Across the Irish sea!!!
Roger Murray
nice one with the right curves and proportions compared with some)
decided that they would like to take it across to Ireland to cruise
the canals and rivers for a year. Off course this would mean a
crossing of the dreaded Irish sea.
With the couple being new to the canals and certainly anything to do
with a sea crossing, a friend Stuart Wood and myself offered to
accompany them on the passage. However, this would only be after a
good examination of the boat and a few trials in a seaway.
As the boat was in the Liverpool Marina, the Mersey Estuary would
offer the ideal testing ground with its fast running tides and a bit
of a lop. Up at the crack o dawn yesterday morning it was a drive to
the fair city Liverpool for a locking out into the Mersey at 7am. This
was after a couple of strong coffees.
The boat met the Mersey swell with aplomb even though her owners
seemed a little concerned about the their new home actually moving
about under their feet. The poor dog freaked. Apart from going over
her general seaworthiness, the first thing we needed to work out was
how fast she would go at moderate cruising speed. We were hoping on
about eight knots to make Dublin in a daylight passage. After a couple
of measured mile runs, one punching the tide and one running with it,
the best we could make over the ground was about six knots,and that
was at full revs, at a moderate cruising speed about five. Not good!
Especially if punching a tide and headwinds. After all our seamanlike
runs and calculations to determine her speed, like the old Queen Mary
doing the measured mile off the Isle of Aran, the owners wife Kathy
just produced her Blackberry from her pocket with its built in GPS and
casually declared 'We are averaging five and a half knots.'
Off New Brighton where there was a bit of a swell, the Isle of Man
ferry passed leaving quite a heavy wake causing a some violent
rocking. This is where the differences between a canal boat built
primarily for domestic living and sea boat become apparent. There came
an alarming crashing and banging from below as the couple hung on with
looks of impending doom and the dog started yowling. Every draw and
cupboard door had been flung open. Crockery and things were was thrown
across the cabin floor with the whole of the cabin looking trashed.
Doors and fittings swung back and forth and with the lack of hand
holds it was difficult to keep a footing, and this was just with a
ferry passing, never mind being caught out in a gale out at sea.
I think at this stage the couple were rapidly having second thoughts
about any sea crossing as we began to list the things which would have
to be done to make the vessel suitable for even a moderate sea
passage. It would have been possibly cheaper to have put it on a low
loader.
Lovely people, a great day on the Mersey and I am glad they have had
second thoughts.
Roger
NB OXO
http://www.rogermurray.co.uk
Brian J Goggin
<roger....@virgin.net> wrote:
>I think at this stage the couple were rapidly having second thoughts
>about any sea crossing as we began to list the things which would have
>to be done to make the vessel suitable for even a moderate sea
>passage. It would have been possibly cheaper to have put it on a low
>loader.
I think the couple you mean may be ones who have raised the same
question on the DBA mailing list, in which case I'm very glad to hear
they're having second thoughts. I mean, I'm all in favour of their
coming to Ireland, but by truck rather than by water.
bjg
Roger Murray
wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Apr 2011 01:34:13 -0700 (PDT), Roger Murray
>
Yep, could easily be. Great couple and a very nice boat. A bad sea
crossing could put them off boating for ever.
Tony Haynes
As some here know, I have been considering crossing the Irish Sea in
Dreamcatcher. Even looking for conditions of less than three foot
swell and wind waves combined and ideal weather, the currents and
tides, and ferry washes would have to be taken into account.
I wasn't going to do it alone, and the offered escort by an old RN
minesweeper was appreciated, but in the end turned down. Just as well.
The vessel caught fire off Pembroke, somewhere.
My own plan was to cross to Douglas, Isle of Man from Glasson in one
hop, then cross to the Irish coast and take shelter wherever I could
on the second day. Then, it would be working my way down the coast to
Dublin as and when I could.
I watched the Irish Sea conditions for the whole of 2009 on some
excellent websites. There were only six days in the whole season that
woud have been suitable, and they were not consecutive.
I also recognise that I am no longer fit enough for such an adventure.
I don't see much point in shipping an oldish narrowboat to Ireland by
road ferry, so the loose plan now is to sell D/C here and buy
something else over there.... one day.
Tone
Roger Murray
Just as an aside to this thread.
The thought of making an estuary or sea passage with a canal boat is
always alluring, as adventure is never far below the surface with most
of us, especially if we have a boat and its all out there for the
taking.
Yesterday when out on the Mersey, and although only on neap tides it
was running swiftly on the ebb towards the open sea with the buoys
leaning at a steep angle. I asked the simple question. 'What do we do
if the engine fails?' There was a silence. Nobody had really thought
about the engine failing. A real possibility! Something round the
prop or dirty fuel churned up in the tanks with the boat having
movement for the first time.
Did they have an anchor? Well yes, but it was buried under some gear
down in a locker up forward. Was it attached to a rope or a chain?
No!
So if the engine failed we would be helplessly washed out into the
Irish sea, possibly on to the Great Burbo Bank! As how else would we
be able to stop?
On asking these questions I realised that both myself and Stuart were
really at fault for taking the boat out onto the tidal Mersey without
first of all checking on the anchor.
I have brought this up because I am an anchor freak when it comes to
sea going boats. The anchor is the most under estimated yet most vital
piece of kit on a vessel. As important as the brakes and hand brake on
a car. The only thing which could have stopped that boat from being
flushed out to sea yesterday if there had been engine failure would
have been the anchor.
Needless to say, we soon located and dug it out attaching a long stout
rope.
So love your anchor!
Roger Murray
The Glasson option for canal boats to Ireland is often discussed Tone,
but the Irish sea is one of the worst seas in the Northern hemisphere
next to the North sea. Even with good forecasts it can turn nasty very
quickly throwing up a short steep sea.
The Glasson Dock entry into the Irish sea is especially bad as you can
only lock out at high tide and you have to cross Morecambe Bay. From
the Abbey lighthouse you are following a constantly moving and
sparsely buoyed channel until you get into Lune Deeps off Fleetwood.
With uncovering sandbanks and rushing tides, it can be a deadly area,
especially for a narrowboat!
Think you've made the right decision. Don't want to lose you yet, as
this newsgroup would suffer a boring demise.
Roger
NB OXO
http:\\www.rogermurray.co.uk
Brian J Goggin
<irishcan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>I also recognise that I am no longer fit enough for such an adventure.
>I don't see much point in shipping an oldish narrowboat to Ireland by
>road ferry, so the loose plan now is to sell D/C here and buy
>something else over there.... one day.
I think your idea is good, but I also think that prices of old
narrowboats in Ireland are ridiculously high.
http://www.apolloduck.ie/listings.phtml?cid=140
bjg
Tony Haynes
wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Apr 2011 03:45:29 -0700 (PDT), Tony Haynes
>
> >I also recognise that I am no longer fit enough for such an adventure.
> >I don't see much point in shipping an oldish narrowboat to Ireland by
> >road ferry, so the loose plan now is to sell D/C here and buy
> >something else over there.... one day.
>
> I think your idea is good, but I also think that prices of old
> narrowboats in Ireland are ridiculously high.
>
> http://www.apolloduck.ie/listings.phtml?cid=140
>
> bjg
Actually Brian, are they selling at those sorta prices?
If so, that might make it worth while shipping D/C across by lorry,
using her there for a couple of years then selling her there. I would
be more in pocket. The difference in pricing would easily cover
transportation costs and running costs for a couple of years..
Tone
Paul E. Bennett
[$X]
> I have brought this up because I am an anchor freak when it comes to
> sea going boats. The anchor is the most under estimated yet most vital
> piece of kit on a vessel. As important as the brakes and hand brake on
> a car. The only thing which could have stopped that boat from being
> flushed out to sea yesterday if there had been engine failure would
> have been the anchor.
>
> Needless to say, we soon located and dug it out attaching a long stout
> rope.
>
> So love your anchor!
I would go so far as to say you should have more than one anchor at hand.
This is just in case you have to lose one of them (deliberately). I think
most sea goers would have at least two main anchors, a sea anchor (drogue)
and even a couple of smaller auxiliary anchors.
--
********************************************************************
Paul E. Bennett...............<email://Paul_E....@topmail.co.uk>
Forth based HIDECS Consultancy
Mob: +44 (0)7811-639972
Tel: +44 (0)1235-510979
Going Forth Safely ..... EBA. www.electric-boat-association.org.uk..
********************************************************************
Brian J Goggin
<irishcan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Actually Brian, are they selling at those sorta prices?
I dunno .... What was happening was that (according to that most
reliable of sources, towpath gossip) folk were importing clapped-out
old NBs that were likely to fail the BSS, or to need expensive
replating, then tarting them up a bit for sale to Irish liveaboards.
The purchasers, knowing no better, and finding the boats still cheaper
than Celtic Tiger-price houses, snapped them up.
I gather few boats are being sold on the Shannon, but I'm not certain
what the market for old NBs is like. Some of the barges on Apollo Duck
have been for sale for many months, but I haven't been following the
narrowboat prices. Here's another seller:
http://lowtownmarine.ie/vita_marine_ltd_6.html
bjg
Martin Clark, Pennine Waterways
> On Wed, 27 Apr 2011 07:41:20 -0700 (PDT), Tony Haynes
> <irishcan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Actually Brian, are they selling at those sorta prices?
>
> I dunno .... What was happening was that (according to that most
> reliable of sources, towpath gossip) folk were importing clapped-out
> old NBs that were likely to fail the BSS, or to need expensive
> replating, then tarting them up a bit for sale to Irish liveaboards.
> The purchasers, knowing no better, and finding the boats still cheaper
> than Celtic Tiger-price houses, snapped them up.
Aren't there a lot of fit-them-out-yourself new house shells being sold
off cheaply in Ireland now, or are they going to knock them all down again?
--
Martin Clark [Please email me through website, not by hitting Reply!]
Pennine Waterways Website http://www.penninewaterways.co.uk
Brian J Goggin
<re...@your.peril> wrote:
>Aren't there a lot of fit-them-out-yourself new house shells being sold
>off cheaply in Ireland now, or are they going to knock them all down again?
There are far too many houses (some complete, others not) and sites,
in many areas, notably along the upper reaches of the Shannon. There
has been no single decision on what is to happen to them; I imagine
quite a few will be left to fall down, some might be demolished and
some might be finished. It might be possible to buy a shell cheaply in
some areas, but I'd get it checked first! In other areas, though,
notably Dublin, there is a shortage of cheap houses, so that might
keep up the price of old narrowboats on the canals near Dublin.
There was a big trading station being constructed near here --- the
sort of place where you bring in your wampum and the traders give you
beads and mirrors --- with seven tower cranes. Construction stopped,
and they have been acting as weather vanes for some time. As of
yesterday, six of the cranes had been taken away and the concrete and
metal structure will, I imagine, never be finished. The fencing around
it has been blown or knocked down, and it may furnish the local youth
with a gathering place. Good idea, I think: there are no houses
nearby, so they can be as noisy as they llike.
bjg