Black Prince's new weed traps - any hirers care to comment
John Lloyd
helpful. The boat (GLENYS) was built after the multiple-sinkings that Black
Prince suffered - all experienced hirers, which is interesting - and
incorporates a bulkhead between the weed trap and the engine, so that
flooding via in insecure weed trap cannot sink the boat. We found it an
absolute nightmare to get a hand down to the propellor - a case of the
illogical solution to the unfortunate problem. This makes me ask if any of
you have found the new design a problem.
JL
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Sarah Levick
news:3c8de...@news5.uncensored-news.com...
> We hired from Stoke on Trent and can confirm that the staff there were most
> helpful. The boat (GLENYS) was built after the multiple-sinkings that Black
> Prince suffered - all experienced hirers, which is interesting - and
> incorporates a bulkhead between the weed trap and the engine, so that
> flooding via in insecure weed trap cannot sink the boat. We found it an
> absolute nightmare to get a hand down to the propellor - a case of the
> illogical solution to the unfortunate problem. This makes me ask if any of
> you have found the new design a problem.
>
> JL
>
> We are currently specifying our new boat and have just had the
weed hatch conversation with Eddie Baldwin at Midland Canal Centre.
For some unknown reason, I have an acute paranoia about "loose"
weedhatches and am haunted by the spectre of the canal entering
my boat when it has no business to. So we too asked the question
about having the new style of weedhatch - but Eddie vetoed it for just
the reason you have said - that it is an absolute pain in the ass to
access. He took one look at the length of our average stature arms and
declared it a no-no. He then went on to reassure us, that if all the
proper
precautions are taken, there should be absolutely no problem with the
conventional quick release weedhatch. When I told him that many years
ago
I had seen a Stenson hire boat sunk in the middle of the T&M (and learnt
from the attending firemen that it was a weedhatch related problem),
Eddie told me that that was because the muppets in charge had lifted the
weedhatch and having cleared the tangle, just thought they'd give the
engine a run with the lid off. So I'm a bit more reassured now. However
I'm surprised to hear about sinkings with experienced hirers - anyone
know
the reputed cause just so that I can rekindle my paranoia!;-)
Regards
Sarah and Andy
was to be nb Bram and now to be nb Arcadia No 1
as we can't make up our minds
>
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John Baldwin
Here is a thought, for what it may be worth, about the weed hatch
matter.
I'm not sure if we are talking about exactly the same thing. Some
years ago one of the hire boat companies at Braunston used to have
boats with a bulkhead separating the area around the weed hatch from
the rest of the boat. I can't be sure but knowing the fleet it may
well have been on a trad' boat and I have no knowlwedge as to how
effective it all was.
Now when it came to having our hull built I was concerned about
access to the weed hatch from under the rear deck, grovelling under
the step in that dark void doesn't make for easy clearing of the prop
anyhow. So we decided on a lift up panel in the back deck. Now, I
hear you all ask where does the soggy mess hauled out from said weed
hatch end up?
Well,usually it sits on the top of the swim plates dripping into the
bilges! In our case that would have been in the under deck area of
the boatmans cabin :-( The answer, a bulkhead separating it all from
the living area.
What we in effect have is a large locker, big enough for me to get
into to paint it, under the back deck with the weed hatch a foot or so
from the bulkhead. I can reach the prop as easily as on any boat we
have used, but I must warn you the whole issue has yet to be tested
in earnest as at present we have still to complete the fittting out.
Regards
John & Kathy
--
Regards --- John and Kathy
Fulbourn, Cambs
Neil Arlidge
news:3c8e11fd...@nntp-serv.cam.ac.uk...
John said of his weedhatch locker..............
> ................What we in effect have is a large locker, big enough for
me to get
> into to paint it, under the back deck with the weed hatch a foot or so
> from the bulkhead. I can reach the prop as easily as on any boat we
> have used, but I must warn you the whole issue has yet to be tested
Sorry I am vetoing this being tested in Earnest!
(I have been known to go a long for a bit with the weed hatch out!
I find the water only flys over the side of the box if you suddenly alter
engine revs.)
It is indeed fortunate that R&D do as standard a fairly high, above the
water level weed box, as this made our Dudley Tunnel overballasting exploits
possible.
--
Neil Arlidge, nb Earnest - Commode D'Or © TNC on Tour.
Follow the travels of Neil and the TNC in hire-boats, Beatty and Earnest at
http://www.tuesdaynightclub.co.uk - Waterways World Website of the month Feb
2002.
See nb Earnest being built at http://www.nbearnest.co.uk
See the newsgroups photo call at
http://www.tuesdaynightclub.co.uk/Photocall.html
Paul Jerome
most
> helpful. The boat (GLENYS) was built after the multiple-sinkings that
Black
> Prince suffered - all experienced hirers, which is interesting - and
> incorporates a bulkhead between the weed trap and the engine, so that
> flooding via in insecure weed trap cannot sink the boat. We found it an
> absolute nightmare to get a hand down to the propellor - a case of the
> illogical solution to the unfortunate problem. This makes me ask if any of
> you have found the new design a problem.
>
> JL
>
>
modification. Lets treat all our hirers as totally incompetent.
We had an amusing incident (in hindsight) with one of their other
modifications.
We were sitting having supper in BP NP Mordred (afterwards christened More
Dread) when we noticed the water pump going continually. Walking back
through the boat to check for taps, I also noticed the automatic bilge pump
was running. I investigated the engine compartment to discover that one of
the engine hoses had blown. Black Prince had plumbed in an automatic top up
system, to prevent brainless hirers from having to check the water every
day. This was now pumping the domestic water tank into the bilge via the
blown hose. The automatic bilge pump was then dumping it in the cut.
We, of course, were miles from civilisation on the Llangollen, so we bow
hauled Mordred some where near civilisation, so that I could walk to a
house, and phone for an engineer.
We saw a lot of the BP engineers that week!
Paul Jerome
Vic and June
>system, to prevent brainless hirers from having to check the water every
>day. This was now pumping the domestic water tank into the bilge via the
>blown hose. The automatic bilge pump was then dumping it in the cut.
Having seen the problems and costs of running an engine without water I think
it is a good design.As to the wed hatch why dont they couple a horn to a float
switch??? saving the multiple sinkings and engine blow ups witnessed above
Skipton.
Clogdancer on a fat boat. Abandoned the north to explore the other half before
it sinks.
Neil Arlidge
"Vic and June" <vhyd...@aol.com-no-spam> wrote in message
news:20020312152527...@mb-fk.aol.com...
> >Prince had plumbed in an automatic top up
> >system, to prevent brainless hirers from having to check the water every
> >day. This was now pumping the domestic water tank into the bilge via the
> >blown hose. The automatic bilge pump was then dumping it in the cut.
>
> Having seen the problems and costs of running an engine without water I
think
> it is a good design.As to the wed hatch why dont they couple a horn to a
float
> switch??? saving the multiple sinkings and engine blow ups witnessed above
> Skipton.
AH!.........We thought that John Chapman in NB Frogmoore II had already
thought of that.......but it was unintentional (floating earth on that
circuit)
Whenever the auto bilge pump came on there was a wah-wah horn effect!
brian
news:dc84275b025a1412d6c...@mygate.mailgate.org...
I wonder how Steve Hudson boat owners get on, his come right up to deck
level
--
--
Brian from sunny Suffolk by the river Hundred
The East Anglian Narrowboat Moving Co.
Neil Arlidge
news:8j4t8u45001kevdbi...@4ax.com...
> Malcolm
> nb Duplin
> m...@nb-duplin.org.uk
> Updated ( 1st March )Friends of President web site
http://www.nb-president.org.uk
I like the picture of a proper rivet!
Phil Rushton
> <brian...@harnser.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> >I wonder how Steve Hudson boat owners get on, his come right up to deck
> >level
> >
I thought a weedhatch wasn't an available option if you are having
traditional rivets :-)
Cheers
Phil
Neil Arlidge
"Phil Rushton" <Phil-...@macccanal.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:a6m6ji$b07$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
As in the Josher Pack contains no weed hatch?..........Maybe to make up for
this subtraction, SMH chucks in a gold plated boat hook, with a retractable
knife in the end?
C. Marin Faure
vhyd...@aol.com-no-spam (Vic and June) wrote:
> >Prince had plumbed in an automatic top up
> >system, to prevent brainless hirers from having to check the water every
> >day. This was now pumping the domestic water tank into the bilge via the
> >blown hose. The automatic bilge pump was then dumping it in the cut.
>
> Having seen the problems and costs of running an engine without water I think
> it is a good design.
Another benefit to running an air-cooled Lister.....:-)
C. Marin Faure
Seattle, Washington
David Bainbridge
> I wonder how Steve Hudson boat owners get on, his come right up to deck
> level
>
Well you need long arms ... I find that I have to lay flat with my legs
through the rear doors and then jam the full length of my arm into the
hole. It can be quite excruciating - but some would happily pay for such
pain :-). For people with shorter arms I don't know how they get along.
Perhaps a course on a rack, or hanging weights off your arms might help.
Of course, if you can already scratch under your kneecaps without
bending over then you already meet the requirements of a SH weedhatch.
There are a number of other problems associated with the hatch: the 4
allen bolts that hold the hatch in place are not captive, so you need to
be careful when removing them. The hatch is actually more like a plug,
and once you have lifted it out you then have to make sure that you put
it somewhere on the rear deck where it will not fall (or be pushed) into
the canal while you are trying to shove parts of your anatomy down the
hole. You are also unlikely to forget to replace the hatch since it
occupies half the available deck space.
Dave
1/12 NB Aylesbury (probably the bit that includes the pumpout tank)
js...@priest.com
to the weed hatch cover so that the engine cannot be turned over with the
weed hatch open?
John
n.b Twelfth Night (part owners)
www.sleejg.fsnet.co.uk
--
"Vic and June" <vhyd...@aol.com-no-spam> wrote in message
news:20020312152527...@mb-fk.aol.com...
David Hearmon
>>>I wonder how Steve Hudson boat owners get on, his come right up to
>>>deck level
It is a bit of a long stretch down to the prop. I find that by
positioning my shoulder down the hole I can reach down as far as the
prop shaft.
With this type of 'weed hatch' there is absolutely no prospect of
flooding the boat!
> > they get tired arms by the look of it <g>
Only by lifting pints.
> I thought a weedhatch wasn't an available option if you are having
> traditional rivets :-)
SMH doesn't fit traditional rivets, only the stick on type. Therefore a
weed hatch is fitted as standard.
>As in the Josher Pack contains no weed hatch?..........Maybe to make up
for
>this subtraction, SMH chucks in a gold plated boat hook, with a
retractable
>knife in the end?
Gold plated mushrooms and portholes can be supplied. I have never heard
of a gold plated boat hook but I have no doubt that with the right
amount of folding stuff changing hands such an object could be supplied.
Regards,
Dave
John Baldwin
In fact it will have a sirius test later ;-))
On Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:35:23 -0000, "Neil Arlidge"
<neila...@tuesdaynightclub.co.uk> wrote:
>"John Baldwin" <al...@cam.ac.uk> wrote in message
>news:3c8e11fd...@nntp-serv.cam.ac.uk...
>John said of his weedhatch locker..............
>> ................What we in effect have is a large locker, big enough for
>me to get
>> into to paint it, under the back deck with the weed hatch a foot or so
>> from the bulkhead. I can reach the prop as easily as on any boat we
>> have used, but I must warn you the whole issue has yet to be tested
>> in earnest as at present we have still to complete the fitting out.
>
>Sorry I am vetoing this being tested in Earnest!
>
John & Kathy
presently fitting nb SIRIUS
Graham Keens
John Lloyd wrote:
> This makes me ask if any of you have found the new design a problem.
I saw the new design and was not impressed. It would take a boat hook to remove stuff
from around the prop as it's a long way down. I prefer the 'sinkable' design!
Graham Keens
Paul Jerome wrote:- Black Prince had plumbed in an automatic top up
> system, to prevent brainless hirers from having to check the water every
> day.
Yes, I found Jannock's the other day, I think it's a brilliant idea. I'm not
sure how yours kept pumping unless the radiator cap had been modified/broken.
It's designed to only top up the system when the water's cooling.
C. Marin Faure
> Surely it's not beyond the wit of man to link an electronic isolation switch
> to the weed hatch cover so that the engine cannot be turned over with the
> weed hatch open?
Installing an interlock switch of some sort would certainly work, but when
you consider the environment in which the weed hatch lives, I'm not sure
it would work for long. I had to get some old plastic, a piece of blue
rope, and a (ruined) leather jacket off the prop of Middlewich Narroboats'
WILLOW a couple of years ago outside Blackburn on the Leeds & Liverpool.
The accumulated dirt and other crud back around the weed hatch, to say
nothing of clanking the heavy hatch itself around, could make pretty short
work of an electrical switch system and wires mounted to prevent the
engine starting if the hatch was not in place. Plus, it's not enough to
have the hatch in position, it needs to be tightened down on its rubber
gasket to prevent water from being thrown into the boat. I'm not sure how
you'd ensure that with an electrical contact switch.
I personally prefer the "normal" weed hatch, the kind where you can reach
the prop and shaft with your hand. True, a hatch box that comes all the
way up to the aft deck would eliminate the possibility of the boat being
filled with water if the hatch cover was not replaced and dogged down.
But if you can't get hold of the rope, plastic sheeting, or whatever is
around the prop and work it loose with your hands or cut it with a knife,
it can be a tough and frustrating job to get rid of the stuff by remote
control with a boathook.
One would think that an abundance of emphasis during the boat checkout
with hirers about the necessity of replacing and dogging down the
weedhatch, with perhaps some sort of obvious signage near the hatch that
would be almost impossible to overlook would do the trick. But I admit
it's fairly amazing how many people can be given all sorts of instruction
and have big signs put in front of their faces and still get it wrong.
C. Marin Faure
Seattle
Niall
Faure) wrote:
>In article <a6n871$a8o$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>, <js...@priest.com> wrote:
>
>> Surely it's not beyond the wit of man to link an electronic isolation switch
>> to the weed hatch cover so that the engine cannot be turned over with the
>> weed hatch open?
>
>Installing an interlock switch of some sort would certainly work, but when
>you consider the environment in which the weed hatch lives, I'm not sure
>it would work for long.
Waterproof heavy duty reed switch and magnet assembly. RS do a
suitable unit which would be quite hard to break, I've used a few as
Loss of Rotation sensors in Rotating Biological Contactors, a somewhat
harsher environment.
--
Niall
Will Chapman
"Niall" <nia...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:friXPDNhh2Wmxh...@4ax.com...
> >Installing an interlock switch of some sort would certainly work, but
when
> >you consider the environment in which the weed hatch lives, I'm not sure
> >it would work for long.
>
> Waterproof heavy duty reed switch and magnet assembly. RS do a
> suitable unit which would be quite hard to break, I've used a few as
> Loss of Rotation sensors in Rotating Biological Contactors, a somewhat
> harsher environment.
>
Hhm..but I wonder if the effect of a weeded prop is rotational slow-down
or rather interruption of water flow...?
--
Will Chapman
nb Quidditch-Launch at Blue Lias Marina on Saturday!
http://www.willchapman.dial.pipex.com/Quidditch.html
Richard Edwards
<qbu...@junkdial.pipex.com> wrote:
>
>"Niall" <nia...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>news:friXPDNhh2Wmxh...@4ax.com...
>
>> >Installing an interlock switch of some sort would certainly work, but
>when
>> >you consider the environment in which the weed hatch lives, I'm not sure
>> >it would work for long.
>>
>> Waterproof heavy duty reed switch and magnet assembly. RS do a
>> suitable unit which would be quite hard to break, I've used a few as
>> Loss of Rotation sensors in Rotating Biological Contactors, a somewhat
>> harsher environment.
>>
>Hhm..but I wonder if the effect of a weeded prop is rotational slow-down
>or rather interruption of water flow...?
Sorry Will he is just using the "Loss of Rotation sensors in Rotating
Biological Contactors" as an example of a harsh environment. The reed
switch and magnet would monitor the hatch cover.
Shirley another option is an additional float switch in the bilge
calling an alarm. This would then monitor leaking weed hatch, holing,
possible loss of coolant, bilge pump non operation, overflow from
heating system, uncle tom cobley and all!
Looking forward to launch of Q. All camera batteries charging,
umbrella at ready.
Richard
Nb "Poundeater"
Will Chapman
"Richard Edwards" <ric...@nospam.edelec.co.uk> wrote in message
news:btfg9uoki11aedump...@4ax.com...
> >>
> >Hhm..but I wonder if the effect of a weeded prop is rotational slow-down
> >or rather interruption of water flow...?
> Sorry Will he is just using the "Loss of Rotation sensors in Rotating
> Biological Contactors" as an example of a harsh environment.
Of course...I missed that!
>The reed switch and magnet would monitor the hatch cover.
> Shirley another option is an additional float switch in the bilge
> calling an alarm. This would then monitor leaking weed hatch, holing,
> possible loss of coolant, bilge pump non operation, overflow from
> heating system, uncle tom cobley and all!
> Looking forward to launch of Q. All camera batteries charging,
> umbrella at ready.
Look forward to meeting you there...make yourself known. Perhaps
we can do the 'access to weed-hatch' test together. I tried to check
it on Quidditch in the shed last weekend by lowering myself into the
engine area via the weed hatch, and managed to get in by straddling
the engine with both legs (I like something warm between my thighs
but I think that might be a bit much and way too lumpy).
I came to the conclusion that the best way is to lie prone on the deck
and lean down into the weed-hatch...the question as to whether my
arms are long enough remains as I had to make way for the electrician
finishing off the junction box (God knows what he thought I was up
to)!
Cheers
C. Marin Faure
richard@edelec<dot>co<dot>uk wrote:
> Shirley another option is an additional float switch in the bilge
> calling an alarm. This would then monitor leaking weed hatch, holing,
> possible loss of coolant, bilge pump non operation, overflow from
> heating system, uncle tom cobley and all!
This can be obtained as an off-the-shelf item at many marine stores, West
Marine being one of them (they have an on-line catalog if they don't have
outlets in the UK). We have one of these "high water" alarms fitted in
the bilge of our Grand Banks trawler. If water reaches a level of about
eight inches in the bilge, the alarm goes off. Like the automatic bilge
pump, the high water alarm is wired directly to the boat's battery bank,
so turning off all DC power at the control panel does not affect the
operation of the bilge pump or the alarm.
Richard Edwards
wrote:
>You can make an alarm by cutting off the sensor of a smoke alarm and
>running a couple of wires with bare ends to the maximum flood level
>point.
Excellent option. Give the man a coconut, best idea this year :-)
Richard
Nb "Poundeater"
Tony Brooks
wrote:
>You can make an alarm by cutting off the sensor of a smoke alarm and
>running a couple of wires with bare ends to the maximum flood level
>point.
>--
>m.
Or standing a bilge pump float ona brick & wiring to a warning
lamp/horn etc.
Tony Brooks
C. Marin Faure
Mar...@reading-college.ac.uk (Tony Brooks) wrote:
> >You can make an alarm by cutting off the sensor of a smoke alarm and
> >running a couple of wires with bare ends to the maximum flood level
> >point.
> Or standing a bilge pump float ona brick & wiring to a warning
> lamp/horn etc.
This is in essence what the ready-made units are. A standard bilge pump
float switch is mounted on a riser of some sort (a wooden support in the
case of our boat) and connected to an alarm, which is wired to one of the
boat's batteries.
speedy2
C. Marin Faure <fau...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:faurecm-2103...@dialup-64.154.188.133.dial1.seattle1.level3.ne
t...
[snip]
> This is in essence what the ready-made units are. A standard bilge pump
> float switch is mounted on a riser of some sort (a wooden support in the
> case of our boat) and connected to an alarm, which is wired to one of the
> boat's batteries.
>
> C. Marin Faure
> Seattle, Washington
Far simpler system - get the hirers to use reverse, instead of dismantling
bits of the boat!
We never open the "weed" hatch - its 3" underwater nowadays, (unless the 200
gallon bow water tank is full, and the stern 70 gallon fuel one nearly
empty)!
Whenever the engine feels as though its labouring a bit, a few moments of
fast astern clear the weeds very quickly.
Dave n.b. Hailey Wood, Dundas.
p.s I know this is no good for wire and bedsprings, but so far, in about 20
years, we've only met weeds/reeds and the occasional polybag.
C. Marin Faure
<spe...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> Far simpler system - get the hirers to use reverse, instead of dismantling
> bits of the boat!
That may well work for some of the things that can be picked up by a
prop. But we've had long lengths of rope, plastic tarps, even a leather
jacket get round the prop. Reverse wouldn't clear it, it simply tied a
new series of knots in the stuff. Trying to get at it with a boathook
from the shore beside the boat wouldn't clear it. The only solution was
to go down through the weed hatch and take a knife to the stuff, and even
then it was sometimes quite a struggle.
There is a device I've seen advertised in boating magazines here in the US
that's supposed to help reduce the risk of getting something wound round
the prop. It's a twin-bladed, knife-like affair that clamps around the
prop shaft just ahead of the propeller. The edges are very sharp, and it
supposedly will chew through line and other debris and prevent it from
becoming wound round the propshaft. I've heard it does a reasonable job,
but only on lines up to about 1/2 inch thick. The blue poly line we got
round the shaft outside Blackburn on the L&L was almost an inch thick. I
don't know how effective such a device would be on sheet debris such as a
tarp or large carrier bag. And I don't know that there is enough exposed
propshaft ahead of the propeller on a narrowboat to accomodate this cutter
device anyway.