"Charity parachutist dies in plunge"
Craig Poxon
"A man has died after his canopy failed to open during a charity
parachute jump.
Stephen Priestley died in a 500-foot plunge at Hibaldstow Airfield,
Lincolnshire.
The 36-year-old, of Greenwood Avenue, Hull, was married with three
young children.
It is understood he was doing his second jump for charity when the
accident happened.
"The man had been undertaking a parachute jump when there appears to
have been a problem with his main parachute," she said.
"It would appear the emergency chute then failed to inflate in time
and the parachutist fell some 500 feet. Tragically the man was
pronounced dead at the scene."
Humberside Police are investigating."
Bad year. BSBD.
--
Craig
D11665 FSB5
http://www.poxon.org/Craig/Skydive/
Rich Orford
Condolences to anyone affected by this
Does anyone know or is willing to share more of an insight as to what
happened here?
--
Have Fun & Stay Safe
Rich :o)
*******************************************************************
* Don't take life too seriously. You'll never get out of it alive *
*******************************************************************
Rich Orford
sorry, perhaps I should have taken my signature off that one.
BSDB - rich
tagster
be a common factor
Involved in all of these. Is it the container the exit pos, the cutaway
drills. I am not 100% sure but i think
that all the student fatalities this year have been on zerox containers is
there a problem with the res deploying from this container! i seem to
remember having a problem with it in america something about it not tso'd .i
just cant work it out what keeps going wrong does any one else have any
ideas.
tagster
IB1
more static line jumps done per year will result in more injuries and deaths
per year..
perhaps the type of people doing this is changing too...
more rich kids doing it because it's "cool" rather than people that are more
"swiched on"
i've noticed a marked increase in landing injuries over the last 6 months as
against the past 3/4 years
"tagster" <tag...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:9tbflp$r0g$1...@neptunium.btinternet.com...
Bryan Teeson
I dont think that all the fatalities have been on the zerox container , Im
not going to expand on that so dont ask.
Condolences
My thoughts are with the family (I have three children myself so this one
has hit home so to speak)
Bryan
Tim
parachuting accidents and whether or not someone comes from a wealthy
background.
Just a thought.
Condolences to all involved.
Tim
IB1 <I...@no.spam> wrote in message
news:H4cK7.10151$8s4....@news.indigo.ie...
Craig Poxon
>perhaps it is relative...
>
>more static line jumps done per year will result in more injuries and deaths
>per year..
What, even if safety (equipment, training etc) improves?
>perhaps the type of people doing this is changing too...
>
>more rich kids doing it because it's "cool" rather than people that are more
>"swiched on"
>
>i've noticed a marked increase in landing injuries over the last 6 months as
>against the past 3/4 years
Is this your own opinion, just like your opinion about the durability
of PdF equipment or do you have the injury statistics to back this up?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>"tagster" <tag...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>news:9tbflp$r0g$1...@neptunium.btinternet.com...
>> It seams that more and more static line students are going in and there
>must
>> be a common factor
>> Involved in all of these. Is it the container the exit pos, the cutaway
>> drills. I am not 100% sure but i think
>> that all the student fatalities this year have been on zerox containers is
>> there a problem with the res deploying from this container! i seem to
>> remember having a problem with it in america something about it not tso'd
>.i
>> just cant work it out what keeps going wrong does any one else have any
>> ideas.
>>
>> tagster
>>
>>
>
ib1
but to address your points...
with static line equipment i don't think that safety of equipment and
training has changed that much in the last 5 years.. certainly not in the
clubs i know about, although i agree that it has improved for tandems and
experienced jumpers, there is more information more widely available, AADs
are more common etc.
however the volume of jumps has increased.
yes this is an opinion. based on the number of times i have seen students
being carted away in ambulances from my home DZ this year as apposed to the
previous years.
no i don't have spastics to back it up, i have better things to be doing
with my time... i'm sure the figures are availale at the DZ
i do not claim this to be fact.. but i find it tiresome to be challenged on
an opinion, i am capable of remembering that the ambulance wasn't here that
often for the past few years that i have been jumping.... i'm not out to
convine anyone or prove anything... take it or leave it.
as for tim's comment>>
i wasn't suggesting that it was because they were rich...
it was pedantic to take that out of context, i was making the point that the
type of people coming to do a jump has changed over the past 5 years.
and this seems to coincide with the injury increase. 5 years ago, you had
to be more determined that you really wanted to do a parachute jump, rather
than just do it just because you could,
i think that this influenced the type of people turning up.
more disposable income means more "less intrested people"
i have not intrested in getting in a lenghty thread...
c-ya
"Craig Poxon" <cr...@poxon.org.NOSPAM> wrote in message
news:4jlivt005ou5issat...@4ax.com...
David Mitchell
First of all I do believe that you are wrong to make your own conclusions ,
until the relvant advanced instructors
carry out their our fatality enquiry via BPA STC. If you are'nt 100% sure
of the type of equipment I would say that you should'nt put a name to the
rig.
You have publicly named a British manufacturer which no doubt will start a
question of safety of this rig, are you suitably qualified to do so ?.
I know from experience that ALL manufactures of parachute gear have or have
had problems at some time with their product.
I do however like you understand that there is a serious problem with static
line students. It does seem that entanglements are the problem right now and
at our DZ we are addressing the situation as best we can by emphasizing the
importance of a good exit and if entangled in the lines to try to unentangle
prior to malfunction drills. This is just a few of many changes made by our
CCI.
I know that the BPA are presently conducting an evaluation with all BPA
Instructors and Riggers to prevent further fatalities (sadly too late in the
last incident),
I can't answer fully about the TSO but I'm sure Thomas Sports Equipment Ltd
may help or maybe the USPA ?.
Any how I'm sure that now that we have lost another skydiver to this sport
something will change.
We must ask why after years of using the same equipment, aircraft, exits and
malfunction drills are we having problems now ? .
I like everyone else await the answer (if indeed there is one).
Dave
TY
Tim wrote:
> I very much doubt as to whether the is any direct correlation between
> parachuting accidents and whether or not someone comes from a wealthy
> background.
> Just a thought.
> Condolences to all involved.
>
> Tim
you rich, Timster?
TY
Craig Poxon wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:21:05 -0000, "IB1" <I...@no.spam> wrote:
>
> >perhaps it is relative...
> >
> >more static line jumps done per year will result in more injuries and deaths
> >per year..
>
> What, even if safety (equipment, training etc) improves?
But it doesn't. Just ask MOM. ;o)
Tim
Tim
>
>
> Craig Poxon wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:21:05 -0000, "IB1" <I...@no.spam> wrote:
> >
> > >perhaps it is relative...
> > >
> > >more static line jumps done per year will result in more injuries and
deaths
> > >per year..
> >
> > What, even if safety (equipment, training etc) improves?
>
> But it doesn't. Just ask MOM. ;o)
We Love Mr MOM. He's so cool.
sitflyr
"ib1" <n...@spam.com> wrote in message
news:0ydK7.10204$8s4....@news.indigo.ie...
> no i don't have spastics to back it up,
You sure about that?
Julie
TY
Tim wrote:
> Unbelievably.
Even all the money in the world can't buy you an ALF# though. Too bad. ;o)
Tim
Tim
TY <skyd...@net1plus.com> wrote in message
news:3BF9CAFA...@net1plus.com...
tagster
that any container is worse or better than any one elses and im sure that
the examiners involved will come to a conclusion about what happened .No one
on this group can say that they havnt thought about what may be going wrong
every one is entitled to their own opinion .you remember the 10 qualities of
a sp instructor enquiring mind saftey concious and the rest, well that is
all i am doing. If any one else can shed any more light on the situation
then please do. I agree that there is a biger flow of static line studens
than in previous years and stats will increase or decrease acordingly what i
dont agree with is the good year bad year theory we are all people not a
farmers yeild
I am sory for the families involved and im sure all our deepest sympathys
are with them all
If we all tried that bit harder to make a differance and it resulted in one
person not getting a bruise on landing then it must be worth it
Tagster
andynude
"David Mitchell" <David.M...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:9tbtv1$kki$1...@neptunium.btinternet.com...
[snip]
It does seem that entanglements are the problem right now and
> at our DZ we are addressing the situation as best we can by emphasizing
the
> importance of a good exit and if entangled in the lines to try to
unentangle
> prior to malfunction drills. This is just a few of many changes made by
our
> CCI.
It's one thing to emphasize the importance of a good exit but I wonder how
many students actually realise that their poor exit could actually lead to
their death. Going by the amount of poor exits that I see I would suggest
that the students have no idea of this.
> We must ask why after years of using the same equipment, aircraft, exits
and
> malfunction drills are we having problems now ?
One reason could be attributed to the replacement of RAPS over rounds.
Theses problems did not exist with round static line students because a
body/main entanglement was not as likely to lead to an "unlandable canopy"
and if it did and reserve procedures were then carried out, then the chances
of a main reserve entanglement leading to an "unlandable reserve" we very
slim. Therefore with rounds it was not important to have a good exit
position.
It ought to be made very clear to students that if they get it wrong then
they could die.
--
Andynude
www.its-natural.net
Skydog
I don't know about other centres but I teach the consequences of a poor
exit. And yes that does include telling them that they could be seriously
injured or even die. I also try and explain what to do in case of
entanglement.
In these days of litigation we have a duty to tell all our students the
consequences of their actions.
I think with the BPA already looking into entanglements and a possible
solution we are starting to address the situation
Bryn
"andynude" <andy...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9te33k$sik$1...@plutonium.btinternet.com...
David Mitchell
In reply to your comments, at our DZ (Peterlee) we as Instructors make it
very clear that the two main times during the jump that they can seriously
get injured or lead to being killed are the EXIT and LANDING phases. This
has been implemented as a direct result of recent incidents, all of the
instructors lesson plans have been amended to emphasise this, I'm sure that
other DZ's are also changing.
You mention about the amount of poor exits you see, if this is Static Line
jumpers what is being done to stop it from continuing ? i.e. if I despatched
a lift of students and all of them were exiting incorrectly then I would try
to address the problem ASAP. I do think that most Instructors do try but
Students are Students and....... well that "I'll do what I think is best"
attitude sometimes happens, also first time jumpers make mistakes we are
human after all.
I started jumping on "round" canopies (in 1985) and gave up after having a
Mal on my first 3 sec delay !.(I continued on AFF in 1989)
I do agree that the risks of the problems we are encountering right now
probably wouldn't happen on rounds system. But I doubt that we will go back
to rounds (or will want to), an friend JT (who's been around skydiving a bit
longer than me, 150+ yrs) mentioned to me that square parachutes were never
made for the static line system in the first place.
I personally don't believe we'll come up with a solution that will cure this
problem we have right now , but we live in hope.
Lots of idea's are kicking around, just do AFF,Round reserves on S/L etc.
I don't disagree with you Andy, just letting every one know that CCI's are
trying the address the situation.
Dave Mitch
"andynude" <andy...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9te33k$sik$1...@plutonium.btinternet.com...
>
David Mitchell
an opinion but some are better evidenced than others, good reply.
Dave Mitch
"tagster" <tag...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:9tdlc6$d6n$1...@neptunium.btinternet.com...
j.botham
I remember having problems with stability on sit exits until I was shown a
'bunny hop' exit. It certainly made a hell of a difference. Any thoughts?
(Obviously this wouldn't apply to a step exit)
Mike C
David Mitchell <David.M...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:9ted3b$1kd$1...@plutonium.btinternet.com...
andynude
> Hi Andynude,
Hi Dave Mitch
If there was a saftey device to stop this "poor exit problem" it's use would
become mandatory very quickly. We seem to have entered an era of "safty
devices rule OK" and are failing to tackle the problem at its root.
Like it or not there are some folk that are just not up to the physical and
mental demands of the training and jumping. Consequently the minimum
acceptable level of training that the student must acheive reflects this
inability. Therefore students are cleared as ready to jump when (IMVHO) they
are not adequetly trained. Those that do have the aptitude and fitness are
only trained to a minimum standard.
> You mention about the amount of poor exits you see, if this is Static Line
> jumpers what is being done to stop it from continuing ?
Similar to what you discribe - better training - more emphasis etc but this
does not tackle the problem at its root.
i.e. . I do think that most Instructors do try but
> Students are Students and....... well that "I'll do what I think is best"
> attitude sometimes happens, also first time jumpers make mistakes we are
> human after all.
This tolerance is typical of instructors. To coin a well known phrase "If at
first you don't succeed - skydiving is not for you!" The reality is that
people get hurt and die in this sport because they get it wrong in some way
or another. Getting it wrong can start off on the first day in the classroom
and if they start off completely wrong and with the wrong attitude they
should not progress to the jumping bit.
> I started jumping on "round" canopies (in 1985) and gave up after having a
> Mal on my first 3 sec delay !
This is interesting. Was the "giving up" a result of your mal. If so did you
not actually realise that canopies *did* mal? In the early days I was
convinced on every single jump that the canopy would mal and it was always a
surprise when it didn't. But that was how we were trained to think.
We didnt have the namby pamby safety devices that the modern day jumper
needs to be safe. We had ourselves and our training to fall back on. We now
have hoards of first timers that need complete looking after and really
ought to be doing a bungee jump instead. We are expecting just too much from
some of theses folk when expecting them to perform a "good exit".
--
Andynude
www.its-natural.net
Alan Wilkinson
>
> Hi Dave Mitch
>
> If there was a saftey device to stop this "poor exit problem" it's use would
> become mandatory very quickly. We seem to have entered an era of "safty
> devices rule OK" and are failing to tackle the problem at its root.
Andy,
I assume you are refering to the use of AAD's, as well as saving lives the AAD
also
gives us an insight to what happened from the nearest eyewitness(the jumper)
who would
have been dead without the AAD. Safety devices do rule OK and they also help
prevent the same happening
in the future.
> Like it or not there are some folk that are just not up to the physical and
> mental demands of the training and jumping. Consequently the minimum
> acceptable level of training that the student must acheive reflects this
> inability. Therefore students are cleared as ready to jump when (IMVHO) they
> are not adequetly trained. Those that do have the aptitude and fitness are
> only trained to a minimum standard.
Are you an Instructor? Are you qualified to offer opinions on whether or not
students are ready to Jump?
Is this based on a 5 minute look at them or do you spend 8 hours watching their
full training?
If you are indeed an instructor you are making a terrible accusation on fellow
instructors
if you are not an instructor, why not go do a BI course and help change the
situation rather than slag off
all the instructors who are trying to make the system safer. Don't sit at your
PC
whinging about how bad it is, do something!
As a CCI I would never let anyone jump who I thought wasn't ready mentally or
physically
I encourage every instructor who has a doubt about a student to seek a second
opinion on this student.
> > You mention about the amount of poor exits you see, if this is Static Line
> > jumpers what is being done to stop it from continuing ?
>
> Similar to what you discribe - better training - more emphasis etc but this
> does not tackle the problem at its root.
>
> i.e. . I do think that most Instructors do try but
> > Students are Students and....... well that "I'll do what I think is best"
> > attitude sometimes happens, also first time jumpers make mistakes we are
> > human after all.
>
> This tolerance is typical of instructors. To coin a well known phrase "If at
> first you don't succeed - skydiving is not for you!" The reality is that
> people get hurt and die in this sport because they get it wrong in some way
> or another. Getting it wrong can start off on the first day in the classroom
> and if they start off completely wrong and with the wrong attitude they
> should not progress to the jumping bit.
Again, stop whinging and do something about it yourself
> > I started jumping on "round" canopies (in 1985) and gave up after having a
> > Mal on my first 3 sec delay !
>
> This is interesting. Was the "giving up" a result of your mal. If so did you
> not actually realise that canopies *did* mal? In the early days I was
> convinced on every single jump that the canopy would mal and it was always a
> surprise when it didn't. But that was how we were trained to think.
>
> We didnt have the namby pamby safety devices that the modern day jumper
> needs to be safe. We had ourselves and our training to fall back on. We now
> have hoards of first timers that need complete looking after and really
> ought to be doing a bungee jump instead. We are expecting just too much from
> some of theses folk when expecting them to perform a "good exit".
I agree, safety devices are not a substitute for good training, but I believe
the training
is better now then it was a few years ago. And we have the benefit of safety
devices to
cover the unexpected or the human factor! (people do screw up from time to
time)
Alan
> Andynude
> www.its-natural.net
--
Posted from webtrack.cwcom.co.uk [194.6.81.93]
via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
SkydiveAcademy
exit & body position, breaking at the waist or the like, can lead to
entanglement which in turn may lead to serious injury or death. I know that
other CCIs are following this line too. As it happens this latest incident does
not appear to have been caused by an entanglement problem. In time the findings
of this and other incidents will be released to us by the appropriate people,
STC, safety notices etc as necessary. Let us keep the enquiring minds operating
but as others have also inferred let us not suggest blame on any particular
cause or eqpt until we have the facts. Speculation can dam good eqpt, fact will
ground it if necessary.
andynude
"Alan Wilkinson" <al...@skydivers.co.uk> wrote in message
news:a46cb053b3ed919695e...@mygate.mailgate.org...
>
> I assume you are refering to the use of AAD's,
No, it was generic and based on attitudes rather than devices.
> Are you an Instructor?
No
> Are you qualified to offer opinions on whether or not
> students are ready to Jump?
No
> Is this based on a 5 minute look at them
No
or do you spend 8 hours watching their
> full training?
Not any more :-)
> If you are indeed an instructor you are making a terrible accusation on
fellow
> instructors
There was no accusation.
> if you are not an instructor, why not go do a BI course
Been there...
and help change the
> situation rather than slag off
> all the instructors who are trying to make the system safer. Don't sit at
your
> PC
> whinging about how bad it is, do something!
Erm! There was no whinging, nor slagging off. (however I suspect that a
nerve has been touched). I also do not beleive that an instructor by
theirself can really make that much difference to the acceptence and
training of students in the UK overall.
BTW. This is a discussion group. All that I am doing is discussing "God
bless all instructors" (esp. CCI's) :-)
> As a CCI I would never let anyone jump who I thought wasn't ready mentally
or
> physically
> I encourage every instructor who has a doubt about a student to seek a
second
> opinion on this student.
I am sure that your attitude is united with all other instructors, but like
it or not, there appears to be a large number slipping through.
> Again, stop whinging and do something about it yourself
I'm not whinging
> I agree, safety devices are not a substitute for good training, but I
believe
> the training
> is better now then it was a few years ago. And we have the benefit of
safety
> devices to
> cover the unexpected or the human factor! (people do screw up from time to
> time)
Aha! The crux of the matter - I agree that the training is better than it
has ever been but then the equipment is more advanced than it has been (for
1st timers) too.
The problem lies with a lack of any screening or selection to train. It is
hoped that those that are not up to scratch will be weeded out in training -
they just aint. (IMVVVVVHO) The Dollar God seems to be partially responsible
:-)
Andy Crawford
David Mitchell
>
> "David Mitchell" <David.M...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:9ted3b$1kd$1...@plutonium.btinternet.com...
> > I started jumping on "round" canopies (in 1985) and gave up after having
a
> > Mal on my first 3 sec delay !
>
> This is interesting. Was the "giving up" a result of your mal. If so did
you
> not actually realise that canopies *did* mal? In the early days I was
> convinced on every single jump that the canopy would mal and it was always
a
> surprise when it didn't. But that was how we were trained to think.
> > We didnt have the namby pamby safety devices that the modern day jumper
> needs to be safe. We had ourselves and our training to fall back on.
Hi Andy,
I gave up jumping yes, because it frightened the hell out of me ! this only
happened in 1985 not 1945, parachute eqp was still reliable and did have the
"namby pamby safety" devices you mention.
The malfunction happened because I was unstable when I deployed, I did rely
on my training ,I pulled as instructed and carried out malfunction drills
when needed (and boy as I remember it I needed it !!!)
As an Instructor I do see students make mistakes and that's part of the
sport, ask any skydiver if they've ever messed up and I'll show you a liar
if they say no. I don't know if you're an instructor if you are you must
know how hard we try to get it right and if you're not, try looking into
being one, it can be very rewarding and satisfying to see students progress
(safely of course).
Dave Mitch
David Mitchell
true.
Dave Mitch
"andynude" <andy...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9tgro3$4g9$1...@neptunium.btinternet.com...
jo...@patch.demon.co.uk
Pete
I thought you were still scare on every jump :)
- Pete Mac
Alan Wilkinson
>
> Aha! The crux of the matter - I agree that the training is better than it
> has ever been but then the equipment is more advanced than it has been (for
> 1st timers) too.
>
> The problem lies with a lack of any screening or selection to train. It is
> hoped that those that are not up to scratch will be weeded out in training -
> they just aint. (IMVVVVVHO) The Dollar God seems to be partially responsible
> :-)
>
> Andy Crawford
Andy,
Glad to see you have a sense of humour in there and I even agree with you, on
the
screening or selection issue. But what do we do? Interveiw them?
Try being a Tandem Instructor, you wait at the DZ on a saturday morning and
watch
what walks in the door. 90% of the people you wouldn't want to stand next
to in the pub, let alone strap them onto you for half an hour!
Static line students are the same, I was watching some students being trained
a few weeks ago and one of them was a complete F**Kwit, but given a chance
and some good training, she actually was quite switched on, but on first
impressions
I wouldn't have let her fly a kite nevermind a parachute. My point being,
people are
all different and first impressions shouldn't always be lasting.
God bless all instructors? Don't you forget it, especially at the bar :-)
Alan
--
Posted from proxy3.enta.net [195.74.96.19]
Dan Argent
couldn't we rig up some kind of mockup about ten feet off the ground, from
which the students actually exit, and then are stopped by a bungee and a
crash mat.
Or rather the question is, is there any way to know who's going to do a poor
exit
before the first jump? Is sitting in a mockup on the ground sufficent?
ahhh, well.
dan
Craig Poxon
<d...@REMOVESPAMcs.man.ac.uk> wrote:
>I'm not an instructor, and this already sounds stupid as I type it, but
>couldn't we rig up some kind of mockup about ten feet off the ground, from
>which the students actually exit, and then are stopped by a bungee and a
>crash mat.
>
>Or rather the question is, is there any way to know who's going to do a poor
>exit
>before the first jump? Is sitting in a mockup on the ground sufficent?
>
>ahhh, well.
>
>dan
Not quite what you were thinking but Skydive Cyprus have an
interesting Mock Exit Trainer:
http://skydivecyprus.com/images/Mockexit.jpg
>
>
>
>> You mention about the amount of poor exits you see, if this is Static Line
>> jumpers what is being done to stop it from continuing ? i.e. if I
>despatched
>> a lift of students and all of them were exiting incorrectly then I would
>try
>> to address the problem ASAP. I do think that most Instructors do try but
>> Students are Students and....... well that "I'll do what I think is best"
>> attitude sometimes happens, also first time jumpers make mistakes we are
>> human after all.
>>
>
andynude
>
> Hi Andy,
> I gave up jumping yes, because it frightened the hell out of me !
Hey! Thats all part of the fun. And overcoming that fear is part of the
acheivement!
> As an Instructor I do see students make mistakes and that's part of the
> sport, ask any skydiver if they've ever messed up and I'll show you a liar
> if they say no.
Yes, but there are mistakes and there are situations where there was no way
the the skydiver had a hope in hell of performing at the required level.
With regard to students they should be able to perform the very *very*
basics at an acceptable level. That means they understand what is required
and actually making a fair attempt at doing it - some of them just don't
(IMVHO).
I don't know if you're an instructor if you are you must
> know how hard we try to get it right
No I am not and yes I do. This is not an instructional problem though. As I
see it the problems that we have here is the result of the Nannying Culture
that has developed over the last 20 years. We try to make things safer by
making the activity more controlled and turning to saftey devices and yet
more rules. At the same time we fail to attack the root of the problem and
allow anyone to have a go. Like it or not, participating in skydiving is
like many other sports, motorcycling, horseriding, fishing - they carry a
risk of death.
and if you're not, try looking into
> being one, it can be very rewarding and satisfying to see students
progress
LOL Been there... But we wont go down that road.
--
Andynude
www.its-natural.net
andynude
>
> Andy,
>
> Glad to see you have a sense of humour
This is omly Usenet - not to be taken too seriously :-)
in there and I even agree with you, on the
> screening or selection issue. But what do we do? Interveiw them?
I certainly think that there should be some kind of "pre-training selection
programme" (for RAPS anyway) which would screen for a basic ability to
digest information/agility/fitness/aptitude etc. Skydiving is just not for
everyone. It's unfair expect them to perform at the required level - some
just cant hack it. But we continue to accept *anyone* for training and then
fail a few if we really have to.
> Try being a Tandem Instructor, you wait at the DZ on a saturday morning
and
> watch
> what walks in the door. 90% of the people you wouldn't want to stand next
> to in the pub, let alone strap them onto you for half an hour!
Yeah! I've Been there...
But then this is a slightly different kettle. The TI has a vested interest
in the students survival and it is ultimately down to the TI to say "no -
*I* dont want to take the risk".
> Static line students are the same, I was watching some students being
trained
> a few weeks ago and one of them was a complete F**Kwit, but given a chance
> and some good training, she actually was quite switched on, but on first
> impressions
> I wouldn't have let her fly a kite nevermind a parachute. My point being,
> people are
> all different and first impressions shouldn't always be lasting.
Indeed, hence the need for structured initial assesment methinks.
--
Andynude
www.its-natural.net
Note: All my views are completely worthless and I am not qualified to make
any observation regarding the conduct of sport parachuting due to not being
"an instructor"
Bethany
jump in here!
Im a third year psychology student about to start my final year
project.. and i am trying to investigate the problem of why people make
the wrong decisions/ do the wrong drills when the crunch comes. ie exits
or if it comes to it, drills. is there any common factors in those who
dont do it right and if there are can we "pre screen" people before they
jump? how can we improve the training for those we think are at risk?
Having known people effected by accidents and watcing the one at hib on
sunday i think it is pritty important that we do some thinking about
this.
any comments or ideas about how i could take this on? anyone klnow of
anything previously investigated?
cheers,
Lurker.. aka Beth King
Dan Argent
>
> Not quite what you were thinking but Skydive Cyprus have an
> interesting Mock Exit Trainer:
>
> http://skydivecyprus.com/images/Mockexit.jpg
>
Question is, can you test if people can do a good exit from it?
TY
Alan Wilkinson wrote:
> And we have the benefit of safety
> devices to
> cover the unexpected or the human factor! (people do screw up from time to
> time)
>
yup. Happened today. A very heads up experienced skydiver (over 1000 jumps) had
a spinning malfunction and had a very hard time cutting away... struggled with 2
hands and then got sent flying and for some reason he tried too long to get stable
or whatever and his CYPRES fired. Heard he got line stretch with twists a second
before landing. He was ok. Lucky guy.
Ivan Peters
"Dan Argent" <d...@REMOVESPAMcs.man.ac.uk>
Doing a good exit in the relatively calm environment of training is easy.
Getting it right in the noise and wind when you are nervous, scared, excited
all at once and don't have the opportunity to go around and do it again is a
whole different thing.
Not sure if there is any way to simulate that.
john
On a rainy practice day our 10-way speed team practiced exits from an
Otter by putting two large foam mats under the door and then running out
as usual. Not only did it work, it was great fun too even though I was
bottom of the resulting heap.
BTW 10-way speed is a US event, requiring single file exit from a side
door plane (such as a Twin Otter), with the jumpers starting behind a
diagonal line on the floor of the plane. Clock starts when the line is
crossed and stops when the formation is complete. Some exit pictures at
http://www.iit.edu/~kallend/skydive.html
Martin Evans
> "Alan Wilkinson" <al...@skydivers.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:ab81708f082376ff2dc...@mygate.mailgate.org...
> >
> > Andy,
>watch
> > what walks in the door. 90% of the people you wouldn't want to stand
next
> > to in the pub, let alone strap them onto you for half an hour!
> Yeah! I've Been there...
Me too...
I think I was with you actually Andy! ;-)
Blue ones,
Stay Safe.
Martin Evans.
For information about Sky-Eye Skydiving Services please visit our website
at:
http://www.skyeyeskydiving.com
After browsing please follow the link to Skydive Delmarva.
"Never confuse movement with action". Ernest Hemingway
"andynude" <andy...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9tiqff$dbv$1...@uranium.btinternet.com...
>
Martin Evans
"john" <pr...@teamfunnel.com> wrote in message
news:3BFFBFAA...@teamfunnel.com...
> On a rainy practice day our 10-way speed team practiced exits
> BTW 10-way speed is a US event, requiring single file exit from a side
> door plane (such as a Twin Otter), with the jumpers starting behind a
> diagonal line on the floor of the plane. Clock starts when the line is
> crossed and stops when the formation is complete. Some exit pictures at
> http://www.iit.edu/~kallend/skydive.html
Yep! Never been done outside of the USA!
Especially in GB!
Now again, what did I get those medals for way back when...?
--
kallend
Martin Evans wrote:
> Now again, what did I get those medals for way back when...?
>
The Boer war?
Martin Evans
"kallend" <jo...@kallend.net> wrote in message
news:3C000C89...@kallend.net...
>
>
> Martin Evans wrote:
>
> > Now again, what did I get those medals for way back when...?
> >
>
> The Boer war?
>
You're a funny, funny fucker!
;-)
but not so far of base. My Great Great Grandfather on my Mothers side (nee'
Maxfield) was awarded the Victoria Cross, posthumously for his participation
at the Battle of Rorkes Drift (as depicted on the big screen in the movie
ZULU)! Silly fucker shoulda run like the wind!
Note I said Great, Great Grandfather!
;-P
andynude
"Martin Evans" <skyeyes...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:pySL7.222244$W8.78...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> I think I was with you actually Andy! ;-)
>
either. And I certaily dont ever recall being strapped to you for half-hour.
Mebbe it was someone else that looked like me at one of those gay bondage
parties...
--
Andynude
www.its-natural.net
Martin Evans
Small dick?
GAY (wasn't it you that went on holiday with Rob Sinclair to KEY WEST, gay
capital of the western hemisphere)?
I'm sure it was, because me and my GIRLFRIEND drove 6 hours round trip to
Miami airport to pick you two lovebirds up, only too get there and find
you're plane arrived early and you decided you were in too much of a hurry
to get 'into' all that Key West has to offer to wait for us to get there!
Grudge, grudge, NO, I don't hold no grudges!
;-P
Glad to see you haven't changed over the years though Andy, you're still
missing the joke!
Alright, if I have to spell it out here goes...
> "Alan Wilkinson" <al...@skydivers.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:ab81708f082376ff2dc...@mygate.mailgate.org...
>watch
> > what walks in the door.
> 90% of the people you wouldn't want to stand
next
> > to in the pub,
You said:
> Yeah! I've Been there...
I said:
Me too...
I think I was with you actually Andy! ;-)
*******************************************************
the clue to the joke between us was that neither of us tandemed the other
but we have spent many hours standing next to each other in the pub!
Sheeezzzz!
Forget it!
;-)
--
kallend
Martin Evans wrote:
> "kallend" <jo...@kallend.net> wrote in message
> news:3C000C89...@kallend.net...
> >
> >
> > Martin Evans wrote:
> >
> > > Now again, what did I get those medals for way back when...?
> > >
> >
> > The Boer war?
> >
>
> You're a funny, funny fucker!
>
> ;-)
>
> but not so far of base. My Great Great Grandfather on my Mothers side (nee'
> Maxfield) was awarded the Victoria Cross, posthumously for his participation
> at the Battle of Rorkes Drift (as depicted on the big screen in the movie
> ZULU)! Silly fucker shoulda run like the wind!
>
> Note I said Great, Great Grandfather!
>
Was your great great grandfather Michael Caine or Stanley Baker?
(excellent movie, BTW).
Bryan Teeson
Martin Evans
"Bryan Teeson" <br...@NOSPAMteeson.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9trlti$rt4$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Can you sing 'Men of Harlech' Martin??????
Only if you hold by balls really tight!
;-)
Martin Evans
>
>
> Martin Evans wrote:
>
> > "kallend" <jo...@kallend.net> wrote in message
> > news:3C000C89...@kallend.net...
> > >
> > >
> > > Martin Evans wrote:
> > >
> > > > Now again, what did I get those medals for way back when...?
> > > >
> > >
> > > The Boer war?
> > >
> >
> > You're a funny, funny fucker!
> >
> > ;-)
> >
> > but not so far of base. My Great Great Grandfather on my Mothers side
(nee'
> > Maxfield) was awarded the Victoria Cross, posthumously for his
participation
> > at the Battle of Rorkes Drift (as depicted on the big screen in the
movie
> > ZULU)! Silly fucker shoulda run like the wind!
> >
> > Note I said Great, Great Grandfather!
> >
>
> Was your great great grandfather Michael Caine or Stanley Baker?
If either of them were that'd make me about 40 years younger than you...
instead of 25!
;-)
JM
Didn't you leave one on a tractor?
JM
Martin Evans
"JM" <john.mayo@tesco(DOT)net> wrote in message
news:8ytM7.13140$fa1.2...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> Surely this is impossible!!
>
> Didn't you leave one on a tractor?
>
> JM
>
> > Only if you hold by balls really tight!
> >
> > ;-)
> >
> > --
> > Blue ones,
> > Stay Safe.
> >
> > Martin Evans.
I still had 'em both 'til '83, then gave one up to cancer!
The one left though is so big it feels like a pair!
John, I'm a little concerned that you seem so intimate with my tackle!
;-p
JM
JM
"Martin Evans" <skyeyes...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:_dvM7.129899$WW.81...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Will Payne
>Surely this is impossible!!
>
>Didn't you leave one on a tractor?
Latest Darwin Award Nominee from the Orlando Sentinel.
Based on a bet by the other members of his threesome, Everett
Sanchez tried to wash his own "balls" in a ball washer at the
local golf course. Proving once again that beer and testosterone
are a bad mix, Sanchez managed to straddle the ball washer
and dangle his scrotum in the machine. Much to his dismay, one
of his buddies upped the ante by spinning the crank on the
machine with Sanchez's scrotum in place, thus wedging them solidly
in the mechanism. Sanchez, who immediately passed his threshold
of pain, collapsed and tumbled from his perch. Unfortunately, the
height of the ball washer was more than a foot higher off the ground
than his testicles are in a normal stance, and the scrotum was the
weakest link. Sanchez's scrotum was ripped open during the fall,
and one testicle was plucked from him forever and remained in the
ball washer, while the other testicle was compressed and flattened
as it was pulled between the housing of the washer, and the rotating
machinery inside. To add insult to injury, Sanchez broke a new $300
driver that he had just purchased from the pro shop, and was using
to balance himself. Sanchez was rushed to the hospital for surgery,
and the remaining two members of the threesome were asked to leave
the course.
Martin Evans
"JM" <john.mayo@tesco(DOT)net> wrote in message
> "Martin Evans" <skyeyes...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:_dvM7.129899$WW.81...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> >
> > "JM" <john.mayo@tesco(DOT)net> wrote in message
> > news:8ytM7.13140$fa1.2...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> > >
> > > >
> > > > ;-)
> > > Surely this is impossible!!
> > >
> > > Didn't you leave one on a tractor?
> > >
> > > JM
> > Nope!
> >
> > I still had 'em both 'til '83, then gave one up to cancer!
> >
> > The one left though is so big it feels like a pair!
> >
> > John, I'm a little concerned that you seem so intimate with my tackle!
> >
> > ;-p>
>I remember your 16 way team "27 balls and 2 pockets"!
>
> JM
Oh Yeah! I guess that was a bit of a give away eh!
Take care.