Terrible Holiday With Black Prince
dan...@w1mny.co.uk
I just wanted to write about my recent holiday experience with Black
Prince and see if anyone else had suffered similarly with this company.
We hired 'Holly' for a party of 7 for a week in mid-September. From the
time we went aboard we could smell damp and saw wet patches near the
back of the boat. We're not boat experts (for most of us this was only
our first or second time on a canalboat) and guessed it was water that
had been trodden in by the cleaners getting the boat ready for us.
The next day the wet was much worse so we rang Black Prince at their
Stoke Prior base and they were very dismissive, saying that there
wasn't a problem with the boat and we couldn't be emptying the bilge
pump properly (which we were). With this attitude, we decided to
monitor the problem and see if it got worse.
Half way through the holiday we had enough evidence to tell us that
there was probably a leak on the boat. The gauge was dropping even when
none of us were aboard the boat, let alone using the facilities. It was
really inconvenient and stressful to have to wash and shower minimally
and use bottled water supplies to brush our teeth and flush the toilet.
We contacted Black Prince again in a detailed email, explaining that we
suspected a leak. We gave a telephone number to contact us but no one
did. We decided that as we had coped so far already and we were more
than halfway through the holiday, we should just hang in and wait till
we handed the boat back in and point out the problem to the staff at
the base.
The next day we rang the Black Prince base again and they were fully
aware of our leak and damp problem. We needed somewhere to moor that
was next to a water point or else the boat would have ran out of water
completely. They suggested we use a Viking mooring, which the Viking
people kindly agreed to.
On the Saturday morning we brought the boat back to base at half eight
in the morning and unloaded. Then we updated the staff - again - of the
problems we'd experienced with the boat. No apology, only a 'Thanks for
telling us, the people before you didn't say anything.' Later that day
we got an email saying that the boat's leak had been found and fixed
and the boat was back in service.
When we got home, we wrote a complaint to the director of Black Prince,
Tim Parker. We explained the distress and disruption caused by the
boat's problems and by the lack of customer care provided by the staff
at Stoke Prior. One of our party was 74 years of age and another,
myself, has Asperger's Syndrome - a mild form of autism. We were hoping
at the very least to receive an apology from the company.
Mr Parker's response was short and belligerent. We won't be using Black
Prince ever again and I would strongly advise anyone reading this to be
very cautious about going with Black Prince in future.
Has anyone else had problems with Black Prince and, in particular, any
experience with their boat 'Holly' ?
Thanks,
Daniel Tammet
Brian Cleverly
Not a problem with a hire, but certainly with the company and their policies
and/or lack of flexibility in such.
In August booked a week for June 2006 and paid the deposit.
Then Hurricane Katrina came along. Fortunately Sacramento California is no
where near the damage area, but with 10s of thousands of people homeless, and
goverment bungling not helping, we decided to share our housing with a needy
family and help get them back on their feet.
Because of the anticipated costs involved we decided we wouldn't be able to take
the planned holiday in 2006.
I contacted Black Prince, explained the situation, and asked could they put our
booking back a year until 2007.
The answer I received was a definite *NO*, and that we would be held liable for
the full hire cost unless they could re-sell the time slot.
If they were able to re-sell we would incur 15% of hire cost as an
administrative cancellation fee.
I must say I was aware of these restrictions going in, but did expect a more
flexible approach on the company's part.
Needless to say, Black Prince will not be the company we hire from in 2007.
Brian C
Sacramento California.
Dave Mayall
wrote:
>Not a problem with a hire, but certainly with the company and their policies
>and/or lack of flexibility in such.
>
>In August booked a week for June 2006 and paid the deposit.
>
>Then Hurricane Katrina came along. Fortunately Sacramento California is no
>where near the damage area, but with 10s of thousands of people homeless, and
>goverment bungling not helping, we decided to share our housing with a needy
>family and help get them back on their feet.
Very noble of you.
>Because of the anticipated costs involved we decided we wouldn't be able to take
>the planned holiday in 2006.
In which case, your noble gesture is all the more noble, because it
will involve a personal sacrifice.
>I contacted Black Prince, explained the situation, and asked could they put our
>booking back a year until 2007.
>
>The answer I received was a definite *NO*, and that we would be held liable for
>the full hire cost unless they could re-sell the time slot.
>
>If they were able to re-sell we would incur 15% of hire cost as an
>administrative cancellation fee.
They had reserved a boat for you, they couldn't hire that boat to
other people who may now have booked elsewhere instead.
If you took out insurance, and the cancellation is within the range of
reasons allowed for, the insurance will pay.
However, I suspect it isn't.
Insurance covers you for things that happen to you, not things that
you decide to do.
>I must say I was aware of these restrictions going in, but did expect a more
>flexible approach on the company's part.
Why?
Had you been personally affected by the hurricane, I would have
expected full sympathy. As it is, you *chose* to put yourself in a
position not to take the holiday. As such, you must take
responsibility for the costs incurred.
Why should BP be responsible for the decisions you make.
>Needless to say, Black Prince will not be the company we hire from in 2007.
I suspect that whoever you had hired from, the answer would have been
the same.
--
Dave Mayall
Peter Stockdale
"Dave Mayall" <david....@ukonline.co.uk> wrote in message >
> you decide to do.
>
>>I must say I was aware of these restrictions going in, but did expect a
>>more
>>flexible approach on the company's part.
>
> Why?
>
> Had you been personally affected by the hurricane, I would have
> expected full sympathy. As it is, you *chose* to put yourself in a
> position not to take the holiday. As such, you must take
> responsibility for the costs incurred.
>
> Why should BP be responsible for the decisions you make.
>
>>Needless to say, Black Prince will not be the company we hire from in
>>2007.
>
> I suspect that whoever you had hired from, the answer would have been
> the same.
> --
> Dave Mayall
I must agree with Dave.
I have hired from BP many a time and found them to be excellent.
I have not had the misfortune of having a problem with any of their boats
or booking timings.
Alan N Estherby
> I have hired from BP many a time and found them to be excellent.
> I have not had the misfortune of having a problem with any of their boats
> or booking timings.
>
> Pete
> www.thecanalshop.com
Which is all very well, but what if you *had* experienced a problem? Would
you have been satisfied with the response (that is to say, no response!)
that the first poster received?
I would imagine that quite a few Black Prince clients are satisfied - if you
don't satisfy at least some of the clients some of the time you won't stay
in business very long - but to me the true test of a business is when
something *does* go wrong.
We are all fallible, so problems occur -but when they do I for one would
expect a far better response than BP gave to the original poster.
On my very first hire, back in 1979 from Calcutt Boats, my group had a
problem with our boat on the second day (a Sunday) - funnily enough, that
was a leak of some sort, I seem to recall.
A call to Calcutt received an immediate response, and when it quickly became
clear it needed an engineer to visit one was despatched and arrived within
half an hour. Less than 30 minutes later the problem was fixed and we were
on our way.
As a result, our opinion of Calcutt was certainly not adversely affected,
quite the reverse in fact, and we hired from them again later that same
year - without problems of any sort and they seem to enjoy a good reputation
today, some 25 years or so later.
Having seen from this post that Black Prince appear to do things
differently, I certainly wouldn't hire from them; hopefully Peter you will
continue to enjoy your hiring's without any problems occurring!
Alan
Richard
Picking up on another point in the original post: We recently stopped at
the Viking base in Worcester and ended up mooring overnight there. They
were a very nice and friendly bunch of people. I always used to
recommend Anglo-welsh to people, I think I may add viking to that list
--
Richard
Peter Stockdale
"Alan N Estherby" <a...@notinthisworld.com> wrote in message
news:F5Q0f.5639$Nv6....@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
>
>
> Having seen from this post that Black Prince appear to do things
> differently, I certainly wouldn't hire from them; hopefully Peter you will
> continue to enjoy your hiring's without any problems occurring!
>
> Alan
" I certainly wouldn't hire from them" (A.N.E.)
Hearsay - I prefer to judge on more than one experience and I have much more
experience apparently than the O.P.
KGB
>
>On my very first hire, back in 1979 from Calcutt Boats, my group had a
>problem with our boat on the second day (a Sunday) - funnily enough, that
>was a leak of some sort, I seem to recall.
>
>A call to Calcutt received an immediate response, and when it quickly became
>clear it needed an engineer to visit one was despatched and arrived within
>half an hour. Less than 30 minutes later the problem was fixed and we were
>on our way.
>
>As a result, our opinion of Calcutt was certainly not adversely affected,
>quite the reverse in fact, and we hired from them again later that same
>year - without problems of any sort and they seem to enjoy a good reputation
>today, some 25 years or so later.
Hi
In my experience of narrow boat hire with a fair number of hire
companies (most years since 1972), all without exception have
despatched an engineer immediately on a problem being reported -
ranging from a dodgy fresh water pump to a seized gear box.
The longest we have ever been delayed by a fault was just under a day
whilst the company located and fitted the new gearbox. This delay
didn't pose a problem - we made sure we broke down outside a real ale
pub!!!! 8^)
Whilst we have never hired from Black Prince, every hire company we
have reported a problem to were sympathetic, helpful and got us on our
way again as soon as possible.
Regards
KGB
Peter Stockdale
"KGB (KGB)" <FedUpW...@NoEmailAddre.ss> wrote in in
> Hi
>
> In my experience of narrow boat hire with a fair number of hire
> companies (most years since 1972), all without exception have
> despatched an engineer immediately on a problem being reported -
> ranging from a dodgy fresh water pump to a seized gear box.
>
> The longest we have ever been delayed by a fault was just under a day
> whilst the company located and fitted the new gearbox. This delay
> didn't pose a problem - we made sure we broke down outside a real ale
> pub!!!! 8^)
>
> Whilst we have never hired from Black Prince, every hire company we
> have reported a problem to were sympathetic, helpful and got us on our
> way again as soon as possible.
> Regards
>
>
> KGB
My experience as well.
"I would strongly advise anyone reading this to be
very cautious about going with Black Prince in future."
: - wrote Daniel -
Perhaps his presumptuous advice to us is an example of the style of the
letter he wrote to the M.D. of B.P.
"Mr Parker's response was short and belligerent" :- wrote Daniel -
Perhaps it was deserved !
Publish and prove me wrong !!
Alan N Estherby
"Peter Stockdale" <peter....@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:3qihj0F...@individual.net...
And yet in defending Black Prince earlier in this tread, he says: *I have
not had the misfortune of having a problem with any of their boats *
So in fact, Peter you have not had to call upon Black Prince's customer
service back up? How therefore can you comment on how good or bad that
back up is? As I implied before, it is great when all goes well, and I am
sure we would all hope never to have to call upon the breakdown guys, but
when they are needed, they should come when called - as most seem to do
And yet you choose to call Daniel presumptuous in bringing his problems with
Black Prince to our attention? And note Daniel did NOT say *Do not hire
from these people*, he merely says exercise caution. It seems to me it not
Daniel who is being presumptuous.
You have had good experiences with Black Prince, and therefore feel able to
disregard Daniel's comments, which is fine and good. That is no reason
however to rubbish Daniel's comments, which in the circumstances strike me
as mild. In particular, to call his remarks *hearsay* (earlier in the
thread) when they are in fact first hand user experience smacks of
arrogance.
For me, I would take Daniel's comments into account and be cautious as to
this particular company until they convinced me otherwise - after all, there
are plenty of other companies to choose from.
Alan
Will Chapman
>> Publish and prove me wrong !!
>>
Black Prince didn't send out (or provide adequate instruction
over the phone) engineers when the hirers were reporting what
could have led to a sunken boat (or worse).
If that had happened to me I would have written a strongly
worded complaint and I would have expected an apology.
Either way, I don't see how publishing the the letter, however
strongly worded, is related to whether Black Prince's poor
service is a reason for 'buyer beware' for prospective hirers.
--
Cheers.......
Will Chapman
nb Quidditch
Dave Mayall
<a...@notinthisworld.com> wrote:
>For me, I would take Daniel's comments into account and be cautious as to
>this particular company until they convinced me otherwise - after all, there
>are plenty of other companies to choose from.
Well, I'm not about to hire from anybody, but my experience from
talking to BP hirers is that they are pleased with the service they
receive.
From a private boaters POV, I like BP, because their standard of
tuition for hirers strikes me as well above average.
--
Dave Mayall
Dave Mayall
<nbquidd...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
>Alan N Estherby wrote:
>> "Peter Stockdale" <peter....@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
>>>>
>>> Perhaps it was deserved !
>>> Publish and prove me wrong !!
>>>
>Surely this is missing the point. The point is that it seems that
>Black Prince didn't send out (or provide adequate instruction
>over the phone) engineers when the hirers were reporting what
>could have led to a sunken boat (or worse).
The point is that if the hirers;
1) Gave no coherent account of the problem
2) Were generally abusive and aggressive
It may have bee put down to the idiot factor.
--
Dave Mayall
David Long
Dave Mayall <david....@ukonline.co.uk> writes
attitude and survive?
--
David Long
Sankey Canal Restoration Society http://www.scars.org.uk/
St. Mary's http://www.geocities.com/andrew_fishburn/stmary1.html
http://www.scars.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/webcam/
Peter Stockdale
"Alan N Estherby" <a...@notinthisworld.com> wrote in message
news:CMU0f.180$%w....@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...
>
>>> >
>> > Whilst we have never hired from Black Prince, every hire company we
>> > have reported a problem to were sympathetic, helpful and got us on our
>> > way again as soon as possible.
>> > Regards
>> >
>> >
>> > KGB
>>
>>
>> My experience as well.
>>
>>
>>
>
> And yet in defending Black Prince earlier in this tread, he says: *I have
> not had the misfortune of having a problem with any of their boats *
>
> So in fact, Peter you have not had to call upon Black Prince's customer
> service back up?
Correct - but I have no reason to believe that they not would be helpful
etc., as KGB suggested.
How therefore can you comment on how good or bad that
> back up is? As I implied before, it is great when all goes well, and I
> am
> sure we would all hope never to have to call upon the breakdown guys, but
> when they are needed, they should come when called - as most seem to do
>
> And yet you choose to call Daniel presumptuous in bringing his problems
> with
> Black Prince to our attention? And note Daniel did NOT say *Do not hire
> from these people*, he merely says exercise caution. It seems to me it
> not
> Daniel who is being presumptuous.
Caution implies care not normally necessary - presumptious I maintain, in
this context - what cautionary procedures should we employ ?
>
> You have had good experiences with Black Prince, and therefore feel able
> to
> disregard Daniel's comments, which is fine and good. That is no reason
> however to rubbish Daniel's comments, which in the circumstances strike me
> as mild. In particular, to call his remarks *hearsay* (earlier in the
> thread) when they are in fact first hand user experience smacks of
> arrogance.
I would consider it mild if he were just expessing opinion - but deducing
advice to me and others is necessary is arrogant.
> For me, I would take Daniel's comments into account and be cautious as to
> this particular company until they convinced me otherwise - after all,
> there
> are plenty of other companies to choose from.
How would they convince you otherwise ?
>
> Alan
By all means Daniel is at liberty to criticise but when he advises caution
to "anyone reading this" he is over the top.
Interesteringly, no-one else has has yet come up with similar critical
reports of this company or the boat in question.
I would still like a visual transcipt of the post holiday correspondence -
beligerent - we can only take a one sided opinion at the moment.
Pete
www.thecanalshop.com
>
>
Dave Mayall
>In message <90a8k1db2v92pcmj1...@news.individual.net>,
>Dave Mayall <david....@ukonline.co.uk> writes
>>The point is that if the hirers;
>>
>>1) Gave no coherent account of the problem
>>2) Were generally abusive and aggressive
>>
>>It may have bee put down to the idiot factor.
>>
>Can people in the business of pleasing their customers have such an
>attitude and survive?
Yes!
The customer is not always right, and there comes a point where a
certain customer is a liability that a company can't afford.
--
Dave Mayall
Alan N Estherby
> The point is that if the hirers;
>
> 1) Gave no coherent account of the problem
> 2) Were generally abusive and aggressive
>
> It may have bee put down to the idiot factor.
>
> --
> Dave Mayall
Who says the hirers were either incoherent or abusive?
The OP's comments in this forum seem coherent and certainly not abusive,
although by the end of the saga some might argue they had every right to be.
Notwithstanding this, if a paying customer contacts a hire company to say
there is water entering the boat - a fact eventually confirmed when the boat
was returned - some sort of action should have been taken, preferably
sending someone to take a look.
Black Prince didn't, in this case. Black Mark to Black Prince.
Why should anyone then try to justify or excuse this by suggesting, without
any factual basis, that the OP may have been incoherent or abusive is quite
beyond me! Not to mention quite insulting to Daniel.
Alan
Dave Mayall
<a...@notinthisworld.com> wrote:
>
>> The point is that if the hirers;
>>
>> 1) Gave no coherent account of the problem
>> 2) Were generally abusive and aggressive
>>
>> It may have bee put down to the idiot factor.
>>
>> --
>> Dave Mayall
>
>Who says the hirers were either incoherent or abusive?
Note the words "if" and "may".
>Notwithstanding this, if a paying customer contacts a hire company to say
>there is water entering the boat - a fact eventually confirmed when the boat
>was returned - some sort of action should have been taken, preferably
>sending someone to take a look.
Do you honestly imagine that *any* hire company has the resources to
send somebody out to deal with every reported problem.
>Black Prince didn't, in this case. Black Mark to Black Prince.
They took the information given and diagnosed remotely. This is (and
should be) standard practice. The diagnosis appears to have been
wrong, but it doesn't invalidate the method of doing things.
>Why should anyone then try to justify or excuse this by suggesting, without
>any factual basis, that the OP may have been incoherent or abusive is quite
>beyond me!
We have been given one side of the story. It is entirely proper to
postulate what the other side might be.
It isn't an entirely unreasonable presumption, given my past
experience of the percentage of complaints which are justified and
which are not.
> Not to mention quite insulting to Daniel.
I don't presume to judge Daniel, merely to suggest another
possibility.
--
Dave Mayall
Brian Dominic
<david....@ukonline.co.uk> picked up their glass of wine, sat back
and said:
I regret to say that in some areas, the customer is right, even when
they are wrong. I worked for a short period at NTHell, and I was
expressly forbidden to say "No" to a customer!
Brian L Dominic
Web Sites:
Canals: http://www.brianscanalpages.co.uk
Friends of the Cromford Canal: http://www.cromfordcanal.org.uk
Mid-Derbyshire Light Railway: http://www.mdlr.co.uk
Newsgroup readers should note that the reply-to address is NOT read:
To email me, please send to brian(dot)dominic(at)tiscali(dot)co(dot)uk
Peter Stockdale
"Dave Mayall" <david....@ukonline.co.uk> wrote in message >>sending
>
>
> I don't presume to judge Daniel, merely to suggest another
> possibility.
>
>
> --
> Dave Mayall
Interestingly - Daniel seems to have fallen silent since his post !
Perhaps,his second post will be one of a praiseworthy nature. ( of me !!! )
Pete (in hope? )
www.thecanalshop.com
Peter Stockdale
"Malcolm" <mal...@mgnixon.org.uk> wrote in message
news:5kl8k1553jh8k3qeu...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 5 Oct 2005 23:25:10 +0100, "Peter Stockdale"
> <peter....@btopenworld.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>Interestingly - Daniel seems to have fallen silent since his post !
>
>
> Maybe - just maybe, he works for another hire company - what a wicked
> thought.
>
> My thoughts on the subject are that if there is water appearing in a
> boat - it needs looking at quickly - by a professional. OK it may be
> coming from the water tank. If it had been serious and sank - and the
> hire company had been advised - as we are told - then it's doubtful if
> the insurance company would pay up and of course they would be open to
> being sued by the hirer - with no insurance cover to pay damages.
>
> --
> Malcolm
I had an even more wicked thought - that it was V. in a new pseudonym .
No V. me old mate - even you would not sink so deep !
P
>
Martin Clark
>I had an even more wicked thought - that it was V. in a new pseudonym .
>No V. me old mate - even you would not sink so deep !
Why would V hire a boat when he allegedly has full use of T's boat?
--
Martin Clark
Internet Boaters' Database http://www.auluk.freeserve.co.uk/boats
Pennine Waterways Website http://www.penninewaterways.co.uk
Robin Smithett
here).
'Take as you find' might be a fairer way to go.
Robin Smithett
Dave Mayall
<nbru...@lineone.net> wrote:
>On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 20:46:37 +0100, Dave Mayall
><david....@ukonline.co.uk> picked up their glass of wine, sat back
>and said:
>>The customer is not always right, and there comes a point where a
>>certain customer is a liability that a company can't afford.
>
>I regret to say that in some areas, the customer is right, even when
>they are wrong. I worked for a short period at NTHell, and I was
>expressly forbidden to say "No" to a customer!
The point being that where a customer *is* wrong, the company may find
that they don't want them as a customer.
As for your former employer, they may never say no, but customer
service - don't make me laugh!
--
Dave Mayall
Peter Stockdale
> On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 23:50:27 +0100, Malcolm <mal...@mgnixon.org.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 5 Oct 2005 23:25:10 +0100, "Peter Stockdale"
>><peter....@btopenworld.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>
>>thought.
>
>
> It would, however, be a very effective tactic...
>
>
> --
> Dave Mayall
Yes - but only if we did not "suss" out the motive.
I would like to hear more of Robin's reported inside info.
Tim Leech
I don't see sending emails to the hire company as a method guaranteed
to get rapid results!
OK, there were apparently phone calls as well, but if it really had
become a 'terrible holiday' I would have thought it worth doing more
than just sending off an email midweek.
Cheers
Tim
Dutton Dry-Dock
Traditional & Modern canal craft repairs
Vintage diesel engine service
Ann
didn't get his money back when he chose to cancel ( no matter the reason)
and one who had a leak on the boat to which the boatyard did not respond?.
Sounds like a BP vendetta or is that being fanciful?
Is this the time when hire companies take most of their bookings? is this
coincidence?
Ann
NBeasilyconfused
Robin Smithett
There are always two sides to any story, and I've heard the other side.
Robin
Will Chapman
> I suppose I shouldn't really have said anything.
> There are always two sides to any story, and I've heard the other
> side.
stretch the imagination somewhat to understand why Black
Prince didn't send someone out to correct a leak that
they later confirmed did exist.
We had a leak on Quidditch last year that, if my son hadn't
been visiting the boat regularly, could well have lead to
the boat sinking.
--
Cheers.......
Will Chapman
nb Quidditch
> Robin
>
>>
>> Yes - but only if we did not "suss" out the motive.
>> I would like to hear more of Robin's reported inside info.
>>
>> Pete
--
Tim Leech
wrote:
>I am thoroughly confused! Are there two people complaining about BP? One who
>didn't get his money back when he chose to cancel ( no matter the reason)
>and one who had a leak on the boat to which the boatyard did not respond?.
Yes
>Is this the time when hire companies take most of their bookings? is this
>coincidence?
>
>Ann
>
>NBeasilyconfused
>
Maybe I've helped your confusion, with my choice of which posting to
'reply' to.
I was referring to the OP with the leak, who apparently emailed Black
Prince midweek. Not the route by which I would think hire bases expect
to be contacted about problems with the boat!
I don't see that the chap who cancelled from choice has much grounds
to complain.
Dave Mayall
news:43451a5a$0$22452$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
> Robin Smithett wrote:
>> I suppose I shouldn't really have said anything.
>> There are always two sides to any story, and I've heard the other
>> side.
> Obviously I haven't heard the other side but it does
> stretch the imagination somewhat to understand why Black
> Prince didn't send someone out to correct a leak that
> they later confirmed did exist.
Let's see if we can postulate....
How about a customer that had complained about anything and everything
already.
Perhaps this was a case of the boy who cried wolf.
Peter Stockdale
"Martin" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:bn9ak19qodv2qnlmp...@4ax.com...
> --
> Martin
I do not see how postulation can help, indeed it will inevitably lead to
confusion.
I still prefer to hear the "other side" to help draw conclusions as to
whether his complaint is justified.
Peter Stockdale
"Tim Leech" <dutto...@onetel.com> wrote in message
news:gi6ak1976lbqtkuq8...@4ax.com...
>
Stick with us Ann - we are trying to get the fuller story.
Brian
"Will Chapman" <nbquidd...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:43451a5a$0$22452$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
>> I suppose I shouldn't really have said anything.
>> There are always two sides to any story, and I've heard the other
>> side.
>
> We had a leak on Quidditch last year that, if my son hadn't
> been visiting the boat regularly, could well have lead to
> the boat sinking.
I never did know, where did the water come from Will
--
Brian Ancient Order of Sewer Ants
Peter Stockdale
> On Thu, 6 Oct 2005 14:55:14 +0100, "Peter Stockdale"
> <peter....@btopenworld.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>>>
>
> Me too, but I'm not interested in a lot of surmise about the posters
> motives.
> --
> Martin
At this stage - agreed.
Pete
Ann
"Peter Stockdale" <peter....@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:3qkp6eF...@individual.net...
The guy who wished to cancel for very good reasons , while I admire what he
has done and sympathise with him over the BP view, I don't think they or any
other hire company could have acted differently.
The one with the water leak however, raises a few questions in my mind. I
don't think the OP had posted on here before , which is not a problem, but I
would have expected him to stick around and chip in when some of us went off
on the wrong tack but he has been silent, as far as I can see.
Another question which enters my cynical mind. When did this happen? If it
was a wee while ago, why is it being raised now? He may have said so but I
can't recall this.
We have all met people who make mountains out of little things and will make
statement like "the boat is sinking" when perhaps a little water had been
noticed on the bathroom floor - unlike the hirers up here a few months ago
who though their engine had run out of fuel when it stopped as the water
(from not putting the bar on the weed hatch) was in fact over the engine.
IF this hirer had constantly complained about other things and the boat yard
had responded and found that mountains had been manufactured, I can see
their reluctance when they get an email to say the boat is sinking.
Just trying to see everyone's point of view and I have no axe to grind on
either side.
Ann
Ann
>>
> Maybe you should read exactly what he said before making comments? He
> said exactly when he had his holiday. See below.
>
Thanks, Martin, for refreshing my memory and I apologise for suggesting that
the event had perhaps taken place a while ago. It was in September.
If what he said is exactly what happened then I agree that BP were severely
lacking in the customer care department. However, as someone else said,
there are two sides to every story and it would be interesting to hear BPs
side of this one.
Ann
NBshouldn'tdeletenewsgroupmessagessoquicklyinfuture.
Peter Stockdale
>
>>>>
>
> Incidentally the name he used is that of a famous semi autistic person
> with amazing mental abilities. Being a cynic, I did try to check his
> authenticity.
> --
> Martin
What's he famous for - I have never heard the name before ?
The mystery deepens !
Pete
dan...@w1mny.co.uk
I'm sorry not to have replied sooner, but I've been busy for the past
few days and was only earlier today notified in an email by one of the
list members that there had been replies to my original post.
None of us on the party were aggressive or demanding. To give a better
idea, the party consisted of our friends - a couple in their thirties -
myself and my partner in our twenties, my mother who is 57, my friend's
mother who is 74 and a friend's friend. Some of us had never been on a
canalboat before, I have been once before when we went on a different
ring, in Cheshire, in 2003 with Black Prince and experienced no
problems at all. That's why we booked again with BP.
We went out on the Saturday and phoned on the Sunday and mentioned the
damp problem to staff at the base. Because of their attitude which was
'there's nothing wrong with our boat, you're doing something wrong', we
weren't very keen to phone again and say the wet was still around. We
waited until the Wednesday because by then we had noticed the problem
with the water gauge and could be certain that the boat had a leak. In
our email we explained all the reasons why we thought there was a leak.
No-one replied to the email, even though we included a telephone number
to contact us on.
In the email we sent after the holiday we explained the situation and
were told in reply that the problem must have occurred while we were
using the boat and therefore we mustn't have cared for the boat
properly. But there was damp and wet on the boat as soon as we got on
board as I mentioned in my original message. The boat had not been
checked properly before it was let out to us. For example, one of the
bathrooms had a light that didn't work, so some of us had to brush our
teeth and wash in the dark. We didn't mention that at the time because
it was a small detail, but it does show that the boat wasn't in full
working order when it was let out to us.
Someone said in one of the replies that it would be good to see the
correspondence we've had with Black Prince. If anyone is still
interested, I'd be happy to post it here.
Finally, yes I am Daniel Tammet - I have Asperger's which is a mild and
high-functioning form of autism. One of the reasons my mother came with
me on the holiday was to help me with my anxiety levels - I find change
and new situations challenging. The experience of going on a canalboat
before also made me think I would cope well and enjoy the experience.
The places we visited - Cadbury World and Worcester Cathedral for
example - were interesting and beautiful. But the shock of suddenly not
having any water to wash with, flush a toilet with, brush teeth with,
was very hard for me to cope with and I did have an anxiety attack and
became very upset. I didn't have any contact with BP directly myself,
as the boat was hired in my partner's name and it was he and one of our
friends who made the phone calls and wrote the emails. A holiday should
be a time to relax and not have to worry about things - unfortunately
the experience with Black Prince was anything but.
Best,
Daniel
Peter Stockdale
<dan...@w1mny.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1128615230.2...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hi everyone,
sic
>
Someone said in one of the replies that it would be good to see the
correspondence we've had with Black Prince. If anyone is still
interested, I'd be happy to post it here.
.
sic
> Best,
>
> Daniel
Still interested - I for one look forward to the posting offered.
Regards
Pete
www.thecanalshop.com
Will Chapman
>> Obviously I haven't heard the other side but it does
>> stretch the imagination somewhat to understand why Black
>> Prince didn't send someone out to correct a leak that
>> they later confirmed did exist.
>
> Let's see if we can postulate....
>
> How about a customer that had complained about anything and everything
> already.
>
post...
> Perhaps this was a case of the boy who cried wolf.
...and, in any case, a leak is a leak and not something that the
average boat owner would ignore...unless, to take your point
further, the extent of the leak was exagerarated (but then why
did BP bother to tell the hirers it had been repaired)?
Peter Stockdale
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,,1409903,00.html
> --
> Martin
Ta -interesting ! - at least a reply to my latest request should be within
his capabilities !!
Pete
Brian J Goggin
<nbquidd...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
>...and, in any case, a leak is a leak and not something that the
>average boat owner would ignore...unless, to take your point
>further, the extent of the leak was exagerarated (but then why
>did BP bother to tell the hirers it had been repaired)?
I gathered that the leak was in the domestic water system.
bjg
Will Chapman
> On Thu, 6 Oct 2005 15:04:14 +0100, "Brian" <Br...@notharnser.fs.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> "Will Chapman" <nbquidd...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
>> news:43451a5a$0$22452$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
>>> been visiting the boat regularly, could well have lead to
>>> the boat sinking.
>>
>> I never did know, where did the water come from Will
>
Strangely enough we think it came from the top of the
boat (see my other post).....
Will Chapman
> "Will Chapman" <nbquidd...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
> news:43451a5a$0$22452$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
>>
>> been visiting the boat regularly, could well have lead to
>> the boat sinking.
>
> I never did know, where did the water come from Will
The best we can surmise is:
Very heavy rain over several weeks coupled with a plugged
drain hole underneath the weed hatch cover (it is self draining
but the exit hole was plugged with a layer of dead leaves.).
As the water overflowed the lip under the hatch cover it
ran along the bottom edge and made its way along the top
of the swim to the bilge space below the bedroom (rear
cabin).
Robin Smithett
on both occasions they said it was very minor and insisted that no-one
needed to come out. On the Friday they apparently refused to let BP go to
them.
Robin
Robin Nicholson
>
>Picking up on another point in the original post: We recently stopped at
>the Viking base in Worcester and ended up mooring overnight there. They
>were a very nice and friendly bunch of people.
I did so too four years ago and was also made welcome-Maple's prop
fell off and we had excellent workshop assistance too to get things
sorted.
Robin
Brian Dominic
<david....@ukonline.co.uk> picked up their glass of wine, sat back
and said:
>On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 22:40:44 +0100, Brian Dominic
><nbru...@lineone.net> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 20:46:37 +0100, Dave Mayall
>><david....@ukonline.co.uk> picked up their glass of wine, sat back
>>and said:
>
>>>The customer is not always right, and there comes a point where a
>>>certain customer is a liability that a company can't afford.
>>
>>I regret to say that in some areas, the customer is right, even when
>>they are wrong. I worked for a short period at NTHell, and I was
>>expressly forbidden to say "No" to a customer!
>
>The point being that where a customer *is* wrong, the company may find
>that they don't want them as a customer.
They wanted the customers, all right, but (for example) somebody
couldn't order a remote control for another (absent) customer.........
>
>As for your former employer, they may never say no, but customer
>service - don't make me laugh!
Since I've left East Midlands Electricity, nearly 9 years ago, I've
been horrified by the rapidly declining standards of customer service,
even of my ex-employers, who were excellent at one time.
We've just set up a new online bank account and there was a problem.
It took a number of telephone calls (from a VERY assertive Susan) to
get it sorted: the worst thing was "we'll ring you back within 48
hours". Did they ever? They did not!
Brian L Dominic
Web Sites:
Canals: http://www.brianscanalpages.co.uk
Friends of the Cromford Canal: http://www.cromfordcanal.org.uk
Mid-Derbyshire Light Railway: http://www.mdlr.co.uk
Newsgroup readers should note that the reply-to address is NOT read:
To email me, please send to brian(dot)dominic(at)tiscali(dot)co(dot)uk
dan...@w1mny.co.uk
Black Prince come out to us. A member of our party has put all the
information and correspondence between us and BP online on his website.
It can be read at: http://www.spagweb.com/magicspanner/hol_complaint/
Daniel
Will Chapman
Daniel
A very interesting read which, to my mind at least, shows Black
Prince at fault. I am also of the opinion the the MD did not read
your correspondance with an open mind and, also, did not allow
for the possibilty that his staff were covering their own rear ends.
At the least, he needs a lesson in PR.
And to those cynics that didn't accept Daniel's original post at face
value I say "oh ye of little faith".
Personally, I think Black Prince should make a refund.
David Long
dan...@w1mny.co.uk writes
analogy with the slow puncture on the hire car. You'd been told to make
sure you used the bilge pump... inferring the equivalent of your
sticking a match in the valve of the tyre....
--
David Long
Sankey Canal Restoration Society http://www.scars.org.uk/
St. Mary's http://www.geocities.com/andrew_fishburn/stmary1.html
http://www.scars.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/webcam/
Phil R
<dan...@w1mny.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1128627954.9...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Interesting reading ;-)
A few comments without taking sides:
1. *Overnight the water pump kicks in regularly for 10 or 15 secs at a
time
when there is no water being used.* This should have rung alarm
bells
when reported to BP.
2. *We have now discovered that far from it being a small water leak
the
calorifyer had split, which John advised you on Saturday. This
can
happen for two reasons, being either a manufacturing fault, or
due to
the boat running out of water. We have sent it back to the
manufacturer
to await his report.* I fail to see how running out of water
can cause
a split calorifier.
3. *We now know that the floor will have to be replaced. The total
cost
of repairs is between £1,750 and £2,500.*
I assume that BP boats have 18mm exterior grade ply for the
floors.
This should resist a few days of dampness?
Cheers
Phil
Peter Headland
Having read your transcript, I have to say I sympathise with BP. If
this was ruining your holiday, why not phone BP and have them send an
engineer out? Your claim that you were afraid that you would be "fobbed
off" if you used the telephone is pretty lame. Do you seriously mean to
suggest that BP's initial response was unreasonable, given the
information provided? And yet somehow you took enough offense from
that, that instead of doing the blindingly obvious and phoning again,
you sent an e-mail to what is almost certainly an admin. department and
implied in that e-mail that no action or response was required.
Unless you feel you want to be compensated for injury to your delicate
feelings, and given that most of the inconvenience you suffered was the
direct result of your failing to request an engineer call-out, the meat
of your complaint appears to be that BP's staff didn't abase themselves
at your feet when your returned the boat (I am just guessing that they
were rather busy at that point, with other boats coming in, turn-rounds
to be done, etc.).
--
Peter Headland
Richard
Thank you writing a sensible, calm and reasoned reply. I would like to
hope that others in this thread may try and follow your example. I for
one have been saddened by what I have read here and on spagweb
Please don't let your experience with Black Prince or the nice Mr Parker
put you off you off boaters or canals.
--
Richard
Will Chapman
>> http://www.spagweb.com/magicspanner/hol_complaint/
>
> Having read your transcript, I have to say I sympathise with BP. If
> this was ruining your holiday, why not phone BP and have them send an
> engineer out?
Peter
I am astonished. Are we reading the same thread? Have you actually read
Daniel's first posting and the transcript. They did call, then followed it
up with
and email and then called again.
The very fact that their was eveidence to suggest that the water tank was
leaking should have rung alarm bells. What boat do you know that needs
to have the under-cabin bilge to be pumped out and the water tanks to
be filled on a daily basis and the water guage drops 2 tenths in a matter
of two hours?
There should have been alarm bells ringing all over the place...Black Prince
are lucky they had such observant hirers.
> Unless you feel you want to be compensated for injury to your delicate
> feelings, and given that most of the inconvenience you suffered was
> the direct result of your failing to request an engineer call-out,
> the meat of your complaint appears to be that BP's staff didn't abase
> themselves at your feet when your returned the boat (I am just
> guessing that they were rather busy at that point, with other boats
> coming in, turn-rounds to be done, etc.).
Can you honestly tell me that you have no connection with Black Prince?
The above paragraph is both excessively patronising and, given the
evidence, totally off base.
Dave Mayall
<nbquidd...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
>dan...@w1mny.co.uk wrote:
>> Robin (Smithett)'s understanding is incorrect, we did not refuse to
>> let Black Prince come out to us. A member of our party has put all the
>> information and correspondence between us and BP online on his
>> website. It can be read at:
>> http://www.spagweb.com/magicspanner/hol_complaint/
>>
>
>Daniel
>
>A very interesting read which, to my mind at least, shows Black
>Prince at fault.
Yes, very interesting, and I disagree with your view on it.
Firstly, consider the *INITIAL* report and response.
The customer reports damp in the back cabin. The hire company responds
by carrying out a remote diagnosis. The diagnosis (whilst wrong) is a
reasonable one to arrive at, and does not warrant somebody being sent
out.
Next consider the second report (by e-mail). This is explicit that the
hirer believes that this is something that the company should attend
to before the boat goes out again, rather than sending somebody out.
Next the third report. The hirer declined an offer to send somebody
out.
At no point in any of the reports did the hirer say to BP "This is a
big problem, your initial solution didn't work, and you need to send
somebody out to look at it.
BP did everything that the hirer asked of them during the hire. The
hirer failed to make BP aware of a serious problem.
I'm sure BP won't miss his custom, indeed if I were running another
hire fleet, that might be a recipient of his future custom now he
doesn't want to go with BP again, I'd make a note that we don't want
him as a customer.
--
Dave Mayall
Will Chapman
> dan...@w1mny.co.uk wrote:
>
> Thank you writing a sensible, calm and reasoned reply. I would like to
> hope that others in this thread may try and follow your example. I
> for one have been saddened by what I have read here and on spagweb
>
I agree, and would add that that I am amazed at what I believe is an
excessively cynical response from some to Daniel's posting.
> Please don't let your experience with Black Prince or the nice Mr
> Parker put you off you off boaters or canals.
Hear, hear.
Richard
No no no. Their email gave all the relevant facts and should have rung
an alarm bell. Reading the rest of the transcript it is hard to
sympathise with Black Prince. I thought Parker was particularly
obnoxious and the way his email contradicts his ops manager only
reinforced that view.
--
Richard
Dave Mayall
<nbquidd...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
>Peter Headland wrote:
>>> http://www.spagweb.com/magicspanner/hol_complaint/
>>
>> Having read your transcript, I have to say I sympathise with BP. If
>> this was ruining your holiday, why not phone BP and have them send an
>> engineer out?
>
>Peter
>
>I am astonished. Are we reading the same thread? Have you actually read
>Daniel's first posting and the transcript. They did call, then followed it
>up with
>and email and then called again.
The first call received an appropriate diagnostic attempt.
The e-mail requested no assistance, and suggested that no action was
necessary until the boat was returned.
The final call declined an offer of a visit.
The e-mail and final call were not suggestive of a major problem
>Can you honestly tell me that you have no connection with Black Prince?
I can tell you that I don't.
--
Dave Mayall
Dave Mayall
<nbquidd...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
>Richard wrote:
>> dan...@w1mny.co.uk wrote:
>>
>> Thank you writing a sensible, calm and reasoned reply. I would like to
>> hope that others in this thread may try and follow your example. I
>> for one have been saddened by what I have read here and on spagweb
>>
>
>I agree, and would add that that I am amazed at what I believe is an
>excessively cynical response from some to Daniel's posting.
I can only say that if hire companies have to put up with this, I'm
glad I don't run one.
--
Dave Mayall
Brian J Goggin
<david....@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:
>I can only say that if hire companies have to put up with this, I'm
>glad I don't run one.
I'm glad of that too.
bjg
Sue
snipped
> Can you honestly tell me that you have no connection with Black Prince?
> The above paragraph is both excessively patronising and, given the
> evidence, totally off base.
>
> --
> Cheers.......
>
>
> Will Chapman
> nb Quidditch
>
>
We have also hired in the past with another hire company and received a
similar level of service. The difference being that we received a phone call
at 8.30 am from Mr. Hoseason who wanted more details and said that he was
taking the matter seriously. I believe we got a small refund which went to
wrg funds.
--
Sue nb Nackered Navvy
Pete C
I'm suprised that BP don't have automatic bilge pumps and/or bilge
water alarms, especially if their flooring is suspceptible to
expensive damage in a short time <g>.
Their initial assumption (not diagnosis) was wrong, there should also
have been some followup or a request for contact if the problem
persisted.
After receiving the email they should have reached the correct
conclusion and send an engineer straight away whether the hirer wanted
one or not; it's not the hirer's responsibility to accurately judge
the seriousness of faults.
To get BP to diagnose and follow up the fault correctly would have
required teaching them how they should be doing their job IMHO, which
is not what a customer paying for a holiday should have to do.
Although the hirer could have contacted BP earlier after the first
call and been more persistant, the line BP have taken doesn't gain
them *anything* at all, they would have been better off offering a
full apology.
It seems that what BP are saying is that if anything goes wrong with
the boat and YOU the customer don't handle it correctly we won't
apologise or be held liable in any way.
cheers,
Pete.
Peter Stockdale
"Robin Smithett" <robin_smithett.co.uk> wrote in message
news:43455aae.0@entanet...
I have read as much of this stuff as seems digestible.
1). The customers actions are a good example of how not to ensure things
are sorted asap.
2). The providers response is over the top in allocation of blame.
3). An isolated case not typical of the industry in general nor this
company in particular.
4) I unreservedly reject the o.p. advice to be very cautious when going
with BP.
Molly Mockford
wrote in <cfuak1lfbem56ooan...@4ax.com>:
>On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 07:18:14 +0100, Dave Mayall
><david....@ukonline.co.uk> picked up their glass of wine, sat back
>and said:
>
>>On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 22:40:44 +0100, Brian Dominic
>><nbru...@lineone.net> wrote:
>>>I regret to say that in some areas, the customer is right, even when
>>>they are wrong. I worked for a short period at NTHell, and I was
>>>expressly forbidden to say "No" to a customer!
>>
>>The point being that where a customer *is* wrong, the company may find
>>that they don't want them as a customer.
>
>They wanted the customers, all right, but (for example) somebody
>couldn't order a remote control for another (absent) customer.........
As a total contrast, today I needed to set up an ADSL broadband
connection for our local RSL radio station. The cost of it is to be
sponsored, and the sponsors strongly urged that we should go with Zen
Internet, a firm of which I had no personal experience whatsoever.
I rang Zen, and to my astonishment they coped, totally unfazed, with a
situation where Person A (me) ordered ADSL on a phone line registered to
Person B at Address B (our Director-General), the phone line itself
actually being at Address C (a local community centre). And then I said
no, I can't pay by personal credit card in these circumstances, you have
to invoice us so that our sponsor can pay the bill - and they put the
invoice up on the web within three minutes.
Sure, I know this is thoroughly OT - but it shows that there are some
firms which can provide really good customer service, without having to
rely on a script and a tied-down computer system!
--
Molly Mockford
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.)
Molly Mockford
<W4adnduTN7v0Edje...@pipex.net>:
>A few comments without taking sides:
>
>1. *Overnight the water pump kicks in regularly for 10 or 15 secs at a
>time
> when there is no water being used.* This should have rung alarm
>bells
> when reported to BP.
I'm not sure about that, Phil. On various hire boats I've been on, from
various hirers, the water pump has kicked into action for 10 or 15
seconds three or four times during the night, for no apparent reason
(and certainly no leak), to the extent that we formed a habit of
switching the water pump off at night, and on again in the morning.
(Gentlemen who couldn't get through the night were expected to pee in
the cut. Ladies had no such difficulty, not having consumed so many
pints.)
Note: This post relates only to this specific point addressed. Although
it is clear that the OP's e-mail to Black Prince was low-key and didn't
request an engineer, I do think that BP should have diagnosed the
problem from the very full information therein contained; and the
subsequent aggressive/defensive e-mails are indefensible. "I've got a
friend who's a used-car dealer and he'll do you over..." :-)
I would very much like to hear BP's side of things, having now seen the
full account from the OP's point of view.
Molly Mockford
<peter....@btopenworld.com> wrote in <3qlm9oF...@individual.net>:
>I have read as much of this stuff as seems digestible.
I have read the correspondence posted to the web, which seemed very
clear.
> 1). The customers actions are a good example of how not to ensure things
>are sorted asap.
It is true that it seems that the customers did not press for an
engineer to attend. Nevertheless, I do think that, given the reported
symptoms, the company should have sent somebody out. They cannot expect
hirers to assess the degree of seriousness; if it is true (and it seems
very surprising) that there was over UKP1000 of damage caused to the
flooring by the leak, then BP should have been aware of this possibility
and taken action as soon as details of the problem were reported,
whether or not the hirers thought this was necessary. To threaten to
charge them for that damage is, IMHO, indefensible.
> 2). The providers response is over the top in allocation of blame.
Agreed 100%. In fact, I think it's shocking.
>3). An isolated case not typical of the industry in general nor this
>company in particular.
Agreed as relates to the industry; and it's been a very long time since
we've seen any serious complaint about Black Prince here. But this one,
in my opinion, is justified.
>4) I unreservedly reject the o.p. advice to be very cautious when going
>with BP.
*sucks teeth* It's very unlikely to happen again. But my opinion of BP
(which is not one of the various companies from whom I have hired) has
been severely lowered by seeing their very unpleasant e-mail responses.
pound...@blueyonder.co.uk
The posts appear to indicate that operating the bilge pump (normally
in the engine bilge area) actually also pumps out the bilge area under
the floor of the boat. This indicates that water can flow from the
boat bilge to the engine bilge (and obviously therefore from the
engine bilge to the under floor bilge)..
Why??? What is the justification for connecting these two?
I would have thought that most cruiser stern boats have a watertight
steel bulkhead between the two areas, mine certainly has.
Cruiser stern and Semi trads can suffer from rain and lock
side-spouts putting water into the engine bilge. Is it sensible to
allow this to get under the living space floor.?
Also
How running out of water can split a calorifier I do not know. A
missing or jammed PRV yes, maybee, but running low, cobblers.
Richard
Nb "Pound Eater" Parkend G+S
Tim Leech
<nospam...@mollymockford.me.uk> wrote:
>At 21:46:25 on Thu, 6 Oct 2005, Phil R <ditchc...@water.com> wrote in
><W4adnduTN7v0Edje...@pipex.net>:
>
>>A few comments without taking sides:
>>
>>1. *Overnight the water pump kicks in regularly for 10 or 15 secs at a
>>time
>> when there is no water being used.* This should have rung alarm
>>bells
>> when reported to BP.
>
>I'm not sure about that, Phil. On various hire boats I've been on, from
>various hirers, the water pump has kicked into action for 10 or 15
>seconds three or four times during the night, for no apparent reason
>(and certainly no leak), to the extent that we formed a habit of
>switching the water pump off at night, and on again in the morning.
>(Gentlemen who couldn't get through the night were expected to pee in
>the cut. Ladies had no such difficulty, not having consumed so many
>pints.)
>
The length of time the pump cuts in for is actually irrelevant to the
size of any leakage, it's mainly a function of accumulator size etc.
The frequency of cutting in, combined with length of cycling, would
give an indication as to whether any leak was serious.
Cheers
Tim
Dutton Dry-Dock
Traditional & Modern canal craft repairs
Vintage diesel engine service
Spagley
Hi, Quick introduction first... I am another member of the 'Holly' crew
and have subbed as Daniel said there was an interesting ongoing
discussion.
The engine bay had small triangular holes in the lower corners of the
bulkhead (approx 30mm x 30mm?) and when pumping the bilge, clear water
could be seen entering from the front section. Exactly how that
connected further forward I could not say.
Paul Burke
>
> I can only say that if hire companies have to put up with this, I'm
> glad I don't run one.
>
Put up with what? People complaining about problems on their boats?
You're right, the sods should be grateful that they let them use the
boats at all.
Own goal by Black Prince, it seems.
Paul Burke
Dave Mayall
wrote:
>Dave Mayall wrote:
>>
>> I can only say that if hire companies have to put up with this, I'm
>> glad I don't run one.
>>
>
>Put up with what? People complaining about problems on their boats?
No.
People who repeatedly tell them that they don't want an engineer to
come out, then complain that one wasn't sent.
--
Dave Mayall
Paul Burke
> *sucks teeth* It's very unlikely to happen again. But my opinion of BP
> (which is not one of the various companies from whom I have hired) has
> been severely lowered by seeing their very unpleasant e-mail responses.
They are totally off the wall, an attempt to intimidate the customer.
Black Prince hired out a substandard boat; they had not checked it
properly, so were defaulting on what any reasonable customer should
expect from the start.
To then try to blame the customer for the damage to the boat is simply
outrageous. Having ascertained that it was due to a leaking calorifier,
they then tried to insinuate that this was somehow the customer's fault,
even inventing a new cause of leaks to justify themselves.
Parker ought to be in the cabinet, he has all the necessary skills. I'm
glad I don't hire any more, and will certainly tell this story to any
friends thinking of hiring.
And Mayall has managed to come over as a mere controversialist yet again.
Paul Burke
David Long
<nospam...@mollymockford.me.uk> writes
>
>As a total contrast, today I needed to set up an ADSL broadband
>connection for our local RSL radio station. The cost of it is to be
>sponsored, and the sponsors strongly urged that we should go with Zen
>Internet, a firm of which I had no personal experience whatsoever.
>
>I rang Zen, and to my astonishment they coped, totally unfazed, with a
>situation where Person A (me) ordered ADSL on a phone line registered
>to Person B at Address B (our Director-General), the phone line itself
>actually being at Address C (a local community centre). And then I
>said no, I can't pay by personal credit card in these circumstances,
>you have to invoice us so that our sponsor can pay the bill - and they
>put the invoice up on the web within three minutes.
>
>Sure, I know this is thoroughly OT - but it shows that there are some
>firms which can provide really good customer service, without having to
>rely on a script and a tied-down computer system!
Not "thoroughly OT", Molly - Zen's offices are beside the Rochdale...
and my son works for them.... ;-)
--
David Long
Sankey Canal Restoration Society http://www.scars.org.uk/
St. Mary's http://www.geocities.com/andrew_fishburn/stmary1.html
http://www.scars.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/webcam/
David Long
Dave Mayall <david....@ukonline.co.uk> writes
Spagley
company chooses to deal with it that tells you a lot about them.
As detailed to Mr Parker our complaint was not specifically with the
boat's problem, but the level of customer service we received.
Sadly, it does highlight that you probably have to demand good service
instead of expecting that an 'award winning' professional company will
offer it.
In my opinon the holiday was not 'ruined' by spending time refilling
the tank, but the nature of the correspondance following the incident
does mean that elements of the holiday experience don't exactly shine !
David Long
Dave Mayall <david....@ukonline.co.uk> writes
>On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 10:19:34 +0200, Martin <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 6 Oct 2005 21:42:15 +0100, "Will Chapman"
>><nbquidd...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
>>
>>>dan...@w1mny.co.uk wrote:
>>>> Robin (Smithett)'s understanding is incorrect, we did not refuse to
>>>> let Black Prince come out to us. A member of our party has put all the
>>>> information and correspondence between us and BP online on his
>>>> website. It can be read at:
>>>> http://www.spagweb.com/magicspanner/hol_complaint/
>>>>
>>>
>>>Daniel
>>>
>>>Prince at fault. I am also of the opinion the the MD did not read
>>>your correspondance with an open mind and, also, did not allow
>>>for the possibilty that his staff were covering their own rear ends.
>>>At the least, he needs a lesson in PR.
>>>
>>>And to those cynics that didn't accept Daniel's original post at face
>>>value I say "oh ye of little faith".
>>>
>>>Personally, I think Black Prince should make a refund.
>>
>>I found the whole thing credible, because they didn't ask for refund.
>
>"The £1162 we paid for the boat is not a trivial sum, especially
>considering several members of our party are on low incomes or a
>pension.
>
>We hope that the situation has only been mishandled by staff at the
>base and is not symptomatic of a more general lack of customer care by
>the Black Prince company. We look forward to hearing your resolution
>to our dissatisfaction."
>
>If that isn't a request for some money back, I don't know what it is.
>
>
Honi soit, etc.. I didn't read that first time as a request for a
refund, nor do I now. The situation should result in an apology at
least, not expressions of blame for the cost of a new floor. A refund
would be a gesture of goodwill.
Dave Mayall
wrote:
>Molly Mockford wrote:
>
>> *sucks teeth* It's very unlikely to happen again. But my opinion of BP
>> (which is not one of the various companies from whom I have hired) has
>> been severely lowered by seeing their very unpleasant e-mail responses.
>
>They are totally off the wall, an attempt to intimidate the customer.
>Black Prince hired out a substandard boat; they had not checked it
>properly, so were defaulting on what any reasonable customer should
>expect from the start.
Do you believe it is reasonably possible for the company to perform
the level of checks which would be required to discover
(extraordinarily rare) faults such as this at each turn-round?
--
Dave Mayall
Dave Mayall
>Honi soit, etc.. I didn't read that first time as a request for a
>refund, nor do I now.
It is, however *just* the sort of phraseology that "how to complain"
books recommend using when fishing for a refund.
--
Dave Mayall