php,mysqli,html

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hermeneutika

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Aug 7, 2022, 2:52:09 PMAug 7
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Are there any experts in php,mysqli html etc around here. I am in the process of writing a full Bible commentary( it may die the death in a couple of months!! unless the Lord God Almighty intervenes!!))

i have the basic shell up and running on my webserver.....but if there is always room for improvement and if teamwork is the way forward......then i somehow ditch my pride and ask for help!!

(ps i am a BSc Hon(Third) from the Open University mainly in computer and IT stuff. so perhaps not a complete novice?)



Kendall K. Down

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Aug 7, 2022, 3:09:43 PMAug 7
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On 07/08/2022 14:45, hermeneutika wrote:

> Are there any experts in php,mysqli html etc around here. I am in the process of writing a full Bible commentary( it may die the death in a couple of months!! unless the Lord God Almighty intervenes!!))

Er - what exactly is it you want? I would have thought that for writing
a Bible commentary anything from Notepad to Word would be sufficient!

God bless,
Kendall K. Down


John

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Aug 7, 2022, 4:39:43 PMAug 7
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On 07/08/2022 20:03, Kendall K. Down wrote:
> On 07/08/2022 14:45, hermeneutika wrote:
>
>> Are there any experts in php,mysqli html etc around here. I am in the
>> process of writing a full Bible commentary( it may die the death in a
>> couple of months!! unless the Lord God Almighty intervenes!!))

I know a bit about html, css etc but not php or mysql, although I do
know what thy are.


Mark Goodge

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Aug 7, 2022, 5:19:41 PMAug 7
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On Sun, 7 Aug 2022 06:45:45 -0700 (PDT), hermeneutika <hermen...@msn.com>
wrote:

>Are there any experts in php,mysqli html etc around here. I am in
>the process of writing a full Bible commentary( it may die the death
>in a couple of months!! unless the Lord God Almighty intervenes!!))

Presumably you're asking because (to answer Ken's parallel question) you
want to be able to publish your work on the web as you write it. In which
case, what you are doing is almost exactly the same as a blog, and therefore
blog software will be precisely what you need.

So the answer is to install Wordpress. Don't try to reinvent the wheel.

Mark


Kendall K. Down

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Aug 7, 2022, 7:39:41 PMAug 7
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On 07/08/2022 22:15, Mark Goodge wrote:

> So the answer is to install Wordpress. Don't try to reinvent the wheel.

I should point out, though, that if you simply want to create and
publish web pages, all you need is NotePad. Unlike WordPress, NotePad is
completely free - and you can then choose whoever hosts your website and
find someone cheaper than the £8.20 a month for the most basic WordPress
offering.

John

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Aug 8, 2022, 4:59:43 AMAug 8
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Notepad requires a knowledge of html Ken, then you still have to get a
domain and hosting. As Mark said, Wordpress will do the job adequately
and if Michael is interested I can set one up for him, including domain,
for £35.00 (lasts a a year and he can renew if he wants) Let me know if
you are Michael and I'll drop you an email (my email address isn't valid)

Alternatively there are several blogging websites out there that he
could use, including blogger.com and wordpress.com (which is a blogging
platform, not to confused with wordpress software (same company though))


Mark Goodge

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Aug 8, 2022, 12:39:42 PMAug 8
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Wordpress itself is free, and pretty much any web hosting service these days
will allow you to install it on your account. The OP says he has PHP and
MySQL on his web account, so he's almost certainly already got all he needs
for Wordpress to run.

There are hosted versions of Wordpress (including wordpress.com, run by the
creators of Wordpress), which will cost extra compared to a vanilla web
hosting account. But if you have any reasonable knowledge of IT matters then
installing it yourself is easy enough.

Mark


Mark Goodge

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Aug 8, 2022, 1:19:43 PMAug 8
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On Mon, 8 Aug 2022 09:53:16 +0100, John <mega...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 08/08/2022 00:33, Kendall K. Down wrote:
>> On 07/08/2022 22:15, Mark Goodge wrote:
>>
>>> So the answer is to install Wordpress. Don't try to reinvent the wheel.
>>
>> I should point out, though, that if you simply want to create and
>> publish web pages, all you need is NotePad. Unlike WordPress, NotePad is
>> completely free - and you can then choose whoever hosts your website and
>> find someone cheaper than the £8.20 a month for the most basic WordPress
>> offering.
>
>Notepad requires a knowledge of html Ken,

And, these days, also CSS, at least if you want to create web pages that are
standards compliant and more than just plain black and white.

Mark


Kendall K. Down

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Aug 8, 2022, 2:39:43 PMAug 8
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On 08/08/2022 18:11, Mark Goodge wrote:

>> Notepad requires a knowledge of html Ken,

> And, these days, also CSS, at least if you want to create web pages that are
> standards compliant and more than just plain black and white.

Indeed, though both are very easy to learn. I'm happy to supply
tutorials for both if Hermeneutika is interested.

Kendall K. Down

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Aug 8, 2022, 2:39:43 PMAug 8
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On 08/08/2022 09:53, John wrote:

> Notepad requires a knowledge of html Ken, then you still have to get a
> domain and hosting.

I realise that (I even mentioned the domain and hosting issue), but the
poster did enquire about html, which might indicate a willingness to learn.

I don't have any experience with WordPress, but the HTML produced by
other programs is awful!

> As Mark said, Wordpress will do the job adequately
> and if Michael is interested I can set one up for him, including domain,
> for £35.00 (lasts a a year and he can renew if he wants) Let me know if
> you are Michael and I'll drop you an email (my email address isn't valid)

In fact the Wordpress website offers the complete package at £2+ per
month - but only for the first year. After that you are bumped up to £8+
per month.

> Alternatively there are several blogging websites out there that he
> could use, including blogger.com and wordpress.com (which is a blogging
> platform, not to confused with wordpress software (same company though))

There are various free websites (you have to put up with advertising).
However I would recommend for him to write his commentary first and then
consider how he will distribute it. Not much point in forking out a lot
of money and never getting beyond Genesis 5.17

Stuart

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Aug 8, 2022, 6:19:41 PMAug 8
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In article <ee61e024-0aac-4203...@googlegroups.com>,
hermeneutika <hermen...@msn.com> wrote:
> Are there any experts in php,mysqli html etc around here. I am in the
> process of writing a full Bible commentary( it may die the death in a
> couple of months!! unless the Lord God Almighty intervenes!!))

That is one heck of a job, I wish you luck.

I have been reading the "Preaching the word" series of commentaries
(Crossway). I started during the first lockdown and, reading a chapter a
night, have now got as far as Psalm 11. There was no 2 kings unfortunately
so I read one from a different "series" and the Psalms only has a part
one, which goes as far as Psalm 41. Most books are by different authors,
with an overall series editor, R. Kent Hughes, who wrote the one on
Genesis, 600 pages, 75 chapters.

Frankly I wouldn't worry about php,mysqli html or anything else for the
moment, just get it written and proof read and then worry about how you
are going to present it to the world.

--
Stuart Winsor

Tools With A Mission
sending tools across the world
http://www.twam.co.uk/


Kendall K. Down

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Aug 9, 2022, 12:19:42 AMAug 9
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On 08/08/2022 23:17, Stuart wrote:

> That is one heck of a job, I wish you luck.

Indeed. On the other hand, undertaking the task is likely to lead to all
sorts of insights and understandings which a superficial reading misses,
so it is probably an idea we should all undertake!

> Most books are by different authors,
> with an overall series editor, R. Kent Hughes, who wrote the one on
> Genesis, 600 pages, 75 chapters.

That is because every book in the Bible has specialist issues and very
few people have the necessary skills and knowledge to be an expert on
everything. For example, the knowledge required to write a decent
commentary on the historical books (history, geography, archaeology,
etc) is very different from that required to comment on Psalsm or
Proverbs (primarily language - Hebrew, but also poetry from other
similar languages such as Ugaritic).

> Frankly I wouldn't worry about php,mysqli html or anything else for the
> moment, just get it written and proof read and then worry about how you
> are going to present it to the world.

Wise advice.

hermeneutika

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Aug 9, 2022, 3:39:42 AMAug 9
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ok

many thanks to everyone for your thoughts. For the record i am hosting my own websites on my own webserver, a raspberry pi. So all i have to pay for is the domain name, and five volts for the rpi! I have no problems installing Wordpress on my webserver. Again this does not cost me anything.
The main criticism that got to me was "do not reinvent the wheel". So yes i could do a wordpress install. or just use notepad. But the basic shell i now have disciplines me. I have the entire Bible on the website.And can add commentaries to each individual verse. fyi there are 31103 verses in the AV translation. 25 verses a day is just under 4 years! I might call it the working mans commentary, as i have no Bible College training, tho i do have a BSc Hon(Third) from the Open University. I take the prophet Amos as my role model?

Am 7:14 Then answered Amos, and said to Amaziah, I [was] no prophet, neither [was] I a prophet’s son; but I [was] an herdman, and a gatherer of sycomore fruit:

I have been a working bloke all my life. Hence the working mans commentary. Again many thanks for the input

John

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Aug 9, 2022, 8:49:41 AMAug 9
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On 09/08/2022 08:35, hermeneutika wrote:
>
>
>
> ok
>
> many thanks to everyone for your thoughts. For the record i am hosting my own websites on my own webserver, a raspberry pi. So all i have to pay for is the domain name, and five volts for the rpi! I have no problems installing Wordpress on my webserver. Again this does not cost me anything.
> The main criticism that got to me was "do not reinvent the wheel".

I don't think Mark intended it as a criticism, just friendly advice.

Obviously now you've explained further regarding your webserver then we
understand better your desire to understand php and mysql more . That
said you've come a long way already if you've set up your own server.



So yes i could do a wordpress install. or just use notepad. But the
basic shell i now have disciplines me. I have the entire Bible on the
website.And can add commentaries to each individual verse. fyi there are
31103 verses in the AV translation. 25 verses a day is just under 4
years! I might call it the working mans commentary, as i have no Bible
College training, tho i do have a BSc Hon(Third) from the Open University.

I wish you every success with it.



Kendall K. Down

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Aug 9, 2022, 2:29:42 PMAug 9
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On 09/08/2022 08:35, hermeneutika wrote:

> many thanks to everyone for your thoughts. For the record i am hosting my own websites on my own webserver, a raspberry pi. So all i have to pay for is the domain name, and five volts for the rpi! I have no problems installing Wordpress on my webserver. Again this does not cost me anything.

The only problem with hosting your own website is - so far as I
understand things - that only person can access it at a time. (Can
someone who knows more confirm or deny that, please?) Major suppliers
have multiple servers and access points and so can cope with multiple
visitors. However there is no doubt that your solution is the cheapest
way to go.

> The main criticism that got to me was "do not reinvent the wheel". So yes i could do a wordpress install. or just use notepad.

I think I am correct in stating that the Raspeberry Pi has limited
memory, so you do not want the extravagant HTML that most commercial
products create (and I am guessing that Wordpress will be no exception).
HTML is extremely simple to learn, CSS is less simple but you can get by
without it.

> But the basic shell i now have disciplines me. I have the entire Bible on the website.And can add commentaries to each individual verse. fyi there are 31103 verses in the AV translation. 25 verses a day is just under 4 years!

I suggest that you will not want to comment on each and every verse.
Things might get a trifle repetitious dealing with the lists of names at
the start of Chronicles, for example.

> I might call it the working mans commentary, as i have no Bible College training, tho i do have a BSc Hon(Third) from the Open University. I take the prophet Amos as my role model?

If you want your output to be taken at all seriously, you will need to
polish up your spelling. There are two glaring mistakes in the above
sentence.

Stuart

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Aug 9, 2022, 3:29:42 PMAug 9
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In article <tcu8tk$1f6vo$1...@dont-email.me>,
Kendall K. Down <kendal...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> I think I am correct in stating that the Raspeberry Pi has limited
> memory, so you do not want the extravagant HTML that most commercial
> products create (and I am guessing that Wordpress will be no exception).
> HTML is extremely simple to learn, CSS is less simple but you can get by
> without it.

My Pi4 has 4G of memory and ones with 8G are available. It also has a 120G
SSD and runs at 2.1 G

Stuart

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Aug 9, 2022, 3:29:43 PMAug 9
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In article <tcu8tk$1f6vo$1...@dont-email.me>,
Kendall K. Down <kendal...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> If you want your output to be taken at all seriously, you will need to
> polish up your spelling. There are two glaring mistakes in the above
> sentence.

I can recommend an excellent proof-reader, who also happens to be a
Christian.

http://www.archivepub.co.uk/index.html

Mark Goodge

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Aug 9, 2022, 4:39:40 PMAug 9
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On Tue, 9 Aug 2022 19:26:59 +0100, "Kendall K. Down"
<kendal...@googlemail.com> wrote:

>On 09/08/2022 08:35, hermeneutika wrote:
>
>> many thanks to everyone for your thoughts. For the record i am hosting my
>> own websites on my own webserver, a raspberry pi. So all i have to pay for
>> is the domain name, and five volts for the rpi! I have no problems installing
>> Wordpress on my webserver. Again this does not cost me anything.
>
>The only problem with hosting your own website is - so far as I
>understand things - that only person can access it at a time. (Can
>someone who knows more confirm or deny that, please?) Major suppliers
>have multiple servers and access points and so can cope with multiple
>visitors. However there is no doubt that your solution is the cheapest
>way to go.

A self-hosted web site is accessible to multiple users in exactly the same
as a remotely hosted one. But the two limiting factors will be the outbound
bandwidth and the power of the server, both if which are likely to be
severely tested by a Raspberry Pi on a home connection, at least if it gets
any significant readership.

>> The main criticism that got to me was "do not reinvent the wheel".
>> So yes i could do a wordpress install. or just use notepad.
>
>I think I am correct in stating that the Raspeberry Pi has limited
>memory, so you do not want the extravagant HTML that most commercial
>products create (and I am guessing that Wordpress will be no exception).
>HTML is extremely simple to learn, CSS is less simple but you can get by
>without it.

Bloated HTML isn't a problem for the server, it's a problem for the client.
To the server, it's all just text. But Wordpress does require a database,
and that can be a significant drain on resources.

You can only get by without CSS if you're happy for your website to be just
plain black and white. Or, if you're happy for your website to not be
compliant with current standards.

Mark


Kendall K. Down

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Aug 9, 2022, 11:09:43 PMAug 9
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On 09/08/2022 20:21, Stuart wrote:

> My Pi4 has 4G of memory and ones with 8G are available. It also has a 120G
> SSD and runs at 2.1 G

Unless Hermeneutika's Pi is devoted to nothing else but his commentary
and its associated software, 4Gb may be too small for everything to be
stored at once. The other things you mention will make a difference.

However even if there is sufficient memory to *store* inefficient HTML,
it also takes longer for the user to download and for the web-browser to
process.

For example: here is a simple table as I would write it.

<table>
<tr>
<td>text
<td>text
</table>

Here is the same table as produced by some programs I have seen:

<table>
<tr>
<td>text
<td>text
</table>

Repeat that sort of foolishness on every line of a long page and you end
up with kilobytes of wasted space.

Kendall K. Down

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Aug 9, 2022, 11:09:43 PMAug 9
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On 09/08/2022 21:30, Mark Goodge wrote:

> A self-hosted web site is accessible to multiple users in exactly the same
> as a remotely hosted one. But the two limiting factors will be the outbound
> bandwidth and the power of the server, both if which are likely to be
> severely tested by a Raspberry Pi on a home connection, at least if it gets
> any significant readership.

Thanks.

> You can only get by without CSS if you're happy for your website to be just
> plain black and white.

I'm afraid that is nonsense. Websites were colourful and interesting
long before CSS was invented. I know - I've written them.

> Or, if you're happy for your website to not be
> compliant with current standards.

That, of course, is true - and CSS does offer many advantages which
should not be sneezed at.

Mark Goodge

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Aug 10, 2022, 12:59:43 PMAug 10
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On Wed, 10 Aug 2022 04:06:12 +0100, "Kendall K. Down"
<kendal...@googlemail.com> wrote:

>On 09/08/2022 21:30, Mark Goodge wrote:
>
>> A self-hosted web site is accessible to multiple users in exactly the same
>> as a remotely hosted one. But the two limiting factors will be the outbound
>> bandwidth and the power of the server, both if which are likely to be
>> severely tested by a Raspberry Pi on a home connection, at least if it gets
>> any significant readership.
>
>Thanks.
>
>> You can only get by without CSS if you're happy for your website to be just
>> plain black and white.
>
>I'm afraid that is nonsense. Websites were colourful and interesting
>long before CSS was invented. I know - I've written them.

Yes, I know. But standards have moved on since then. If you're happy for
your HTML to be obsolete, then yes, go on being obsolete if it suits you.

Mark


Mark Goodge

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Aug 10, 2022, 1:19:42 PMAug 10
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On Wed, 10 Aug 2022 04:01:07 +0100, "Kendall K. Down"
<kendal...@googlemail.com> wrote:

>On 09/08/2022 20:21, Stuart wrote:
>
>> My Pi4 has 4G of memory and ones with 8G are available. It also has a 120G
>> SSD and runs at 2.1 G
>
>Unless Hermeneutika's Pi is devoted to nothing else but his commentary
>and its associated software, 4Gb may be too small for everything to be
>stored at once. The other things you mention will make a difference.

The entire Bible will fit in under 4Mb. You could store a hundred copies of
the Bible in 4Gb and still have plenty of space to spare.

But, in any case, it's the storage, not the memory, which is the main
consideration here. Unless he puts it all onto one, incredibly long page,
the memory will never need to hold more than one page's worth at a time.

>However even if there is sufficient memory to *store* inefficient HTML,
>it also takes longer for the user to download and for the web-browser to
>process.

That may have been a factor back in the days of dial-up. But even the
slowest broadband will download the entire Bible in a matter of seconds.
And, of course, he isn't going to expect anyone to download the entire Bible
in one go. One chapter of Biblical text plus associated commentary will
download in far less than a second. And, while whitespace does add to the
download time (albeit at nanosecond level), it has no effect at all on the
browser.

Mark


Kendall K. Down

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Aug 10, 2022, 3:39:43 PMAug 10
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On 10/08/2022 18:18, Mark Goodge wrote:

> The entire Bible will fit in under 4Mb. You could store a hundred copies of
> the Bible in 4Gb and still have plenty of space to spare.

KJV in UTF-8 ascii: 4202 kb
NIV ditto : 3917 kb

However that is in one continuous file. Broken up into either books or
chapters would result in a larger space requirement.

> But, in any case, it's the storage, not the memory, which is the main
> consideration here. Unless he puts it all onto one, incredibly long page,
> the memory will never need to hold more than one page's worth at a time.

Well, we don't know what his plans are. Talk of SQL and databases may
indicate large files and random access.

> That may have been a factor back in the days of dial-up. But even the
> slowest broadband will download the entire Bible in a matter of seconds.
> And, of course, he isn't going to expect anyone to download the entire Bible
> in one go. One chapter of Biblical text plus associated commentary will
> download in far less than a second. And, while whitespace does add to the
> download time (albeit at nanosecond level), it has no effect at all on the
> browser.

I don't believe that it has *no* effect on the browser, though I agree
that the difference will be very small - with a fast computer. I don't
know whether he intends to include pictures or diagrams in his commentary?

Kendall K. Down

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Aug 10, 2022, 3:39:44 PMAug 10
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On 10/08/2022 17:51, Mark Goodge wrote:

>> I'm afraid that is nonsense. Websites were colourful and interesting
>> long before CSS was invented. I know - I've written them.

> Yes, I know. But standards have moved on since then. If you're happy for
> your HTML to be obsolete, then yes, go on being obsolete if it suits you.

It doesn't suit me - which is why I've learned enough CSS to get by. It
may, however, suit hermeneutika. In any case, better to stress the
advantages of CSS[1] rather than make false statements about plain HTML.

God bless,
Kendall K. Down

Note 1: The advantages of CSS include:

It is easy to change the colour scheme and layout of all your pages just
by making a few alterations to the single CSS file.

You can position things on the page with pixel precision, if you need to.

You can create "styles" that are accessed with a single word. Thus you
could create a style "piccaption" that was 2pt smaller, bold, centred,
blue and italic which you could access by <p piccaption> so you don't
have the specify the small, bold, centred, etc every time you want a
picture caption.


Kendall K. Down

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Aug 10, 2022, 3:49:43 PMAug 10
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On 09/08/2022 08:35, hermeneutika wrote:

> many thanks to everyone for your thoughts.

Incidentally, I did a sort of archaeological commentary which you may
find interesting or even useful.
http://www.diggings.co.uk/pages/rese/books/comment.htm

Stuart

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Aug 10, 2022, 5:19:42 PMAug 10
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In article <td11r6$1tsdi$1...@dont-email.me>,
Kendall K. Down <kendal...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On 09/08/2022 08:35, hermeneutika wrote:

> > many thanks to everyone for your thoughts.

> Incidentally, I did a sort of archaeological commentary which you may
> find interesting or even useful.
> http://www.diggings.co.uk/pages/rese/books/comment.htm

Added to my hotlist for future reading.

Kendall K. Down

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Aug 11, 2022, 12:09:43 AMAug 11
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On 10/08/2022 22:13, Stuart wrote:

> Added to my hotlist for future reading.

Something we all have, I suspect.

hermeneutika

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Aug 12, 2022, 10:39:42 AMAug 12
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Again many thanks for all the feedback and input. I have a 64gig sdcard, which is more than enough, even with massive databases on the site! Of course if i started getting thousands of hits, then i would need a more powerful machine. My site is very rough and ready and could not be called "professional" by any stretch of the imagination. It is my way of making serious notes on the Bible. I continue to learn html,css,php,mysqli etc. Also i continue to learn the ?Word of God. Win/win

Kendall K. Down

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Aug 12, 2022, 3:39:42 PMAug 12
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On 12/08/2022 15:39, hermeneutika wrote:

> Again many thanks for all the feedback and input. I have a 64gig sdcard, which is more than enough, even with massive databases on the site! Of course if i started getting thousands of hits, then i would need a more powerful machine. My site is very rough and ready and could not be called "professional" by any stretch of the imagination. It is my way of making serious notes on the Bible. I continue to learn html,css,php,mysqli etc. Also i continue to learn the ?Word of God. Win/win

Yes, whatever the public opinion of your efforts, you will learn an
awful lot about the Bible and you will keep your grey cells active, both
of which are highly desirable.
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