Is it possible that there could be more than one breed of haggis some four
legged and some three?
Regards
--
Bernard
>I have always believed that the there two short one and two
>long ones. The long and the short legs make it possible to run round hills
>and mountains.
Yes, this is my understanding as well. Like you I've yet to spot a wild
one. Thought I saw one once out of the corner of my eye while walking
through the Laraig Noe but it was just a trick of the light. Sure I
saw a flock of them scampering along the skyline of A'Chralaig but
by the time I'd got my binoc's out they'd gone. A friend assures me
that they can be seen grazing on Ben Chonzie on clear August nights,
their peculiar body processses contributing in some small, idiosynchratic
way to the taste of the whiskey made from the waters of the Turret Burn.
Chris
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Dundee University & Teaching Hospitals
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 3637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
Giles
--
Giles Ayling
(This information was first printed on a marketing brochure for a certain
blend of fine scottish whisky from which the name escapes me at teh moment -
but I remember them producing ceramic minature Haggii - the distributor was
Gordon & Macphail of Elgin)
Pete
It seems to me that the dextral and sinistral haggi must be two separate
species since for a male sinistral haggis to attempt to mate a dextral
female would involve his turning round on a slope. This would cause him to
become unstable and roll down the hill, having not accomplished his aim.
If however, like the elephant, the haggis has a prehensile penis, the two
varieties could successfully mate. This may then create a third variety with
all four legs of the same size able only to walk directly up or down hills,
never being able to turn and eventually plunging lemming-like into the sea
(unless the haggis was lucky enough to be born pointing south, in which case
it could live a happy and fulfilling life, frollicking to and fro here on
the plains of Albion).
Other problems which I can't be bothered to answer include:
Can the unidextrous haggi of the north change altitude? If not, presumably
they would wear little trails along the sides of mountains. Did these
inspire the early mapping pioneers to invent contours? Are there herds of
haggis borealis roaming the fens of East Anglia?
Science needs to know...
=====
Steve Buss
Hydrogeology Research Group
Department of Earth Sciences
University of Birmingham
srb...@nospam.bham.ac.uk
My understanding is that Haggi have two long and two short legs. The
short legs are one side, the long legs the other. They can therefore
run only one way round a mountain (the longer set of legs being
further down the mountain thus keeping the haggis level at all times)
Therein lies the secret of catching haggi. All you need are two
people. One chases the haggi the wrong way round the mountain (so that
its short legs are further down the mountain and it consequently
topples over) and another with a net below, to catch it.
But think about it for a moment - why has the haggis never been caught ?
(the Burns Haggis is widely regarded as a butchers confection.....) Simply
because they *DO* have the limb configuration I have described. . . . .
and are therefore able to disappear into their lodges at great speed. If
they had two long an two short legs then it would be just two simple to
capture them........
B-)
Pete
>A television programme on Saturday stated that a Haggis has three legs.
>This apparently consists of one short one on one side and two longs on the
>other side. I have always believed that the there two short one and two
>long ones. The long and the short legs make it possible to run round hills
>and mountains. I have only ever been walking in the hills and mountains of
>Scotland once and unfortunately I did not see any haggis in the wild.
>However those of you who are experienced in the Scottish hills will have
>more experience and may actually have seen wild haggis.
>
>Is it possible that there could be more than one breed of haggis some four
>legged and some three?
>
>Regards
THERE ARE THREE LEGS the short one always facing uphill so the body is
always level untill it is cornered then it runs round in a circuit
till it blows a fuse.
Neil
>Ah yes - thats very correct according to recent folklore.
>
>But think about it for a moment - why has the haggis never been caught ?
I always understood that you could catch a haggis by waiting at the
bottom of a likely slope with a set of bagpipes at the ready. You
wait quietly until you see a haggis traversing the slope. Then you
play the bagpipes, which gives the poor creature sucha fright that it
turns and tries to run the other way. since it then has its long
leg(s) higher up than the short one(s), it loses its balance and
tumbles down the hill into your waiting arms (or a net, if you've had
the forethought to bring one with you).
By the way I'm not sure that the plural of haggis can be haggi. The
-i ending is OK for words like cactus and discus. Haggis belongs to
the Latin 3rd declension (like axis and oasis). Its plural therefore
must be hagges. Sorry to be pedantic, but a serious subject like this
deserves appropriate treatment.
Giles Ayling wrote in message ...
>You have to remember of course that you do have tha Left & Right Handed
>varieties to consider, I am not sure if the two types live on the same
>hills, or if it is a tribal thing, with hills only having one type??
>
>Giles
>--
>Giles Ayling
The left handed and right handed haggises coexist quite happily on the same
hills, one lot going clockwise and the others anti-clockwise. For obvious
reasons, there is no interbreeding!
Nick Wilson
Do not use Reply function without removing the word
'delete' from the address.
ni...@wilson58.demon.co.uk
http://www.wilson58.demon.co.uk
No - never the Irish whiskey, but always teh Scotch WHISKY.
Pete
Interesting theory on teh methodology of catching the haggis - I hadn't
heard of that one and must try it out soon......... FX[puff puff blaw
blaw...... pheeeep !!! ]
Re the collective term - wouldn't local tradition take precedence for
generalisation - thus we have YETI in common parlance, so we should really
be using "beastie" to describe the haggis.
Pete
(in deep deep meditation)
Cheers, Roger
--
Roger Caffin (Dr)
Director
Berrilee Consulting Services P/L
5 Charltons Ck Rd
Berrilee NSW 2159
Australia
All the usual disclaimers apply....
Remove obvious antispam Xs from signature
> The left handed and right handed haggises coexist quite happily on the same
^^^^^^ ^^^^^^
Haggi do not have hands!
> hills, one lot going clockwise and the others anti-clockwise. For obvious
> reasons, there is no interbreeding!
This is a commonly held belief but a bit of thinking about it will show how
erroneous it is. A left-legged haggis never in fact encounters another
left-legger but just meets right-leggers coming the other way. Consequently
ONLY cross-breeding occurs. This has led to the curious variation
on the remote island of Ghin where the orientation of the haggis legs has
become genetically associated with their sex: the left-legged haggi are
are all male and the right-legged are all female. On the nearly island
of Baiconn a similar situation exists but with the orientations reversed.
It has been surmised that this is in fact where Darwin first started thinking
about the principles of natural selection, long before he went to the
Galapagos.
--
Michael Farthing
cyclades
software house
Margo> Margo Romberg <URL:mailto:mrom...@bindu.prestel.co.uk>
=> In <URL:news:3504640b...@News.prestel.co.uk>, Margo wrote:
Margo> By the way I'm not sure that the plural of haggis can be haggi.
Margo> The -i ending is OK for words like cactus and discus. Haggis
Margo> belongs to the Latin 3rd declension (like axis and oasis). Its
Margo> plural therefore must be hagges. Sorry to be pedantic, but a
Margo> serious subject like this deserves appropriate treatment.
Last time this topic came up, I suggested "haggishen" (from the
Gaelic, despite haggis being IIRC a Scots word). But it's all a bit
academic - I've never seen more than one at a time in the wild.
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--
Toby Speight <URL:mailto:Toby.S...@digitivity.com>
APM Ltd., Poseidon House, Castle Park, Cambridge.
Hillwalking CB3 0RD. Tel +44 1223 568925, Fax +44 1223 359779
resources <URL:http://www.ansa.co.uk/People/tms/cuhc/resources/>
But, but, but (forgive my innocence) doesn't this mean they meet
head on?
Or do they run in reverse during the breeding season
If so how do they know who (or what) they've met?
No, my vote goes for the clockwise and anticlockwise races.
Jill T.
> Other problems which I can't be bothered to answer include:
> Can the unidextrous haggi of the north change altitude? If not,
> presumably
> they would wear little trails along the sides of mountains. Did these
> inspire the early mapping pioneers to invent contours? Are there herds
> of
> haggis borealis roaming the fens of East Anglia?
H. borealis would certainly be extinct by now, all having sunk into the
swamp mud. Finding fossil evidence would be most unlikely because all
the peat has been recycled as potting compost.
Now if only the haggisen had mobile phones....
--
Mark Madsen, APM Ltd. http://www.ansa.co.uk
Tel: +44-1223-568934 Fax: +44-1223-359779
:-)
Giles
--
Giles Ayling
>>
>>This is a commonly held belief but a bit of thinking about it will show how
>>erroneous it is. A left-legged haggis never in fact encounters another
>>left-legger but just meets right-leggers coming the other way. Consequently
>>ONLY cross-breeding occurs.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Which 'handedness' is dominant? This has implications for
crossbreeding.
R Webb
Very curious this one.
There are three genes involved. One gene causes leggedness to occur in the
first place and this is actually recessive. However, leggedness has proved
such an overwhelming advantage to the haggis that this recessive gene has
established itself universally in the haggis population and any non-legged
haggi (hagges, haggishen) quickly die before reaching breeding age.
The second gene determines whether leggedness is lateral or frontal. The
operation of this gene is not yet fully understood. It is in fact likely
that a combination of genes is involved, as this area determines a variety
of possible scenarios (eg default left-leggedness, default right-leggedness,
default frontal leggedness - even default diagonal leggedness, though these
individuals rarely survive).
The third gene is located on the x-chromosome and has the effect of reversing
the default leggedness allele described above. Dominance, of course, is
not applicable in this case.
This explains the curious situation on Ghin and Baiconn. On Ghinn the
default leggedness is left, and this gets reversed to right in males,
whereas the reverse is true on Baiconn (or was it the other way round -
can't find my last post to crib from).
The tendency in any isolated community of hagges (I think I like this plural
best) is for one form of leggedness to slowly dominate the community.
A slight imbalance in numbers (lets say a surplus of left-legged females)
gives a competitive advantage to right-legged males, who waste less time
in abortive courtship rituals with fellow males of opposite leggedness.
HTH
Although not from Scotland and never having seen a haggis during my winter
mountaineering visits (perhaps they hibernate), has anybody considered the
possibility of haggii (sp?) sub-species with shorter front legs (running up
mountains and accumulating) or shorter hind legs, only capable of running down
and hence dispersing into the lowlands - resulting in the apparent rarity of
haggii on the mountain tops.
Giles
--
Giles Ayling
Giles,
Ah, but why do you suppose there are all these Cairns ?
Bill
"Say nothing & they think your a fool.
Open your mouth & prove it"
Ta Ta
Giles
--
Giles Ayling
Bernard <ber...@ramsden.globalnet.co.uk> wrote in article
<6dv6ua$muc$1...@heliodor.xara.net>...
> A television programme on Saturday stated that a Haggis has three legs.
> This apparently consists of one short one on one side and two longs on
the
> other side.
========================================================
The haggis my dear sir, and I speak as one with ultimate authority on the
subject of these wee creatures, is born without any legs at all.
This makes them extremely easy to catch and kill of course and many
thousand are slaughtered every year to be eaten locally and usually by the
actual assassin. It also explains why there is such confusion on the
subject of numerate precision on the legs front.
Of course it is well known that yer actual Scot, being a badly educated and
odd kind of a cove is rarely known to be able to count beyond two. Some
might ask "as far as that?" but do remember that when it comes to the
practice of the two fingered salute yer actual Scot has no equal.
Yer average Scot, being steeped in the traditions of cheating and
drunkenness, will never admit to this state of affairs and so, when the odd
haggis finds itself on public display, legs will have been grafted on in
order to convince the innocent southerner that the poor creature had some
kind of a sporting chance when in fact it's fate had been pre ordained
since berth.
It's worth bearing in mind that yer average Scot is a very bad hunter and
therefore uses the ready availability of the static haggis in order to lend
credence to their claims to have the best grouse shooting in Europe.
It may be of interest to readers of this newsgroup to know that during the
actual grouse shooting season more haggis are killed than grouse but
whereas the grouse shoot, requiring some element of skill, mostly involves
the non-native population, the killing of haggis is carried out entirely by
yer actual Scot.
I believe that there are lessons to be learned here and speaking frankly I
do hope yer average Scot learns them.
Richard Corbett
Regards
Bernard
I presume these are most at home traversing knife-edge ridges.
=====
Steve Buss
Hydrogeology Research Group
Department of Earth Sciences
University of Birmingham
srb...@nospam.bham.ac.uk
Look - we've already got umpteen dozen posts on the subject of the
beast's legs, do we really need to start the whole thing off again by
considering its semen?
Tim Forcer t...@ecs.soton.ac.uk
The University of Southampton, UK
The University is not responsible for my opinions
Bernard> Bernard <URL:mailto:ber...@ramsden.globalnet.co.uk>
=> In <URL:news:6ehcvd$n24$1...@heliodor.xara.net>, Bernard wrote:
Bernard> It strikes me that there is obviously potential here for a
Bernard> budding David Bellamy ...
^^^^^^^
Why couldn't I stop myself misreading that as "pudding"? ;-)
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}Look - we've already got umpteen dozen posts on the subject of the
}beast's legs, do we really need to start the whole thing off again by
}considering its semen?
regards, mani.
ma...@mcmail.com
+++
Why?
> as this isn't going to go away quickly, i'm sure.
Great!!
This sassenach has enjoyed the whole thing so far, and hopes it will run
and run.
--
;-) Giles
--
Giles Ayling
It was a joke, mani. Seminal work ? Semen ?
Please remove FFS if responding by email
Ah! You just think that you didn't see any haggis. You see, the haggis
is a very shy, retiring creature believed by many to be extremely self
concious of its unusual appearance, especially the bizarre arrangement
of it's limbs.
Nature however has compensated the haggis for it's exceptional shyness,
and has given it a chameleon-like skill, allowing it to blend into it's
surroundings.
There have been several recorded sightings of haggis donning multi-
pointed headgear and running over the hillside with the herds of deer,
and also of them wearing white fleecy garments, cunningly assembled from
the wool left behind from sheep rubbing against wire fences and the
like.
It is rumoured that the haggis is also capable of flight. They are
thought to be gathering up loose feathers from the hillside, assembling
them into crude 'hang-glider' like devices and launching themeselves
from the mountain tops to glide majestically over the glens.
It may come as a surprise to you, but the golden eagle is in fact
extinct in scotland, and has been for many years. This extinction has
been a closely guarded secret until now, so closely guarded in fact that
no-one has told the haggis!
So next time you see that 'golden eagle' soaring overhead, keep it to
yourself. Remember, if the haggis discover the truth about the eagles
demise, they will be that much harder to spot.
--
Dave McLaughlin
Homo Sapiens Non Urinat In Ventum
No more Mr. Nice Guy - change 'angel' to 'demon' for email
>I have been impressed with the response to my initial post. I thought I was
>asking a simple question, but it is obviously more complex and I suspect the
>surface has only just been scratched. It strikes me that there is obviously
>potential here for a budding David Bellamy or Desmond Morris to undertake
>some research here which would produce a seminal work on the Haggis.
>
I suspect that Desmond Morris in particular would be interested in this
thread...
--
Stuart http://www.boxatrix.demon.co.uk
Yeah, to study the contributors!
--
Gordon
Homo Erectus.
Well..... occasionally.
<Question: how many legs does a haggis have>
Have I missed the (to me) obvious answer of 'it depends on how much
you've had to drink'?
--
Surfer!
http://www.nevis-vieww.demon.co.uk
Hopeful anti-spam: alter double 'w' to single 'w' to view site & send Email.
John
--
Computer 50
The University of Manchester Celebrates the Birth of the Modern Computer
Digital Summer 1998
URL: http://www.computer50.org/
There are. They're called cairns.
>In article <l8H3ECAm...@tvp-uk.demon.co.uk>, Giles Ayling <gi...@tvp-uk.demon.co.uk> writes:
>> In article <6eb09s$4...@web3.tcd.ie>, gbu...@tcd.ie writes
>> >
>> >Although not from Scotland and never having seen a haggis during my winter
>> >mountaineering visits (perhaps they hibernate), has anybody considered the
>> >possibility of haggii (sp?) sub-species with shorter front legs (running up
>> >mountains and accumulating) or shorter hind legs, only capable of running down
>> >and hence dispersing into the lowlands - resulting in the apparent rarity of
>> >haggii on the mountain tops.
>> >
>> >
>> Cunning idea bit in that case, should have a pile of deceased haggis on
>> the tops of the mountains??
>>
>> Giles
>> --
>> Giles Ayling
>
>There are. They're called cairns.
>
> John
Oh! so thats where my family name comes from.
NeilC...@mcmail.com