Underground Tunnels At RAF Welford
Graham Wilson
across articles stating that there are a series of underground tunnels
there, one which connected to Greenham Common. I have also noticed that
this RAF base is also omitted from every map and am wondering why.
Could someone be able to shed some light on this facility, as to whether
there are or aren't any tunnels there, as I have also heard of a strange
underground complex which is linked to the facility, by way of underground
tunnels.
Graham Wilson
Conspiracy Research
Mike Burgess
Wilson <mit...@ntlworld.com> dipped the pen in the ink and wrote...
Well it appears not to be omitted from this map:
http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=europe&X=443000&Y=173000&s
cale=25000&width=700&height=400&gride=&gridn=&coordsys=gb&db=hcgaz&overv
iewmap=ap&scale=25000&up.x=18&up.y=11
It is identified as DEPOT..
Also aerial photo of site available from same page..
--
Mike Burgess : University of Life...
Slough, Berkshire, UK : If it ain't broke
: don't fix it !
Andrew
> across articles stating that there are a series of underground tunnels
> there, one which connected to Greenham Common. I have also noticed that
> this RAF base is also omitted from every map and am wondering why.
Well... it is on the maps:
http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=europemac&X=442500&Y=172500
&scale=50000&width=700&height=400&gride=&gridn=&coordsys=gb&db=&overviewm
ap=&scale=50000&multimap.x=319&multimap.y=76
But why does the depot have a direct link to and from the M4 eastbound?
I've often wondered.
If you want an entertaining "why isn't it on the map" nearby look at
http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=europe&X=451000&Y=164000&gr
ide=0&gridn=0&scale=25000&width=700&height=410
and then click on the "aerial photograph" button.
Graham Wilson
underground entrance on them, could anyone confirm this.
Graham Wilson
Conspiracy Researcher
Martin Trump
>Could someone be able to shed some light on this facility, as to whether
>there are or aren't any tunnels there, as I have also heard of a strange
>underground complex which is linked to the facility, by way of underground
>tunnels.
Apologies if I'm repeating myself.
Some years ago I looked on the local large scale map and found that
there was a byroad<?> right-of-way<?> running alongside RAF Welford.
Being curious I went there and drove along it. Within a matter of a
minute or so there was a large Jeep-type vehicle with red and blue
lights over the cab driving alongside me inside the wire fence. My
passenger became nervous and asked me leave so I turned round. The other
vehicle did the same and drove alongside us until we left the area. We'd
seen many earth mounds with entrances, much as I would expect for (can't
think of the right word) traditional weapons.
I feel inclined to go again on my own :-)
There have been assurances given in the local press that Welford is non-
nuclear.
The distance from Welford to Greenham Common is about 9km. If there were
a tunnel Welford/Greenham Common then guessing 2m diameter that's about
30,000 cubic metres of soil to spirit away somewhere. I think someone
would have noticed.
Regards.
--
Martin Trump
Denis Mcmahon
RAF Welford, if you mean that depot with it's own slip road off of the
M4 to the West of Newbury, is viewable on multipmap.com, complete with
aerial photos.
Rgds
Denis
--
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Dave Edwards
Just because there are reassurances that it isn't, doesn't really mean
much does it!!
I know about 12 months ago I was sent some links that showed that it
appeared on some maps and not on others - but at the moment it seems to
be there!
The links to the M4 must be for speed of access I'd have thought - which
rather indicates that it's something important they're taking in, and
perhaps that would also indicate that there's no tunnels?
"Denis Mcmahon" <den...@pickaxe.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:n4q56u8s5rlc5q36g...@4ax.com...
> "Graham Wilson" <mit...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> >I have been looking into RAF Welford, Berkshire, for some time and have come
> >across articles stating that there are a series of underground tunnels
> >there, one which connected to Greenham Common. I have also noticed that
> >this RAF base is also omitted from every map and am wondering why.
> >Could someone be able to shed some light on this facility, as to whether
> >there are or aren't any tunnels there, as I have also heard of a strange
> >underground complex which is linked to the facility, by way of underground
> >tunnels.
>
> RAF Welford, if you mean that depot with it's own slip road off of the
> M4 to the West of Newbury, is viewable on multipmap.com, complete with
> aerial photos.
>
> Rgds
> Denis
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Andrew P Smith
Dave Edwards <da...@pilot.pprune.com> writes
>
>The links to the M4 must be for speed of access I'd have thought - which
>rather indicates that it's something important they're taking in, and
>perhaps that would also indicate that there's no tunnels?
I believe Welford stores fissile based weapons of some sort. I work 4
miles away and often see heavily armed and escorted convoys making their
way to the base. Traffic is stopped at J14 to allow the trucks to roll
without stopping and go north from that junction. They don't always do a
u turn and go back along the M4.
--
Andrew
Electronic communications can be altered and therefore the integrity of this
communication can not be guaranteed.
Views expressed in this communication are those of the author and not
associations or companies I am involved with.
Martin Trump
Dave Edwards <da...@pilot.pprune.com> writes
>rather indicates that it's something important they're taking in, and
>perhaps that would also indicate that there's no tunnels?
I think the M4 link was made because there was a fire on a lorry heading
there some years ago. Local folks were upset about the transport of
explosives through village streets.
Regards.
--
Martin Trump
Andy Dingley
>Well it appears not to be omitted from this map:
This is interesting (the photo & map overlay - damn, I wish I'd coded
that !)
Not only are areas of the base omitted from the map, but there's a
road on the map that is truncated on the photo. Perhaps much of the
depot wasn't suppressed from the map, it just wasn't built at the
time?
Andrew P Smith
<Mar...@wmeadow.demon.co.uk> writes
James Billing
advance storage depot for conventional munitions for bombers such as
B-52 Stratofortress (used extensively in Afghanistan) and B1-B Lancer
(used extensively in Kosovo).
Considering the large quantity of explosives the B-52 can carry in a
single sortie, I should imagine that the storage depot would be
considerable in size and in blastproofing.
Looking at the map, there seems to be no railway link direct to the
site, which would indicate that all munitions are taken in and out of
the site via road. If large enough vehicles are entering/leaving with
a large enough payload this would warrant building a junction -
especially considering the transport of high explosive through small
villages is just as dangerous, if not more, than the transport of
nuclear weapons (I'm sure I'm lighting the touchpaper for some u.r.s
members here by making this statement :-]).
My take on it is that it is a traditional ammunition store for
traditional weapons.
James
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Julian Speakman
friends still there?
Andy Dingley
> B1-B Lancer (used extensively in Kosovo).
Is this right ? I thought Afghanistan was the first deployment for
the Bone ? (although I can't find a reference for it either way)
--
Smert' Spamionam
Daniele Mandelli
news:a3vdmd$49p$1...@helle.btinternet.com...
> Any opinions on if it's solely a Uk facility, or are any of our American
> friends still there?
I read in RAF news a few years ago that the USAF had withdrawn and
that the base had reverted back to the MoD.
Dan.
Halmyre
<snip>
> If you want an entertaining "why isn't it on the map" nearby look at
>
> http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=europe&X=451000&Y=164000&gr
> ide=0&gridn=0&scale=25000&width=700&height=410
>
> and then click on the "aerial photograph" button.
Why on earth does the map show that peculiar footpath running out across the site?
Halmyre
David D Miller
>
> http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=europe&X=451000&Y=164000&gr
> ide=0&gridn=0&scale=25000&width=700&height=410
>
> and then click on the "aerial photograph" button.
This is one site which has been shown fairly accurately for many years. The
1985 OS map shows all the runways, taxiways, and aprons, and the site is
named as "Greenham Common Airfield". The only part obviously missing from
this map is the cluster of six new bunkers in the SW corner of the airfield.
The RSG site report states that: "The runway has been removed and the last
part of the hardstanding area for aircraft was being dug out whilst we were
there (22nd Jan 2000)."
http://www.subbrit.org.uk/rsg/sites/g/greenham_common/index.html
http://fp.coldwar2.f9.co.uk/raf%20greenham%20common.htm - same report with
additional photos
There's also some useful information and links at
http://www.greenham-common-trust.co.uk/history.htm
http://www.greenham-common-trust.co.uk/restore.htm
I note from the reports that the command bunker and silos only have treaty
protection for a very limited time period. Does anyone know if they've been
listed yet for their continued protection?
David D Miller
Edinburgh, Scotland
David Farrant
On 8-Feb-2002, "David D Miller" <transp...@lddl.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> I note from the reports that the command bunker and silos only have treaty
> protection for a very limited time period. Does anyone know if they've
> been
> listed yet for their continued protection?
>
> David D Miller
> Edinburgh, Scotland
The submission has been made for them to be listed, by English Heritage and
I belive they are expected to be preserved.
--
David Farrant
davidf...@century20war.co.uk
www.century20war.co.uk
Colin Fancourt
form Newbury.. To see a good aerial picture of the site, have a look at
'Airfields of the Ninth, Then and Now' by Roger Freeman. It shows a
brilliant oblique shot, showing the mass of storage igloos.
"Andy Dingley" <din...@codesmiths.com> wrote in message
news:s4j66u8c5jap2jmlm...@4ax.com...
two...@choppers.fsnet.co.uk
who worked there for the RAF. I have alwayse been into the idea that
there are underground tunnels and stuff there. Well there isn't *as
such*.
Welford was and perhaps still is the largest conventional bomb dump in
Europe.
I have been lucky enough to have been shown arround there on a guided
tour. The idea behind this was that I would stop pestering the blokes
who worked there in the local pub about the existance of secret
tunnels there, and links to Greenham Common. I don't think there ever
were any nulear things stored there. Althought it's a a very popular
theory with CND doing surveillance and actions on Welford in the 80's.
I didn't see any evidence of any nuclear things stored there. The
security is too lax for a start. I never have noticed anything like
nuclear transport convoys, ever, and I lived there since the 70's.
Perhaps in pre-cruise times there were, but who knows, it's unlikely
and if there were, it's a very well kept secret. During the Cruise
period the fissile bits were stored in the silos at greenham on the
TELARS, and flown in and out by plane to the USA for servicing. This
is well known.
There is however a disused railway and loading sidings on the base,
and railway marshaling facilities arround Greenham common, and they
are linked. It used to be the Lambourne line, and was closed in the
Beeching rail cutbacks.
When I went there, I saw what weapons they had there, stored by the
RAF. I think in general they are standard MK82's and MK84's. These
things looks like long tubes. in 500lb, 1000lb and 2000lb flavours.
I think these tubes can be fitted with conventional nose and tail
cones or they can can be fitted with a range of guidance and
penatrative nose cones and steering fins, to make them into a
varieties of "Paveway" weapons, and the GPS guided JDAM and JSOW. I
saw crates of these nose and tail fitments stored there too in the
open. I don't think they have much else there. Certainly nothing
underground. I am sure about that, there is no evidence of slope
shafts, or ventilation shafts anywhere. They did have open days every
year, where they would get out some exhibits of what they store.
Recently there was speculation that they have cluster boms there, but
that is not verified. The USAF on the other hand have a load of
hardened stores (perhaps about 20) they call "Igloos", in there they
store other explosive stuff. Things like detonating cord, detonators,
fuses, grenades, claymores, mines, ammo, and small things like that.
The Americans have their own bit and it's quite separate. The whole
base was strictly USAF untill about 89, then the RAF took over the
open-air storage part. Some of the American part it is set in a nest
of deep revetments, and you can see most of it from the perimeter of
the base again. I think they have a few buildings dedicated to shot
blasting and painting bombs, and perhaps disposing of old explosives
in controlled burning areas. I wasn't allowed to see any of "Their"
bit. It is managed as a satellite of Upper Heyford I think, with
staff bussed in and out every morning and night. In the 70's, some of
the more important staff lived in the village. But most lived in the
base. On the base they had a bowling alley and a fully stocked
supermarket selling American goods, a dance hall, and they used
dollars. In the 70's they were alot more of them. I used to go and
do bowling there which was great because nobody did that in the UK
them. They used to drive arround in huge imported American cars, and
give us Tacos and Popcorn and other American stuff for tea when I went
to visit my American school mates.
The weapons I saw were stored on pallets in "revetments", (grassy
high and curvy earth banks) or "bays", to stop acidental explosions
detonating the other explosive things stored in the next bays.
These weapons are continualy subject to a rolling maintenance program,
where the fuses are checked and replaced, and the cases are shot
blasted and painted to stop corrosion. They are also checked for
leakage of explosive residues, and perhaps the explosive burned to
test it. The staff RAF who do this cannot number more that about 30,
including the admin staff. The USAF used to half fill a small
minibus, and when they are busy and back in the good-ole-days, two
coaches. As a side line their water supply comes from a bore-hole
next the road that runs by the front entrance Great shefford to
Boxford, and it was recently fenced it and made more secure, and stop
"terists" pouring nasty stuff into it.
Each bay had about 30 "tubes" in each one. And there about 40 or 50
bays. Overhead there are lightening protection wires running up and
down the bays, and earthed securely, to stop accidental explosions
from lightening strikes. (it is relatively high up there and flat
with few trees). They also have large deep water storage tanks dotted
arround to put out grass fires, and the grass is kept very short all
the time to minimise the fire risk. When I went into the secure area,
I had to leave my lighter and smoking gear in the guard hut, and have
my shoes inspected to make sure I didn't have and metal "blakeys" that
might cause sparks or fire. All the vehicles in the danger area also
have to be fitted with a fire supressor mod, which consists of
specially certified electricals, deisel fuelled only engines and
special exhaust fittings, again to stop sparks.
These bays are built across the old runway, and can be seen from the
base's perimeter, and in aerial photos.
During the Cossovo/Balkans conflict they were celebrating the fact
through working overtime, on 24 hr shifts, they shifted about 9000
tons of bombs in a month, or something like that. I cannot remember
where I read this, it could have been on of their in-house
magazines/newsletters. These bombs are loaded into curtain-sided
(usually blue) ordinary looking white "civilian" lorries hired from a
lorry hire company, and go out onto the M4 without any special guard,
turn arround at Jct 13 (the A34/M4) Junction, then go to a port in
South Wales, which I can't remember the name of for sure, but it could
be Barry.
They used to go through Great Shefford. There is a documents incident
when a bomb lorry caught fire in Great Shefford in the 60's I think,
and that caused a bit of a local uproar. I remember these heavily
loaded lorries thundering arround local for years when I was young..
Originally, it was an old WW2 airfield, used for training the pilots
of the tow planes and Horsa gliders and also used it for launching
gliders from for the D-Day landings, in conjunction with the Huge
Airfields arround Membury. It did have quite big runways in an A
shape. There is a historical groups that has researched it, called
the Membury and Welford Historical Society (I think) and they have a
little museum in one of the sheds there, which is worth a look. You
would have to arrange it with them I cannot find any links to this
group so far. Incidentally the area inside the fence is well stocked
with some fine old trees, and there are managed deer herds to help
keep the grass short, and a good amount of grassland-loving rare birds
and butterflies.
BUT, as far as the underground stuff goes, there is 16th century
building there called "The Priory", where some monks lived and it has
supposed to have housed Cromwell for a bit to. This building is now
almost derelict but still completely intact, and was used to hold
important USAF military commander types in the 70's and 80's, and has
been used as a safe house by the Police for people who needed a safe
house, and Salman Rushti apparently. It has an extensive intruded
alarm system, with panic buttons in every room.
Now here is in my opinion the fuel for the underground tunnels
rumours, there are tunnels, but they are very old, and were dug in
the 16 Century into the chalk by monks during the reformation to
escape death squads, and persecution. They aparently ran from the
Priory into Chaddleworth Village. There is a house in Chaddleworth,
one of the oldest in the village, which which is built over these
tunnels. I have been down there, and I know the people who still live
there. There is a large room with 4 shafts running off into the
chalk, that have now collapsed, and you can only go about 1 of 2
Meters into them. The main chaimber is impressive, and about 10 M's
square. You can see the scrape marks of the pics the monks or whoever
used to dig them.
In the garden of this house was an even older building which was
totally circular, called "The Round House", this was supposedly linked
by the tunnels to the Priory at Welford , and the Church in
Chaddleworth. This "Round House" was supposed to have been the
Village Council building, and general village meeting house, and could
go back to the 14th century. It was pulled down by the old bloke who
lived there in the 50's, he was an ignorant arrogant cheeky old
bugger, but he used to let me play with his shotgun , and give me
biscuits and sweets when I was about 8 :-) He cashed in the bricks
for ale and whiskey! The old lady who lived there just died recently
at the age of 104!
Anyway, this is all amazingly true, but the tunnels running from
Chaddleworth Village to Welford, have never been verified to my
knowledge. It's all "local" knowledge.
So there ya go.
I hope you work for the MIB :-) with your "Conpiracy Research"
On Thu, 7 Feb 2002 16:12:09 -0000, "Graham Wilson"
<mit...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
two...@choppers.fsnet.co.uk
I hope you DON'T work for the MIB!!
Ahh well too bad if you do, "they" got me anyway, ages ago...
Steve Walker
"Martin Trump" <Mar...@wmeadow.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:CCQoyJAb...@wmeadow.demon.co.uk...
> The distance from Welford to Greenham Common is about 9km. If there were
> a tunnel Welford/Greenham Common then guessing 2m diameter that's about
> 30,000 cubic metres of soil to spirit away somewhere. I think someone
> would have noticed.
Yes, but ask yourself - "was Ben Nevis always there?".............
David Farrant
On 9-Feb-2002, two...@choppers.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
> Graham, I lived in a village near Welford, and know a lot of the bods
> who worked there for the RAF. I have alwayse been into the idea that
> there are underground tunnels and stuff there. Well there isn't *as
> such*.
<huge snip!>
Thank you for the comprehensive commentary. Most interesting! I bet it
doesn't stop the questions though!! ;-))
hu...@cix.compulink.co.uk
two...@choppers.fsnet.co.uk () wrote:
> and railway marshaling facilities arround Greenham common
no there aren't - nor were there ever. for one thing
Greenham Common is a LOT higher than the railway so its not
practical - and for the other much of a misspent youth was
spent in the various signal boxes around Newbury and yes -
the Lambourne line did go to Welford (and stayed in service
after the passanger services had been axed) but that was
all: there were extensive yards to the east of Newbury, and
there was the Didcot, Newbury and Southampton junction
Railway which crossed it - but no railways anywhere near the
base.
The belief in all the villages around (pre Cruise) was that
Welford *did* have nuclear storage (which amused us when
everyone was making a fuss about Greenham later on) but I've
never had that verified.
hugh
two...@choppers.fsnet.co.uk
Bank road, and they look like sidings. I guess you must know
however. If they aren't sidings what are these buildings?
Nuclear storage at Welford just didn't happen IMHO, but it is a very
popular roumour.
On Sun, 10 Feb 2002 21:35:42 +0000 (UTC), hu...@cix.compulink.co.uk
wrote:
David Farrant
On 11-Feb-2002, two...@choppers.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
> Nuclear storage at Welford just didn't happen IMHO, but it is a very
> popular roumour.
There was a newspaper article published about 1980 that listed all US bases
in the UK and quoted Welford as having nuclear storage, which is probably
what started the rumours. There are 17 igloos visible in the air pictures of
the place, but on balance I would say that security is not up to nuclear
standards, and igloos are used for other things than nuclear weapons.
Andrew Maskell
Welford storage areas etc. are now clearly marked.
It also shows that the "Works Access" road from the M4 does actually go to this
site as I had previously suspected.
I too have been interested in this site for some time but would suggest that a
tunnel to Greenham Common would be totally impractical.
I assume it was previously ommitted from maps as it was a storage depot for
American nuclear weapons.
pe...@hotmail.co.uk
There no underground works what so ever or ever have been. There was no direct link to Greenham Common above or underground even in the Fifties and Sixties when Greenham was at its most post war active.
Welford is only a Bomb dump the only really interesting thing about the place is that it was the largest of its type in Europe.
I must admit that living very local to the place all of my life, I have heard some very outrages things about it. Also from the air and Google earth there some anomalies that look odd, 1: the deep cutting to the south west corner, this was the old marshalling and parking area for the train system from the Fifties and Sixties used on base only (don't get any ideas) also the igloo bunkers look a little odd.
Hope this helps to put your mind at rest over the place. Kind Regards.
charles
--
From KT24
Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18
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> I have been looking into RAF Welford, Berkshire, for some time and have come
> across articles stating that there are a series of underground tunnels
> there, one which connected to Greenham Common. I have also noticed that
> this RAF base is also omitted from every map and am wondering why.
> Could someone be able to shed some light on this facility, as to whether
> there are or aren't any tunnels there, as I have also heard of a strange
> underground complex which is linked to the facility, by way of underground
> tunnels.
>
> Graham Wilson
> Conspiracy Research
sgt.bi...@gmail.com
sgt.bi...@gmail.com
jeast...@gmail.com
jeast...@gmail.com
jeast...@gmail.com
olyf...@gmail.com
an operation center for the base leading up to glider operation for D Day. It is easier to locate behind H1 hanger, but H1 and H2 came down a long time ago.
As for Nukes, :-)))))))))) The USAF would never trust the motley crew of guys I worked with with nukes. :-) Never mind the security needed.
Here's one for you, does anyone know about the Battle of Welford in the late 70's :-) The base came under attack, shots fired :-)
