Jesus and democracy

[hermeneutika]

Since we live in a democracy...demo=people cracy=power....rule by the people.

Here is a interesting document

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/228938/7577.pdf

It is all about the rights and responsibilities of the individual citizen in a democratic state.
So if indeed i am a Christian what rights and responsibilities ,do i have in the Church? It has been frequently said that the Church is not a democracy. . If that is so, what right does the Christian leadership have over me? Can they tell me how to vote for example? Or do we take the Lutheran position and say the individual conscience is inviolable?

But if as the citizen of a democratic state, i am perhaps even obliged morally to have an opinion on perhaps nearly all matters of publc polity? And that every so often i am expected to vote on matters of extreme importance. If that is the case then that vote is of crucial importance. And then which way one votes is a matter of a lot research. Especially on matters of foreign policy.

Perhaps as an alleged "Christian" i would then even attempt to have Christian values in Government. eg as a Christian who thinks abortion is a sin, I would then attempt to have abortion made illegal

Anyone know of any good teaching that addresses the issue of the Christian and Democracy-His/her rights and responsibilities?

[Kendall K. Down]

On 29/08/2021 10:44, hermeneutika wrote:

> So if indeed i am a Christian what rights and responsibilities ,do i have in the Church? It has been frequently said that the Church is not a democracy. . If that is so, what right does the Christian leadership have over me? Can they tell me how to vote for example? Or do we take the Lutheran position and say the individual conscience is inviolable?

*Some* churches are not democracies. Most free churches make at least a
nod in that direction.

> But if as the citizen of a democratic state, i am perhaps even obliged morally to have an opinion on perhaps nearly all matters of publc polity? And that every so often i am expected to vote on matters of extreme importance. If that is the case then that vote is of crucial importance. And then which way one votes is a matter of a lot research. Especially on matters of foreign policy.

Certainly one should seek to be as well-informed as possible.

God bless,
Kendall K. Down

[Jason]

On Sun, 29 Aug 2021 02:44:58 -0700, hermeneutika wrote:

> Since we live in a democracy...demo=people cracy=power....rule by the
> people.
>
> Here is a interesting document
>
> https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/
uploads/attachment_data/file/228938/7577.pdf
>
> It is all about the rights and responsibilities of the individual
> citizen in a democratic state.
> So if indeed i am a Christian what rights and responsibilities ,do i
> have in the Church? It has been frequently said that the Church is not a
> democracy. . If that is so, what right does the Christian leadership
> have over me? Can they tell me how to vote for example? Or do we take
> the Lutheran position and say the individual conscience is inviolable?

I think this is a very good question, but I think there are two questions
wrapped up in one.

The first is the part about "rights and responsibilities in the Church".
Here's where perhaps I differ slightly from the "standard" position of my
church (the CofE). The church setup isn't really a democracy, there is
Jesus at the top, with the Queen as the head of the Church, then layers
of Bishops and clergy before you get down to the man-in-the-pews. There
isn't a democracy in the sense that Jesus has set the agenda for us to
follow, and while we disagree with one another on some of the details, as
far as I know no churches "vote" on the 10 Commandments to decide which
ones to follow or which ones to throw out.

I differ from the standard line of the CofE as I'm not sure (other than
for so-called "reasons of good order") why various things can *only* be
done by ordained clergy and not by lay members of the church: some things
are a bit too hierarchical for my taste. That said, if churches decided
everything by voting on it, the wider church would descend into chaos...

The second part of your question is about what the church should be
telling us to do outside of the church setting. I don't seen any
alternative to leave that to individual conscience and circumstances.
Just look at each of us here, I'm sure we all agree with "look after the
widows and orphans", but (I'm sure) we have vastly different ideas as to
how this is best achieved.

[Kendall K. Down]

On 31/08/2021 12:27, Jason wrote:

> The first is the part about "rights and responsibilities in the Church".
> Here's where perhaps I differ slightly from the "standard" position of my
> church (the CofE). The church setup isn't really a democracy, there is
> Jesus at the top, with the Queen as the head of the Church, then layers
> of Bishops and clergy before you get down to the man-in-the-pews.

Given that God created us and "owns" us, it is only to be expected that
the church will not be a democracy. That said, I firmly maintain the
priesthood of all believers, thereby cutting out the intermediate
layers! I recognise that an earthly church will require an earthly
administration, but that must never be mistaken for a divine institution.

> I differ from the standard line of the CofE as I'm not sure (other than
> for so-called "reasons of good order") why various things can *only* be
> done by ordained clergy and not by lay members of the church: some things
> are a bit too hierarchical for my taste. That said, if churches decided
> everything by voting on it, the wider church would descend into chaos...

Hmmm. As I pointed out yesterday, most free churches maintain some sort
of democratic order, with elected officials and policies voted upon in
some way. In far too many of them the voting is really a sham and the
church is a hierarchy by a different name, but at least the pretense is
there.

> The second part of your question is about what the church should be
> telling us to do outside of the church setting. I don't seen any
> alternative to leave that to individual conscience and circumstances.

Indeed.