Slippery Boots

[thescullster]

I have been seriously disappointed by the lack of traction on a
pair of Brasher boots.
Any sloppy mud or slippery rocks are as bad as an ice sheet.

Is this typical of modern walking boots and the materials used for
the soles. Or are Brashers just basically cr@p?

I don't remember my old boots being this dangerous, but am not
sure what the soles were.

Thanks

Phil


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[PeterC]

On Thu, 3 Dec 2020 22:17:55 +0000 (GMT+00:00), thescullster wrote:

> I have been seriously disappointed by the lack of traction on a
> pair of Brasher boots.
> Any sloppy mud or slippery rocks are as bad as an ice sheet.
>
> Is this typical of modern walking boots and the materials used for
> the soles. Or are Brashers just basically cr@p?
>
> I don't remember my old boots being this dangerous, but am not
> sure what the soles were.
>
> Thanks
>
> Phil

There's a trade-off between rate of wear and grip ('60s small Hondas and the
art of horizontal motorcycling). Hard soles skid (footspin) but last - 1600
miles plus from Merrell MOAB - and grippy soles don't - about 500 miles from
Hi Tec /and/ a split sole!
Vibram seems to have perfected rapid wear and poor grip in the same
compound. I'd love to re-sole shoes with some trad from a car tyre (would
need to be fabric braced) to see what happens.
Consider the reaction if vehicle tyres slipped like your soles and lasted
for 2000 miles!
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

[Nick Maclaren]

In article <13ue74t4celsk$.qq1paokv...@40tude.net>,

PeterC <giraffe...@homecall.co.uk> wrote:
>On Thu, 3 Dec 2020 22:17:55 +0000 (GMT+00:00), thescullster wrote:
>
>> I have been seriously disappointed by the lack of traction on a
>> pair of Brasher boots.
>> Any sloppy mud or slippery rocks are as bad as an ice sheet.
>>
>> Is this typical of modern walking boots and the materials used for
>> the soles. Or are Brashers just basically cr@p?
>

>There's a trade-off between rate of wear and grip ('60s small Hondas and the
>art of horizontal motorcycling). Hard soles skid (footspin) but last - 1600
>miles plus from Merrell MOAB - and grippy soles don't - about 500 miles from
>Hi Tec /and/ a split sole!

Yes. And, for people like me (who need flexible boots and the ability
to bend at the toes up to 90 degrees), sole and upper splitting is the
main reason that boots expire.

>Vibram seems to have perfected rapid wear and poor grip in the same
>compound. I'd love to re-sole shoes with some trad from a car tyre (would
>need to be fabric braced) to see what happens.
>Consider the reaction if vehicle tyres slipped like your soles and lasted
>for 2000 miles!

Worn car tyres make excellent sandals, as I can witness.

However, back to the OP, grip in most mud is usually more affected
by the tread design than the material. And, yes, a lot of modern
tread designs are intended to look pretty rather than actually work.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

[PeterC]

The tread will grip on materials that are firm enough not to shear but are
softer than the soles. On hard surfaces, the surface grips the sole by
deforming it at v. small scale, so if the sole is hard it slips.
I have a pair of shoes with slick soles that don't skid on a concrete path
that is a tad 'green'; all of my cleated footwear skids.
A lot of wear takes place by the movement of the sole on the surface - not
skidding but the surface digging in and out and 'machining. the compound.
The more deformable the sole the more it is abraded.
Car tyres seem to be capable of resisting this process whilst still gripping
well. I've no idea of the specific loads etc. (x/unit) on the two - I'd have
though that the tyre has more 'abuse'.

[Nick Maclaren]

In article <dpw0d73tksho$.p5ylz3zg...@40tude.net>,

PeterC <giraffe...@homecall.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Car tyres seem to be capable of resisting this process whilst still gripping
>well. I've no idea of the specific loads etc. (x/unit) on the two - I'd have
>though that the tyre has more 'abuse'.

Rolling wheels have a lot less abuse, actually - it's only people who
regularly skid their wheels that abuse them more. Most people scrub
their soles and heels when walking.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

[PeterC]

There's acceleration, including increasing speed, braking (often worse - bus
stops have more wear on the road before the stop than after it) and, of
course, steering. A front-wheel drive car has loading, braking and steering
all on two wheels - probably the nearest to walking, being 'two-wheel'
loading.

[Nick Maclaren]

In article <t9a9x86q7yt7$.1pmudzou...@40tude.net>,

PeterC <giraffe...@homecall.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>>Car tyres seem to be capable of resisting this process whilst still gripping
>>>well. I've no idea of the specific loads etc. (x/unit) on the two - I'd have
>>>though that the tyre has more 'abuse'.
>>
>> Rolling wheels have a lot less abuse, actually - it's only people who
>> regularly skid their wheels that abuse them more. Most people scrub
>> their soles and heels when walking.
>

>There's acceleration, including increasing speed, braking (often worse - bus
>stops have more wear on the road before the stop than after it) and, of
>course, steering. A front-wheel drive car has loading, braking and steering
>all on two wheels - probably the nearest to walking, being 'two-wheel'
>loading.

I am aware of that, and my point still stands. Mere frictional force
does not increase wear - only relative movement does. Yes, that
starts before full-blown skidding, but low rates of acceleration,
braking and cornering (as are usual nowadays) aren't a major factor.
Also, while I remember when wheel scrubbing due to cornering was the
norm, it's a long time ago now, and most cars are essentially immune
to it.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

[David]

On Thu, 03 Dec 2020 22:17:55 +0000, thescullster wrote:

> I have been seriously disappointed by the lack of traction on a
> pair of Brasher boots.
> Any sloppy mud or slippery rocks are as bad as an ice sheet.
>
> Is this typical of modern walking boots and the materials used for
> the soles. Or are Brashers just basically cr@p?
>
> I don't remember my old boots being this dangerous, but am not
> sure what the soles were.
>
> Thanks
>
> Phil

Out of interest how old are these boots?

I have a small selection of Brasher boots but they are all a good few
years old now.
The standard Brasher (used to?) have their own soles but one pair I bought
about a decade (or so) ago has Vibram soles, as does a much more recent
one.
Latest is Hillmaster II GTX which I bought in brown leather in 2015 for
something which would look smart enough as a "dress shoe" but also do for
global travelling. This has Vibram soles.

I don't tend to do really rough walking but they have seemed OK to me as
far as I can remember.

I normally have a variant on the Hillmaster but the strange old ones are
Towa GTX and made in China. Massive amount of rubber over the toes. Look
nothing like Hillmasters and are much heavier.
Ah.
<https://www.livefortheoutdoors.com/gear-reviews/footwear/articles/Gear-
Reviews/Search-Results/Footwear/Brasher-Towa-GTX-2009>.

I've worn Brasher for more than a decade (possibly 2) (oops! see below!)
because the last is one of the few to fit my feet.
I think I bought my first pair in the factory shop when they had just
started up.
Yikes!
That would make it in the 1980s.
Merged with Berghaus in 1996 apparently.
By which time I had bought more than one pair IIRC.
Time flies, etc.

<https://www.brasher.co.uk/heritage>
Looks as though it is no longer maintained but an interesting read.
Confirms that I had an early boot which was just called the Brasher before
they started calling them Hillmasters.

Ummm....I digress.....but I have always bought them because of the mission
statement to build a boot which was a cross between a traditional walking
boot and a trainer. Which they seem to have done.
So for my purposes they don't seem crap, but I don't know how you use them
or what boots you had before.


Cheers



Dave R


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