That Viglen (a.k.a. Tesco) 8.9" Tablet

[Ivan D. Reid]

Still having trouble with programmes that are tablet unaware --
they expect precise pixel co-ordinates OnMouseClick() but a touch on the
screen apparently returns a fuzzy area. Worse are menus and browsers that
expect the click to be on the actual label text rather than the enclosing
box (a problem with coventional PCs anyway).

PuTTY isn't an answer, it doesn't know when the virtual keybroad
is covering part of the screen, and blithely writes under it.

I found an SSH terminal programme called "Remote Terminal" which
seems to do what it says on the tin, except... I suspect it's a bit
lacking in the modernity states. It can't connect to The Great Firewall
of Brunel, emitting the error, "The operation attempted to access data
outside the valid range". I can connect to CERN, and machines within
TGFoB (but not the gateway machines) when I'm within Brunel.

I did get my WoadFang keybroad to talk to it, but no extensive tests.

Surprisingly no problems registering the MAC at work, and
connecting to the WiFi, but when I got home it had forgotten how to
connect here! Attempts at copying the passkey via a USB stick to a file on
the tablet failed for a long time until My Poor Eyes noticed that a
spurious character had slipped into the text file...

It didn't register as a filesystem when I connected it to my work
PC via a USB cable, but then again it _was_ a Poundland retractable cable.
Nor on my home Mint box, with the supplied cable.

Discovered there wasn't much free disk space. Searching turned up
3+ GB of installation files and 10+ GB in a "Windows.old" directory from
the upgrade it did after I bought it. Disk Cleanup with the "System"
option led to its now having 19 GB free. I also slotted in the 32 GB
microSDHC card from my Nook (my publications archive) as Disk D:. PDFs are
much easier to read on the 8.9" colour screen than on the Nook's small
e-paper screen!

Haven't tried if it will boot from a Linux USB stick with the
supplied USB OtG cable yet; an old mouse did work with it tho'.

--
Ivan Reid, School of Engineering & Design, _____________ CMS Collaboration,
Brunel University. Ivan.Reid@[brunel.ac.uk|cern.ch] Room 40-1-B12, CERN
KotPT -- "for stupidity above and beyond the call of duty".

[Alòhá Fenq]

Ivan D. Reid wrote:

> It didn't register as a filesystem when I connected it to my work
> PC via a USB cable

I wouldn't expect it to really, it's not pretending to be a memory
stick, it would expect memory sticks to be be plugged into it, you might
be able to persuade an old RNDIS (ethernut over USB) driver to do summat.

[Ivan D. Reid]

On Sat, 2 Apr 2016 01:03:19 +0100, Al?h? Fenq <aloha...@txinfo.org>
wrote in <FsqdndjaldWgkWLL...@brightview.co.uk>:

Yeah, too used to the Android world, I guess. I do have an old
USB-to-USB "networking" cable to copy files from one PC to another (pretty
fast too, I've rescued several laptops with it) but that needs the drivers
installed both ends, if I can find them. There's suggestions that using the
OtG cable will work, but I'm not convinced as yet. OtG + USB-to-USB I can
believe.

Pity there's no documentation for this beast; Viglen's website doesn't
even acknowledge that it exists. I may have to speak to our sales rep...

[Alòhá Fenq]

Ivan D. Reid wrote:

> I do have an old USB-to-USB "networking" cable to copy files from one
> PC to another

Maybe you can persuade the FST Wizard to use it? Or just use wiffy ...

[Ivan D. Reid]

On Sat, 2 Apr 2016 05:43:38 +0100, Al?h? Fenq <aloha...@txinfo.org>
wrote in <ttGdnQSXl5Jy0GLL...@brightview.co.uk>:

Well, I plugged it into the tablet with the USBToGo cable and it
came up as a recognised device (I was pretty sure that it had been built
in to recent Windows versions), and on the Mint side it was immediately
recognised as usb0 network! Now the only problem is what software to use
(I'm not familiar with FST Wizard). Plenty of keywords to gwgl on now.

[Brian Gaff]

I did not really expect Viglen to still be in business, assuming this was
the company originally making bbc computer add ons and dodgy pcs back in the
day.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Ivan D. Reid" <Ivan...@ivan.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:slrnnfu6m9.l...@smtp.orangehome.co.uk...

[John Williamson]

On 02/04/2016 11:40, Brian Gaff wrote:
> I did not really expect Viglen to still be in business, assuming this was
> the company originally making bbc computer add ons and dodgy pcs back in the
> day.
> Brian
>

They are still in business, mostly making stuff for others, with a tiny
"Viglen" logo somewhere in the documentation. I was slightly surprised
that Tesco haven't had the BIOS customised, as all their Windows tablets
show the Viglen logo at boot time.

A bit like the way that Acorn turned into ARM, and often, the only way
you will find out that an ARM chip is used is by opening up the device
and reading the chip markings.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Adrian Caspersz]

On 02/04/16 11:40, Brian Gaff wrote:
> I did not really expect Viglen to still be in business, assuming this was
> the company originally making bbc computer add ons and dodgy pcs back in the
> day.

It's Lod Shergar's only remaining IT horse ...

--
Adrian C

[Ivan D. Reid]

On Sat, 2 Apr 2016 16:07:56 +0100, Adrian Caspersz <em...@here.invalid>
wrote in <dma5ib...@mid.individual.net>:

No, it's been bought out by XMA (which we valiantly try not to
pronounce "eczema"). Fortunately for us the people we deal with remain
the same, no idea if that's the same with their retail divisions tho' I
don't see why not.

[brun...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, 2 April 2016 00:54:30 UTC+1, Ivan D. Reid wrote:

> Haven't tried if it will boot from a Linux USB stick with the
> supplied USB OtG cable yet; an old mouse did work with it tho'.

I just ordered one of these. It costs a bit more, and I am probably going to be mildly dissapointed like I was with the phone, but if you believe in FOSS, then you have to give it a chance:
https://store.bq.com/gl/aquaris-m10-hd-ubuntu-edition

Anyway, how can be eccentric if I go round being ordinary all the time?

[brun...@gmail.com]

On Monday, 4 April 2016 17:33:37 UTC+1, brun...@gmail.com wrote:

> Anyway, how can be eccentric if I go round being ordinary all the time?

want
https://store.bq.com/uk/hephestos2

[Tone]

is there a manual with that?

Tone

[brun...@gmail.com]

On Monday, 4 April 2016 23:49:23 UTC+1, Tone wrote:

> > want
> > https://store.bq.com/uk/hephestos2
>
> is there a manual with that?

not an unsensible question. It is a rejbexed RepRap, so there is vast stores of information on t' intertubes about 3d printing in general, but the spec on the web talks not of a manual. The support page links to an assembly guide:
https://it-bqcom15-media.s3.amazonaws.com/prod/resources/manual/QSG_Hephestos-2_web-1452774512.pdf which is multilingual and heavily visual. A touch of the Ikea about it.

The FAQ is another multilingual document, whose principle advice is about connecting the motors the right way round - it is clear what is their biggest problem.

I guvax that 3D printing is very much still a job for tinkerers, not the mindless.

[Alòhá Fenq]

brun...@gmail.com wrote:

> Tone wrote:
>
>>> https://store.bq.com/uk/hephestos2
>>
>> is there a manual with that?
>
> not an unsensible question. It is a rejbexed RepRap

$BIGBUSINESS molishing and selling repraps seems somewhat removed from
the concept of individuals getting repraps and using them to make
repraps for other individuals ...

[brun...@gmail.com]

On Monday, 4 April 2016 23:49:23 UTC+1, Tone wrote:

> is there a manual with that?

there is a video:
http://www.mibqyyo.com/en-videos/2016/02/18/hephestos-2-the-quickest-assembly/#/vanilla/discussion/embed/?vanilla_discussion_id=0

[Tone]

H'mmm. That unforgetted me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtiWQkW0v0o

Tone

[Tone]

On 05/04/2016 09:14, brun...@gmail.com wrote:
> 3d printing

That's cheap.

Tone

[brun...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, 5 April 2016 11:37:14 UTC+1, Tone wrote:

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtiWQkW0v0o

they showed us that at skule

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 11:41:55 +0100
snip...@gmail.com (Sn!pe) wrote:

> I bet it's less than trivial to generate the format(?) instruction
> list(?) whatever to tell the 3DP thingie about what you want it to
> print. I assume that there are templates available on the wibble,
> which would be all very well as long as that item was what you wanted.

You build it in your favourite 3D modelling program and export in
the appropriate format. Then you find out about the limitations of the
process and the things you cannot molish, eg. it's quite easy to draw up
something with a part suspended in mid air (Arthur Dent and the Teacup) and
you can probably get an instruction stream for the 3D printer but the result
won't match the picture.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/

[Richard Robinson]

Sn!pe said:

><brun...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I guvax that 3D printing is very much still a job for tinkerers, not the
>> mindless.
>

> I bet it's less than trivial to generate the format(?) instruction
> list(?) whatever to tell the 3DP thingie about what you want it to
> print. I assume that there are templates available on the wibble,
> which would be all very well as long as that item was what you wanted.

Are there scanners ?


--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://www.qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

[brun...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, 5 April 2016 12:37:34 UTC+1, Richard Robinson wrote:

> Are there scanners ?

of course:
http://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/04/campaigns/ussmb-dell-deals-ena
or the HP 'Sprout':
http://www8.hp.com/uk/en/sprout/home.html


or for the financially well off:
http://cad-scan.co.uk/
http://3dscanners.co.uk/

[Skipweasel]

On Tue, 05 Apr 2016 11:37:48 +0100, Tone wrote:

>> 3d printing
>
> That's cheap.

Wonder if that explains why it comes out with lots of little facets.



--
Skipweasel:- Often irritated, never battered.

[Skipweasel]

On Tue, 05 Apr 2016 06:37:33 -0500, Richard Robinson wrote:

> Are there scanners ?

http://your.asda.com/news-and-blogs/3d-printing-on-tour

[Adrian Caspersz]

On 06/04/16 08:19, Skipweasel wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Apr 2016 06:37:33 -0500, Richard Robinson wrote:
>
>> Are there scanners ?
>
> http://your.asda.com/news-and-blogs/3d-printing-on-tour
>

Voodoo useful, will the material take pins?


--
Adrian C

[Richard Robinson]

Skipweasel said:
> On Tue, 05 Apr 2016 06:37:33 -0500, Richard Robinson wrote:
>
>> Are there scanners ?
>
> http://your.asda.com/news-and-blogs/3d-printing-on-tour

Blimey. I wonder how much one of those costs. Not that I'm aiming to start
playing with such stuff. Yet ...

[Robert Harvey]

Richard Robinson <rich...@privacy.net> wrote:

>> http://your.asda.com/news-and-blogs/3d-printing-on-tour
>
> Blimey. I wonder how much one of those costs.

At 3/4d I'd consider it overpriced. By at least five shillings.

[brun...@gmail.com]

On Monday, 4 April 2016 17:33:37 UTC+1, brun...@gmail.com wrote:

> I just ordered one of these. It costs a bit more, and I am probably going to be mildly dissapointed like I was with the phone, but if you believe in FOSS, then you have to give it a chance:
> https://store.bq.com/gl/aquaris-m10-hd-ubuntu-edition

Yep, it's carp.
You can put a 32g sd card in, but you can't use it. Apps like podbird are given storage by the OS and it only gives thembuilt in storage.

The camera is astonishingly insensitive, taking 3 second time exposures by artificial light and black videos ditto.

The flatterygoes bat just doing nowt. My iPaddon't do that.

The OS is amazing,easy to use, once yu find you find out how to do stuff. I Have the phone so that was easy. There aren't many apps, but it has the basics covered. Many of the apps are molished with a webapps wrapper that just provides an icon thatinvokesa web page in a headless browser. Tho se aren't bad, but some aren't good. I suspect that is how it gets here maps.

Trying too be linuxy and access the command line or a file system is v.tough.

[Robert Harvey]

<brun...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The flatterygoes bat just doing nowt. My iPaddon't do that.

Except that this morn the iPud has done exactly that!

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 01:22:01 -0700 (PDT)
brun...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Monday, 4 April 2016 17:33:37 UTC+1, brun...@gmail.com wrote:
> > I just ordered one of these. It costs a bit more, and I am probably
> > going to be mildly dissapointed like I was with the phone, but if you
> > believe in FOSS, then you have to give it a chance:
> > https://store.bq.com/gl/aquaris-m10-hd-ubuntu-edition
>
> Yep, it's carp.

Sadly this seems to be so.

> You can put a 32g sd card in, but you can't use it. Apps like podbird
> are given storage by the OS and it only gives thembuilt in storage.

Yep.

> The camera is astonishingly insensitive, taking 3 second time exposures
> by artificial light and black videos ditto.

You have a hardware problem - the camera is OK.

> The flatterygoes bat just doing nowt. My iPaddon't do that.

Not seen that either, flattery life seems pretty good.

> The OS is amazing,easy to use, once yu find you find out how to do
> stuff.

One thing that seems to be missing is a way to change the default
text size - firefox for example seems to us a text size in pixels suited
to a much larger display.

Actually the whole OS interface feels very shallow, there are no
details on the wifi connection beyond an IP address, no way to set a static
address if you want one.

> I Have the phone so that was easy. There aren't many apps, but
> it has the basics covered.

There is an annoying lack of a decent sbook reader, but I expect if
it catches on there will be more apps, although it was a little worrying to
discover that fbreader (which is a decent ebook reader) used to be
available for Ubuntu up to version 13 or so and now is not.

> Many of the apps are molished with a webapps
> wrapper that just provides an icon thatinvokesa web page in a headless
> browser. Tho se aren't bad, but some aren't good. I suspect that is how
> it gets here maps.
>
> Trying too be linuxy and access the command line or a file system is
> v.tough.

So it seems, and that's where IMHO it's carp. A portable unix
workstation combined with a usable tablet would be wonderful, sadly this
isn't it. It feels more like an iThingy than anything unixy. I'm seriously
considering looking into how to put android on it, however I did read
somewhere that the OTA 11 update will make it possible to use apt-get and
run real unix applications on it so first I need to find out how to back up
the firmware I have.

[brun...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, 24 April 2016 11:00:01 UTC+1, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

> > The OS is amazing,easy to use, once yu find you find out how to do
> > stuff.
>
> One thing that seems to be missing is a way to change the default
> text size - firefox for example seems to us a text size in pixels suited
> to a much larger display.

OK, I have now connected it up to a bluetooth keyboard and mouse, and it switched to what they call Desktop mode. It isn't really - there is no proper menu, you still need to use the today app as a start menu. But LibreOffice, Gimp, and Firefux make a lot more sense like that, and using an HDMI cable to a proper monitor is a revelation.

/that/ way of doing things is bluddy good, and worth trying out.

Oh, and the Logiteck mouse I have has a button near the scrollwheel (centre mouse button? I thought that was wheelclicking) which pops up the diagonal display of running apps and vies them a little X thing for closing them instead of casting them upwards. It is /great/ with a mouse and keyboard, just great.

But why the desktop mode is not a proper desktop is summat of a mystery, and a lost opportunity to redeem it.

> There is an annoying lack of a decent sbook reader,

and an absence of any NNTP clients at all.

> > Trying too be linuxy and access the command line or a file system is
> > v.tough.
>
> So it seems, and that's where IMHO it's carp. A portable unix
> workstation combined with a usable tablet would be wonderful, sadly this
> isn't it.

There is a file manager among the standard apps, and it appears as though you don't have a user login in /home/<usernam>, it's all /home/phablet. Oh, and the 'home' icon on the left of the mangler does not take you to /home but to /home/phablet, which it displays as just "phablet" on the top line unless you get insistent.

The hamburger menu in the file mangler has an option that says "unlock full access" which requires a passworm. I did not create any such thing, so it must be a predetermined and therefore secret one. Bah! worse than mickeysoft, whose tablet is it?


Then there is file typing. Go to http://www.geograph.org.uk/stamp.php?id=4902909 and set up a watermarked image (in this case the turf maze at Wing, Rutland). right-click on the resultant image and save it, and windows will try to save it as 'stamped.php' based on the url. In the file-save-as dialogue you can change the extension to .jpg and use it later to attach to twitter. This is summat I do all the time.

Now do that in IOS. It gets saved as image.png (they are /all/ called image.png, but who cares). I can then attach that to twitter from IOS.

Now do it in Linux Mint. You get a file-save-as dialogue that allows you to rename it as .jpg and all is well.

Now try it on the Ubuntu M10. Bong. file is called stamped.php and there is no option. Use the file mangler to rename it (I always use 1.jpg) and it becomes 1. Try and click on it and you will get told that there is no application to handle it. I thought that *nix used the file magic system, not file name extensions, to identify mime types. Parrantly not.


Oh, and the GPS is now borked: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/location-service/+bug/1573168

The radio player, or rather both of them, borks from time to time: https://bugs.launchpad.net/uradio/+bug/1568367

Here maps work, or did until the GPS got borked, but you can't create a login: https://bugs.launchpad.net/webapps-core/+bug/1441547 - and there is no way to create one on the here wibble site and then just use the username and passworm in the app.

I can connect a bluetooth keyboard and mouse simultaniously, but not the bluetooth speakers which I was using earlier. It seems to bottom out at two bluetooth devices, which seems to be rather not enough.

[Robert Harvey]

<brun...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Oh, and the Logiteck mouse I have has a button near the scrollwheel

Looked it up. 'Navigation' button. M535.

I /really/ like it,

[Alòhá Fenq]

Robert Harvey wrote:
>> the Logiteck mouse I have has a button near the scrollwheel
> Looked it up. 'Navigation' button. M535.
> I /really/ like it,

So does pushing the scrollywheel do nothing, or is it configurable as a
4th button? I object to accidental "clicks" of the scrollywheel while
scrolling in thunderplum and fireflock opening new tabs or whatever,
sounds like this might help while middle click for other progs where I
do use middle click ...




--
If you did know then, what you know now,
would that help, if everyone else knew what they know now too?

[brun...@gmail.com]

On Monday, 25 April 2016 09:47:25 UTC+1, Alòhá Fenq wrote:
> Robert Harvey wrote:
> >> the Logiteck mouse I have has a button near the scrollwheel
> > Looked it up. 'Navigation' button. M535.
> > I /really/ like it,
>
> So does pushing the scrollywheel do nothing, or is it configurable as a
> 4th button? I object to accidental "clicks" of the scrollywheel while
> scrolling in thunderplum and fireflock opening new tabs or whatever,
> sounds like this might help while middle click for other progs where I
> do use middle click ...

no, the scrollywheel click is still the middle mouse button click. 'navigation' is summat else altogether. It's the 4th button. It's got side-push-click on the scrollywheel too.

I eventually found http://www.logitech.com/en-us/manuals/m535-setup-guide after a bit of buggerance. If you are on windnoz or mac there is a futility to make it do touch screen gestures too, by holding down this nav button while you move it.

[brun...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, 24 April 2016 21:55:33 UTC+1, brun...@gmail.com wrote:

> Here maps work, or did until the GPS got borked, but you can't create a login:
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/webapps-core/+bug/1441547 - and there is no way
> to create one on the here wibble site and then just use the username
> and passworm in the app.

Oh yes there is. I just got a reply from HERE technical support, pointing me to https://account.here.com/sign-in - which I can't find any link to on the here.com wibble. Works too, create a login from a PC, use the login on the tablet/phone. Terrific! Oh, and the bloke from HERE passed my link to the moribund bug report on launchpad to thier tech dept too. Proper customer service, I call that. Replied overnight and put things right.

now if they would only fix the location services....

[brun...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, 24 April 2016 11:00:01 UTC+1, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

> There is an annoying lack of a decent sbook reader, but I expect if
> it catches on there will be more apps, although it was a little worrying to
> discover that fbreader (which is a decent ebook reader) used to be
> available for Ubuntu up to version 13 or so and now is not.

best I've found is Seshat - which is just a wrapper for Kindle. Not a general purpose reader.

You /can/ save gutenberg books as pdfs and read them as pdfs, but it is pretty poor.

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 03:30:45 -0700 (PDT)
brun...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Sunday, 24 April 2016 11:00:01 UTC+1, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>
> > There is an annoying lack of a decent sbook reader, but I
> > expect if it catches on there will be more apps, although it was a
> > little worrying to discover that fbreader (which is a decent ebook
> > reader) used to be available for Ubuntu up to version 13 or so and now
> > is not.
>
> best I've found is Seshat - which is just a wrapper for Kindle. Not a
> general purpose reader.

Yeah I saw that, I have Beru installed and it jbexes but it's far
from great.

> You /can/ save gutenberg books as pdfs and read them as pdfs, but it is
> pretty poor.

I have a large collection of mostly epub so neither Kindle nor PDF
is much use to me.

[brun...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, 24 April 2016 21:55:33 UTC+1, brun...@gmail.com wrote:

> I can connect a bluetooth keyboard and mouse simultaniously, but not
> the bluetooth speakers which I was using earlier.

Mayhap this would have been better:
http://www.tbs-technology.de/shop/index.php?cPath=4
Do you suppose it only uses one bluetooth channel for both keyboard and trackball?

[John Williamson]

On 25/04/2016 12:52, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 03:30:45 -0700 (PDT)
> brun...@gmail.com wrote:
>> You /can/ save gutenberg books as pdfs and read them as pdfs, but it is
>> pretty poor.
>
> I have a large collection of mostly epub so neither Kindle nor PDF
> is much use to me.
>

Calibre can convert just about any ebook format to any other with a good
chance of the result being readable.

Which is why my old Kindle has rather more bwks innit than my Android
reader pogrom can 'andle.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Sam Plusnet]

In article <do76ai...@mid.individual.net>,
johnwil...@btinternet.com says...

Agreed. A few 'undred of my books were in epub format - the majority
were txt.

Calibre transposed them into mobi style without any fuss for use on a
kindle.

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 19:34:57 +0100
John Williamson <johnwil...@btinternet.com> wrote:

> On 25/04/2016 12:52, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> > On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 03:30:45 -0700 (PDT)
> > brun...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> You /can/ save gutenberg books as pdfs and read them as pdfs, but it is
> >> pretty poor.
> >
> > I have a large collection of mostly epub so neither Kindle nor
> > PDF is much use to me.
> >
> Calibre can convert just about any ebook format to any other with a good
> chance of the result being readable.

Yes but epub is a versatile format and PDF is not and I goove the
kindle thing is a webapp so I'm not going there.

> Which is why my old Kindle has rather more bwks innit than my Android
> reader pogrom can 'andle.

Hmm, I saw no limit with fbreader on Android.

[John Williamson]

On 25/04/2016 21:58, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 19:34:57 +0100
> John Williamson <johnwil...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>> On 25/04/2016 12:52, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 03:30:45 -0700 (PDT)
>>> brun...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> You /can/ save gutenberg books as pdfs and read them as pdfs, but it is
>>>> pretty poor.
>>>
>>> I have a large collection of mostly epub so neither Kindle nor
>>> PDF is much use to me.
>>>
>> Calibre can convert just about any ebook format to any other with a good
>> chance of the result being readable.
>
> Yes but epub is a versatile format and PDF is not and I goove the
> kindle thing is a webapp so I'm not going there.
>
>> Which is why my old Kindle has rather more bwks innit than my Android
>> reader pogrom can 'andle.
>
> Hmm, I saw no limit with fbreader on Android.
>

The limit's not the number of books, it's the types. The hardware Kindle
seems to read more types than the Android App. Or maybe I've just not
tried hard enough...

[Richard Robinson]

Ahem A Rivet's Shot said:
>
> Hmm, I saw no limit with fbreader on Android.

IRTA fibreader.

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 22:16:43 +0100

Ah that could well be the case, I've not used the Kindle app.

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 21:40:10 +0100
Znep <E-0C0013...@cleopatra.co.uk> wrote:

> In uk.rec.sheds, (brun...@gmail.com) wrote in
> <c37d0fbf-70ef-4118...@googlegroups.com>::

>
> >
> >You /can/ save gutenberg books as pdfs and read them as pdfs, but it is
> >pretty poor.
>

> Calibre can convert them to .mobi files.

Sure but then nothing that runs under Ubuntu will read them.

[brun...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 06:30:01 UTC+1, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

> Sure but then nothing that runs under Ubuntu will read them.

seen this?
http://askubuntu.com/questions/606305/aquaris-4-5e-which-ebook-reader-works

carp, I tell thee!

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

That's out of date - the option to browse the web mentioned has gone
from Beru.

However browsing through my calibre site with the browser jbexes
just fine for getting bwks into Beru. I expect Beru's library page will get
unhappy or just plain unusable with too many bwks in it thobut.

So far I'm putting it about half way between an iThingy and Android
for usefulness (iThingys are pretty close to useless unless you go
iEverything). The interface is pleasing in one important respect, it has
far less tendency to react badly to falling over while reading in bed than
either Android or IOS.

It seems it is possible to stamp on the app-armor configuration to
release apps from their jails which could be a big help - although the
configuration then needs fixing with every update. Hmm it has cron, I
wonder if it can be turned on.

[brun...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 12:30:01 UTC+1, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> So far I'm putting it about half way between an iThingy and Android
> for usefulness (iThingys are pretty close to useless unless you go
> iEverything). The interface is pleasing in one important respect, it has
> far less tendency to react badly to falling over while reading in bed than
> either Android or IOS.

Yes, and yes. I really want to like it - I have the phone and tried to order the new one today but failed miserably - It has a long way to go to catch up, but it does not have very far to go to be good enough for /me/. Proper podcast handling and an ebuk reader would about do it as far as I am concerned. The radio app called "LocalRadio" is about perfect for my needs, though it is a shame that the FM radio in the phone is not accessible at all.

> It seems it is possible to stamp on the app-armor configuration to
> release apps from their jails which could be a big help - although the
> configuration then needs fixing with every update. Hmm it has cron, I
> wonder if it can be turned on.

yes, but beware. If you start an app from cron, it cold-starts (and hence if you are already listening to a podcast and start podbird it will stop) - they are not re-entrant and do not seem to maintain state from one run to another if they are not left running. Also there is no internal concept of exit, so if you start them from cron you won't be able to stop them except by grabbing the pid and killing them. Also, because of app-armour you won't know where the storage is or be able to add things to it.

[brun...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, 24 April 2016 11:00:01 UTC+1, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

> > The flatterygoes bat just doing nowt. My iPaddon't do that.
>
> Not seen that either, flattery life seems pretty good.

That seems to be the fault of the location service bug.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/location-service/+bug/1573168

the location service does not start properly. It can fail in two ways, apparantly at random, on each power up. It either doesn't start, or it doesn't start and the init process notices and tries to respawn it. If that happens then you get the flashing icon and flattery problems

I have the phone and it has none of these location issues.


I /really/ like HERE maps, by the way

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 07:11:16 -0700 (PDT)
brun...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 12:30:01 UTC+1, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> > So far I'm putting it about half way between an iThingy and Android
> > for usefulness (iThingys are pretty close to useless unless you go
> > iEverything). The interface is pleasing in one important respect, it has
> > far less tendency to react badly to falling over while reading in bed
> > than either Android or IOS.
>
> Yes, and yes. I really want to like it - I have the phone and tried to

Likewise - I have high hopes for OTA-11 due this weak end it
promises to let us install real Linux software. Then all we need is a
shashlik port and we have all the application support we could ask for - of
course that would probably kill native app development stone dead.

> order the new one today but failed miserably - It has a long way to go
> to catch up, but it does not have very far to go to be good enough
> for /me/. Proper podcast handling and an ebuk reader would about do it
> as far as I am concerned. The radio app called "LocalRadio" is about
> perfect for my needs, though it is a shame that the FM radio in the phone
> is not accessible at all.
>
>
> > It seems it is possible to stamp on the app-armor configuration to
> > release apps from their jails which could be a big help - although the
> > configuration then needs fixing with every update. Hmm it has cron, I
> > wonder if it can be turned on.
>
> yes, but beware. If you start an app from cron, it cold-starts (and
> hence if you are already listening to a podcast and start podbird it will
> stop) - they are not re-entrant and do not seem to maintain state from

Not surprising, but I was only thinking of it for automating
keeping any app-armor hackery I indulge in in place and the like not
running the apps.

> one run to another if they are not left running.

I have noticed that - I pointed the music app at my SD card it took
a while and then I foolishly stopped it.

> Also there is no
> internal concept of exit, so if you start them from cron you won't be
> able to stop them except by grabbing the pid and killing them. Also,
> because of app-armour you won't know where the storage is or be able to
> add things to it.

I can read the app-armour config.

[brun...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 16:00:02 UTC+1, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

> I have high hopes for OTA-11 due this weak end

that seems a bit early:
http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-touch-ota-11-preparations-begin-ota-10-launches-today-for-ubuntu-phones-502615.shtml

[brun...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 16:00:02 UTC+1, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

> I have noticed that - I pointed the music app at my SD card it took
> a while and then I foolishly stopped it.

Just the chap, then. I really don't understand this world of online music. What /is/ soundcloud? Is the music app a store?

I have 100GB of music on the PC, some 6,452 files of MP3 and AAC, in 361 folders. Mostly tagged. A lot of it is English Folk, a lot more Classical/Orchestral, and some of it Big Band and Jazz. I pointed itunes/AppleMusicMatch at it and it claimed to "import" it whilst also mangling the heirarchy and making a total dogs breakfast of the naming and categories. Hipsters, it seems, don't realise that "movements" of a symphony are not shufflable songs. Nor that I have 3 different versions of Beethoven's 9th becuase they are /different/.

How annoyed am I going to get with the 'buntu world of music? Am I supposed to copy my (mildy legitimate) audio files into this Soundcloud thing? or what?

Apple wanted me to buy "albums" and "tracks" from them, at silly money. I quite liked WE7 till it got tescofied. After that even though I told it I hated things by Taylor Siwft or Buyonce it still kept playing them two tracks after I told it to stick them up its nefr. Never really understood Spotify after it went legit and stopped being a pirates exchange programme.

I think Amazon are good. You ohl a CD, you get a freee non-drm MP3 too. I'd do that, if they paid any taxes in the UK.

[Alòhá Fenq]

brun...@gmail.com wrote:

> I think Amazon are good. You ohl a CD, you get a freee non-drm MP3
> too. I'd do that, if they paid any taxes in the UK.

They were one of the first to alter their structure (AFAIK it now goes
through a UK subsidiary of their Luxembourg subsidiary) to pay corp tax
"normally", rather than get stung by the diverted profits tax. I think
it's too early yet to find any public accounts filings to show what the
difference has been ...

[Richard Robinson]

brun...@gmail.com said:
> On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 16:00:02 UTC+1, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>
>> I have noticed that - I pointed the music app at my SD card it took a
>> while and then I foolishly stopped it.
>
> Just the chap, then. I really don't understand this world of online
> music. What /is/ soundcloud? Is the music app a store?

I think 'cloud' means "All your data are belong to us", and I say if you
have your own music on your own storage, stick with that, use software
that can play your stuff from your own storage.

> I have 100GB of music on the PC, some 6,452 files of MP3 and AAC, in 361
> folders. Mostly tagged. A lot of it is English Folk, a lot more
> Classical/Orchestral, and some of it Big Band and Jazz. I pointed
> itunes/AppleMusicMatch at it and it claimed to "import" it whilst also
> mangling the heirarchy and making a total dogs breakfast of the naming and
> categories. Hipsters, it seems, don't realise that "movements" of a
> symphony are not shufflable songs. Nor that I have 3 different versions
> of Beethoven's 9th becuase they are /different/.

Yes. Call the symphony an 'album' and include the
conductor/orchestra/year/whatever in its name, then call the movements
'tracks' and tag them in order (or do it with the filenames. Then don't let
anyone shuffle them.

> How annoyed am I going to get with the 'buntu world of music? Am I
> supposed to copy my (mildy legitimate) audio files into this Soundcloud
> thing? or what?

The Ubuntu world includes programs that can play sound files from your own
storage. Investigate. Personally (Debian) Amarok annoys me, but I seem to
end up using it. Also Clementine. And many others, but those are the ones I
keep coming back too.

itunes, I've never looked at.

Most player programs will annoy you by 'importing' your stuff, which in that
context means looking over everything and building indexes; which can be
slow, and therefore irritating if you just want a quick look. Plus, I have
found linux sound support to be a horrible confusing dog's dinner of
different schemes and daemons and clever wrappers, and different programs
expecting different backends, and yuck. But you may be lucky and have it
work (especially if the way you intend to play things hasn't changed since
you installed the OS, I think that's where a lot of my trouble came from)

Which is all not 'online' ...

> Apple wanted me to buy "albums" and "tracks" from them, at silly money. I
> quite liked WE7 till it got tescofied. After that even though I told it I
> hated things by Taylor Siwft or Buyonce it still kept playing them two
> tracks after I told it to stick them up its nefr. Never really
> understood Spotify after it went legit and stopped being a pirates
> exchange programme.

I haven't spent very much time in the world of 'online' music. "Call me
oldfangled, but ..." it seems to me that the more keen that world is on
something, the less it's anything I care about. It All Sounds The Same.
hem hem. Turned into my father, me ? But many of the aforementioned player
progs include options for dealing with stuff elsewhere.

> I think Amazon are good. You ohl a CD, you get a freee non-drm MP3 too.
> I'd do that, if they paid any taxes in the UK.

I bought some MP3s from them once. Turned out to be 56K. Not good enough,
won't do that again. Other people say they got better quality; I say I
didn't have any info as to quality before I'd got them, so bah. If you've
got the CD, rip it yourself, why do you need them trying to insert
themselves in stuff you can do better without them ?

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

Hmm the M10 shipped with OTA-10 and now has OTA-10.1.

I got a May 1st date from here - it could well be wrong.

<http://askubuntu.com/questions/761631/upgrade-bq-aquaris-m10-from-15-04-to-16-04>

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 09:31:52 -0700 (PDT)
brun...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 16:00:02 UTC+1, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>
> > I have noticed that - I pointed the music app at my SD card it took
> > a while and then I foolishly stopped it.
>
>
> Just the chap, then. I really don't understand this world of online
> music.

Probably not - I have a large collection of mp3s but I don't do

online music.

> What /is/ soundcloud?

Hootered if I know - I goove it's some kind of online music store.

> Is the music app a store?

No just a player.

> I have 100GB of music on the PC, some 6,452 files of MP3 and AAC, in 361
> folders. Mostly tagged. A lot of it is English Folk, a lot more
> Classical/Orchestral, and some of it Big Band and Jazz. I pointed
> itunes/AppleMusicMatch at it and it claimed to "import" it whilst also
> mangling the heirarchy and making a total dogs breakfast of the naming
> and categories.

Sounds about par for the course, on Android I use a 'folder' player
so I can ignore all the tag soup there.

> Hipsters, it seems, don't realise that "movements" of a
> symphony are not shufflable songs.

This can be a promble - shuffling some more recent stuff is iffy
too (Ogden's Nutgone Flake becomes really bizarre shuffled, DSOTM is not
much better).

Promble is that there's no concept of unshufflable songs, nor is
there a way to shuffle albums which would be nice. If I can find a command
line player I might port the script I have on my FreeBSD desktop to randomly
play albums (where album is defined as folder containing mp3 files).

> Nor that I have 3 different versions
> of Beethoven's 9th becuase they are /different/.

That too.

> How annoyed am I going to get with the 'buntu world of music? Am I
> supposed to copy my (mildy legitimate) audio files into this Soundcloud
> thing? or what?

You can just copy them onto a micro SD card and point the music
player at the folder you used. It then generates album, artist, genre and
songs lists from the tags. That last is *really* silly there's a huge list
starting 01 followed by a huge list starting 02.

It finds pictures of most of the artists from somewhere for the
artists list but doesn't combine things like "Al Stewart" and "Al stewart"
despite finding the same picture for both.

For Albums there's a page full of "Unknown Album" one by "Unknown
Artist" with a *lot* of tracks. My tagging could be better but my folder
structure is good and I can't use it.

> Apple wanted me to buy "albums" and "tracks" from them, at silly money.

Yep resist at all costs. I goove they come drm locked to a device
which I will not put up with.

> I think Amazon are good. You ohl a CD, you get a freee non-drm MP3 too.

<grumble> They should do you ohl a book you get a free non-drm epub
(or whatever) too.

> I'd do that, if they paid any taxes in the UK.

Takes just a few minutes for abcde to rip a CD into well named
tracks in your choice of mp3, ogg, flac, aac, ape, wavpack, mpp/mp+, tta or
mp2. All my CDs became flac (archive) and mp3 (small enough for phone) long
ago.

[brun...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 18:30:21 UTC+1, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

> Hmm the M10 shipped with OTA-10 and now has OTA-10.1.

Mine shipped with 9.5, and went straight to 10.1 when I updated.


I am warming to it a lot.. On the iPud if I flip out of a browser to pick up summat in the clipboard when I flip back the browser reloads the page & anything I already typed is lost.. In Ubuntu everything stays as I left it.

The cut/paste tool is us better than on the iPud too, though not perfect..

Despite the lack of good appps the design is great.. Biggest annoyance is the over-insistent autocorrect.. I can't type the 4-letter abbreviation for 'application', at all.. it always turns into 'paps.. Always.

[Richard Robinson]

Ahem A Rivet's Shot said:

> brun...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I have 100GB of music on the PC, some 6,452 files of MP3 and AAC, in 361
>> folders. Mostly tagged. A lot of it is English Folk, a lot more
>> Classical/Orchestral, and some of it Big Band and Jazz. I pointed
>> itunes/AppleMusicMatch at it and it claimed to "import" it whilst also
>> mangling the heirarchy and making a total dogs breakfast of the naming
>> and categories.
>
> Sounds about par for the course, on Android I use a 'folder' player
> so I can ignore all the tag soup there.

I like tags. Tedious to fill in, but if you have a lot of stuff it makes it
a lot more searchable[1]. And trying to supply all the relevant info. via
filenames gets tedious too. [1] Given sensible software.

>> Hipsters, it seems, don't realise that "movements" of a
>> symphony are not shufflable songs.
>
> This can be a promble - shuffling some more recent stuff is iffy
> too (Ogden's Nutgone Flake becomes really bizarre shuffled, DSOTM is not
> much better).
>
> Promble is that there's no concept of unshufflable songs, nor is
> there a way to shuffle albums which would be nice.

Kill all hipsters and look for sensible software.

> Takes just a few minutes for abcde to rip a CD into well named
> tracks in your choice of mp3, ogg, flac, aac, ape, wavpack, mpp/mp+, tta or
> mp2. All my CDs became flac (archive) and mp3 (small enough for phone) long
> ago.

Hear hear, except that I only discovered abcde last year. It's more
convenient than raw cdparanoia. Like, it looks after basic tagging.

[Mike Fleming]

In article <zoadndKfD5SVPILK...@brightview.co.uk>,

I recently ohled some CDs from them and downloaded the autorips.
They're all around 250k, but not the same and not 256k so I imagine
they're VBR. As I listen to them on my intercom connected
woadfangfully from my phone while riding my bike (with earplugs in, of
course), I suspect that the minor loss of fidelity isn't something
that will trouble me.

--
Mike Fleming

[Mike Fleming]

In article <20160426185139.3d22...@eircom.net>, Ahem

A Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> writes:

> On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 09:31:52 -0700 (PDT)
> brun...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > What /is/ soundcloud?
>
> Hootered if I know - I goove it's some kind of online music store.

It's somewhere you can upload music for other people to listen to, but
not copyright material. Used by lots of bands to upload their music.

--
Mike Fleming

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 12:00:04 -0700 (PDT)
brun...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 18:30:21 UTC+1, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>
> > Hmm the M10 shipped with OTA-10 and now has OTA-10.1.
>
> Mine shipped with 9.5, and went straight to 10.1 when I updated.

Was yours a pre-order one ? Mine was ordered when they came in.

> Despite the lack of good appps the design is great..

Yes the OS UI is good.

> Biggest annoyance is
> the over-insistent autocorrect.. I can't type the 4-letter abbreviation
> for 'application', at all.. it always turns into 'paps.. Always.

I hate autocorrect.

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 14:12:20 -0500
Richard Robinson <rich...@privacy.net> wrote:

> Ahem A Rivet's Shot said:
> > brun...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >> I have 100GB of music on the PC, some 6,452 files of MP3 and AAC, in
> >> 361 folders. Mostly tagged. A lot of it is English Folk, a lot more
> >> Classical/Orchestral, and some of it Big Band and Jazz. I pointed
> >> itunes/AppleMusicMatch at it and it claimed to "import" it whilst also
> >> mangling the heirarchy and making a total dogs breakfast of the naming
> >> and categories.
> >
> > Sounds about par for the course, on Android I use a 'folder'
> > player so I can ignore all the tag soup there.
>
> I like tags. Tedious to fill in, but if you have a lot of stuff it makes
> it a lot more searchable[1]. And trying to supply all the relevant info.
> via filenames gets tedious too. [1] Given sensible software.

Oh I have tags too, but they're not as consistent as the directory
structure (simple artist/album/track). Bit by bit it gets better when I
have spare tuits.

> >> Hipsters, it seems, don't realise that "movements" of a
> >> symphony are not shufflable songs.
> >
> > This can be a promble - shuffling some more recent stuff is iffy
> > too (Ogden's Nutgone Flake becomes really bizarre shuffled, DSOTM is not
> > much better).
> >
> > Promble is that there's no concept of unshufflable songs, nor is
> > there a way to shuffle albums which would be nice.
>
> Kill all hipsters and look for sensible software.

It may well be necessary to write it.

[Richard Robinson]

Well, if you've got the CD it doesn't have to. Trouble was, I only wanted
digital so I thought I could dispense with the superfluous plastic, expecting
similar quality.

[Richard Robinson]

Ahem A Rivet's Shot said:
> Richard Robinson <rich...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot said:
>> > brun...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >
>> >> I have 100GB of music on the PC, some 6,452 files of MP3 and AAC, in
>> >> 361 folders. Mostly tagged. A lot of it is English Folk, a lot more
>> >> Classical/Orchestral, and some of it Big Band and Jazz. I pointed
>> >> itunes/AppleMusicMatch at it and it claimed to "import" it whilst also
>> >> mangling the heirarchy and making a total dogs breakfast of the naming
>> >> and categories.
>> >
>> > Sounds about par for the course, on Android I use a 'folder'
>> > player so I can ignore all the tag soup there.
>>
>> I like tags. Tedious to fill in, but if you have a lot of stuff it makes
>> it a lot more searchable[1]. And trying to supply all the relevant info.
>> via filenames gets tedious too. [1] Given sensible software.
>
> Oh I have tags too, but they're not as consistent as the directory
> structure (simple artist/album/track). Bit by bit it gets better when I
> have spare tuits.

Likewise. It either takes a long time or gts scarily obsessive.

>> >> Hipsters, it seems, don't realise that "movements" of a
>> >> symphony are not shufflable songs.
>> >
>> > This can be a promble - shuffling some more recent stuff is iffy
>> > too (Ogden's Nutgone Flake becomes really bizarre shuffled, DSOTM is not
>> > much better).
>> >
>> > Promble is that there's no concept of unshufflable songs, nor is
>> > there a way to shuffle albums which would be nice.
>>
>> Kill all hipsters and look for sensible software.
>
> It may well be necessary to write it.

We're talking Android ? There is stuff in Ubuntu that I, at least, find
usable.

Thobut, I do get tempted. One thing is - I do 'random play' from time to
time, and something comes up that makes me want to go on and hear the rest
of that album; I've never seen a player that had a button for that.

Do it as a web-server, generate playlists on the fly, it wouldn't be that
hard ...

[Robert Harvey]

Mike Fleming <{mike}@tauzero.co.uk> wrote:

>>> I think Amazon are good. You ohl a CD, you get a freee non-drm MP3 too.
>>> I'd do that, if they paid any taxes in the UK.
>>
>> I bought some MP3s from them once. Turned out to be 56K. Not good enough,

>> won't do that again. ...

>
> I recently ohled some CDs from them and downloaded the autorips.
> They're all around 250k, but not the same and not 256k so I imagine

> they're VBR. ...


I guvax that the rights owners (rarely the musicians) decide what the level
of fidelity will be.

[Robert Harvey]

Mike Fleming <{mike}@tauzero.co.uk> wrote:

>>> What /is/ soundcloud?
>>
>> Hootered if I know - I goove it's some kind of online music store.
>
> It's somewhere you can upload music for other people to listen to, but
> not copyright material. Used by lots of bands to upload their music.

Ah. Unlikely to contain much to interest me then. Not fond of noisy
adolescents.

[Robert Harvey]

Ahem A Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> wrote:

>> Biggest annoyance is
>> the over-insistent autocorrect.

> I hate autocorrect.


I am surprised that did not come out with 'hat' or 'heart'....

[Robert Harvey]

Richard Robinson <rich...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
> We're talking Android ? There is stuff in Ubuntu that I, at least, find
> usable.

I have been using both songbird and nightingale on t' desktop. Not seen
either in green-robot-land, nor yet any in the Ubuntu-store. I used
Amarock for several years until they improved it so much I couldn't bear
it.

[Tone]

Useful for me. Singers who have not made it into CDs upload there quite
a lot, and when they appear in North Yorks in the flesh I can find
tracks to use on the folk show to advertise their gigs.

Those that do make it to CDs are usually found on Spotify and ripped
using Audacity for the same purpose.

Copyright is covered by our station's blanket (not blanket) PRS and PPL
cover.

I also get sent loads of CDs from hopefuls, but unless they are
appearing in North Yorks they have to be very very good to be included
in the show. Unlike Mike Harding's* mine is a regional show.

*Now online at http://www.mikehardingfolkshow.com/

I've never tuned to BBC's Folk on 2 since they outed Mike in favour of
that stuttering bloke with the funny handshake who knows naff all about
folk music.

Masonic Pillocks, they are, the Beeb!

Tone

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 16:31:08 -0500

Richard Robinson <rich...@privacy.net> wrote:

> Ahem A Rivet's Shot said:
> > Richard Robinson <rich...@privacy.net> wrote:
> >> Ahem A Rivet's Shot said:

> >> > Promble is that there's no concept of unshufflable songs,
> >> > nor is there a way to shuffle albums which would be nice.
> >>
> >> Kill all hipsters and look for sensible software.
> >
> > It may well be necessary to write it.
>
> We're talking Android ? There is stuff in Ubuntu that I, at least, find
> usable.

In the apt repository I presume because there's hooter all in the
app store.

> Thobut, I do get tempted. One thing is - I do 'random play' from time to
> time, and something comes up that makes me want to go on and hear the rest
> of that album; I've never seen a player that had a button for that.

That would be nice along with play albums at random.

> Do it as a web-server, generate playlists on the fly, it wouldn't be that
> hard ...

I'd be more inclined to do it as a python or perl program using a
command line player, perhaps web interfaced.

[Richard Bos]

If it's free, and knowing how many un-arrived folk (&c) bands there are,
I suspect it's more likely that it _does_ contain quite a bit to
interest anyone, the real problem is going to find it among all the
noisy adolescents. Unless, like ArTone, you already know what you should
be looking out for.

Richard

[Tone]

Yes, that's about it. I never go inn random, or listen to what it
thrusts at me.

Usually the artist has a website with links to their jbex on Soundcloud
or YouTube. But it is surprising what has been uploaded from vinyl daze
on to Spotify. That can be very time absorbing!

Tone

[Richard Robinson]

Ahem A Rivet's Shot said:
> Richard Robinson <rich...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot said:
>> > Richard Robinson <rich...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> >> Ahem A Rivet's Shot said:
>
>> >> > Promble is that there's no concept of unshufflable songs,
>> >> > nor is there a way to shuffle albums which would be nice.
>> >>
>> >> Kill all hipsters and look for sensible software.
>> >
>> > It may well be necessary to write it.
>>
>> We're talking Android ? There is stuff in Ubuntu that I, at least, find
>> usable.
>
> In the apt repository I presume because there's hooter all in the
> app store.

Yes, I meant raw oldfangled Ubuntu, via apt-get.

I played with Android last year. My interest lasted up to the point where I
ws ready to ohl an app (play music out via USB; it would have been the 1st
software I'd paid for since 1994). Sadly, google told me I was a security
risk and refused to sell it to me. So hooter that.

>> Thobut, I do get tempted. One thing is - I do 'random play' from time to
>> time, and something comes up that makes me want to go on and hear the rest
>> of that album; I've never seen a player that had a button for that.
>
> That would be nice along with play albums at random.

I think Amarok will do that ?

>> Do it as a web-server, generate playlists on the fly, it wouldn't be that
>> hard ...
>
> I'd be more inclined to do it as a python or perl program using a
> command line player, perhaps web interfaced.

Well, it would be a script-inna-pogromming-language behind the server,
wouldn't it ? Perl unless I fancied the excuse to learn python.

[Richard Robinson]

Huge said:

> On 2016-04-26, Richard Robinson <rich...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> brun...@gmail.com said:
>>> On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 16:00:02 UTC+1, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have noticed that - I pointed the music app at my SD card it took a
>>>> while and then I foolishly stopped it.
>>>
>>> Just the chap, then. I really don't understand this world of online
>>> music. What /is/ soundcloud? Is the music app a store?
>>
>> I think 'cloud' means "All your data are belong to us",
>

> Yep.

>
>> and I say if you
>> have your own music on your own storage, stick with that,
>

> Never mind music - everything. Store nothing "in the cloud" that you can't
> afford to lose or have stolen.

Indeed. I /have/ turned off port 25 in favour of an external popbox, but
that's all.

I suppose there are advantages if you do a lot of mobile stuff, use several
different machines, and want access to Everything from Everywhere.

I watched somebody writing an email once, in what he said was the easy
obvious way. Every time he saved the draft it went across the net onto
google storage ... gave me the horrors. But when I asked why, he dismissed
me as an ignorant geek who Doesn't Get It, and went on to lecture me about
how email is really useful and what a stupid luddite i am for refusing to
use it. email = gmail, nothing else exists. Never mind, it's not my problem.

[Richard Robinson]

Tone said:
> On 27/04/2016 11:42, Richard Bos wrote:
>> Robert Harvey <no_e...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> Mike Fleming <{mike}@tauzero.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> What /is/ soundcloud?
>>>>>
>>>>> Hootered if I know - I goove it's some kind of online music store.
>>>>
>>>> It's somewhere you can upload music for other people to listen to, but
>>>> not copyright material. Used by lots of bands to upload their music.
>>>
>>> Ah. Unlikely to contain much to interest me then. Not fond of noisy
>>> adolescents.
>>
>> If it's free, and knowing how many un-arrived folk (&c) bands there are,
>> I suspect it's more likely that it _does_ contain quite a bit to
>> interest anyone, the real problem is going to find it among all the
>> noisy adolescents. Unless, like ArTone, you already know what you should
>> be looking out for.
>

> Yes, that's about it. I never go inn random, or listen to what it
> thrusts at me.
>
> Usually the artist has a website with links to their jbex on Soundcloud
> or YouTube. But it is surprising what has been uploaded from vinyl daze
> on to Spotify. That can be very time absorbing!

If you want to lose time listening to stuff, don't dismiss youtube either.

[Richard Robinson]

Huge said:
> On 2016-04-27, Richard Robinson <rich...@privacy.net> wrote:

>> Huge said:
>>>
>>> Never mind music - everything. Store nothing "in the cloud" that you can't
>>> afford to lose or have stolen.
>>
>> Indeed. I /have/ turned off port 25 in favour of an external popbox, but
>> that's all.
>>
>> I suppose there are advantages if you do a lot of mobile stuff, use several
>> different machines, and want access to Everything from Everywhere.
>>
>> I watched somebody writing an email once, in what he said was the easy
>> obvious way. Every time he saved the draft it went across the net onto
>> google storage ... gave me the horrors. But when I asked why, he dismissed
>> me as an ignorant geek who Doesn't Get It, and went on to lecture me about
>> how email is really useful and what a stupid luddite i am for refusing to
>> use it. email = gmail, nothing else exists. Never mind, it's not my problem.
>

> For most people "the Internet" is their web browser.

And that's a proprietary walled garden. Even when they're doing email.

*shrug* which is how web-browsers got to sit in front of everything else in
the first place. I just don't like to see the ways people are having their
vision restricted for commercial purposes, it seems a waste.

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 08:25:29 -0500
Richard Robinson <rich...@privacy.net> wrote:

> Huge said:
> > On 2016-04-26, Richard Robinson <rich...@privacy.net> wrote:
> >> brun...@gmail.com said:
> >>> On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 16:00:02 UTC+1, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I have noticed that - I pointed the music app at my SD card it took a
> >>>> while and then I foolishly stopped it.
> >>>
> >>> Just the chap, then. I really don't understand this world of online
> >>> music. What /is/ soundcloud? Is the music app a store?
> >>
> >> I think 'cloud' means "All your data are belong to us",
> >
> > Yep.
> >
> >> and I say if you
> >> have your own music on your own storage, stick with that,
> >
> > Never mind music - everything. Store nothing "in the cloud" that you
> > can't afford to lose or have stolen.
>
> Indeed. I /have/ turned off port 25 in favour of an external popbox, but
> that's all.

That's more than I've done - port 25 feeds an IMAP server that
can only be reached from the LAN by way of sendmail, spamassasin and
procmail. The only service I outsource is public DNS - I get that bundled
with my domain registration.

> I suppose there are advantages if you do a lot of mobile stuff, use
> several different machines, and want access to Everything from Everywhere.

VPN solves that for me.

[Richard Robinson]

Ahem A Rivet's Shot said:
> Richard Robinson <rich...@privacy.net> wrote:
>

>> Indeed. I /have/ turned off port 25 in favour of an external popbox, but
>> that's all.
>
> That's more than I've done - port 25 feeds an IMAP server that
> can only be reached from the LAN by way of sendmail, spamassasin and
> procmail. The only service I outsource is public DNS - I get that bundled
> with my domain registration.

Ah. I'd forgotten that. Or more not quite noticed it in the first place,
never having run dns on my own chamine.

Or maybe because there's not a lot of point keeping my dns stuff private.

I turned off port 25 because it was the only one I had open to incoming, so
that let me keep it simple by blocking everything. Having done that, if I
didn't want anything on the net to have any sort of access to anything of
me, /etc/hosts would be plenty.

>> I suppose there are advantages if you do a lot of mobile stuff, use
>> several different machines, and want access to Everything from Everywhere.
>
> VPN solves that for me.

And leaving your machines switched on ? I tend to like to turn things off if
I'm out, eg, overnight.

[Tone]

On 27/04/2016 14:34, Richard Robinson wrote:
> Tone said:
>> On 27/04/2016 11:42, Richard Bos wrote:
>>> Robert Harvey <no_e...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> Mike Fleming <{mike}@tauzero.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> What /is/ soundcloud?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hootered if I know - I goove it's some kind of online music store.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's somewhere you can upload music for other people to listen to, but
>>>>> not copyright material. Used by lots of bands to upload their music.
>>>>
>>>> Ah. Unlikely to contain much to interest me then. Not fond of noisy
>>>> adolescents.
>>>
>>> If it's free, and knowing how many un-arrived folk (&c) bands there are,
>>> I suspect it's more likely that it _does_ contain quite a bit to
>>> interest anyone, the real problem is going to find it among all the
>>> noisy adolescents. Unless, like ArTone, you already know what you should
>>> be looking out for.
>>
>> Yes, that's about it. I never go inn random, or listen to what it
>> thrusts at me.
>>
>> Usually the artist has a website with links to their jbex on Soundcloud
>> or YouTube. But it is surprising what has been uploaded from vinyl daze
>> on to Spotify. That can be very time absorbing!
>
> If you want to lose time listening to stuff, don't dismiss youtube either.
>
>

Um..... did I not mench YouTube?

Tone

[Richard Robinson]

Um ... I just thought another one wouldn't go amiss. ahem.

[Colonel Edmund J. Burke]

On 4/1/2016 4:51 PM, Ivan D. Reid wrote:
> Still having trouble with programmes that are tablet unaware --


Yer still having problems spelling *programs* properly, you dolt.
LOL

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 12:00:04 -0700 (PDT)
brun...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 18:30:21 UTC+1, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>
> > Hmm the M10 shipped with OTA-10 and now has OTA-10.1.
>
> Mine shipped with 9.5, and went straight to 10.1 when I updated.

I did an apt search . and was seriously underwhelmed, there's
hooter all even under apt. So I've tossed Ubuntu for now and flashed it to
Android. It's a nice Android tablet, smooth and fast.

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 11:05:41 -0500
Richard Robinson <rich...@privacy.net> wrote:

> Ahem A Rivet's Shot said:
> > Richard Robinson <rich...@privacy.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Indeed. I /have/ turned off port 25 in favour of an external popbox,
> >> but that's all.
> >
> > That's more than I've done - port 25 feeds an IMAP server that
> > can only be reached from the LAN by way of sendmail, spamassasin and
> > procmail. The only service I outsource is public DNS - I get that
> > bundled with my domain registration.
>
> Ah. I'd forgotten that. Or more not quite noticed it in the first place,
> never having run dns on my own chamine.
>
> Or maybe because there's not a lot of point keeping my dns stuff private.
>
> I turned off port 25 because it was the only one I had open to incoming,
> so that let me keep it simple by blocking everything. Having done that,
> if I didn't want anything on the net to have any sort of access to
> anything of me, /etc/hosts would be plenty.
>
> >> I suppose there are advantages if you do a lot of mobile stuff, use
> >> several different machines, and want access to Everything from
> >> Everywhere.
> >
> > VPN solves that for me.
>
> And leaving your machines switched on ? I tend to like to turn things off
> if I'm out, eg, overnight.

Several of my machines are on 24/7, the router, the NAS, the
services box (that Pi I mentioned elsewhere) as well as the switches, WLAN
bridges, ATA (it's in one of the WLAN bridges) and DOCSIS modem. My
workstation TAAAW unless I'm going away for a while. It's not as bad as it
sounds, apart from the Pi they're all atom based chamines so they don't eat
much power.

[Richard Robinson]

Ahem A Rivet's Shot said:
> Richard Robinson <rich...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> And leaving your machines switched on ? I tend to like to turn things off
>> if I'm out, eg, overnight.
>
> Several of my machines are on 24/7, the router, the NAS, the
> services box (that Pi I mentioned elsewhere) as well as the switches, WLAN
> bridges, ATA (it's in one of the WLAN bridges) and DOCSIS modem. My
> workstation TAAAW unless I'm going away for a while. It's not as bad as it
> sounds, apart from the Pi they're all atom based chamines so they don't eat
> much power.

My ADSL/routers stay switched on, the FM specifically warning that doing
otherwise degrades performance. But my main chamine still has Moving Parts.

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 13:11:21 -0500
Richard Robinson <rich...@privacy.net> wrote:

> Ahem A Rivet's Shot said:
> > Richard Robinson <rich...@privacy.net> wrote:
> >
> >> And leaving your machines switched on ? I tend to like to turn things
> >> off if I'm out, eg, overnight.
> >
> > Several of my machines are on 24/7, the router, the NAS, the
> > services box (that Pi I mentioned elsewhere) as well as the switches,
> > WLAN bridges, ATA (it's in one of the WLAN bridges) and DOCSIS modem. My
> > workstation TAAAW unless I'm going away for a while. It's not as bad as
> > it sounds, apart from the Pi they're all atom based chamines so they
> > don't eat much power.
>
> My ADSL/routers stay switched on, the FM specifically warning that doing
> otherwise degrades performance. But my main chamine still has Moving
> Parts.

So do most of mine, but even the big discs in the NAS only take a
few watts apiece to keep spinning.

[Richard Robinson]

Ahem A Rivet's Shot said:
> Richard Robinson <rich...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot said:
>> > Richard Robinson <rich...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> And leaving your machines switched on ? I tend to like to turn things
>> >> off if I'm out, eg, overnight.
>> >
>> > Several of my machines are on 24/7, the router, the NAS, the
>> > services box (that Pi I mentioned elsewhere) as well as the switches,
>> > WLAN bridges, ATA (it's in one of the WLAN bridges) and DOCSIS modem. My
>> > workstation TAAAW unless I'm going away for a while. It's not as bad as
>> > it sounds, apart from the Pi they're all atom based chamines so they
>> > don't eat much power.
>>
>> My ADSL/routers stay switched on, the FM specifically warning that doing
>> otherwise degrades performance. But my main chamine still has Moving
>> Parts.
>
> So do most of mine, but even the big discs in the NAS only take a
> few watts apiece to keep spinning.

More a paranoid suspicion that if they were to start making horrible
graunching noises I'd rather know about it in less than a many of hours or
days.

It's a long time since it's happened, but still.

[Bernard Peek]

On 2016-04-27, Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> On 2016-04-26, Richard Robinson <rich...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> brun...@gmail.com said:
>>> On Tuesday, 26 April 2016 16:00:02 UTC+1, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have noticed that - I pointed the music app at my SD card it took a
>>>> while and then I foolishly stopped it.
>>>
>>> Just the chap, then. I really don't understand this world of online
>>> music. What /is/ soundcloud? Is the music app a store?
>>
>> I think 'cloud' means "All your data are belong to us",
>
> Yep.
>
>> and I say if you
>> have your own music on your own storage, stick with that,
>
> Never mind music - everything. Store nothing "in the cloud" that you can't
> afford to lose or have stolen.

s/in the cloud/in one place/

Typically data in a cloud service is held on at least three spindles in at
least two data centres. That's going to be safer than most people's strategy
of keepin the only video of their children's first steps on their laptop.
Cloud is far from perfect but for most people it's safer than keeping data
on their own machine.



--
Bernard Peek
b...@shrdlu.com

[Bernard Peek]

On 2016-04-26, Tone <To...@gnospam.com> wrote:
>
> I also get sent loads of CDs from hopefuls, but unless they are
> appearing in North Yorks they have to be very very good to be included
> in the show. Unlike Mike Harding's* mine is a regional show.
>
> *Now online at http://www.mikehardingfolkshow.com/
>
> I've never tuned to BBC's Folk on 2 since they outed Mike in favour of
> that stuttering bloke with the funny handshake who knows naff all about
> folk music.

There are better programs on regional radio. Folkscene is on Radio
Merseyside and Celtic Heartbeat is on Radio Wales. Both are on iPlayer.



--
Bernard Peek
b...@shrdlu.com

[brun...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, 27 April 2016 19:00:01 UTC+1, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

> I did an apt search . and was seriously underwhelmed, there's
> hooter all even under apt. So I've tossed Ubuntu for now and flashed it to
> Android. It's a nice Android tablet, smooth and fast.

Guava you could have bought it like thy cheper

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 14:20:50 -0500

Richard Robinson <rich...@privacy.net> wrote:

> Ahem A Rivet's Shot said:
> > Richard Robinson <rich...@privacy.net> wrote:
> >> Ahem A Rivet's Shot said:
> >> > Richard Robinson <rich...@privacy.net> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> And leaving your machines switched on ? I tend to like to turn
> >> >> things off if I'm out, eg, overnight.
> >> >
> >> > Several of my machines are on 24/7, the router, the NAS, the
> >> > services box (that Pi I mentioned elsewhere) as well as the switches,
> >> > WLAN bridges, ATA (it's in one of the WLAN bridges) and DOCSIS
> >> > modem. My workstation TAAAW unless I'm going away for a while. It's
> >> > not as bad as it sounds, apart from the Pi they're all atom based
> >> > chamines so they don't eat much power.
> >>
> >> My ADSL/routers stay switched on, the FM specifically warning that
> >> doing otherwise degrades performance. But my main chamine still has
> >> Moving Parts.
> >
> > So do most of mine, but even the big discs in the NAS only take
> > a few watts apiece to keep spinning.
>
> More a paranoid suspicion that if they were to start making horrible
> graunching noises I'd rather know about it in less than a many of hours or
> days.

Ah well that would be why they're in a RAIDZ2 (similar to RAID6
without the write hole bug) - two drives have to fail before the array
loses data. Once upon a time I had a simple two way mirror, when one drive
failed inside the warranty and I had two weeks to wait for the replacement
I went for two drive redundancy really quite quickly.

I've also long been of the belief that drives last longer if
they're not power cycled too often, it's not often that the bearings go.

> It's a long time since it's happened, but still.

Data that matters is never on only one drive, that's my golden rule
for keeping data safe from hardware failure. Noting that this implies that
it is usually on at least three.

[John Williamson]

Yeah, I've had to recover quite a bit of data over the years for people
who don't back up. Such as the cow orker who managed to delete the
entire contents of the 32 Gig SD card in his dashcam, which contained
the only copy of a video of an incident an insurance company were
interested in.

As far as unauthorised access goes, though, I like to keep my data on my
own spindles, TYVM. Call me old fashioned, but I don't trust any SFP
cloud service to keep my data 100% secure.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

There was almost nothing in it when I ohled mine - it boiled down
to not getting a choice about ohling the cover, and I can still download
and flash Ubuntu on it any time I feel inclined (BTW a view source on the
download screen that asks for a serial number is interesting).

Hmm, just went to check the current prices and it seems they're not
fryyvat Android ones at all now.

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 22:32:48 +0100
John Williamson <johnwil...@btinternet.com> wrote:

> As far as unauthorised access goes, though, I like to keep my data on my
> own spindles, TYVM. Call me old fashioned, but I don't trust any SFP
> cloud service to keep my data 100% secure.

Sing it loud, among other things I don't trust them not to go itst
up without notice. I have seen arrangements that are essentially RAIDs of
cloud providers but that has to be horribly slow, which is another reason I
like to keep my data local - transfer rates to/from my NAS are sometimes
limited by the gigabit ethernet (I must get round to setting up LACP again).

[Alòhá Fenq]

John Williamson wrote:

> Call me old fashioned, but I don't trust any SFP
> cloud service to keep my data 100% secure.

I regard teh cloud stores as OK for an FTP substitute for exchanging
files with people or for storing offsite copies of encrypted backups.

I do wish I had time to lwk at owncloud though ...

[Alòhá Fenq]

Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

> transfer rates to/from my NAS are sometimes limited by the gigabit
> ethernet (I must get round to setting up LACP again).

$CUSTARDs who have SAN storage with 20Gbps beanwidth to the arrays and
2Gbps to the core switches per swerver seem no less keen to move things
to the wibble knowing they have a total of 40Mbps external beanwidth ...

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

... about the throughput of a single drive in a PC circa 1990.

[Richard Bos]

Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:

> On 2016-04-27, Richard Robinson <rich...@privacy.net> wrote:

> > I watched somebody writing an email once, in what he said was the easy
> > obvious way. Every time he saved the draft it went across the net onto
> > google storage ... gave me the horrors. But when I asked why, he dismissed
> > me as an ignorant geek who Doesn't Get It, and went on to lecture me about
> > how email is really useful and what a stupid luddite i am for refusing to
> > use it. email = gmail, nothing else exists. Never mind, it's not my problem.
>

> For most people "the Internet" is their web browser.

You're so last decade: for most people today, "the Internet" is Google
and subsidiaries, unless it's a Microsoft or Apple subcontractor.

Richard

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

I've seen people who distinguish the two because there's a web
button and a google button on their phones - I was recently asked by
someone borrowing my tablet "Where's Google on this ?" I pointed to the
browser icon and they looked confused.

[brun...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, 28 April 2016 06:14:15 UTC+1, Alòhá Fenq wrote:

> $CUSTARDs who have SAN storage with 20Gbps beanwidth to the arrays and
> 2Gbps to the core switches per swerver seem no less keen to move things
> to the wibble knowing they have a total of 40Mbps external beanwidth ...

grin.

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On 28 Apr 2016 10:42:32 GMT
Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:

> The management might be keen, I'd wager the geeks keep pointing out
> the disadvantages and being ignored.
>
> And when it all goes wrong, it'll be the geeks that get blamed.

It certainly won't be the nefrwipes^Wconsultants^Wsalesdroids who
conned them into it.

[Richard Robinson]

Znep said:
> In uk.rec.sheds, (Ahem A Rivet's Shot) wrote in
><20160427221200.c8c4...@eircom.net>::

>
>> I've also long been of the belief that drives last longer if
>>they're not power cycled too often, it's not often that the bearings go.
>

> Something like 90% of disk fails are on startup or shutdown.

Are there any statistics on how long people leave disks running for ?

I mean, if everybdy left everything running for ever that number would go to
zero ...