Hardknott and Wrynose Passes
Stuey
being very steep when I cycled it many years ago, but wasn't a driver at the
time, so I didn't take too much notice. Maybe we might need to get out and
walk up the steep bits?
Should I find an alternative route instead?
Paul Rooney
Engage 1st gear *early* and you should be OK. We did it years ago in a
fully laden 13 seater Austin J2 - my Dad always left it too late
changing down, and the handbrake was never good enough to hold it. We
always had to get out and chock the wheels.
--
Paul
68 Wainwrights
http://paulrooney.netfirms.com/myweb/index.htm
Updated 13 May 03
Stuart Baldwin
<stuey...@btopenworld.com> wrote:
>Is this road too steep for a half laden 17 seater LDV minibus? I recall it
>being very steep when I cycled it many years ago, but wasn't a driver at the
>time, so I didn't take too much notice. Maybe we might need to get out and
>walk up the steep bits?
They shouldn't present any problems for well-maintained modern
vehicles but there are a few places where it is *very* steep and
*very* twisty. If you get stuck behind another vehicle you will find
it quite useful for your handbrake to be able to hold your vehicle on
a 1-in-3-and-a-half gradient (because there may be another vehicle
behind even if you are good at reversing round hairpin bends).
One thing is for sure, you won't be wanting to stop to let anyone out
at the steep bits!
I must admit that I don't always go that way when I have the
opportunity, but I can't resist doing them occasionally.
>Should I find an alternative route instead?
Nah! Assuming that you will be arriving from the east, by the time
you have reached Wrynose you will have had plenty of practice on
narrow winding roads in Little Langdale. In fact I would say that the
minibus will be more of a liability in some earlier places, which are
probably narrower than most of Wrynose and Hardknott because of the
stone walls.
I don't know what the situation is now, but the summer before F&M (URW
Expedition 2) I drove these passes at 11pm at night and discovered
that the sheep all sleep on the road, presumably because it is still
warm from the day's sun.
Sue & Bob Hobden
"Stuey" wrote in message
It's not just steep (1 in 3) for miles it's also rather narrow in places so
your problem will not just be the road but others coming the other way.
Watch out for white knuckles and red faces with staring eyes, they are the
ones that didn't know what they were getting themselves into.
Ensure your vehicle is in excellent condition (brakes, gear selection,
engine), take your time, drive very carefully, anticipate gear selection
well, and you will enjoy the drive. Not so sure about your passengers
though, I've had people scream when they saw the drop their side.
I've even driven it with a car load in the snow, now that was interesting.
:-)
--
Regards
Bob
Use a useful Screen Saver...
http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/
and find intelligent life amongst the stars, there's bugger all down here.
Robert Hill
"Stuey" <stuey...@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:bd7m1d$pqcgo$1...@ID-57053.news.dfncis.de...
vehicle mechanics are somewhat improved from the 60s and 70s
when brake fade
was an issue. Now, if you were taking an old Commer van, or
Bedford camper, then one might have to be a tad circumspect
in the winter.....
Robert
Stuey
news:bd7m1d$pqcgo$1...@ID-57053.news.dfncis.de...
> being very steep when I cycled it many years ago, but wasn't a driver at
the
> time, so I didn't take too much notice. Maybe we might need to get out and
> walk up the steep bits?
Thank you all for your responses.... we'll go for it!
Stuey :o)
The Reid
>Is this road too steep for a half laden 17 seater LDV minibus? I recall it
>being very steep when I cycled it many years ago, but wasn't a driver at the
>time, so I didn't take too much notice. Maybe we might need to get out and
>walk up the steep bits?
Just hope you dont meet a council roadmending lorry!
Remember to pull over into passing places from time to time to allow
faster traffic to overtake. As your that little bit wider have a
banksman ready for awkward reverses.
IMHO you will struggle a bit on the places that are both steep and
very hairpinned, but at least (I assume) you have rear wheel drive.
If you go through Langdale you *will* get stuck a few times in the
narrow bits between walls, especially in summer. Worse for passing
than the passes IMO.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Wasdale, landscape photos, London & the Thames path "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk"
Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" (see web for email)
steve Wilcox
"The Reid" wrote
> Just hope you dont meet a council roadmending lorry!
I once encountered an army Bedford 4 wheel drive lorry whilst crossing
Hardknott from Eskdale. Luckily I was almost at the Cockley Junction and
there were plenty of passing spaces, but he was filling the entire width of
the road even there. Wouldn't have liked to have met him 5 or 10 minutes
earlier . . . . . .
--
Peace !
Steve Wilcox
"If Whisky Don't Kill Me I'll Live 'Til I Die"
Simon Challands
"Stuey" <stuey...@btopenworld.com> wrote:
Brave man! I'm a coward, and have always avoided it... Last time I went to
Wasdale (ages ago - lazy sod that I am) I walked all the way from Honister
instead (although since I'm coming from the north when I go there I go
the coastal way instead, which is still probably longer).
--
Simon Challands, creator of
The Acorn Elite Pages: http://elite.acornarcade.com/
Three Dimensional Encounters: http://www.3dfrontier.fsnet.co.uk/
Russ Clare
<stuey...@btopenworld.com> writes
>> Is this road too steep for a half laden 17 seater LDV minibus?
>Thank you all for your responses.... we'll go for it!
Well, FWIW, here's a contrary view.
Consider the following:
Narrow lanes, steep hairpins, limited opportunities to pass oncoming
vehicles (especially with vehicles following behind), high traffic
volume in the height of the tourist season, other drivers with a range
of abilities to deal with challenging road conditions.
All of these factors can be satisfactorily negotiated by a competent
driver in a car. Larger vehicles - simply because of size and limited
manoeuvrability - introduce an additional, potential hazard. So, IMO it
is inadvisable to take a minibus over W & H passes.
I have driven over these passes countless times in various cars. I now
drive a VW Transporter, and I will not take it over W & H because of its
limitations on steep bends. With an unrestricted run it might be OK,
but such ideal circumstances cannot be relied on, and there is always
the risk of creating difficulties for myself as well as other drivers.
If I want to take the van to Eskdale from the south-east (as I did last
w/e), I'll go via Broughton and Ulpha - it does not put that much time
on. There are a couple of steep bends going out of Ulpha, but of lesser
severity than W & H, and the risk of meeting oncoming vehicles is also
far less.
Perhaps some may regard this as overly serious and a bit po-faced, but
there you go - that's my view.
----
Russ Clare
RJ Webb
outing in my current car and 2) involved rescuing a volvo that got
stuck near the top. Helped them do a 37 point turn, thankfully on the
summit.
Richard Webb
Phil Cook
> IMO it is inadvisable to take a minibus over W & H passes.
Mountain Goat do it all the time.
http://www.lakes-pages.com/day.html
This is one of their buses http://www.lakes-pages.com/3MINIBUS.JPG
I must admit the biggest problem is going to be the lack of co-operation from
other roadusers. So probably best to avoid busy times, whenever they are.
--
Phil Cook
Jhimmy
coming the opposite way that you start to pray!
I seem to remember the bonnet of my car angled much, much higher then my
head so I couldn't see in front of me on some places.
very early morning or late at night best times.
Jhimmy.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.491 / Virus Database: 290 - Release Date: 18/06/2003
acpac
> "Stuey" <stuey...@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
> news:bd7m1d$pqcgo$1...@ID-57053.news.dfncis.de...
> > Is this road too steep for a half laden 17 seater LDV minibus?
I assume this is a private party of responsible adults you are taking
- if so, I think my attitude would be the same - go for it! If you're
taking a school or organised group for which you are responsible, then
presumably you would carry out some form of risk assessment before
leaving base, which might even involve attempting the journey in an
empty bus first. I have recently read quite a bit about safety of
children on educational / off-site activities, and the "objective"
standard of care is pretty high. Like it or not, the regime of risk
assessment is here to stay and the media/courts will give anyone a
hard time if they ignore current "best practice".
Tim.
no spam please
Russ Clare
<urw...@p-t-cook.freeserveSPAMTRAP.co.uk> writes
>Mountain Goat do it all the time.
Fair enough, but presumably the drivers know the road/have local
knowledge of likely traffic volumes etc/lots of experience in taking the
vehicles over the passes. I don't think the same applies to the OP.
--
Russ Clare
The Reid
>very early morning or late at night best times.
I did it at night once and never saw another car, it was a full moon
lit clear sky and I got across in record time. No "gripped" poor
drivers, no dawdlers not using passing places to allow overtaking, no
tractors, no t**** refusing to reverse.
Stuey
news:62127398.03062...@posting.google.com...
> "Stuey" <stuey...@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:<bd8o92$p0u8m$1...@ID-57053.news.dfncis.de>...
> > "Stuey" <stuey...@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
> > news:bd7m1d$pqcgo$1...@ID-57053.news.dfncis.de...
> > > Is this road too steep for a half laden 17 seater LDV minibus?
>
> I assume this is a private party of responsible adults you are taking
> - if so, I think my attitude would be the same - go for it!
Yep, a private party of 7 responsible adults. Thanks for your very valid
points re school trips etc. though.
Stuey :o)
Boo
wheels on even quite reasonable gradients. The only time I drove it to
Wasdale I wimped out of the passes, is there a special technique for
driving up gradients as steep ast that ? Or do you just flatten it in a
low gear and hope for the best ?
--
Boo
Jhimmy
The main problem on these passes is the hairpin bends. If a driver coming
the other way refuses to give room, it means a 34% gradient hill start (if
you're going upward) and the clutch does not like that one little bit.
A tip, the inside of most of the bends are the steepest part (possibly even
40% gradient). Try and take the long way round.
Jhimmy
Robert Hill
"Russ Clare" <cl...@rjc1.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:PaUoQFAr...@rjc1.demon.co.uk...
gotta a half full (with adults) LDV minibus worrying about
whether he should take it over these passes. As Phil Cook
correctly states Mountain Goat do it all the time. It just
ain't rocket science you know. There seems to be some
mystique about these two passes but only the narrowness at
Little Langdale will be a hinderance. And that is like the
lanes in Devon etc... We've just recently shot (and I mean
shot) over them in 2 Jeep Grand Cherokees thru to Wasdale in
30 mins.
Robert
The Reid
Its the combination of tight steep bends and bumpy surface tending to
break traction, especially in first gear and in the wet (which it
usually is, as poorly drained. You will have to floor it in first
quite often as that's the only way the car will go forward at all on
the steepest bits (even a 2 litre[1]). I suspect your first gear, and
mine, are reasonably well matched to the torque of your engine, so it
should work out OK.
One good technique is the obvious one of waiting at the bottom of
steep bits until nothing is coming, then storm up, but in summer there
may be wimpy drivers scattered all over the place.
Another is to make sure your handbrake works :-)
I have yet to decide whether the traction control should be on or off,
if its just braking any wheels that start to spin, that's one thing,
but if its detecting a slide and reducing engine power that's another.
My current thinking is "Hey, I have testicles, switch it off!" :-)
1] a "revvy" 2 litre, not ideal for this sort of thing, most
turbo-diesels perform better in this area.
The Reid
>We've just recently shot (and I mean
>shot) over them in 2 Jeep Grand Cherokees thru to Wasdale in
>30 mins.
Although I generally agree with you, they were of course ideal
vehicles for the job.
MP
"The Reid" <DONT_USE...@fell-walker.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ghalfvcqkvmto6l7q...@4ax.com...
I have driven the passes on several occasions now in a number of different
cars new and old and never had a problem other than the idiots that won't
give way to vehicles coming up. Mind you I wouldn't recommend it to the
faint hearted, but those who like a little excitement in their driving go
for it except on Bank Holidays.
MP
The Reid
>Mind you I wouldn't recommend it to the
>faint hearted, but those who like a little excitement in their driving go
>for it except on Bank Holidays.
just about sums it up, I think.
It can of course be problematic in winter:-
"http://www.fellwalk.co.uk/esk140.htm"
only just remembered I had a photo, its not one of the twiddly bits
though.
Stuey
news:3efa1dbe$0$7749$fa0f...@lovejoy.zen.co.uk...
> Do you know, I'm a bit amazed by all this gough. This chap's
> gotta a half full (with adults) LDV minibus worrying about
> whether he should take it over these passes.
Not "worrying" really... just asking advice from those in the know, that's
all. Funnily enough, we're from Devon, so are well aware of rural roads,
it's just the steepness and twistiness. Thanks for all your advice. We're
off tomorrow and should do Hardknott on Saturday night..
Stuey :o)
Simon Challands
"Stuey" <stuey...@btopenworld.com> wrote:
It's the risk of other drivers that's always put me off Hardknott and
Wrynose (and the fact that I don't really trust my car, despite the garage
claiming it's fixed now. Again.) It's a bit daft, really, since I'm quite
happy on every other road and pass in the Lakes, even if they are easier.
Robert Hill
Actually they're not that ideal. Brakes are poor,
roadholding agricultural. A Transit would have been
superior.....Flogged the Jeep 2 weeks ago!
Robert
Fran
> Is this road too steep for a half laden 17 seater LDV minibus?
>
about 200yds or so. The main problem is not so much the
gradient as the total lack of passing space. The road is far
too narrow and twisty for your 'bus, unless you can guarantee
being the only vehicle using it.
--
Fran
The email address in the headers is now a spamtrap; however
ynyschwith at lineone dot net (no spaces) will reach me.
Fran
> IMO it
> is inadvisable to take a minibus over W & H passes.
>
Fran
> Do you know, I'm a bit amazed by all this gough. This chap's
> gotta a half full (with adults) LDV minibus worrying about
> whether he should take it over these passes. As Phil Cook
> correctly states Mountain Goat do it all the time.
>
vehicles? My 9 seater LDV failed miserably on Hardknott, not
because it's too steep but because there simply isn't room to
pass comfortably. What's supposed to happen if two minibuses
meet, coming from opposite directions? The road isn't wide
enough and the twists and turns are practically guaranteed to
cause problems. The day we attempted it there was a Fiesta
stuck up ahead and other vehicles were having problems passing
it. That was what decided us to backtrack while we still could,
because the driver who'd told us about it was driving a Volvo
and he'd had difficulty getting past it even though he knew the
road very well.
The Reid
> Brakes are poor, roadholding agricultural.
Typical 4x4 then. but suspension geometry and all driven wheels + low
gears make them ideal for these passes.
Robert Hill
I'm not convinced. The Jeep is heavy, cumbersome, thirsty,
has agricultural suspension and brakes. Hops all over the
place. I did 50,000 miles in it during the last 2 years. An
Astra diesel van would have left it for dead on these
passes. I've seen sense and gone Bosch. Looking back on the
30 cars i've owned in the past umm
25 yrs, Bosch has always been best. Dunno why I bothered
with anything else. Whatever else the Krauts know how to
build things....only this car was built in California and
then shipped to Germany for inspection, and the Jeep was
built in Austria....and then finished off in Legoland
methinks!
The Reid
>
>I'm not convinced. The Jeep is heavy, cumbersome, thirsty,
>has agricultural suspension and brakes. Hops all over the
>place. I did 50,000 miles in it during the last 2 years.
I'll be hiring one in a few weeks so i'll let you know!
So far I have only driven Wranglers, which I like. But I wouldn't want
to drive 50.000 miles on tarmac in them. Its not what they are for.
The foot parking brake (Spanish models) , for instance, is great for
making sure the brake is fully on when on a steep slope but "amusing"
in traffic, to say the least. But Wranglers are not for traffic, they
are for bouncing across deserts and down muddy tracks where the long
throw "agricultural" suspension comes into its own. In UK, with nearly
all roads tarmac, I cant see the point in a 4x4, unless you have a
boat etc to tow.or if you drive over Hardnott or similar every day.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Wasdale,landscape photos,freeware,London & the Thames path etc. "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk"