White and yellow roads on OS maps
Pierre Lavaurs
for roads on Landranger maps ?
Yellow roads are supposed to be "roads generally more than 4m wide" or
"road generally less than 4m wide" while white roads are supposed to be
"other roads, drives or tracks"... Not the clearest information about
the difference.
Might it be that yellow roads are public property, while white roads are
privately owned ?
More important for the walker : while according to the OS "The
representation on this map of any other road, track or path is no
evidence of the existence of a right of way", I have no recollection of
ever meeting a yellow road closed to pedestrian traffic. Does this mean
that in fact a yellow road is always walkable ?
[And, heightening the perspectives opened by my query : I have read
hundreds of times legal information about rights of way, but what are
the legal rules about walking on roads ? I remember roads were not
closed during foot and mouth crisis : is there such a strong legal
obligation to leave them open to pedestrians ?]
--
My walking website : http://www.lavaurs.com
Last update : North of Franche-Comté and Vosges in Lorraine
http://www.lavaurs.com/en/sentiers/H_009
Phil Cook
>Is it possible to understand a meaning under the choice of colors used
>for roads on Landranger maps ?
>
>Yellow roads are supposed to be "roads generally more than 4m wide" or
>"road generally less than 4m wide" while white roads are supposed to be
>"other roads, drives or tracks"... Not the clearest information about
>the difference.
There are two different "yellow roads" on OS maps.One about 1mm wide
which is the wider than 4m and the other about 0.75mm which are the
less than 4m wide ones. It isn't always possible to tell which is
which on the map except when you get both types together.
>
>Might it be that yellow roads are public property, while white roads are
>privately owned ?
It could be that the white roads were not surveyed for width, merely
for position. They are used in built up areas for side streets which
would fall into the normal yellow road but are depicted as white for
clarity
The yellow roads are nearly always public rights of way as are white
ones in built up areas.
>
>More important for the walker : while according to the OS "The
>representation on this map of any other road, track or path is no
>evidence of the existence of a right of way",
I think that is the catch all exclusion clause to protect the OS from
being sued.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"
Chris Street
>Is it possible to understand a meaning under the choice of colors used
>for roads on Landranger maps ?
>
>Yellow roads are supposed to be "roads generally more than 4m wide" or
>"road generally less than 4m wide" while white roads are supposed to be
>"other roads, drives or tracks"... Not the clearest information about
>the difference.
>
>Might it be that yellow roads are public property, while white roads are
>privately owned ?
>
>More important for the walker : while according to the OS "The
>representation on this map of any other road, track or path is no
>evidence of the existence of a right of way", I have no recollection of
>ever meeting a yellow road closed to pedestrian traffic. Does this mean
>that in fact a yellow road is always walkable ?
No - it could be a private road that fits the description - you note
the disclaimer above that is present on all English OS maps.
For an example, look at Clumber Park, which has two yelow roads
through it. These are not open to traffic all the time, and traffic
will be turned away from the entrances when the park is full.
>
>[And, heightening the perspectives opened by my query : I have read
>hundreds of times legal information about rights of way, but what are
>the legal rules about walking on roads ? I remember roads were not
>closed during foot and mouth crisis : is there such a strong legal
>obligation to leave them open to pedestrians ?]
Any road that is open to vehicle traffic, with the exception of a
motorway should be open to horse, foot and pedal cycles as well.
Graham Seed
"Chris Street" <Chr...@message-pad.com> wrote
>
> No - it could be a private road that fits the description - you note
> the disclaimer above that is present on all English OS maps.
>
> For an example, look at Clumber Park, which has two yelow roads
> through it. These are not open to traffic all the time, and traffic
> will be turned away from the entrances when the park is full.
>
yellow roads were maintained by the Council. I thought you could get through
the Clumber Park roads at any time as I thought they were public roads going
through a private estate.
Graham
The Reids
>while white roads are privately owned ?
whites are usually public, but could be anything. (In towns white has
a different function, one of clarity) The "Walna Scar Road" in the
Coniston Fells is marked with the green footpath symbol, but is open
to vehicles, if you have a very serious 4x4!
Unlike footpaths OS have, perhaps understanderbly, fought shy of
saying which roads and tracks are public and which not.
--
Mike Reid
Photos and description of recent trip to the strange "Las Bardenas" area of Spain
"http://www.fell-walker.co.uk/page67.htm"
Yogi Bear
"Pierre Lavaurs" <lavaurs...@free.fr> wrote in message
news:3CCD3404...@free.fr...
The following is my experience and only applies to England; the situation is
different in Scotland and I rarely walk in Wales.
I think the difference is that a yellow road is a C-class road, whereas a
white road is unclassified. The public road network consists of motorways
(blue on Landranger maps), major roads (A-class roads, red), medium roads
(B-class roads, brown), and minor roads (C-class roads, yellow). The local
highway authority is obliged to maintain the C, B and most of the A-class
roads in its area. Really major A-roads ('Trunk roads') and motorways are
maintained by the central government. White roads in rural areas haven't
been adopted by the highway authority and are not maintained by it.
All roads maintained by the highway authority (yellow and upwards) are
public roads open to vehicles. There is a hierarchy of users on English
public highways; powered vehicles, then horses and bicycles, then
pedestrians. With the exception of motorways, any public highway open to
one class of user is automatically also open to all the classes below.
Motorways are a special case and are closed to bicycles, horses and
pedestrians. So all public roads, except motorways, are also open to
horses, bicycles and pedestrians.
Public roads *can* be closed by order of the highway authority, e.g for
repairs, or closed temporarily by the police if there has been an accident
or something and it would be dangerous for traffic to continue to pass. The
highway authorities had the power to close roads during F&M, just as they
had the power to close footpaths and bridleways, but I don't think the power
was used on roads. This isn't because there is a strong legal obligation to
maintain access for pedestrians, it's probably because they couldn't close a
road to pedestrians without also closing it to vehicles, and closing roads
to vehicles would have provoked complaints.
You can assume that any yellow road on an OS Landranger will be walkable.
You can also assume the same for major roads (A-roads, red), and medium
roads (B-roads, brown). The only kind of adopted road you are not allowed
to walk on is a motorway. The level of traffic in rural England is often
surprisingly heavy, so even yellow roads can be unpleasant for walking.
White roads are (I think) not classified as part of the public road network
and not publicly maintained. Some of them are open for public access,
either by right (sometimes called 'Green Lanes') or by custom and practice,
some are private. Annoyingly, OS maps don't generally show which is which.
I believe there is a thing called a Definitive Map which does, but that's
not much use in practice because it's usually only available at the office
of the local highway authority. Some of the newer 1:25,000 OS maps show
some of the white roads that are open to the public.
You're definitely allowed to walk on a white road if it is marked on the OS
map as open to the public. You're quite likely, although not guaranteed, to
be allowed to walk on it if it has rights-of-way marked as terminating on
the white road (because rights-of-way are supposed to go from one public
place to another public place, so that implies that the white road where
they end is a public place), if you've seen it mentioned in a guidebook, or
if it is a named track (e.g. Something Lane, or Old Something Road). Names
are much more likely to be shown on the 1:25,000 maps than the Landrangers.
In all other cases I would assume a white road is private and closed to
walkers.
Hope this is some help.
Yogi
Andrew Kay
"Yogi Bear" <yogi...@jellystone.park> wrote in message
news:aajv8e$k4p$1...@knossos.btinternet.com...
> White roads in rural areas haven't
> been adopted by the highway authority and are not maintained by it.
You can only tell which roads are maintained at public expense by having a
look at the 'List of Streets' that is kept by the Highway Authority. Many
'white' roads *are* maintained by the highway authority. These are usually
known as UCRs (Unclassified County Roads) or UUCRs (Unsealed .....) and
have vehicular rights.
Recently, the Ordnance Survey have started to show which 'white' roads are
on the List of Streets by overlaying them with a series of red dots (on
Landranger maps) or green dots (on Outdoor Leisure 25000 maps). Many of the
footpaths and bridleways shown on OS maps have higher rights - but these are
obscured because the OS are obliged to show the Definitive Map status of a
route, where one exists.
> I believe there is a thing called a Definitive Map which does, but that's
> not much use in practice because it's usually only available at the office
> of the local highway authority.
In England & Wales, Definitive Maps are maintained by the Highway Authority
too. They contain a list of all public rights of way that are used mainly
for walking, horse riding & cycling. These are shown as public rights of
way on Ordnance Survey Landranger & other maps.
Definitive Maps are only 'definitive' in the sense that they are conclusive
evidence of the minimum rights available to the public (i.e. you can
definitely walk on a DM footpath). It is possible that higher rights may
exist e.g. you might have a right to ride a horse on a DM footpath - but
those rights have not yet been recorded on the Definitive Map (because no
one has yet bothered to do the research at the record office or wherever).
> You're quite likely, although not guaranteed, to
> be allowed to walk on it if it has rights-of-way marked as terminating on
> the white road (because rights-of-way are supposed to go from one public
> place to another public place, so that implies that the white road where
> they end is a public place)
Where a footpath or bridleway ends on a 'white' road, the road is almost
certain to be a public carriageway and be available for use by all traffic.
Cheers
Andrew
Andrew Kay
"The Reids" <cleve...@fellwalk.co.uk> wrote in message
news:o60rcuop431ht4utc...@4ax.com...
> whites are usually public, but could be anything. (In towns white has
> a different function, one of clarity) The "Walna Scar Road" in the
> Coniston Fells is marked with the green footpath symbol, but is open
> to vehicles, if you have a very serious 4x4!
> Unlike footpaths OS have, perhaps understanderbly, fought shy of
> saying which roads and tracks are public and which not.
They are obliged to show a Definitive Map public right of way where one
exists.
Where no DM public RoW exists along a 'white' but the road is maintained at
public expense (and is therefore a carriageway) , the Ordnance Survey have
started to show it as an 'Other Route with Public Access' (ORPA) and use a
series of red dots to depict it on Landranger maps. (green dots on 25000
maps)
Cheers
Andrew
Yr Holli (anag.)
news:aajqep$n6p$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "Chris Street" <Chr...@message-pad.com> wrote
> >
> > No - it could be a private road that fits the description - you
note
> > the disclaimer above that is present on all English OS maps.
> >
> > For an example, look at Clumber Park, which has two yelow roads
> > through it. These are not open to traffic all the time, and
traffic
> > will be turned away from the entrances when the park is full.
> >
> Mmm, I must admit, I'm not 100% on this, but my understanding was
that the
> yellow roads were maintained by the Council.
Try Oil Sites Road, Ellesmere Port. Bright yellow on the map. Barriers
come down and are manned by security staff on Christmas Day.
Graham Seed
"Yr Holli (anag.)" <Roy_J...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote
>
> Try Oil Sites Road, Ellesmere Port. Bright yellow on the map. Barriers
> come down and are manned by security staff on Christmas Day.
>
1. Its a cock-up and shoudn't be yellow
or
2. It's a public road and shouldn't be closed.
Otherwise....what's the point? Gross waste of yellow ink if you ask me ;-)
Graham
Boo
> saying which roads and tracks are public and which not.
Well if the OS aren't in a position to do that then WOE is, may I ask ?
--
Boo
Pierre Lavaurs
precise than I expected.
For a Frenchman, used to the general grumbling about "too many
regulations" in his own country, the real level of regulation in the
supposed home country of liberalism and laisser faire is often
astounding !
Yr Holli (anag.)
Knowing the OS, it *has* to be Numero Uno.
But the OS do those sort of things all the time...
Graham Seed
:-b
> But the OS do those sort of things all the time...
>
Wanna fight?
Graham
druidh
a through route marked as yellow on LR66 but the road has a barrier which is
used by the landowners (Edinburgh Park plc perhaps) to limit the volume of
through traffic at busy times. They do not allow learner drivers either.
druidh
"Graham Seed" <r...@gseed.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:aak7a3$ln4$1...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
Martin Richardson
<r...@gseed.freeserve.co.uk> writes
--
Martin Richardson
Simon Caldwell
<lavaurs...@free.fr> wrote:
>
>For a Frenchman, used to the general grumbling about "too many
>regulations" in his own country, the real level of regulation in the
>supposed home country of liberalism and laisser faire is often
>astounding !
If the UK is the home of laisser faire, how come we couldn't even come
up with our own word for it?
--
The York Alpine Club at http://www.yorkalpineclub.org.uk
Outdoor photographs at http://www.simon-caldwell.co.uk
--
Writing about music is like dancing about architecture.
The Reids
>Where no DM public RoW exists along a 'white' but the road is maintained at
>public expense (and is therefore a carriageway) , the Ordnance Survey have
>started to show it as an 'Other Route with Public Access' (ORPA) and use a
>series of red dots to depict it on Landranger maps. (green dots on 25000
>maps)
Yes, but this is on foot access, isnt it?
The Reids
>> Unlike footpaths OS have, perhaps understanderbly, fought shy of
>> saying which roads and tracks are public and which not.
>
>Well if the OS aren't in a position to do that then WOE is, may I ask ?
DOE?
the maps I have specify ROWs (on foot).
"Whites" are "other roads, poor or unmettaled" or "other road drive or
track".
They then go on to say the representation of a road or track does not
indicate a right of way. I have never seen any mention of vehicular
ROW on OS maps? I have always assumed this to mean you have to take
whites as you find them. The Walna Scar Road I was talking about is
marked as a (footpath) ROW on my 1:25000, how can you tell from the
map its legally drivable? (I assume it would be called a green lane?)
I might have considered questioning or reporting the two Land Rovers
churning it up in the middle of winter, but I somehow knew it was a
green lane, but cant remember how I knew, (if I was in fact correct)?
The Reids
> but what are
>the legal rules about walking on roads ? I remember roads were not
>closed during foot and mouth crisis : is there such a strong legal
>obligation to leave them open to pedestrians ?]
Motorways aside, I have only once seen a no entry to pedestrians sign
on a road, just on the south edge of the ELD IIRC. As it appeared to
be a road sign, i'm not sure what you might be charged with, trespass
or a motoring offence! Also I wondered why pedestrians were barred
from this, not more than usually dangerous to pedestrians, road?
David Laight
> Motorways aside, I have only once seen a no entry to pedestrians sign
> on a road,
Often seen on overpasses, underpasses and road tunnels.....
Andy Woodward
>regulations" in his own country, the real level of regulation in the
>supposed home country of liberalism and laisser faire is often
>astounding !
Yeah. We notice that too :(
Andrew Kay
> Following up to "Andrew Kay" <Andre...@nospam.glass-uk.org>
>
> >Where no DM public RoW exists along a 'white' but the road is maintained
at
> >public expense (and is therefore a carriageway) , the Ordnance Survey
have
> >started to show it as an 'Other Route with Public Access' (ORPA) and use
a
> >series of red dots to depict it on Landranger maps. (green dots on 25000
> >maps)
>
> Yes, but this is on foot access, isnt it?
> --
No.
These are unclassified roads and are public carriageways. They can be used
by all traffic, including motor vehicles. If the main use had been on
foot, it would be on the Definitive Map & would be shown as a public right
of way (see key on Landranger maps).
If you have a look at the Ordnance Survey website, you'll see that OS say
that they have only just started showing ORPAs on maps as a result of
pressure from recreational 4x4 drivers. As new issues of Landranger maps
are printed, you will see more ORPAs shown, where previously the road/track
was just a 'white'.
Regards
Andrew Kay
Andrew Kay
> I have never seen any mention of vehicular
> ROW on OS maps?
If you look at the key on OS Landranger maps, you will see BOATs (Byway Open
to All Traffic) and RUPPs (Roads Used as a Public Path). The former are
definitely vehicular ROW and many of the latter are too.
> The Walna Scar Road I was talking about is
> marked as a (footpath) ROW on my 1:25000, how can you tell from the
> map its legally drivable? (I assume it would be called a green lane?)
You often can not tell from Ordnance Survey maps whether a way is legally
drivable. This is for several reasons:
* As a result of pressure originally from R.A. (I believe), the Ordnance
Survey are constrained to show Definitive Map (DM) rights of way where they
exist. A route may be a DM footpath but also be an unclassified road that
is maintained at public expense. These are sometimes known as 'dual
status' routes. As the DM footpath must be shown on the OS map, the
carriageway status can not also be shown.
* OS use a series of red dots (O.R.P.A.) on public unclassified roads that
are not DM ROW on new issues of Landranger maps - but they are not shown on
older maps. These can be legally driven and are also available to walkers,
cyclists and horse riders. NOTE: All routes that are maintainable at
public expense (in England & Wales) are recorded on a 'List of Streets' by
Highway Authorities. The public have a right to inspect these.
* Definitive Maps do not determine what the publics rights are. They are
just a record of the rights available to the public that have been
conclusively proven. Higher rights may exist but not yet have been
identified through research at public record offices or wherever. If you
look at the R.A. website, you will see that they claim to have had over 1000
full time researchers collecting and recording data about ROW in the 50's
when Definitive Maps first came into being. Other users groups did not
have the same resources available to them - and many routes are currently
'under-recorded'.
NOTE: The Walna Scar Road was included in the Lake District National Parks
'Hierarchy of Trail Routes' experiment that has just finished (see LDNPA
website about this). It is *very* unlikely that it would have been
included if it were not a vehicular ROW.
> I might have considered questioning or reporting the two Land Rovers
> churning it up in the middle of winter, but I somehow knew it was a
> green lane, but cant remember how I knew, (if I was in fact correct)?
It would be better if you did report irresponsible use of unsurfaced roads
(along with details of the vehicle - registration numbers & so on) - to the
Highway Authority; to the police if you consider that an offence has been
committed and also to GLASS (see the GLASS website at
http://www.glass-uk.org).
It is not in *anyones* interest for lanes to be un-necessarily 'churned up'
at any time.
Cheers
Andrew
Andy Woodward
>up with our own word for it?
Couldnt be bothered?
Andy Woodward
>> on a road,
There are some on hte Britannia Bridge. Put there by hte council to
prevent suicides.......Really.
Phil Cook
Possibly because the French has a certain je ne sais quoi ;-)
>
Paul Saunders
> There are some on hte Britannia Bridge. Put there by hte council to
> prevent suicides.......Really.
As if that's going to stop them! Do they really think that someone who
wants to kill themselves is going to worry about breaking the law?
Paul
The Reids
>It would be better if you did report irresponsible use of unsurfaced roads
>(along with details of the vehicle - registration numbers & so on) - to the
>Highway Authority; to the police if you consider that an offence has been
>committed and also to GLASS (see the GLASS website at
>http://www.glass-uk.org).
>
>It is not in *anyones* interest for lanes to be un-necessarily 'churned up'
>at any time.
Indeed.
As I remember it the "road" was only climbable because the LR had
specialist tractor type tyres, even then it could only get up sections
of it with a lot of slipping and then winched the second one up. They
were obviously doing it as a challenge. I suppose a quad bike could
have got up without much damage, I hadn't realised there was a
requirement to not damage the surface, but I can see it would make
sense.
--
Mike Reid
Photos and description of the strange "Las Bardenas" area of Spain
"http://www.fell-walker.co.uk/page67.htm"
The Reids
>If you have a look at the Ordnance Survey website, you'll see that OS say
>that they have only just started showing ORPAs on maps as a result of
>pressure from recreational 4x4 drivers. As new issues of Landranger maps
>are printed, you will see more ORPAs shown, where previously the road/track
>was just a 'white'.
Thanks for that, I seem to be well out of date, thanks for updating
me.
I wonder if the new situation will increase or decrease the number of
illegal motor vehicles on paths?
--
Mike Reid
Photos and description of the strange "Las Bardenas" area of Spain
"http://www.fell-walker.co.uk/page67.htm"
Andrew Kay
> Following up to "Andrew Kay" <Andre...@nospam.glass-uk.org>
>
> >If you have a look at the Ordnance Survey website, you'll see that OS say
> >that they have only just started showing ORPAs on maps as a result of
> >pressure from recreational 4x4 drivers. As new issues of Landranger maps
> >are printed, you will see more ORPAs shown, where previously the
road/track
> >was just a 'white'.
>
> Thanks for that, I seem to be well out of date, thanks for updating
> me.
> I wonder if the new situation will increase or decrease the number of
> illegal motor vehicles on paths?
Do you mean vehicles that are not street legal, i.e. not road worthy,
licenced or insured - or do you mean vehicles that you think do not have a
legal right to be there?
I can't see why it should affect the former.
As far as the latter is concerned, it is very difficult to be sure what
rights do exist on a path. The biggest problem is that Definitive Maps (DM)
are not actually definitive. You only have to prove that a public right of
way on foot exists to get a footpath (FP) added to the DM - there is no
requirement to prove that higher rights do not exist.
If a way is shown on a DM as say a FP then all it means is that conclusive
evidence was deemed to exist at the time that the FP was added to the DM
that a public ROW on foot existed. It does not mean that bridleway rights,
for example, do not exist - just that they have not been proven to exist.
I think it is this uncertainty about rights that can often lead to
misunderstandings and sometimes conflict between different user groups.
Cheers
Andrew
Andrew Kay
up'
> >at any time.
>
> Indeed.
> As I remember it the "road" was only climbable because the LR had
> specialist tractor type tyres, even then it could only get up sections
> of it with a lot of slipping and then winched the second one up. They
> were obviously doing it as a challenge. I suppose a quad bike could
> requirement to not damage the surface, but I can see it would make
> sense.
I don't think that tractor tyres are street legal on a Landrover - and, so
far as I know, they are not used. If you see ruts on a public right of way
that have obviously been caused by tractor tyres - then you can be pretty
sure that the vehicle was a tractor too.
They may have been standard mud terrain tyres - e.g. like these?
http://www.4x44u.com/pub/k2/am4x44u/truck_stop/parts/bfg2.htm
FYI, the drivers code of conduct for the Green Lane Association can be seen
at:
http://www.glass-uk.org/frame/main/membership/codeofconduct/html.htm
In particular, it contains:
"Do not travel on URoW when they risk being affected beyond a point of
natural recovery once the weather improves. If need be, walk some or all of
the route first to determine its suitability. Do not use URoW that maybe
damaged by the wheel pressure applied by your vehicle. "
and also:
"Do not practice recovery techniques on any URoW. Use a winch only with
extreme caution, and use only the correct equipment and techniques."
If, in your judgement, the vehicles were not complying the the GLASS driver
CoC, then I believe that GLASS would condemn their actions - just as you
would.
Cheers
Andrew
Roger Chapman
from "Yr Holli \(anag.\)" <Roy_J...@yahoo.co.uk> contains these words:
Yes and no. Yes, it is a cock-up. No it is not just a question of ink.
I have just had a look at both a 1:50,000 and an old 1" (1960 copy of
the 1" Tourist Map of the LD). The former has the narrow yellow road as
a "road generally less than 4m wide" and the white road as "other road,
..........." which is nonsensical unless the other road has some other
distinguishing feature. But that feature cannot be lack of public ROW
because most of the white roads are certainly public roads so what is
it?
The 1" has the answer
- Wide yellow road "14 ft of metalling & over (not included in the
above)". The 'above' being classified roads A(T), A and B).
- narrow yellow road "under 14' of metalling. Tarred (not included in
the above)".
- white road - "under 14' of metalling. Untarred (not included in the above)".
Perhaps the OS has decided not to keep a check on which untarred roads
have subsequently been tarred so took the easy (inaccurate) way out by
just dropping that information from the description. FWIW the
difference between 4m and 14 feet is about 10.5 inches but, lb to a
pinch of salt, no existing wide yellow road will have been demoted to
narrow yellow. :-)
--
Roger Displaced and Looking North to the Water Tower, South
to the Tower on The Naze and East to the Roughs Tower.
Graham Seed
"The Reids" <cleve...@fellwalk.co.uk> wrote
> Following up to "Boo"
>
> >> Unlike footpaths OS have, perhaps understanderbly, fought shy of
> >> saying which roads and tracks are public and which not.
> >
> >Well if the OS aren't in a position to do that then WOE is, may I ask ?
>
> DOE?
The County Councils (District Councils?) should have maps of all roads that
come under their jurisdiction. I suppose this covers the *yellow roads* but
obviously goes further than this to cover certain white roads. The confusion
is probably just an extension of the confusion we have with RoWs - still
being sorted after all these years.
I discussed the existence of these *county road* map with a friend who was
of the opinion that far more ancient roads were available to be walked on
than Joe Public knew about. Indeed, whilst doing a bit of trespassing in the
North York Moors, we came across an old Packhorse road which he swore blind
would still be available for public use now. I never followed it up, but it
would be an interesting project, delving into the council archives and
finding how many more *roads* are out there which have public access.
Graham
The Reids
>They may have been standard mud terrain tyres - e.g. like these?
>http://www.4x44u.com/pub/k2/am4x44u/truck_stop/parts/bfg2.htm
No, much more like tractor tyres, a smooth tyre with BIG upstanding
ridges, I had never seen such a tyre on a "car" - he may have fitted
them on the spot, I cant remember if he had a change of wheels.
>FYI, the drivers code of conduct for the Green Lane Association can be seen
>at:
>http://www.glass-uk.org/frame/main/membership/codeofconduct/html.htm
>
>In particular, it contains:
>
>"Do not travel on URoW when they risk being affected beyond a point of
>natural recovery once the weather improves. If need be, walk some or all of
>the route first to determine its suitability. Do not use URoW that maybe
>damaged by the wheel pressure applied by your vehicle. "
>
>and also:
>
>"Do not practice recovery techniques on any URoW. Use a winch only with
>extreme caution, and use only the correct equipment and techniques."
>
>If, in your judgement, the vehicles were not complying the the GLASS driver
>CoC, then I believe that GLASS would condemn their actions - just as you
>would.
He cleary was a bit of a renegade as far as your rulebook goes.
The Reids
>Do you mean vehicles that are not street legal, i.e. not road worthy,
>licenced or insured - or do you mean vehicles that you think do not have a
>legal right to be there?
sorry, the latter as you assumed.
Graham Seed
"Yogi Bear" <yogi...@jellystone.park> wrote
>
> I think the difference is that a yellow road is a C-class road, whereas a
> white road is unclassified. The public road network consists of motorways
> (blue on Landranger maps), major roads (A-class roads, red), medium roads
> (B-class roads, brown), and minor roads (C-class roads, yellow). The
local
> highway authority is obliged to maintain the C, B and most of the A-class
> roads in its area. Really major A-roads ('Trunk roads') and motorways are
> maintained by the central government. White roads in rural areas haven't
> been adopted by the highway authority and are not maintained by it.
>
<rest snipped>
This is interesting, because it's how I see it, and how Harley sees it in
his OS manual. However, there have been some compelling arguements against
this line of thought in the thread. Take the Porlock Hill bypass for example
in the West Country - a yellow road, but surely private too as it's a toll
road. Or are these roads maintained by the authority even though they pass
through tolls? The A57 trunk road crossing the Trent would be an example of
a public road crossing a private toll bridge.
Graham
Yr Holli (anag.)
Not really (maybe a single malt drinking contest?), but I (carefully)
re-read the signs on the road today for this thread. It is clearly
marked on a large notice as a 'private' road. Another OS foul-up ;>)
Graham Seed
"Yr Holli (anag.)" <Roy_J...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote
> Not really (maybe a single malt drinking contest?), but I (carefully)
> re-read the signs on the road today for this thread. It is clearly
> marked on a large notice as a 'private' road. Another OS foul-up ;>)
>
Ok, you win. Glenfarclas at ten paces!!
Graham
Martin Richardson
<simon.c...@bigfoot.com> writes
>On Mon, 29 Apr 2002 22:41:44 +0200, Pierre Lavaurs
><lavaurs...@free.fr> wrote:
>
>>
>>For a Frenchman, used to the general grumbling about "too many
>>regulations" in his own country, the real level of regulation in the
>>supposed home country of liberalism and laisser faire is often
>>astounding !
>
>If the UK is the home of laisser faire, how come we couldn't even come
>up with our own word for it?
>
--
Martin Richardson
Andrew Kay
<big snip>
> Take the Porlock Hill bypass for example
> in the West Country - a yellow road, but surely private too as it's a toll
> road. Or are these roads maintained by the authority even though they pass
> through tolls? The A57 trunk road crossing the Trent would be an example
of
> a public road crossing a private toll bridge.
The 'List of Streets' is a list of all the roads that a Highway Authority
has a responsibility to maintain. The public are entitled to inspect it, so
you could just ask them.
In the cases you cite, they will both be public roads. The tolls might have
something to do with the way that the construction of the Porlock Hill
bypass or the A57 bridge were funded.
Cheers
Andrew
Andy Woodward
>>http://www.4x44u.com/pub/k2/am4x44u/truck_stop/parts/bfg2.htm
>
>No, much more like tractor tyres, a smooth tyre with BIG upstanding
>ridges, I had never seen such a tyre on a "car" - he may have fitted
>them on the spot, I cant remember if he had a change of wheels.
Doesnt matter. If they were on a right of way with public access, then
a tyre illegal for teh road is illegal for teh right of way too.
Andy Woodward
>>>up with our own word for it?
>>
>>Couldnt be bothered?
>
>Possibly because the French has a certain je ne sais quoi ;-)
In hte case of the French it's more je ne sais rien.....
Andy Woodward
>>public expense (and is therefore a carriageway) , the Ordnance Survey have
>>series of red dots to depict it on Landranger maps. (green dots on 25000
>>maps)
>
>Yes, but this is on foot access, isnt it?
My understanding was that this guaranteed foot access but was
completrely ambiguious about any other fomrs of access, and so the new
markings were not a lot of help in practice.
Andrew Kay
"Andy Woodward" <a...@aber.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:1020241335.227894@dyfi...
This is what some National Park Authorities would like you to believe. It
keeps local landowners and conservationists on their side if they take that
view.
The logic is straightforward:
1) Highways that have public RoW and are used mainly as footpaths and
bridleways are recorded on Definitive Maps (DM). These are shown on OS
maps using the line styles for Public Rights of Way shown in the key.
2) Highways that are maintained at public expense are recorded on the List
of Streets (LoS).
3) The public have a right to use any highway that is maintained at public
expense.
4) If a highway exists on the LoS but is not recorded on a DM then it is not
mainly used as a footpath or bridleway - but is used mainly by motorised
vehicles. These are unclassified roads and are shown on OS maps as 'white'
(not all 'white' roads on OS maps are UCRs - some may have no public
rights). On recent OS maps, this is overlayed using the red or green dots
(depending on map scale) that indicate 'Other Route with Public Access'
(ORPA).
It is *inconceivable* that the unclassified roads in North Yorkshire (for
example) are not on DMs because they have been 'overlooked'. If you
believe that they only have public rights by foot - what is your explanation
for them not being on the Definitive Maps?
Cheers
Andrew
Andrew Kay
Vehicular RoW are simply public roads without tarmac - no more and no less.
Any vehicle using a public vehicular RoW must be taxed, insured, MOTd (if
necessary) roadworthy and wholly 'street legal'.
If anyone sees a recreational 4x4 that is not 'street legal' on a public RoW
then *please* take the vehicles details and report them to the police, the
highway authority and also to the Green Lane Association (see GLASS website
at - http://www.glass-uk.org).
You will be doing *all* responsible RoW users a service if you do this.
Cheers
Andrew Kay
Phil Cook
Is that the French in the sense of the nation or the language? I was
thinking of the expression in French, in other words the langauge.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"
>
Richard Webb
wrote:
Edinburry Bypass too - probably for the same reason , you would need
to be suicidal to try it
Richard Webb