I walking a sport
carl
Is walking a sport?
I am talking about mountain/hill walking here of course.
I think intuitively of a sport as having two attributes,
1. Physical activity
2. Competition
This makes competitive road walking a sport, but we can't class all
walking in this category as then nipping down to the pub would also be
a sport.
Chess isn't a sport because it ain't physical (if we ignore the
kicking under the tables).
Travelling across mountain landscapes is a sport if it involves
competition, Fell Running, Orienteering, Mountain Marathons.
I would consider training for sports to be itself part of a sport, but
that activity would often not include competition. So, if you are
kicking a ball against a wall, training for football, you could be
involved in a sporting activity.
Can walking across mountains, then be considered part of a sporting
activity, or does it actively need to be part of training.
Walking if following the rules requires at least one foot to be on the
ground at all times, so most mountain walkers would be disqualified at
the first haul up a rock. So we cant look to traditional competitive
walking for any help.
Climbing is a sport, or at least most people view climbing as a sport,
it can involve competition, but most often does not.
I don't get any exercise except for my weekend jaunts into the hills,
the rest of the time is spent sitting in front of a computer. Like
most people I suppose I would like to be considered 'sporty', all this
sports kit that gets sold to couch potatoes shows that most people
want to be seen as sporty. If walking isn't a sport then I've had it!
What is your opinion
Is walking a sport?
Yay or Nay
Peter Clinch
> Travelling across mountain landscapes is a sport if it involves
> competition, Fell Running, Orienteering, Mountain Marathons.
This ignores the extent to which a sport can be a competition against
yourself, and/or with more intangible goals than crossing a finishing
line first or going fastest.
Think of it as a competition with yourself to have the best experience
you can...
If that makes it a sport, it's a sport. If it doesn't, I don't really
care as long as I'm having a good time.
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
The Reids
>I think intuitively of a sport as having two attributes,
>1. Physical activity
>2. Competition
yep
>This makes competitive road walking a sport,
yep
>but we can't class all walking in this category as then nipping down to the pub would also be
>a sport.
thats a hobby
>Chess isn't a sport because it ain't physical (if we ignore the
>kicking under the tables).
yep
>Travelling across mountain landscapes is a sport if it involves
>competition, Fell Running, Orienteering, Mountain Marathons.
yep
>I would consider training for sports to be itself part of a sport, but
>that activity would often not include competition. So, if you are
>kicking a ball against a wall, training for football, you could be
>involved in a sporting activity.
no, your just training, as in eating a suitable diet for sport isnt
itself sport.
>Can walking across mountains, then be considered part of a sporting
>activity, or does it actively need to be part of training.
Its not training, its not sport.
>Walking if following the rules requires at least one foot to be on the
>ground at all times, so most mountain walkers would be disqualified at
>the first haul up a rock. So we cant look to traditional competitive
>walking for any help.
nope
>Climbing is a sport, or at least most people view climbing as a sport,
>it can involve competition, but most often does not.
some people do and the term "sport climbing" exists
>I don't get any exercise except for my weekend jaunts into the hills,
>the rest of the time is spent sitting in front of a computer. Like
>most people I suppose I would like to be considered 'sporty', all this
>sports kit that gets sold to couch potatoes shows that most people
>want to be seen as sporty. If walking isn't a sport then I've had it!
mountain walking/climbing is a pastime, leisure activity, hobby, way
of life, waste of time, depending on your viewpoint. People talk of
sporting scrambles, the element of competition being against yourself
or the mountain - or in extreme climbing, death.
This competition with death aspect led Hemmingway to say that "there
are only three sports - motor racing, bullfighting and mountaineering,
the rest are only games" (approx quote) - games - where one competes
for points, risking prestige rather than life.
>What is your opinion
>Is walking a sport?
I think the mountains are too significant to be apprached as mere
sport. Isnt there too much of spirituality, romance and illogicality
in walking up hills in the drizzle to be a sport. On the other hand,
if Hemmingway was right about mountaineering, then hillwalking is
probably a game.
For my 2p worth, at the end of the day hillwalking is hillwalking and
I have no need to categorize it with other things, except perhaps
caving, sailing and off piste skiing.
--
Mike Reid
London walks "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk/london.htm"
(see website for email address)
Adrian Tupper
"carl" <kimil...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:209c9541.02112...@posting.google.com...
>
> What is your opinion
> Is walking a sport?
No. At least not the sort that's discussed here.
But then again I don't believe that ice dancing or synchronised swimming is
any more a sport than going to a ceilidh.
from www.m-w.com
(Webster's Dictionary)
"...physical activity engaged in for pleasure (2) : a particular activity
(as an athletic game) so engaged in..."
Which probably means that walking *is* a sport. Aren't all activities
physical?
--
Adrian
Mark Howells
Who cares?
There are many sports that are categorised as 'participation sports' and
you could ask the same question of most of them. Sailing, canoeing,
climbing and skiing are all 'sports' that _can_ be competitive but are
all enjoyed and pursued in non-competitive environments (non comp. in
the sense that you're not pitting yourself against another human being).
Mark
The Reids
>"...physical activity engaged in for pleasure (2) : a particular activity
>(as an athletic game) so engaged in..."
>
>Which probably means that walking *is* a sport. Aren't all activities
>physical?
Yes, thats a poor definition.
"an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an
individual or team competes against another or others for
entertainment"
not a sport then?
Paul Saunders
> Is walking a sport?
Yes and no.
> I am talking about mountain/hill walking here of course.
What other kind is there?
> I think intuitively of a sport as having two attributes,
> 1. Physical activity
> 2. Competition
Yeah.
> Chess isn't a sport because it ain't physical
Chess is a game, but some games simulate sport...
> Travelling across mountain landscapes is a sport if it involves
> competition, Fell Running, Orienteering, Mountain Marathons.
Yeah.
> Walking if following the rules requires at least one foot to be on the
> ground at all times,
What rules? There are no definitive rules for hill walking so you can't
disqualify anyone on that count.
> so most mountain walkers would be disqualified at
> the first haul up a rock.
Not so, "safe" climbing and scrambling tends to use the "three-point rule",
keeping three points in contact at all times, so even when scrambling and
climbing you may keep one foot on the ground at all times. Only when you
start taking risks and leaping to holds does climbing become more serious
and not really walking at all. I suspect that most "walkers" don't do this
sort of thing, even though they'll happily do a little scrambling.
> So we cant look to traditional competitive
> walking for any help.
Different game, sorry sport.
> Climbing is a sport, or at least most people view climbing as a sport,
> it can involve competition, but most often does not.
It is a competition, you against the cliff. Can you beat the cliff or will
the cliff beat you?
> If walking isn't a sport then I've had it!
>
> What is your opinion
> Is walking a sport?
It is if you want it to be. To be a sport you need challenge, so if you set
yourself a challenge on a walk then it becomes a sport. If the challenge is
to reach the top of the mountain, then you can either win or lose, depending
on whether you get there or not.
Of course, walking up a typical UK hill or mountain isn't that much of a
challenge, but then again, many couch potatoes wouldn't be up to the
challenge (they may be physically capable, but are usually not mentally
capable).
Having said that, I've been beaten a few times. Sometimes because of my
dodgy knees, sometimes because of deep snow, sometimes because of dense
forestry and failing light, but never because of bad weather, bad navigation
or difficult terrain.
I've often planned long routes and ended up doing shorter ones, so those
could be seen as failures too.
If you want walking to be a sport, then set yourself challenges. Set
objectives and see if you can reach them. If you do you win, if not you
lose. As for routes, I wouldn't say that it's necessary to follow the exact
route that you plan, but you do need to reach the objectives.
A few months ago I planned to climb Snowdon and Yr Aran with my brother. We
reached the first objective but gave Yr Aran a miss because of knee pain
(both of us) after the Snowdon descent. There are two ways of looking at
that. One is that it was a failure because we didn't reach all our
objectives. The second is that the score was Humans 1, Mountains 1. You
score a point for every objective you reach, the mountain scores a point for
every one you don't.
Of course, if you want a challenge then you need to plan something
challenging. Easy walks that you know you can complete are not really a
challenge, so are arguably not sport. But if you plan something that will
test you to your limits, over difficult terrain, long distances or in bad
weather, you might not make it. Then it becomes sport.
To make easier walks more challenging you might like to impose time limits.
You must reach the first summit by 10am, the second by 11am, and so on. Or
you must finish the walk by a particular time. That sort of thing may not
appeal to you if you don't like rushing a walk (as I don't) but it's an
option to consider if you really want sport.
If you have any regular walks that you do over and over, why not try timing
yourself? Each time you do the walk you must beat your previous time to
win. Easy at first, getting progressively harder. A good technique to use
if you're keen to get fitter. I may try this myself.
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/
Paul Saunders
> If you want walking to be a sport, then set yourself challenges. Set
> objectives and see if you can reach them. If you do you win, if not you
> lose.
Oh yes, if you decide to do this sort of thing, keep a record of your
results. You could even draw up a "league table" of you versus the
mountains. Rather than simply ticking summits off a list, you could keep
score. Perhaps set yourself the challenge of bagging say 10 new summits per
month. If you bag 12 you score two points that month, if you only bag
seven, the mountains score 3 points.
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/
Paul Saunders
> the term "sport climbing" exists
> People talk of sporting scrambles,
Indeed.
Older writers of walking guide books often used the term sport. A traverse
of the Snowdon Horseshoe would give "a good day's sport" for example. The
term tended to be used on more challenging walks though, typically those
that involved a bit of scrambling or at least negotiating some rocky stuff.
> I think the mountains are too significant to be apprached as mere
> sport. Isnt there too much of spirituality, romance and illogicality
> in walking up hills in the drizzle to be a sport.
Yeah, sport is crap isn't it? ;-)
> On the other hand,
> if Hemmingway was right about mountaineering, then hillwalking is
> probably a game.
Life is a game, as I've mentioned previously.
> For my 2p worth, at the end of the day hillwalking is hillwalking and
> I have no need to categorize it with other things, except perhaps
> caving, sailing and off piste skiing.
To me hillwalking is photography, cartography, meteorology, meditation and
exercise all rolled into one. And maybe some other things that have slipped
my mind.
Not usually sport though, unless scrambling is involved, which I tend to
think of as the upper level of walking rather than the lower level of
climbing. To me, climbing means ropes, helmets and all that other
paraphernalia. It's an end in itself (and a sport), whereas a walk is all
about travelling from A to B, visiting various objectives enroute.
Scrambling during a walk is simply part of the journey, not an end in
itself. A scramble is not an objective.
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/
Paul Saunders
> Who cares?
Carl.
I don't think it's necessary to pit yourself against a human. You can pit
yourself against the elements, against the mountains, and against the
computer.
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/
Bernard Hill
<kimil...@hotmail.com> writes
>Chess isn't a sport because it ain't physical (if we ignore the
>kicking under the tables).
Well at the risk of going OT, I would say that Chess is physical.
The world champions have to be in top physical condition as the stress
of the long events is very gruelling.
Bernard Hill
Selkirk, Scotland
Adrian Tupper
"The Reids" <DONTUs...@fell-walker.co.uk> wrote in message
news:qtseuu4plr5m5g03q...@4ax.com...
> Following up to Adrian Tupper
>
> >"...physical activity engaged in for pleasure (2) : a particular activity
> >(as an athletic game) so engaged in..."
> >
> >Which probably means that walking *is* a sport. Aren't all activities
> >physical?
>
> Yes, thats a poor definition.
>
> "an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an
> individual or team competes against another or others for
> entertainment"
>
> not a sport then?
Not if there's an element of competition required, no. How many Munros have
you done? ;-)
--
Adrian
Paul Rooney
<DONTUs...@fell-walker.co.uk> wrote:
>Following up to Adrian Tupper
>
>>"...physical activity engaged in for pleasure (2) : a particular activity
>>(as an athletic game) so engaged in..."
>>
>>Which probably means that walking *is* a sport. Aren't all activities
>>physical?
>
>Yes, thats a poor definition.
>
>"an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an
>individual or team competes against another or others for
>entertainment"
>
>not a sport then?
I've always thought that there's sport, and there's competitive sport.
My dictionary seems to bear this out - competition doesn't figure in
the definition at all.
Paul
Carl
<Mark.H...@softoption.com> wrote:
>
>Who cares?
>
Now where would newsgroups be if everyone had that atitude ?
90% of threads must be of only academic intrerest.
Carl
>keeping three points in contact at all times, so even when scrambling and
>climbing you may keep one foot on the ground at all times. Only when you
>start taking risks and leaping to holds does climbing become more serious
>and not really walking at all. I suspect that most "walkers" don't do this
>sort of thing, even though they'll happily do a little scrambling.
>
replace "hauling yourself up" with "jumping across a beck"
Carl
continualy challenge the validity of it. I want to add x wainwrights
this month, but that means missing out on non-wainwrights.
or such and such summits over the weekend, but that means not taking
things at a nice leisurley pace.
Maybe the old anti-Munro argument is about not making it a sport ?
Graham Ingram
Carl <kimilseung@_hotmail_.com> wrote in message
news:0aefuucjsn6iebl47...@4ax.com...
On the assumption that Mark's " Who cares ?" is meant in the same
spirit as Pete Clinch's "If that makes it a sport, it's a sport. If
it doesn't, I don't really
care as long as I'm having a good time." Then I actually think that
these are the two most sensible comments in this type of thread. Stop
worrying about what it is called and just get out there and enjoy
yourself !
Graham
Paul Saunders
> Stop
> worrying about what it is called and just get out there and enjoy
> yourself !
We're not worrying about anything, we're just having a pointlessly pedantic
debate to while away the hours off the hill. What else are newsgroups for?
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/
Paul Saunders
> drat, the dreaded "not following good practice" attack;
:-)
> replace "hauling yourself up" with "jumping across a beck"
I don't usually do that anymore. With my dodgy ankle and knee I'm now far
more inclined to cross a stream using the three point technique with two
legs and two walking poles. Higher boots are my next priority. ;-)
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/
Paul Saunders
> I often set myself challenges during a day or weekend, but I
> continualy challenge the validity of it.
I don't really like challenges (although I do like stats).
> I want to add x wainwrights
> this month, but that means missing out on non-wainwrights.
> or such and such summits over the weekend, but that means not taking
> things at a nice leisurley pace.
Exactly. When I have to choose between watching my stopwatch and stopping
to take a photo, guess which wins every time?
> Maybe the old anti-Munro argument is about not making it a sport ?
Better to make it a lifestyle.
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/
Graham Ingram
Paul Saunders <pv...@wildwales.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:as8pue$5ng$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
> "Graham Ingram" <gra...@terregles.freeserve.co.uk> wrote
>
> > Stop
> > worrying about what it is called and just get out there and enjoy
> > yourself !
>
> debate >
I rest my case M'Lord !
Graham ;-}
Dominic Sexton
<pv...@wildwales.fsnet.co.uk> writes
>I You can pit
>yourself against the elements, against the mountains,
How does one compete with the elements or a mountain? That sounds like
the "conquering" attitude which I despise. To me the mountain / elements
graciously allow us to enjoy them.
The only competition is against yourself.
> and against the
>computer.
That's no contest - pull the power or hit Reset to win!
--
Dominic Sexton
http://www.dscs.demon.co.uk/
Paul Saunders
> >I You can pit
> >yourself against the elements, against the mountains,
>
> How does one compete with the elements or a mountain?
Not with but against. I suppose this is only really possible when the
elements are extremely severe or the terrain is extremely difficult, which
is not usually the case in the UK.
> That sounds like
> the "conquering" attitude which I despise.
Well isn't "peak bagging" a very mild form of "conquering"? As the Human
Instinct series recently pointed out, we humans instinctively have a
competitive nature. I'm sure that instinct is stronger in some than in
others, but we all possess it to some degree. Bagging a summit is surely a
very mild form of competition? Humans like the feeling of winning, that's
why it feels good to reach the top.
> To me the mountain / elements
> graciously allow us to enjoy them.
Nah, I don't see it that way. The mountains and the elements do their own
thing. We are intruders, but not unwelcome intruders, the mountains ignore
us, like insects, we're too small to be significant. ;-)
> The only competition is against yourself.
Of course, that's just a different way of looking at it.
> > and against the
> >computer.
>
> That's no contest - pull the power or hit Reset to win!
No, that's losing!
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/
The Reids
>> not a sport then?
>
>Not if there's an element of competition required, no. How many Munros have
>you done? ;-)
Yes, "bagging" is sport walking.
The Reids
>How does one compete with the elements or a mountain? That sounds like
>the "conquering" attitude which I despise. To me the mountain / elements
>graciously allow us to enjoy them.
I think in very bad weather you *battle* with the elements, if you
make it you feel pleased with your achievment, but knowing the
mountain/weather could easily throw something worse at you. As you
say, you cant really compete, if for no other reason that the weather
isnt playing (in any sense).
The Reids
>I've always thought that there's sport, and there's competitive sport.
>My dictionary seems to bear this out - competition doesn't figure in
>the definition at all.
so how is sport then diifferent from doing excercises or digging the
garden or dancing?
The Reids
>> How does one compete with the elements or a mountain?
>
>Not with but against. I suppose this is only really possible when the
>elements are extremely severe or the terrain is extremely difficult, which
>is not usually the case in the UK.
can be sometimes of course, try the Cairngorm plateau in January. Nice
little test of fitness, navigation, clothing etc. on the "right" day.
The Reids
>> I am talking about mountain/hill walking here of course.
>
>What other kind is there?
You can walk around cities, across deserts, along coasts and
rivers......
The Reids
>Perhaps set yourself the challenge of bagging say 10 new summits per
>month. If you bag 12 you score two points that month, if you only bag
>seven, the mountains score 3 points.
I set myself the challenge of getting my munro score up to my age,
then decided it would stop me repeating hills I fancied doing, doing
half a hill then going down the pub, get me out on c*** wet days when
I could stay in the pub, doing Corbetts, walking up valleys......
Paul Rooney
<DONTUs...@fell-walker.co.uk> wrote:
>Following up to Paul Rooney
>
>>I've always thought that there's sport, and there's competitive sport.
>>My dictionary seems to bear this out - competition doesn't figure in
>>the definition at all.
>
>so how is sport then diifferent from doing excercises or digging the
>garden or dancing?
Good question. It's very hard to define it. The usual elements are
physical exercise and fun or amusement, but there are always
counterexamples.
I go running, usually alone (and not 'competing' with the elements or
myself). Surely that's sport?
OTOH, we wouldn't normally think of dancing as sport, I suppose.
So, the answer in brief is 'Don't know'!
--
Paul
Paul Saunders
> >>I've always thought that there's sport, and there's competitive sport.
> >>My dictionary seems to bear this out - competition doesn't figure in
> >>the definition at all.
> >
> >so how is sport then diifferent from doing excercises or digging the
> >garden or dancing?
>
> Good question. It's very hard to define it.
Oxford Dictionary;
Sport: An athletic (especially outdoor) activity; any game or pastime; an
outdoor pastime such as hunting or fishing.
Athlete: One who competes or excels in physical games and exercises.
> The usual elements are
> physical exercise and fun or amusement,
The usual elements are physical activity and competition of some sort,
whether against another team, another person, yourself, nature, the
elements, etc.
> I go running, usually alone (and not 'competing' with the elements or
> myself). Surely that's sport?
Do you time yourself? If so, it's sport, if not, probably not. I've run to
catch a bus when I was younger, or even just ran for fun, but I never
considered that sport because there was no competition involved.
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/
Paul Saunders
> >> I am talking about mountain/hill walking here of course.
> >
> >What other kind is there?
>
> You can walk around cities, across deserts, along coasts and
> rivers......
It was rhetorical, and another lame attempt at humour...
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/
Paul Rooney
But, as I say, competition doesn't figure at all in my dictionary's
definition (but amusement/pleasure does) I agree with the definition
of an athlete though. I gave up smoking a couple of weeks ago and have
replaced cigarettes with fudge cake/chocolate/doughnuts/anything
within grasp. I tell my kids, as they mock my expanding gut, 'This is
the body of an athlete!'
--
Paul
Peter Clinch
> Do you time yourself? If so, it's sport, if not, probably not. I've run to
> catch a bus when I was younger, or even just ran for fun, but I never
> considered that sport because there was no competition involved.
timing it is, I think, too narrow. Do you push yourself to some degree
and do it for no reason beyond your self gratification?
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
Peter Clinch
> I gave up smoking a couple of weeks ago and have
> replaced cigarettes with fudge cake/chocolate/doughnuts/anything
> within grasp. I tell my kids, as they mock my expanding gut, 'This is
> the body of an athlete!'
That newly increased cardiovascular potential will at least help supply
the oxygenated blood to keep your jaws moving overtime though... ;-)
The Reids
>I go running, usually alone (and not 'competing' with the elements or
>myself). Surely that's sport?
I dont believe it is, just excercise.
>OTOH, we wouldn't normally think of dancing as sport, I suppose.
>So, the answer in brief is 'Don't know'!
Ice dance and ballroom qualify as sports officially I suspect? But if
I had my way, sports that had to be judged for artistic merit etc
would be chucked out. Like syncronised swimming! Might as well make
pole dancing an olympic sport.
Mike Swann
Chamber's 21st Century
Sport
noun
1 a. an activity, pastime, competition, etc that usually involves a degree
of physical exertion, eg football, tennis, squash, swimming, boxing,
snooker, etc and which people take part in for exercise and/or pleasure;
All of which seems to cover it.
Mike
marc
> Is walking a sport?
When I was on the Welsh Sports Council outdoor pursuits committee, the
secretary of the committee was the Ramblers Assoc rep.
--
Marc
T Shirts, Sweatshirts, polo shirts, banners,
signs,decals, stickers etc for clubs and associations of all types
http://www.jaceeprint.demon.co.uk/
The Reids
>> >What other kind is there?
>>
>> You can walk around cities, across deserts, along coasts and
>> rivers......
>
>It was rhetorical, and another lame attempt at humour...
Right, got it. It is Monday morning :-(
Paul Saunders
> But, as I say, competition doesn't figure at all in my dictionary's
> definition (but amusement/pleasure does) I agree with the definition
> of an athlete though.
But the dictionary decribed sport as an "athletic activity", which implies
competition.
> I gave up smoking a couple of weeks ago and have
> replaced cigarettes with fudge cake/chocolate/doughnuts/anything
> within grasp.
Much better! Now you just need to go out to burn those extra calories off!
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/
Paul Saunders
> > I've run to
> > catch a bus when I was younger, or even just ran for fun,
>
> timing it is, I think, too narrow. Do you push yourself to some degree
> and do it for no reason beyond your self gratification?
I don't run anymore, but used to run a lot when I was a teenager. I never
pushed myself, I was just naturally fit and I did it mainly to get places
quickly. Walking was too slow and boring.
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/
Paul Saunders
> >I go running, usually alone (and not 'competing' with the elements or
> >myself). Surely that's sport?
>
> I dont believe it is, just excercise.
Agreed.
> Ice dance and ballroom qualify as sports officially I suspect?
Are they included in the Olympics?
> But if
> I had my way, sports that had to be judged for artistic merit etc
> would be chucked out.
Yeah. Ballroom dancing is a competition but it's not classed as a sport
surely? You can have competitions in anything, like music, photography etc,
but competition doesn't make something a sport.
By the way, no-one's mentioned motor racing yet...
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/
Peter Clinch
> By the way, no-one's mentioned motor racing yet...
It's a game requiring considerable stamina and a great deal of physical
dexterity, I don't see any problem of classifying it as a sport
Mike Swann
> By the way, no-one's mentioned motor racing yet...
>
Wasn't it Hemingway who said "There are only three sports, motor-racing,
bullfighting and mountaineering; anything else is just a past-time"?
Paul Rooney
<p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
>Paul Saunders wrote:
>
>> Do you time yourself? If so, it's sport, if not, probably not. I've run to
>> catch a bus when I was younger, or even just ran for fun, but I never
>> considered that sport because there was no competition involved.
>
>timing it is, I think, too narrow. Do you push yourself to some degree
>and do it for no reason beyond your self gratification?
>
The whole thing is tricky. I time myself, but rarely push myself.
Professional sports players could well do it purely for money - so the
amusement/pleasure aspect wouldn't be there.
--
Paul
Paul Saunders
> The whole thing is tricky. I time myself, but rarely push myself.
Do you try to beat your previous times, or simply record the times as a
measure of fitness?
I time my walks, but I never try to beat previous times when I repeat a
walk, there's no competitive element there.
I have been planning some forest routes for mountain bike rides to help me
get fit again, but I doubt that I'll try to race them.
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/
Gordon
<p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk> writes
>
>That newly increased cardiovascular potential will at least help supply
>the oxygenated blood to keep your jaws moving overtime though... ;-)
>
>Pete.
I found that reading the above sentence aloud provides good exercise for
the jaws.
--
Gordon
The Reids
>> By the way, no-one's mentioned motor racing yet...
or horse racing.
>It's a game requiring considerable stamina and a great deal of physical
>dexterity, I don't see any problem of classifying it as a sport
Yes, the logic of those who say it isnt a sport seems to be based on:-
a) they dont like a non human element in a sport
b) they find it boring
c) they dont realise how fit you have to be at the top
Paul Rooney
<pv...@wildwales.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>"Paul Rooney" <paulr...@aol.com> wrote
>
>> The whole thing is tricky. I time myself, but rarely push myself.
>
>Do you try to beat your previous times, or simply record the times as a
>measure of fitness?
>
I just keep a record. The times do tend to improve though.
>I time my walks, but I never try to beat previous times when I repeat a
>walk, there's no competitive element there.
>
I never time my walks - it wouldn't mean much if I did, because I'm
always stopping for one reason or another!
>I have been planning some forest routes for mountain bike rides to help me
>get fit again, but I doubt that I'll try to race them.
>
>Paul
--
Paul
Carl
>
>some people do and the term "sport climbing" exists
>
but for most people _all_ climbing is viewed as a sport.
probably the emphasis on new routes on new mountains with new styles
has fed this impression, the competition is the way that you climb, or
the impression that mountains such as Everest give people, where it is
the first one eyed german speaking Ukraninan to climb from the south
col, via a 10m walk towards Nuptse.
has anyone mentioned sking yet ?
The reason that I asked the original question goes back at least 6
months ago after a conversation with a work colleague, I cant remember
what made me think about this conversation recently.
We were talking about winter weather and she said that only people who
do winter sports are really aware of trends in the winter weather,
most people dont notice how mild it might be in December for instance,
but someone intrested in a winter sport would notice.
Well she was classifying sking as her winter sport, again most people
view sking as a sport, no matter how little competition is involved,
even if you just point yourself in the right direction and fall over,
most would think of themselves as invloved in a sport.
I had just recently returned from a trip in the Cairngorms and still
had the downers on skiers after the disapointment of the arrival at
the top of the ski runs on the N side of Cairngorm, after a wonderful
walk over Ben Macdui from Derry Lodge. I just couldnt think of the
people sking on Cairngorm as involved in a sport (a case of "Get 'orf
my adopted mountain if yer not a walker") of any merit; and if they
are sportsmen then I must definitley be.
I have clamed down since in my attitude towaards skiers.
Martin Richardson
<DONTUs...@fell-walker.co.uk> writes
>Following up to Paul Rooney
>
>>I've always thought that there's sport, and there's competitive sport.
>>My dictionary seems to bear this out - competition doesn't figure in
>>the definition at all.
>
>so how is sport then diifferent from doing excercises or digging the
>garden or dancing?
having sex with someone else?
masturbating?
--
Martin Richardson
185/284 Munros 305/1552 Marilyns 439/439 Nuttalls ?/? Deweys
Tim Jackson
> "Paul Rooney" <paulr...@aol.com> wrote
>
> > But, as I say, competition doesn't figure at all in my dictionary's
> > definition (but amusement/pleasure does) I agree with the definition
> > of an athlete though.
>
> But the dictionary decribed sport as an "athletic activity", which implies
> competition.
Your dictionary quote earlier gave several alternatives, only one of
which required athletic activity. And the definition you quoted of
"athlete" said "One who competes **OR** excels in physical games and
exercises".
The other two definitions of "sport" were "any game or pastime; an
outdoor pastime such as hunting or fishing."
So I think it depends which of the alternative definitions you choose to
use.
Certainly, competitive physical activity counts as sport, under one
definition. Or you can excel in physical games and exercises, but not
competitively, and still be counted under another definition as an
athlete (and therefore as taking part in a sport).
Or you can take part in *any* game or pastime and call it a sport. (Does
this mean that doing a crossword puzzle counts?)
--
Tim Jackson
ne...@winterbourne.freeserve.invalid
(Change '.invalid' to '.co.uk' to reply direct)
Absurd patents: visit http://www.patent.freeserve.co.uk
Paul Saunders
> > By the way, no-one's mentioned motor racing yet...
>
> It's a game requiring considerable stamina and a great deal of physical
> dexterity, I don't see any problem of classifying it as a sport
Just testing... :-)
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/
Paul Saunders
Motor Racing
> Yes, the logic of those who say it isnt a sport seems to be based on:-
> a) they dont like a non human element in a sport
Yet most sports require some sort of equipment to be played.
> b) they find it boring
I find most sports boring. In fact the word sport practically means boredom
to me.
> c) they dont realise how fit you have to be at the top
Remember how Nigel Mansell would sometimes collapse after getting out of the
car? Notice how Michael Shumacher looks like he's never even broken a sweat
afterwards?
What about snooker? Or darts? They certainly don't require physical
fitness.
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/
Paul Saunders
> I just keep a record. The times do tend to improve though.
As you'd expect.
> I never time my walks - it wouldn't mean much if I did, because I'm
> always stopping for one reason or another!
So do I, but I still time them. I've been doing this for many years now so
I plenty of past data I can analyse.
The usual method for determining how long a walk will take is to use
Naismith's formula, yet few people are fit enough to keep up with him and
stopping a lot ruins the formula anyway.
Since I take much longer than Naismith to do my walks, it's helpful to know
how long a particular walk took in the past, especially if I've done it a
few times. This can give me a reasonable indication of how long it might
take next time. Of course, there is some variability in the amount of stops
on any given walk, but I guess it would average out over enough of them.
See new thread on this topic...
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/
Paul Saunders
> Your dictionary quote earlier gave several alternatives, only one of
> which required athletic activity.
True. It actually gave many more but I only quoted the most pertinent ones.
> And the definition you quoted of
> "athlete" said "One who competes **OR** excels in physical games and
> exercises".
Also true.
> The other two definitions of "sport" were "any game or pastime; an
> outdoor pastime such as hunting or fishing."
>
> So I think it depends which of the alternative definitions you choose to
> use.
Yeah, so it seems that the "athletic" element is the one that isn't vital to
the definition, but the others all involve some form of competition, so
that's the main thing. Games are competitions, hunting and fishing is a
competition between you and the wildlife and even "pastimes" are competitive
if only in a passive sense - things like peak bagging, stamp collecting or
train spotting for example.
I think the con
> Certainly, competitive physical activity counts as sport, under one
> definition. Or you can excel in physical games and exercises, but not
> competitively, and still be counted under another definition as an
> athlete (and therefore as taking part in a sport).
Which would make exercises, like running, a sport.
> Or you can take part in *any* game or pastime and call it a sport. (Does
> this mean that doing a crossword puzzle counts?)
Perhaps...
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/
The Reids
An alternative definition:-
"sport is a physical activity requiring dexterity and strength *which
has no practical purpose*."
Jogging - out
weight training - out
digging garden - out
dancing - ???? depends why you dance :-)
skiing - in
what do you think?
The Reids
>We were talking about winter weather and she said that only people who
>do winter sports are really aware of trends in the winter weather,
>most people dont notice how mild it might be in December for instance,
>but someone intrested in a winter sport would notice.
>Well she was classifying sking as her winter sport, again most people
>view sking as a sport, no matter how little competition is involved
they are just plain wrong. Winter walkers, yatchmen, birdwatchers,
climbers etc etc all watch the weather as do many others.
Putting a load of permenent equipment on a mountain so people can be
taken to the top to fall over isnt a sport, its vandalism.
Leisure skiers by association with downhill racers think they are
sportsmen are like people who walk up the tourist path in Ben Nevis
and by association think they are mountaineers.
Is driving fast a sport, in a "sports car" on the road.....No.
>I have clamed down since in my attitude towaards skiers.
why? :-)
The Reids
>> b) they find it boring
>
>I find most sports boring. In fact the word sport practically means boredom
>to me.
watching sport is boring, doing sport is interesting if its your
thing. This applies to the whole of life, why are so many happy to be
voyeurs, we despise those who watch "sex", why not the same for
football? :-)
Watching things is only worthwhile if we learn from it? (But where
would that leave watching the League of Gentlemen).
>> c) they dont realise how fit you have to be at the top
>
>Remember how Nigel Mansell would sometimes collapse after getting out of the
>car? Notice how Michael Shumacher looks like he's never even broken a sweat
>afterwards?
yep
>What about snooker? Or darts? They certainly don't require physical
>fitness.
games, insufficient physical input.
The Reids
>>so how is sport then diifferent from doing excercises or digging the
>>garden or dancing?
>And which of these is a sport:
>having sex with someone else?
this has a practical purpose (see my suggested new definition) and is
non competitive.
>masturbating?
thats a hobby
Roger Chapman
"any particular pastime indulged in for pleasure"
A definition so wide that it would encompass any hobby. But it is the
attitude to the activity that makes it a sport rather that the actual
activity itself. Road walking a sport - the mind boggles. :-)
One should not forget that the various definitions of 'sport' are not
exclusive so the definition above would not preclude professional
involvement in a competitive game even though these days a professional
sportsmans actual conduct would almost certainly be the very antithesis
of 'sportsmanlike'.
--
Roger
Looking North over the Aire Valley (and Marley Gasworks) to Rombolds Moor
The Reids
>One should not forget that the various definitions of 'sport' are not
>exclusive so the definition above would not preclude professional
>involvement in a competitive game even though these days a professional
>sportsmans actual conduct would almost certainly be the very antithesis
>of 'sportsmanlike'.
Yes mine says "sporting"
"fair and generous in one's behaviour or treatment of others,
especially in a game or contest"
The "professional foul" comes to mind as its antithesis.
Gordon
<DONTUs...@fell-walker.co.uk> writes
>Following up to Martin Richardson
>
>
>thats a hobby
No it isn't - it's having sex with the person you love best. :-)
--
Gordon
Roger Chapman
from The Reids <DONTUs...@fell-walker.co.uk> contains these words:
> >One should not forget that the various definitions of 'sport' are not
> >exclusive so the definition above would not preclude professional
> >involvement in a competitive game even though these days a professional
> >sportsmans actual conduct would almost certainly be the very antithesis
> >of 'sportsmanlike'.
> Yes mine says "sporting"
> "fair and generous in one's behaviour or treatment of others,
> especially in a game or contest"
> The "professional foul" comes to mind as its antithesis.
Just not cricket is it? Not that cricket in any way lives up to its
supposed values these days.
Mike Swann
"Gordon" <Gor...@g3snx.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:0PmloNAc...@g3snx.demon.co.uk...
of one hand clapping?
Paul Saunders
> watching sport is boring, doing sport is interesting if its your
> thing. This applies to the whole of life, why are so many happy to be
> voyeurs,
I think there are two kinds of people in this world, do-ers and watchers.
Some like active entertainment, others prefer passive. If everyone in the
world was a do-er, there'd be no spectators. Then how would the sportsmen
get paid?
> we despise those who watch "sex", why not the same for
> football? :-)
I despise people who watch football. ;-)
> Watching things is only worthwhile if we learn from it?
Nah, what about art? And listening to music? Those are just about
pleasuring the senses, we don't need to learn anything.
> (But where
> would that leave watching the League of Gentlemen).
I learnt a lot from watching that! I learned to stay away from small
northern villages...
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/
The Reids
> If everyone in the
>world was a do-er, there'd be no spectators. Then how would the sportsmen
>get paid?
who cares?
>> we despise those who watch "sex", why not the same for
>> football? :-)
>
>I despise people who watch football. ;-)
fair enough.
>> Watching things is only worthwhile if we learn from it?
>
>Nah, what about art? And listening to music? Those are just about
>pleasuring the senses, we don't need to learn anything.
I didnt mean *looking* at art, or *looking* at music :-) I meant
watching somebody doing something you could be doing yourself. You
cant do somebody elses art or music, only your own.
>> (But where
>> would that leave watching the League of Gentlemen).
>
>I learnt a lot from watching that! I learned to stay away from small
>northern villages...
be afraid :-)
Paul Saunders
> > Then how would the sportsmen
> >get paid?
>
> who cares?
The highly paid sportsmen!
> >I despise people who watch football. ;-)
>
> fair enough.
Another lame joke...
> >> Watching things is only worthwhile if we learn from it?
> >
> >Nah, what about art? And listening to music? Those are just about
> >pleasuring the senses, we don't need to learn anything.
>
> I didnt mean *looking* at art, or *looking* at music :-) I meant
> watching somebody doing something you could be doing yourself.
Yeah, but you did mention LOG, which confused the issue somewhat. I was
simply commenting on many people's tendency toward passive entertainment.
They gain pleasure from watching others do things, or enjoying the art or
music that others have created.
> You
> cant do somebody elses art or music, only your own.
Not necessarily, you can play other people's music! I get your point, but
my point was that in the same way spectators will go to a football match to
watch other people kicking a ball around a field, they will go to a club to
watch a band play. Just as you can choose to kick your own ball you can
learn to play an instrument, join a band and be up there on stage instead of
in the audience.
Some people like passive entertainment, others active. Some like to be
involved in doing things, others prefer to watch.
Of course, it is possible to do both, you may enjoy doing some things but
watching others.
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/
The Reids
>they will go to a club to
>watch a band play. Just as you can choose to kick your own ball you can
>learn to play an instrument, join a band and be up there on stage instead of
>in the audience.
I find *watching* bands generally so so, but see below....
>Some people like passive entertainment, others active. Some like to be
>involved in doing things, others prefer to watch.
>
>Of course, it is possible to do both, you may enjoy doing some things but
>watching others.
Yes, I like *watching* the type of girl bands they have on TOTP,
wouldnt mine "doing" some of them too :-)
Richard Webb
>>> we despise those who watch "sex", why not the same for
>>> football? :-)
>>
>>I despise people who watch football. ;-)
>
>fair enough.
>
No It Is Not!
What harm does it do you?
Why not find something worth despising. I quite enjoy a humiliating
defeat after a morning charging / walking around the Forest of Dean...
There again is watching Hereford United, watching football?
Richard Webb
http://www.sub3000.com
Richard Webb
>
>Just not cricket is it? Not that cricket in any way lives up to its
>supposed values these days.
>
Oh yes.. When players still walk when on 197 (M Hayden)
The old values are still there behind the headline grabbing bad
guys...
Richard Webb
http://www.sub3000.com
Carl
>I despise people who watch football. ;-)
>
do you really despise me?
footballs given me my greatest highs and lows
Liverpool v St Etienne being the high (a true spiritual moment)
and Hillsborough and Heysel being the lows
>
>Nah, what about art? And listening to music? Those are just about
>pleasuring the senses, we don't need to learn anything.
>
what about Art ?
Art is a product of Civilization, one of the reasons I go walking is
to get away from Civilization. these days, whenever I get tempted to
go down the smoke for an exhibition I consider the oppurtunity cost of
a walk and the walk comes out on top.
Art and Walking have spirituality as prime ingredients, and the
mountains win out every time over what people can produce.
'specailly then Landscape artist like Richard Long, whats that all
about, whats the point of recording a walk. or moulding the landscape,
why try and force human hands onto the landscape (mind you
'Cathedral' by Andy Goldworthy gets me excited - its in or was in
Grizedale forest for them that dont know it) I'd like to develop this
into a theory but the thought of an Auerbach or a Bomberg keep getting
in the way. .
Gordon
<gri...@crux.u-net.com> writes
--
Gordon
Paul Saunders
> >>> we despise those who watch "sex", why not the same for
> >>> football? :-)
> >>
> >>I despise people who watch football. ;-)
> >
> >fair enough.
>
> No It Is Not!
>
> What harm does it do you?
Oh dear...
Smiley!!! JOKE!!!
I really should stop these futile attempts at humour. Clearly I'm no good
at it. :-(
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/
Paul Saunders
> >I despise people who watch football. ;-)
>
> do you really despise me?
Well that depends, are you one of those yobboes that throws the game into
disrepute?
OF COURSE NOT!!!!! Didn't you see the smiley? The punchline that you've
quoted above makes no sense out of context, you have to read the bit before
it to understand the joke, but evidently no-one got it...
> what about Art ?
> Art is a product of Civilization, one of the reasons I go walking is
> to get away from Civilization.
Hmm... One of the reasons I go walking is to practice my art...
> Art and Walking have spirituality as prime ingredients,
Spirituality is all in the mind...
> and the
> mountains win out every time over what people can produce.
I produce photos of mountains!
> 'specailly then Landscape artist like Richard Long, whats that all
> about, whats the point of recording a walk. or moulding the landscape,
> why try and force human hands onto the landscape
I'm starting to lose you here...
Moulding, no. Recording, yes.
> (mind you
> 'Cathedral' by Andy Goldworthy gets me excited - its in or was in
> Grizedale forest for them that dont know it) I'd like to develop this
> into a theory but the thought of an Auerbach or a Bomberg keep getting
> in the way. .
What on earth are you on about?
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/
The Reids
>what about Art ?
>Art is a product of Civilization, one of the reasons I go walking is
>to get away from Civilization. these days, whenever I get tempted to
>go down the smoke for an exhibition I consider the oppurtunity cost of
>a walk and the walk comes out on top.
fair enough, but if the possibility is there why not natural beauty
AND man made, dont see why one precludes the other.
The Reids
>>>I despise people who watch football. ;-)
>>
>>fair enough.
>>
>
>No It Is Not!
>
>What harm does it do you?
It depends if you find yourself on a train when they (footballl
supporters) get on) :-(
But worse than 1000 foul mouthed Millwall supporters (motto: "nobody
likes us and we dont care") must be going for a drink with people who
share an interest in the F word and insist on talking about football
in----term----in------ably. <snore>
I also think tribalism amoungst football supporters is a very bad
thing. (Celtic/Rangers for instance)
Paul Saunders
> But worse than 1000 foul mouthed Millwall supporters (motto: "nobody
> likes us and we dont care") must be going for a drink with people who
> share an interest in the F word and insist on talking about football
> in----term----in------ably. <snore>
Yeah, almost as bad as people who go on and on about hill walking, right? I
mean, if you've been up one hill you've been up them all, haven't you?
Isn't one hill much the same as any other? You walk up, you walk back down,
where's the appeal in that? It's not as if they're even interesting or
anything...
> I also think tribalism amoungst football supporters is a very bad
> thing. (Celtic/Rangers for instance)
Yeah, not to mention Swansea and Cardiff.
I've got nothing against people who have a genuine interest in the sport,
but football is peculiar in that it seems to attract people who aren't
really interested in the game at all, they're just interested in the
rivalry, the drinking, the swearing, the running riot through the streets,
etc. Why aren't these people interested in other sports? Perhaps because
there's no prospect of a good fight afterwards?
Rugby is the most similar game to football in this country, and it's a much
more aggressive game on the pitch, but for some reason it doesn't seem to
attract the yobboes.
Go figure...
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/
The Reids
> Why aren't these people interested in other sports?
I expect football has always had the biggest appeal, so I suppose
thats where the yobbery broke out?
>Perhaps because
>there's no prospect of a good fight afterwards?
>
>Rugby is the most similar game to football in this country, and it's a much
>more aggressive game on the pitch, but for some reason it doesn't seem to
>attract the yobboes.
"Rugger buggers" are a different, much posher breed of yob. We used to
share facilities at Richmond for a cross country, The RBs were
dropping thier trousers after the first pint and after three we had to
form a cordon round the women. They seemed deeply immature. Lots of
singing songs and silly behavior. No violence though, they do that on
the pitch.
Gordon
<DONT_USE...@fell-walker.co.uk> writes
>Following up to Carl
>
>>what about Art ?
>>Art is a product of Civilization, one of the reasons I go walking is
>>to get away from Civilization. these days, whenever I get tempted to
>>go down the smoke for an exhibition I consider the oppurtunity cost of
>>a walk and the walk comes out on top.
>
>fair enough
As Richard Webb once wrote: "No it is not!"
--
Gordon
Paul Saunders
> "Rugger buggers" are a different, much posher breed of yob. We used to
> share facilities at Richmond for a cross country, The RBs were
> dropping thier trousers after the first pint and after three we had to
> form a cordon round the women. They seemed deeply immature. Lots of
> singing songs and silly behavior. No violence though, they do that on
> the pitch.
I associate the word yob with violence. Rugby fans may be boisterous but
there's no ill-will (not so far as I'm aware).
I played a gig in the South Wales Valleys once, on the same day that Ireland
had lost to Wales and the place was swarming with Irishmen. You'd never
have guessed that they lost. A great bunch, they bought me drinks all night
(and they weren't unhappy to discover that I was a Guinness drinker either).
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/
Carl
>
>Moulding, no. Recording, yes.
>
>> (mind you
>> 'Cathedral' by Andy Goldworthy gets me excited - its in or was in
>> Grizedale forest for them that dont know it) I'd like to develop this
>> into a theory but the thought of an Auerbach or a Bomberg keep getting
>> in the way. .
>
>What on earth are you on about?
>
half thought out ideas that are floating around my mind sometimes.
and sometimes I push an idea too far just to see how much it stands
up. I'm currently in anti-art mode and I'm like one of those
ex-smokers who can be the most anti-smoker.( I'm an ex art student and
ex art teacher) .
Auerbach and Bomberg were amongst my most admired artists and
Goldsworthy is the landscape artist whom I most admired
Pierre Lavaurs
>
> (...)
>
> It depends if you find yourself on a train when they (footballl
> supporters) get on) :-(
Very good recollections of World Cup 1998, as concerns train travels
with supporters though... As I went walking in Provence using the night
train as usual, I happened to board the train at 2.45 am. This was
usually a dreadful bore, the train being filled with snorers and drunken
vagrants, but this time there were Mexican stout lads with big hats
descending on the platform at Lyons for a few steps of dance with tiny
Korean student girls, at the arrival at Marseilles there were people
looking like big Dutch tourists wrapped in South-African flags and
playing drums, Tunisian families waiving flags on the Canebière in their
cars, German tourists with their ten-year old boy full of wonder at his
first glimpse of the Mediterranean. And English supporters doing nazi
salutes while the police tried to prevent them to approach the
Tunisians.
The problem is perhaps with English supporters ? (The next week, I went
walking above Saint-Étienne, coming back after the Morocco-Scotland
game, and both supporter groups seemed fully civilized in the train).
Paul Saunders
> >What on earth are you on about?
> >
> I'm not suprised that I've lost you. I do have a tendancey to spew out
> half thought out ideas that are floating around my mind sometimes.
> and sometimes I push an idea too far just to see how much it stands
> up.
Are you sure you weren't on drugs at the time? ;-)
> I'm currently in anti-art mode and I'm like one of those
> ex-smokers who can be the most anti-smoker.( I'm an ex art student and
> ex art teacher) .
> Auerbach and Bomberg were amongst my most admired artists and
> Goldsworthy is the landscape artist whom I most admired
I see.
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/
Richard Webb
>I've got nothing against people who have a genuine interest in the sport,
>but football is peculiar in that it seems to attract people who aren't
>really interested in the game at all, they're just interested in the
>rivalry, the drinking, the swearing, the running riot through the streets,
>etc. Why aren't these people interested in other sports? Perhaps because
>there's no prospect of a good fight afterwards?
Maybe in Swansea..
You know, those of us who watch football in the conference are getting
rather worried... Swansea are not doing to well. We dont want them...,
and we certainly dont want some of the supporters.
Meanwhile the folk I watch football witha re quite house
trained.(although we have a few morons of our own)
Richard Webb
http://www.sub3000.com
Paul Saunders
> You know, those of us who watch football in the conference are getting
> rather worried...
Conference?
> Swansea are not doing to well.
Aren't they? I wouldn't know. I don't even know what league they're in.
> We dont want them...,
Ah, so the conference is some sort of league then?
> and we certainly dont want some of the supporters.
I can sympathise with that. But at least you don't come from Cardiff.
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/pg/mg/mg.html
The Reids
>And English supporters doing nazi
>salutes while the police tried to prevent them to approach the
>Tunisians.
>
>The problem is perhaps with English supporters ?
I think England is world class at it but others try and compete.
Also World Cups do not have typical football crowds. They lack the
full tribalism as the tribal loyalty is to club.
The Reids
>I associate the word yob with violence. Rugby fans may be boisterous but
>there's no ill-will (not so far as I'm aware).
its not exclusivly violence, rude and noisy are in it too. Unruly
"boy" = "yob"
The Reids
>>>what about Art ?
>>>Art is a product of Civilization, one of the reasons I go walking is
>>>to get away from Civilization. these days, whenever I get tempted to
>>>go down the smoke for an exhibition I consider the oppurtunity cost of
>>>a walk and the walk comes out on top.
>>
>>fair enough
>
>As Richard Webb once wrote: "No it is not!"
which bit isnt what???
Gordon
<gri...@crux.u-net.com> writes
>
>You know, those of us who watch football in the conference are getting
>rather worried... Swansea are not doing to well. We dont want them...,
>and we certainly dont want some of the supporters.
>
élite league called the Premiership will be good for those clubs run as
a business / marketing enterprise, but disastrous for the lower échelons
of football, whence the great players of the past emerged.
Matt Busby built a side of largely local youths to become the best club
in the country (world?), but now Ferguson uses big money to buy players
from abroad. This is why the England football team will go the same
way as the cricket team, there is no breeding ground for world class
players in England. :-(
>Meanwhile the folk I watch football witha re quite house
>trained.(although we have a few morons of our own)
>
I have a fully house-trained lady friend, but I find it nerve-wracking
watching football with her because she gets very excited and shouts a
lot.
She is otherwise a very calm, controlled, and unruffled person......
Back on topic, we go walking quite a lot.
--
Gordon
Gordon
<DONT_USE...@fell-walker.co.uk> writes
>Following up to Gordon
>
>>>>what about Art ?
>>>>Art is a product of Civilization, one of the reasons I go walking is
>>>>to get away from Civilization. these days, whenever I get tempted to
>>>>go down the smoke for an exhibition I consider the oppurtunity cost of
>>>>a walk and the walk comes out on top.
>>>
>>>fair enough
>>
>>As Richard Webb once wrote: "No it is not!"
>
>which bit isnt what???
It. Isn't fair enough. 8-)
--
Gordon
Richard Webb
<DONT_USE...@fell-walker.co.uk> wrote:
>Following up to Gordon
>
>>>>what about Art ?
>>>>Art is a product of Civilization, one of the reasons I go walking is
>>>>to get away from Civilization. these days, whenever I get tempted to
>>>>go down the smoke for an exhibition I consider the oppurtunity cost of
>>>>a walk and the walk comes out on top.
>>>
>>>fair enough
>>
>>As Richard Webb once wrote: "No it is not!"
>
>which bit isnt what???
Dont ask me... !
Richard Webb
CLogicRogerC
mountains win out every time over what people can produce.>>
Right. And some see their inner light reflected in nature, seeing it as beauty
while others reveal their inner light through art, thus producing something
beautiful.
Each to his own - its all the same divine light but we are all unique and drawn
to it in different ways. I respect art. Im a musician. I can't draw to save my
life. I have had some really spiritual experiences in the mountains.
I fancy a walk :)
RC