Scottish mountains - how on earth can anyone pronounce them?
Peewiglet
develop an idea of where I might like to walk than I forget where it
was, because I can't begin to pronounce about 95% of the place names.
Is it all a malignant plot to keep nesh Southerners out?
How on earth does anyone ever tell anyone else where they've been? Or
do those in the know just make a few gutteral grunting noises and make
it up as they go along?
Enquiring minds want to know...
(And can anyone please tell me how to pronounce Lairig Ghru??)
Thank you.
Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \
Rooney
wrote:
Larrig Groo, if you want an Englsh person to have any idea where
you're talking about.
I find the names difficult to remember, for the same reason.
--
R
o
o
n
e
y
Peewiglet
[...]
>>(And can anyone please tell me how to pronounce Lairig Ghru??)
>
>Larrig Groo,
Thanks :)
>if you want an Englsh
But look: it's swallowed half your vowels already....
>person to have any idea where
>you're talking about.
>I find the names difficult to remember, for the same reason.
You can say that again....
Syke
"Peewiglet" <p...@theretreadplant.com> wrote in message
news:0aqur0hsalb8prgs5...@4ax.com...
There's a series starting on 13th January (BBC 2) on that very subject. In
Gaelic with subtitles> Not sure if will be visible all over UK>
Regards
Pat Macguire
spongebob
"Peewiglet" <p...@theretreadplant.com> wrote
> I've been poring over the map of Scotland, but no sooner to I begin
to
> develop an idea of where I might like to walk than I forget where it
> was, because I can't begin to pronounce about 95% of the place
names.
>
> Is it all a malignant plot to keep nesh Southerners out?
>
> How on earth does anyone ever tell anyone else where they've been?
Or
> do those in the know just make a few gutteral grunting noises and
make
> it up as they go along?
>
Try http://www.munromagic.com/
You can click and listen to the pronunciation.
Graham
Dave Mclaughlin
Someone posted a web page here a while back. It had a list of Scottish
mountains and .wav files so you could hear the correct pronunciation.
I'll see if I can dig it out.....
--
Dave McLaughlin
Homo Sapiens Non Urinat In Ventum
Peewiglet
wrote:
[...]
>Someone posted a web page here a while back. It had a list of Scottish
>mountains and .wav files so you could hear the correct pronunciation.
>I'll see if I can dig it out.....
Thanks :)
Peewiglet
wrote:
[...]
>There's a series starting on 13th January (BBC 2) on that very subject. In
>Gaelic with subtitles> Not sure if will be visible all over UK>
Thank you! Synchronicity or what?! :)
Sandy Birrell
Knowing how much you like to shop, these might help :)
I don't know how good they are, maybe someone else does.
--
Don`t Worry, Be Happy
Sandy
--
E-Mail:- ne...@ftscotland.co.uk
Website:- http://www.ftscotland.co.uk
Looking for a webhost? Try http://www.1and1.co.uk/?k_id=2966019
Dave Mclaughlin
Peewiglet
[...]
>Try http://www.munromagic.com/
>
>You can click and listen to the pronunciation.
Thanks!
Peewiglet
wrote:
[...]
>Spongebob beat me to it - by about 30 seconds!!
>
>http://www.munromagic.com/
Thank you too :-)
Peewiglet
<ne...@ftscotland.co.uk> wrote:
[...]
>Knowing how much you like to shop, these might help :)
>
>http://www.hillwalker.org.uk/Products/Hillwalker/Munros/4/Reviews%20by%20Professionals/TM4%20Montagnes%20et%20Collines(in%20English).htm
Kewl, thanks!
AndyP
> Try http://www.munromagic.com/
>
> You can click and listen to the pronunciation.
You get some good effects from doing loads of clicks in quick succession.
(Some of us are easily amused).
Peewiglet
Oooh yes! I see what you mean!! :-)
Wow, my head's spinning now!
Roy
"spongebob" <Gr...@m.com> wrote in message
news:k8Kvd.283$_g5...@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...
Brilliant.
If your out on the hill without your iPod, Ralph Storer's "100 best routes
on Scottish mountains" has pronunciations.
Roy.
C L Imber
>Try http://www.munromagic.com/
Superb website.
Thanks!
Syke
But be careful. I wouldn't know myself, but a friend's wife, who is a native
Gaelic speaker, tells me the pronunciation on this site is not very good.
Regards
Pat Macguire
spongebob
"Syke" <h.mac...@virgin.net> wrote
>
> But be careful. I wouldn't know myself, but a friend's wife, who is
a native
> Gaelic speaker, tells me the pronunciation on this site is not very
good.
>
Yes, I did wonder how much Gaelic varies across Western Scotland
(Liathach being the one everyone debates about -th =g or th =
silent?). The language is supposed to be logical, yet there seems to
be room for dispute?
Graham
spongebob
"BeauGeste" <munr...@lineone.net> wrote
> 3. Finally, more to the point, I just try and pronounce the Scottish
> hills in English. So when I've taken a pic on my digital I press the
> record button and say 'This is me at the top of 'Sgoor Fuooar Fuill'
> (Sgurr Fhuar-thuill). Totally mispronounced, of course, but what the
> hell, eh. As long as it means something to you.
Kewl! Shurely you mean Sgur Fooar-thuil? ;-)
Graham
bob watkinson
Syke
"Syke" <h.mac...@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:32aek8F...@individual.net...
>
> "spongebob" <Gr...@m.com> wrote in message
> news:k8Kvd.283$_g5...@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...
> >
> > "Peewiglet" <p...@theretreadplant.com> wrote
> >
> > > I've been poring over the map of Scotland, but no sooner to I begin
> > to
> > > develop an idea of where I might like to walk than I forget where it
> > > was, because I can't begin to pronounce about 95% of the place
> > names.
> > >
> > > Is it all a malignant plot to keep nesh Southerners out?
> > >
> > > How on earth does anyone ever tell anyone else where they've been?
> > Or
> > > do those in the know just make a few gutteral grunting noises and
> > make
> > > it up as they go along?
> > >
Oh, and if you're REALLY,REALLY interested, try and get hold of "Scottish
Hill and Mountain Names" by Peter Drummond, published by Scottish
Mountaineering Trust, ISBN 0-907521-30-4. It'll probably tell you more than
you want to know but is interesting nevertheless.
Regards
Pat Macguire
Michael Farthing
<p...@theretreadplant.com> writes
>I've been poring over the map of Scotland, but no sooner to I begin to
>develop an idea of where I might like to walk than I forget where it
>was, because I can't begin to pronounce about 95% of the place names.
>
>Is it all a malignant plot to keep nesh Southerners out?
>
>How on earth does anyone ever tell anyone else where they've been? Or
>do those in the know just make a few gutteral grunting noises and make
>it up as they go along?
>
>
>Enquiring minds want to know...
The basic rule about Gaelic is that if in doubt about how a particular
letter or letter combination is pronounced, miss it out. You will be
correct more often than you are incorrect.
But for an expert opinion:
"The difficulties to be surmounted in studying and pronouncing Gaelic
are not at all so formidable or so numerous as they may at first sight
appear"
[MacLaren's Gaelic Self-Taught] Introduction
"The combination of lingual consonants with labials and also g and ch is
noted in that they interpolate an added vowel sound between them and one
generally correspondent to the preceding vowel. Thus, the combinations
ib, ich, ig, im, ip and so on, interpolate this distinct drawl vowel
between them. faibh [falu"v); alba (alabu"); tilg (tchy lyk) etc.
Similarly between the same groups of consonants when they come next each
other in compound words: ban-mhaighstir (banava"shtchyr)."
ibid, Para 37
Can't think what you're making a fuss about.
--
Michael Farthing
Aardvark Ltd
Tony Buckley
> Can't think what you're making a fuss about.
And quite right too. Just to recap then Michael, you pronounce Liathach
how...?
Tony
Who wonders what his name would look like were it given the gaelic treatment
Peewiglet
<m...@cyclades.demon.co.uk> wrote:
[...]
>[MacLaren's Gaelic Self-Taught] Introduction
>
>"The combination of lingual consonants with labials and also g and ch is
>noted in that they interpolate an added vowel sound between them and one
>generally correspondent to the preceding vowel. Thus, the combinations
>ib, ich, ig, im, ip and so on, interpolate this distinct drawl vowel
>between them. faibh [falu"v); alba (alabu"); tilg (tchy lyk) etc.
>Similarly between the same groups of consonants when they come next each
>other in compound words: ban-mhaighstir (banava"shtchyr)."
>
>ibid, Para 37
>
>Can't think what you're making a fuss about.
Yes, it's all much clearer now, thanks.
;-)
Michael Farthing
<a.g.b...@nospam.cclrc.ac.uk> writes
>Michael Farthing wrote
>
>> Can't think what you're making a fuss about.
>
>And quite right too. Just to recap then Michael, you pronounce Liathach
>how...?
:-)
Llee ach
The double l as double ll in million, not as in Welsh.
'ch', of course, as in loch not church.
Well, that's what MacLaren says (I think), but he is a bit guarded:
Para 36: "th: in the middle and end of a word it is _generally_ silent"
[ie. It follows Farthing Para 1: "if in doubt, miss it out" - but only
_generally_ ].
My own view is that it is more sensible to climb it than to pronounce
it.
And it's super to run down.
PS Apologies for extra confusion added by me in post referred to: I made
all the consonant combinations begin with i instead of l
Phil Cook
>1. Ignore Ralph Storer! Before I became a munro-bagger I followed his
>routes and climbed the middle 2 peaks of the South Shiel Ridge. Middle
>two? What use was that!! Any decent guide would have told you to get
>off your bum and do the whole ridge, 7 munros and all. Which I did
>several years later, feeling aggrieved that I was having to repeat a
>couple because of Ralph Storer.
Fine. But Storer never said his book was intended for Munro Baggers
did he? No, just the best 100 routes on Scottish Mountains. He's a bit
over-keen on steep (do I someone say precipitous?) grass slopes for
descent but that book is one of the best of it's kind.
>
>2. I hate the use of the word 'kewl'! Please bring back flogging for
>all who should know better...
>
>3. Finally, more to the point, I just try and pronounce the Scottish
>hills in English. So when I've taken a pic on my digital I press the
>record button and say 'This is me at the top of 'Sgoor Fuooar Fuill'
>(Sgurr Fhuar-thuill). Totally mispronounced, of course, but what the
>hell, eh. As long as it means something to you.
Why not just call the hills by the translation of their name into
English? Sgurr Fuar-Thuill becomes peak of the cold hollow, simple.
It is said that more than 50% of baggers don't even know which hill
they are on.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"
Tony Buckley
> >And quite right too. Just to recap then Michael, you pronounce Liathach
> >how...?
> :-)
Good, that's how it was meant!
> Llee ach
> [ie. It follows Farthing Para 1: "if in doubt, miss it out" - but only
> _generally_ ].
I guessed that it would be that way. I'm all for making an effort with
Scottish Hill names, but that one seems to bamboozle the majority - and god
knows, I'm no expert! I settled on that pronunciation as (a) I've heard
some people who should know how to pronounce it say it that way, and (b)
it's easy to say. A defensible law of least resistance. I have heard
Leo-goch and Lee-attack defended as the One True Way as well, though I've
never had the knowledge, energy or all-round arsedness to argue - or to
change my pronunciation.
> My own view is that it is more sensible to climb it than to pronounce
> it.
Strangely I haven't yet, but at least I'm prepared for when someone asks
'what did you do today?'. One for the (hopefully near) future.
T.
Gordon Harris
>I've been poring over the map of Scotland, but no sooner to I begin to
>develop an idea of where I might like to walk than I forget where it
>was, because I can't begin to pronounce about 95% of the place names.
>
>Is it all a malignant plot to keep nesh Southerners out?
>
>How on earth does anyone ever tell anyone else where they've been? Or
>do those in the know just make a few gutteral grunting noises and make
>it up as they go along?
>
--
Gordon Harris
AndyP
> 1. Ignore Ralph Storer! Before I became a munro-bagger I followed his
> routes and climbed the middle 2 peaks of the South Shiel Ridge. Middle
> two? What use was that!! Any decent guide would have told you to get
> off your bum and do the whole ridge, 7 munros and all. Which I did
> several years later, feeling aggrieved that I was having to repeat a
> couple because of Ralph Storer.
Ralph does say in '100 Best Routes...' "The South Glen Shiel Ridge contains
no less than seven Munros, which can easily be ticked off in a day...". I
haven't done all the route up Aonach Air Chrith he describes but the knife
edge section of it which you'd miss out if you just bagged the Munro
traversing the main ridge is quite spectacular as I remember from several
years ago. Some of his routes are certainly best ignored but I don't think
that's one of them.
Peewiglet
:-)
<fx: whispers... Kewl...>
RJ Webb
>Just wait 'til you start on Wales!
That is the easiest country in the world for pronouncable hill
names... I miss them as I struggle with Meallan Liath Coire Mhic
Dhughaill and Ben Tee.
Richard Webb
RJ Webb
Cobbler, Saddle, Broad Law ....
Richard Webb
SteveO
wrote:
>>Lets all try to annoy BeauGeste after 3. 1 - 2 - 3 KEWL!!!
>>
> :-)
>
>
><fx: whispers... Kewl...>
KKKEEEWWWLLL!!!
Kewl is just one of the Coolest wurdz, after Cool I'd say, akshally
no, I'd put Kewl! Before Kewl and both before Cool!
SteveO
--
NE Climbers & walkers chat forum;
http://www.thenmc.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php
NMC website: http://www.thenmc.org.uk
Sandy Birrell
> Michael Farthing wrote
>
>>> And quite right too. Just to recap then Michael, you pronounce
>>> Liathach how...?
>> :-)
>
> Good, that's how it was meant!
>
>> Llee ach
>> [ie. It follows Farthing Para 1: "if in doubt, miss it out" - but
>> only _generally_ ].
>
Somewhere in the dark recesses of my mind I remember an interview with
Sorley Maclean, the Gaelic poet, and in it he was asked how various place
names should be pronounced, Liathach was one of them. If I remember right he
said it depended on where the gaelic speaker came from but the general
pronounciation and that used by the locals was Lia Gach, the 'g' being a
sort of stop of the tounge on the back of the pallet like a soft 'c' as in
loch.
As you can see by this map of 1832 it was spelt Leagach.
shorter link
http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2223690A
--
Don`t Worry, Be Happy
Sandy
--
E-Mail:- ne...@ftscotland.co.uk
Website:- http://www.ftscotland.co.uk
Looking for a webhost? Try http://www.1and1.co.uk/?k_id=2966019
BeauGeste
Hmm - God know if this has already been posted - why doesn't stuff just
work...? Bah humbug... Anyway, as I was saying...
1. Ignore Ralph Storer! Before I became a munro-bagger I followed his
routes and climbed the middle 2 peaks of the South Shiel Ridge. Middle
two? What use was that!! Any decent guide would have told you to get
off your bum and do the whole ridge, 7 munros and all. Which I did
several years later, feeling aggrieved that I was having to repeat a
couple because of Ralph Storer.
2. I hate the use of the word 'kewl'! Please bring back flogging for
all who should know better...
3. Finally, more to the point, I just try and pronounce the Scottish
BeauGeste
ok I'm drunk now, after the office christmas dinner but...
1. Ignore Ralph Storer! Before I became a munro-bagger I followed his
Phil Cook
>As you can see by this map of 1832 it was spelt Leagach.
>
>http://193.130.15.3:80/lizardtech/iserv/getimage?cat=Maps&item=/74400155.sid&cp=0.24362882059097454,0.10867558837101983&lev=1&wid=700&hei=500&
>
>shorter link
>http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2223690A
>
I like that spelling of Bealach :-)
Roy
"Phil Cook" <u-r-...@p-t-cook.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:abi0s05ok9fc8kbbu...@4ax.com...
> On 14 Dec 2004 16:41:20 -0800, BeauGeste wrote:
>
> >1. Ignore Ralph Storer! Before I became a munro-bagger I followed his
> >routes and climbed the middle 2 peaks of the South Shiel Ridge. Middle
> >two? What use was that!! Any decent guide would have told you to get
> >off your bum and do the whole ridge, 7 munros and all. Which I did
> >several years later, feeling aggrieved that I was having to repeat a
> >couple because of Ralph Storer.
>
> Fine. But Storer never said his book was intended for Munro Baggers
> did he? No, just the best 100 routes on Scottish Mountains. He's a bit
> over-keen on steep (do I someone say precipitous?) grass slopes for
> descent but that book is one of the best of it's kind.
I was going to say that's why Storer didn't call his book "Munro bagging for
purile tickers" but you sort of beat me to it.
Kewl!!!
Roy.
Sandy Birrell
> On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 20:13:41 GMT, Sandy Birrell wrote:
>
>> As you can see by this map of 1832 it was spelt Leagach.
>>
>> http://193.130.15.3:80/lizardtech/iserv/getimage?cat=Maps&item=/74400155.sid&cp=0.24362882059097454,0.10867558837101983&lev=1&wid=700&hei=500&
>>
>> shorter link
>> http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2223690A
>>
>
> I like that spelling of Bealach :-)
An english speaker writing down names as he hears them pronounced by the
people of the area, as you read through old maps you come across some
crackers :)
Phil Cook
>Phil Cook wrote:
>> On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 20:13:41 GMT, Sandy Birrell wrote:
>>
>>> As you can see by this map of 1832 it was spelt Leagach.
>>>
>>> http://193.130.15.3:80/lizardtech/iserv/getimage?cat=Maps&item=/74400155.sid&cp=0.24362882059097454,0.10867558837101983&lev=1&wid=700&hei=500&
>>>
>>> shorter link
>>> http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2223690A
>>>
>>
>> I like that spelling of Bealach :-)
>
>An english speaker writing down names as he hears them pronounced by the
>people of the area, as you read through old maps you come across some
>crackers :)
I've just had a look at the Scotish Library maps online and have found
Ben Liughach on Bartholomew's 1892 map.
How do you get to the URL to show a specific area of map Sandy?
BeauGeste
You know, Grahm, I think you're right!
Incidentally I appear to have been expunged. Oops. Was it that bad?
Sorry for raving but I have long-standing traditions of being a prat to
uphold at this time of year. Apologies if necessary.
Adrian Tupper
news:0aqur0hsalb8prgs5...@4ax.com:
> I've been poring over the map of Scotland, but no sooner to I begin to
> develop an idea of where I might like to walk than I forget where it
> was, because I can't begin to pronounce about 95% of the place names.
>
> Is it all a malignant plot to keep nesh Southerners out?
>
> How on earth does anyone ever tell anyone else where they've been? Or
> do those in the know just make a few gutteral grunting noises and make
> it up as they go along?
>
>
> Enquiring minds want to know...
>
>
> (And can anyone please tell me how to pronounce Lairig Ghru??)
That's one of the easier ones. Take a look at some of the peaks
in the Afric and Cannich areas.
--
Adrian
Lachie
>Tony Buckley wrote:
>> Michael Farthing wrote
>>
>>>> And quite right too. Just to recap then Michael, you pronounce
>>>> Liathach how...?
>>> :-)
>>
>> Good, that's how it was meant!
>>
>>> Llee ach
>>> [ie. It follows Farthing Para 1: "if in doubt, miss it out" - but
>>> only _generally_ ].
>>
>
>Somewhere in the dark recesses of my mind I remember an interview with
>Sorley Maclean, the Gaelic poet, and in it he was asked how various place
>names should be pronounced, Liathach was one of them.
It was the preamble to Muriel's Munro Show, it was pronounced by him, a
Skye speaker as you said. However an Islay or Harris speaker would
pronounce it quite differently.
>If I remember right he
>said it depended on where the gaelic speaker came from but the general
>pronounciation and that used by the locals was Lia Gach, the 'g' being a
>sort of stop of the tounge on the back of the pallet like a soft 'c' as in
>loch.
>
>As you can see by this map of 1832 it was spelt Leagach.
--
Lachie.
Biggles: Miss Bladder, take a letter. Miss Bladder: Yes, Señor Biggles.
Biggles: Don't call me "Señor!" I'm not a Spanish person. You must call me Mr.
Biggles or Group Captain Biggles, or Mary Biggles if I'm dressed as my wife, but
never "Señor!"
BeauGeste
might have been because he could spell puerile.
Adrian Tupper
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
> Finally, more to the point, I just try and pronounce the Scottish
> hills in English. So when I've taken a pic on my digital I press the
> record button and say 'This is me at the top of 'Sgoor Fuooar Fuill'
> (Sgurr Fhuar-thuill). Totally mispronounced, of course, but what the
> hell, eh. As long as it means something to you.
Well, why not?
Actually I find some of the pronounciation guides rather pompous.
Take Cairn Gorm. Easy enough, yes? Not according to some publications
thattell you to pronounce the second word "Gorrum". Ignore them.
The Scots pronounciation of all words ending -rm is -rrum. The English
pronounciation is acceptable to an English accent.
Ditto, Carn Dearg etc can be pronounced "Jurg" rather than the
Scots "Jerr-ag" if you're speaking with an English accent.
However there's no excuse when it comes to pronouncing all those "-dh"s
which are silent. And all those "bh"s and "mh"s which are "v"s.
--
Adrian
Sandy Birrell
> On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 20:50:32 GMT, Sandy Birrell wrote:
>
> I've just had a look at the Scotish Library maps online and have found
> Ben Liughach on Bartholomew's 1892 map.
>
> How do you get to the URL to show a specific area of map Sandy?
I'm using Opera . Once you have zoomed in to the part you want you right
click on the picture, that opens a drop down menu, choose 'copy image
address' and you can paste this into another window.
In IE 6 you have to right click the picture, in the drop down menu select
properties, and in there highlite the 'Address: (URL)', right click it and
copy and then paste this into another window.
I hope that is clear :)
Sandy Birrell
> sgrìobh Sandy Birrell
>
> It was the preamble to Muriel's Munro Show, it was pronounced by him,
> a Skye speaker as you said. However an Islay or Harris speaker would
> pronounce it quite differently.
>
That's it, now I remember :) It has been a while since I watched those
videos, must look them out sometime.
Roy
"BeauGeste" <munr...@lineone.net> wrote in message
news:1103148351.1...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> I think the reason he didn't call it "Munro bagging for purile tickers"
> might have been because he could spell puerile.
>
Ah but you missed I said "your" instead of "you're"
Sandy Birrell
"dh" is a muffled 'g' as if you were breathing out as you say it, according
to the website below.
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~fiski/gaelic.html
theo
"Sandy Birrell" <ne...@ftscotland.co.uk> schreef in bericht
news:ss1wd.322$Ar5...@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> Phil Cook wrote:
>> On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 20:13:41 GMT, Sandy Birrell wrote:
>>
>>> As you can see by this map of 1832 it was spelt Leagach.
>>>
>>> http://193.130.15.3:80/lizardtech/iserv/getimage?cat=Maps&item=/74400155.sid&cp=0.24362882059097454,0.10867558837101983&lev=1&wid=700&hei=500&
Hee ! There's copyright on stuff like this. I'll have to call the OS now !
:-)
--
Theo
www.theosphotos.fotopic.net
spongebob
"BeauGeste" <munr...@lineone.net> wrote
> Incidentally I appear to have been expunged. Oops. Was it that bad?
> Sorry for raving but I have long-standing traditions of being a prat
to
> uphold at this time of year. Apologies if necessary.
>
None needed. I've been waiting a long time for a decent troll to get
us going, but you seem a decent chap. Damn. C'mon, somebody do a
Thornbury......It's Christmas!
Graham
spongebob
"Adrian Tupper" <adrian...@totalise.co.uk> wrote
> Actually I find some of the pronounciation guides rather pompous.
> Take Cairn Gorm. Easy enough, yes? Not according to some
publications
> thattell you to pronounce the second word "Gorrum". Ignore them.
> The Scots pronounciation of all words ending -rm is -rrum. The
English
> pronounciation is acceptable to an English accent.
>
Yes, I was thinking how a Yorkshireman would tell someone he was going
to Paris. Eh up love, Ah'm just of t' Pareee fer't weekend!
Graham
RJ Webb
>Yes, I was thinking how a Yorkshireman would tell someone he was going
>to Paris. Eh up love, Ah'm just of t' Pareee fer't weekend!
Only common English versions exist for very few Highland Hills....
(Cairngorm , Ben Nevis etc) Likewise common English versions exist for
only a few French towns, so if you are to invent new ones, in either
case, some sensitivity and taste please......
No Loony bins,or cheesecakes OK!
Save them for Trail.
Richard Webb
Phil Cook
>Only common English versions exist for very few Highland Hills....
>(Cairngorm , Ben Nevis etc) so if you are to invent new ones, some sensitivity and taste please......
>
>No Loony bins,or cheesecakes OK!
Is that another name for Chrysanthemum, the hill otherwise known as
Sgurr nan Ceathreamhnan? Best translated as the beak of the quarters -
from the four corries presumably, except there are five of them.
Tony Buckley
> Is that another name for Chrysanthemum, the hill otherwise known as
> Sgurr nan Ceathreamhnan?
I think this is pronounced 'Kerranan', or at least that's how I pronounce
it. It has transmogrified in my mind into 'Kerrang', the peak of the
leather-clad hairy axe-crasher.
T.
druidh
"Tony Buckley" <a.g.b...@nospam.cclrc.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:cpschm$rs3$1...@mserv2.dl.ac.uk...
druidh
druidh
> On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 10:44:01 GMT, RJ Webb wrote:
>
>>Only common English versions exist for very few Highland Hills....
>>(Cairngorm , Ben Nevis etc) so if you are to invent new ones, some
>>sensitivity and taste please......
>>
>>No Loony bins,or cheesecakes OK!
>
> Is that another name for Chrysanthemum, the hill otherwise known as
> Sgurr nan Ceathreamhnan? Best translated as the beak of the quarters -
> from the four corries presumably, except there are five of them.
Cheesecake is Bidean a'Choire Sheasgaich - near Lurg Mhor
and where did you get Sgurr to be translated into beak :-))
druidh
Phil Cook
>"Phil Cook" <u-r-...@p-t-cook.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:ju73s0l3dmq9kde4h...@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 10:44:01 GMT, RJ Webb wrote:
>>>
>>>No Loony bins,or cheesecakes OK!
>>
>> Is that another name for Chrysanthemum
>
>Cheesecake is Bidean a'Choire Sheasgaich - near Lurg Mhor
Doh! Of course.
>
>and where did you get Sgurr to be translated into beak :-))
I haven't the faintest idea. It's not like p and b are near each other
on the kb and I haven't touched a drop for all of two days...
RJ Webb
>>and where did you get Sgurr to be translated into beak :-))
>
>I haven't the faintest idea. It's not like p and b are near each other
>on the kb and I haven't touched a drop for all of two days...
Subconcious soft mutation..... Been studying Welsh at any time in
your life/Welsh speaking relatives?
Richard Webb
Chris Gilbert
Sandy Birrell wrote:
> Somewhere in the dark recesses of my mind I remember an interview
with
> Sorley Maclean, the Gaelic poet, and in it he was asked how various
place
> names should be pronounced, Liathach was one of them. If I remember
right he
> said it depended on where the gaelic speaker came from but the
general
> pronounciation and that used by the locals was Lia Gach, the 'g'
being a
> sort of stop of the tounge on the back of the pallet like a soft 'c'
as in
> loch.
Sorley was the standard reference for pronunciation on The Munro Show,
which is where you probably saw it. He did indeed say it should be
pronounced as you say but he also said that it was something of an
anomoly.
Chris
Adrian Tupper
@usenet.plus.net:
>
>>Yes, I was thinking how a Yorkshireman would tell someone he was going
>>to Paris. Eh up love, Ah'm just of t' Pareee fer't weekend!
>
>
> Only common English versions exist for very few Highland Hills....
> (Cairngorm , Ben Nevis etc)
So Cairngorm (Engligh pronounciation) is OK but <anything else>Gorm
should be said with a Scots dialect?
Going back to the French analogy, even cities which don't have English
equivalents (and I think only Paris and Dunkirk do) will be pronounced
differently in a French accent. We say Mont-Pell-Ear but they say
Mon-Pur-Li'ay (and we both write Montpellier) and we still understand
each other!
--
Adrian
RJ Webb
>Going back to the French analogy, even cities which don't have English
>equivalents (and I think only Paris and Dunkirk do) will be pronounced
>differently in a French accent. We say Mont-Pell-Ear but they say
>Mon-Pur-Li'ay (and we both write Montpellier) and we still understand
>each other!
>
What gets my goat is the ignornat inventions of new English names for
place names in countries that use a different alphabet as if it is
our own.
Fortunately we got the Russian ones right, Moscow instead of Mockba,
but why do folk piss on Welsh names in that manner.
Anglicisations are not bad, but they should be like they used to be,
based on the sound of the original, not the spelling.(see Irish hill
names, or Cairngorm. ( I use Cairngorm for the Glen More one and Carn
Gorm for the other 4, but thats just my habit)
eg.. Carneths iso Carneds
Also places like Wales and parts of England, Transylvania etc that
have different languages often use totally different names for places
in their respective languages. Llanandras - Presteigne , Llwydlo -
Ludlow , Brasso - Brasov - Kronstadt etc. The spelling of Paris in
English is probably a coincidence, its a different word.
A lot of peaks in the Mamores have English names...These are used by
locals in Kinlochleven. They are often translations of the Gaelic ,
they are genuine English names. Not clumsy puns and no need to try and
work out what version of Na Gruagaichean to use...
Richard Webb
druidh
"Adrian Tupper" <adrian...@totalise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Xns95C2A...@194.247.47.119...
Actually, I'd say Mon-Pur-Li'ay too - but them I'm from Edinburgh and grew
up near Montpellier Park and we always pronounced it the French way. Must be
all that Franco-Scottish crossover stuff. Like Petty France (actually Petit
France) where the new Infirmary is.
druidh
RJ Webb
>Actually, I'd say Mon-Pur-Li'ay too - but them I'm from Edinburgh and grew
>up near Montpellier Park and we always pronounced it the French way. Must be
>all that Franco-Scottish crossover stuff. Like Petty France (actually Petit
>France) where the new Infirmary is.
Just asked a local('er indoors), and the pronounciation was pretty
standard English. As it was for the town with BF square....
BTW I am hopefully moving to that part of town soon, having been
kicked out of the current flat.
Richard Webb
Bernard Hill
Gilbert <chris_...@ntlworld.com> writes
Speaking of the Munro show, were there ever more than 2 videos of that?
I'd love to have seen more.
--
Bernard Hill
Selkirk, Scotland
Simon Caldwell
wrote:
>
>How on earth does anyone ever tell anyone else where they've been? Or
>do those in the know just make a few gutteral grunting noises and make
>it up as they go along?
http://www.smc.org.uk/books/books_hill_names.htm
Not just pronunciations but background information too.
--
York Alpine Club - http://www.yorkalpineclub.org.uk
Recent Photos - http://climbing.me.uk
Old Photos - http://www.simon-caldwell.co.uk
My Brother's Photos - http://www.caldwellcreations.co.uk
druidh
"Bernard Hill" <Ber...@braeburn.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Qn9cUKHd...@braeburn.demon.co.uk...
The videos were extracts of the two series. Although the actual hillwalking
bits are fine, the other articles (e.g. access law, mountain bikes) haven't
aged very well. As for the fashions . . . .
The very worst thing is that they tried to follow it up with a quiz - The
Golden Cagoule - which really was cringeworthy.
druidh
Simon Caldwell
<a.g.b...@nospam.cclrc.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>And quite right too. Just to recap then Michael, you pronounce Liathach
>how...?
The bloke in the kilt who used to live in the derelict caravan by the
campsite in Torridon (and who now seems to live in one of the
(council?) houses there) was quite adamant that the correct
pronunciation is as it's spelled, ie Lee-ath-ach.
And he should know.
Adrian Tupper
@usenet.plus.net:
> What gets my goat is the ignornat inventions of new English names for
> place names in countries that use a different alphabet as if it is
> our own.
>
Ancient ignorance. Like Jehova for God, which comes from the latin
writing of the hebrew Yahweh (=Jhvh in latin). Place names follow
the same pattern.
> Fortunately we got the Russian ones right, Moscow instead of Mockba,
> but why do folk piss on Welsh names in that manner.
Ignorance? But then again, why not put an s on the end of a Welsh
mountain to make it plural?
>
> Anglicisations are not bad, but they should be like they used to be,
> based on the sound of the original, not the spelling.(see Irish hill
> names, or Cairngorm. ( I use Cairngorm for the Glen More one and Carn
> Gorm for the other 4, but thats just my habit)
>
> eg.. Carneths iso Carneds
>
> Also places like Wales and parts of England, Transylvania etc that
> have different languages often use totally different names for places
> in their respective languages. Llanandras - Presteigne , Llwydlo -
> Ludlow , Brasso - Brasov - Kronstadt etc. The spelling of Paris in
> English is probably a coincidence, its a different word.
>
The Welsh do it with English names too. Bwcle for Buckley. Wrecsam
for Wrexham etc. I know these places are in Wales but the names are
English ones.
Porthmadog is a more extreme example.
> A lot of peaks in the Mamores have English names...These are used by
> locals in Kinlochleven. They are often translations of the Gaelic ,
> they are genuine English names. Not clumsy puns and no need to try and
> work out what version of Na Gruagaichean to use...
A bit like The Cobbler then.
--
Adrian
Adrian Tupper
news:SEYwd.29228$Rf4....@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk:
Good for you.
I'd separately heard that the Edinburgh version of the French city
(spelled with just one L for some odd reason) was pronounced
Mont-Peel-Eeya. Again from a local. Perhaps he lived on the other
side of the road from you, as it were ;-)
My favourite Edinburgh-French crossover is Burdiehouse, which
comes from Bordeaux House. Quite why that had to change I don't
know. Especially as Picardy Place survived in its original spelling.
--
Adrian
Phil Cook
>On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 13:31:31 -0000, "Tony Buckley"
><a.g.b...@nospam.cclrc.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>>And quite right too. Just to recap then Michael, you pronounce Liathach
>>how...?
>
>The bloke in the kilt who used to live in the derelict caravan by the
>campsite in Torridon (and who now seems to live in one of the
>(council?) houses there) was quite adamant that the correct
>pronunciation is as it's spelled, ie Lee-ath-ach.
>
>And he should know.
Could it be that he coughed in the middle of Lee-ach?
If he's living in one of the houses then perhaps we will get some
sleep next time we visit.
I noticed that the woman that sometimes comes round to collect the
money had a new moped a year or two back. You could tell she had been
by with the old one by the pall of smoke.
spongebob
"Simon Caldwell" <simonjc...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:4mgbs0l63lstsjpmb...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:57:02 GMT, "spongebob" <Gr...@m.com> wrote:
>
> >>
> >Yes, I did wonder how much Gaelic varies across Western Scotland
> >(Liathach being the one everyone debates about -th =g or th =
> >silent?). The language is supposed to be logical, yet there seems
to
> >be room for dispute?
>
>
> The bloke in the kilt who used to live in the derelict caravan by
the
> campsite in Torridon (and who now seems to live in one of the
> (council?) houses there) was quite adamant that the correct
> pronunciation is as it's spelled, ie Lee-ath-ach.
Well there you go then. Torridon is the only place that pronounces
*th* the English way!
Graham
Lachie
sparing prose of Rambaud and displaying the suave and sophisticated
disposition of Archibald Leach, sgrìobh Simon Caldwell
>On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 13:31:31 -0000, "Tony Buckley"
><a.g.b...@nospam.cclrc.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>>And quite right too. Just to recap then Michael, you pronounce Liathach
>>how...?
>
>The bloke in the kilt who used to live in the derelict caravan by the
>campsite in Torridon (and who now seems to live in one of the
>(council?) houses there) was quite adamant that the correct
>pronunciation is as it's spelled, ie Lee-ath-ach.
>
>And he should know.
>
Well it is a good job Sorley Maclean is deid then?
--
Llachie.
Hezakiah 14:10 - Na chwennych dafad dy gymydog, oblegid myfi yr Arglwydd dy
Dduw, wyf Dduw eiddigus...
Michael Farthing
<simonjc...@ntlworld.com> writes
>On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 13:31:31 -0000, "Tony Buckley"
><a.g.b...@nospam.cclrc.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>>And quite right too. Just to recap then Michael, you pronounce Liathach
>>how...?
>
>The bloke in the kilt who used to live in the derelict caravan by the
>campsite in Torridon (and who now seems to live in one of the
>(council?) houses there) was quite adamant that the correct
>pronunciation is as it's spelled, ie Lee-ath-ach.
>
>And he should know.
>
Should he?
He's not the chap that was one of the original 7-up kids in the
programme done for ITV around 1965 is he? (They do a revisit every 7
years, but each time they find it even harder to get the originals to
take part). If so, he came from Brum or Liverpool or Glasgow or
somewhere else sassenach, forgotten just where..
--
Michael Farthing
Aardvark Ltd
Adrian Tupper
news:OQ2jE2YB...@paradise.by.the.dashboard.light:
> Capturing in this missive on, Sun, 19 Dec 2004, at 18:11:45, with the
> sparing prose of Rambaud and displaying the suave and sophisticated
> disposition of Archibald Leach, sgrìobh Simon Caldwell
>
>>On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 13:31:31 -0000, "Tony Buckley"
>><a.g.b...@nospam.cclrc.ac.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>And quite right too. Just to recap then Michael, you pronounce
Liathach
>>>how...?
>>
>>The bloke in the kilt who used to live in the derelict caravan by the
>>campsite in Torridon (and who now seems to live in one of the
>>(council?) houses there) was quite adamant that the correct
>>pronunciation is as it's spelled, ie Lee-ath-ach.
>>
>>And he should know.
>>
>
>
> Well it is a good job Sorley Maclean is deid then?
Now spell his name the gaelic way.
--
Adrian
Adrian Tupper
news:avpJqPCl...@cyclades.demon.co.uk:
I wouldn't shout that too loud in a Glasgow pub if I were you..
--
Adrian
Lachie
http://www.isbuc.co.uk/People/SomMac.htm
--
Lachie Macquarie.
"Suerte que mis pechos sean pequenos, y no los confundas con montanas."
Ripoll.
Simon Caldwell
<m...@cyclades.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>The bloke in the kilt who used to live in the derelict caravan by the
>>campsite in Torridon (and who now seems to live in one of the
>>(council?) houses there) was quite adamant that the correct
>>pronunciation is as it's spelled, ie Lee-ath-ach.
>>
>>And he should know.
>>
>
>Should he?
>He's not the chap that was one of the original 7-up kids in the
>programme done for ITV around 1965 is he?
I doubt it, he's extremely local.
Peter Clinch
> The bloke in the kilt who used to live in the derelict caravan by the
> campsite in Torridon (and who now seems to live in one of the
> (council?) houses there) was quite adamant that the correct
> pronunciation is as it's spelled, ie Lee-ath-ach.
>
> And he should know.
I've heard several different pronunciations over the years, several from
people who "should know" and were quite adamant about it. They can't
all be right...
(I usually go for Lee-a-t(h)ach myself, as I just like the sound of it).
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
Simon Caldwell
<p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>I've heard several different pronunciations over the years, several from
>people who "should know" and were quite adamant about it. They can't
>all be right...
Unless of course there are several equally valid pronunciations.
Scoan or skon?
;-)
Sandy Birrell
> On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 08:44:39 +0000, Peter Clinch
> <p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>> I've heard several different pronunciations over the years, several
>> from people who "should know" and were quite adamant about it. They
>> can't all be right...
>
> Unless of course there are several equally valid pronunciations.
>
> Scoan or skon?
>
> ;-)
Scoon :)
--
Don`t Worry, Be Happy
Sandy
--
E-Mail:- ne...@ftscotland.co.uk
Website:- http://www.ftscotland.co.uk
Looking for a webhost? Try http://www.1and1.co.uk/?k_id=2966019
Peter Clinch
> On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 08:44:39 +0000, Peter Clinch
> <p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>I've heard several different pronunciations over the years, several from
>>people who "should know" and were quite adamant about it. They can't
>>all be right...
>
>
> Unless of course there are several equally valid pronunciations.
Entirely possible, but in that case the adamant folk still can't all be
right because they're saying this is *the* way it's pronounced...
> Scoan or skon?
One of them wee cakey biscuit thingies with heaps of jam and cream and a
pot of tea! ;-)
Having been born and raised in South East England, moved to the Midlands
for University, shared flats with Northerners and then moved to Scotland
my own set of favoured pronunciations is quite a mixed bag! Add that to
an unusual accent (one of those cases where the first time you hear a
recording of yourself you've no idea who it is, and it sounds totally
different inside) and it's fairly atypical for people to place where I
come from just from my speech.
RJ Webb
>Having been born and raised in South East England, moved to the Midlands
>for University, shared flats with Northerners and then moved to Scotland
>my own set of favoured pronunciations is quite a mixed bag! Add that to
>an unusual accent (one of those cases where the first time you hear a
>recording of yourself you've no idea who it is, and it sounds totally
>different inside) and it's fairly atypical for people to place where I
>come from just from my speech.
I am a bit similar... Scots / Herefordshire vocab in a strange
westcountryish accent. (resident in Somerset during childhood) Been
accused of coming from Portsmouth, which is the biggest British city
that I have never visited. Kids find it very confusing and its the
first question I get asked....
Usually accused of being a farmer (well close) but I judging by the
chatter at the back, I have now been outed as a pirate...
Richard Webb
Adrian Tupper
@usenet.plus.net:
> Been
> accused of coming from Portsmouth, which is the biggest British city
> that I have never visited.
Mine is Aberdeen. Although I have only driven through Bristol.
--
Adrian
Adrian Tupper
@individual.net:
> Simon Caldwell wrote:
>
>> The bloke in the kilt who used to live in the derelict caravan by the
>> campsite in Torridon (and who now seems to live in one of the
>> (council?) houses there) was quite adamant that the correct
>> pronunciation is as it's spelled, ie Lee-ath-ach.
>>
>> And he should know.
>
> I've heard several different pronunciations over the years, several from
> people who "should know" and were quite adamant about it. They can't
> all be right...
>
> (I usually go for Lee-a-t(h)ach myself, as I just like the sound of it).
>
> Pete.
I used to, until someone assured me it was Lee-ag-ach. But that didn't
sound especially gaelic so I settled for Lee-a(g)h-ach. i.e the middle
consonnant is slightly softer than the last.
--
Adrian
mwp...@googlemail.com
Graham Seed
that the German language was fairly easy to follow as it was logical
whereas English was a minefield, demonstrated when we were on the
Worcester and Birmingham canal - as we passed a foreign couple on a boat
going the other way they shouted out that 'Wer-chester' was a lovely place!
Gaelic is fairly logical too once you know the rules.
Graham
Tim Jackson
> You say that but English is much worse. My German friend pointed out
> that the German language was fairly easy to follow as it was logical
> whereas English was a minefield,
>
translating the labels on various historical agricultural implements for
my benefit.
Eventually I realised what he meant by a "pluff".
> Gaelic is fairly logical too once you know the rules.
up Corn Du in the Brecon Beacons. They pointed to Llyn Cwm Llwch on
their map and asked how on earth you could pronounce something with no
vowels. I explained that 'w' and 'y' are vowels in Welsh.
Mind you, I've no idea how the Welsh rules work to modify consonants at
the beginnings of words, e.g. fawr and mawr; fach and bach.
--
Tim Jackson
ne...@timjackson.invalid
(Change '.invalid' to '.plus.com' to reply direct)
Peter Clinch
> On 27/05/2017 9:44 AM, mwp...@googlemail.com wrote:
>> Larik groo. The pass of Drew.
>>
> You say that but English is much worse. My German friend pointed out
> that the German language was fairly easy to follow as it was logical
> whereas English was a minefield, demonstrated when we were on the
> Worcester and Birmingham canal - as we passed a foreign couple on a boat
> going the other way they shouted out that 'Wer-chester' was a lovely place!
Came down with a very bad cough
She wasn't to Know
It would last until now
I just hope the poor girl will pull through
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk http://medphys.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/