Mental illness

[hermeneutika]

It seems either my views are either offensive or rejected!! The Christian Church in my opinion is not a medical facility in the technical and scientific sense of the word. Surely if one has a broken leg one would not ring the pastor/vicar/minister and ask the minister for help in healing the broken leg? Whenever i have had a medical condition, eg toothache , i went to my dentist. I may have asked the Church to pray if i was say going for root canal work, as well. My point here being i went to the medical facility.
Now if someone comes into the Christian Church with some diagnosis of "mental illness"(whatever that means)why dont they go to the medical facility? What are they doing in the Christian Church?
in the eventuality of a broken leg, we have uncontravertible evidence that indeed the leg is broken, in the evidence of a x ray. Where is the evidence for "mental illness"?
Also if i am indeed a "Christian" whatever that means, then maybe that means i beleive in someone called Jesus the Christ. And not just the Person of Christ but also the teachings which go along with it, as revealed in what we sometimes call the New Testament.
Now maybe in the Christian Church i can beleive that actually Jesus the Christ was actually God incarnate in the flesh. And that this God can actually suspend the physical laws of the universe if He so chooses. We have the written testimony of the Word of God that He walked on water, raised the dead, healed the sick. Nothing is impossible to Him.
So in the Christian Church i think we ought to go to Christ for healing. And this includes so called "mental illness".
If the secularists have the right to come into the Christian Church touting their wares of psychiatry and psychology and pharmacology why have i not got the equal right to go into a hospital peaching the healing of Christ?

POLEMICS FOREVER!

[Kendall K. Down]

On 08/01/2024 12:03, hermeneutika wrote:

> Now if someone comes into the Christian Church with some diagnosis of "mental illness"(whatever that means)why dont they go to the medical facility? What are they doing in the Christian Church?

I don't think it is a question of "either/or". Let those who are sick
get appropriate medical help and let them also request the church to
pray for them.

God bless,
Kendall K. Down

[John]

On 08/01/2024 12:03, hermeneutika wrote:

> It seems either my views are either offensive or rejected!!

You're more than entitled to your views. Some will agree, some will
disagree. If your views are challenged and you don't like it, they why
post them>

Ken posts a lot of things I disagree with, but when I challenge him he
will debate with me, why don't you do the same?

The Christian Church in my opinion is not a medical facility in the
technical and scientific sense of the word. Surely if one has a broken
leg one would not ring the pastor/vicar/minister and ask the minister
for help in healing the broken leg? Whenever i have had a medical
condition, eg toothache , i went to my dentist. I may have asked the
Church to pray if i was say going for root canal work, as well. My
point here being i went to the medical facility.
> Now if someone comes into the Christian Church with some diagnosis of "mental illness"(whatever that means)why dont they go to the medical facility? What are they doing in the Christian Church?

I'm sure people do seek help from the medical profession for mental
illnesses. If someone has a mental illness why can't they go to church
though, does Jesus reject all those who are mentally ill?

> in the eventuality of a broken leg, we have uncontravertible evidence that indeed the leg is broken, in the evidence of a x ray. Where is the evidence for "mental illness"?

I suggest you visit a psychriactic unit, mental illness is a real thing,
I should know, my sister suffered from it for years. Why do you think it
isn't real?

> Also if i am indeed a "Christian" whatever that means, then maybe that means i beleive in someone called Jesus the Christ. And not just the Person of Christ but also the teachings which go along with it, as revealed in what we sometimes call the New Testament.
> Now maybe in the Christian Church i can beleive that actually Jesus the Christ was actually God incarnate in the flesh. And that this God can actually suspend the physical laws of the universe if He so chooses. We have the written testimony of the Word of God that He walked on water, raised the dead, healed the sick. Nothing is impossible to Him.
> So in the Christian Church i think we ought to go to Christ for healing. And this includes so called "mental illness".
> If the secularists have the right to come into the Christian Church touting their wares of psychiatry and psychology and pharmacology why have i not got the equal right to go into a hospital peaching the healing of Christ?

You can if you want, but if you go into a hospital preaching the healing
of Christ and that healing isn't given for whatever reason, where does
that leave the person not healed.

[John]

A sensible approach.

[Kendall K. Down]

On 09/01/2024 12:37, John wrote:

> You can if you want, but if you go into a hospital preaching the healing
> of Christ and that healing isn't given for whatever reason, where does
> that leave the person not healed.

Quite so. Condemned by some for not having enough faith, by others for
harbouring secret sin, yet it may simply be that God has chosen, for
whatever reasons, not to heal the person and condemnation is entirely
inappropriate.

[John]

Agreed.

[GB]

On 10/01/2024 09:20, Kendall K. Down wrote:

My cousin's wife (a lovely lady) was a Christian Scientist, and when she
became gravely ill she was told by her CS friends that she wasn't ill
and just needed to pray/believe harder. So, she didn't get any medical
treatment, and became much iller.

[Muhammad]

Stories like that exist in every society. If you only just believed...
which is what Brexit is turning into too.

The Semitic faith people, should be reaching out to available sources of
treatment. That means, going to the doctor etc, herbal doctor too if
that's your thing, in addition to the more conventional route.

Then, after that, after doing your bit to find the treatment and going
through the process, one is to ask God. That is to say, God, I've done
what I could by what you gave me...

And, it would be key to trust in God whatever the outcome.

[hermeneutika]

i worked in a psychiatric hospital for two years.....Apparently there are organic causes of mental disorder...eg some kind of chemical inbalance...
And then there are the other kind of mental disorders which seem to have no observable causes.

Even if one allows both kinds of disorder as being real......what about Christ? What about Christ's healing power? Is that not more effective than say Cognitive Behavioural Therapy(CBT)?

[hermeneutika]

But if they say they are taking their medication and doing their therapy......they seem to ignore me when i try to mention the healing that is available in Christ.......

[Kendall K. Down]

On 10/01/2024 19:18, hermeneutika wrote:

> But if they say they are taking their medication and doing their therapy......they seem to ignore me when i try to mention the healing that is available in Christ.......

That is their problem and nothing about which you should grow upset.

[Kendall K. Down]

On 10/01/2024 13:00, GB wrote:

> My cousin's wife (a lovely lady) was a Christian Scientist, and when she
> became gravely ill she was told by her CS friends that she wasn't ill
> and just needed to pray/believe harder. So, she didn't get any medical
> treatment, and became much iller.

Please don't think that "Christian Science", despite its name, has
anything to do with Christianity. It is neither more nor less than Mary
Baker Eddy-ism.

[Kendall K. Down]

On 10/01/2024 14:54, Muhammad wrote:

> And, it would be key to trust in God whatever the outcome.

Agreed.

[Kendall K. Down]

On 10/01/2024 19:16, hermeneutika wrote:

> Even if one allows both kinds of disorder as being real......what about Christ? What about Christ's healing power? Is that not more effective than say Cognitive Behavioural Therapy(CBT)?

Of course it is, but nevertheless, God may choose to work through CBT
just as He usually works through aspirin to relieve pain.

[Timreason]

It doesn't have much to do with science, either.

It's just bunkum.

Tim.

[Steve Hague]

On 10/01/2024 20:45, Kendall K. Down wrote:

True. It's neither Christian or scientific.

[Steve Hague]

>>
>>
>>
>>
> i worked in a psychiatric hospital for two years.....Apparently there are organic causes of mental disorder...eg some kind of chemical inbalance...
> And then there are the other kind of mental disorders which seem to have no observable causes.
>
> Even if one allows both kinds of disorder as being real......what about Christ? What about Christ's healing power? Is that not more effective than say Cognitive Behavioural Therapy(CBT)?
>
>

CBT is a very Christian way of looking at depression in particular, even
if the practitioners don't realise it. It's basically taking each
thought captive.

[Steve Hague]

>>>
>>> Quite so. Condemned by some for not having enough faith, by others
>>> for harbouring secret sin, yet it may simply be that God has chosen,
>>> for whatever reasons, not to heal the person and condemnation is
>>> entirely inappropriate.
>>>
>>
>> My cousin's wife (a lovely lady) was a Christian Scientist, and when
>> she became gravely ill she was told by her CS friends that she wasn't
>> ill and just needed to pray/believe harder. So, she didn't get any
>> medical treatment, and became much iller.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Stories like that exist in every society. If you only just believed...
> which is what Brexit is turning into too.
>
> The Semitic faith people, should be reaching out to available sources of
> treatment. That means, going to the doctor etc, herbal doctor too if
> that's your thing, in addition to the more conventional route.
>
> Then, after that, after doing your bit to find the treatment and going
> through the process, one is to ask God. That is to say, God, I've done
> what I could by what you gave me...
>
> And, it would be key to trust in God whatever the outcome.

I agree with that, but perhaps prayer should be our first option, even
if it's in the ambulance on the way to hospital. I've seen people prayed
for and healed, and others who weren't. There doesn't seem to be any
human logic to it. I did a study when I was a young Christian into how
Jesus healed people. Prayer didn't come in to it, it was accomplished by
a word of command or a statement of fact. Scary stuff if we try to do it
that way.
Steve Hague

>
>
>
>

[Timreason]

CBT worked well for me, during the lockdowns, even though it was all
done online by text. I did let the therapist know I'm a Christian, and
we worked through ways to apply the principle from a Christian
perspective. Previously I had used relaxation techniques, this time it
was 'Mindfulness', which is not such a 'New Thing' as some people think,
it was in use some 40+ years ago.

There is a Christian version, exploring 'The Sanctity of the Present
Moment', or something like that, which predated the more recent concept
of 'Mindfulness'.

Simplified, it's about engaging with the present moment, since for us
the present moment is the only time we can engage with God.

Tim.

[Muhammad]

On 11/01/2024 08:20, Steve Hague wrote:
>
>>>>

[snipped]

>
> I agree with that, but perhaps prayer should be our first option, even
> if it's in the ambulance on the way to hospital. I've seen people prayed
> for and healed, and others who weren't. There doesn't seem to be any
> human logic to it. I did a study when I was a young Christian into how
> Jesus healed people. Prayer didn't come in to it, it was accomplished by
> a word of command or a statement of fact. Scary stuff if we try to do it
> that way.
> Steve Hague
>

Ah. Yes, Indeed… The nuance I overlooked in my post.

[David Dalton]

Of course at times valid mystical experiences can be classed
as psychotic episodes by mental health professionals, and
sometimes by churches as well, mainly those who believe
that mystical experiences ended hundreds or thousands
of years ago. There is some discussion of spiritual
emergence vs spiritual emergency/psychotic episodes
on the Facebook group Shades of Awakening (moderated).

--
David Dalton dal...@nfld.com https://www.nfld.com/~dalton (home page)
https://www.nfld.com/~dalton/dtales.html Salmon on the Thorns (mystic page)
“Early morning jubilators, up to no good instigators... Sons of long
forgotten races, that the darkest night embraces” (Ron Hynes & D.O’D.)

[Kendall K. Down]

On 11/01/2024 08:20, Steve Hague wrote:

> I did a study when I was a young Christian into how
> Jesus healed people. Prayer didn't come in to it, it was accomplished by
> a word of command or a statement of fact. Scary stuff if we try to do it
> that way.

I think it safe to assume that Jesus had powers and privileges not
available to us.

We do know that on at least one occasion He was unable to perform any
great miracles because of the unbelief of the people in the particular town.

[Kendall K. Down]

On 10/01/2024 21:13, Timreason wrote:

> It doesn't have much to do with science, either.
> It's just bunkum.

Quite so.

[hermeneutika]

On the other hand when people come to the Church and take up our time on secular cures and ignore even the possibility of faith healing through Christ......
>
>

[Kendall K. Down]

On 14/01/2024 13:26, hermeneutika wrote:

> On the other hand when people come to the Church and take up our time on secular cures and ignore even the possibility of faith healing through Christ......

Again, not a matter over which you should get unduly exercised. Listen
to them or reject them as you please, and feel free to respond if anyone
asks for your opinion.

If they don't, then just ignore those you consider foolish. You are only
answerable for yourself.