On 06/12/2022 11:18, John wrote:
> Obviously if someone is born in a different country while their parents
> are abroad that wouldn't make them "nationality of said Country"
It would if the said country was America!
> So define what you think makes someone English, do they need to be true
> bred English with no trace of foreign ancestry? You'll be hard pressed
> to find a true English person in that respect.
As I have already remarked, there is such thing as "pure bred" anything.
Give her a couple of generations of intermarriage, when the skin tone
has lightened to a pleasing brown, and she might indeed be "English". In
the meantime, her dress, her hair style, her name, all proclaim that she
rejects the dominant culture of the British Isles. In what sense is she
I'll be she doesn't even like Marmite!
> Afro-Carribbean dear. You may be further shocked to learn that her
> parents actually gave her an English name, Marlene Headley, so as I
> said, this lady did have an agenda.
Funny, I was going to speculate on what name appeared on her birth
certificate. So my comment above about her rejecting English culture is
indeed true. So if she doesn't want to be English, why is she all offended?
> That's not the point though, the
> point of my posts is to defend black people who are born here and are
> racially profiled as not actually belonging here, regardless whether
> their name is Ayumbo Mnobo or Jane Smith.
No one, certainly not me and I doubt Lady Hussey, said or implied that
this woman doesn't belong here - though from what you say above, it
seems that she herself doesn't want to belong here but recognises that
if she went back to her precious Africa, she wouldn't be as well off
financially as here.
> And Lady Hussey's line of
> questioning was offensive, she assumed Ngozi was from a foreign country.
An entirely natural assumption.
> If after the second question she said. "I'm sorry dear, it was the
> African clothing that made me assume you were from Africa, do you have
> African roots? Changes the whole line of questioning and gives people
> like Ngozi the opportunity to explain more fully who they are.
Easy to be smart after the event.
> Because she isn't from Africa or the West Indies, she's from England.
> Surely someone shouldn't be defined by dress? If I decide to wear a
> kilt do I suddenly become a Scotsman? Say I meet up with people from
> Japan and become part of their community, do I become Japanese because I
> start wearing traditional Japanese clothing? Talk about stereotyping!
> As a Christian are you supposed to judge by appearances?
At least you would be making an attempt to fit in. If, however, you
persisted in eating fish 'n' chips, wore suit and tie and bowler hat,
adopted an exaggerated English accent - and then claimed to be Japanese,
I for one would not believe you. Not even if you had been born in Japan.
> My original question was how long does someone who has foreign parents
> need to live here before they are considered to be English? You came
> out with some claptrap about not being accepted as a local until 5 or
> more generations had passed. Given the small village in question is
> London, try answering the question again.
Well, when I lived in London, I knew a West Indian family who were more
English (and certainly more British) than most white people I know.
Lovely people. Dressed well, spoke well, behaved well - and were proud
to be British even though they came over on the Windrush. What a
contrast with the lady under discussion!
> What about second and third and beyond generations, are they still
> considered foreign because great great etc etc grandma was foreign?
It depends. Have you noticed how many Pakistani politicians over here
have been kicked out of office for corruption? They may have been born
here, they may be second or third generation, but they still have the
attitudes and behaviours of a Pakistani village panchayat. They are
definitely still foreign. On the other hand the family I refer to above
you hardly noticed the colour of their skin.
> More snipping to hide what you actually said. You effectively said you
> can't be English if you're black.
"Effectively" is not the same as "actually".
> Do you define yourself as Australian?
No, I'm a citizen of the world. I belong everywhere and nowhere.
(However, since you ask, I hold an Australian passport.)
>> And your fingers don't twitch when you see a battle axe?
> No, I've managed to tame her in the 36 years we've been married!!