Giving Blood
Ivan Peters
of time after giving blood. Can anyone confirm this and does anyone know
how long the period of time is?
Cheers
Ivan
Craig Poxon
It depends....
I think Dr. John reads the newsgroup so he is better qualified to
answer this than me but this is my take on things. Even if he doesn't
reply, he's very helpfull. The BPA office will give you his number.
I think the recommendation in this country is not to jump for three
months after giving blood, much like the minimum interval between
donations due to the lower level of haemoglobin in the blood. However,
in the States they have blood "drives" on the dropzone, where you get
a free jump ticket for donating but are told to not jump until the
next day. How can that be? I think it is difference for each person
and we tend to err (heavily) on the side of caution in this country.
These are some factors that are less than beneficial if you intend to
give blood and skydive: are you female? do you have a tendency to
anaemia? are you a lightweight (weren't you recently described as
having the freefall characteristics of a feather Ivan?) do you have a
diet that is low in iron (vegatarian?)? are you unfit? are you a
smoker? does the plane you regularly jump from take a long time to
climb to altitude? does the plane you regularly jump from often get
held at altitude or make more than one pass?
If you are concerned about giving blood and continuing to jump you
might want to consider plasmapheresis. This process can take up to two
hours (hence the number of people willing to do it is a lot lower than
whole blood donation) but the oxygen-carrying red-blood cells are
returned to you. Apart from the fluid loss, which is replenished
within 24 hours, there is no detrimental effects which could hamper
your skydiving.
Like I said, give Dr. John a ring or contact the National BLood
Service to find out about plasmapheresis:
http://www.bloodnet.nbs.nhs.uk
--
Craig
D11665 FSB5
http://www.poxon.org/Craig/Skydive/
Gus
there's an increased risk of hypoxia with less blood in the body. I just
have to plan well in advance when I know I won't be jumping for a bit.
Blues,
Gus
Gary McGuinness
got her to to ask them.
And to summarise they said don't bother, you may feel fine after a day or
so, but it takes many weeks for you to get your oxygen carrying red blood
cells back to normal.
Skydiving did a very good article recently on hypoxia, and it basically said
that you do not realise how hypoxic a lot of people get without noticing
(without adding blood transfusion to the mixing pot), it would be even worse
for smokers.
I also scuba dive which is another dimension.
Gary
"Ivan Peters" <iv...@ivanpeters.com> wrote in message
news:979638497.13005.0...@news.demon.co.uk...
Gary McGuinness
about 4500 feet.
Hence jumps run is approaching 18000 feet.
Gary
"Craig Poxon" <cr...@poxon.org.NOSPAM> wrote in message
news:8b786tkr26mi6tv8s...@4ax.com...
Ivan Peters
I think the answer is to stay away from this afternoons blood drive and do
some more research and planning before next time (I should have done it in
December).
Cheers
Ivan
Ben-RndFlg32349
unacceptable sports.
I cannot donate until I stop jumping, period.
"Ivan Peters" <iv...@ivanpeters.com> wrote in message
news:979638497.13005.0...@news.demon.co.uk...
Fiona Birnie
because of skydiving!!
Fi
Ben-RndFlg32349 <blo...@bloggs.com> wrote in message
news:FmX86.179195$eT4.14...@nnrp3.clara.net...
Gary McGuinness
out.
Did you mention skydiving when there.
If you can dig up the article in Skydiving about hypoxia it may make you
think again, and that didn't even mention giving blood.
I check to see if they will send me a copy.
Gary
"Fiona Birnie" <Fi...@birnief.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9425gc$6pm$1...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
Fleminm
affect, I do usually try to leave 24hrs.I think its common sense if u feel
light headed dont jump!.
Ian.
Ivan Peters
New Zealand.
Disclaimer: this is just some general information about the effect of blood
donation on haemoglobin levels. She doesn't have any particular knowledge
about skydiving or what minimum levels might be appropriate. In other
words, this is not doctors advice. Go to your normal doctor for that.
======
The easy way to do this is next time you give blood ask them what your
haemoglobin level is. They measure this on the pin prick test you have
first. For a man, any thing above about 140 is adequate.If after all the
sky diving it is up nearer to 160 or 170 or even higher then it is adequate
for anything. They only drop you 10 or 20 Hb points after taking blood. The
worst problem is with removing fluid from the blood vessel system, and
sometimes people feel a little dizzy or faint for a day or so after giving
blood. Then the body equalibilises again and all is hokey dokey. You might
not want to jump out of planes for a day or two after givng blood but that
is all the time that you need, unless your Hb is low (below say 120 to start
before giving blood), but most blood centres won't bleed you if your initial
count is on the low side. The easiest way to deal with all this is to check
your level, give blood, sky dive after a day or so if you feel well and as a
lifestyle thing eat lots of red meat to keep your Hb high. Now in England
with mad cow disease this is a bit of a problem, how is the lamb
situation???? Or buy NZ exported stuff.
======
Cheers
Ivan
Gary McGuinness
Think when you read this your mind will be changed.
Ian do you feel okay to drive after drinking 3 pints of lager ?
Do you understand the term 'grid reference waiting to happen ?'
Gary
"Fleminm" <fle...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010116170904...@ng-fo1.aol.com...
Ivan Peters
I thought it was "crater looking for a grid reference"...
Louise Cliff
I used to give blood regularly, long before I started jumping.
No one mentioned to me when I started jumping that I shouldn't give
blood and no one from the transfusion service told me I shouldn't
jump. But I didn't tell them I did anyway and they didn't ask.
After one particular blood donation, I had a bit of a problem (not
connected to skydiving) and later that day was rushed into hospital
with blue lights, sirens, the works.
After treatment, I was fine, but on hearing I was a skydiver (I was
accompanied to hospital by fellow jumpers), I was lectured by the
doctor strongly on the advisability of giving up either jumping or
donating blood. I was a little bit spaced at the time but can recall
her telling me that the body replaces the blood cells within 24 hours,
but the haemoglobin component (the one that carries oxygen) takes
about 6 weeks to regain normal levels. Therefore flying in
unpressurised aircraft increases the risk of hypoxia considerably.
I have not given blood since!!!
Lou
Simon
pilots) as they are subject to the same type of 'environmental' changes as
we are. I would guess that there will have been some research done on this
somewhere.
Simon
"Simon" <simon.l...@DIESPAMbtconnect.com> wrote in message
news:KZh96.886$eI2.31559@NewsReader...
Found this research paper on a medical database which might be relevant -
anyone want to order it? It seems to apply to pressurized aircraft (although
they tend to be pressurized to about 7000 feet in my experience so it may
not be too off the mark)
1: Aviat Space Environ Med 1975 Jun;46(6):830-5
Anemia and airline flight duties.
Scott V
This investigation developed and provides guidelines for the determination
and
medical release of flight crew members for duty with hemoglobin values less
than
normal. This dilemma occurs commonly to the flight surgeon following blood
donation, resolved hemorrhagic disorders, chronic idiopathic blood
disorders,
and pregnancy. Minimum safe values were computed and tabulated for otherwise
healthy individuals at rest and exercise at the routine extremes of the
flight
environment of present pressurized jet airliners from known physiological
parameters. These values were then correlated with the records of 62 pilots
and
stewardesses with subnormal hemoglobin values to assure the opertional
predictive validity.
PMID: 1156292, UI: 75224422
Ivan Peters
"Simon" <simon.l...@DIESPAMbtconnect.com> wrote in message
> Found this research paper on a medical database which might be relevant -
> anyone want to order it?
How much does it cost to order?
Simon
Library costs £10-£15 a time I think which is a bit much really. You may
also be able to order papers from other university libraries etc.
"Ivan Peters" <iv...@ivanpeters.com> wrote in message
news:979745224.23420.0...@news.demon.co.uk...
Fleminm
lift of the day???
Ian.
Adam Leech
the body
> replaces the blood cells within 24 hours, but the haemoglobin component
> (the one that carries oxygen) takes about 6 weeks to regain normal levels.
6 weeks sounds familiar. I remember beoing told that it took a long time
(now you mention it, 6 weeks) to fully recover, hence I don't give blood any
more.
--
Blue skies &
soft landings,
Adam.
'In the event of a main canopy malfunction you have the
rest of your skydiving career to deploy your reserve.'
John Parker
guess 7000 is the uuper limit.
John
"Simon" <simon.l...@DIESPAMbtconnect.com> wrote in message
news:Kri96.1489$wL5.24546@NewsReader...
Dan
Ben-RndFlg32349 wrote:
> I used to be a blood donor in the UK but skydiving is on their list of
> unacceptable sports.
Is this in the uk?
John Carter
Also copies of relevant parts of BPA Ops Manual, BPA Med Cert and article
from Sport Parachutist in 1991 and in 2000. Hope they help a bit!
John Carter
COPY OF LETTER TO LESLEY GALE, early 2000:
Dear Lesley,
Thankyou for your enquiry about skydiving and blood donation. I attach
three documents which may be of relevance.
There has certainly been no change in BPA policy on this matter for as long
as there has been an Ops Manual. The Medical Section clearly states that
parachuting and giving blood are incompatible. For at least the last ten
years the "Advice to Parachutists" on the back of the Medical Declaration
form has referred to the possibility of Blood Donation causing problems and
to the need to seek medical advice if you have given blood recently.
It is my understanding that the Blood Transfusion Service's Standing
Advisory Committee on Donor Selection considered this matter in February
1992 and that there has been no change in their policy since then, though
the policy itself may not have been applied very consistently at some
centres until recent years. In the BTS, as in many other parts of the NHS,
there is now a much more controlled implementation of policy and a much
greater awareness of risk management or risk avoidance. As you yourself
noted in your e-mail of 9th February, you encountered a similar policy ten
years ago. Regular skydivers form less than 0.005% of the population of
Great Britain. Their exclusion from blood donation is therefore not a
significant loss to the BTS.
It is extremely unlikely that either the BPA or the BTS will attempt to
write a formal protocol to regulate how to be both a blood donor and a
skydiver. It would involve each organisation in regulation and legal
liability in areas where they have limited knowledge, little to gain and a
lot to lose if something went wrong. There is no simple time interval which
could be applied between donation and jumping to provide a safe recovery
period. I did write to Sport Parachutist about this matter in August 1991
(copy attached) in order to help those who wish to mix the two activities.
However, this is "unofficial" advice and is unlikely to be adopted as
official BPA policy. I believe the BPA office has some copies of my letter
of August 91should anyone wish to obtain a copy. It is not practical to put
more information about this on the back of the medical form as this is only
one of hundreds of areas where a short book could easily be written.
Although you could reprint my letter from 1991, I suspect that a general
encouragement to read the advice on the medical form and occasionally to
browse parts of the Ops Manual would be more helpful. Sadly, many jumpers
have little knowledge of any parts of the Ops Manual. It is not just in
relation to blood donation that there is much misunderstanding of
regulations and, consequently, opportunity for mishap! There are many
professions, sports and activities where huge improvements in safety and
efficiency can be obtained, not by writing new regulations or advice, but by
simply advertising and implementing the rules and advice that have already
been published.
As far as flying and blood donation is concerned, I don't feel it is my
place to express an opinion. However, it is worth noting that the altitudes
and physical exertion routinely involved in skydiving are often very much
greater than those routinely experienced in many other branches of aviation.
It is best to contact the governing body or authority that regulates your
personal type of flying as their regulations may be quite different to ours.
Yours sincerely,
John Carter
EXTRACT FROM BPA OPS MANUAL
SECTION 11
MEDICAL
2.5. Blood Donors.
Sport parachutists are advised that parachuting and giving blood are not
compatible. Whilst the quantity of blood is quickly replaced after donation,
the necessary oxygen retaining qualities required at altitude are not.
EXTRACT FROM BACK OF BPA MEDICAL CERTIFICATE:
NOTES FOR PARACHUTISTS Parachutists need a reasonably high standard of
physical fitness and must not be overweight in relation to their sex, age,
and height. No person above the age of 50 years will normally be accepted
for novice parachute training. Exceptions to this rule may be allowed if the
candidate either has previous experience or is of a high standard of fitness
and can convince the instructor of that fitness.
Aswell as the conditions listed overleaf, the following may cause problems
to parachutists and if you have ever suffered from any of them you must seek
medical approval before parachuting:
Previous fractures, back strain, arthritis and severe joint sprains. Chronic
bronchitis. Asthma. Rheumatic fever. Pneumothorax. Liver or Kidney disease.
Thyroid, adrenal or other glandular disorder. Chronic ear or sinus disease.
Any condition which requires the regular use of drugs. Anaemia. Recent blood
donation.
COPY OF LETTER PUBLISHED IN SPORT PARACHUTIST 1992 AND REPRINTED IN 2000:
Dear Sir,
re: Blood Donation and Skydiving
It was nice to see some constructive ideas from Hugh Montgomery on how to
avoid getting AIDS from blood transfusion in developing countries.
Unfortunately, skydiving while giving blood regularly is not always
straightforward.
The Blood Transfusion Service has an excellent series of checks to confirm
that you are fit to give them your blood and remain well during normal
activities at ground level. However, these checks were not designed to
ensure that you will be fully fit to skydive at altitude after giving blood.
Most of us like to think that we are unaffected by the reduction in oxygen
at altitude but the facts are that our concentration and co-ordination are
impaired as we go higher and we often fail to notice it. At 8,000 ft there
is impairment of recently learned skilled tasks (i.e. more brain locks). At
10-15,000 ft there is impairment even on well ingrained skilled tasks (more
misjudged approaches, bad dockings, bombings) and physical stamina is
reduced (floaters falling off, tandem masters having stiff pilot chute pulls
after heaving a heavy student around). Any exertion or exposure to cold
makes the situation worse and increases the normally tiny risk of faintness
or dizziness. With these factors already working against you, any reduction
in the oxygen carrying capacity of the blood is clearly unacceptable.
After giving blood, the volume is rapidly replaced, but the oxygen carrying
capacity is not. Giving a pint of blood may reduce the oxygen carrying
capacity by over 10%. This will not matter to you at ground level but may
make a big difference to how well your skydive goes at altitude. Most blood
donors restore their blood to near to predonation levels within a few weeks
but a minority may take several weeks (the slowest being small framed people
with diets low in iron, particularly women with heavy periods).
If you want to give blood and continue to skydive:
Ask the BTS for your Haemoglobin level (this is checked routinely before you
give blood).
Do not jump at all within a week of donating.
Ask your doctor to recheck your Haemoglobin level 1 - 2 weeks after
donation. (This is not an NHS service and there may be a charge.)
Do not jump above 5,000 ft until your haemoglobin is within 5% of its
original level.
If this seems like too much hassle, the solution is to avoid mixing
skydiving and blood donation. Unless STC decides to change it, the BPA Ops
Manual continues to read "parachuting and giving blood are not compatible"
(Section 11).
Nowadays some people give just plasma and have their red cells returned to
them. Plasma donors should be able to skydive safely after 48 hours.
Yours sincerely,
John Carter, BPA Medical Adviser.