Understanding the BCP approach to Holy Communion
Kim Tame
>
> In a message on Sat, 14 Nov 1998, Jb10661 wrote:
>
> >This term's work has been rather different as we have been studying liturgy.
> >Comparative studies of the BCPand ASB etc. I have to do an assignment soon and
> >have three choices:
> >i) Create a service and then rip it to pieces to explain why you've put what
> >where-
>
> Am I allowed to boast that I got an "A" on that part of my exam
> when I trained as a Local Preacher? (Drats, I thought not).
>
LPs these days (including me) don't get grades anymore, just pass or
fail. (smugly not boasting that I passed).
Question: why does the BCP service include the Lord's Prayer twice?
Kim
Kim Tame
>
> In a message on Mon, 16 Nov 1998, Kim Tame wrote:
>
> >
> >LPs these days (including me) don't get grades anymore, just pass or
> >fail. (smugly not boasting that I passed).
>
> >
> >Question: why does the BCP service include the Lord's Prayer twice?
> >
> said by the Priest alone, sort of to prepare him (as it was then) for the
> service and the congregation joined in afterwards. I vaguely
> remember that we never even said "Amen" to the first Lord's Prayer,
> although we did to the C for P.
>
> [1] Almighty God,
> to whom all hearts are open,
> all desires known,
> and from whom no secrets are hidden:
> cleanse the thoughts of our hearts
> by the inspiration of your Holy Spirit,
> that we may perfectly love you,
> and worthily magnify your holy name;
> through Christ our Lord. Amen.[2]
>
> [2] That's the ASB version; I couldn't find the BCP one in Visual
> Liturgy.
> --
At a BCP evensong, we sang the Lord's prayer, and said it later on in
the service (that might have been the other way round), which mystified
me somewhat.
Kim
Andy McMullon
<URL:mailto:mtc...@globalnet.co.uk> wrote:
> On 16/11/98 04:14, in message <365017...@virgin.net>, Kim Tame
>
> > Question: why does the BCP service include the Lord's Prayer twice?
>
> Prayer twice in the 1662 Evensong service.
>
> This was so that 400 years later when members of the Prayer Book Society
> make snide and ill-informed comments about the 'unscriptural' nature of
> 'repetition' in choruses, I would have a ready-made put-down....
Interesting thought.
As the General Synod continues to prepare the C of E for the replacement
of the Alternative Service Book with the newer, revised Common Worship
I have heard that there is an ASB society dedicated to its continuation!
After using some of the truly terrible 'new' collects for the Revised
Common Lectionary and the anodyne Eucharistic Prayers I'm almost tempted
to join them..........
--
Andy: skyp...@bigfoot.com / http://www.mcfamily.demon.co.uk
New aircraft pictures at http://www.mcfamily.demon.co.uk/bbmf.htm
David Anderson
>
> At a BCP evensong, we sang the Lord's prayer, and said it later on in
> the service (that might have been the other way round), which mystified
> me somewhat.
>
thing and that one should pray it as often as possible. Cranmer was
cobbling together most of his services from two or more monastic
services; I suspect that he felt that fewer services shouldn't mean
fewer recitations of the Lord's Prayer.
David Anderson
Andy McMullon
<URL:mailto:Pe...@arch-northolt.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <ant17125...@mcfamily.demon.co.uk>, Andy McMullon
> <skyp...@bigfoot.com> writes
> >As the General Synod continues to prepare the C of E for the replacement
> >of the Alternative Service Book with the newer, revised Common Worship
> >I have heard that there is an ASB society dedicated to its continuation!
> It is, of course, a spoof, invented by students at St John's College
> Nottingham.
Who in my time there held a burial service for the BCP.......!
And I was told about it by a member of the Liturgical Commission too!
K.HAIGH-HUTCHINSON
>
> Andy McMullon <skyp...@bigfoot.com> writes
> >
> >Interesting thought.
> >
> >As the General Synod continues to prepare the C of E for the replacement
> >of the Alternative Service Book with the newer, revised Common Worship
> >I have heard that there is an ASB society dedicated to its continuation!
> >
What is needed, is two liturgy revisions.
When the perfect liturgy has been in use for a reasonable number of
years, then you bring out another revision.
When everyone howls that the first one was wonderful, then you fight and
fight, and then, after you have made the struggle look good enough, you
give in.
You say that if the people are determined to stay stuck in the past,
then you are going to let them. The wonderful liturgical idea has been
dropped and it will not be discussed again.
Then everyone is happy. They think they have won a victory for tradition
and the church is happily using the new liturgy that you wanted all
along. The second was only a dummy run to make people realise that the
first was a good idea after all.
Hope that is not what is being done about ASB though!
Kathy HH
Malcolm Jenner
The use of the Lord's Prayer at the start of Mattins and Evensong comes from
the monastic usage in which the Lord's Prayer (amongst other things) was said
silently by those present before the start of the audible service with the
initial responses. It has nothing to do with Cranmer's combining of different
services into one - that only affects the Canticles and Collects.
Archimandrite Kyril Jenner
(who is surprised that none of the Anglicans commenting on this appeared to be
aware of this)
Andy McMullon
<URL:mailto:mtc...@globalnet.co.uk> wrote:
> Someone once asked an anglican bishop "Are you interested in Liturgy, my
> Lord ?" He replied: "No, madam, I am not. Neither do I collect stamps."
The trouble is that liturgy is seen as a remote and rarified interest
for the few. Actually it is far more important than that.
Properly understood as 'the work of the people' it is relevant to us
all. Of course the way the liturgy is done in many places makes it seem
as if it is nothing at all to do with them!
I led a study group of non-Anglicans on the use of liturgy in worship.
Rather than study texts we spent a valuable session putting together a
liturgy of our own for the end of the evening (ie a service of Compline)
and then used it for worship.
No-one complained that they were uninterested in liturgy after that!
Andy
Hope is the thing with feathers
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all. Emily Dickinson (1830-1886)