the trouble with Tryfan
Tim James
Just thought I'd share my experiences from Monday with you. I'd
appreciate hearing anyone's thoughts !
We set off up Tryfan from the car park at the west end of Llyn Ogwen
for what I thought would be a straightforward day's walking. Wrong !
Going up was easy enough, via Llyn Bochwlyd (sp ?). We turned left to
face the South Peak of Tryfan with the intention of getting up to the
summit and straight back down, then doing the Glyders. Unfortunately
Monday was misty and claggy and very slippy underfoot. Half way up
Tryfan I decided not to do the Glyders and get straight back down from
Tryfan.
Now I've tried to shrug off what happened up there but there's no
escaping the fact - it was hard and has opened my eyes to the fact
that I'm not as adept at this game as I thought. The climb up Tryfan
was hand over hand across boulders - very hands on in fact. My wife is
less experienced and she was very nervous with what we were having to
do. There was only one real moment of exposure, about 50 yards from
Adam and Eve, which with the whipping wind was made even more
interesting.
So far so good, we were there in one piece without mishap, but my wife
was feeling it.
On the way down things went wrong ! I was intending to descend the
North Ridge. We set off due north following the ridge all the way. We
came to a deep cleft after about 10 minutes and dropped to our right
(onto the east face) down a chute/gully, which was steep but
relatively easy. About a hundred yards down the chute we turned left
to again face north. This was unpleasant and nerve racking but we were
still ok. This was more of a track and quite easy after what had
happened previously. I had been following our progress on a GPS and
had marked a waypoint where the track was supposed to sharply head
west and lead down to the road, at about 670 metres altitude. When we
reached this point I made the mistake which could have been
disastrous. I ignored my instincts to carry on north down a rough path
along the ridge, and instead turned as the map indicated to the west,
just because the GPS said so ! A path led away but it could easily
have been a sheep track, because we were soon in knee deep heather
dotted with ankle breaking boulders. We lost around 150-200 metres in
height on this terrain but I was becoming increasingly concerned about
the increase in steepness of the descent ahead of us. The path was a
distant memory and survival was the only concern. Common sense says we
should have turned around but that had gone out of the window. The
increasing steepness culminated in sheer rock faces ! Panic set in. We
couldn't go back or forward. Helen was practically in tears. I struck
out edging down a rocky cleft which gave me some footholds. The
footholds gave out and eventually I slipped, luckily landing on my
feet on a ledge, a drop of about 12 feet. I had to coax Helen to
follow and she slipped at the same point as I did, but I was able to
catch her fall. Helen now was in tears. The worst was over, but we
still had to lose a lot of height on scree slopes before getting to
safety at the car park. We were both shaken up by the experience (not
to mention a ripped jacket, broken watch strap, cuts and bruises !)
If anyone is still reading this far in, I'd really like to hear what
people think. My main questions are :-
1) Is Tryfan acknowledged to be a tough climb/descent ? It's the
hardest thing I've ever done.
2) Does the North Ridge descent have to be as hard as I made it ? If
I'd continued on the high point of the ridge the whole way down would
things have been easier ?
3) For next time (if ever !) is it possible to (safely) join the
Heather Terrace by dropping down off the North Ridge ?
For my part, I can analyse where I went wrong - reliance on GPS,
ignoring a path and the map, not having the balls to retrace my steps
- but I think I would probably end up doing the same thing again -
there was a weird sensation of needing to get down off the mountain
asap and rational thought was abandoned - has anyone else experienced
this ?
Oh, and one other thing - does anyone know a good place for Leki
spares ? I snapped the bottom two inches off my trekking pole in
between two rocks !
Thanks for reading.
Tim
chris gilbert
experiene. You didn't endanger anyone else so don't
fret. These are the experiences from which we learn
the most. You'll be better for it in the long run. Some
people are unlucky enough to be killed by thier first
error in judgement.
Chris
Paul Rooney
>If anyone is still reading this far in, I'd really like to hear what
>people think. My main questions are :-
>
>1) Is Tryfan acknowledged to be a tough climb/descent ? It's the
>hardest thing I've ever done.
It depends on the exact route you take - some routes are very tricky
indeed.
>2) Does the North Ridge descent have to be as hard as I made it ? If
>I'd continued on the high point of the ridge the whole way down would
>things have been easier ?
Not necessarily. It's much easier to pick your route going up rather
than down. There isn't one particular path - you just have to pick
your own way in some places, and some are easier. I'd recommend going
back and ascending the N ridge in good conditions, then you can see
exactly what I mean. You can certainly get up and down without having
to make any manoeuvres like you did (sounds most unpleasant!), but you
can't always see that from above.
Paul
Paul Brown
news:f6c5c93.01081...@posting.google.com...
>
> There was only one real moment of exposure, about 50
> yards from Adam and Eve, which with the whipping wind
> was made even more interesting.
I remember that bit. Although when I did Tryfan (up and down from the
South Peak) it was pouring down and limited visibility cut down the
exposure, it still wasn't pleasant.
[snipped detailed account]
Well I glad you and your wife made it down OK in the end. My girlfriend
is decidedly nervy on anything approaching steep terrain (and I don't
think I have best scrambling head on my shoulders). I don't think she
would even set foot on Tryfan.
> 1) Is Tryfan acknowledged to be a tough climb/descent?
> It's the hardest thing I've ever done.
AFAIK (though I've only heard plenty of other people's reports), most
definitely YES, especially if you've never really done much scrambling
before. I found the South Ridge fairly simple, apart from that one
section of exposure you mentioned, which was made worse by the weather.
It only caused a moment's hesitation though.
> 2) Does the North Ridge descent have to be as hard as I
> made it? If I'd continued on the high point of the ridge the
> whole way down would things have been easier?
I doubt it needs to be as hard as you'd made it, though I think more
people traverse it from North to South than the other way around.
--
Paul Brown
Peter Thorne
> If anyone is still reading this far in, I'd really like to hear what
> people think. My main questions are :-
>
> 1) Is Tryfan acknowledged to be a tough climb/descent ? It's the
> hardest thing I've ever done.
I've ascended this a few times now in different weather conditions, its
okay as an ascent if you know what you are doing. I think it is classed
as a classic grade 1 or 2 scramble (so relatively easy), although you
can make it much harder. I remember one time taking four hours to coax a
group of 8 (well only one of them really) up it and really wishing
afterwards that I'd bought the rope out at a couple of points (both
hands supporting their foot while I'm standing on a thin ledge isn't
very smart with hindsight). If you were experienced I would say it could
be descended, but I'd only choose to descend if there were really no
alternative. I certainly wouldn't set out to descend it, especially in
poor vis or wet conditions. I've always come off to the South into the
col and then decided a route from there.
> 2) Does the North Ridge descent have to be as hard as I made it ?
Your account sounds pretty horrendous, but I don't think it could have
been easy if that's what you mean, much more bearable perhaps.
> If
> I'd continued on the high point of the ridge the whole way down would
> things have been easier ?
There are so many alternative routes on the ridge itself that its hard
to say, if you'd taken your time you could have picked a much easier
route, but equally depending upon your choices, and given your admitted
lack of willingness to retrace your route, you could have ended up much
worse.
The main thing is that you survived and will have hopefully learnt a lot
of lessons for next time such a situation arises.
Peter
Michael Farthing
>Hi all,
>
>Just thought I'd share my experiences from Monday with you. I'd
>appreciate hearing anyone's thoughts !
>
>We set off up Tryfan from the car park at the west end of Llyn Ogwen
Been there, done that. Same mountain. Same route. Did you notice that
no tee shirts are on sale at Llyn Ogwen? There isn't the demand, but I
believe they are thinking of trying a line in shrouds.
In my case we turned back at the 12ft drop (though a different one, I
think, from your description) and effectively had to rock climb back
without the rope. I was a gibbering wreck. We had less excuse: the
weather was perfect. No GPS though (it was 1978).
--
Michael Farthing
cyclades
Software House
Austin Donnelly
Tim James <jimt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>1) Is Tryfan acknowledged to be a tough climb/descent ? It's the
>hardest thing I've ever done.
As others have said, it varies from a reasonably straightforward grade 1
scramble along the ridge to full-on rock climbing on the East and West faces.
North Ridge done from North to South is a wonderfully exhilarating grade
1 scramble. I've done it many times from North to South, sometimes in icy
conditions. I've never done it backwards (as you did) but I imagine the
route-finding might be a bit harder, especially as you haddn't done it
before in the forwards direction.
>2) Does the North Ridge descent have to be as hard as I made it ? If
>I'd continued on the high point of the ridge the whole way down would
>things have been easier ?
Yes. Sticking to the ridge makes it a lot easier. In particular, if
you vear off to the East while leaving the summit going Northwards, you'll
end up on some pretty tricky terrain (as you discovered).
>3) For next time (if ever !) is it possible to (safely) join the
>Heather Terrace by dropping down off the North Ridge ?
Yes it's possible, but not easy.
There are a couple of grade 1 scrambles that go from Heather
Terrace to the North Ridge. However, reversing them would require
quite some skill in routefinding to find the start of the descent.
Again, this is something that I'd only consider doing after having done
the scramble in the normal ascending direction first.
I can recommend "Scrambles in Snowdonia" published by Cicerone Press.
It gives descriptions of around 10 or so scrambles on Tryfan, most of them
on the East face starting from Heather Terrace.
Because Tryfan is so compact, even the 1:25000 map can't really show all
the features properly. So it is vital to have a good guidebook which can
show you the main gully lines etc, and say how hard they are. You need
to use a certain amount of mountain sense in picking your route, and that
comes with practice.
Consider joining a local hillwalking club, where you can learn from the
more experienced people, and do harder stuff you wouldn't want to do on you
own.
Tryfan has to be my favourite mountain - for such a compact hill, it
can provide many days of entertainment. I've done the North Ridge 3 or 4
times, and you never quite go the same way each time. I've done Nor' Nor'
Gully (GR1 scramble from Heather Terrace up to Adam and Eve). I've done the
North Ridge in snow, then twice in ice. I've done Grooved Arete, a beautiful
rock climb from Heather Terrace up to the North Ridge.
Please, don't let one bad experience on Tryfan put you off going back.
Tryfan is the cutest mountain in Britain :)
Austin
Carol Haynes
> hardest thing I've ever done.
The North Ridge is a Grade 1 scramble, but all difficulties can be avoided
on paths to the West of the ridge and then it is a rocky walk.
> 2) Does the North Ridge descent have to be as hard as I made it ? If
> I'd continued on the high point of the ridge the whole way down would
> things have been easier ?
Sounds as though you headed too much to the east - sticking on the crest
gives a reasonable route, though not necessarily totally easy or obvious
from above. As I said above, paths skirt all (or at least most) of the
difficulties, but don't go too far to the west either as there are crags
there too.
> 3) For next time (if ever !) is it possible to (safely) join the
> Heather Terrace by dropping down off the North Ridge ?
Not easily, and if you don't know where you are going you could get onto
some very serious areas which are definitely rock climbing.
> For my part, I can analyse where I went wrong - reliance on GPS,
> ignoring a path and the map, not having the balls to retrace my steps
> - but I think I would probably end up doing the same thing again -
> there was a weird sensation of needing to get down off the mountain
> asap and rational thought was abandoned - has anyone else experienced
> this ?
Probably a reliance on a map or GPS is not such a good thing in this kind of
terrain. Intuition and routefinding are the most important skills, and, most
importantly, the ability to turn round when things aren't going according to
plan or you are getting out of your depth.
Congratulations on surviving - if you go again can I suggest the more
conventional route (up the N ridge, down the S) and then if you ever come
down the N ridge again you will have a clearer idea of where you are going.
Route finding on scrambles is almost always easier on the way up!
--
Carol
www.playoutdoors.org.uk
pete
I can only offer comment on your 1st question.
> 1) Is Tryfan acknowledged to be a tough climb/descent ? It's the
> hardest thing I've ever done.
Its a classic scramble, but look in the Ogwin Valley Mountain Rescue year
book, their are more casualties from the North face then just about
anything else. Personally, i wouldn't have attempted to descend that sort
of scramble. I have with other relatively experienced walkers ascended it.
Again 'personally' i found following the set 'scramble' potentially
difficult and unclear. Its very easy to stray into climbing routes and at
times we were more 'climbing' than scrambling.
Cheers
Pete
> 2) Does the North Ridge descent have to be as hard as I made it ? If
> I'd continued on the high point of the ridge the whole way down would
> things have been easier ?
> 3) For next time (if ever !) is it possible to (safely) join the
> Heather Terrace by dropping down off the North Ridge ?
>
> For my part, I can analyse where I went wrong - reliance on GPS,
> ignoring a path and the map, not having the balls to retrace my steps
> - but I think I would probably end up doing the same thing again -
> there was a weird sensation of needing to get down off the mountain
> asap and rational thought was abandoned - has anyone else experienced
> this ?
>
> Oh, and one other thing - does anyone know a good place for Leki
> spares ? I snapped the bottom two inches off my trekking pole in
> between two rocks !
>
> Thanks for reading.
>
> Tim
--
Carpe Diem
Paul Saunders
> I ignored my instincts to carry on north down a rough path
> along the ridge, and instead turned as the map indicated to the west,
> just because the GPS said so !
Never trust the GPS when there are cliffs in close proximity, they block a
large part of the sky and the bad satellite reception often gives inaccurate
readings.
Also, you need to walk at a certain minimum speed for the map and direction
arrows in the GPS to work properly. On steep rough ground you may not have
been moving fast enough, so the GPS wouldn't point you in the right
direction anyway.
> If anyone is still reading this far in,
Of course, this is quite entertaining!
> 1) Is Tryfan acknowledged to be a tough climb/descent ?
I guess so, for walkers anyway.
> 2) Does the North Ridge descent have to be as hard as I made it ? If
> I'd continued on the high point of the ridge the whole way down would
> things have been easier ?
I've been up the North Ridge 4 times and every time I've gone up a different
way. I'm not even sure what the "correct" route is. There is an
unavoidable steep section as you get near the top though, all my routes seem
to converge on that.
I wouldn't fancy descending the North Ridge in bad visibility, even though
I've been up it a few times. The "steep section" I mentioned would probably
look very daunting from above and it may not be at all clear which is the
best way down. (There were a few people on last year's meet who thought it
looked pretty daunting from below.)
> 3) For next time (if ever !) is it possible to (safely) join the
> Heather Terrace by dropping down off the North Ridge ?
Probably not a good idea.
First time I was on Tryfan I stayed to photograph the sunset, then I needed
to get down quickly since I didn't have a torch with me. I can't be certain
of the exact location (it was back in the eighties) but I descended via a
steep gully which I think was more or less due west of the summit.
If you check the 1:25,000 map you'll notice that the slope just west of the
summit is not covered in crag markers (although it is still very rocky) and
the Harvey's map actually shows a path heading west from the summit.
Although steep and sometimes awkward, the gully was quite safe to descend.
My knee didn't thank me for it though and I had to abandon my planned walk
around the Snowdon Horseshoe as a result.
Chris Boughay told me that fell runners use that gully for an ultra fast
descent of Tryfan.
> For my part, I can analyse where I went wrong - reliance on GPS,
A GPS is a good guide, but not an infallible one. Whenever there's anything
blocking all or part of the sky (cliffs, trees, deep valleys), check the
satellite display (if you've got one) to see what kind of reception you're
getting, and check the EPE (estimated position error). If the reception is
bad and the EPE is high, don't trust it.
Paul
Gordon Harris
>Hi all,
>
>Just thought I'd share my experiences from Monday with you. I'd
>appreciate hearing anyone's thoughts !
>
>people think. My main questions are :-
>
>1) Is Tryfan acknowledged to be a tough climb/descent ? It's the
>hardest thing I've ever done.
This is one TR I read with interest, and also the replies.
It is illuminating to read honest assessments of Tryfan, but a pity that
they are only in response to an account of somebody's scary experiences.
I have read several comments in the group on the lines that "Tryfan is a
doddle", but people I know personally have all given a far different
account. It confirms my suspicion that I should stay well away from
this one, and is a warning to be wary of opinions from people you have
not walked with. :-)
I don't recollect being scared on Sharp Edge on one of my first few hill
walks. I suppose the older you get the less immortal you feel......
--
Gordon
Stewart Robert Hinsley
<gor...@g3snx.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>I don't recollect being scared on Sharp Edge on one of my first few hill
>walks. I suppose the older you get the less immortal you feel......
I was over Sharp Edge as a kid without, as far as I remember, any
qualms. Looking at from Scales Fell it now looks impassible.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley
Paul Rooney
<gor...@g3snx.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>This is one TR I read with interest, and also the replies.
>It is illuminating to read honest assessments of Tryfan, but a pity that
>they are only in response to an account of somebody's scary experiences.
>I have read several comments in the group on the lines that "Tryfan is a
>doddle", but people I know personally have all given a far different
>account.
It's not difficult, if you are careful which route you pick, but I'd
guess most people would find it scary. I've done it several ways, and
I don't know of one that doesn't include a crag that you could fall
off, if you weren't careful, causing yourself serious damage (but
there may well be such a safe ascent).
Paul
Paul Saunders
> I have read several comments in the group on the lines that "Tryfan is a
> doddle",
Well let's be honest, if you're young, fit and agile with a head for heights
and you go up in fine weather, it is a doddle, assuming you go up the right
way.
But not everyone is young, fit and agile with a head for heights and the
weather often isn't fine. And there are lots of dangerous bits if you don't
go the right way.
Paul
pete bland
<pv...@wildwales.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>.... I descended via a
>steep gully which I think was more or less due west of the summit.
>
>If you check the 1:25,000 map you'll notice that the slope just west of the
>summit is not covered in crag markers (although it is still very rocky) and
>the Harvey's map actually shows a path heading west from the summit.
>
>Although steep and sometimes awkward, the gully was quite safe to descend.
>My knee didn't thank me for it though and I had to abandon my planned walk
>around the Snowdon Horseshoe as a result.
>
>Chris Boughay told me that fell runners use that gully for an ultra fast
>descent of Tryfan.
I know the gulley Paul refers to - usually called "easy gulley" or
"western gulley" and agree it is a fairly safe way of getting down
from the summit quickly. I've used it doing the Welsh 3000s and at
other times. It does NOT however start at the summit itself. You haver
to start descending the north ridge, towards the A5, until you reach
the FIRST notch in the ridge - only 5-10 mins from the top. Then turn
left (west) and make your way carefully into the gulley, which should
now be obvious.
There are no real problems on this decent - a couple of short steps
here and there and the usual cautions about loose stuff lying around.
When you emerge from the gulley - still fairly high - you can
continue west and pick up a steep path which will take you to
Milestone car park. It is possible to go down more northerly, past
Bragg rocks and finish close to the foot of Milestone Buttress, but
this is generally steeper and looser.
--
Pete Bland
(email address spam-trapped)
Paul Saunders
> It does NOT however start at the summit itself. You haver
> to start descending the north ridge, towards the A5, until you reach
> the FIRST notch in the ridge - only 5-10 mins from the top. Then turn
> left (west) and make your way carefully into the gulley, which should
> now be obvious.
Thanks for that. It was a long time ago and I can't remember how I found
it. I must have wandered around for a bit looking for an easy way down.
Paul
Tim James
I'm really chuffed with the responses. This has to be the most
welcoming, useful and goddamn sexy newsgroup I've ever had the
pleasure to participate in.
Thanks to everyone that has responded, your answers were sensitive and
nurturing and not (as I feared) from the "you stupid twat, you must be
a real idiot" school of macho-dom.
I'm really keen to try the North Ridge in the "right" direction now,
thanks to your encouragement.
I now know that I made more mistakes than I had first thought ! We
ignored the "easy gulley" on the west side (at the first notch
northbound from the summit) even though a party in front of us had set
off down it.
Using OziExplorer I can see pretty much where we went wrong - it's the
first time I've used it and it's a great piece of software for
post-walk analysis.
Next time......things will be different !
I just have to persuade my wife that talking about a "next time" is a
good idea.
Thanks again
Tim
Antony
I've found that keeping one's head and taking time, recceing the
surroundings forwards and back is the key to enjoying such places -
don't get yourself into what you can't get out of etc. In this way you
can mentally break the route into manageable chunks and not lose
composure. Easier said than done often but that's what I aim for.
Does anyone else have any thoughts on the "psychology" on the
hill/facing dangerous situations?
Roger Chapman
from "pete bland" <pete...@ihatespam.compuserve.com> contains
these words:
> I know the gulley Paul refers to - usually called "easy gulley" or
> "western gulley" and agree it is a fairly safe way of getting down
> from the summit quickly. I've used it doing the Welsh 3000s and at
> other times. It does NOT however start at the summit itself. You haver
> to start descending the north ridge, towards the A5, until you reach
> the FIRST notch in the ridge - only 5-10 mins from the top. Then turn
> left (west) and make your way carefully into the gulley, which should
> now be obvious.
I always used the North Ridge on successful 3000s attempts but ISTR
when I was researching the best route I came across an account of a
record breaking attempt in which Tryfan was descended from summit to
road in just 13 minutes via the Western Gully. I never went that way
because the ground surface was a good deal more awkward than the North Ridge.
--
Roger
Looking North over the Aire Valley (and Marley Gasworks) to Rombolds Moor
Paul Brown
news:200108171...@zetnet.co.uk...
>
> I always used the North Ridge on successful 3000s
> attempts but ISTR when I was researching the best
> route I came across an account of a record breaking
> attempt in which Tryfan was descended from summit
> to road in just 13 minutes via the Western Gully.
Flippin' 'eck, they must have thrown themselves down!
--
Paul Brown
Katherine Rotherham
Gordon Harris wrote:
>
>
>
> I don't recollect being scared on Sharp Edge on one of my first few hill
> walks. I suppose the older you get the less immortal you feel......
> --
> Gordon
Or the more protective of self.
Katherine
Paul Saunders
> Using OziExplorer I can see pretty much where we went wrong .
I don't know if it's any help, but here's a close-up pic of the east face of
Tryfan;
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/pg/gl/tef75.jpg
Paul
Paul Saunders
> Does anyone else have any thoughts on the "psychology" on the
> hill/facing dangerous situations?
DON'T PANIC!
Paul
Roy Hill
The gully must be the quickest, because I can't imagine anyone getting down
the N ridge in 13 mins. or less (except if they did throw themselves down).
FWIW, 11th June 1988, Colin Donnelly. Elapsed time from Yr Wyddfa to summit
of Foel Fras 4 hours 19 mins 56 secs.
Almost as impressive as the 13 min descent from Tryfan to Ogwen is the 38
minute ascent of Pen yr Ole Wen.
Also the descent is used in a fell race - apparently 7 minutes from summit
to lake shore have been recorded. I wonder how many times you can do that
before the knees wear out.
Richard Webb
>My troubles with Tryfan started this thread.
>
>I'm really chuffed with the responses. This has to be the most
>welcoming, useful and goddamn sexy newsgroup I've ever had the
>pleasure to participate in.
>
>Thanks to everyone that has responded, your answers were sensitive and
>nurturing and not (as I feared) from the "you stupid twat, you must be
>a real idiot" school of macho-dom.
Anyone pulling that stunt here is in for a *hot* time..
FWIW there is no correct route on the broad lower part of th North
ridge, and it is a hard serious place especially in descent.
I have been up it seven times now (my most ascended hill) and have
always found it exciting. Most other hills will be easy in
comparison.
Other than the roadside situation(ie not remote) its a good practice
hill for Scotland and Norway.
Glad you made it down OK.
Richard Webb
Some Tryfan shots: http://www.crux.u-net.com/Feb00/Tryfan.html
Roger Chapman
from "Roy Hill" <Roy_J...@yahoo.co.uk> contains these words:
> FWIW, 11th June 1988, Colin Donnelly. Elapsed time from Yr Wyddfa to summit
> of Foel Fras 4 hours 19 mins 56 secs.
Not exactly as slow as Naismith was he? The relationship between
height gain and speed might be somewhat different but 9mph and 6000
feet per hour give much the same time. (3x Naismith).
Paul Lydon
jimt...@yahoo.com "Tim James" writes:
> My troubles with Tryfan started this thread.
>
> I'm really chuffed with the responses. This has to be the most
> welcoming, useful and goddamn sexy newsgroup I've ever had the
> pleasure to participate in.
>
> Thanks to everyone that has responded, your answers were sensitive and
> nurturing and not (as I feared) from the "you stupid twat, you must be
> a real idiot" school of macho-dom.
>
> I'm really keen to try the North Ridge in the "right" direction now,
> thanks to your encouragement.
>
> I now know that I made more mistakes than I had first thought ! We
> ignored the "easy gulley" on the west side (at the first notch
> northbound from the summit) even though a party in front of us had set
> off down it.
>
> Using OziExplorer I can see pretty much where we went wrong - it's the
> first time I've used it and it's a great piece of software for
> post-walk analysis.
>
> Next time......things will be different !
>
> I just have to persuade my wife that talking about a "next time" is a
> good idea.
>
> Thanks again
>
> Tim
>
As others have said, put down your mistakes to experience and most
importantly, learn from them. Everybody has made mistakes.
We missed each other by a few days, Tim! I traversed Tryfan on the
previous Friday on a walk round the Glyders while in N. Wales for a few
days. I ascended via the North Ridge.
I recommend the North Ridge, as have others. Even better is to continue
on up Glyder Fach via Bristly Ridge and continue on around other peaks
and descend via various available routes. I recommend "The Ridges
of Snowdonia" by Steve Ashton as well as his book on scrambling routes
in N. Wales, as a good introduction
These are indeed scrambling routes - in good conditions whether you find
them easy, dificult, downright impossible or "You must be joking!" is up
to the individual - nobody else. With experience they will probably seem
easier - and route-finding will improve.
FWIW, my preferred route is to set off from the road (A5) on the path
leading to Milestone Butress and continue gradualy upwards to the left,
zig-zagging using obvious paths until you reach a shoulder and can see
down onto Tryfan Bach and the camp site. From there, in good weather
anyway, you can follow a route which seems well scratched from crampon
usage in winter or the rock is obviouly well travelled. Thereafter keep
as close to the crest as possible. Any steep bits which need hands have
good holds and sound rock - and most of these can be by-passed if you
wish.
Tryfan has the reputation as the only mountain in N. Wales which "cannot
be ascended with your hands in your pockets".
--
*********************************************************
* Paul Lydon *
* Brassington, Derbyshire, UK *
* --- Remove NOSPAM from my email address to reply --- *
*********************************************************
Trevor Dennis
>There was only one real moment of exposure, about 50 yards from
>Adam and Eve, which with the whipping wind was made even more
>interesting.
The nearest Tryfan comes to polished rock, but still
pretty grippy with reasonable boots. There is often a
queue there, but it easily bypassed a few metres to
the west.
> We
>came to a deep cleft after about 10 minutes and dropped to our right
>(onto the east face) down a chute/gully, which was steep but
>relatively easy. About a hundred yards down the chute we turned left
>to again face north. This was unpleasant and nerve racking but we were
>still ok.
There should have been no problem with the path there.
AFAIR you maintain your height passing to the right of
the north peak. After that the only difficulty is a slabby
down-climb back onto an obvious path, and back round
to the west and the large plateau area just before the
last steep climb to the summit. In fact, this route is
used by folk wanting to avoid the steep bit.
My bet is that you missed the slabby bit, and dropped
down to the right of it.
The gully you mentioned is one of my favourite places
on the hill. I love the massive chock stone you have
to duck under, and the clamber into/out of the gully.
> I ignored my instincts to carry on north down a rough path
>along the ridge, and instead turned as the map indicated to the west,
>just because the GPS said so ! A path led away but it could easily
>have been a sheep track, because we were soon in knee deep heather
Getting a bit confused here. Do you mean 'east' and not west?
West would take you back up the hill, unless you had descended
the slab I mentioned.
> Panic set in. We
>couldn't go back or forward. Helen was practically in tears. I struck
>out edging down a rocky cleft which gave me some footholds. The
>footholds gave out and eventually I slipped, luckily landing on my
>feet on a ledge, a drop of about 12 feet.
A Coleridge moment. Were you moved to write poetry? ;-)
> I had to coax Helen to
>follow and she slipped at the same point as I did, but I was able to
>catch her fall. Helen now was in tears.
The books would say never to commit yourself to a move
you can't reverse. But it sure tests the willpower to
go back the way you came - especially if it's up hill.
>2) Does the North Ridge descent have to be as hard as I made it ? If
>I'd continued on the high point of the ridge the whole way down would
>things have been easier ?
Good gracious me no. IMO the easiest way down would be
to drop off to the west just beyond your gully, then
veer back round to the north losing height as you go.
This brings you to the afore mentioned plateau where
you are spoilt for choice as to which way to continue.
>3) For next time (if ever !) is it possible to (safely) join the
>Heather Terrace by dropping down off the North Ridge ?
Best not to me thinks. If you had turned right instead
of left at the bottom of the gully, there is a sort of
a path down to the east about half way back to the Adam
& Eve stones. Not an easy route to follow, and lots of
opportunity for catastrophe.
Best way to the Heather Terrace is head for the South
Peak, keeping well to your left following the ridge.
The path to the HT is very obvious from the saddle
between the two peaks.
I did once have a dodgy moment crossing the slab right
at the top of the HT in wet slippy conditions. My feet
came from under me, and it was a close thing getting hold
of the rock. :(
>For my part, I can analyse where I went wrong - reliance on GPS,
>ignoring a path and the map, not having the balls to retrace my steps
>- but I think I would probably end up doing the same thing again -
>there was a weird sensation of needing to get down off the mountain
>asap and rational thought was abandoned - has anyone else experienced
>this ?
You talked about your instincts earlier on. IME they
rarely let you down, so STOP as soon as you suspect
things are going pear shaped, and sort it out. You
could even try taking a rest and a few deep breaths
before you get the map out.
If conditions allow, look ahead and decide where you
want to get to, and work out the best way to get there.
Chances are that's where the path goes anyway. I bet you
didn't *really* believe the North ridge route went via
the, often sheer, East face?
Don't let it put you or your wife off. Chances are you'll
never get yourselves into such a predicament again.
--
Trevor Dennis
Trevor Dennis
>Tryfan is the cutest mountain in Britain :)
Apart from the litter on the summit. :(
--
Trevor Dennis
Roy Hill
"Trevor Dennis" <tre...@tdennis.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:vSesShB8...@tdennis.demon.co.uk...
> Austin Donnelly writes
>
> >Tryfan is the cutest mountain in Britain :)
>
> Apart from the litter on the summit. :(
>
Paul Saunders
> I recommend the North Ridge, as have others. Even better is to continue
> on up Glyder Fach via Bristly Ridge
I agree, but be warned that Bristly Ridge is a tad more tricky than Tryfan.
Better done when dry.
Paul
Tim James
replied.....
(thanks Trevor !)
> > We
> >came to a deep cleft after about 10 minutes and dropped to our right
> >(onto the east face) down a chute/gully, which was steep but
> >relatively easy. About a hundred yards down the chute we turned left
> >to again face north. This was unpleasant and nerve racking but we were
> >still ok.
>
> There should have been no problem with the path there.
> AFAIR you maintain your height passing to the right of
> the north peak. After that the only difficulty is a slabby
> down-climb back onto an obvious path, and back round
> to the west and the large plateau area just before the
> last steep climb to the summit. In fact, this route is
> used by folk wanting to avoid the steep bit.
>
> My bet is that you missed the slabby bit, and dropped
> down to the right of it.
I think we may have turned off at the plateau that you mention. It was
probably only flat for 30-40 metres square, with some loose, shale and
rock on the top surface descending to it. Looking northwards - north
east wards - the ridge continued for maybe 100-200 metres. It sounds
silly describing it but with all this evidence mounting that the ridge
(path and all) was leading northwards, we turned west into sheep
tracks, heather and random boulders.
>
> The gully you mentioned is one of my favourite places
> on the hill. I love the massive chock stone you have
> to duck under, and the clamber into/out of the gully.
This rings true. I stood on that stone, then got down and saw how
precariously it looked to be balanced.
> > I ignored my instincts to carry on north down a rough path
> >along the ridge, and instead turned as the map indicated to the west,
> >just because the GPS said so ! A path led away but it could easily
> >have been a sheep track, because we were soon in knee deep heather
>
> Getting a bit confused here. Do you mean 'east' and not west?
> West would take you back up the hill, unless you had descended
> the slab I mentioned.
It was definitely west. I don't know the slab but I think from your
descriptions we were at the plateau. We were at about 720 metres
altitude, with the peak behind us and to our left. West took us
downhill into rough ground. Like I say, the "get me down" instinct had
kicked in.
> >2) Does the North Ridge descent have to be as hard as I made it ? If
> >I'd continued on the high point of the ridge the whole way down would
> >things have been easier ?
>
> Good gracious me no. IMO the easiest way down would be
> to drop off to the west just beyond your gully, then
> veer back round to the north losing height as you go.
> This brings you to the afore mentioned plateau where
> you are spoilt for choice as to which way to continue.
I'm blushing, because it sounds like this was where we went wrong !
Lessons have been learnt, I think.
Tim
Antony
Me and a mate called Dan were up Bristly on Saturday. It was wet. At
one point Dan described it as "life affirming"
Antony
Antony
Tryfan was awash with 'lost' people at the weekend. We nipped along
the Heather Terrace to Bristly and came across three groups in the
course of it who didn't have clue where they were. Cloud base was
about 700m and this appeared to have brought on a great deal of
uncertainty among people - apart from the family we came across making
their way extremely hesistantly along the HT who hadn't got a map and
said "We don't know the route, we'll follow you"
Trevor Dennis
>This is one TR I read with interest, and also the replies.
>It is illuminating to read honest assessments of Tryfan, but a pity that
>they are only in response to an account of somebody's scary experiences.
>I have read several comments in the group on the lines that "Tryfan is a
>doddle", but people I know personally have all given a far different
>account. It confirms my suspicion that I should stay well away from
>this one, and is a warning to be wary of opinions from people you have
>not walked with. :-)
But Gordon, you *must* do Tryfan! It's far too interesting a hill to
miss, and the south ridge is a pretty straight forward walk.
I suspect the easiest approach to Bwlch Tryfan - the saddle between the
main and south peaks - is from Idwal Cottage, but I've never walked that
way myself. The Heather Terrace is not too bad, but still affords a few
difficulties, and a boggy approach.
From the saddle the natural line is to go left of the ridge, and you
will se an obvious path going that way. That eventually takes you up an
awkward bolder field to the summit, (a bit worse than the path from
Mickledore to Scafell Pike).
A better route is to stay right and gain height as quickly as you are
comfortable with. That quickly gets you onto a very easy path all the
way to the top.
Before coming back the same way, walk round behind the Adam & Eve stones
and overlook the east face. This provides a quiet place to eat your
sarnies, and if you look over the edge you can see the path from the
gully that was mentioned at the start of this thread.
In fact, walk towards the north ridge, (being careful not to fall over
the huge mounds of empty Pepsi Max cans and orange peel), and look for
said gully. It's really atmospheric and spooky.
>I don't recollect being scared on Sharp Edge on one of my first few hill
>walks. I suppose the older you get the less immortal you feel......
Yer great oop north girls blouse. SE is a motorway.
--
Trevor Dennis
Paul Saunders
> But Gordon, you *must* do Tryfan! It's far too interesting a hill to
> miss, and the south ridge is a pretty straight forward walk.
Yep.
> I suspect the easiest approach to Bwlch Tryfan - the saddle between the
> main and south peaks - is from Idwal Cottage, but I've never walked that
> way myself.
There's a well laid footpath all the way up to the lake, you could probably
push a wheelchair up it! ;-)
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
Gordon Harris
>Gordon Harris writes
>
>It confirms my suspicion that I should stay well away from
>>this one, and is a warning to be wary of opinions from people you have
>>not walked with. :-)
>
>But Gordon, you *must* do Tryfan! It's far too interesting a hill to
>miss, and the south ridge is a pretty straight forward walk.
>
>>I don't recollect being scared on Sharp Edge on one of my first few hill
>>walks. I suppose the older you get the less immortal you feel......
>
>Yer great oop north girls blouse.
I know a little about Northern Girls blouses, in fact, it is in this
area that I am something of an expert. ;-)
A lady I introduced to hill-walking went on to do Tryfan and Crib Goch
with another friend, and good luck to her, but she knows me better than
anyone else does, and says I wouldn't want to do it.
Seriously, I have never had a good sense of balance, which has always
made me uneasy on steep ground and close to exposed edges, and this has
worsened in the last year or so. I am unsteady at times on solid flat
ground now, especially if I stand abruptly from a crouch or sitting
position, and have difficulty with my balance in darkness, i.e. I depend
on visual reference too much.
Besides - I'm a coward.
--
Gordon
Trevor Dennis
>Me and a mate called Dan were up Bristly on Saturday. It was wet. At
>one point Dan described it as "life affirming"
^^^^^^^^^
You'd think a journo would be able spell 'threatening'?
--
Trevor Dennis
Trevor Dennis
>I think we may have turned off at the plateau that you mention. It was
>probably only flat for 30-40 metres square, with some loose, shale and
>rock on the top surface descending to it. Looking northwards - north
>east wards - the ridge continued for maybe 100-200 metres. It sounds
>silly describing it but with all this evidence mounting that the ridge
>(path and all) was leading northwards, we turned west into sheep
>tracks, heather and random boulders.
If you had passed north of the north peak, then you were
at the plateau area. I would have thought it bigger than
you describe, but YMMV as they say.
>It was definitely west. I don't know the slab but I think from your
>descriptions we were at the plateau.
Ah, that is one part of the hill I am not familiar with.
Did you see the Canon? That is over that way, and I have
never yet come across it.
--
Trevor Dennis
Tim James
> >probably only flat for 30-40 metres square, with some loose, shale and
> >rock on the top surface descending to it. Looking northwards - north
> >east wards - the ridge continued for maybe 100-200 metres. It sounds
> >silly describing it but with all this evidence mounting that the ridge
> >(path and all) was leading northwards, we turned west into sheep
> >tracks, heather and random boulders.
>
> If you had passed north of the north peak, then you were
> at the plateau area. I would have thought it bigger than
> you describe, but YMMV as they say.
Ah, maybe - I'm thinking of the bits that were completely flat. Maybe
I'm being a bit pedantic there !
> >It was definitely west. I don't know the slab but I think from your
> >descriptions we were at the plateau.
>
> Ah, that is one part of the hill I am not familiar with.
That's cos only eejits end up on it.
> Did you see the Canon? That is over that way, and I have
> never yet come across it.
Is that in the sense of
a) a funny shaped rock
b) a member of the cloth
c) a set of books making up an author's works ?
I'm guessing a), and there were a few funny shaped rocks around - I
kept saying to Helen, "ooh look, there's that cantilever stone !". By
the end I had said it 7 or 8 times. What does the Canon look like ?
Tim
Antony
Dan isn't a journo.
Paul Brown
>
> There's a well laid footpath all the way up to the lake, you
> could probably push a wheelchair up it! ;-)
In places it's a tad steep for a wheelchair, but up to Bwlch Tryfan it's
certainly no more difficult than most Lakeland ascents. :-) From here
on up the South Ridge the going is a bit trickier - a bit like climbing
up the dome of Pike o' Stickle for about 40 mins - but still not too
difficult.
--
Paul Brown
Andy Rennard
>
> > I ignored my instincts to carry on north down a rough path
> > along the ridge, and instead turned as the map indicated to the west,
> > just because the GPS said so !
>
> Never trust the GPS when there are cliffs in close proximity, they block a
> large part of the sky and the bad satellite reception often gives inaccurate
> readings.
>
Perhaps the title of this thread should be "the trouble with GPS" ??
Let's not start that one again though ;)
> > 1) Is Tryfan acknowledged to be a tough climb/descent ?
Yes and no. IF you're a walker then yes - Tryfan is acknowledged as
being a mountain that you cannot climb without using at least one hand
at least once !
If you're a scrambler - not really. Tryfan is a gem for scrambling and
a great training area and excellent warm up for Bristly Ridge futher
on, but at least on the North Ridge all difficulty can be avoided with
canny natigation.
>
> I've been up the North Ridge 4 times and every time I've gone up a different
> way. I'm not even sure what the "correct" route is. There is an
> unavoidable steep section as you get near the top though, all my routes seem
> to converge on that.
There is no 'correct route' - other than 'upwards' :)
To prove my earlier point - this bit, right below the summit is
probably the most exposed and 'marginal' of the whole route, but you
can avoid it. I bottled out on it last time when the rock needle I was
perched on started to come away from the face :o
To bypass this - continue along further with the ridge on your right
(when ascending). You'll come to a steep gully - climb this and up
over the large flat boulders that are chocked in it, to regain the
ridgeline. You'll feel pretty smug at this point when you realise that
anyone who climbed the pinicles has to descend back down to this point
anyway.
I certainly would think twice about descending the North ridge,
especially in bad weather. Sounds like you had a narrow escape, and I
hope your wife hasn't been traumatised by the experience !
Andy.
Carol Haynes
"Tim James" <jimt...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f6c5c93.01082...@posting.google.com...
> What does the Canon look like ?
Errr ... <scratches head> .... a canon (now say RED backwards)
See:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/carol.haynes/tryfan-cannon.jpg
A typical day in Wales (gales and torrential rain).
The canon is more or less at the start of the serious rocky bits on the
north ridge, on a flattish area overlooking Llyn Ogwen
--
Carol
www.playoutdoors.org.uk
Andy Rennard
> Tim and other wrote stuff about Tryfan:
>
> I've found that keeping one's head and taking time, recceing the
> surroundings forwards and back is the key to enjoying such places -
> don't get yourself into what you can't get out of etc. In this way you
> can mentally break the route into manageable chunks and not lose
> composure. Easier said than done often but that's what I aim for.
>
> Does anyone else have any thoughts on the "psychology" on the
> hill/facing dangerous situations?
Definately:
- remain calm at all times. If you're currently stood on good ground,
then there is no reason to panic, unless there's a danger of being
blown off/buried in an avalanche/it's getting dark. Presumably you
just came from good ground too - and you can always get back to it.
Can't you ? (see below)
- never get into what you can't get out of. Of course, the trick is
working out what you can't get out of *before* you get into it
- be confident. Often I've been carried onwards on a seemingly dubious
route just by my self confidence - to find that it payed off. Had I
doubted myself, I would have backtracked and wasted time or got lost.
- don't be over confident - know your limits. It may be hard work to
backtrack sometimes, but you're much better off doing so than pushing
yourself into something you can't get out of (see above)
- trust your instincts. Sometimes something just plain 'feels wrong'.
Listen to that inner voice.
- don't trust your instincts too much. Use that compass, and believe
it (unless you have good reason not to). Never trust your instincts in
fog/cloud/bad weather/at night - because they are normally just plain
wrong. That's what comes of being diurnal
- relax - this is supposed to be fun, isn't it ?
On a more technical note, when scrambling:
- keep your body away from the rock. Hugging the rock does you no
good, your arms and legs need room to move, and the further your head
is from the rock the better you can spot holds.
- try and keep 3 points of contact when on especially difficult areas.
- test everything before trusting your weight to it
- make sure nobody is below you when there is loose rock about
Basically, it's all common sense and instinct, with a bit of
experience for good measure.
Remember ***scrambling is the most dangerous mountain pursuit*** -
precicely because it's normally not difficuly enough to justfy roping
up. Keep safe.
Paul Saunders
> > If you had passed north of the north peak, then you were
> > at the plateau area. I would have thought it bigger than
> > you describe, but YMMV as they say.
>
> Ah, maybe - I'm thinking of the bits that were completely flat. Maybe
> I'm being a bit pedantic there !
A short while ago Graham Jackman posted some pics of the Carneddau (see
thread "Photos from the Carneddau, Snowdonia") They're at;
http://community.webshots.com/album/18826161nlzYANEMdY
There's a very good shot of Tryfan taken from the other side of the valley.
Take a look at it, it might help you to figure out where you where and where
the plateau is. (Click on "view full size" at the bottom to get the
1024x768 version.)
There are two clear paths down on the western side, can someone tell me
which one is "West Gully"? Does it lead to the path down from the highest
grassy bit, or is the lower much steeper looking gully?
> > Did you see the Canon? That is over that way, and I have
> > never yet come across it.
>
> What does the Canon look like ?
I have a photo somewhere, would you like me to find it and scan it, or does
anyone else have one handy?
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
Roy Hill
<lairdswoodDO...@yahoo.co.uk> =====
>
No - it looks like a cannon.
What was that about RED? ;>)
At least the picture has cleared it up...
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Austin Donnelly
Paul Saunders <pv...@wildwales.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> What does the Canon look like ?
>
>I have a photo somewhere, would you like me to find it and scan it, or does
>anyone else have one handy?
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~and1000/photoPage/tryfan2001.html
Second photo down the page.
Austin
Carol Haynes
"Roy Hill" <roy_...@MailAndNews.com> wrote in message
news:3B84...@MailAndNews.com...
> >===== Original Message From "Carol Haynes"
> <lairdswoodDO...@yahoo.co.uk> =====
> >"Tim James" <jimt...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:f6c5c93.01082...@posting.google.com...
> >
> >> What does the Canon look like ?
> >
> >Errr ... <scratches head> .... a canon (now say RED backwards)
>
>
> No - it looks like a cannon.
>
> What was that about RED? ;>)
Say it backwards and its obvious ;-)
Stephan Bird
> A short while ago Graham Jackman posted some pics of the Carneddau (see
> thread "Photos from the Carneddau, Snowdonia") They're at;
> http://community.webshots.com/album/18826161nlzYANEMdY
>
> There's a very good shot of Tryfan taken from the other side of the valley.
> Take a look at it, it might help you to figure out where you where and where
> the plateau is. (Click on "view full size" at the bottom to get the
> 1024x768 version.)
So is that 1024 *ft* x 768 *ft* for the "full size" version? ;)
Seriously tho', some nice piccys. I never seem to get the right
conditions :(
Yours,
Stephan
--
Stephan Bird MChem(Hons) GRSC
e-mail pcxsj...@nottingham.ac.uk (remove the metal)
"Who am I, why am I here? Forget the questions someone gimme another beer"
Meatloaf, Everything louder than everything else, Bat out of Hell II
Roy Hill
<lairdswoodDO...@yahoo.co.uk> =====
>"Roy Hill" <roy_...@MailAndNews.com> wrote in message
>news:3B84...@MailAndNews.com...
>> >===== Original Message From "Carol Haynes"
>> <lairdswoodDO...@yahoo.co.uk> =====
>> >"Tim James" <jimt...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> >news:f6c5c93.01082...@posting.google.com...
>> >
>> >> What does the Canon look like ?
>> >
>> >Errr ... <scratches head> .... a canon (now say RED backwards)
>>
>>
>> No - it looks like a cannon.
>>
>> What was that about RED? ;>)
>
>Say it backwards and its obvious ;-)
>
No -there isn't a 'Canon' on Tryfan.
Yes ---there is a 'Cannon' on Tryfan.
Der - that's German, innit?
Michael Farthing
uk.rec.walking:
So the canon looks like a cannon or is it that the cannon looks like a
canon? Or does it just look like an army padre helping the artillery
out on a busy day? Think about it, Carol.
[And then say RED backwards :-)]
--
Michael Farthing
cyclades
Software House
Carol Haynes
"Michael Farthing" <m...@cyclades.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Wgs3gJAo...@cyclades.demon.co.uk...
Hadn't realised you were being clever - okay I can't spell!
--
Carol
www.playoutdoors.org.uk
Antony
I found the opposite. I've been up both of 'em for the first time in
recent weeks (T when dry, BR when wet) and found Tryfan had the more
diffcult moves on it - ie, smaller handholds, some jamming,
close-to-smear footholds. And Tryfan is a longer ascent if you go from
the north.
Antony
Antony
Good stuff Andy. I personally see experience as key. I've been zooming
up the learning curve recently, seeing each bit of new experience add
to my 'sense' . . . and loving it!
Roger Chapman
from antony....@rbi.co.uk (Antony) contains these words:
> > I agree, but be warned that Bristly Ridge is a tad more tricky than Tryfan.
> > Better done when dry.
> >
> > Paul
> I found the opposite. I've been up both of 'em for the first time in
> recent weeks (T when dry, BR when wet) and found Tryfan had the more
> diffcult moves on it - ie, smaller handholds, some jamming,
> close-to-smear footholds. And Tryfan is a longer ascent if you go from
> the north.
I have lost count of the number of times I have been up or down the
North Ridge of Tryfan during the last 40 years but I have never
experienced such difficulties. If you take the easiest line you do
not even need to take your hands out of your pockets for much of the
route and nowhere is there anything on a par with the exit from the
initial chimney on Bristly Ridge.
--
Roger
Looking North over the Aire Valley (and Marley Gasworks) to Rombolds Moor
pete bland
<pv...@wildwales.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>There's a very good shot of Tryfan taken from the other side of the valley.
>Take a look at it, it might help you to figure out where you where and where
>the plateau is. (Click on "view full size" at the bottom to get the
>1024x768 version.)
>
>There are two clear paths down on the western side, can someone tell me
>which one is "West Gully"? Does it lead to the path down from the highest
>grassy bit, or is the lower much steeper looking gully?
I'm looking at the photo at:
http://community.webshots.com/photo/18826161/18827637PPifbWEsqd
Western (or Easy) gulley is not visible as such, but you can see the
path emerging from its base going down at an apparent 45 degrees left
to right across the high green stuff. The line of the path, continued
upwards meets the summit ridge just left (north) of the top.
The lower steep-looking gulley is not as bad as it looks, but is not
particularly recommended. It can't be described as a path but you can
get down if determined to take the shortest line towards Pen yr Ole
Wen east ridge. If you have scant regard for your own personal safety
you may do it quicker.
--
Pete Bland
(email address spam-trapped)
KJR
I'm amazed that there aren't more accidents/fatalities on the hills. People do
the stupidest things. IME:
1) A couple walking up Snowdon (half-way up PYG track), midwinter, cold, damp,
snow on ground. He fully fitted with rucksack, boots, cag, overtrousers. She
dressed in pedal pushers, light shoes and woolly pullover. Perhaps he wanted
rid of her!
2) My (ex-)club decided to climb Helvellyn (up Sticks Pass, down Striding Edge):
Frozen hard above 300m, but no ice axes or crampons. We whimped out at top of
Sticks and went back. Rest continued but couldn't descend Striding Edge. Ended
up on West side and had to walk back round the mountain to the car. We were on
the point of calling out the Mountain Rescue when they got back.
3) Same club, same holiday, decided to climb Old Man of Coniston in
gale/downpour. Up NE ridge (?). Into cloud, trouble hanging on to rocks due to
wind. We chickened out again. Rest continued up but couldn't find way off, so
descended to the west and again took hours to walk round mountain back to
Coniston. We had learned our lesson and were not even considering calling MR
for a couple of weeks... ;-)
I'm sure that any experienced hill-walkers have similar stories. How about
posting a few so we can shake out collective heads and say "Tut-tut!"?
--
Ken Redman
please reply to: ken_r...@hotmail.com
KJR
IMHO, the 'best' way to 'do' Tryfan is:
1) Park at Ogwen Cottage or in the layby beneath the North ridge
2) Climb the North ridge. The further right you go, the harder it is!
3) Descend the South ridge to the col and follow the path up to the col on the
south ridge of Glyder Fach.
4) Turn right, cross Glyder Fach and Glyder Fawr (divert (carefully) to the
right to take a look at Castell y Gwynt: the main path skirts the summit to the
west) then down to the lake.
5) Turn right and descend the 'Devils Kitchen' path (very steep!) to the base of
Idwal Slabs and walk down the 'motorway' to Ogwen Cottage.
This route is reasonable even in wet weather with a SW wind, as Tryfan shelters
you for most of the ascent, you have your back to the weather for most of the
Glyderau and the descent is sheltered. The only bit into the teeth of the rain
is the south ridge of Tryfan.
Enjoy!
KJR
> I have lost count of the number of times I have been up or down the
> North Ridge of Tryfan during the last 40 years but I have never
> experienced such difficulties. If you take the easiest line you do
> not even need to take your hands out of your pockets for much of the
> route and nowhere is there anything on a par with the exit from the
> initial chimney on Bristly Ridge.
Seconded: there is no necessity for 'scrambling' on the North Ridge, although
the opportunities are there if you look for them!
Antony
Well, all I can say is I'm glad I didn't choose the easiest line.
Can you get up it without using your hands? Does anyone know of anyone who has?
Why do you keep going back there? Is it your 'practice hill' or something?
Michael Farthing
>I'm sure that any experienced hill-walkers have similar stories. How about
>posting a few so we can shake out collective heads and say "Tut-tut!"?
How about not doing?
Last time it ran to about 100 posts of self-congratulatory, aren't we
better than the plebs, unctuous, inverted machoism... [Runs out of
steam].
Isn't this precisely what the originator of this thread was afraid would
be the reaction to him? Wasn't he pleasantly surprised to find us
accessible people who recognised are own failings, rather than people
who gloated on other people's faults?
KJR
Oops! Sorry. Seemed like a good idea at the time... :-[
Paul Saunders
> Western (or Easy) gulley is not visible as such, but you can see the
> path emerging from its base going down at an apparent 45 degrees left
> to right across the high green stuff. The line of the path, continued
> upwards meets the summit ridge just left (north) of the top.
Oh good, so it is the one I thought it was, thanks.
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
Paul Saunders
> So is that 1024 *ft* x 768 *ft* for the "full size" version? ;)
Surely you mean metres, not feet?
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
Paul Brown
news:3B836B8C...@dummy.com...
>
> 4) Turn right, cross Glyder Fach and Glyder Fawr (divert
> (carefully) to the right to take a look at Castell y Gwynt: the
> main path skirts the summit to the west) then down to the lake.
And also take a peek at the interesting Cantilever stone near the summit
of Glyder Fach.
> This route is reasonable even in wet weather with a SW
> wind, as Tryfan shelters you for most of the ascent,
> you have your back to the weather for most of the
> Glyderau and the descent is sheltered.
^^^^^^
Nice to see somebody else using their proper name. :-)
--
Paul Brown
Katherine Rotherham
Gordon Harris wrote:
>
>
>
> Seriously, I have never had a good sense of balance, which has always
> made me uneasy on steep ground and close to exposed edges, and this has
> worsened in the last year or so. I am unsteady at times on solid flat
> ground now, especially if I stand abruptly from a crouch or sitting
> position, and have difficulty with my balance in darkness, i.e. I depend
> on visual reference too much.
> Besides - I'm a coward.
> --
> Gordon
Gordon, I have a similar problem. Recently I have found it sometimes
difficult to step off of a curb into the street, narrow, level pathways
bother me. Any idea what causes this?
Kathehrine
KJR
Anno domini?
MatSav
It's no good blaming Christ ;-) , are you sure you don't mean 'tempus
fugit'?
--
MatSav
Gordon Harris
>
>Gordon Harris wrote:
>>
>> Seriously, I have never had a good sense of balance, which has always
>> made me uneasy on steep ground and close to exposed edges, and this has
>> worsened in the last year or so. I am unsteady at times on solid flat
>> ground now, especially if I stand abruptly from a crouch or sitting
>> position, and have difficulty with my balance in darkness, i.e. I depend
>> on visual reference too much.
>
>difficult to step off of a curb into the street, narrow, level pathways
>bother me. Any idea what causes this?
>
suffer more from hay fever/catarrh more than I used to, which results in
partially blocked ear ducts.
The first serious spell of dizziness (revolving room feeling) was
diagnosed as high B.P., and I have been on medication ever since.
According to my G.P. this is exacerbated by a degree of stiffness in my
neck, which can cause the blood supply to the head to be momentarily
restricted if I incline my head in a certain way.
Did somebody mention getting older? :)
At least my knees aren't as knackered as some younger bloods' are....
--
Gordon
Richard Webb
>> This route is reasonable even in wet weather with a SW
>> wind, as Tryfan shelters you for most of the ascent,
>> you have your back to the weather for most of the
>> Glyderau and the descent is sheltered.
> ^^^^^^
>
>Nice to see somebody else using their proper name. :-)
>
Is it.... Never heard of them called 'Gludder vawer/Gludder vach'
Is Glyder an anglicisation? Could the original be Cludr/Gludr????
Or is this an exception to the usualy reliable Welsh orthography?
I have often worried about this (sad or what?)
Richard Webb
Richard Webb
>Seconded: there is no necessity for 'scrambling' on the North Ridge, although
>the opportunities are there if you look for them!
>
>--
>Ken Redman
>please reply to: ken_r...@hotmail.com
Top bit could be interesting then..
Richard Webb
Richard Webb
>I'm amazed that there aren't more accidents/fatalities on the hills. People do
>the stupidest things. IME:
Me too, after all I know some one who has:
Recently fallen off a peak in the Ecrins and pulled off the entire
rope bar the last man who had a direct belay on a dogy rock. My
Crampons balled up
Was avalanched in daft conditions once on The Grey Corries
Climbed Tower Ridge without a cag, or any waterproofs
Got hypothermia on the Pennine Way , walked alone as a first hillwalk.
Got lost on Liathach, Mullach nan Coireann, Radnor Forest and Milton
Keynes.
Carried skis up Ben Cleuch and got a 200m run then carried them down
again. (and ended up in the Scotsman)
Climbed a grade three gully with runners left in by a mate. Forgot his
runners, placed none of my own, and in ski boots.(forgot the plakkies)
Fallen off An Gearanach (Ring of 'Stowl') Arsing about in a gully.
Then fell in the burn below the falls.
Nearly fell off An Stuc (Lawers), bad navigation.
Sprained ankle on Ben MacDui , hobbled out to Braemar
Blundered into an IRA training area in Donegal.
Lost my pack in West Africa
Popped up Tom Dubh (Moine Mhor), leaving my girlfriend with my pack,
and then could not find her... (Oh for a GPS, bloody awkward top)
Took up Munro bagging to the exclusion of all other hills.
Did an icy hill in Glencoe with one crampon this winter.
etc.. etc...
These idiots must be curbed :-)
Richard Webb
http://www.sub3000.com
Paul Saunders
> Can you get up it without using your hands?
I'd be very surprised if anyone could do the top bit without hands. Adny?
> Why do you keep going back there? Is it your 'practice hill' or something?
I've always wished it was my practice hill, what a great place to keep fit.
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
Tim James
I can claim to be the originator of this post, and as long as the
stories aren't about me I'm not bothered !
Seriously though, maybe if the stories are self-deprecating it would
work ok ?
For instance......looking back on some photos recently, I noticed that
my first "big walk" - Skiddaw - was done in jog bottoms, trainers and
bobble hat. I looked a sight. It got me hooked though.
Tim
Trevor Dennis
><Snip> Cunning attempt to lure me into a life-threatening situation.
Oh make me feel bad why don't you?
>I know a little about Northern Girls blouses, in fact, it is in this
>area that I am something of an expert. ;-)
Is that another one of your allusions to being a fully functional old
bloke? ;-) Remember Mr Thornbury's warning, there may be young people
reading this group.
>A lady I introduced to hill-walking went on to do Tryfan and Crib Goch
>with another friend, and good luck to her, but she knows me better than
>anyone else does, and says I wouldn't want to do it.
From what you say, Crib Goch is no place for you, but I still feel
Tryfan, by the route I suggested, would be safe enough.
--
Trevor Dennis
Roger Chapman
from antony....@rbi.co.uk (Antony) contains these words:
> > I have lost count of the number of times I have been up or down the
> > North Ridge of Tryfan during the last 40 years but I have never
> > experienced such difficulties. If you take the easiest line you do
> > not even need to take your hands out of your pockets for much of the
> > route and nowhere is there anything on a par with the exit from the
> > initial chimney on Bristly Ridge.
> Well, all I can say is I'm glad I didn't choose the easiest line.
Do not mock. One day you too will be old and infirm. Anyway I look
forward to your TR when you pick the hardest line as a descent route. ;-)
> Can you get up it without using your hands? Does anyone know of anyone who has?
I can't even do Striding Edge without using my hands. However Adny
probably can while wearing wellies but even he would have a bit of
trouble with that final 6 feet.
> Why do you keep going back there? Is it your 'practice hill' or something?
Actually I rarely go there these days but it is a hill worth doing
again and again in preference to most other Welsh peaks. It is also
one of the Welsh 3000s which is the other reason I have been over it
so many times.
pete bland
<pv...@wildwales.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>> Western (or Easy) gulley is not visible as such, but you can see the
>> path emerging from its base going down at an apparent 45 degrees left
>> to right across the high green stuff. The line of the path, continued
>> upwards meets the summit ridge just left (north) of the top.
>
>Oh good, so it is the one I thought it was, thanks.
As it happens I was on Tryfan today (Wed) doing the Bochlwyd
horseshoe, so I checked out whether my memory was entirely correct as
to how to enter Western Gulley. Needless to say the memory was a bit
faulty.
You can in fact get into it direct from the summit (as Paul originally
suggeste), though not by going west from there. You have to go approx
320 degrees (Mag) from Adam & Eve across the boulder plateau to pick
up a scrambly descent which leads you into the top of the gulley. To
gain the gulley bed you have to traverse a slab - easy when dry. This
point is no more than 150m from the top - not measured.
You can still get into the gulley by going more or less north to the
first shallow notch, and then turn left (west) and in thick weather
this might be a bit easier - a positive identification of where you
are heading.
Having said all that, we ignored the gulley and continued down the
south ridge, which has some excellent scrambling, and then up Bristly
ridge. A lot of people out today, including a Canadian retired couple,
originally from UK, who needed coaxing up some of the more exposed
bits of Bristly.
Paul Saunders
> > Is Glyder an anglicisation? Could the original be Cludr/Gludr????
>
> Possibly... To be honest I've never thought of it before.
I just started a new thread to answer this (it's gone right off the original
topic now) called "Glyderau?", didn't you see it?
> However, the point was that the correct plural of Glyder had been
> used.
But Glyder is an Anglicisation, so there is no "correct" plural.
> Welsh makes the plural in some cases by adding 'au' (pronounced
> eye or uh) to a word.
The key phrase there being "some cases". There are many different plural
endings in Welsh, for example "-ion", "-iau", "-on", "-oedd", "-iaid",
"-ydd", "-od", "-wyr", "-ni", "-dai" and so on, and those are just a random
selection. I agree though, that "-au" is one of the more common plural
endings.
> Thus the plural is not Glyders but Glyderau.
But there's no such word as Glyder in Welsh so whoever thought of Glyderau
was just making it up, probably basing it on the Carneddau which are right
next door. The difference is that Carnedd really is a Welsh word and
Carneddau is the correct pluralisation of it.
Since it's just an invention anyway, you could just as easily call them
Glyderion, Glyderoedd or Glyderiaid.
While we're at it, how about the "correct" name of Snowdon? What about
Snowdonoedd? Or Snowdoniaid? How about the Brecon Beaconnau? ;-)
I'm not picking on you personally, by the way, just pointing out that if
we're so keen to use the correct plural, we should revert to the original
Welsh name first, which (see my other post) appears most likely to be
Gludair, with the plural Gludairiau.
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
KJR
> Anno domini?
MatSav wrote:
> It's no good blaming Christ ;-) , are you sure you don't mean 'tempus
> fugit'?
Dunno! It's all Greek to me (Latin to everyone else...)
Semper in faecibus sumus. Sole profundum variat.
KJR
> The first serious spell of dizziness (revolving room feeling) was
> diagnosed as high B.P., and I have been on medication ever since.
> According to my G.P. this is exacerbated by a degree of stiffness in my
> neck, which can cause the blood supply to the head to be momentarily
> restricted if I incline my head in a certain way.
Yep. Same problem. Happens when I turn my head to look over my left shoulder.
It's a pain when reversing the car.
Luckily it's not when looking behind to the right, as I also ride a motorbike!
KJR
> However Adny
> probably can while wearing wellies but even he would have a bit of
> trouble with that final 6 feet.
I don't count just resting your hands on rocks for balance as scrambling: I tend
to do that on the level! In my lexicon, it's only scrambling if you have to
pull up on handholds. I also tend to ignore them two big rocks at the top of
Tryfan as you generally have to walk up to them over the bodies of all the
walkers trying to scramble up them! ;-)
Paul Saunders
> if we're so keen to use the correct plural, we should revert
> to the original Welsh name first, which appears most likely
> to be Gludair, with the plural Gludairiau.
Incidentally, although I personally think Glyderau is wrong, it does seem to
be accepted, even amongst Welsh speakers, so whatever the rights or wrongs
I'm prepared to use it for the sake of consistency.
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
KJR
I started calling them the Glyderau after being soundly chastised (!) by a
native Welsh speaker for calling them the Glyders. So what did she know?
Roy Hill
news:3b84062d...@news.u-net.com...
> Blundered into an IRA training area in Donegal.
!
Antony
> The message <b610d1b8.0108...@posting.google.com>
> from antony....@rbi.co.uk (Antony) contains these words:
>
> > > I have lost count of the number of times I have been up or down the
> > > North Ridge of Tryfan during the last 40 years but I have never
> > > experienced such difficulties. If you take the easiest line you do
> > > not even need to take your hands out of your pockets for much of the
> > > route and nowhere is there anything on a par with the exit from the
> > > initial chimney on Bristly Ridge.
>
> > Well, all I can say is I'm glad I didn't choose the easiest line.
>
> Do not mock. One day you too will be old and infirm. Anyway I look
> forward to your TR when you pick the hardest line as a descent route. ;-)
I mock not! And I'm not that young either (37). And anyway, I'm one of
these boring gits that seems to be too damn thorough and not get into
the kind of mess others do - which prob means that when I do F.U.
it'll be serious and you won't be reading any TRs afterwards
>
> > Can you get up it without using your hands? Does anyone know of anyone who has?
>
> I can't even do Striding Edge without using my hands. However Adny
> probably can while wearing wellies but even he would have a bit of
> trouble with that final 6 feet.
>
> > Why do you keep going back there? Is it your 'practice hill' or something?
>
> Actually I rarely go there these days but it is a hill worth doing
> again and again in preference to most other Welsh peaks. It is also
> one of the Welsh 3000s which is the other reason I have been over it
> so many times.
So, have you done em all in one go a few times or something? I'm not
sure of you're reference to the Welsh 3000s otherwise
Antony
Roger Chapman
from antony....@rbi.co.uk (Antony) contains these words:
> > Actually I rarely go there these days but it is a hill worth doing
> > again and again in preference to most other Welsh peaks. It is also
> > one of the Welsh 3000s which is the other reason I have been over it
> > so many times.
> So, have you done em all in one go a few times or something? I'm not
> sure of you're reference to the Welsh 3000s otherwise
Why else would I mention them?
Richard Webb
OK clever clogses out there...
How then , do you hold your Leki Poles ???? :-)
Richard Webb
http://www.sub3000.com
PS or dial up on your mobile, change mode on your GPS , build a
cairn........etc
Richard Webb
!!!!! !
Croughnalough, Malin Head
A fine piece of coastline with steep slopes and Exemoor type valleys
blind to the sea. Quite a remote place.
Someb ody had a fire down there... There was smoke blowing up from the
shore over the cliffs and blowing across the moor.
The fire was quickly put out, I saw nobody down there by the fire.
A week later a boat was rescued there when its engine packed up.
Several men were arrested in an armed camp below the cliffs,
practicing clandestine landings.
I expect it was them with the fire.
Needless to say I had considered the possibility of training areas on
obscure hills, and had a strict policy of not investigating anything
strange. In case of disappearing.
It could have been a still, but possibly something more sinister,
which was probably the case in light of the arrests.
Croughnalough is worth a visit, a fine piece of coastline and Irelands
northernmost Marilyn.
We looked for Islay in vain, too much smoke?
Richard Webb
http://www.sub3000.com
Paul Saunders
> I started calling them the Glyderau after being soundly chastised (!) by a
> native Welsh speaker for calling them the Glyders. So what did she know?
That's what I'd like to know too. Why are Welsh speakers happy to use
"Glyderau"? Don't they realise Glyder is an anglicisation?
Mind you, she'd probably chastise you anyway, just for speaking English!
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
Carol Haynes
> All this stuff about not using your hands on certain hills:
>
> OK clever clogses out there...
>
> How then , do you hold your Leki Poles ???? :-)
Easy - put 'em in your sack on the rocky bits!
--
Carol
www.playoutdoors.org.uk
Strider
type this:
> For instance......looking back on some photos recently, I noticed that
> my first "big walk" - Skiddaw - was done in jog bottoms, trainers and
> bobble hat. I looked a sight. It got me hooked though.
>
It's ok Tim, you can take them off now :-)
--
Strider
Are you a Klingon, or is that a turtle on your head?
Adrian Marsh Tupper
from gri...@crux.u-net.com (Richard Webb) contains these words:
> Got lost on Liathach, Mullach nan Coireann, Radnor Forest and Milton
> Keynes.
I can understand being lost in Milton Keynes but on Liathach you have
to try hard to get lost.
--
Adrian
www.highscotland.co.uk
John Kirton
>>>
>>> Seriously, I have never had a good sense of balance, which has always
>>
>suffer more from hay fever/catarrh more than I used to, which results in
>partially blocked ear ducts.
Though never bothered with balance as a younger guy, I've begun to
have a problem over the past ten years, highlighted by having to
chicken out of the descent of Stirrup Crag on Yewbarrow.
After suspecting that a growing allergy problem with sinus discharge
and associated feelings of pressure in my ears might be linked, I
tried taking a Clarityn tablet on the morning of my walk. This helped
a great deal and I now use this medication routinely - with the
blessing of my GP.
I don't assume that it will work for others but it is worth
consideration - it has certainly taken some pressure off me,
especially when walking with others.
For personal reflections on aspects of UK contemporary life see:
"Views from the Hills" at http://www.users.waitrose.com/~opoman/
Roger Chapman
from antony....@rbi.co.uk (Antony) contains these words:
> And I'm not that young either (37).
You are from where I am 20 years on. I first climbed Tryfan before
you were born and was probably at my most active as a walker between
24 and 34. By 37 I was definitely past my best and it has been all
downhill (figuratively) since then. ;-)
Richard Webb
<adrian...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>The message <3b84062d...@news.u-net.com>
> from gri...@crux.u-net.com (Richard Webb) contains these words:
>
>> Got lost on Liathach, Mullach nan Coireann, Radnor Forest and Milton
>> Keynes.
>
>I can understand being lost in Milton Keynes but on Liathach you have
>to try hard to get lost.
Not if you come down the blind ridge from Spidean a'Coire Liath.
One of those ridges does not connect with the Fasarinen.
Richard Webb
Paul Saunders
> By 37 I was definitely past my best and it has been all
> downhill (figuratively) since then. ;-)
Damn, I'm only 42 and I thought I was just getting started...
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
Adrian Marsh Tupper
from gri...@crux.u-net.com (Richard Webb) contains these words:
> >I can understand being lost in Milton Keynes but on Liathach you have
> >to try hard to get lost.
> Not if you come down the blind ridge from Spidean a'Coire Liath.
> One of those ridges does not connect with the Fasarinen.
In which case you go down and down. Not where you want to be. But
not lost. A bit like Milton Keynes really.
--
Adrian
Gordon Harris
>Gordon Harris <gor...@g3snx.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Seriously, I have never had a good sense of balance, which has always
>>>
>>I usually associate balance problems with the inner ear
>After suspecting that a growing allergy problem with sinus discharge
>and associated feelings of pressure in my ears might be linked, I
>tried taking a Clarityn tablet on the morning of my walk. This helped
>a great deal and I now use this medication routinely - with the
>blessing of my GP.
>
I also take Clarityne when suffering the allergy problem - the only ones
approved to be taken with BP tablets AIUI.
I used to take sinutabs for the sinus problem until I realised they
contained a decongestant.
--
Gordon
Roger Chapman
from "Paul Saunders" <pv...@wildwales.fsnet.co.uk> contains these words:
> > By 37 I was definitely past my best and it has been all
> > downhill (figuratively) since then. ;-)
> Damn, I'm only 42 and I thought I was just getting started...
Its all in the mind. ;-)