Do we need to seek our
roots to know our present value? Our value is more than a sparrow, that's
it and nothing more. Yes God loves us, because he made the decession to
love us. And Paul and Peter both exhort us to leave sin in the past; lay
it aside; look to the upward call of God.
[Philippians 3:13]
BRETHREN, I DO NOT COUNT MYSELF TO HAVE APPREHENDED; BUT ONE THING I DO,
((FORGETTING)) THOSE THINGS WHICH ARE BEHIND AND REACHING FORWARD TO THOSE
THINGS WHICH ARE AHEAD, I PRESS TOWARD THE GOAL FOR THE PRIZE OF THE
UPWARD CALL OF GOD IN CHRIST JESUS.
And what is also alarming is that Paul warned us about this type of
push for self-love would happen in the last days.
[2 Timothy 3:1-2]
BUT KNOW THIS, THAT IN THE LAST DAYS PERILOUS TIMES WILL COME: FOR MEN
WILL BE ((LOVERS)) OF ((THEMSELVES))...
This is just the tip of the iceberg and the ship as already run
aground. We are manning the life boats and handling over the life vests.
You have it before you, and now it's your turn to decided: ACCEPT, REJECT,
and/or CORRECT.
[1 John 2:3-6]
NOW BY ((THIS)) WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW ((HIM)), IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.
HE WHO SAYS, "I KNOW HIM," AND DOES NOT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS, IS A LIAR,
AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.
[2 John 6]
THIS IS ((LOVE)), THAT WE WALK ACCORDING TO ((HIS)) COMMANDMENTS. THIS IS
THE COMMANDMENT, THAT AS YOU HAVE HEARD FROM THE BEGINNING, YOU SHOULD
WALK IN IT.
Send all questions and comments to DISC...@aol.com or
node...@themall.com or you can call 1-800-HOW-TRUE.
In love with much long-suffering,
Al Soto
John Hawker
disc...@aol.com (DISCERN7) wrote:
>THE SOJOURNAL
> [1 Peter 2:11,12]
>Vol. 1, No.1 May 1995.
>{NOTE: THOSE NOT WANTING FURTHER INFORMATION SEND REPLY AND UNDER SUBJECT
>WRITE...SUBJ: Unsubscribe.}
>Are You A Christian?
> Are you aware of the FALSE TEACHING of many popular preachers and
>movements? Believe it or not, there are serious problems with the
>teachings of John MacArthur, Greg Laurie, Josh McDowell, R.C. Sproul, J.I.
>Packer, Charles Stanley, Tony Campolo, Charles Swindoll, Chuck Colson,
>James Dobson, Robert Shuller, James D. Kennedy, Jack Hayford, Tim &
>Beverly La Haye, Bill Hybels, Gary Ezzo, Lary Crabb, Gary Collins, Kay
>Arthur, Neil Anderson, etc. (2Tim 4:3), Promise Keepers, "Christian"
>Psychology, "Biblical" Counseling, Awana, YWAM, EFCA, as well as subjects
>like Christmas, debt, The gifts of the Holy Spirit etc.
THis is some list! Knowing from my experience of life in general that
it is generally easier to destroy than to biuld, and easier to be
negative about something than to be positive, I was wondering if Al
has another list for us?
Having studied these and presumably others in such detail, Al MUSt
have some TRUE TEACHERS list for us.
Please let us see your not yet publishrd here list: "THE TRUE
TEACHERS LIST"
Just wondering
John Hawker (also studied a bit)
Craig Chilton
johnh...@enterprise.net (John Hawker) wrote:
>disc...@aol.com (DISCERN7) wrote:
>>THE SOJOURNAL
>> [1 Peter 2:11,12]
>>Vol. 1, No.1 May 1995.
>>{NOTE: THOSE NOT WANTING FURTHER INFORMATION SEND REPLY AND UNDER SUBJECT
>>WRITE...SUBJ: Unsubscribe.}
>>Are You A Christian?
>> Are you aware of the FALSE TEACHING of many popular preachers and
>>movements? Believe it or not, there are serious problems with the
>>teachings of John MacArthur, Greg Laurie, Josh McDowell, R.C. Sproul, J.I.
>>Packer, Charles Stanley, Tony Campolo, Charles Swindoll, Chuck Colson,
>>James Dobson, Robert Shuller, James D. Kennedy, Jack Hayford, Tim &
>>Beverly La Haye, Bill Hybels, Gary Ezzo, Lary Crabb, Gary Collins, Kay
>>Arthur, Neil Anderson, etc. (2Tim 4:3), Promise Keepers, "Christian"
>>Psychology, "Biblical" Counseling, Awana, YWAM, EFCA, as well as subjects
>>like Christmas, debt, The gifts of the Holy Spirit etc.
>THis is some list! ... I was wondering if Al has another list for us?
It was interesting for me to stumble on this post just now, and
recognize many of the leaders of America's RRR (Religious Radical
Right) were included. To wit:
Josh McDowell, Chuck Colson, James Dobson, James D.
Kennedy, Tim & Beverly La Haye, Promise Keepers.
Of the above, the most notorious of the modern-day false teachers
are James Dobson, Timothy and Beverly LaHaye, D. James Kennedy (NOTE:
Not James D...), Chuck Colson, and Josh McDowell, in that order, from
the most obnoxious to the less so. Dobson's "calls-to-action" on his
"Focus on the Family" radio show, heard by about a million RRR
adherents, have actually caused Congress to reverse themselves on
pending legislation, and act to repress our freedoms. The LaHayes
have nearly equal power. Kennedy has a smaller audience, but is still
quite dangerous. Next, but oddly missing from that list, is Pat
Robertson! Colson is less effective, but his rantings are fully as
ludicrous. Josh McDowell is an arch-conservative, but otherwise is
relatively harmless. To his credit, McDowell works hard to carry out
the great Commission, and has led many good Christian forays into
Russia.
Promise Keepers is perhaps the strongest recruiting tool of the
RRR today, and therefore endangers the cause of Christians who still
choose to follow Christ's directives.
On the flip side, the following are not in the RRR, and don't
deserve to be associated with it:
Charles Stanley, Charles Swindoll, and Robert Schuller,
Stanley has a valuable teaching ministry that closely follows
the Bible. He is not obnoxious, and does not to seek to impose
repressive measures upon non-believers against their will. Swindoll
is upbeat, and only very rarely becomes obnoxious. Schuller is the
best-known of the "liberal" leaders who, unfortunately, goes too far
in the direction of a "feel-good" ministry. He totally ignores Bible
prophesy, and such "negative" concepts as hell, and so thereby
relegates much of the Bible to his own personal version of limbo. He
could deserve to be in the above list -- but only because he's a false
teacher with respect to what he OMITS.
As for the remainder... I've heard them too infrequently to be
able to comment, except for this... If any of them subscribe to the
agenda of the RRR, they are such bit players as to have no real impact
upon society.
I hope this helps to inform. I fear that I may be treading a bit
too close to violating this group's charter by posting this. However,
the thread was in progress, and so I thought it might be worthwhile to
fill in the blanks with respect to the above post.
-- Craig Chilton xan...@sbt.net
Annabel Smyth
> It was interesting for me to stumble on this post just now, and
> recognize many of the leaders of America's RRR (Religious Radical
> Right) were included. To wit:
>
> Josh McDowell, Chuck Colson, James Dobson, James D.
> Kennedy, Tim & Beverly La Haye, Promise Keepers.
>
> Of the above, the most notorious of the modern-day false teachers
> are James Dobson, Timothy and Beverly LaHaye, D. James Kennedy (NOTE:
> Not James D...), Chuck Colson, and Josh McDowell, in that order, from
> the most obnoxious to the less so. Dobson's "calls-to-action" on his
> "Focus on the Family" radio show, heard by about a million RRR
> adherents, have actually caused Congress to reverse themselves on
> pending legislation, and act to repress our freedoms.
In this country, James Dobson is seen only as the author of various "how-to"
books on bringing up children - we know nothing of any radio programmes he
might host.
The only other names on your list of either "goodies" or "baddies" which
mean anything to me are Chuck Colson (whose book about his conversion and
subsequent prison sentence, the title of which totally escapes me, was a
best-seller here), and the names of Josh McDowell and Charles Swindoll ring
faint bells, but I can't think in what context.
--
Annabel Smyth Ann...@amsmyth.demon.co.uk
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The countryside roundabout was gorgeous and extravagantly green. You
could be forgiven for thinking that the principle [sic] industry of
Britain is the manufacture of chlorophyll" Bill Bryson
Simon Muir
In article <4mmna1$h...@bob.sbt.net>, Craig Chilton <xan...@sbt.net>
writes
>
> It was interesting for me to stumble on this post just now, and
>recognize many of the leaders of America's RRR (Religious Radical
>Right) were included. To wit:
>
> Josh McDowell, Chuck Colson, James Dobson, James D.
> Kennedy, Tim & Beverly La Haye, Promise Keepers.
>
> Of the above, the most notorious of the modern-day false teachers
>are James Dobson, Timothy and Beverly LaHaye, D. James Kennedy (NOTE:
>Not James D...), Chuck Colson, and Josh McDowell, in that order, from
>the most obnoxious to the less so. Dobson's "calls-to-action" on his
>"Focus on the Family" radio show, heard by about a million RRR
>adherents, have actually caused Congress to reverse themselves on
>have nearly equal power. Kennedy has a smaller audience, but is still
>quite dangerous. Next, but oddly missing from that list, is Pat
>Robertson! Colson is less effective, but his rantings are fully as
>ludicrous. Josh McDowell is an arch-conservative, but otherwise is
>relatively harmless. To his credit, McDowell works hard to carry out
>the great Commission, and has led many good Christian forays into
>Russia.
>
> Promise Keepers is perhaps the strongest recruiting tool of the
>RRR today, and therefore endangers the cause of Christians who still
>choose to follow Christ's directives.
I can't speak to all of this, but I travel to the US - I've heard the
radio programmes - it appears to this Christian that they're talking
quite some sense (although I do cringe a bit at the presentation).
Doctrinally, it's all fairly mainstream evangelical stuff, and some
bits are sorely needed in America's morality-free society, arguably
in ours too (UK). Surely Craig, you're not suggesting that Christians
have no right to attempt to influence society, or that you can
expect unanimity in viewpoint?
> On the flip side, the following are not in the RRR, and don't
>deserve to be associated with it:
>
> Charles Stanley, Charles Swindoll, and Robert Schuller,
>
>
> I hope this helps to inform.
[snipette]
Hmmm. I detect a hidden agenda somewhere. Schuller's glass cathedral
doesn't strike me as anything other than very narcissistic - Perhaps
you'd care to elaborate on where you fit in the spectrum?
Regards,
S.
Simon Muir
sim...@muircom.demon.co.uk
Is Turnpike the answer - only 29 days to find out - I'd better get typing!
Turnpike evaluation. For Turnpike information, mailto:in...@turnpike.com
DISCERN7
Charles Stanley
General Teachings/Activities
- Dr. Charles Stanley is pastor of the 13,500-member First Baptist Church
of Atlanta (Southern Baptist Convention). (Stanley was twice elected
president of the SBC.) He has degrees from the University of Richmond,
Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, and Luther Rice Seminary. He
airs his sermon messages over nationwide radio and television via In
Touch Ministries. (On a 6/23/91 In Touch radio broadcast, Stanley offered
a packet of ma- terials titled, "Meditations with Charles Stanley."
Included with the kit of materials were "two black and white photos of
Dr. Stanley to help you with your meditations.")
- Stanley was one of the original founders (along with Jerry Falwell and
other neo-evangelicals) of the Moral Majority (now succeeded by the
Liberty Federation), which is one of the classic examples of "the good
cause syndrome"-the persuasion that Christians can cross Scrip- tural
lines of demarcation if the cause is good enough. (In actuality, the Moral
Majority joined believer and unbeliever, Mormon and Methodist, Catholic
and charismatic in an un- holy union to save the country. But rather than
the country being saved, the cause of Christ was damaged. The line of
demarcation between the godly and the "do-gooder" was blurred beyond
recognition.) [Reported in New Neutralism II, pp. 70-71.]
- Stanley has also served on the board of the National Religious
Broadcasters, one of the most compromising neo-evangelical organizations
in Christendom today. But most damaging to Stanley's claim to the
fundamentalist label is his affiliation with the Southern Baptist Con-
vention. There are no fundamentalists in the SBC. (Fundamentalism is the
militant belief and proclamation of the basic doctrines of Christianity
leading to a Scriptural separation from those who reject them.)
Stanley claims to believe in Biblical inerrancy, and at one time clearly
recognized the apos- tasy of the SBC. Stanley instructed his church that
the way to fight the apostasy was to starve it out by refusing to give
to the SBC's Cooperative Program. But then in 1984, Stanley was elected
to the presidency of the SBC. His statement at his first press confer-
ence was: "I think we have to learn to live together and love each other,
whether we agree or not." Stanley announced to the Baptist Press
Association on 9/17/84, that he had now challenged his church to more
than double its Cooperative Program giving for the coming year and to
"rethink" its entire missions program. Dr. Stanley chose to settle for
parity instead of purity (New Neutralism II, pp. 70-71).
- Stanley has endorsed the Life Application Bible (along with Billy
Graham, Howard Hendricks, and D. James Kennedy), a study Bible with
study notes in support of self-love and other humanistic concepts (e.g.,
study note to Rom. 12:3-"Healthy self-esteem is important because some
of us think too little of ourselves x the key to an honest and accurate
evalu- ation is knowing the basis of our self-worth-our identity in
Christ x"; and Gen. 1:26- "Knowing that we are made in God's image, and
thus share many of His characteristics, provides a solid basis for
self-worth x Because we bear God's image, we can feel positive about
ourselves x Knowing you are a person of worth helps you love God x").
Stanley is quoted on the back cover that, "The Life Application Bible is
a concrete step toward al- lowing the Spirit to transform the reader into
a modern-day living epistle."
- Stanley has endorsed Rapha Hospital Treatment Centers of Houston, Texas
(along with other so-called evangelicals as D. James Kennedy, Jerry
Falwell, and Beverly LaHaye). Rapha is an organization that heavily
promotes Alcoholics Anonymous, 12-Step codependency/ recovery programs
as a "Christian" methodology for the cure of "dysfunctional" relation-
ships. Rapha specializes in the "treatment" of so-called codependent
and/or addicted Chris- tians by employing an amalgamation of
Adlerian-Maslowian need psychology and the
Titus 1:9 -". . . hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been
taught, so that [you] can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute
those who oppose it."
Bible. Rapha debuted in 1986 and claims to have treated over 20,000
psychiatric in-patients since then. Today Rapha operates 120 hospital
beds in twelve psychiatric units with an an-
nual income of more than $12 million. Rapha also claims that over 2,000
churches in the U.S. are using its materials. Stanley is quoted as
saying that, "I am grateful to God for all Rapha is doing to help
hurting people. Those of us who are pastors are thankful for an or-
ganization like Rapha." (Must reading for anyone desiring a fuller
understanding of the "co- dependent" heresy sweeping the church today
would be 12 Steps to Destruction: Codepen- dency/Recovery Heresies, by
Martin and Deidre Bobgan, EastGate Publishers, Santa Barbara, CA, 1991,
247 pages.)
- March, 1990: Stanley announced on his television show, an "Inspiration
Cruise" where a guest speaker would be David Seamands, the "Church's"
leading proponent of Healing of the Memories/Inner Healing (which uses
one or more psychological and/or occultic techniques, such as regression,
visualization, guided imagery, dream analysis, and the various Gestalt
therapies consisting of primal scream, ventilation, role plays, etc.). (In
Stanley's 9/91 In Touch magazine, he again announced a cruise with
Seamands, for March of 1992.)
- Gary Smalley joined Stanley for In Touch Ministries' March 4-8, 1991
"Bible Cruise." Smalley is the "Church's" leading proponent of
Right-Brain/Left-Brain pseudoscience. (This right- brain/left-brain myth,
which claims to describe personality types by brain hemisphere dom-
inance, as well as give insights to male/female communication
effectiveness, has been thoroughly discredited by secular
neuroscientists, to say nothing of the fact that it has no support in
Scripture-for a more detailed analysis of Smalley's teachings, see pp.
211-223 of Prophets of PsychoHeresy II: Critiquing Dr. James C. Dobson,
Martin and Deidre Bob- gan, EastGate Publishers, Santa Barbara, CA, 1990,
310 pages; and "Gary Smalley: The Psychology of Matriarchy," Media
Spotlight Special Report, Albert Dager, 1989, 4 pages.)
- Stanley has also endorsed the NIV Men's Devotional Bible (Zondervan)-"x
you will find the daily sharpening you need from more than one hundred
Christian men." These "Christian" men include Tom Landry, Larry Burkett,
Bill Hybels, Dave Dravecky. Stanley has also scheduled a 1995 January
Bible Study Cruise through Templeton Tours. Speakers are neo- evangelical
psychologizer, female teacher Kay Arthur and former Southern Baptist
Conven- tion presidents Jerry Vines and Adrian Rogers. All three also
taught on Stanley's 1994 Jan- uary Cruise. Stanley also supports the
ecumenical, charismatic, psychologized men's move- ment known as Promise
Keepers. Over 200 members from Stanley's First Baptist of Atlan- ta
attended the Promise Keepers National Convention in Boulder, Colorado in
1994. Final- ly, Stanley was a featured speaker at the Billy Graham
Training Center at the Cove, North Carolina, from 8/11/94-8/14/94.
- October, 1989: Stanley broadcast a radio message in support of
unconditional love and accep- tance, giving as Scriptural support the
Parable of the Lost Son (Lk. 15:11ff); Stanley stopped at v. 20, calling
that proof of our unconditional acceptance by God, without our
confession! (Verses 21ff. should be examined to see that acceptance only
follows confes- sion-See Brownback, The Danger of Self-Love, pp. 109-116,
and Bobgan, Prophets of PsychoHeresy II, pp. 91-96, for proper, biblical
analyses of so-called unconditional love and acceptance.)
- Stanley has fully endorsed the general teachings and counseling model
of so-called Christian psychologist, Dr. Larry Crabb. [Crabb's model of
counseling is primarily a psychological system of unconscious needs that
supposedly motivates all behavior; this system has been derived from
Freudian (the "unconscious") and humanistic (a "hierarchy of needs") psy-
chology, with great emphasis on so-called emotional needs.]
- Howard Hendricks is currently doing Teammates marriage seminars with
Bruce and Donna Cook. The Cooks are not biblically-based teachers, but
are even more psychologically- oriented than Hendricks and Stanley. Bruce
Cook is President of Rapha Southeast, which a Teammates' brochure
describes as "a Christ-centered counseling ministry based in Atlan- ta."
The 10-tape Teammates video series heavily promotes temperament surveys,
personal- ity testing, and "individual needs" analysis. Strangely,
Teammates is endorsed by Charles Stanley (who also happens to be
unbiblically-separated from his wife!): "Teammates is
one of the very best tools we have to help marriage partners. Many
couples continue to ex- press the incredibly positive impact of this
program in enriching their marriage [but appar- ently not for Stanley and
his wife]. I heartily recommend Teammates."
- Stanley's evangelism efforts have become quite ecumenical-he endorsed
Pat Robertson's initial efforts to form "a grass roots coalition of
Evangelicals, conservative Catholics, and their allies ... to make
government and the media responsible to our concerns. It's high time we
realize strength that comes through unity." (Reported in the September
1990 Omega Let- ter.) Robertson began this effort in 1989 with the
formation of the Christian Coalition.
In 1990, Robertson started the American Center For Law and Justice
(ACLJ), a law group providing free legal counsel for Christians in
battle with "anti-God, anti-family groups." (ACLJ has a $3 million 1992
budget and 11 full-time attorneys in four cities.) Executive director of
the ACLJ is former Ohio prosecutor Keith Fournier, currently a charismatic
Catholic activist, Dean of Evangelism and legal counsel at the Roman
Catholic (Franciscan) University of Steubenville in Ohio, and author of
Evangelical Catholics (which book is a plea for Protestants to join
Catholics in a joint evangelization effort; i.e., an "evangelistic
endeavor" that will "evangelize" the world by the year 2000). Fournier,
speaking of Stan- ley and others in Evangelical Catholics: "I found not
only a tremendous openness to my presence but also a growing respect for
my church and a thawing in what had been hard ice in the past."
- In 1987, Bill Bright of the ecumenical Campus Crusade for Christ,
founded a "broad-based coa- lition of denominations and World Christian
leaders" called New Life 2000. Billy Graham is the honorary chairman of
an advisory board of 1000 leading Christians. These so-called Christian
leaders include James Dobson from Focus on the Family, James Kennedy of
Cor- al Ridge Ministries, Charles Stanley, E.V. Hill, and Ted Engstrom
(founder of World Vision and acting chairman of the committee). Jay Gary
is an author, consultant, and part- ner with New Age occultist, Robert
Muller. (Gary is directly promoting the philosophies of the World
Parliament of Religions, the United Nations agenda for education via
Robert Mueller's Global Core curriculum, and Global 2000, a plan whose
goals include reduction of the world's population by the year 2000. In a
best seller entitled Megatrends 2000, en- dorsed by Gary/Muller's
newsletter as well as New Ager Marilyn Ferguson, the author de- votes an
entire chapter to religion, speaking favorably of New Age perspectives.)
Jay Gary is also communications consultant with "New Life 2000," CCC's
A.D. 2000 counterpart.
Stanley is also involved in another ecumenical evangelism
organization-the CoMission, a coalition of over 60 "evangelical" groups
chaired by Bruce Wilkinson, the ecumenical head of Walk Thru The Bible
Ministries. Members besides Stanley's In Touch ministries in- clude:
Campus Crusade for Christ, Moody Bible Institute, Youth For Christ, Church
of God, and Biola. The CoMission is recruiting volunteers to raise funds
to spend a year teach- ing Russian teachers Christian ethics and morality.
The CoMission has the endorsement of the Russian Orthodox Church. The
project must be turned over to Russian leadership by 1997. (Reported in
the 7/1/93 Calvary Contender.)
- Stanley has also evidently jumped on the band-wagon of the charismatic
spiritual warfare move-\tab ment. The 1/9/93 Bulletin of Stanley's First
[Southern] Baptist Church of Atlanta contained the following
announcement: "Spiritual Warfare Conference-Saturday and Sunday, Janu-
ary 15 and16. Speakers: Dr. Mark I. Bubeck [former professor at Moody
Bible Institute, author, and self-proclaimed "spiritual warfare
counselor" (Center for Counseling, Sioux City, IA)], Dr. Victor M.
Matthews [demon-deliverance teacher at Grand Rapids Baptist Seminary],
and Dr. C. Fred Dickason [Professor and Chairman of the Theology Depart-
ment at Moody Bible College, where he has been teaching students "demon
deliverance" since 1961]. [In a 2/94 letter to "Friends of IN TOUCH,"
Stanley writes: "When Satan puts an immoral thought in your mind, reject
it. When he tempts you, thank God for His way of escape. When he
oppresses your spirit or emotions, tell him to leave 'in Jesus' name.'"]
As a result of this conference, thousands of Christians (12,000 members)
were subjected to the concentrated efforts of three leading veterans
(40-plus years) of the warfare, demon-
deliverance movement-plus all their Satan-/demon-centered books. Some of
the message
titles were: "Interfacing Our Three Enemies," "Spiritual Warfare
Counseling," "Practical Benefits of Spiritual Warfare," and "Helping
People Grow Toward Freedom." These char- ismatic meetings, seminars,
conferences, and books, are not Christ-centered, but rather Sa- tan- and
demon-centered.
- In his 1994 book How To Listen To God, Stanley espouses the belief that
God continues to speak to man today outside of His Word (i.e. special
revelation) (pp.15-16; 81-82), and that he has been specifically used by
God as a conduit/channel for that special revelation to others! (pp.
15-16). Stanley even claims to have had a vision from God (p. 11), and
that those who rely solely on Scripture are missing out on all that God
has for them (p. 128). He even spends a whole chapter on "Identifying
the Voice of God," which turns out to be nothing but a guessing game.
- In 1992, Radio Bible Class's Discovery House Publishers published a
revised edition of Oswald Chambers 1935 daily devotional classic My
Utmost for His Highest. This revised edition is billed as "an updated
edition in today's language." It was revised/edited by James Rei- mann,
who has been a part of Charles Stanley's ministry "for over 20 years."
Stanley says this about the revised edition in its Foreword:
"I am greatly encouraged to see these powerful daily devotions updated
with more contemporary expressions. The purpose of this edition is to
make it more readable and easily understood. Not a single truth has been
altered even to the slightest degree. x" (Emphasis added.)
One only need read the devotional for February 10th, "Is Your Ability To
See God Blind- ed?" (in Chambers words, "Is Your Imagination of God
Starved?"), to understand that truth has been altered by Mr. Reimann. In
the text of the 2/10 devotional, in three instances where Chambers writes
of "imagination," Reimann substitutes the word "visualize" or "vis-
ualization." Can Mr. Reimann possibly be unaware that in "today's
language" visualiza- tion is an occult technique?! [In fact,
visualization is the most powerful occult technique
available-visualizing an entity, even "God" or "Christ," puts one in touch
with a masquer- ading demon (Dave Hunt, Beyond Seduction, 190-240).]
- In an August, 1990, advertising flier sent to parents that home school
their children, Stanley's In Touch Ministries offered to sell a
Personality Profile test package (for $30.00) that prom- ises to, "build
your child's self-esteem, discover what motivates their actions ... under-
stand recurring patterns of behavior, provide appropriate discipline and
instruction geared to their specific temperament, prepare your children
to deal with peer pressure through a
positive self-image, and make your job as a parent less frustrating and
more rewarding." The test results are also promised to provide "a
classical personality pattern(s)," for each child, such as achiever,
perfectionist, persuader, etc., in order to describe the child's emo-
tions, goals, strengths, weaknesses, group behavior, and value system,
all in order to
"transform" the parent's relationship with his child; i.e., "The
Personality Profile will help your child prepare for future career
decisions while building an environment where your child may avoid
negative peer pressure and grow spiritually." (Emphasis added.)
Stanley's Personality Profile is merely another psychological
testing/personality typing gim- mick, of which all such tests have been
proven in the past to have insufficient statistical va- lidity or
reliability, either in measuring personality traits or in using such
traits to successful- ly motivate or modify behavior. (See PsychoHeresy,
pp. 74-75, and Four Temperaments, Astrology & Personality Testing, both
by Martin and Deidre Bobgan, EastGate Publishers, Santa Barbara, CA, for
excellent analyses of the worthlessness of psychological and per-
sonality testing.)
- Smalley's "Love Is A Decision" Seminar (Smalley & Trent) for those
"desiring to strengthen their relationships" was held at Stanley's First
Baptist Church 9/27/91-9/28/91. The Sem- inar was advertised as endorsed
by Dobson's Focus On The Family and cost $35 per per- son. Topics
included (7/28/91 The Witness): "The Incredible Worth of a Woman"; "Five
Ways To Love and Network Your Kids"; and "How To Discover and Maximize
Your Per- sonality Strengths"
- Stanley's church teaches self-love/self-esteem to children in its
beginners Sunday School classes and has held numerous seminars on
"building your child's self-esteem." One publication staes, "Try
teaching pre-schoolers. Showing a toddler the wonders of nature or how
won- derfully he/she is made and unconditionally loved happens to be a
great training ground for sharing your faith" (7/28/91 The Witness).
- Stanley's psychologizing is evident throughout the materials he sends
to those on his mailing list. Just as an example, in the 1/93 In Touch
magazine, Stanley speaks of reaching "emo- tional overload[s]" due to
childhood problems. He teaches unconditional love for others (1/6),
self-love for yourself (1/7), self-forgiveness necessary to truly enjoy
the liberation
that God's forgiveness brings (1/7), self-worth and self-esteem (1/8;
1/29), unconditional love and acceptance (1/8; 1/19), and intrinsic
worth (1/11). In the 6/93 and 7/93 In Touch magazines, Stanley says that
man is generally born good, but becomes unlikable only "with time and
abuse" (6/93); that man's greatest need is significance (6/17); that
self-esteem and self-worth are necessary for good husband-wife
relationships (6/17); and that it is impor- tant to instill feelings of
worth in your child so that he may experience "healthy growth and
stability" and not struggle "with the acceptance of God's love and grace"
(7/20). Moreover, in the 9/93 In Touch magazine, Stanley quotes favorably
from psychologist and mystic Richard Foster's book The Celebration of
Discipline (9/22). (Foster is the head of Reno- vare, an international
ecumenical organization that espouses the use of guided imagery and
visualization as means of obtaining "personal spiritual renewal.") In the
11/93 In Touch magazine, Stanley advertises for sale the books of
psychologist James Dobson (When God Doesn't Make Sense) and ecumenical
Catholic-sympathizer Charles Colson (The Body).
The 10/94 In Touch magazine featured a four-page article by Stanley
titled, "When We Feel Inferior." Stanley claims that: "x along with my
stepfather's words that I was 'good for nothing and would never amount
to anything,' only helped to reinforce my struggle with low self-esteem,
an emotional conflict I would fight for years to come. Anytime we buy
into feelings of inferiority, our minds become clouded with a sense of
self-doubt and inse- curity. But when God sees us, He sees tremendous
potential. He loves us unconditionally and accepts us right where we
are. x When others do not approve, but criticize us, we feel a loss of
worthiness and self-esteem. x Each of us at some point in life struggles
with feel- ings of inferiority. x countless housewives struggle with
depression and low self-esteem because they feel inferior to their
friends who work in an office along with its perks. x we can dare to
disregard the idea that we are nobody. We no longer need to deceive
ourselves about our true self-identity; we know we are somebody to God.
x God loves you x no matter how rich or poor, you can step toward Him
and tell Him: 'Lord, I need You. I feel so inferior, and it hurts so
badly.' He will come to your aid and give you a place of rest, a sense
of worthiness, and a vision of hope for the future. x With God there is
always hope. He sees your life and knows exactly what it takes to turn
your thinking around. You are a person of worth, because God is worthy
and He lives inside of you. This is where inferiority stops and courage
and self-worth are born."
On the inside cover of the same issue of In Touch, Stanley says: "The
struggle with inferi- ority can be all consuming. x even affects the
tenor of our fellowship with Christ. The less we think of ourselves, the
more grueling our emotional journey through life. An un- stable childhood
deposited layers of inferiority in my thinking and behavior that discour-
aged me for many years. First, I realized that inferiority is just a
feeling. x What others say or do or how the past affects you may cause
you to feel inferior; but from God's per- spective of truth, you are
fully adequate, competent, and worthy. He loves us uncondition- ally, x
Shifting your mental focus from feelings to the truth of Scripture is
God's way to surmount the emotional gravity of inferiority. x Believe
what He declares true about you, and slowly you will find the feelings
of inferiority diminish in intensity. x The Lord has a very special plan
for you because you are somebody very special to Him."
- For more detailed information on Stanley's apparent love for
"Christian" pop psychology and the psychological gospel, see the
following tape message indices: (1) "Unmet Needs"-9/92; (2) "Childhood
Memories"-2/91; "Self-Rejection"-2/90.
Biblical Discernment Ministries - Revised 11/94
Frank Lane
In article <831490...@amsmyth.demon.co.uk>,
Annabel Smyth <Ann...@amsmyth.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>and the names of Josh McDowell and Charles Swindoll ring
>faint bells, but I can't think in what context.
Josh is the author of various books of apologetics (including one which has
been mentioned on the "Alpha Course" thread. He also wrote a book called
"Guide to Understanding Your Bible" which teaches how to do real in-depth
Bible Study. Very good if you happen to have 36 hours free each day. On the
whole he's a fairly "sound" evangelical writer.
Frank
Kevin King
In message <4mpea5$c...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
disc...@aol.com (DISCERN7) writes:
> FOR THOSE WHO WANT SPECIFIC INFORMATION ON A TEACHER. THIS IS JUST ONE OF
> THE MANY REPORTS WE HAVE.
> Charles Stanley
> [rest snipped]
Thank you. I think that is more than enough to satisfy us that
these postings are not wanted on this newsgroup.
--
Kevin King, SANE Solutions
Kvilestad, Swinister, Sandwick, Shetland, ZE2 9HH, UK.
Fax: +44 (0)1950 431606 e-mail:kevin...@zetnet.co.uk
http://www.zetnet.co.uk/users/kking/
Jack Roberts
Alan Zanker (al...@bittern.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: Interesting and useful post ... but since the Russians have been
: Christian for 1000 years and Mr McDowell ... well ... isn't this a
: case of teaching granny to suck eggs?
The British have been Christian of sorts for 1000 years, but that does not
mean they don't need mission work! ;-) The presence of a Church in a
country does not make believers of its people.
Jack Roberts
Jack Roberts
Kevin King (kevin...@zetnet.co.uk) wrote:
: In message <4mpea5$c...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
: disc...@aol.com (DISCERN7) writes:
: > FOR THOSE WHO WANT SPECIFIC INFORMATION ON A TEACHER. THIS IS JUST ONE OF
: > THE MANY REPORTS WE HAVE.
: > Charles Stanley
: > [rest snipped]
: Thank you. I think that is more than enough to satisfy us that
: these postings are not wanted on this newsgroup.
Actually, I thought it was an excellent bit of satire!
Jack Roberts
Annabel Smyth
In article <4mpltd$5...@news.enterprise.net>
la...@enterprise.net "Frank Lane" writes:
Thanks, Frank!
Robert Billing
In article <31904b67...@news.demon.co.uk>
al...@bittern.demon.co.uk "Alan Zanker" writes:
> Interesting and useful post ... but since the Russians have been
> Christian for 1000 years and Mr McDowell ... well ... isn't this a
> case of teaching granny to suck eggs?
Some parts of the UK have been nominally X for longer, but could do
with a good foray now and then.
--
I am Robert Billing, Christian, inventor, traveller, cook and animal
lover, I live in England, near 0:46W 51:22N. "How strange-
indeed, how perverse- to weep for a machine! Even one with as complex
and temperamental a personality as the Mark I..." Arthur C Clarke
David Aldridge
I thought we already had a list of FCS and so on? Do we have
to add yet *another* category - those who actually "counsel"
others in order to help them.
And there was I actually thinking that people who helped others
and preached the gospel *were* doing what they should as
christians. Oh well!!!!!!
(I haven't read the whole post, but it doesn't help when one of
the first references is taken completely out of context and
then used to justify their own stance on judging others - see
"Why the list" and John 7:24 as the reference.)
--
David C. Aldridge
email: d...@ray.npl.co.uk / emp...@brunel.ac.uk
WWW: http://http1.brunel.ac.uk:8080/~empgdca/
If God had meant us to be naked, we would have been born that way.
If God had intended Man to Walk, He would have given him Feet.
If God had intended Man to Smoke, He would have set him on Fire.
Craig Chilton
al...@bittern.demon.co.uk (Alan Zanker) wrote:
>xan...@sbt.net (Craig Chilton) wrote:
>>Josh McDowell is an arch-conservative, but otherwise is
>>relatively harmless. To his credit, McDowell works hard to carry out
>>the great Commission, and has led many good Christian forays into
>>Russia.
>Interesting and useful post ... but since the Russians have been
>Christian for 1000 years and Mr McDowell ... well ... isn't this a
>case of teaching granny to suck eggs?
Actually, Alan, I'm pretty sure that Josh has such a fervent
ministry in Russia BECAUSE so many of them are Christian, despite the
efforts of Communism foir 7 decades to snuff out that faith. He
provides them with Bibles, excellent books he has written, and a
wonderful teaching ministry to all who hear him and those who
accompany him. Communism left Russia with an incredible dearth of
Christian literature, and Bibles are still FAR from commonplace there.
I've never been there with Josh, nor have I met him, but I do
know these things about him, and what he is doing.
On my own most recent (and 9th) trip to Russia, in 1993, I
happened to be there at Eastertime. I was AMAZED to see how much that
nation had transformed itself since the USSR went the way of all
"good" tyrannies. In Red Square, an enormous mural of Christ had been
erected (the way they used to do it with Lenin) to cover the facade of
the Historical Museum... which is at the other end of the square from
St. Basil's Cathedral (that fascinating building with the unique
domes). It was almost as amazing to me that our media here in America
didn't pick up on this phenomenon and report it; I got home to find
that no one here had any knowledge of it. But I have pictures!
BTW -- quick geography lesson for those who might enjoy it. I
paced off the length of Red Square from the Museum to St. Basils...
1,000 paces, almost eactly... so about 3,000 feet, or almost exactly 1
km. Going across the other way, it's about 1/3 as wide. As you're
walking from the Musuem to SB, the Kremlin wall (with Lenin's tomb at
it's base) is at your right, and the huge, 1/2-km.-long department
store, GUM, is at your left. Red Square is not inside the Kremlin,
but borders one side of that compound. The Kremlin is an historical
fortress, containing many splendid gold-domed cathedrals, the building
that had contained the Supreme Soviet (governing body), the Czar's
Cannon (which never fired a shot, but is the world's largest), the
Czar's Bell (which may or may not have rung, but in any case, never
will again... because the enormous thing is broken and the piece that
broke off probably weighs at least a ton in its own right!) If you
play a portable radio or tape player on Red Square (at least up until
1991 or so), a cop will tap you on the shoulder and politely ask you
to turn it off. I learned that this is because the square is
considered somewhat sacred, and so this is out of respect. However,
it seems to be fine for lottery ticket vendors to make their sales
there... Back to the theme...
I was amazed at the mural... and at the fact that the crosses has
been restored to the tops of the churches, where bare spires had been
before. Bells were ringing throughout the city, to celebrate Easter,
and banners proclaiming, "He is risen!" were across many of the
streets.
Yes, Russia is quite Christian, at bottom... and so the people
have this tremendous yearning to make up for lost time! McDowell is
helping to fill that vacuum.
-- Craig Chilton xan...@sbt.net
Alan Zanker
disc...@aol.com (DISCERN7) wrote:
> The 10/94 In Touch magazine featured a four-page article by Stanley
>titled, "When We Feel Inferior." Stanley claims that: "x along with my
>stepfather's words that I was 'good for nothing and would never amount
>to anything,' only helped to reinforce my struggle with low self-esteem,
>an emotional conflict I would fight for years to come. Anytime we buy
>into feelings of inferiority, our minds become clouded with a sense of
>self-doubt and inse- curity. But when God sees us, He sees tremendous
>potential. He loves us unconditionally and accepts us right where we
>are. x When others do not approve, but criticize us, we feel a loss of
>worthiness and self-esteem. x Each of us at some point in life struggles
>with feel- ings of inferiority. x countless housewives struggle with
>depression and low self-esteem because they feel inferior to their
>friends who work in an office along with its perks. x we can dare to
>disregard the idea that we are nobody. We no longer need to deceive
>ourselves about our true self-identity; we know we are somebody to God.
>x God loves you x no matter how rich or poor, you can step toward Him
>and tell Him: 'Lord, I need You. I feel so inferior, and it hurts so
>badly.' He will come to your aid and give you a place of rest, a sense
>of worthiness, and a vision of hope for the future. x With God there is
>always hope. He sees your life and knows exactly what it takes to turn
>your thinking around. You are a person of worth, because God is worthy
>and He lives inside of you. This is where inferiority stops and courage
>and self-worth are born."
I gather we are supposed to feel shock and horror that a supposedly
Christian minister should write such things. But it sounds good stuff
to me ... could someone please explain precisely what's wrong with it?
Alan
--
Alan Zanker | e-mail:al...@bittern.demon.co.uk
Leeds |
lane
In article <4mpea5$c...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
disc...@aol.com (DISCERN7) wrote:
>FOR THOSE WHO WANT SPECIFIC INFORMATION ON A TEACHER. THIS IS JUST ONE OF
>THE MANY REPORTS WE HAVE.
>
>Charles Stanley
>
Another fearless expose fairly irrelevant to Christians in the United Kingdom.
Will someone please tell DISCERN7 and a few others that UK stands for the
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and is not yet one of the
smaller states of the USA>
Frank
DISCERN7
Ok well tell us the true context.....
David Aldridge
Annabel Smyth wrote:
> la...@enterprise.net "Frank Lane" writes:
> > Josh is the author of various books of apologetics (including one which has
> > been mentioned on the "Alpha Course" thread. He also wrote a book called
> > "Guide to Understanding Your Bible" which teaches how to do real in-depth
> > Bible Study. Very good if you happen to have 36 hours free each day. On the
> > whole he's a fairly "sound" evangelical writer.
> Thanks, Frank!
I heard him speak (I think it was at spring harvest) on parenting and parent
to child (teenagers too!) relationships. It was just after his book "How to
be a hero to your kids" (or something like it) was released.
I am not a parent, but I *was* a child - and the things he said were very
helpful and encouraging, both to teenagers (who the talk was based at) and
to older ones. I think one of his main messages at that time was the danger
of sex outside marriage, and the encouraging way that wonderful sex within
marriage can be viewed as a goal to be strived for in later life by keeping
oneself pure early on.
Generally very enjoyable (and charismatic in its non-christian form.)
David
John Mitchell
> On my own most recent (and 9th) trip to Russia, in 1993, I
> happened to be there at Eastertime. I was AMAZED to see how much that
> nation had transformed itself since the USSR went the way of all
> "good" tyrannies. In Red Square, an enormous mural of Christ had been
> erected (the way they used to do it with Lenin) to cover the facade of
> the Historical Museum... which is at the other end of the square from
> St. Basil's Cathedral (that fascinating building with the unique
> domes). It was almost as amazing to me that our media here in America
> didn't pick up on this phenomenon and report it; I got home to find
> that no one here had any knowledge of it. But I have pictures!
>
BTW - for all fellow organists !
I read a couple of years ago that they are discovering all sorts of historic
Organs in Russia - unaltered Cavaille-Coll's etc. - untouched for decades,
but in amazingly good states of preservation (thanks to the cold dry
climate). Organ recitals are packed out over there (here you'd be lucky
to get a dozen punters). Apparently they love foreign Organists giving
recital tours - I only wish I was that good.....!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
| John Mitchell (EMail j...@rheom.demon.co.uk)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If the Car had developed like the Computer. A Rolls Royce would cost
100 ukp, go at 1000 mph, do 100 miles per litre, never need servicing,
and once a year would spontaneously explode killing all its occupants.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Rowe
Al Soto said
> Are you aware of the FALSE TEACHING of many popular preachers and
> movements?
[snip]
Yep. Inevitable really. They all involve humans, and none of them is
Jesus Christ (though many of them pay him lots of respect). Therefore
they all get some things wrong. As do you and I.
Got something new to tell us?
digiTig
(Tim Rowe, but not timrowe, who is someone else)
Marie Thompson
Use the word of GOD (Exodus 3)
200. IAM confident in the Almighty.
201. IAM conscious of every thought that passes through my mind for six
weeks.
202. IAM conscious of every thought which passes through my mind and I
keep my thought qualified with perfection.
203. IAM conscious of the IAM acting.
204. IAM conscious of the indrawing of the IAM power.
205. IAM conscious of WHO and WHERE THAT Forgiving Intelligence is which
enables the Love to be abundant and produce harmony.
206. IAM conscious strength.
207. IAM consciously emulating Christ.
208. IAM consciously prepared to express the Divine Nature in all actions
in Life.
209. IAM consciously qualifying my thoughts with all kinds of happiness,
harmony and understanding.
210. IAM considerate of the power of GOD that keeps me alive forever.
211. IAM considering love perfectly.
212. IAM considering the IAM in goodness.
213. IAM constantly feeling the transforming IAM Presence.
214. IAM constantly looking within for sustenance.
215. IAM constantly meeting and exchanging help while the bodies are
asleep.
216. IAM contemplative.
217. IAM continually perceiving images of my existence and my desire.
218. IAM control over ecstatic joy.
219. IAM control over my outer mind.
220. IAM controlling my thought world.
221. IAM controls all my thoughts in pure Christ perfection.
222. IAM correct.
223. IAM cosmic harmony.
224. IAM Cosmic self conscious intelligent being.
225. IAM courageous and confident.
226. IAM courageous in the face of people, places and things.
227. IAM covering myself with Light as with a garment.
228. IAM creating and directing into the right channels of achievement.
229. IAM crowned with glory.
230. IAM dealing with mighty forces which are as real as reality can be.
231. IAM decent.
232. IAM decreeing for my world.
233. IAM deliberately turning to GOD.
234. IAM delicious meats and meals.
235. IAM delightful in the Law of the Lord.
236. IAM delivered.
237. IAM desire sustained by the determined use of the attention.
238. IAM desire, the indirect action of attention.
239. IAM determinedly reaching into the Light.
240. IAM determining what is the power acting for I gauge my activities
on love.
241. IAM diamonds.
242. IAM discerning.
243. IAM divine justice operating in my life and world.
244. IAM divine Love, Wisdom and Power.
245. IAM divine love.
246. IAM doing enough conscious work to sustain my balanced breathing.
247. IAM doing enough conscious work to sustain my decrees.
248. IAM doing good consciously.
249. IAM doing something new.
250. IAM doing this work for the greater benefic.
Peace, MMG
Alan Zanker
Marie Thompson <mar...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Use the word of GOD (Exodus 3)
<Sundry snips>
>221. IAM controls all my thoughts in pure Christ perfection.
>222. IAM correct.
<And again>
>233. IAM deliberately turning to GOD.
<More>
>241. IAM diamonds.
I am happier with the smaller number in St John's gospel ... at this
rate we've about another 6,000 of these to come ... will we get an
explanation?
Gareth McCaughan
Marie Thompson wrote:
> Use the word of GOD (Exodus 3)
>
> 200. IAM confident in the Almighty.
> 201. IAM conscious of every thought that passes through my mind for six
> weeks.
> 202. IAM conscious of every thought which passes through my mind and I
> keep my thought qualified with perfection.
> 203. IAM conscious of the IAM acting.
and so on at enormous length in this posting, and in another one.
Uh, Patrick, ... ?
--
Gareth McCaughan Dept. of Pure Mathematics & Mathematical Statistics,
gj...@pmms.cam.ac.uk Cambridge University, England.
cf...@globalnet.co.uk
>Al Soto said
>> Are you aware of the FALSE TEACHING of many popular preachers and
>> movements?
>[snip]
>Yep. Inevitable really. They all involve humans, and none of them is
>Jesus Christ (though many of them pay him lots of respect). Therefore
>they all get some things wrong. As do you and I.
>Got something new to tell us?
>digiTig
>(Tim Rowe, but not timrowe, who is someone else)
To Al Solo, you have made a very broad statement. Can you be more
specific in terms of what particular teachings are false, and who are
these teachers.
from R.C.