Olivia

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Kendall K. Down

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Aug 9, 2022, 12:39:42 AMAug 9
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Apparently Olivia Newton John died yesterday - condolences to all
affected, of course. Among the news reports is one that remarks on her
"faith" - which appears to be the usual wishy-washy "I think there is
something spiritual out there" shared by so many these days.

However the report then claims that when Olivia was pregnant and in
danger of losing her daughter, she made "a pact with God" that she would
recite the Lord's Prayer every night if her daughter was saved. The
child was born safely and Olivia kept her bargain.

What puzzles me is why she should think that reciting Jesus' model
prayer would make any difference to some amorphous "spirituality"? What
is there about the words of that prayer that affects "the energies of
all the people you love"?

On the other hand, if there actually is something special about Jesus
and the prayer He taught, might it not be a good idea to focus on Him?
How about going to church, where *everyone* recites the Lord's Prayer?
How about reading the Bible and discovering what else Jesus said which
might change one's life?

Olivia may have been beautiful and vivacious and a splendid actress, but
logic and rationality were obviously not her strong points.

God bless,
Kendall K. Down


John

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Aug 9, 2022, 8:39:41 AMAug 9
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On 09/08/2022 05:32, Kendall K. Down wrote:

> Apparently Olivia Newton John died yesterday - condolences to all
> affected, of course. Among the news reports is one that remarks on her
> "faith" - which appears to be the usual wishy-washy "I think there is
> something spiritual out there" shared by so many these days.

> However the report then claims that when Olivia was pregnant and in
> danger of losing her daughter, she made "a pact with God" that she would
> recite the Lord's Prayer every night if her daughter was saved. The
> child was born safely and Olivia kept her bargain.
>
> What puzzles me is why she should think that reciting Jesus' model
> prayer would make any difference to some amorphous "spirituality"? What
> is there about the words of that prayer that affects "the energies of
> all the people you love"?
>
> On the other hand, if there actually is something special about Jesus
> and the prayer He taught, might it not be a good idea to focus on Him?
> How about going to church, where *everyone* recites the Lord's Prayer?
> How about reading the Bible and discovering what else Jesus said which
> might change one's life?


Yeah, but Cliff Richard was her mate, surely that counts!!

She was a spiritual person, but I wouldn't say she was a Christian,
certainly not in the way you understand it. Then again, the vast
majority of the 49% of people in the UK who say they are Christian can
probably be discounted for the same reason.

But she brought joy to a lot of people through her singing, including
me. She is one of my favourite singers, and wasn't a bad person. I
appreciate that probably cuts no ice with Him upstairs, but being a good
person is surely better than being a bad person?
>
> Olivia may have been beautiful and vivacious and a splendid actress, but
> logic and rationality were obviously not her strong points.

What the flying fig has logic and rationality got to do with it?
Christianity (or at least my understanding of it) requires a child like
acceptance of Christ as your Saviour. Unless you've been touched by the
Holy Spirit, going to church, reading the bible, reciting prayers etc,
won't get you anywhere.




Mark Goodge

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Aug 9, 2022, 11:39:42 AMAug 9
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On Tue, 9 Aug 2022 05:32:49 +0100, "Kendall K. Down"
<kendal...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>Olivia may have been beautiful and vivacious and a splendid actress, but
>logic and rationality were obviously not her strong points.

There are a lot of irrational Christians with all sorts of odd beliefs. I
don't think God holds that against them. We don't earn salvation by logic.

Mark


Kendall K. Down

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Aug 9, 2022, 2:39:42 PMAug 9
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On 09/08/2022 13:34, John wrote:

> Yeah, but Cliff Richard was her mate, surely that counts!!

In my church, at least, we look to Jesus for our salvation, not Cliff
Richards.

> She was a spiritual person, but I wouldn't say she was a Christian,
> certainly not in the way you understand it. Then again, the vast
> majority of the 49% of people in the UK who say they are Christian can
> probably be discounted for the same reason.

Possibly. Unfortunately God's standard for entry into heaven is not
based on democratic voting.

> But she brought joy to a lot of people through her singing, including
> me. She is one of my favourite singers, and wasn't a bad person. I
> appreciate that probably cuts no ice with Him upstairs, but being a good
> person is surely better than being a bad person?

Obviously - but it is one of the fundamental tennets of Christianity
that we are not saved by works. Have you not come across that doctrine
before?

> What the flying fig has logic and rationality got to do with it?
> Christianity (or at least my understanding of it) requires a child like
> acceptance of Christ as your Saviour. Unless you've been touched by the
> Holy Spirit, going to church, reading the bible, reciting prayers etc,
> won't get you anywhere.

Ah, so you agree that works don't count.

The logic and rationality apply to reciting the Lord's Prayer but
neglecting to learn about the Lord.

Kendall K. Down

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Aug 9, 2022, 2:39:42 PMAug 9
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On 09/08/2022 16:37, Mark Goodge wrote:

> There are a lot of irrational Christians with all sorts of odd beliefs. I
> don't think God holds that against them. We don't earn salvation by logic.

It is unfortunately true that many (most?) Christians lack a decent
understanding of their religion - but at least they worship the one true
God and His Son Jesus Christ. They do not put their faith for the
afterlife in "the energy of loving friends" (whatever that may be).

So I agree that God does not hold ignorance or even stupidity against
people, but if someone makes no attempt to learn about Him and worship
Him - which unfortunately seems to have been the case with the person
under discussion - I think it may be a very different story.

Of course, it is God Who knows all and Who judges. Thank God.

John

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Aug 10, 2022, 6:09:40 AMAug 10
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On 09/08/2022 19:36, Kendall K. Down wrote:
> On 09/08/2022 16:37, Mark Goodge wrote:


> So I agree that God does not hold ignorance or even stupidity against
> people, but if someone makes no attempt to learn about Him and worship
> Him - which unfortunately seems to have been the case with the person
> under discussion - I think it may be a very different story.

Without God being involved then Olivia would have had no chance of
becoming a Christian. You seem to be saying we have to reach out to God
properly before He can reach out to us. It's actually the other way round.



Kendall K. Down

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Aug 10, 2022, 3:49:42 PMAug 10
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On 10/08/2022 11:04, John wrote:

> Without God being involved then Olivia would have had no chance of
> becoming a Christian.  You seem to be saying we have to reach out to God
> properly before He can reach out to us.  It's actually the other way round.

I am sure that God reaches out to everyone and offers them opportunities
to learn about Him. We don't reach out to God first, but we do have to
respond when He reaches out to us.
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