Pneumatic tubes
Steve King
what looked like a modern pneumatic despatch tube. Seeing no overhead
tubes it was with only passing interest that I asked the checkout girl
if they had a pneumatic tube system. 'Yes', she said, 'we do'. 'It's
underground' she explained. She showed me a discrete grey box under
the counter by the till into which she could put the containers,
presumably when the till drawer contains more than a certain quantity
of cash. And away it goes, I suppose, to another part of the store.
I was very surprised to learn of such a system in a modern
supermarket. The girl did not know who made the system but I would
expect it to be D D Lamson?
I remember that Marks & Spencer had an overhead system installed in
their Camden, London, branch back in the early 90s, but it was removed
soon after.
Steve
Nick McCamley
will see they have Lamson Tubes too.
"Steve King" <steph...@easynet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3d58bc3...@news.easynet.co.uk...
Nick Pedley
"Nick McCamley" <mcca...@globalnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ajbeuu$b3c$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
> If you look at the tops of the pay booths on the Severn Bridge, I think
you
> will see they have Lamson Tubes too.
>
way soon?
Besides, my local Tesco's was built about 15 years ago and had pneumatic
cash safe deposit tubes way back then too.
Nick
Andrew P Smith
<steph...@easynet.co.uk> writes
It's a Lamson tube system. All the big Tesco stores have them. If you
have a recently opened Wilkinson store near you go check that out - they
have them at the till points as well.
A certain building in Worthing has a Lamson system that takes boxes on
wheeled tracks and can send them to different places from most points.
I'm told it's a Lamson but can't be sure that it is. And no it's not
possible to visit the building concerned either.
--
Andrew
Electronic communications can be altered and therefore the integrity of this
communication can not be guaranteed.
Views expressed in this communication are those of the author and not
associations or companies I am involved with.
Jon Hind
The expert called them "woosher tubes".
Lamson were the arch rivals then.
Paul
news:ajbeuu$b3c$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
We are architects for Wilkinsons Hardware Stores and all their shops have DD
Lamson air tube systems installed.
--
Paul Charlton
>
Dom J
Walls Ice Cream Factory in Gloucester has them to send samples to the
lab.
Dom J
Adam Aglionby
> I was very surprised to learn of such a system in a modern
> supermarket. The girl did not know who made the system but I would
> expect it to be D D Lamson?
Used in our local B&Q and Sainsburys for cash handling as well:
Adam
mungo
installed in 1944. The system has actually been recently expanded as
part of the FO renovations.
I would imagine other government departments have similar systems.
I'm not sure of the manufacturer, but I could scan an image of the Tube
Room if anyone is interested.
-Tim
GBurns8282
as the "Dido rabbit", that was used to transfer irradiated samples from the
DIDO experimental reactor to various buildings such as radiochemistry and
metalergy about half a mile away on the main site via a system of underground
pipes about 2" diameter. The "rabbits" were plastic (bakalite?) cylinders with
tapered ends about 5" long that unscrewed in the middle to take the sample.Not
as the story goes the fury long eared sort that one visitor thought people were
firing into the reactor to be irradiated !. I got the impression that the
system had been out of use or little used for quite a few years before I
started there,
Dave Liquorice
> I was very surprised to learn of such a system in a modern
> supermarket.
They seem to fairly common in places that have lots of checkout and
handle quanties of cash. Apart from Tesco, CostCo has a tube system.
--
Cheers new...@howhill.com
Dave. Remove "spam" for valid email.
groundzero
critical mass in less than a second, could prove rather interesting for the
boffins at Harwell to explain that one to the mandarins at Whitehall!
I knew of a brilliant fiddle that the facilities management technicians
staff at Harwell used to practice, in the days of unionisation. for six
months a year pipefitters became plumbers, & when the next pay rounds for
pipefitters came along, they would change trades & become plumbers & vice
versa six months later. That way no one in the unions could be out of funds
or feel cheated in the pay bargaining process!
Jim.
"GBurns8282" <gburn...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020813171823...@mb-ct.aol.com...
groundzero
samples of blood for counts & tests, which were collected in a glass tube as
per regs, but someone failed to wrap in a plastic sleeve to cushion the
glass from shock en route in the tubes, some 30 mins later the nurse comes
along & tells the doc that they got the form & made out his name & my
initials, but the blood had stained through the paper sheet to make the rest
unreadable. He was not a happy man & apologiesed to me insisting that a
porter be sent to collect a new plastic tube set for this next sample, than
relying upon the old fashione glass ones. Not long after that, I believe the
hospital admin was changed & new updated equipment (including nice shock
absorbing plastic Hanson containers were used).
Jim.
"mungo" <mu...@heh.org.uk> wrote in message
news:3D59E83...@heh.org.uk...
Jimbo
The Royal Navy warships have them for message passing to parts
of ship
I always wondered how when some got stuck the techies retrieved
the shuttle. They never entered our end of the tube
Maybe they use extra high pressure compressed air or something
Anyone know how retrieval is actually acomplished?
Jimbo
John Griffiths
My local Tesco (only 3 yrs old) has them (underground).
Makro also have this system (overhead).
John
--
Remove KEY to reply
Roy Smith
"Dom J" <Domi...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:ajbldg$8t2$1...@knossos.btinternet.com...
Back in the dreary late 40's and early 50's my dear old mum would take me to
The North London Drapery Store, near the Nags Head, Holloway Road.
God, how dreary it was being dragged around that boring shop that sold
nothing but carpets, curtains, fabrics and grey flannel short trousers -
part of my school uniform.
There was nothing to engage the mind of a little lad who would rather be at
home sorting his ever growing collection of shrapnel, tenderly looking at
his treasured German Incendiary Bombs, all live. Or firing his air rifle at
the washing on the line next door.
The only saving grace of The North London Drapery Store was ...... Lamson
Tubes! How exciting when mum or another customer bought something. The
salesgirl would write out a chitty and put that and the money into the
container. Then open a flap-valve and shove the container up. I used to
stand gazing, waiting with baited breath for the brass tube with grey
leather end seals to "flud-dump" into the basket with the chitty stamped and
our change.
Plenty of Lamson tubes to be seen at the Cabinet War rooms.
Berlin had an extensive city-wide system too, operated by the Post Office.
Regards,
Roy
__________________________________________________________
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For MI5 and MI6 Architecture in London, Bunkers, Citadels, Shelters, Sirens,
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for Berlin Flaktowers, Air Raid Shelters, Berghof pictures.
hu...@cix.compulink.co.uk
custom...@btclick.com (John Griffiths) wrote:
> > I was very surprised to learn of such a system in a
modern
> > supermarket. The girl did not know who made the system
but I would
> > expect it to be D D Lamson?
> >
When you come right down to it, what other system is as
efficient at moving small physical objects around! The
technology may not be ultra modern - but neither is the
wheel - and we continue to use that!
hugh
hugh
Wayne Davies
<custom...@btclick.com> made me spill my meths by writing:
>My local Tesco (only 3 yrs old) has them (underground).
>Makro also have this system (overhead).
I called into Specsavers in Harrogate today and there were some at the
reception desk. Probably wouldn't have noticed them if this thread
hadn't kicked off, then again, I do need new glasses :)
All the best
--
Wayne Davies - Mobile 07932 081776 - Harrogate, N.Yorks, UK
Russell W. Barnes
>
> When you come right down to it, what other system is as
> efficient at moving small physical objects around! The
> technology may not be ultra modern - but neither is the
> wheel - and we continue to use that!
>
> hugh
>
> hugh
How large do Lamson Tubes go? We used to use a version about 4" IIRC
to send
foundry samples to the metallurgy labs.
What sort of "suck" is required? Would it be feasible to shift larger
objects? (Obviously pipe-radii would need to be greater, etc....)
Was the technology once used in the 19th Century to power some sort of
minature railway?
--
Regds,
Russell W. B.
http://www.huttonrow.co.uk
Nick Pedley
"Russell W. Barnes" <rwba...@globalnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:f3860a72.02081...@posting.google.com...SNIP
> What sort of "suck" is required? Would it be feasible to shift larger
> objects? (Obviously pipe-radii would need to be greater, etc....)
>
> Was the technology once used in the 19th Century to power some sort of
> minature railway?
> --
http://membres.lycos.fr/fdelaitre/Crystal.htm
Beach Pneumatic Railway, NYC? (Disused tunnel seen in Ghostbusters 2!)
http://membres.lycos.fr/fdelaitre/Beach.htm
Down in South Devon, between Exeter and Teignmouth and Newton Abbott, some
people experimented with an atmospheric-pneumatic railway which had open air
carriages with a 'scoop' inside a central tube (an o-shape with a gap along
the top sealed with leather strips on the inside) laid between the tracks
with air blowing along. This air pushed the train but suffered losses of
pressure because the leather sealer would work loose and not close properly.
IIRC they tried waxing and oiling the sealer but to no avail. The line
lasted for about a year (1847-1848) before they gave up and converted to a
normal steam operated line. You can still see some of the pump buildings
along the tracks, IIRC.
I got the above from BBC series Local Heroes some time ago and the presenter
(Adam Hart-Davies) used a tube with a vacuum cleaner as a pump and post-its
for the tube pressure sealer. Worked quite well too!
Nick P
timski
:: rwba...@globalnet.co.uk (Russell W. Barnes) wrote:
>How large do Lamson Tubes go? We used to use a version about 4" IIRC
>to send
>foundry samples to the metallurgy labs.
The information I have (which may be out of date) indicates 55-160mm
tube diameter.
>What sort of "suck" is required?
Eeek. This is a deceptively simple question. The physics of pneumatic
tube systems start simple, but rapidly become more complex as one
introduces additional variables like capsule mass, bends, gradients,
tube length, etc. If you are interested in the technical details, I
can probably dig something out - but a basic primer runs to a dozen
pages of mathematics, most of which I don't personally understand.
> Would it be feasible to shift larger
>objects? (Obviously pipe-radii would need to be greater, etc....)
It is feasible to shift larger objects. Systems with tube diameters of
1-1.2m have been built. Technology is similar, albeit with injector
pumps (at intervals along a long distance tube) and wheeled
containers. There are alternative approaches involving the use of
water (hydraulic) and electro-magnetic/linear induction, rather than
air, to propel the capsule along.
>Was the technology once used in the 19th Century to power some sort of
>minature railway?
Kind of. Although intended as conventional passenger or freight
systems, not as tourist attractions.
M.J.Powell
Barnes <rwba...@globalnet.co.uk> writes
Brunel's Atmospheric Railway, Used in Devon and Dublin.
Mike
--
M.J.Powell
C.O.Jones
<nichola...@npedley.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>Down in South Devon, between Exeter and Teignmouth and Newton Abbott, some
>people experimented with an atmospheric-pneumatic railway which had open air
>carriages with a 'scoop' inside a central tube (an o-shape with a gap along
>the top sealed with leather strips on the inside) laid between the tracks
>with air blowing along. This air pushed the train but suffered losses of
>pressure because the leather sealer would work loose and not close properly.
>IIRC they tried waxing and oiling the sealer but to no avail.
One popular story (myth?) is that the key problem was that rats kept
on eating the tallow soaked leather seals.
Anyway there is a good description of the history and mention of
"despatch tube systems" in an article on Clive Feather's website at
http://www.davros.org/rail/atmospheric.html
Ernest
Russell W. Barnes
"timski" <s...@my.sig> wrote in message
news:3d5be38b...@news.btinternet.com...
> :: On 15 Aug 2002 08:32:11 -0700
> :: rwba...@globalnet.co.uk (Russell W. Barnes) wrote:
>
> >What sort of "suck" is required?
>
> Eeek. This is a deceptively simple question. The physics of pneumatic
> tube systems start simple, but rapidly become more complex as one
> introduces additional variables like capsule mass, bends, gradients,
> tube length, etc. If you are interested in the technical details, I
> can probably dig something out - but a basic primer runs to a dozen
> pages of mathematics, most of which I don't personally understand.
>
Thanks, chaps.
I was thinking simply in terms of degree of vacuum compared with, say, a
typical retail-outlet system (or even a "Hoover"); nothing excruciatingly
mathematical. I have the offer of some technical details forthcoming.
As a young boy, I remember sneaking into the office of Browne's department
store in Workington in the 1960's where the vacuum pump for the Lamson
system was located. It had a wheel - presumably a flywheel - about 1 metre
in diameter, and used to sit on one end of the office desk!
Incidentally, are they all suck systems, or do they use blow as well (Like
BT use to blow fibre optics up their pipes) or even a combination?
--
Regds,
Russell W. B.
http://www.huttonrow.co.uk
Please take out dog before replying by Email!
Stuart Jamieson
>
> Incidentally, are they all suck systems, or do they use blow as well (Like
> BT use to blow fibre optics up their pipes) or even a combination?
AFAIK BT don't actually blow the fibre up the pipes, they blow air
into the pipe to reduce the drag against the tube wall so it acts more
like a hovercraft being easier and safer to push without actually
doing any pushing itself.
the logistics of trying to blow a cable all the way up a pipe would be
ridiculously extreme, as the further you go the more pressure you have
to find, and the you have no real way of getting a high pressure
behind the fibre to push it from. to simply use the air to reduce drag
is easier because the further up the tube the fibre goes the less
volume there is to fill and so the pressure equalises itself to
support the fibre all the way along its length.
One of my friends was involved in the initial development of Blowlight
and Blowtwist for brand-rex and this infomation came from him.
regards,
Stuart Jamieson
Brian D
On 16 Aug,
stuart....@active-outdoors.co.uk (Stuart Jamieson) wrote:
The last time I saw, they tied a carrier bag to their rope and blew it
through the pipe with their compressor. Then they used the rope to pull the
fibre.
--
Brian D
timski
:: "Russell W. Barnes" <rwba...@dogglobalnet.co.uk> wrote:
>Incidentally, are they all suck systems, or do they use blow as well
Some more complex systems do both. A simple system using one tube with
capsules travelling in both directions might suck one way, and blow
the other.
Also, more than just one manufacturer out there for smaller diameter
systems: http://dmoz.org/Business/Industries/Industrial_Supply/
Materials_Handling/Automated/Pneumatic_Tubes/ .
Brian Hillman
"C.O.Jones" <c.o....@blueNOSPAMyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:hm3olu0vftp964buj...@4ax.com...
Russell W. Barnes
"Stuart Jamieson" <stuart....@active-outdoors.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3e6cd4e7.02081...@posting.google.com...
The stuff I've seen BT do is blow (or air-drag reduce!) the fibres up a
section of white flat-section tube, much the same cross-section and profile
as 6mm Twin and Earth cable.
They told me they "blew" the fibres up, but I accepted this explanation and
didn't have time to investigate their machinery. I believe German
electrical contractors in the 1970's used to blow wiring up conduit by
fitting a seal to the head-end of the wire, and applying compressed air to
the other end. I took it that BT used a similar system.
timski
:: "Brian Hillman" <b...@lineone.net> wrote:
>What about the Croydon atmospheric railway which I understood was the first?
Vallance is thought to have built the first working prototype (albeit
to the original Medhurst design which placed the carriage in the tube)
in Brighton in 1826. He intended to build a Brighton-Shoreham/London
route, but could not get funding.
Kingstown & Dalkey first operated in 1843, and opened to the public in
1844. London-Croydon was mostly built earlier, but not converted to
atmospheric power until 1845/6.
By far the best source on atmospehric railways is the book of the same
title by Charles Hadfield, published in 1967.
Andy Wells
Stuart, sorry top be disagreeable (is there such a word?) but civils
engineers DO blow items through pipes. The high technology tool used to do
it is . . . . . a plastic carrier bag !
I'm a Security Engineer, one of my jobs is CCTV. We regularly 'blow'
fibres, but the way it's done is to insert the carrier bag with a piece of
light nylon string attached, then blow it up the pipe with the compressed
air, from a compressor. We regularly blow 100m lengths. Of course, the
light rope is then used to pull heavier, etc etc etc. I have heard of 500m
lengths being done, but the pressure increases dramtically and I would guess
cylinders would be needed.
We normally do 50m distances, the reason being we insert draw pits every 50m
to minimise fault finding etc.
Andy.
Stuart Jamieson
In most cases they probably get away with that, but the standard for
blown fibres supports some ridiculously tight corners AFAIK greater
than 90deg close to 180 which makes a seal difficult to keep and more
so to feed. hence the blow should only really be used to reduce the
drag, and certainly in the manufacturing procees the name "blown
fibre" comes from this ability.
Incidently Brand-rex, Blow-twist has two tubes both same cross section
one for fibre other for twisted pair but i think only the fibre
channel supports being blown and the twisted pair has to be
pre-installed, I have the catalog around here somewhere and was gonna
confirm it but can't seem to find it.
On their website the technical specs for the compressor don't mention
the method of feeding the fibre, (although it could just be by hand)
but at the same time there is no spec for a head to drag the cable
behind. It's possible that the point at which the air enters the
system is angled enough to inch the fibre along as it works it's
stuff.
regards,
Stuart
Stuart Jamieson
We seem to be talking at cross purposes here, I assumed Russell was
talking about BT "Blown" fibre which is a small diameter cabling
solution and this was what I quoted against. In his reply Russell
unintentionally confirmed that this was what he was talking about
originally. Blown fibre is too small to put a carrier bag inside.
yourself and Brian D seem to be thinking about cores of fibres, which
are run down the street etc, these indeed as you correctly say can use
a sail in the form of a carrier bag or similar to pull the core
through the tube. but these are never described as blown fibres as in
this case the method of inserting the fibres is largely irrelevant to
the general public. It's also they case that cores may be inserted by
any number of means depending on the circumstances of the
installation, wheras blown fibre is always blown.
the other argument against this would be that it is rare to see a BT
engineer installing core sections of cable (not that it doesn't
happen) as a lot of the time the work is subcntracted out to the
lowest bidder. But then it's rare to see a BT employee at work anyway,
I'm sure some of the vans just drive round the same circle everyday.
regards,
Stuart Jamieson
Stuart....@Active-outdoors.co.uk
Russell W. Barnes
"Stuart Jamieson" <stuart....@active-outdoors.co.uk> wrote in message
news:540248c7.02081...@posting.google.com...
> We seem to be talking at cross purposes here, I assumed Russell was
> talking about BT "Blown" fibre which is a small diameter cabling
> solution and this was what I quoted against. In his reply Russell
> unintentionally confirmed that this was what he was talking about
> originally.
>
I was indeed....
> the other argument against this would be that it is rare to see a BT
> engineer installing core sections of cable (not that it doesn't
> happen) as a lot of the time the work is subcntracted out to the
> lowest bidder. But then it's rare to see a BT employee at work anyway,
It is rare to see them undertaking cable pulls, thouth there is usually a BT
foreman comes to visit occasionally.
> I'm sure some of the vans just drive round the same circle everyday.
True enough, and the cheapest bidder does it by fair means or foul,
according to the disgruntled BT staff I've talked to, who look upon such
work with disgust, when they know how it *should* be done!
I once was asked to help a BT engineer with a "Duct Test". "Oh, good", I
thought; "That sounds interesting...."
Pah! All I had to do was go from manhole to manhole with a long rope and a
double-ended bog-brush, and pull it from one duct, while the BT bloke at the
other end pulled it back through the other. What a sweat, with all the
water that came out, etc....
All to see that the U/G pipes had not collapsed when BT pulled in their
cabling!
--
Regds,
Russell W. B.
http://www.huttonrow.co.uk
Please take out dog before replying by Email!
> regards,
>
> Stuart Jamieson
> Stuart....@Active-outdoors.co.uk
>
Roy Smith
the Russian defector is shoved into an oil pipeline 'pig' which is then
propelled by compressed air over the border.
Silly, but fun.