"MK's Cold War nuclear bunker a disaster area" says Newspaper
news.dsl.pipex.com
Article taken from "MK News" - a Wednesday local paper for Milton Keynes.
Bletchley Fire Station is mentioned in War Plan UK - so much for the
"revealed for the first time today" tag!!
Read the full article online at
http://www.seriousaboutnews.com/cgi/xtranews/viewnews.cgi?newsid1049842800,6
6853, with photos. Beware that the website has the article repeated twice on
the same page, bizarrely.
Bletchley Fire Station is 8 minutes walk from me, and my neighbour is a
Fireman based there so I may be able to see what remains of it, with some
helpful persuasion:
-----
MK's Cold War nuclear bunker a disaster area
THE secrets surrounding Milton Keynes' nuclear bomb shelter can be revealed
for the first time today.
The 43ft x 45ft underground bunker was sited underneath Bletchley fire
station in Sherwood Drive.
It was the base from which council officers were theoretically supposed to
co-ordinate emergency relief in the event of the unthinkable - a nuclear
bomb falling on Milton Keynes during the Cold War.
But mk news can reveal that the nuclear bunker was anything but ready.
Milton Keynes Council's emergency planning officer Alastair Bartholomew told
us how:
it wasn't designed for people to live there for more than 10 days. Yet
lethal effects from nuclear fallout can last for months, even years.
n water from firemen hosing down fire engine's would seep in from above
through air vents
the line with the outside world - the bunker's own telephone exchange - was
so old it was 'like something out of the 1930s'.
the chairs from which city top brass would make vital decisions were so
uncomfortable, you couldn't sit down on them for longer than 10 minutes.
Mr Bartholomew said: "I wouldn't have liked to have been in it if we were
hit by an ordinary bomb, let alone a nuclear bomb."
But it wasn't all doom and gloom.
No councillors, contrary to public opinion and probably their own, would
have been among the select few to have been invited down there.
Mr Bartholomew added: "Positions filled by police, other key emergency
service workers, the military, council officers, but NOT councillors -
despite what most of the public and the councillors themselves might have
thought.
"The so-called bunker provided a focus for the support to the local
population still living above the ground.
"It would've been an extremely difficult job, trying to co-ordinate feeding
any remaining people who survived and clearing the roads of dead bodies.
"And, with the best will in the world, it was felt that the councillors
might not do that any better in the bunker than they would outside up above.
"We might have stretched a point to the council chief, the Isobel Wilson of
the day, but that's all, if any."
The multi-roomed bunker would have been filled mainly with council officers
rather than members, with the chief executive and the emergency planning
officer to the fore.
Mr Bartholomew said: "The bunker wasn't designed for more than 40 to 50
people, nor was it designed for people to live in for more than 10 days. But
the plan was to take 60 people down there."
"Certainly, after a fortnight we would have run out of all sorts.
"It would have been a pretty manky sort of place, just a storeroom. It was
so tatty.
"All the things down there were rejects from people's homes and offices.
"I wouldn't even want to sit down on the chairs for more than ten minutes.
"And the telephone exchange that the whole project hinged on for vital
communications was like something out fo the 1930s.
"While we were looking around down there, firemen would practice hosing
outside and water would slush in through the air vents. It was very damp."
"Special insulation meant that the shelter was 100 times less susceptible to
radiation than on the outside and should have withstood any building
collapsing on it."
None of Buckinghamshire's original three bunkers exist today - despite the
growing threat of terrorist attacks from al-Qa'eda.
The Milton Keynes shelter was decommissioned ten years ago following the end
of the Cold War.
David Wright
David.
David Wright
comma, whatever next!
D.
"news.dsl.pipex.com" <da...@ukexposed.co.uk.SPAM.REMOVETHIS> wrote in
message news:3e995485$0$11385$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
Panther650
improvements
David Hansen
"news.dsl.pipex.com" <da...@ukexposed.co.uk.SPAM.REMOVETHIS> wrote
this:-
>http://www.seriousaboutnews.com/cgi/xtranews/viewnews.cgi?newsid1049842800,6
>6853, with photos.
>It was the base from which council officers were theoretically supposed to
>co-ordinate emergency relief in the event of the unthinkable - a nuclear
>bomb falling on Milton Keynes during the Cold War.
I wonder why the paper thought it was unthinkable?
>Mr Bartholomew said: "I wouldn't have liked to have been in it if we were
>hit by an ordinary bomb, let alone a nuclear bomb."
I doubt very much if it was designed to withstand a direct hit by any
sort of bomb. Such buildings tended to be sited where they would be
out of the direct effects of nuclear weapons. They simply had to
protect the occupants from contaminated air.
>"The so-called bunker provided a focus for the support to the local
>population still living above the ground.
One could argue that if people had survived above the ground then
there was no need for such a building. If people had not survived
above the ground then there was also no need for such a building. It's
not an argument I entirely agree with, but it does have its merits.
>Mr Bartholomew said: "The bunker wasn't designed for more than 40 to 50
>people, nor was it designed for people to live in for more than 10 days.
10 days in a basement. No thanks.
>"Special insulation meant that the shelter was 100 times less susceptible to
>radiation than on the outside
Special insulation? Fascinating.
Presumably they mean filtration.
--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.
David Wright
> out of the direct effects of nuclear weapons.
It's right next to the main Railway station, about 100 metres from the town
centre and virtually shares a fence with the code-breaking centre at
Bletchley Park - if the bombs were to start falling I'd say it was poorly
placed!!
D.
Ada
>I can see it now..............1MT bomb hits Milton Keynes. Causes £5M of
>improvements
Of course, If it didnt explode and landed in one of the "Premium"
parking bays, it would be covered in parking tickets by the end of the
day !
Roger Hird
news.dsl.pipex.com <da...@ukexposed.co.uk.SPAM.REMOVETHIS> wrote
(quoting a news report) :
> the line with the outside world - the bunker's own telephone exchange -
> was so old it was 'like something out of the 1930s'.
The reporter hadn't thought this one through. An electro-mechanical
system like this would at least have survived the electro-magnetic pulse
from nuclear explosions which would have destroyed any modern system based
on transistor technology.
RogerH
--
Roger Hird
roger...@argonet.co.uk
Running Voyager 2.07 and RISCOS 4.02 on an Acorn StrongARM RiscPC
Andrew Clark
"David Wright" <david....@open.ac.uk> wrote
> It's right next to the main Railway station, about 100
metres from the town
> centre and virtually shares a fence with the code-breaking
centre at
> Bletchley Park - if the bombs were to start falling I'd
say it was poorly
> placed!!
The former code-breaking centre, of course. It was closed in
that use in circa 1947!
If the bunker is next to BP, couldn't the BP Trust take it
on as part of the built historic heritage?
David Hansen
<roger...@argonet.co.uk> wrote this:-
>The reporter hadn't thought this one through. An electro-mechanical
>system like this would at least have survived the electro-magnetic pulse
>from nuclear explosions which would have destroyed any modern system based
>on transistor technology.
Emergency telephone systems were manual, something which is well
documented on the web. Even Strowger style systems are vulnerable to
EMP, though not as much as modern systems.
A manual system might have been exciting during a nuclear explosion,
but it would probably work afterwards, provided that the insulation
had not been damaged too much.
David Hansen
<david....@open.ac.uk> wrote this:-
It was only in the latter years of the Cold War that there were an
utterly ridiculous number of nuclear weapons. This was no doubt caused
by the military/industrial complex carrying on producing the things in
order to maintain jobs. That job creation scheme has now been taken
over by the "war" on (some) drugs (in some circumstances).
Bletchley was once on a main road and an important railway junction,
but this was long before there were scores of nuclear weapons to throw
around. By then it was neither on a main road or an important railway
junction. I suspect that even at the end of the Cold War a nuclear
attack on Milton Keynes was unlikely, no matter how desirable it might
be to get rid of that blot on the landscape.
Code-breaking activities were moved to Cheltenham in the mid-late
'40s. The move must have been planned during the war. I believe two
Colossi, some Bombes and perhaps a Tunny or two were moved, the rest
being reduced to components. The Soviet Union had excellent
information on what was happening in the west.
David Wright
> on as part of the built historic heritage?
Ah, but the bunker is under Bletchley Fire Station which is very much still
in use. Especially given that there are only three Fire Stations covering
the whole of Milton Keynes...
Some 213,000 people and just three fire stations. But then, the town had
been here for 18 years before they opened the first hospital!
D.
David Wright
> attack on Milton Keynes was unlikely, no matter how desirable it might
> be to get rid of that blot on the landscape.
Oddly enough, some of the people who live here have a lot of pride in this
town. A laugh it may be to people who don't live here, but Milton Keynes is
actually something special.
It has a vast business and commercial centre, and is the fastest growing
town in the South East. Home to Volkswagen, Coca-Cola, Dominos Pizza, The
Open University etc. 213,000 occupants. More canalside towpaths than Venice.
Over 20million trees. The largest shopping area in any town centre in the
UK. 1,800 hectares of open space and parkland.
But then, if it's the blot on the landscape as you say, we must all be
fucking idiots for living here eh?
I've had 25 years of people taking the piss out of somewhere I call my
home....
David.
ps. I was in Edinburgh last Monday - loved it. Seriously.
Andrew P Smith
<da...@ukexposed.co.uk.SPAM.REMOVETHIS> writes
> Coca-Cola,
Strange. Have they moved their corporate HQ from Hammersmith then?
--
Andrew
Electronic communications can be altered and therefore the integrity of this
communication can not be guaranteed.
Views expressed in this communication are those of the author and not
associations or companies I am involved with.
David Hansen
<da...@ukexposed.co.uk.SPAM.REMOVETHIS> wrote this:-
>But then, if it's the blot on the landscape as you say, we must all be
>fucking idiots for living here eh?
>I've had 25 years of people taking the piss out of somewhere I call my
>home....
>ps. I was in Edinburgh last Monday - loved it. Seriously.
>
David Hansen
<da...@ukexposed.co.uk.SPAM.REMOVETHIS> wrote this:-
>But then, if it's the blot on the landscape as you say, we must all be
>fucking idiots for living here eh?
That's not something I said, implied and neither do I think it.
>I've had 25 years of people taking the piss out of somewhere I call my
>home....
Unfortunately the only thing to do with the place is to knock it down
and start again.
>ps. I was in Edinburgh last Monday - loved it. Seriously.
Edinburgh is built to a very different density, one which makes
sustainable transport possible. Milton Keynes will never have this
density, unless it is knocked down and rebuilt. House prices are a
guide to desirability and one of the highest densities is the New
Town, which has the highest house prices.
In their "wisdom" town planners would not allow the New Town to be
built today, as it is supposedly too dense. Instead they have given us
blots on the landscape like Milton Keynes.
David Wright
> and start again.
You say this without anything to back it up - surely the people who live
here can't all be wrong - if Milton Keynes works for them, then surely it
works full stop?? Have you ever been here and surveyed it yourself - it's
clean, it's functional, we don't have traffic jams or pollution, we have the
lowest unemployment in the region.. I could go on.
> Edinburgh is built to a very different density, one which makes
> sustainable transport possible. Milton Keynes will never have this
> density, unless it is knocked down and rebuilt. House prices are a
> guide to desirability and one of the highest densities is the New
> Town, which has the highest house prices.
Trying to get my head round what you mean here. Milton Keynes has an amazing
transport system - buses run within 500 metres of every single house in the
town, we are on the main A5 and M1 roads, we have 5 railway stations, and
the grid road system has erradicated traffic jams.
If house prices are a guide to desirability, then Milton Keynes must be one
of the most desirable places in the country. A brand new three-bed semi will
set you back £160,000 in Milton Keynes. An identical house, built by the
same builder, the same age and spec, one hour north in Wellingborough will
cost you £115,000.
Your comments about density amuse me too. Given that we have 1,800 hectares
of open space and 20million trees, I've never heard anyone complain that
things are too close together. I live in a residential housing estate built
in 1988 but I have parkland all around me - and all of Milton Keynes is like
this. Canals, rivers, brooks, linear parks, great swathes of open space -
even the main shopping centre has fields around it!
> In their "wisdom" town planners would not allow the New Town to be
> built today, as it is supposedly too dense. Instead they have given us
> blots on the landscape like Milton Keynes.
If you must insist on calling it a blot with nothing to sustain your
argument, I welcome you to come and visit - I'll show you what this blot has
to offer.
David.
David Wright
Coca-Cola Enterprises Ltd have two large factories in Milton Keynes - at
Tongwell and Northfield.
D.
Andrew
> argument, I welcome you to come and visit - I'll show you what this blot has
> to offer.
Keep up the good work David! I lived there for 12 years and, if I had to
live in a town again, MK is the one I'd choose. Splendid place. Now,
what's under the Borough Council Offices in Saxon Gate?
Andrew P Smith
<david....@open.ac.uk> writes
Ada
>Keep up the good work David! I lived there for 12 years and, if I had to
>live in a town again, MK is the one I'd choose. Splendid place. Now,
>what's under the Borough Council Offices in Saxon Gate?
The previous Labour council hopefully :-)
Ada
Roger Hird
David Hansen <SENDdavi...@spidacom.co.uk> wrote:
> >The reporter hadn't thought this one through. An electro-mechanical
> >system like this would at least have survived the electro-magnetic
> >pulse from nuclear explosions which would have destroyed any modern
> >system based on transistor technology.
> Emergency telephone systems were manual, something which is well
> documented on the web. Even Strowger style systems are vulnerable to
> EMP, though not as much as modern systems.
Indeed - my mistake - I had a manual system in mind as I typed "electro
mechanical".
James Billing
Hammersmith (I walked past it today, I worked for O2 around the corner when
Coca Cola was a target for anti-capitalist demonstrations a couple of years
back). They have a large office in Uxbridge, which handles the
distribution side of the business. Coca Cola have a 'presence' in Milton
Keynes - but then again they have a presence in lots of places.
Surely Volkswagen's headquarters is in Wolfsburg Germany? ;-)
I don't know much about canals, but surely Venice's canal boats weren't
designed to be pulled by horses like British ones? Unless the horses could
climb walls like flies they would problems getting past some of the terraces
that do not have towpaths - so of course Milton Keynes has more towpaths
than Venice! Just like Wales has more mountains than Norfolk.
You did forget to mention Mercedes, Abbey National, Minolta and Mobil who
are also in Milton Keynes. Cable and Wireless have a large corporate office
they inherited from Mercury and EDS has one of its largest data centres just
outside in Wavendon (my father used to work at Wavendon House when it was a
school for maladjusted children, my mother was the residential child care
officer there).
As well as the more on topic achievements Alan Turing and his colleagues at
Station X in Bletchley Park to crack German codes during World War II.
One of the greatest things in Milton Keynes is the Xscape Snow Dome - there
aren't many real snow indoor slopes in the World and it dominates the
landscape. Xscape are building another one in Leeds.
I live in Oxford and when I tire of seeing the same bloody old buildings, I
travel to Milton Keynes to have a look at what would happen if we didn't
stifle progress everywhere. From the layout and architecture, I always get
the feeling of being back in California - but without the good weather or
healthly living.
Regards
James
On 14/4/03 9:46 pm, in article 3e9b1de7$0$4851$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com,
"David Wright" <da...@ukexposed.co.uk.SPAM.REMOVETHIS> wrote:
> Oddly enough, some of the people who live here have a lot of pride in this
> town. A laugh it may be to people who don't live here, but Milton Keynes is
> actually something special.
>
> It has a vast business and commercial centre, and is the fastest growing
> town in the South East. Home to Volkswagen, Coca-Cola, Dominos Pizza, The
> Open University etc. 213,000 occupants. More canalside towpaths than Venice.
> Over 20million trees. The largest shopping area in any town centre in the
> UK. 1,800 hectares of open space and parkland.
>
> But then, if it's the blot on the landscape as you say, we must all be
> fucking idiots for living here eh?
> I've had 25 years of people taking the piss out of somewhere I call my
> home....
>
> David.
>
> ps. I was in Edinburgh last Monday - loved it. Seriously.
>
>
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Panther650
>travel to Milton Keynes to have a look at what would happen if we didn't
>stifle progress everywhere. From the layout and architecture, I always get
>the feeling of being back in California - but without the good weather or
>healthly living
So demolishing Oxford would be progress would it???? Presumably the good old
US of A are just practising on Baghdad prior to doing some urban renewal over
here.
GAWD help us.
America for the Americans cos no-one else will have them
James Billing
"Panther650" <panth...@aol.com> wrote:
> So demolishing Oxford would be progress would it???? Presumably the good old
> US of A are just practising on Baghdad prior to doing some urban renewal over
> here.
> GAWD help us.
Please please please, I was praying that some of the B-52s leaving from
Fairford would accidentally drop some daisycutters on the centre of this
Godforsaken bloody antiquated 'quaint' City and preferably take out some of
the conceited self-centered arrogant students - including that
facially-challenged daughter of Clintons, the lying bastard! See not
everybody loves the place they live.
No, what I am saying is that you can't keep everywhere in a vacuum -
progress has to happen. I would much prefer it happens in a planned fashion
than in a piecemeal fashion (as in Bournemouth - my home town, what a mess)
or not-at-all (as in Oxford, what a shite-hole). You often find that
piecemeal developments end up eating more of the green-belt because
resources, such as provision for parking, are duplicated.
For instance, I love the way that you can do the national speed limit almost
all of the way into MK, because of the way the residential areas are laid
out.
I've heard that the Shi'ite Muslims from Iraq who are not supporting the new
government being set up there are thinking of emigrating to Oxford because
it is a shi'ite hole.
James
BTW everybody, My missus is in Brize Norton at the moment - anything you
want her to keep an eye open for?
David Wright
Okay, for the pedants, Volkswagen's UK headquarters.
> I don't know much about canals, but surely Venice's canal boats weren't
> designed to be pulled by horses like British ones? Unless the horses
could
> climb walls like flies they would problems getting past some of the
terraces
> that do not have towpaths - so of course Milton Keynes has more towpaths
> than Venice! Just like Wales has more mountains than Norfolk.
Okay, more water frontage then - more areas of land fronting onto canals
than Venice.
> One of the greatest things in Milton Keynes is the Xscape Snow Dome -
there
> aren't many real snow indoor slopes in the World and it dominates the
> landscape. Xscape are building another one in Leeds.
The Leeds one, which faces the motorway, is particularly ugly compared to
the MK one. Personal opinion.
> From the layout and architecture, I always get
> the feeling of being back in California - but without the good weather or
> healthly living.
Not having been to California, I couldn't comment on that - but today the
weather is certainly something to smile about :)
David.
john-locke
female gender of said fire stn. She reliably informs me that the place in
question, has now become their gym, they removed the armoured doors in the
early 90s & anything else, telcomms, telex printers, etc, was removed as
part of the county down sizing & civil protection expenditure. It was in
fact something of a considerable burden on the County to keep up.
However, I've always wondered if the Police stn which is next door was
always connected with their own hole, if Bletchley plod had one. Then with
the proximity to BP, I being a bit of a conspiracist in those days, would
speculate that everything was perhaps a bit TOO close to together for
comfort. But the only u/g thing that concerned the fire fighters ,was the
fun & games trying to locate the BP BR stn tunnel, as they felt sooner or
later, someone was going to fall down a rather large hole on their stn
doorstep! (so to speak).
Yours,
John Locke.
David Wright
Of course - there are probably holes and tunnels all over the place that we
don't know about - just two years ago they discovered the tunnel linking
Bletchley Park to the Eight Belles PH - presumably so people staying at the
coaching house (as was) could make their way to BP without being seen.
David.
"john-locke" <john-...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:YZ9na.92$a46....@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net...
john-locke
we
> don't know about - just two years ago they discovered the tunnel linking
> Bletchley Park to the Eight Belles PH - presumably so people staying at
the
> coaching house (as was) could make their way to BP without being seen.
Dear David,
As with ANY organisation that employs a number of personnel on some security
sensistive work, you would want to ensure that more than one discreet form
of egress & ingress could be made without causing undue concern among locals
(thats gossip) or the more observant spotter (called HU-man INT-elligence or
spying). Even today, some ministry buildings & their satellite offices are
supposedly located in tower block offices where more than one major concern
employs ppl. I note that BP had an entrance that was used by outriders (DRs)
through what is now a grave yard. If we are to accept the word of the tour
guide (& my tour got that awfully nice former BP Wren!), the gate house post
would have been getting riders in & out every 30 seconds, hardly enough time
to light a fag in the tiny pillbox shelter at the gate, let alone draw on
it, before someone would arrive or start to go out, with paperwork needing
signing & checking. I am certain that BP would have used many gates for
their needs, as the operation had to run thru air raids (hence many
protected buildings with blast walls & thickened roofs).
Using PH would have been an ideal excuse for masses of civilians
"disappearing" into said establishment without too much interest being
raised, except for the obvious one, unrationed beer! The old Bovingdon
airfield is another place, where the Americans this time, dug a personnel
tunnel to two places in the village of Bovingdon without arosing too much
suspcion. One was a major public house in the centre of the village, some
two miles from the airfield & its second branch to a pumping stn next to the
village pond - which must have been something of an engineering feat to
undertake through the hard rock & chalk layers in the area. These were
intended to assist in the defence of the airfield itself, but later in the
war, the local Home Guard were allowed to "man" them - hence my knowledge
comes from a son of an uncle in the local HG.
As with the Bletchley retained fire fighters, they would like to have some
good knowledge about such risks, as they could well expect to attend shouts
to them sometime in the future. You are right, as time progresses more
tunnels & former holes WILL come to light, but hopefully in safe
circumstances for those making such a discovery.
John Locke.
Ada
> just two years ago they discovered the tunnel linking
>Bletchley Park to the Eight Belles PH - presumably so people staying at the
>coaching house (as was) could make their way to BP without being seen.
Sorry Dave
It doesnt exist... or at least, hasnt been found yet !
Ada
David Wright
> It doesnt exist... or at least, hasnt been found yet !
Was it not reported in the MK Citizen then? If it was, what were they
reporting about? Could have sworn they had found it.
D.
Ada
Didnt realise the Citizen had ANY news in it at all .... :-)
I was talking to some bods who work at the park last year about
tunnels and things and they knew of the rumour but said they hadnt
found anything. When was the article printed ?
Maybe since my talk with them they've found it !
Regards
Ada
David Wright
> tunnels and things and they knew of the rumour but said they hadnt
> found anything. When was the article printed ?
> Maybe since my talk with them they've found it !
10th May 2000 - was reported in this NG at that time. See
http://tinyurl.com/9skn for Google archive of the thread.
David.
taniab...@gmail.com
i know these posts are are 14years old now but iam curious what MK has to say about bunkers to date? There is a lot more thing's to consider now in 2017. Obviously war is still a main concern to people but what about the possibilty of cosmic radiation flares? It is A major topic in science at the moment of pole shifts and something is upseting our whole galaxy. Radiation will leak through our atmosphere killing millions. The elite have prepared for this and its fact we will left to die in a radioacive world. So if this was to happen we will need nuclear bunkers to survive. And food and water should be stored too. Any ideas? Tazz...@hotmail.co.uk
i am an mk resident and care for the people in this town
ajb...@gmail.com
ajb...@gmail.com
Michael & Julie Claridge
> Email me at ajb...@gmail.com if you want to know more or even group meet so I can show where I think it is!!! Ant