Nitrogen

[Tease'n'Seize]

How come none of the journalists seem to understand that Nitrogen itself
isn't some dreadful poison gas, and it's effectively air with all the
oxygen removed? Someone expressed concern that if there was a leak, it
could harm the observers ...

[John Williamson]

It is the same type of ignorance that led to a large percentage of
people in a survey agreeing that dihydrogen monoxide should be banned
after they had been told that 100% of all serial killers had consumed it
less than 24 hours before they committed the crime.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[nev young]

On 26/01/2024 09:11, Tease'n'Seize wrote:

Would've been cheaper to just put a plastic bag over his head.
Who cares if he squirms in discomfort for a few mins.

OK so I woke up grumpy this morning.

--
Nev
It causes me a great deal of regret and remorse
that so many people are unable to understand what I write.

[John Williamson]

On 26/01/2024 09:22, nev young wrote:
> On 26/01/2024 09:11, Tease'n'Seize wrote:
>> How come none of the journalists seem to understand that Nitrogen
>> itself isn't some dreadful poison gas, and it's effectively air with
>> all the
>> oxygen removed? Someone expressed concern that if there was a leak,
>> it could harm the observers ...
>
> Would've been cheaper to just put a plastic bag over his head.
> Who cares if he squirms in discomfort for a few mins.
>

The report on the BBC this morning said he did that anyway.

[Nicholas D. Richards]

In article <l1hbpj...@mid.individual.net>, John Williamson
<johnwil...@btinternet.com> on Fri, 26 Jan 2024 at 09:19:47 awoke
Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote

It is denied to people on the Liverpool pathway.
--
0sterc@tcher -

"Oů sont les neiges d'antan?"

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

At my PPOE they have many environmental test chambers used to
torture servers before sale, among other things they have a nitrogen feed
from a GBFO liquid nitrogen tank outside. The route to the canteen passes
by all of this (and past the loading bay so watch out for forklifts).
There's a leak detection system that triggers a loud alarm and orange
flashy light, it's one of the first things pointed out to new employees
during disorientation. We're told that if the alarm goes off we should
leave the area quickly and that without it we wouldn't notice anything
until we passed out and died shortly afterwards because there's no CO2
build up to trigger distress.

It occurred to be then that if there must be a death penalty
(something I strongly disagree with) then execution by sealing the cell and
flooding it with nitrogen without warning while the prisoner is asleep
would be the most humane method possible.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
For forms of government let fools contest
Whate're is best administered is best - Alexander Pope

[Peter]

Ahem A Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> wrote in
news:20240126101022.0e75...@eircom.net:

>
> It occurred to be then that if there must be a death penalty
> (something I strongly disagree with) then execution by sealing the
> cell and flooding it with nitrogen without warning while the prisoner
> is asleep would be the most humane method possible.

I suppose that if people dislike someone enough to kill them they won't be
worried if the person feels a bit of discomfort on their way out.

--
Peter
-----

[Peter]

Tease'n'Seize <tease-and-seize@invalid> wrote in
news:0RudnbYDAdnZ6i74...@brightview.co.uk:

I noticed that as well, on the beeb news yesterday. But journos in general
are not known for their grasp of science.

--
Peter
-----

[John Williamson]

On 26/01/2024 10:10, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

> At my PPOE they have many environmental test chambers used to
> torture servers before sale, among other things they have a nitrogen feed
> from a GBFO liquid nitrogen tank outside. The route to the canteen passes
> by all of this (and past the loading bay so watch out for forklifts).
> There's a leak detection system that triggers a loud alarm and orange
> flashy light, it's one of the first things pointed out to new employees
> during disorientation. We're told that if the alarm goes off we should
> leave the area quickly and that without it we wouldn't notice anything
> until we passed out and died shortly afterwards because there's no CO2
> build up to trigger distress.
>

It has killed many lorry drivers when they use it to chill the freezer
compartment and they don't leave the door open for long enough for the
oxygen outside to permeate in.

> It occurred to be then that if there must be a death penalty
> (something I strongly disagree with) then execution by sealing the cell and
> flooding it with nitrogen without warning while the prisoner is asleep
> would be the most humane method possible.
>

Carbon monoxide is completely painless and very effective. They call it
the silent killer, and you don't need much. My alarm on the boat goes
off at 20 parts per million, 100 ppm is guaranteed fatal before you
realise what is going on.

[Jim the Geordie]

In article <l1hbpj...@mid.individual.net>,
johnwil...@btinternet.com says...

Try not to use it 'Fishes make love in it' (W.C.Fields)

--
Jim the Geordie

[soup]

On 26/01/2024 09:22, nev young wrote:

> On 26/01/2024 09:11, Tease'n'Seize wrote:
>> How come none of the journalists seem to understand that Nitrogen
>> itself isn't some dreadful poison gas, and it's effectively air with
>> all the
>> oxygen removed?  Someone expressed concern that if there was a leak,
>> it could harm the observers ...
>
> Would've been cheaper to just put a plastic bag over his head.
> Who cares if he squirms in discomfort for a few mins.
>
> OK so I woke up grumpy this morning.

You should have let him have a long lie.

[Brian Gaff]

Yes they would suffocate. I often wonder why smokers get so crotchety, I
reckon its all the carbon monoxide and dioxide they get with their nitrogen
and oxygen. Do you realise you can use helium with your oxygen and no harm
willcome to you except you will sound like a chipmunk.
Brian

--

--:
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The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Tease'n'Seize" <tease-and-seize@invalid> wrote in message
news:0RudnbYDAdnZ6i74...@brightview.co.uk...

[Brian Gaff]

Is not nitrogen in many older suspensions of Citroen cars?
I think its also why the sky is blue.
If we put more raw oxygen in the atmosphere the world would burn the next
time a bolt of lightening struck.

Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
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Note this Signature is meaningless.!

"Peter" <mys...@prune.org.uk> wrote in message
news:XnsB1057113C3...@135.181.20.170...

[Tease'n'Seize]

Brian Gaff wrote:

> Do you realise you can use helium with your oxygen and no harm

> will come to you except you will sound like a chipmunk.

Do the scubaists call it heliox?

Surprised that the apollo astronauts weren't 'hyper' due to breathing
pure O2?

[Richard Robinson]

The R4 reporting said it explicitly; there is no legal requirement that
it be painless.


--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Fri, 26 Jan 2024 13:12:35 -0000
"Brian Gaff" <brian...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Is not nitrogen in many older suspensions of Citroen cars?

Yes and the same suspension parts got used in some Rolls Royce
cars (it was apparently cheaper to get spares from Rolls Royce than from
Citroen), it's also used to inflate aircraft tyres and sometimes car tyres.
The atmosphere is a little under 80% nitrogen.

[hub...@ccanoemail.com]

On Fri, 26 Jan 2024 13:53:35 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
<ste...@eircom.net> wrote:

>On Fri, 26 Jan 2024 13:12:35 -0000
>"Brian Gaff" <brian...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Is not nitrogen in many older suspensions of Citroen cars?
>
> Yes and the same suspension parts got used in some Rolls Royce
>cars (it was apparently cheaper to get spares from Rolls Royce than from
>Citroen), it's also used to inflate aircraft tyres and sometimes car tyres.
>The atmosphere is a little under 80% nitrogen.

Here-abouts the nitrogen-filled car tires will often sport
a green coloured valve cap.
My memory of long-ago teachings is that we breathed
78 % nitrogen 21 % oxygen 1 % other
John T.

[John Williamson]

On 26/01/2024 13:39, Tease'n'Seize wrote:

> Brian Gaff wrote:
>
> Surprised that the apollo astronauts weren't 'hyper' due to breathing
> pure O2?

Pressure inside the capsules was 5 psi, or about a third of normal
atmospheric pressure, except at launch, when it was 16 psi. Most of the
time, the oxygen pressure was about the same as it is at sea level.

[Tim+]

Ahem A Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> wrote:

> It occurred to be then that if there must be a death penalty
> (something I strongly disagree with) then execution by sealing the cell and
> flooding it with nitrogen without warning while the prisoner is asleep
> would be the most humane method possible.

Indeed, it *could* be the most humane method but the Americans are
determined that those condemned must suffer, hence their use of a totally
cackhanded technique.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

[Tim+]

But they were breathing at low pressure as building a craft that ran at
atmospheric pressure would have added weight.

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On 26 Jan 2024 15:15:23 GMT

Tim+ <timdo...@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:

> But they were breathing at low pressure as building a craft that ran at
> atmospheric pressure would have added weight.

Yep - also they didn't want to haul the nitrogen and there's less
leakage at low pressure.

[Tim+]

Ahem A Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> wrote:

> On 26 Jan 2024 15:15:23 GMT
> Tim+ <timdo...@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:
>
>> But they were breathing at low pressure as building a craft that ran at
>> atmospheric pressure would have added weight.
>
> Yep - also they didn't want to haul the nitrogen and there's less
> leakage at low pressure.
>

And what could possibly go wrong with a 100% oxygen atmosphere?

[John Williamson]

Unfortunately, we know the answer to that one.

[soup]

On 26/01/2024 17:48, Tim+ wrote:

Ask the crew of Apollo 1.
Oh you can't.

[Sam Plusnet]

On 26-Jan-24 9:22, nev young wrote:
> On 26/01/2024 09:11, Tease'n'Seize wrote:
>> How come none of the journalists seem to understand that Nitrogen
>> itself isn't some dreadful poison gas, and it's effectively air with
>> all the
>> oxygen removed?  Someone expressed concern that if there was a leak,
>> it could harm the observers ...
>
> Would've been cheaper to just put a plastic bag over his head.
> Who cares if he squirms in discomfort for a few mins.
>
> OK so I woke up grumpy this morning.
>

If you move around more quietly, Grumpy can get a full nights sleep.

--
Sam Plusnet

[Sam Plusnet]

On 26-Jan-24 11:16, John Williamson wrote:
> On 26/01/2024 10:10, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>
>>     At my PPOE they have many environmental test chambers used to
>> torture servers before sale, among other things they have a nitrogen feed
>> from a GBFO liquid nitrogen tank outside. The route to the canteen passes
>> by all of this (and past the loading bay so watch out for forklifts).
>> There's a leak detection system that triggers a loud alarm and orange
>> flashy light, it's one of the first things pointed out to new employees
>> during disorientation. We're told that if the alarm goes off we should
>> leave the area quickly and that without it we wouldn't notice anything
>> until we passed out and died shortly afterwards because there's no CO2
>> build up to trigger distress.
>>
> It has killed many lorry drivers when they use it to chill the freezer
> compartment and they don't leave the door open for long enough for the
> oxygen outside to permeate in.
>
>>     It occurred to be then that if there must be a death penalty
>> (something I strongly disagree with) then execution by sealing the
>> cell and
>> flooding it with nitrogen without warning while the prisoner is asleep
>> would be the most humane method possible.
>>
> Carbon monoxide is completely painless and very effective. They call it
> the silent killer, and you don't need much.

But you wake up with a terrible headache...

As you were.

--
Sam Plusnet

[Sam Plusnet]

Things you didn't realise were flammable & self-igniting - until
someone increased the O2 content.

--
Sam Plusnet

[Sam Plusnet]

On 26-Jan-24 13:53, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Jan 2024 13:12:35 -0000
> "Brian Gaff" <brian...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Is not nitrogen in many older suspensions of Citroen cars?
>
> Yes and the same suspension parts got used in some Rolls Royce
> cars (it was apparently cheaper to get spares from Rolls Royce than from
> Citroen), it's also used to inflate aircraft tyres and sometimes car tyres.
> The atmosphere is a little under 80% nitrogen.
>

Nostalgia! My first car had Hydragas suspension.

--
Sam Plusnet

[Simon]

Would that make the OP Happy? ;-)

--
Simon

RLU: 222126

[Brian Gaff]

Yes I know. The suits they still use on the ISS use a low pressure oxygen in
them as far as I am aware, on the other hand, The Russian suits use normal
sea level air pressure, but this can make the joints harder to move.

Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!

"soup" <inv...@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:up176j$3159b$2...@dont-email.me...

[me9]

It should be mollished impossible for journos and polly tic ians to get wbos
unless they had degrees in other than journalism or pollty tics, even a
degree of common sense woould help.

--
braind

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Tue, 30 Jan 2024 01:25:04 +0000
me9 <m...@privacy.net> wrote:

> It should be mollished impossible for journos and polly tic ians to get
> wbos unless they had degrees in other than journalism or pollty tics,
> even a degree of common sense woould help.

Get a Degree in Common Sense at the University of Life.

So could it really be done, a course to take 18 year old school
leavers and turn them into people with a demonstrably high level of common
sense in three years of university life.

[Peter]

Ahem A Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> wrote in
news:20240130094758.ee05...@eircom.net:

> On Tue, 30 Jan 2024 01:25:04 +0000
> me9 <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> It should be mollished impossible for journos and polly tic ians to
>> get wbos unless they had degrees in other than journalism or pollty
>> tics, even a degree of common sense woould help.
>

> So could it really be done, a course to take 18 year old school
> leavers and turn them into people with a demonstrably high level of
> common sense in three years of university life.

I suspect that the process would need to be started at a much younger age.
Maybe if training in the more accademic subjects were to be delayed a few
years in order for kids to be taught the importance of society, compassion,
maybe common semse if we could work out what that is (perhaps the ability
to reason, which many people seem to be lacking?) etc.

--
Peter
-----

[Bernard Peek]

Arbut. I've lost count of the number of people that start bogus arguments
with "It makes sense that..." or "It stands to reason that..." followed by
the latest conspiracy theory.

Almost all of the arguments that Evangelicals use to support creationism
over evolution are based on common-sense. For most people common-sense seems
to be what they were taught as gospel-truth at about the age of 14. Pterry
called it "telling lies to children."


--
Bernard Peek
b...@shrdlu.com
Wigan

[Jeff Gaines]

On 30/01/2024 in message
<20240130094758.ee05...@eircom.net> Ahem A Rivet's Shot
wrote:

>On Tue, 30 Jan 2024 01:25:04 +0000
>me9 <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>>It should be mollished impossible for journos and polly tic ians to get
>>wbos unless they had degrees in other than journalism or pollty tics,
>>even a degree of common sense woould help.
>
> Get a Degree in Common Sense at the University of Life.
>
> So could it really be done, a course to take 18 year old school
>leavers and turn them into people with a demonstrably high level of common
>sense in three years of university life.

Exercising common sense nowadays is severely frowned upon, to the extent
it's pretty well forbidden by the rules.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
I take full responsibility for what happened - that is why the person that
was responsible went immediately.
(Gordon Brown, April 2009)

[Peter]

"Jeff Gaines" <jgne...@outlook.com> wrote in
news:xn0ohfuoo...@news.individual.net:

> On 30/01/2024 in message
> <20240130094758.ee05...@eircom.net> Ahem A Rivet's
> Shot wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 30 Jan 2024 01:25:04 +0000
>>me9 <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>>
>>>It should be mollished impossible for journos and polly tic ians to
>>>get wbos unless they had degrees in other than journalism or pollty
>>>tics, even a degree of common sense woould help.
>>
>> Get a Degree in Common Sense at the University of Life.
>>
>> So could it really be done, a course to take 18 year old school
>>leavers and turn them into people with a demonstrably high level of
>>common sense in three years of university life.
>
> Exercising common sense nowadays is severely frowned upon, to the
> extent it's pretty well forbidden by the rules.

Thats because no-one knows what common sense actually is, or, rather,
everyone has their own individual idea of what it should be. As a measure
of rational thinking, the concept of common sense is useless.

--
Peter
-----

[Peter Brooks]

On Friday 26 January 2024 at 10:30:03 UTC, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

> On Fri, 26 Jan 2024 09:11:32 +0000
> Tease'n'Seize <tease-and-seize@invalid> wrote:
>
> > How come none of the journalists seem to understand that Nitrogen itself
> > isn't some dreadful poison gas, and it's effectively air with all the
> > oxygen removed? Someone expressed concern that if there was a leak, it
> > could harm the observers ...

> At my PPOE they have many environmental test chambers used to
> torture servers before sale, among other things they have a nitrogen feed
> from a GBFO liquid nitrogen tank outside. The route to the canteen passes
> by all of this (and past the loading bay so watch out for forklifts).
> There's a leak detection system that triggers a loud alarm and orange
> flashy light, it's one of the first things pointed out to new employees
> during disorientation. We're told that if the alarm goes off we should
> leave the area quickly and that without it we wouldn't notice anything
> until we passed out and died shortly afterwards because there's no CO2
> build up to trigger distress.
>

> It occurred to be then that if there must be a death penalty
> (something I strongly disagree with) then execution by sealing the cell and
> flooding it with nitrogen without warning while the prisoner is asleep
> would be the most humane method possible.
>

I think it is fairly clear that they aren’t wanting the most humane method. They actually want people to suffer mortal terror.

‘They’ being the people who think judicial murder a good, reasonable, and sensible idea, despite the mass of evidence showing that it has no more deterrent effect than less mediæval punishments, and is cruel.

[nev young]

Deterrents will never work as most criminals believe they won't get caught.

--
Nev
It causes me a great deal of regret and remorse
that so many people are unable to understand what I write.

[Peter]

nev young <newsforpa...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
news:upnglf$3ij6g$2...@dont-email.me:

> On 04/02/2024 03:59, Peter Brooks wrote:
>> On Friday 26 January 2024 at 10:30:03 UTC, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>
>>> It occurred to be then that if there must be a death penalty
>>> (something I strongly disagree with) then execution by sealing the
>>> cell and flooding it with nitrogen without warning while the
>>> prisoner is asleep would be the most humane method possible.
>>>
>> I think it is fairly clear that they aren’t wanting the most humane
>> method. They actually want people to suffer mortal terror.
>>
>> ‘They’ being the people who think judicial murder a good,
>> reasonable, and sensible idea, despite the mass of evidence showing
>> that it has no more deterrent effect than less mediæval punishments,
>> and is cruel.
>
> Deterrents will never work as most criminals believe they won't get
> caught.

I wonder if you have that backwards: deterrents work in most cases except
in the case of those who believe they won't get caught?



--
Peter
-----

[Abandoned Trolley]

>
> Deterrents will never work as most criminals believe they won't get caught.
>

Regardless of my views on capital punishment, "common sense" tells me
that it DOES work as a deterrent, insofar as it deters the offender from
committing any further crime.

However, there’s a worrying large number of murders committed by people
who have already been convicted of murder and then released, having
served their "life" sentence.

Since there is no way of measuring the number of people who were
thinking of committing a murder and then gave up on the idea prior to
the abolition of capital punishment, or their reason for doing so, I
don’t see that this "argument" can be proved one way or the other.

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Sun, 4 Feb 2024 10:54:07 +0000
Abandoned Trolley <fr...@fred-smith.co.uk> wrote:

>
> >
> > Deterrents will never work as most criminals believe they won't get
> > caught.
> >
> Regardless of my views on capital punishment, "common sense" tells me
> that it DOES work as a deterrent, insofar as it deters the offender from
> committing any further crime.

Up to a point. There was a time when the penalty for stealing was
death, which meant that if caught stealing the pragmatic response was to
attempt to kill your way to freedom - you couldn't get in any worse trouble.

> However, there’s a worrying large number of murders committed by people
> who have already been convicted of murder and then released, having
> served their "life" sentence.

The good news is that, as a cause of death, murder is way down near
the bottom of the list.

[Nicholas D. Richards]

In article <20240204111000.4b73...@eircom.net>, Ahem A
Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> on Sun, 4 Feb 2024 at 11:10:00 awoke
Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote

>On Sun, 4 Feb 2024 10:54:07 +0000
>Abandoned Trolley <fr...@fred-smith.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>> >
>> > Deterrents will never work as most criminals believe they won't get
>> > caught.
>> >
>> Regardless of my views on capital punishment, "common sense" tells me
>> that it DOES work as a deterrent, insofar as it deters the offender from
>> committing any further crime.
>
> Up to a point. There was a time when the penalty for stealing was
>death, which meant that if caught stealing the pragmatic response was to
>attempt to kill your way to freedom - you couldn't get in any worse trouble.
>

I would add that for capital offences (such as sheep stealing) it was
difficult to get a conviction where juries knew that the sentence would
be hanging. When property offences were removed from the Bloody Code,
and transportation was substituted, it became easier to obtain a
conviction.

>> However, there’s a worrying large number of murders committed by people
>> who have already been convicted of murder and then released, having
>> served their "life" sentence.
>
> The good news is that, as a cause of death, murder is way down near
>the bottom of the list.
>

--

0sterc@tcher -

"Où sont les neiges d'antan?"

[crn]

On 2024-02-04, Peter Brooks <peter.h....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
> I think it is fairly clear that they aren’t wanting the most humane method. They actually want people to suffer mortal terror.
>
> ‘They’ being the people who think judicial murder a good, reasonable, and sensible idea, despite the mass of evidence showing that it has no more deterrent effect than less mediæval punishments, and is cruel.

Who needs nitrogen ?.
We already have humane killers as used on cattle.

[Abandoned Trolley]

>> Up to a point. There was a time when the penalty for stealing was
>> death, which meant that if caught stealing the pragmatic response was to
>> attempt to kill your way to freedom - you couldn't get in any worse trouble.
>>
> I would add that for capital offences (such as sheep stealing) it was
> difficult to get a conviction where juries knew that the sentence would
> be hanging. When property offences were removed from the Bloody Code,
> and transportation was substituted, it became easier to obtain a
> conviction.

It sounds like you are almost suggesting that the death penalty was a
deterrent for the judiciary ?

[Jeff Gaines]

On 04/02/2024 in message <upo2aq$3liu0$1...@dont-email.me> Abandoned Trolley
wrote:

A deterrent to the jury perhaps?

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK

There are 10 types of people in the world, those who do binary and those
who don't.

[maus]

On 2024-02-04, Nicholas D. Richards <nich...@salmiron.com> wrote:
> In article <20240204111000.4b73...@eircom.net>, Ahem A
> Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> on Sun, 4 Feb 2024 at 11:10:00 awoke
> Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>>On Sun, 4 Feb 2024 10:54:07 +0000
>>Abandoned Trolley <fr...@fred-smith.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > Deterrents will never work as most criminals believe they won't get
>>> > caught.
>>> >
>>> Regardless of my views on capital punishment, "common sense" tells me
>>> that it DOES work as a deterrent, insofar as it deters the offender from
>>> committing any further crime.
>>
>> Up to a point. There was a time when the penalty for stealing was
>>death, which meant that if caught stealing the pragmatic response was to
>>attempt to kill your way to freedom - you couldn't get in any worse trouble.
>>
> I would add that for capital offences (such as sheep stealing) it was
> difficult to get a conviction where juries knew that the sentence would
> be hanging. When property offences were removed from the Bloody Code,
> and transportation was substituted, it became easier to obtain a
> conviction.
>

Free trip to down under. An alarming number of Irish people are going
there now, being replaced by `Ukranians' of all races, who we don't
know or don't want.

>>> However, there’s a worrying large number of murders committed by people
>>> who have already been convicted of murder and then released, having
>>> served their "life" sentence.
>>
>> The good news is that, as a cause of death, murder is way down near
>>the bottom of the list.
>>
>


--

grey...@mail.com
Is There not even one Influencer here to torment?

[Sn!pe]

ISTR that ArGooey would call for the Captive Bolt
to be used on an interloping troll.

--
^Ï^. Sn!pe, PA, FIBS - Professional Crastinator

My pet rock Gordon says:
The first duty of government is defence of the realm.

[Hymermut]

On 04/02/2024 12:38, crn wrote:
> Who needs nitrogen ?.
> We already have humane killers as used on cattle.

Is a captive bolt painless?

How do we know?

Tone

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

We've had no complaints from the victims.

[Sam Plusnet]

It isn't even a money-saving idea, since they seem to keep prisoners,
banged up on death row, for decades before carrying out the sentence.

--
Sam Plusnet

[Sam Plusnet]

And when will Bolt have finished serving their sentence and be freed?

--
Sam Plusnet

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

Bolt is just grateful for enlightened times, it used to be ,,,
...
...
burnee the Bolt.

igmc.

[Richard Robinson]

It depends what zbarl ? I'd guess it saves various ynjlref' bank
accounts from becoming depleted.


--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

[crn]

On 2024-02-04, Sn!pe <snip...@gmail.com> wrote:

> crn <c...@nospam.netunix.com> wrote:
>>
>> Who needs nitrogen ?.
>> We already have humane killers as used on cattle.
>
> ISTR that ArGooey would call for the Captive Bolt
> to be used on an interloping troll.

Oi- who are you calling a troll ?

[Sn!pe]

I see none here now, but I've deployed the CB on two or three.
There are quite a few further up the list if you want some practise,
like old Wally (he's off his trolley). Some froups are nothing but
t0rlls, as eny fule kno.

[Nicholas D. Richards]

In article <upo2aq$3liu0$1...@dont-email.me>, Abandoned Trolley <fred@fred-
smith.co.uk> on Sun, 4 Feb 2024 at 13:09:46 awoke Nicholas from his
slumbers and wrote
>

In a sense it was. Although prosecutor brings the charge to court and
the judge passes sentence, it is the jury, who are not part of the
judiciary, decide on guilt. It was juries who were reluctant to convict,
because they knew the consequence of a conviction.

Conviction rates went up once these relatively minor property offences
no longer attracted the death penalty.

The judiciary are reluctant to bring a charge to court if the chance of
conviction is low.
--
0sterc@tcher -

"Oů sont les neiges d'antan?"

[Nicholas D. Richards]

In article <upolhl$3p111$1...@dont-email.me>, Hymermut <to...@email.com> on
Sun, 4 Feb 2024 at 18:37:41 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote

You are absolutely right, we do not.

In any case it is not designed to kill, but to render cattle insensible,
prior to having their throats cut and allowing the cattle, sheep and
pigs to bleed out.

I am told that the French guillotine was a bloody affair.

[maus]

On 2024-02-05, Nicholas D. Richards <nich...@salmiron.com> wrote:
> In article <upolhl$3p111$1...@dont-email.me>, Hymermut <to...@email.com> on
> Sun, 4 Feb 2024 at 18:37:41 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>>On 04/02/2024 12:38, crn wrote:
>>> Who needs nitrogen ?.
>>> We already have humane killers as used on cattle.
>>
>>Is a captive bolt painless?
>>
>>How do we know?
>>
> You are absolutely right, we do not.
>
> In any case it is not designed to kill, but to render cattle insensible,
> prior to having their throats cut and allowing the cattle, sheep and
> pigs to bleed out.

That would be an eucuminical matter!

>
> I am told that the French guillotine was a bloody affair.

As in considering what way to end your own life, opinions differ. A rope
is popular and effective, as long as you consider that is breaking your
neck is the effective action, choking yourself takes time. A guy hung
himsellf slowly beside a railway line nearby, hung there choking as a
couple of trains went by. the problem with pills is that if they do not
work, you are looking at a lifetime of dialisis (sp?)

[Peter]

"Nicholas D. Richards" <nich...@salmiron.com> wrote in
news:8K5gaiBA...@salmiron.com:

I imagine that it was relatively painless, though. the sudden loss of blood
prssure in the brain would have caused instant unconsciousness, with brain-
death following soon after. But, and this is an important "but", I am not
volunteering to find out.

--
Peter
-----

[Abandoned Trolley]

>> I am told that the French guillotine was a bloody affair.
>

The "attraction" of the guillotine was that it brought the execution
method of the nobility to the masses

Prior to that there was an assortment of various burnings, hangings and
disembowellings for commoners - and any post mortem beheading was only
so that the head could be exhibited on a stake.

The nobility were expected to "rise to the occasion" and so were allowed
beheading

The other attraction of course would have been throughput. If you have a
couple of hundred people to execute then burning them at the stake is
going to take days.

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Mon, 5 Feb 2024 09:22:12 -0000 (UTC)
Peter <mys...@prune.org.uk> wrote:

> "Nicholas D. Richards" <nich...@salmiron.com> wrote in
> news:8K5gaiBA...@salmiron.com:
>

> > I am told that the French guillotine was a bloody affair.
>
> I imagine that it was relatively painless, though. the sudden loss of

I would be inclined to inflict severe pain on anyone who tried to
put my neck under one.

[Sn!pe]

Peter <mys...@prune.org.uk> wrote:

[...]

> > I am told that the French guillotine was a bloody affair.
>
> I imagine that it was relatively painless, though. the sudden loss of
> blood prssure in the brain would have caused instant unconsciousness,
> with brain- death following soon after. But, and this is an important "but",
> I am not volunteering to find out.

I'd rather have a bullet to the bonce, TYVM. Quick, certain, one click
and it's lights out. Perhaps it would be too gory for an executioner
with delicate sensibilities to clean up, though.

[Nicholas D. Richards]

In article <XnsB10F5F537D...@135.181.20.170>, Peter
<mys...@prune.org.uk> on Mon, 5 Feb 2024 at 09:22:12 awoke Nicholas

from his slumbers and wrote
>"Nicholas D. Richards" <nich...@salmiron.com> wrote in
>news:8K5gaiBA...@salmiron.com:
>
>> In article <upolhl$3p111$1...@dont-email.me>, Hymermut <to...@email.com> on
>> Sun, 4 Feb 2024 at 18:37:41 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>>>On 04/02/2024 12:38, crn wrote:
>>>> Who needs nitrogen ?.
>>>> We already have humane killers as used on cattle.
>>>
>>>Is a captive bolt painless?
>>>
>>>How do we know?
>>>
>> You are absolutely right, we do not.
>>
>> In any case it is not designed to kill, but to render cattle insensible,
>> prior to having their throats cut and allowing the cattle, sheep and
>> pigs to bleed out.
>>
>> I am told that the French guillotine was a bloody affair.
>
>I imagine that it was relatively painless, though. the sudden loss of blood
>prssure in the brain would have caused instant unconsciousness, with brain-
>death following soon after. But, and this is an important "but", I am not
>volunteering to find out.
>

By its very nature, it makes it impossible for us to know or
investigate.

We are all individuals and react differently to a stimulus. What might
be for one person instantaneous and painless, will be for another, an
extremely painful if short 'lived' experience.

As an example, heart attacks are extremely painful, yes? Well no, not
always for everyone. My brother had a heart attack. A doctor when
perusing his notes noticed that he had received no pain relief and asked
my brother why he had not asked for relief. He had felt no pain, none
at all, he had experienced a shed load of the other symptoms, but no
pain. He only called an ambulance when the weakness and feeling of doom
did not go away.

The pre-execution process must be extremely distressing and I suspect
that the prison authorities sanitise any reports. The medical reports on
Josef Jakobs (the last person executed in the Tower of London) have been
reported on in a TV program. He had lost control of his basic functions
(bowels, bladder, legs and so on) and had been dosed to the eyeballs
before his execution.

[Hymermut]

On 05/02/2024 12:43, Sn!pe wrote:
> Peter <mys...@prune.org.uk> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>>> I am told that the French guillotine was a bloody affair.
>>
>> I imagine that it was relatively painless, though. the sudden loss of
>> blood prssure in the brain would have caused instant unconsciousness,
>> with brain- death following soon after. But, and this is an important "but",
>> I am not volunteering to find out.
>
> I'd rather have a bullet to the bonce, TYVM. Quick, certain, one click
> and it's lights out. Perhaps it would be too gory for an executioner
> with delicate sensibilities to clean up, though.
>

It is mooted that drowning is quite a pleasant way to go, once you've
given up the struggle to breath air. I guess that depends on what you
are drowning in, though.

Tone

[Richard Robinson]

How would cutting major blood-vessels not be ?

[Richard Robinson]

Peter said:
> "Nicholas D. Richards" <nich...@salmiron.com> wrote in

>> In article <upolhl$3p111$1...@dont-email.me>, Hymermut <to...@email.com> on
>> Sun, 4 Feb 2024 at 18:37:41 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>>>On 04/02/2024 12:38, crn wrote:
>>>> Who needs nitrogen ?.
>>>> We already have humane killers as used on cattle.
>>>
>>>Is a captive bolt painless?
>>>
>>>How do we know?
>>>
>> You are absolutely right, we do not.
>>
>> In any case it is not designed to kill, but to render cattle insensible,
>> prior to having their throats cut and allowing the cattle, sheep and
>> pigs to bleed out.
>>
>> I am told that the French guillotine was a bloody affair.
>
> I imagine that it was relatively painless, though. the sudden loss of blood
> prssure in the brain would have caused instant unconsciousness, with brain-
> death following soon after. But, and this is an important "but", I am not
> volunteering to find out.

There was a story about someone who kept on blinking as long as he could
after his head was cut off. It says that he continued to do so for
several seconds. I don't know if it's true. Lavoisier ?

[Richard Robinson]

That could be the tricky bit, though.

V'q yvxr gb qvr crnprshyyl va zl fyrrc, yvxr zl sngure.
Abg fpernzvat va greebe yvxr uvf cnffratref.

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Mon, 5 Feb 2024 14:49:04 -0000 (UTC)
Richard Robinson <ric...@qualmograph.org.uk> wrote:

> Nicholas D. Richards said:

> > I am told that the French guillotine was a bloody affair.
>
> How would cutting major blood-vessels not be ?
>

Freeze first.

[Tim+]

Consciousness isn’t lost instantly when blood flow stops. Quickly yes, but
not instantly. I imagine those guillotined saw the approach of the basket
as their heads fell. Probably didn’t think about it for long though.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On 5 Feb 2024 15:35:46 GMT

Tim+ <timdo...@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:

> Consciousness isn’t lost instantly when blood flow stops. Quickly yes, but
> not instantly. I imagine those guillotined saw the approach of the basket
> as their heads fell. Probably didn’t think about it for long though.

Hopefully not long enough to think "Ow my nose!".

[Nicholas D. Richards]

In article <20240205151440.c9b0...@eircom.net>, Ahem A
Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> on Mon, 5 Feb 2024 at 15:14:40 awoke

Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote

>On Mon, 5 Feb 2024 14:49:04 -0000 (UTC)
>Richard Robinson <ric...@qualmograph.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> Nicholas D. Richards said:
>
>> > I am told that the French guillotine was a bloody affair.
>>
>> How would cutting major blood-vessels not be ?
>>
>Freeze first.
>

Or a red hot heated blade?

In case of doubt, I am not advocating any method of capital punishment,
or capital punishment at all.

[Nicholas D. Richards]

In article <upqsr9$b269$3...@dont-email.me>, Richard Robinson
<ric...@qualmograph.org.uk> on Mon, 5 Feb 2024 at 14:54:33 awoke

Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote

>Hymermut said:
>> On 05/02/2024 12:43, Sn!pe wrote:
>>> Peter <mys...@prune.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>>> I am told that the French guillotine was a bloody affair.
>>>>
>>>> I imagine that it was relatively painless, though. the sudden loss of
>>>> blood prssure in the brain would have caused instant unconsciousness,
>>>> with brain- death following soon after. But, and this is an important "but",
>>>> I am not volunteering to find out.
>>>
>>> I'd rather have a bullet to the bonce, TYVM. Quick, certain, one click
>>> and it's lights out. Perhaps it would be too gory for an executioner
>>> with delicate sensibilities to clean up, though.
>>>
>>
>> It is mooted that drowning is quite a pleasant way to go, once you've
>> given up the struggle to breath air.
>
>That could be the tricky bit, though.
>
>V'q yvxr gb qvr crnprshyyl va zl fyrrc, yvxr zl sngure.
>Abg fpernzvat va greebe yvxr uvf cnffratref.
>

Isn't that what happened to a Croydon tram driver a few years back,
except he woke up and discovered he was still alive, unlike some of his
passengers?

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Mon, 5 Feb 2024 16:31:32 +0000
"Nicholas D. Richards" <nich...@salmiron.com> wrote:

> In article <20240205151440.c9b0...@eircom.net>, Ahem A
> Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> on Mon, 5 Feb 2024 at 15:14:40 awoke
> Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
> >On Mon, 5 Feb 2024 14:49:04 -0000 (UTC)
> >Richard Robinson <ric...@qualmograph.org.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> Nicholas D. Richards said:
> >
> >> > I am told that the French guillotine was a bloody affair.
> >>
> >> How would cutting major blood-vessels not be ?
> >>
> >Freeze first.
> >
> Or a red hot heated blade?

They've got plasma cutters in iLld, perhaps need a bigger one.

[Tease'n'Seize]

Nicholas D. Richards wrote:

> Or a red hot heated blade?

IRTA "blonde" ...

[Nicholas D. Richards]

In article <upqn6a$a3d8$1...@dont-email.me>, Hymermut <to...@email.com> on
Mon, 5 Feb 2024 at 13:18:01 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote

Having experienced near drowning, twice, I could not agree less (or
more?). That fight for breath still gives me nightmares.

[Sn!pe]

Ahem A Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> wrote:

> On 5 Feb 2024 15:35:46 GMT
> Tim+ <timdo...@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:
>
> > Consciousness isn't lost instantly when blood flow stops. Quickly yes, but
> > not instantly. I imagine those guillotined saw the approach of the basket
> > as their heads fell. Probably didn't think about it for long though.
>
> Hopefully not long enough to think "Ow my nose!".

<http://www.strangehistory.net/2011/02/06/lavoisier-blinks/>

[Sam Plusnet]

On 05-Feb-24 15:14, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Mon, 5 Feb 2024 14:49:04 -0000 (UTC)
> Richard Robinson <ric...@qualmograph.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> Nicholas D. Richards said:
>
>>> I am told that the French guillotine was a bloody affair.
>>
>> How would cutting major blood-vessels not be ?
>>
> Freeze first.
>

Exsanguinate! Exsanguinate!

(Where's that sink plunger?)

--
Sam Plusnet

[Bernard Peek]

On 2024-02-04, Peter <mys...@prune.org.uk> wrote:

>>
>> Deterrents will never work as most criminals believe they won't get
>> caught.
>
> I wonder if you have that backwards: deterrents work in most cases except
> in the case of those who believe they won't get caught?

The US policy of deterring suicide bombers by threatening to kill them has
not been a huge success.


--
Bernard Peek
b...@shrdlu.com
Wigan

[Bernard Peek]

On 2024-02-04, Abandoned Trolley <fr...@fred-smith.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>> Deterrents will never work as most criminals believe they won't get caught.
>>
>
>

> Regardless of my views on capital punishment, "common sense" tells me
> that it DOES work as a deterrent, insofar as it deters the offender from
> committing any further crime.

Yes. Common-sense works like that.

>
> However, there’s a worrying large number of murders committed by people
> who have already been convicted of murder and then released, having
> served their "life" sentence.

It's rare. Murder is a crime where repeat-offenders are much less common than
for any other type of crime.

[Abandoned Trolley]

>>
>> However, there’s a worrying large number of murders committed by people
>> who have already been convicted of murder and then released, having
>> served their "life" sentence.
>
> It's rare. Murder is a crime where repeat-offenders are much less common than
> for any other type of crime.
>
>

Well "common sense" might suggest that the main reason for that would be
the relatively long sentences given to offenders, leaving them with less
opportunity to commit the crimes.

How many life sentences could you realistically fit in to a life of crime ?

[maus]

depends on what is meant by life sentances, sometimes it only means ten
years. The prison population is mostly poor people. Hang them high!

[Tease'n'Seize]

Bernard Peek wrote:

> Murder is a crime where repeat-offenders are much less common than
> for any other type of crime.

Well yes, if you succeeded in killing the person(s) who pissed you off,
there's no obvious "next victim" ... unless you developed a taste for it.

[Abandoned Trolley]

>
> It's rare. Murder is a crime where repeat-offenders are much less common than
> for any other type of crime.
>

Although another variable in the equation would be the relatively high
conviction rates for murders, which in the normal course of events, will
not get "screened out" by bone idle police officers

[Bernard Peek]

Or you need to cover your tracks.

It's a staple of whodunnits but it appears to be rare outside a few isolated
communities. Notably around St Mary Mede, Midsommer and Denton.

Criminologists should have noticed by now that the statistics point to a
causal relationship. Those areas must each have someone who commits many
murders and frames different innocent people for them. I'm told that there
is a new outbreak developing in parts of Northumberland.

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On 6 Feb 2024 12:17:44 GMT

Never go to those places or accept an invite to stay the night at any
place where Hercule Poirot is on the guest list.

Recently I have been put off visiting Brokenwood, Shetland, Northern
Ireland, Denmark, Saint-Marie, Van der Valks' hometown, and, a couple of
decades (is it that long? ) ago, Mid-Wales. Obv NY is off-limits at all
times.

My SO has been discovering the Spooks at MI5 are a) understaffed b) a
quite sloppy at protecting people.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

[Adrian]

In message <20240206123340.e6cb...@127.0.0.1>,
"Kerr-Mudd, John" <ad...@127.0.0.1> writes

>Never go to those places or accept an invite to stay the night at any
>place where Hercule Poirot is on the guest list.
>

I goove you should be safe these days, I think he closed his shed door
many years ago.

>Recently I have been put off visiting Brokenwood, Shetland, Northern
>Ireland, Denmark, Saint-Marie, Van der Valks' hometown, and, a couple of
>decades (is it that long? ) ago, Mid-Wales. Obv NY is off-limits at all
>times.
>

Mid Whales ?

What of the land of Oxen and fords, not long ago that seemed to be
rather hazardous. Particularly if you were of an academic disposition.


Adrian
--
To Reply :
replace "bulleid" with "adrian" - all mail to bulleid is rejected
Sorry for the rigmarole, If I want spam, I'll go to the shops
Every time someone says "I don't believe in trolls", another one dies.

[Richard Robinson]

Adrian said:
> In message <20240206123340.e6cb...@127.0.0.1>,
> "Kerr-Mudd, John" <ad...@127.0.0.1> writes
>>Never go to those places or accept an invite to stay the night at any
>>place where Hercule Poirot is on the guest list.
>>
>
> I goove you should be safe these days, I think he closed his shed door
> many years ago.

Who dunnit ?

>>Recently I have been put off visiting Brokenwood, Shetland, Northern
>>Ireland, Denmark, Saint-Marie, Van der Valks' hometown, and, a couple of
>>decades (is it that long? ) ago, Mid-Wales. Obv NY is off-limits at all
>>times.
>>
>
> Mid Whales ?
>
> What of the land of Oxen and fords, not long ago that seemed to be
> rather hazardous. Particularly if you were of an academic disposition.
>
>
> Adrian


--

[Abandoned Trolley]

>
>> Recently I have been put off visiting Brokenwood, Shetland, Northern
>> Ireland, Denmark, Saint-Marie, Van der Valks' hometown, and, a couple of
>> decades (is it that long? ) ago, Mid-Wales. Obv NY is off-limits at all
>> times.
>>
>
> Mid Whales ?
>

Hinterland ?

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

That's the series.
Wow, just the 1 decade(ish)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinterland_(TV_series)

[chr...@privacy.net]

It also happened to an elderly member of my family.
Fortunately for everyone but them, they had just stopped to drop someone
off after a (final) pub visit.

Chris

[Nicholas D. Richards]

In article <upt3il$rm7s$1...@dont-email.me>, Abandoned Trolley <fred@fred-
smith.co.uk> on Tue, 6 Feb 2024 at 11:01:41 awoke Nicholas from his
slumbers and wrote
>
>>

The majority of murders appear to be committed by a person well known to
the victim. There is high clear up rate, even for 'bone idle' police
officers.

The minority of murders, so called stranger murders, are not so easily
solved although a hard working unbiased team of officers do have a
reasonable clear up rate.

[Abandoned Trolley]

> The majority of murders appear to be committed by a person well known to
> the victim. There is high clear up rate, even for 'bone idle' police
> officers.
>
> The minority of murders, so called stranger murders, are not so easily
> solved although a hard working unbiased team of officers do have a
> reasonable clear up rate.

So, as I said, a relatively high conviction rate

[Mike Fleming]

I would advise avoiding the dreaming spires of Oxford too. Nightmares,
more like.