Prop Size
skyd...@orange.net
would have? Cheers for any help rob
Tony Brooks
<skyd...@orange.net> wrote in message
news:1162232348.5...@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Hi, Would anyone know what size prop a beta 43 on a 57 ft narrow boat
> would have? Cheers for any help rob
>
Many people will hazard a guess, some better informed than others, but we
need much more data like the gearbox reduction ratio, the waterline length
and the boat's displacement (weight).
My advice is to contact Crowthers of Manchester and ask them for a
recommendation for canal use.
Please be aware that many canal boats with over powerful engines (like
yours) are deliberately underpropped to allow higher revs so the alternator
puts out a decent charge at canal speed.
It also helps if you put your question in context. - why you ask.
--
Tony Brooks
www.TB-Training.co.uk
Trevor George
> Would anyone know what size prop a beta 43 on a 57 ft narrow boat ?
If it's any help there are a number of "Propellor Size Calculators on 'google'
http://tinyurl.com/y2lmmc
one of which is http://www.castlemarine.co.uk/pitch.htm
--
Cheers ..... Trevor George, Bristol, UK.
Narrowboat 'Willow' - http://www.OnMyBoat.co.uk
Home - http://www.PoolesWharf.com
skyd...@orange.net
Tony Brooks wrote:
>
> Many people will hazard a guess, some better informed than others, but we
> need much more data like the gearbox reduction ratio, the waterline length
> and the boat's displacement (weight).
>
> My advice is to contact Crowthers of Manchester and ask them for a
> recommendation for canal use.
>
> Please be aware that many canal boats with over powerful engines (like
> yours) are deliberately underpropped to allow higher revs so the alternator
> puts out a decent charge at canal speed.
>
> It also helps if you put your question in context. - why you ask.
>
>
> --
> Tony Brooks
> www.TB-Training.co.uk
MY dad clobbered it to death on a rock...
He is hoping to have a new one in his hand so he can lift out replace
it and go back in again
It has the 43 with the generator on it. The builder said it had to be
the bigger engine because of this??
Rob
Neil Arlidge
That is correct. The 43 / BV1903 is smallest engine that Beta do with the
3.5 kva Travelpower 230 v AC generator.
I would not say at a Beta 43 is over powerful for a 57ft narrowboat, not if
you want to do any rivers / tidal stuff.
Earnest (58ft 6ins, 2ft 2" draught) has a Beta BV1903 (43) and Crowthers
reommended an 18 x 13 prop, but that was taking into account Earnest's
"slipper" stern.
Earnest is very slightly overproped for canals, but is fine for rivers /
tidal stuff with the power available all the way up to the rev limit (around
2750 rpm, hull speed in open water is achieved around 2500rpm)
As built Earnest had a 17 x 12 prop, this was useless, it would not pull up
coming into a lock and under power would rev up to 3200 rpm with nothing
happening above 2500 rpm.
--
Neil Arlidge - NB Earnest
Follow the travelled TNC at : http://www.tuesdaynightclub.co.uk
Visit this site and help save our waterways from the DEFRA cuts
http://www.savethewaterways.org.uk/
skyd...@orange.net
Neil Arlidge wrote:
>
> That is correct. The 43 / BV1903 is smallest engine that Beta do with the
> 3.5 kva Travelpower 230 v AC generator.
>
> I would not say at a Beta 43 is over powerful for a 57ft narrowboat, not if
> you want to do any rivers / tidal stuff.
>
> Earnest (58ft 6ins, 2ft 2" draught) has a Beta BV1903 (43) and Crowthers
> reommended an 18 x 13 prop, but that was taking into account Earnest's
> "slipper" stern.
> Earnest is very slightly overproped for canals, but is fine for rivers /
> tidal stuff with the power available all the way up to the rev limit (around
> 2750 rpm, hull speed in open water is achieved around 2500rpm)
> As built Earnest had a 17 x 12 prop, this was useless, it would not pull up
> coming into a lock and under power would rev up to 3200 rpm with nothing
> happening above 2500 rpm.
>
> --
> Neil Arlidge - NB Earnest
Just Phoned the builder and he said it should be a 18 x 13 but noone
stocks an 18 x 13 only a 18 x 14 0r 18 x 12. Does anyone have a number
for crothers. Rob
Chris B
<skyd...@orange.net> wrote in message
news:1162298045.5...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Crowther Marine
Eden Works,
Belgrave Mill No 1
Honeywell Lane
Oldham OL8 2JP
Telephone: 0161 652 4234
Fax: 0161 627 4265
Email: crowthe...@tiscali.co.uk
Chris B
Paul Scott
<skyd...@orange.net> wrote in message
news:1162298045.5...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I'm sure I saw an 18 x 13 in Midland Chandlers at Preston Brook earlier this
year, my boat has an 18 x 10, its a 62ft, Shire 2000, and was just right for
the speeds achievable on the Southern Oxford, but is definitely underpropped
for rivers and bigger canals, so will probably change for next year now I've
moved to Calcutt.
Paul
Will Chapman
> Earnest (58ft 6ins, 2ft 2" draught) has a Beta BV1903 (43) and Crowthers
> reommended an 18 x 13 prop, but that was taking into account Earnest's
> "slipper" stern.
>
coming out of a
lock. Had the shaft replaces and the prop bent roughly back in shape but
I think
it needs more precise attention than heating up and wacking with a
hammer with
one eye closed.
Is it necessary to visit Crowthers with the boat to get their
recommendations or do they
base them on measurement and known hull shape (i.e Colecraft)? What
sort of money are
we talking about for such an assessment and, maybe, a new prop?
Cheers..
Will Chapman
nb Quidditch - still slightly bent.
--
Will Chapman
Save Our Waterways
www.SaveOurWaterways.org.uk
Neil Arlidge
> Neil Arlidge wrote:
>> Earnest (58ft 6ins, 2ft 2" draught) has a Beta BV1903 (43) and
>> Crowthers reommended an 18 x 13 prop, but that was taking into
>> account Earnest's "slipper" stern.
>>
> Quidditch's prop was bent (and the shaft) when we hit something hard
> coming out of a
> lock.
Well, a true TNC member!
> Had the shaft replaces and the prop bent roughly back in shape
> but I think
> it needs more precise attention than heating up and wacking with a
> hammer with
> one eye closed.
>
> Is it necessary to visit Crowthers with the boat to get their
> recommendations or do they
> base them on measurement and known hull shape (i.e Colecraft)? What
> sort of money are
> we talking about for such an assessment and, maybe, a new prop?
Take your prop to Crowthers and it will come back like new and the right
size!
If they decree a new prop, they give you scrap brass value for yours (which
is normally more than you would expect.)
>
> Cheers..
>
> Will Chapman
> nb Quidditch - still slightly bent.
--
Neil Arlidge - NB Earnest - on its original prop (well the right size one
that was put on afer 6 months) , shaft AND stuffing!
Julian
news:pIGdnUSsftcBFtrY...@pipex.net...
>
> Is it necessary to visit Crowthers with the boat to get their
> recommendations or do they
> base them on measurement and known hull shape (i.e Colecraft)? What sort
> of money are
> we talking about for such an assessment and, maybe, a new prop?
>
They will send you a form to fill in to give them the measurements to get
you the correct size prop.
As for the shaft I replaced mine on Idleness, all that is needed is the
diameter and the length.
As for cost, well the prop I got for Parglena, a 23x16, was £550 plus vat
It could have gone up by now due to the cost of materials.
J
Julian Tether
<dutto...@onetel.no.spam.com> writes
>Was that a standard blade (sounds a lot if it was) or an extra blade
>area job?
Should have been a 28x16 but it wouldn't fit under the counter so it
went on the blade width instead. So yes it was a big blade area one. As
was the one for Idleness
--
Julian Tether
Barge Parglena
e-mail: jul...@parglena.co.uk
Julian
news:5ugfk2hf0n704g03l...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 21:40:44 +0000, Julian Tether
> <Jul...@parglena.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In message <s97fk29ad911bpq74...@4ax.com>, Tim Leech
>><dutto...@onetel.no.spam.com> writes
>>>Was that a standard blade (sounds a lot if it was) or an extra blade
>>>area job?
>>Should have been a 28x16 but it wouldn't fit under the counter so it
>>went on the blade width instead. So yes it was a big blade area one. As
>>was the one for Idleness
>
> He seems to charge based on the size it *should* be <G>
>
because in theory you have the same blade area so the same amount of metal?
J
Neil Arlidge
This would follow with my conversations with Crowthers about trade in prices
for scrap props.
Will Chapman
On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 18:17:02 -0000, "Julian" <jul...@negearth.co.uk> wrote:As for cost, well the prop I got for Parglena, a 23x16, was £550 plus vat It could have gone up by now due to the cost of materials.
Frighten? Nah, just pass the toilet paper....Careful, you'll frighten him <BG>
Cost me about £600 to debend the prop and fit a new shaft
and gland. Fortunately it was covered by insurance.
Uncle Marvo
Will Chapman
> Will, you're posting HTML again ...
>
Will Chapman
> Will, you're posting HTML again ...
>
>
>
Neil Arlidge
> Uncle Marvo wrote:
>> Will, you're posting HTML again ...
>>
>>
>>
> THink I found the setting....is this OK?
Yes, the HTML attachment has gone.
Uncle Marvo
0Mednf9xS7s...@giganews.com, I, Marvo, say :
> Will Chapman wrote:
>> Uncle Marvo wrote:
>>> Will, you're posting HTML again ...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> THink I found the setting....is this OK?
>
> Yes, the HTML attachment has gone.
Yes, It's sharp and to the point.
Dave Larrington
Uncle Marvo <pau...@deletethisbitfortescue.org.uk> scribed:
/And/ it affirms the victory of life over death too.
Captain: Move 'propellor'
Captain: For great justice.
--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
If you are choking on an ice cube, simply pour a jug of boiling
water down your throat and presto! The blockage is almost
instantly removed.
Uncle Marvo
4qufelF...@individual.net, I, Marvo, say :
> In news:4qucqnF...@individual.net,
> Uncle Marvo <pau...@deletethisbitfortescue.org.uk> scribed:
>> In reply to Neil Arlidge (ne...@tuesdaynightclub.co.uk) who wrote this
>> in 0Mednf9xS7s...@giganews.com, I, Marvo, say :
>>
>>> Will Chapman wrote:
>>>> Uncle Marvo wrote:
>>>>> Will, you're posting HTML again ...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> THink I found the setting....is this OK?
>>>
>>> Yes, the HTML attachment has gone.
>>
>> Yes, It's sharp and to the point.
>
> /And/ it affirms the victory of life over death too.
>
> Captain: Move 'propellor'
> Captain: For great justice.
You're not just /from/ near Barking, are you?
Bob Fleming
<skyd...@orange.net> wrote in message
> Hi, Would anyone know what size prop a beta 43 on a 57 ft narrow boat
> would have? Cheers for any help rob
>
I have a 50ft Colecraft with Beta BV1505, PRM150 (3:1) gearbox and 19"x14"
propeller.
Seems to run OK to me, smooth and quiet, but nothing really to objectively
compare against.
--
Bob Fleming
nb Tugby
http://www.auluk.freeserve.co.uk/boats/tugby.htm
Tony Brooks
"Neil Arlidge" <ne...@tuesdaynightclub.co.uk> wrote in message
news:e82dnYkE3av...@giganews.com...
I want to put that in context, having given the question more thought.
Waterways World once publishes an piece that stated that a 60 odd foot
narrowboat only required about 3 or 4 h.p. for canal speeds. We need to
remember that. This shows that even 15hp is "oversize", but goodness knows
what it would stop like!
As Neil says you need extra power when on rivers and such like, but if you
go too far and prop correctly you are likely (not will) to be running the
engine at less than optimum speed for alternator charging when on canals.
Real trad engines had a very narrow rev range - often less than 1000 rpm, so
one can gear up the alternator with no fear of it overspeeding at maximum
revs, so the problem is solved that way. Modern engine with a rev band of
perhaps 3000 of 4000 rpm can not do that because if they geared for optimum
alternator output at canal speed the alternator may fly apart at maximum
speed. This problem is made worse when you fit something like the
Travelpower that will need a minimum speed to reach its maximum output.
Travelpower, the engine mariniser and boat builder can not be sure how their
equipment will be used and if someone tried to draw maximum power off it at
canal speed I suspect they would only have a reduced power available, so an
undersized prop would ensure the engine produced sufficient revs at canal
speed.
Using 750 watts per hp the Travelpower will produce roughly 4.6 hp at 100%
efficient. It is stated that a 12/24 volt alternator is likely to be only
about 30% efficient and the Travelpower has extra control circuits so they
must use something. Lets say its 25% efficient. This means the engine has to
supply the Travelpower with about 18 hp at full load so the engine must be
specified to produce this, at the correct revs, when travelling (I have no
reliable data for the above). However when the Travelpower is only under
"battery charger" or no load that 18hp is available to propel the boat - I
think that's more than a Lister twin produces.
The whole thing is more complicated than a straight forward prop to hull
calculation implies and much depends upon the owners methods of operation.
--
Tony Brooks
www.TB-Training.co.uk
Neil Arlidge
All I know is my set up re engine size / prop size / Travelpower / hull
design / size of alternator pulleys etc works!
I can pull around 2 Kw from the Travelpower at tickover, assuming the other
alternators are not working (ie batterys charged), without it tripping out.
This is enough to power the Miele washer dryer at tick over, unless the heat
element is on is on. The other thing about the Travel power / Miele (very
electronic) combination is that is the load it too great and the Travelpower
trips out, as soon as the revs are increased it trips back in and the Miele
carrys on where it left off!
In reality I always aim to do the washing underway and in a lock free
strech.
Neil Arlidge - NB Earnest
Martin Phillips
<to...@tb-training.co.uk> writes
>Using 750 watts per hp the Travelpower will produce roughly 4.6 hp at 100%
>efficient. It is stated that a 12/24 volt alternator is likely to be only
>about 30% efficient and the Travelpower has extra control circuits so they
>must use something. Lets say its 25% efficient.
If it's only 25% efficient then at full output it must be dissipating
around 10 kW. I think it might melt down before long!
Wassail!
--
Martin E Phillips nb Boden, Splatt Bridge
http://www.g4cio.demon.co.uk martin/at/g4cio/dot/demon/dot/co/dot/uk
Homebrewing, black pudding, boats, morris dancing, ham radio and more!
The Gloucester-Sharpness canal page http://www.glos-sharpness.org.uk
Brian Dominic
<to...@tb-training.co.uk> finished tucking into their plate of fish,
chips and mushy peas. Wiping their mouths, they swiggged the last of
their cup of tea, paid the bill and wrote::
>I want to put that in context, having given the question more thought.
>
>Waterways World once publishes an piece that stated that a 60 odd foot
>narrowboat only required about 3 or 4 h.p. for canal speeds. We need to
>remember that. This shows that even 15hp is "oversize", but goodness knows
>what it would stop like!
>
Not so long ago, most hire boats had a Lister SR2 which is only about
13 hp, and they went all right.............. Rumpus only had 5hp!
Brian L Dominic
Web Sites:
Canals: http://www.brianscanalpages.co.uk
Friends of the Cromford Canal: http://www.cromfordcanal.org.uk
(Waterways World Site of the Month, November 2005)
Newsgroup readers should note that the reply-to address is NOT read:
To email me, please send to brian(dot)dominic(at)tiscali(dot)co(dot)uk
furnessvale
Brian Dominic wrote:
> Not so long ago, most hire boats had a Lister SR2 which is only about
> 13 hp, and they went all right.............. Rumpus only had 5hp!
Grand Union working pairs had 18hp Nationals and carried 62 tons on the
pair (plus the weight of the boats). A single FMC motor had to survive
with a 9hp Bolinder. Mind you there are horses and horses:-)
George
Phil R
"furnessvale" <furne...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1162596038....@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Exactly, and there are BIG PROPS and small props :-)
Phil
MikeA
> The horses are essentially the same.
>
> Tim
>
> Dutton Dry-Dock
> Traditional & Modern canal craft repairs
> Vintage diesel engine service
Actually the rating for modern engines is usually Break Horse Power (BHP),
older engines are rated by a calculation which includes the size of the
cyclinder (HP). My Lister SR3 is rated at 19.5 HP, but I suspect it produces
near 30 BHP.
You also have to remember that it takes far less than 0.5 HP to move a boat
at 2 mph - I know I pulled it myself! Though it is recon'd that 1 horse on
land is worth 10 in the water.
Horses swim dont they? :-)
Mike
Paul Scott
"MikeA" <no-...@here.INVALID> wrote in message
news:eipvts$rg4$1...@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk...
>
> Actually the rating for modern engines is usually Break Horse Power (BHP),
> Mike
Is that the amount of power that causes engine damage then?
Paul
David Mack
Tim Leech wrote:
> >Actually the rating for modern engines is usually Break Horse Power (BHP),
> >older engines are rated by a calculation which includes the size of the
> >cyclinder (HP). My Lister SR3 is rated at 19.5 HP, but I suspect it produces
> >near 30 BHP.
> >
>
> Brake Horsepower (sp) has been used for a very long time, including
> the Lister SR.
> Your SR3 will only produce the rated 19.5 bhp, or thereabouts, but it
> should be able to do it all day, day after day if needed.
> You may be thinking of the old RAC horsepower rating for cars, on
> which taxation was based at one time, one reason why the preference
> used to be for long-stroke engines. That has nothing to do with
> marine diesel engines. Steam engines used to be described by another
> rating, Indicated Horsepower, which would be a much smaller number
> than the bhp of which they were capable.
As an aside you can check the rated horsepower of your engine at
<http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/mcga-seafarer_information/mcga-dops_fishing_engine.htm>.
I think the figures given are in KW, although they have reformatted
the page since I first found it, and this is no longer stated.
David Mack
Robin Nicholson
<ne...@tuesdaynightclub.co.uk> wrote:
>> Quidditch's prop was bent (and the shaft) when we hit something hard
>> coming out of a
>> lock.
>
>Well, a true TNC member!
Does - clunk - whirr and 'Oh the prop has fallen off' count me in as
well?
R
Neil Arlidge
Shirley you are aware you are a full TNC Member?...have you forgotten the
River Derwent, River Swale and the River Thames???
--
Neil Arlidge - NB Earnest
Follow the travelled TNC at : http://www.tuesdaynightclub.co.uk
Visit this site and help save our waterways from the DEFRA cuts
http://www.saveourwaterways.org.uk/