Molly's Holi's - Trip Report - Part Two
molly_m...@my-dejanews.com
Woke about 7:30 - again, the night was rather disturbed by passing boats, and
also the wind had got up by bedtime and was rocking the boat. We left
everything open - doors, windows - for the sake of the breeze.
Breakfasted, then (around 9:20) cast off the complicated knots which the
harbourmaster had tied for us and headed back to the crosswaters, turning
right. Had the canal almost to ourselves for a while and saw masses of
wildlife - a rabbit, lots of white Little Egrets, a pair of grebes, Paul saw
a coypu and a kingfisher although I didn't. White Camargue horses. Realised
that the bird Paul saw a couple of days ago was an avocet. Swifts, swallows
and sandmartins. Sandpipers. Passed (overtook) a large barge, and later on
passed (other direction) a huge Dutch one.
Arrived at Aigues-Mortes about noon. Fortunately another hire craft was just
leaving, so we took its moorings. Efficiently done. Walked back along the
canal, with the mediaeval city wall to our right, the other side of a road we
weren't allowed to cross. Through a gateway we caught a glimpse of the
colourful city within. Round the corner to the main gate and started to
explore Aigues-Mortes. Slightly less touristy, more real, than Carcassonne,
but of course not so impressive. Ancient church (restored) had modern,
non-representational stained glass.
(Exploration of Aigues-Mortes snipped. Lunch was oysters and moules
marinieres. Temperatures in the mid-30's, relieved slightly by the wind)
Back at the mooring, we found that we and everyone else had been turned
stern-on by the harbourmaster. Made much more room. The Capitaine came
around shortly after we got back and charged us FF64 for the night. No
showers or security, but our own watering point. (Mind you, we have had no
problems watering anywhere - I just wish that we could use these electricity
points, since the electric fridge takes up so much juice.) Flotilla of ducks
in the moorings, plus one sad, waterlogged juvenile blackback gull. Very odd
- last night there was only one duck around.
But so many dead fish, both at Palavas and in the canal on the way here!
Also a collection of dead crabs. Presumably this is down to the fishermen
who net the rivers/canals and then just chuck back what they don't want.
Fed our stale bread to the ducks. The gull just bobbed unhappily and didn't
want any. First time I've seen a gull - especially a juvenile - that wasn't
hungry. I don't hold out much hope for it; it's very low in the water.
Now sitting with a jug of Pimms and a packet of crisps. And in comes a
hire-boat in all sorts of trouble. Man and woman, both in cabin, attempting
to moor bow-first. I offer to catch bow rope. Woman accepts gratefully,
throws me the only free six feet of a huge sodden tangle. Of course it
doesn't reach me. I mime coiling. Eventually I am thrown a triple loop of
rope, which I manage to get once around the bollard cleat before they drift
back out. The man decided they didn't need help from (a) a woman and (b) a
British one. Back to the Pimms. He had great fun trying to turn the boat
side-on by pulling at the bow rope through the wheelhouse window. Some of
these boats have only two ropes, one bow and one stern; we must be lucky to
have three, but oh, how I do long for two bow ropes, especially in locks!
The other boat eventually accepted assistance from someone else (male,
French) and got moored.
Some of this does make us feel a bit superior - much as we have to learn,
what we do know we were well taught. But I don't think I mentioned how, on
our arrival at Palavas, we mistakenly attempted to moor at a private mooring,
jetty to stern and pole in the water to bow. (They have a brilliant way of
mooring to these, along a double pulley-type line so that when they got off
the boat it can be hauled away from the jetty and any potential trespassers.)
It was very tricky to get out again when we realised our mistake, but
eventually we did it by holding a single stern-rope and fore-and-afting
gently until we swung the bows round clear of the pole. When we saw these
moorings in use, we realised we had been nearly two metres nearer the bank
than they ever go, so they have no trouble getting out.
Second jug of Pimms, and here we are moored outside the ramparts of a
12th-century city listening to a tape of Languedoc troubadour songs, drinking
the most English of drinks! Flamingo-coloured sunset (pink and dark grey).
A large shoal of grey mullet, having kicked up some green scum, and now going
around with their mouths wide open hoovering it all up.
(Rest of day snipped. Supper was bread, butter, cheese, pate, fruit.
Discovered that the Eurocheques had been left behind in the car.)
Wednesday 19th August
Left around 9:30, heading for Grau du Roi. Only half-an-hour's run, so we
will have to run the engine quite a lot once moored to bring the battery up
to scratch. A strong wind, plus current from a river on our right, meant
that we had to pass our intended mooring, turn, and come back to it, but then
did OK. Scorching hot day; went to the beach. The water was warm, with
good waves because of the stiff breeze, but so shallow! After walking out
about a quarter of a mile to waist depth, I found I was going up a sandbank
back to knee depth. Swim the Hellespont? I could have walked to Morocco.
Too shallow to swim, but sported in the waves.
The strange thing is the total absence of shore life. All those things which
live between the high and low water lines, from sand-flies and worms to
oyster-catchers. This is maybe why the crabs live in the rivers - there is
detritus to eat. All there is on a Mediterranean beach is human debris (not
much) and shells washed up, usually broken. Seaweed floats in the water but
is not deposited on the beach. (Maybe in winter storms, but not in August.)
Lunch was one of the huge shellfish assortments they all offer around here.
12 oysters, 12 raw mussels, 6 clams, 6 raw sea snails, 4 king prawns and a
little bowl of tellines, tiny oval shellfish in a garlicky sauce. I enjoyed
the oysters, clams, prawns and tellines. Prefer my mussels cooked - these
were too slippery and impossible to control. The sea snails (I was very
brave here) actually tasted quite good, but looked so revolting that I gave
up during my second one. Best brown bread I have ever had in France.
Back to the boat, and found we had to pay to moor even though not
overnighting (very unusual, but then Grau du Roi is a beach resort) and set
off for St Gilles, which should provide sufficient engine-hours to charge the
batteries.
Very pleasant run, although it must have been 35 degrees. Oodles of wildlife
- flocks of terns, flamingos, a herd of white horses (mostly stallions, maybe
all), a herd of black bulls, a MARSH HARRIER!!! with a rat in its beak. (I
always thought that birds of prey carried their kills in their feet, but this
was definitely in its beak.) As we got nearer to St Gilles we saw rice
fields to starboard. (Apparently this is a Bad Thing because it means
flooding with fresh, rather than brackish, water.) And three coots. Also a
number of fish leaping, and one huge dead one the size of a salmon.
At St Gilles we found a mooring, found and better one and moved to it, found
the Capitaine and found that Crown Blue Line boats are exempt from payment
because they have a base here.
Found more ducks than we have ever before seen assembled. Ditto mosquitoes.
Opposite us, on the other side of the canal from the town, is the industrial
estate. Pretty ugly, but redeemed by the fact that the industry is wine.
(After this it gets a bit silly and you can skip it if you want. A certain
amount of alcohol has been consumed.)
10p.m., and the huge duck convention is getting pretty threatening.
Hitchcockian. Daphne du Maurien.
"The ducks are gonna have their day - tonight!
"The ducks are gonna have their way - tonight!
"You think that we just sit here - quack, quack -
"But wait until we hit yer, right in the back
"Tonight!"
The thing about these ducks is:-
They are all DUCKS.
No drakes.
They are NOT HAPPY. Not sapphic ducks.
They are ducks who like ...
(We have finally arrived at the point of self-censorship! Sorry, folks.)
--
Molly
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
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Richard Lucas
from molly_m...@my-dejanews.com contains these words:
> The thing about these ducks is:-
> They are all DUCKS.
> No drakes.
Molly, in July and August, mallard drakes are in "eclipse" plumage,
and look very like the ducks. You can tell the males at this time by
two features;
1. They are a little darker than the females.
2, Drakes have yellow bills, ducks brown bills.
--
Richard
MartinP
Richard Lucas wrote:
> The message <6t06h2$7us$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
> from molly_m...@my-dejanews.com contains these words:
>
> > The thing about these ducks is:-
> > They are all DUCKS.
> > No drakes.
>
> Molly, in July and August, mallard drakes are in "eclipse" plumage,
> and look very like the ducks. You can tell the males at this time by
> two features;
>
> 1. They are a little darker than the females.
>
> 2, Drakes have yellow bills, ducks brown bills.
In France they are Magret de Canard, after the removal of plumeage etc.
Dr Sean Neill
> > They are all DUCKS.
> > No drakes.
>
> Molly, in July and August, mallard drakes are in "eclipse" plumage,
And not averse to 'Q-ship tactics'!
> --
> Richard
>
Sean
molly_m...@my-dejanews.com
> The message <6t06h2$7us$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
> from molly_m...@my-dejanews.com contains these words:
>
> > They are all DUCKS.
> > No drakes.
>
> two features;
>
> 1. They are a little darker than the females.
>
> 2, Drakes have yellow bills, ducks brown bills.
>
But I do remember noticing variation in the colour of bills, and of
feet. I shall know in future!
Robert Laws GSES95
> > Molly, in July and August, mallard drakes are in "eclipse" plumage,
> > and look very like the ducks. You can tell the males at this time by
> > two features;
> >
> > 1. They are a little darker than the females.
> >
> > 2, Drakes have yellow bills, ducks brown bills.
Also the drakes don't quack I believe.
Robert
Billyboy
<richar...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
> Drakes have yellow Bills, ducks brown Bills.
Bill's what? I think I should be told.
toodle pip!!
Bill
Billyboy
molly_m...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> The thing about these ducks is:-
> They are all DUCKS.
> No drakes.
> They are NOT HAPPY. Not sapphic ducks.
> They are ducks who like ...
>
> (We have finally arrived at the point of self-censorship! Sorry, folks.)
You're a bit of a tease then, Molly!
Toodle pip!!
Bill
Billyboy
me.
Many years ado, before Agde became the nudist capital of the
world ('get away from ironing - become a nudist') I spent a
very happy and alcoholic 2 or 3 months in the Agde/Sete
area. This was in my pre-canally days, but even then I was
fixated by the round lock.
I have also read a bit about the cathars and the Knights
Templar, especially in the Langudoc area.
Can we have, please, some details of the finances of the
trip - especially cost of boat hire?
Ta.
Toodle pip!!
Bill
MartinP
Billyboy wrote:
> There are several reasons why Molly's trip reports excite
> me.
>
> Many years ado, before Agde became the nudist capital of the
> world ('get away from ironing - become a nudist') I spent a
> very happy and alcoholic 2 or 3 months in the Agde/Sete
> area. This was in my pre-canally days, but even then I was
> fixated by the round lock.
>
> I have also read a bit about the cathars and the Knights
> Templar, especially in the Langudoc area.
YOU ARE NOT TO MENTION THE HOLY GRaaaaaaaarfghhjkgerrorft on this ng.
>
>
> Can we have, please, some details of the finances of the
> trip - especially cost of boat hire?
You can get that off the web Bill, they Blue Lines have a web site at
????????
Use webferret to search "Canal Du Midi".
Molly did you go there by car, if so where did you leave your car, was
it o.k./still there when you got back. (Every time we hired an Avis car
from Toulouse airport, it had
missing locks or other signs of break ins. I used to go to Toulouse
weekly at one time.)
OR did you fly to France and to where Monypellier/ Toulouse or where.
How about a hire boat GIG on the Canal du .......... next
spring/summer.?
molly_m...@my-dejanews.com
> Billyboy wrote:
> > I have also read a bit about the cathars and the Knights
> > Templar, especially in the Langudoc area.
>
Martin Paterson wrote:
> YOU ARE NOT TO MENTION THE HOLY GRaaaaaaaarfghhjkgerrorft on this ng.
Why? Is there something missing from the FAQ file on this subject? :-)
Billyboy wrote:
> > Can we have, please, some details of the finances of the
> > trip - especially cost of boat hire?
Yes, when I've checked with Paul, who is i/c finances, how much it was.
Martin Paterson wrote:
> You can get that off the web Bill, they Blue Lines have a web site at
> ????????
> Use webferret to search "Canal Du Midi".
> Molly did you go there by car, if so where did you leave your car, was
> it o.k./still there when you got back.
We drove down, taking three days down and three days back.
The full log will include details of those days, including the
dinner we ate prepared by a four-Michelin-star chef ...!
The car was left in a locked compound provided by the boatyard
and was perfectly OK.
> How about a hire boat GIG on the Canal du .......... next
> spring/summer.?
>
What a lovely thought! We wouldn't be able to make it,
unfortunately (our 1999 holiday is going to be an African safar
for our 20th wedding anniversary) but would love to muck in with
the planning!
Billyboy
(MartinP) wrote:
> YOU ARE NOT TO MENTION THE HOLY GRaaaaaaaarfghhjkgerrorft on this ng.
What are you on about? I don't understand.
Toodle pip!!
Bill
MartinP
Billyboy wrote:
The Holy Grail.
There have been a large number of books published about the HG, each
costing more than the previous each making claims using fabricated
evidence. Most of them have been uncovered as based on an elaborate fraud.
I thought that you were goiung to get the HG going as a topic of
discussion.
Where I work we are absolutely fed up with the subject. Many of us had had
prolonged business trips to the Toulouse area, over the last 25 years, so
are familiar with Carcassonne,Albi , Beziers etc., we had bought the local
books trecked to the top of old ruined Cathar fortresses (not me because of
Vertigo :O) etc., before The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail was published.
We felt a bit conned when the BBC exposed the Holy Grail book industry,
as a whole series of elaborate frauds. It did take us to some nice places
which we wouldn't have visited otherwise.
If you want a book list e-mail me but I am not starting a discussion.(or
have I??)
Martin
Paul and Molly Mockford
>
>> > Can we have, please, some details of the finances of the
>> > trip - especially cost of boat hire?
>
>Yes, when I've checked with Paul, who is i/c finances, how much it was.
>
Unfortunately we have thrown away the brochure, so I can't tell you
exactly what sort of specification the boat was (length in feet etc.),
but it had two permanent bunks and a potential double converted from
the saloon table as so often.
--
Molly
Paul and Molly Mockford
<m.pat...@consunet.nl> writes
>
>
>Billyboy wrote:
>
>> On 8 Sep 1998 13:39:25 -0000, m.pat...@consunet.nl
>> (MartinP) wrote:
>>
>> > YOU ARE NOT TO MENTION THE HOLY GRaaaaaaaarfghhjkgerrorft on this ng.
>>
>> What are you on about? I don't understand.
>
> The Holy Grail.
> discussion.(or have I??)
Fascinating stuff, though - I don't believe that Jesus was divine
(though I freely admit anyone else's right to!) but I -do- believe
in the Turin Shroud! Weird, or what?
--
Molly
Dr Sean Neill
> in the Turin Shroud! Weird, or what?
>
> --
> Molly
>
on the details.
Sean
Ian Cardinal
(Paul and Molly Mockford) wrote:
> In article <35F64972...@consunet.nl>, MartinP
> <m.pat...@consunet.nl> writes
> >
> >
> >Billyboy wrote:
> >
> >> On 8 Sep 1998 13:39:25 -0000, m.pat...@consunet.nl
> >> (MartinP) wrote:
> >>
> >> > YOU ARE NOT TO MENTION THE HOLY GRaaaaaaaarfghhjkgerrorft on this
> > > ng.
> >>
> >> What are you on about? I don't understand.
> >
> > The Holy Grail.
> > (snip)> If you want a book list e-mail me but I am not starting a
> > discussion.(or have I??)
>
> Fascinating stuff, though - I don't believe that Jesus was divine
> (though I freely admit anyone else's right to!) but I -do- believe
> in the Turin Shroud! Weird, or what?
>
> --
> Molly
>
>
I refuse to rise to this bait!!
Fr. Ian Cardinal
MartinP
> In article <WMUEKKAa...@orbs.demon.co.uk>, mock...@orbs.demon.co.uk
>Molly wrote with baited breath:
> > Fascinating stuff, though - I don't believe that Jesus was divine
> > (though I freely admit anyone else's right to!) but I -do- believe
> > in the Turin Shroud! Weird, or what?
> Fr. Ian Cardinal responded with cautiously:
> I refuse to rise to this bait!!
>
Martin interjected with:
I don't think it was bait, but since the rest of the group is involved
in a flame war, and it's raining cats and dogs outside, I would really
and seriously be interested on your thoughts on the subject of the Turin
Shroud and then the Holy Grail
Martin
Michael J Wooding
Cardinal <nor...@cix.co.uk> writes
>I refuse to rise to this bait!!
Aw shucks - having only one contentious thread is boring :->
Mike
--
Michael J Wooding - nb DRACO http://www.g6iqm.demon.co.uk/draco.htm
NABO Webmaster http://www.clearlight.com/~nabo
email: na...@clearlight.com
The Cutpics site: http://www.vhfcomm.co.uk/cutpics.htm
The Springer Owners Club site: http://www.vhfcomm.co.uk/springer.htm
Michael J Wooding
<m.pat...@consunet.nl> writes
>I don't think it was bait, but since the rest of the group is involved
>in a flame war, and it's raining cats and dogs outside, I would really
>and seriously be interested on your thoughts on the subject of the Turin
>Shroud and then the Holy Grai
Coward!
MartinP
Michael J Wooding wrote:
> In article <35FBE772...@consunet.nl>, MartinP
> <m.pat...@consunet.nl> writes
> >I don't think it was bait, but since the rest of the group is involved
> >in a flame war, and it's raining cats and dogs outside, I would really
> >and seriously be interested on your thoughts on the subject of the Turin
> >Shroud and then the Holy Grai
>
> Coward!
>
Mike,
It is bad usenet etiquette to hurl abuse at the recently appointed newsgroup
chaplain, it's in the RCD. Now you have frightened him away.
MartinP(WOT)
Molly
>
>> (though I freely admit anyone else's right to!) but I -do- believe
>> in the Turin Shroud! Weird, or what?
>>
>> Molly
>>
>>
>I refuse to rise to this bait!!
>
>
It wasn't bait, as in baiting anyone - but it could, I suppose, be
considered bait in the sense of offering a tempting morsel to see
whether anyone takes an interest in it!
--
Molly WOT
Molly
<delt...@netcomuk.co.uk> writes
>Molly <mock...@orbs.demon.co.uk> recently penned ...
>
>>Molly WOT
>
>When Martin Paterson (WOT) wrote WOT I thought of writing 'wot?' cause he's
>actually WTT. However, when Molly (WOT) wrote "WOT" I thought wot? Molly
>has wot not.
>
>Wot?
>
>Jim Pulling
In my case, WOT = Well Off Topic. Eh wot?
:-)
--
Molly
MartinP
Molly wrote:
Why is this discusion so much more satisfying than the alternative at the
moment, namely RE:LTHTS(wBCN)?
MartinP(WOT)
Ian Cardinal
(MartinP) wrote:
> Ian Cardinal wrote:
>
> > In article <WMUEKKAa...@orbs.demon.co.uk>,
> > mock...@orbs.demon.co.uk
> >Molly wrote with baited breath:
> > > Fascinating stuff, though - I don't believe that Jesus was divine
> > > (though I freely admit anyone else's right to!) but I -do- believe
> > > in the Turin Shroud! Weird, or what?
>
> > Fr. Ian Cardinal responded with cautiously:
> > I refuse to rise to this bait!!
> >
>
> Martin interjected with:
>
> I don't think it was bait, but since the rest of the group is involved
> in a flame war, and it's raining cats and dogs outside, I would really
> and seriously be interested on your thoughts on the subject of the Turin
> Shroud and then the Holy Grail
> Martin
>
It's bait if not connected with Waterways. I can find a reference to
Waterways in most things, but not, I think, in the Turin shroud!
I'm about to start Teaching would be Readers a Unit called "Word & Spirit"
- it's for those who want to be Lay preachers in the CofE. The first Unit
comes very neatly under this sort of thing, defining Post Modernism &
Britain as Post Modernist. What it means is the kind of Individualism that
Molly is exhibiting:
e.g. - the opinion that there is no such thing as objective truth - rather
everything is opinion "it may be true for you, but not for me..." In other
words it becomes possible to believe in the Turin shroud, but not Jesus.
The trouble is that as an ex-Engineer I find that kind of non-philosophy
mind-boggling. Either Jesus is as he says he is & has been proclaimed down
the centuries, or he is a fraud & Turin is equally fraudulent. Can we have
both - I don't think so.
Sorry, but you did ask
Ian Cardinal
(aka Norman the narrowboat)
Dr Sean Neill
> everything is opinion "it may be true for you, but not for me..." In other
> words it becomes possible to believe in the Turin shroud, but not Jesus.
>
> The trouble is that as an ex-Engineer I find that kind of non-philosophy
> mind-boggling.
>
>
The nicest rebuttal to it that I've seen (in the Times Higher a few
years back, was something like
It doesn't matter what your world-view was if you've just been run
over by a bus.
i.e. reality is not altered by what people think about it.
Sean
Jeff Dennison
>It doesn't matter what your world-view was if you've just been run
>over by a bus.
>
>i.e. reality is not altered by what people think about it.
>
To one who subscribes to a phenominological perspective social reality
is constructed by us all.
Regards
Jeff
--
Songs of the Waterways - compact disc "They're coming back to the water"
Web site http://www.pipemedia.net/users/jeffd/index.htm
Telephone: 01203 615582 Mobile 07970 281853
If you ain't makin' waves, you ain't kickin' hard enough!
Molly
>(MartinP) wrote:
>
>> Ian Cardinal wrote:
>>
>> > In article <WMUEKKAa...@orbs.demon.co.uk>,
>> > mock...@orbs.demon.co.uk
>> >Molly wrote with baited breath:
>> > > Fascinating stuff, though - I don't believe that Jesus was divine
>> > > (though I freely admit anyone else's right to!) but I -do- believe
>> > > in the Turin Shroud! Weird, or what?
>>
>> > Fr. Ian Cardinal responded with cautiously:
>> > I refuse to rise to this bait!!
>> >
>>
>> Martin interjected with:
>>
>> I don't think it was bait, but since the rest of the group is involved
>> in a flame war, and it's raining cats and dogs outside, I would really
>> and seriously be interested on your thoughts on the subject of the Turin
>> Shroud and then the Holy Grail
>> Martin
>>
>It's bait if not connected with Waterways. I can find a reference to
>Waterways in most things, but not, I think, in the Turin shroud!
>
>I'm about to start Teaching would be Readers a Unit called "Word & Spirit"
> - it's for those who want to be Lay preachers in the CofE. The first Unit
>comes very neatly under this sort of thing, defining Post Modernism &
>Britain as Post Modernist. What it means is the kind of Individualism that
>Molly is exhibiting:
>
>everything is opinion "it may be true for you, but not for me..." In other
>words it becomes possible to believe in the Turin shroud, but not Jesus.
>
>The trouble is that as an ex-Engineer I find that kind of non-philosophy
>the centuries, or he is a fraud & Turin is equally fraudulent. Can we have
>both - I don't think so.
>
>Sorry, but you did ask
>
which is why I foolishly thought it might amuse people. I really didn't
mean to offend anybody. I'm sorry.
--
Molly
David Long
Cardinal <nor...@cix.co.uk> writes
>The trouble is that as an ex-Engineer I find that kind of non-philosophy
>mind-boggling. Either Jesus is as he says he is & has been proclaimed down
>the centuries, or he is a fraud & Turin is equally fraudulent. Can we have
>both - I don't think so.
At Kings (London) we always did have trouble believing there was
intelligent life in the Engineering Dept..
--
David Long
Visit the Sankey Canal Restoration Society's Website at:
http://www.scars.demon.co.uk/scars/
Updated: 28/7/98
Jeff Dennison
Given the difficulties experienced by some folk on the list/group in
being ripped off by boat builders I have sought some advice about who
to get a boat from.
If buying from a builder make sure they are members of the BMIF as
their will provide a little safeguard. BMIF members have contracts
available and you should obtain one of these at the time you place
your order. Too often we buy very expensive items like boats on the
strength of a handshake and because the guy selling the boat seems
pretty Ok to us. However, most good con men have a surfeit of good
communication and social skills. If they didn't they wouldn't be able
to get away with what they do.
There is also a Narrowboat Builders Organisation that is linked to the
BMIF. Any worthwhile builder should belong to the professional
organisation. Make sure you have a written contract and if necessary
get your lawyer to look at it and amend it to give you as much
protection as possible should the yard/builder go broke. If the yard
won't sign the amended contract go elsewhere.
Make sure that the contract has stage payments and that as soon as the
payment is made for the laying of the keel you are the owner and that
the builder is only a contractor building the boat for you.
These precautions are necessary and even then you may not be fully
covered if you can insure against the builder going bust then do so.
Sorry this is too late for those who have had difficulties we all want
to believe that people are basically honest but when you are making
what is often the second biggest expenditure of your life you need to
safeguard your hard earned cash as much as possible.
Michael B Holt
writes:
[I'm going to erase all the stuff about who wrote what, because
I can't figure it out]
>>> Martin interjected with:
>>>
>>> I don't think it was bait, but since the rest of the group is
involved
>>> in a flame war, and it's raining cats and dogs outside, I would
really
>>> and seriously be interested on your thoughts on the subject of the
Turin
>>> Shroud and then the Holy Grail
>>> Martin
There's been a resurgence of interest in the Grail legends, in the USA.
Or, at least, some books on the subject are being displayed prominently
in some bookstores.
>>It's bait if not connected with Waterways. I can find a reference to
>>Waterways in most things, but not, I think, in the Turin shroud!
[this must be Ian...]
Perhaps if the Way in this case is deemed as easy to travel as though
filled with smooth water, the locks being normal struggles for growth...
?
>>I'm about to start Teaching would be Readers a Unit called "Word &
Spirit"
>> - it's for those who want to be Lay preachers in the CofE. The first
Unit
>>comes very neatly under this sort of thing, defining Post Modernism &
>>Britain as Post Modernist. What it means is the kind of Individualism
that
>>Molly is exhibiting:
What's a "Reader"?
>>e.g. - the opinion that there is no such thing as objective truth -
rather
>>everything is opinion "it may be true for you, but not for me..." In
other
>>words it becomes possible to believe in the Turin shroud, but not
Jesus.
>>The trouble is that as an ex-Engineer I find that kind of
non-philosophy
>>mind-boggling. Either Jesus is as he says he is & has been proclaimed
down
>>the centuries, or he is a fraud & Turin is equally fraudulent. Can we
have
>>both - I don't think so.
Hmmm...
I thought Jesus' status was not questioned within the context of
Christianity, but the Shroud was under some pressure within the church
for a concrete proof. (It's my understanding that the Shroud's been
demonstrated by at least one method to be younger than it "should" be.
That may not alter its value, however.)
>>Sorry, but you did ask
LOL!
>I was mind-boggled myself at the impossibility of holding both opinions,
>which is why I foolishly thought it might amuse people. I really didn't
>mean to offend anybody. I'm sorry.
Offended? Not me, anyway! All of this is about life and learning and
new things.
Michael the Presbyterian
--
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Jackie Lewis
(after Molly said)>
>>I was mind-boggled myself at the impossibility of holding both opinions,
>>which is why I foolishly thought it might amuse people. I really didn't
>>mean to offend anybody. I'm sorry.
>
>Offended? Not me, anyway! All of this is about life and learning and
>new things.
Nor me, Molly; your posts are lovely!
Best wishes,
Jackie
MartinP
Molly baited a hook and pulled in her first fish:
> In article <memo.1998091...@norman.compulink.co.uk>, Ian
> Cardinal <nor...@cix.co.uk> writes
> >In article <35FBE772...@consunet.nl>, m.pat...@consunet.nl
> >(MartinP) wrote:
> >
> >> Ian Cardinal wrote:
> >>
> >> > In article <WMUEKKAa...@orbs.demon.co.uk>,
> >> > mock...@orbs.demon.co.uk
> >> >Molly wrote with baited breath:
> >> > > Fascinating stuff, though - I don't believe that Jesus was divine
> >> > > (though I freely admit anyone else's right to!) but I -do- believe
> >> > > in the Turin Shroud! Weird, or what?
> >>
> >> > Fr. Ian Cardinal responded with cautiously:
> >> > I refuse to rise to this bait!!
> >> >
> >>
> >> Martin interjected with:
> >>
> >> I don't think it was bait, but since the rest of the group is involved
> >> in a flame war, and it's raining cats and dogs outside, I would really
> >> and seriously be interested on your thoughts on the subject of the Turin
> >> Shroud and then the Holy Grail
> >> Martin
> >>
> >It's bait if not connected with Waterways. I can find a reference to
> >Waterways in most things, but not, I think, in the Turin shroud!
> >
> >I'm about to start Teaching would be Readers a Unit called "Word & Spirit"
> > - it's for those who want to be Lay preachers in the CofE. The first Unit
> >comes very neatly under this sort of thing, defining Post Modernism &
> >Britain as Post Modernist. What it means is the kind of Individualism that
> >Molly is exhibiting:
> >
> >e.g. - the opinion that there is no such thing as objective truth - rather
> >everything is opinion "it may be true for you, but not for me..." In other
> >words it becomes possible to believe in the Turin shroud, but not Jesus.
> >
> >The trouble is that as an ex-Engineer I find that kind of non-philosophy
> >mind-boggling. Either Jesus is as he says he is & has been proclaimed down
> >the centuries, or he is a fraud & Turin is equally fraudulent. Can we have
> >both - I don't think so.
> >
> >Sorry, but you did ask
> >
> I was mind-boggled myself at the impossibility of holding both opinions,
> which is why I foolishly thought it might amuse people. I really didn't
> mean to offend anybody. I'm sorry.
> --
> Molly
a) christ is crucified
b) christ is wrapped in a shroud
c) shroud is preserved hidden some where
d) shroud re-appears in 13-14th century
e) Shroud still exists today
Shroud is not miraculous, just very old, other things are also very old,
Molly
a) does not believe Christ was devine.
b) believes the shroud is authentic.
NO inconsistency.
Christ does not have to be devine for the shroud to be authentic.
Martin is not sure about christ or much else anymore, but does not believe the
shroud is THAT old, because Scientists have radio carbon dated it to 14th
century. Yes I know there are lots of semi-scientific alternative theories, but
I don't believe them.
Martin
a)sometimes believes Christ is devine, especially when he flies in very bad
weather:O)
b) definitely believes the shroud is a fraud.
again no inconsistency.
Fr. Ian Cardinal believes
a)Christ is devine
b)the shroud is authentic.
Again no inconsistency
Good I am glad we have got that over, now I can go on holiday :O)
Ian what about the Holy Grail?
Mike Stevens
1) That the Turin Shroud exists
2) That the marks on it are some sort of quasi-photographic
imprint of a human body
3) That it has nothing whatever to do with the historic person
Jesus of Nazareth.
It's also surely possible to believe these things whatever one
believes of the relationship between Jesus of Nazareth and any
form of God.
--
Mike Stevens
nb Felis Catus II
THIS IS POSTED TO THE CANALS MAILING-LIST (and hence also to
uk.rec.waterways). PLEASE DO NOT CROSS-POST, COPY OR QUOTE IT TO
ANY OTHER DESTINATION WITHOUT MY PERMISSION.
Any off-list replies, please, to michael...@which.net
Mike Stevens
>
> Martin is not sure about christ or much else anymore, but does not believe the
> shroud is THAT old, because Scientists have radio carbon dated it to 14th
> century.
I thought it was a bit later, because I remember thinking "Oh,
that's OK then, just another of Leonardo's experiments". That was
in the days when Leonardo meant da Vinci, not whatever-his-name-is
in the movies.
> Ian what about the Holy Grail?
Tell us when you find it!
mpat...@estec.esa.nl
MartinP wrote:
mike stevens answered,
>>
>> Martin is not sure about christ or much else anymore, but does not believe
the
>> shroud is THAT old, because Scientists have radio carbon dated it to 14th
>> century.
>I thought it was a bit later, because I remember thinking "Oh,
>that's OK then, just another of Leonardo's experiments".
with Kate W.?
maybe 15th Century then?
I thought that's alright then, because that's when the holy relic business was
at it's peak
Sounded like a load of Papal Bull.
>That was
>in the days when Leonardo meant da Vinci, not whatever-his-name-is
>in the movies.
Was mass producing relics for the gullible? planning the movie Titanic?
(psst! wanna buy a real relic guv.?)
> Ian what about the Holy Grail?
>Tell us when you find it!
If I can't find it on this site, I am not going to find it anywhere.
I was hoping Dral (A as in cAstle) would get around to it, when he's finished
all the rooting, tooting and flambeeing.
ATB Martin
Mike Stevens
>
> MartinP wrote:
>
> mike stevens answered,
> >>
> >> Martin is not sure about christ or much else anymore, but does not believe
> the
> >> shroud is THAT old, because Scientists have radio carbon dated it to 14th
> >> century.
>
> >I thought it was a bit later, because I remember thinking "Oh,
> >that's OK then, just another of Leonardo's experiments".
>
>
> (psst! wanna buy a real relic guv.?)
Inventing photography was what I had in mind, but please yourself!
> Dral (A as in cAstle)
Is that as in Windsor Castle or as in Newcastle? Quite different
vowel-sounds.
Mike Stevens
>
> > Ian what about the Holy Grail?
>
> >Tell us when you find it!
>
> If I can't find it on this site, I am not going to find it anywhere.
>
> I was hoping Dral (A as in cAstle) would get around to it, when he's finished
> all the rooting, tooting and flambeeing.
>
It's probably lurking in one of his unpublished pages. Unless
somebody's left it on Thorn.
--
Andy Greener
Uh-oh. Now you've done it.... ;-)
Andy Greener, Whitchurch-on-Thames, Oxfordshire, UK
an...@gid.co.uk or an...@ist.co.uk or 0118 956 1248
Mike Stevens
>
> Mike Stevens <mike...@which.net> writes:
> >
> > > Dral (A as in cAstle)
> >
> > Is that as in Windsor Castle or as in Newcastle?
>
> Uh-oh. Now you've done it.... ;-)
I thought I might have done :->
molly_m...@my-dejanews.com
> MartinP wrote:
>
> I was hoping Dral (A as in cAstle) would get around to it, when he's finished
> all the rooting, tooting and flambeeing.
>
--
Molly
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Malcolm Nixon
(Jeff Dennison) wrote:
>.
>.Given the difficulties experienced by some folk on the list/group in
>.being ripped off by boat builders I have sought some advice about who
>.to get a boat from.
>.
<snip>
A useful article "Building a Narrowboat - Contracts" in Canal
Boat the October issue now out
--
Malcolm,
-spam goes in the bin
-remove the later to email
David Long
<mike...@which.net> writes
>Surely it's possible to believe :
>
>1) That the Turin Shroud exists
>
>2) That the marks on it are some sort of quasi-photographic
>imprint of a human body
>
>3) That it has nothing whatever to do with the historic person
>Jesus of Nazareth.
>
>
>It's also surely possible to believe these things whatever one
>believes of the relationship between Jesus of Nazareth and any
>form of God.
Yes.
Richard Lucas
from molly_m...@my-dejanews.com contains these words:
> Is that cahstle, as in frightfully English, or cassle, as in American? :-)
The criminal population of West Yorkshire refer to Armley Prison in
Leeds, which has lots of battlements and crenallations, as "Hassle Castle"
"Hassle" and "castle" rhyme if you come from Leeds. You don't have
to be American, just not from Dahnsarf.
--
Cheers
Richard
Dave Green
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Dennison <jeff-f...@pipemedia.co.uk>
To: can...@blacksheep.org <can...@blacksheep.org>
Date: 17 September 1998 20:17
Subject: Buying a new boat
>If buying from a builder make sure they are members of the BMIF as
>their will provide a little safeguard.
There are though some very good builders who have decided, for various
reasons, not to join BMIF. Membership may be an indication of
professionalism but not a guarantee. BMIF does not operate a bonding scheme
ie it won't pick up the tab if one of its members goes belly up.
> BMIF members have contracts
>available and you should obtain one of these at the time you place
>your order
When we ordered the shell for Willy No-Name from Graham Edgson of Norton
Canes Boatbuilders (who is not a BMIF member) I devised and wrote a contract
which covers all Jeff's points. RYA also produces a standard boat building
contract which can be adopted to meet your particular needs - you can insist
on the builder signing the contract if he wants to get the work.
Incidentally, just because there is a standard BMIF contract, it's still
well worth reading it carefully before you sign. You can agree with the
builder any changes to suit the individual circumstances of the purchase. At
the end of the day, you are the customer. Don't accept crap about "We can't
change the contract cos our insurance company won't let us".
>There is also a Narrowboat Builders Organisation that is linked to the
>BMIF.
That's the CBA - Canal Boatbuilders Association - it is actually part of the
BMIF.
> Any worthwhile builder should belong to the professional
>organisation
I don't think this is necessarily so - see above. I wouldn't let
non-membership put me off using a particular builder but (with any builder)
I'd do a lot of research into past record, reputation, satisfied customers
etc. And of course the contract is vital.
As an afterthought - you could probably insure against the builder going
bust.
Dave Green
nb Willy No-Name
Mike Clarke
>>
>> I was hoping Dral (A as in cAstle) would get around to it, when he's
>>finished
>> all the rooting, tooting and flambeeing.
>>
No, Kassel, as in Germany.
na zdrowie
Mike Clarke, 41 Fountain St, Accrington, UK, BB5 0QR
tel & fax: +44 (0)1254-395848
http://www.zen.co.uk/home/page/mike.clarke/home.htm
Ian Cardinal
(MartinP) wrote:
>
> a) christ is crucified
> b) christ is wrapped in a shroud
> c) shroud is preserved hidden some where
> d) shroud re-appears in 13-14th century
> e) Shroud still exists today
> Shroud is not miraculous, just very old, other things are also very old,
> Molly
> a) does not believe Christ was devine.
> b) believes the shroud is authentic.
> NO inconsistency.
Actually, not quite. Why is the shroud "miraculously" imprinted (with the
face of Jesus?) unless something of awesome power has happened near to it.
Can you believe in an authentic & miraculous shroud & not an authentic &
miraculous Jesus? Or is this post-modernism again (my brain hurts!)
>
> Christ does not have to be devine for the shroud to be authentic.
>
> Martin is not sure about christ or much else anymore, but does not
> believe the
> shroud is THAT old, because Scientists have radio carbon dated it to
> 14th
> century. Yes I know there are lots of semi-scientific alternative
> theories, but
> I don't believe them.
> Martin
> a)sometimes believes Christ is devine, especially when he flies in very
> bad
> weather:O)
> b) definitely believes the shroud is a fraud.
> again no inconsistency.
>
> Fr. Ian Cardinal believes
> a)Christ is devine
> b)the shroud is authentic.
(not sure about this one)
> Again no inconsistency
> Good I am glad we have got that over, now I can go on holiday :O)
>
> Ian what about the Holy Grail?
>
>
Actually that Christ is divine, not devine (being a pedant)
I am very unsure about both shroud & grail. If God wanted us to be able to
"prove" Christianity in this way, why is he so keen for us to have faith &
trust in him without proof?
Ian Cardinal
(David Long) wrote:
> At Kings (London) we always did have trouble believing there was
> intelligent life in the Engineering Dept..
As an ex-Student of Queens (Birmingham) I refuse to comment upon Students
of Kings.....
Ian Cardinal
michae...@juno.com (Michael B Holt) wrote:
>
> What's a "Reader"?
>
Church of England Licensed lay Preacher & Worship Leader
Well you did ask - again!
Ian Cardinal
Stevens) wrote:
> Surely it's possible to believe :
>
> 1) That the Turin Shroud exists
>
> 2) That the marks on it are some sort of quasi-photographic
> imprint of a human body
>
> 3) That it has nothing whatever to do with the historic person
> Jesus of Nazareth.
>
>
> It's also surely possible to believe these things whatever one
> believes of the relationship between Jesus of Nazareth and any
> form of God.
>
Absolutely Michael
But it all rather loses interest if it's either a fake - or simply a
meaningless accident. The interest in the shroud is usually based on the
possibility that it's a "photograph" of Jesus at the Resurrection.
Mike Stevens
>
> But it all rather loses interest if it's either a fake - or simply a
> meaningless accident. The interest in the shroud is usually based on the
> possibility that it's a "photograph" of Jesus at the Resurrection.
That's the traditional interest, but not the only one. It depends
on your point of view. If there is some way in which a
quasi-photograph can be made without human intervention, that is
of interest. If somebody in the 14th or 15th Century had come
close to anticipating the invention of photography, them that's of
*immense* interest to me. If either of these were the truth, I
can understand how some people in the late middle ages would have
dressed the facts up with a spurious Jesus-connection. But to me
the interest in such a case would be in the underlying physics
rather than the pilgrim-trap puiblicity.
Mike Stevens
>
> In article <5aC6EGA4...@scars.demon.co.uk>, Da...@scars.demon.co.uk
> (David Long) wrote:
>
> > At Kings (London) we always did have trouble believing there was
> > intelligent life in the Engineering Dept..
>
As an ex-=student of what used to be Queen Mary College, London,
we had a rude song about KCL students. And some of us had
difficulty believeing in intelligent life in the WEngineering
Faculty of *any* college!
David Long
Cardinal <nor...@cix.co.uk> writes
> The interest in the shroud is usually based on the
>possibility that it's a "photograph" of Jesus at the Resurrection.
I thought he was usually portrayed as walking about looking like a
gardener then... the shroud would have been on a dead body.
David Long
>(David Long) wrote:
>
>> At Kings (London) we always did have trouble believing there was
>> intelligent life in the Engineering Dept..
>
>of Kings.....
Yes, I can understand that.
MartinP
Richard Lucas wrote:
> The message <6ttneo$luh$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
> from molly_m...@my-dejanews.com contains these words:
>
> > Is that cahstle, as in frightfully English, or cassle, as in American? :-)
>
> The criminal population of West Yorkshire refer to Armley Prison in
> Leeds, which has lots of battlements and crenallations, as "Hassle Castle"
>
> "Hassle" and "castle" rhyme if you come from Leeds. You don't have
> to be American, just not from Dahnsarf.
Harssle and Carstle rhyme in the deep sarf too
Martin :O)