Radio 4 - Steam loco's - Strategic Reserve
Daytona
Based on Stephen Burgess's account in "Steam World" April 1981,
ommitting the location he gave - Shrewsbury. [1]
Needless to say, no evidence was found.
There were, however, Emergency Control Trains intended to take over
aspect of the communications infrastructure which got damaged.
Stationed at Craven Arms and Clifton Sidings, York, painted black with
no markings, consisting of approx 5 carriages each. They served from
the 1950s until 1981. One carriage is currently on the Bluebell line.
[2]
There's a thread on uk.railway -
http://groups.google.com/group/uk.railway/browse_thread/thread/232d242b314eb539/adc6efd74efd6303?lnk=raot#adc6efd74efd6303
[1] http://www.angelfire.com/mn2/Oubliette/RefusesToDie.html
[2] http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pics/maunsell3687.html
Stimpy
Why are certain people obsessed with 'sekrit stuff' being painted black
(helicopters, carriages, vans, etc)?
Why would TPTB make a special effort to make their hidden stuff stand out by
removing all the markings and painting it black? Surely leaving it in a
current livery would be a MUCH more sensible thing to do?
Neill
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/puntpi/?focuswin
>
> Based on Stephen Burgess's account in "Steam World" April 1981,
> ommitting the location he gave - Shrewsbury. [1]
>
> Needless to say, no evidence was found.
>
> There were, however, Emergency Control Trains intended to take over
> aspect of the communications infrastructure which got damaged.
> Stationed at Craven Arms and Clifton Sidings, York, painted black with
> no markings, consisting of approx 5 carriages each. They served from
> the 1950s until 1981. One carriage is currently on the Bluebell line.
> [2]
>
>
> [1]http://www.angelfire.com/mn2/Oubliette/RefusesToDie.html
> [2]http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pics/maunsell3687.html
It was Steam Railway, not Steam World. I thought they'd admitted long
ago it was an April Fool's hoax to get people to buy the first edition
of the mag. I've never understood, why, if the Emergency Control
Trains were no big secret, a Strategic Reserve of withdrawn steam
engines would have to be so secret.
Neill
steveb
"Neill" <wormw...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:551e73f3-d5d9-422c...@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
Just out of interest, this is a copy of a post I made in June last year:-
An article in this week's copy of the Chorley Citizen, by local historian
Steve Williams, describes the history of a stretch of railway which ran from
Chorley to Blackburn. Mr Williams states:
"During World War II sidings were built next to the newly built ROF
ammunition storage facilities near Heapey; carved into the hillside, they
were used extensively by the main ROF munitions factory at Euxton.
When the dreaded Doctor Beeching started to axe Britain's Railways back in
the late 1950's and early 60's, Heapey ROF sidings were used to store
redundant steam engines.
The sidings were full of engines of all shapes and sizes, as there was not
enough space at the nearby Horwich Railway works."
Just a thought but could this situation have laid the foundation for the
rumours of the S*******c R*****e at Heapey?
http://www.chorleycitizen.co.uk/news/headlines/display.var.1481466.0.back_tracking_on_old_railway.php
steveb
Charlie
> "Neill" <wormwood...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> steveb
The so called 'Strategic Reserve' is not a secret stash of steam
engines in some out out the way siding, but I suspect the ability to
use all the current working steam engines, on private lines etc &
elsewhere all over the country, should the y be needed. What better
way to maintain a 'Strategic Reserve' than to let someone else
maintain & look after your 'Strategic Reserve', saves loads of money &
happily is distributed all over the country.
Charlie
Andrew Clark
"Charlie" <anon.ne...@gmail.com> wrote
The so called 'Strategic Reserve' is not a secret stash of steam
engines in some out out the way siding, but I suspect the ability to
use all the current working steam engines, on private lines etc &
elsewhere all over the country, should the y be needed. What better
way to maintain a 'Strategic Reserve' than to let someone else
maintain & look after your 'Strategic Reserve', saves loads of money &
happily is distributed all over the country.
Oh, I hate to bite, but...
What statistically-probable national emergency is going to (a) prevent the
use of diesel-electric trains but (b) still allow the use of coal-fired
steam locomotives?
And what about all that electrically-operated signalling and communications
infrastructure?
Les.
"Andrew Clark" <acl...@nospamstarcott.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message >
>
> What statistically-probable national emergency is going to (a) prevent the
> use of diesel-electric trains but (b) still allow the use of coal-fired
> steam locomotives?
Er, the ridiculous cost of fuel oil? We still have lots of that nice black
gold left - if anyone can be bothered to dig it up. Oh sorry, I forgot, it
would completely alter the earth's climate....
Les.
Andrew C
"Les." <l...@nospam.com> wrote
> Er, the ridiculous cost of fuel oil? We still have lots of that nice black
> gold left - if anyone can be bothered to dig it up. Oh sorry, I forgot, it
> would completely alter the earth's climate....
But if an emergency scenario permits the bulk extraction and movement of
coal is possible, why in that scenario is the bulk extraction and movement
of oil impossible?
Is the strategic reserve of steam engines really there in case Britain can't
afford to import oil? But surely if UK plc can't afford oil, it won't need
trains...
I'm just looking for logic...
Owain
> Is the strategic reserve of steam engines really there in case Britain can't
> afford to import oil? But surely if UK plc can't afford oil, it won't need
> trains...
If UKplc can't afford oil it will need some way of moving the troops
around to quell the riots.
I wonder if there is also a strategic reserve of canal barges?
Owain
Brian Watson
"Owain" <owain...@stirlingcity.coo.uk> wrote in message
news:heOdnbG72roSi_HV...@posted.plusnet...
I'm really looking forward to the sight of a squaddie hastily - and
frequently - disembarking in full kit to crank a lock handle so that a barge
full of Britain's Finest can get to a fuel riot somewhere in The Potteries.
Roll on the revolution ('cos there ain't no fuel to drive there!)
--
Brian
"Fight like the Devil, die like a gentleman."
steveb
"Andrew C" <acl...@nononostarcottspamspamspam.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
message news:o7ydnb1oqrkD0_bV...@giganews.com...
transport once we'd been nuked and EMP had fried the electronics in diesels
etc?
steveb
Jules
> I wonder if there is also a strategic reserve of canal barges?
A network of mangonels, perhaps? (possibly coupled with trampolines to
soften the landings :)
John
"steveb" <ste...@posthamster.co.uk> wrote in message
news:I21bk.19959$E41....@text.news.virginmedia.com...
Is this a roll out of the first of the reserve (conspired to look new?) Or
was the reserve the drawings and intellectual property?
Lee Jones
mentioned a few times, the control trains were real. the strategic steam
reserve was simply the locos dumped a Barry some of which could quickly be
resurected by main railway works and other engineering concerns, (which
could be done in days or weeks, rather than the years taken by enthusiasts)
the preserved locos elsewhere were also regarded as a potential source in
times of emergency.
The BR diesel fleet was also part of that "reserve" in that suitable fuel
oil could be made from coal.
Also worth remembering is that in emergency it would have been easy to
manufacture new WD type locos either of Riddles or USA design and this again
could be done quickly
Another point to remember is that in a state of national emergency modern
Health & Safety issues would be have been thrown aside and it would be very
easy to build such simply machines quickly and this would have probably have
been at least as quick and easy than maintaining a working reserve of
locomotives.
Russell W. Barnes
Please replace appropriate text with punctuation to reply!
"Lee Jones" <bert...@crewe1.co.uk> wrote in message
news:956610700b6a4d54...@newspe.com...
> In the thirty years I worked on BR from the the mid 1970s, this issue was
> mentioned a few times, the control trains were real. the strategic steam
> reserve was simply the locos dumped a Barry some of which could quickly be
> resurected by main railway works and other engineering concerns...
What about training locomotive drivers and firemen? Was (is?) there some
sort of 'strategic reserve' of trained enginemen who could, perhaps, come
out of retirement as and when necessary? Are the spotty neckerchief and
shiny hat brigade who are currently trained up to run our heritage railways
considered suitable for this task, if needs arise, or would we require
'top-link' engine-men?
To partially answer my own question, I would say a guarded 'yes', given the
resurgence of steam in the UK (hopefully not a 'one-off') in the form of the
'Tornado' - someone has to drive it...
I would be interested to learn if there were such a pool of retired locomen
who, rather like Naval, Army and RAF Reservists, would have been called upon
to operate the steam motive power required of them. Talking of the
'Tornado', I was impressed by its role in the rescue of passengers in the
recent snowfalls down south; the clamour of the Telegraph-reading public
calling for a reintroduction of steam motive-power can't have gone
un-noticed by the 'strategic reserve' protagonists!
IanT
"Russell W. Barnes" <russell dot barnes at huttonrow dot co dot uk> wrote in
message news:n6ednfNkyKycT6TW...@brightview.com...
not today.
It's a thing of the past, no stocks are now kept.
There are certainly no underground tunnels in which trains are kept!
Russell W. Barnes
"IanT" <noe...@email.co.uk> wrote in message
news:hhd483$ft3$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> There is little point. This would have been used 30 years ago, but sadly
> not today.
> It's a thing of the past, no stocks are now kept.
> There are certainly no underground tunnels in which trains are kept!
>
I wasn't really talking about today, although the resurgence of steam in the
form of the Tornado suggests that some top-link locomen are still extant. I
never said anything about tunnels full of locos, either; never considered it
an option.
But there are stocks. They are the preserved and maintained locomotives
used the country over on heritage railways, and there is still refurbishing
work in place at the NRM, York. Cashmore's yard had a lot to answer for
(and we must remember it was 'of its time'), but they didn't get them all!
Whether a situation arises where any of them are called upon to do useful
work, foul weather and consequential failure of modern stock
notwithstanding, is another matter.
--
Regds,
Russell W. B.
http://www.huttonrow.co.uk
http://www.flickr.com/photos/russell_w_b
Mike Ross
>In the thirty years I worked on BR from the the mid 1970s, this issue was
>mentioned a few times, the control trains were real. the strategic steam
>reserve was simply the locos dumped a Barry some of which could quickly be
>resurected by main railway works and other engineering concerns...
<snip>
I had a couple of good wanders around Barry in the late 70s and there didn't
seem to be anything there that would have been capable of running without some
very serious work.
Mike
--
http://www.corestore.org
'As I walk along these shores
I am the history within'
NOSPAM
from "Russell W. Barnes" <russell dot barnes at huttonrow dot co dot uk>
contains these words:
Perhaps all the sail training ships are actually a strategic reserve for
the merchant fleet. And a lot is being spent on restoring the Cutty
Sark after the fire.
Of course there also is the flagship of CINCNAVHOME, has anyone done a
FOIA request to see if there are contingency plans to get it seaworthy
again?
Russell W. Barnes
"NOSPAM" <nos...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:3130303030373...@invalid.invalid...
> Perhaps all the sail training ships are actually a strategic reserve for
> the merchant fleet. And a lot is being spent on restoring the Cutty
> Sark after the fire.
>
> Of course there also is the flagship of CINCNAVHOME, has anyone done a
> FOIA request to see if there are contingency plans to get it seaworthy
> again?
Who was it who said that if the Third-World-War was fought with nuclear
weapons, the Fourth-World-War would be fought with bows and arrows?
Coracles and animal hide, I say.
--
Regds,
Please replace appropriate text with punctuation to reply!
jeff
>
>
> Perhaps all the sail training ships are actually a strategic reserve for
> the merchant fleet. And a lot is being spent on restoring the Cutty
> Sark after the fire.
>
> Of course there also is the flagship of CINCNAVHOME, has anyone done a
> FOIA request to see if there are contingency plans to get it seaworthy
> again?
Unfortunalely he currently flies his flag from a stone frigate, HMS
Excelent, and I don't think Whale Is is going to sea!!
Regards
Jef