Politics - not really

[Sam Plusnet]

The vote count is currently underway in two bye-elections.

Can I say how happy I am that (as far as I know), no-one is shouting
about "rigged elections" and threatening the election workers?

UK democracy is far from perfect, but we haven't sunk _that_ far.

--
Sam Plusnet

[Hymermut]

On 16/02/2024 01:05, Sam Plusnet wrote:

> UK democracy is far from perfect, but we haven't sunk _that_ far.

Actually I think we have already, with the TV & newspaper media
obviously already giving bias towards the tories, screaming about
antisemitism in the Labour party yet again when they haven't fulfilled
any of their own pledges at all, at all, and they ignore antisemitism in
their own ranks. They brought us into recession because their stinking
rich have creamed off the profits from covid and brought about Brexit to
protect their off-shore wealth.

They have got much, much richer whilst the rest of us have got much
poorer, which is exactly where they want us, of course. It is as it
always was. The rich land owners and the serfs.

In honest, there is enough wealth in our economy to make everyone
comfortable. But, most of it is in the coffers of a very small minority.
The early Quaker industrialists showed the way. Use your wealth to look
after your work force, first and foremost.

I currently live in sheltered accommodation from The Joseph Rowntree
Housing Trust, over a hundred years after he started that fund. I am so
grateful to him. He wasn't a tory.

Our government has exhibited so much blatant corruption over the last 14
years or so that most folks won't be fooled, hopefully.

However, IMO Keir Starmer is a closet tory anyway, so God help us.

I crave honesty in politics, but was it ever there at all, at all?

It might have been with Jeremy, but where did that get us?

Tone

[D]

There's been plenty of proof about rigged elections in the US if you stray
a bit outside the socialist mainstream media. So that is beyond dispute.

What's more interesting though, is if there was enough cheating to
actually matter in the end. I lean towards a "no".

But wherever hundreds of millions of people vote, there will always be
cheating when billions of dollars and "all the power and glory" is
involved. To think otherwise is naive.

[Richard Robinson]

We use posher words, like "redefining constituency boundaries" and
"gerrymandering".

But, yes. Less of that is preferrable to more of it.


--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

[Sn!pe]

Hymermut <to...@email.com> wrote:

[...]

> I crave honesty in politics, but was it ever there at all, at all?
>
> It might have been with Jeremy, but where did that get us?

Hunt?
Hardy??
Clarkson???
Beadle !!!1!

--
^Ï^. Sn!pe, PA, FIBS - Professional Crastinator

My pet rock Gordon just is.

[Peter]

snip...@gmail.com (Sn!pe) wrote in news:1qp10vj.1h6l26xrpt6rqN%snipeco.2
@gmail.com:

> Hymermut <to...@email.com> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> I crave honesty in politics, but was it ever there at all, at all?
>>
>> It might have been with Jeremy, but where did that get us?
>
> Hunt?
> Hardy??
> Clarkson???
> Beadle !!!1!

Fisher


--
Peter
-----

[maus]

Because in the UK, nobody gives a damn. Starmer is a Conservative.
Dangerous time.

grey...@mail.com
Is There not even one Influencer here to torment?

[maus]

On 2024-02-16, Hymermut <to...@email.com> wrote:
> On 16/02/2024 01:05, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>
>> UK democracy is far from perfect, but we haven't sunk _that_ far.
>
>

> I crave honesty in politics, but was it ever there at all, at all?
>
> It might have been with Jeremy, but where did that get us?

Yes, the Uk was far gayer place :)
>
> Tone


--

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On 16 Feb 2024 15:48:28 GMT

maus <ma...@deb2.org> wrote:

> On 2024-02-16, Hymermut <to...@email.com> wrote:
> > On 16/02/2024 01:05, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> >
> > It might have been with Jeremy, but where did that get us?
>
> Yes, the Uk was far gayer place :)

Somehow I don't think Thorpe was the Jeremy under consideration.

One difference between Ireland now and the UK then is that nobody
cares that Leo's gay.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
For forms of government let fools contest
Whate're is best administered is best - Alexander Pope

[maus]

On 2024-02-16, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> wrote:
> On 16 Feb 2024 15:48:28 GMT
> maus <ma...@deb2.org> wrote:
>
>> On 2024-02-16, Hymermut <to...@email.com> wrote:
>> > On 16/02/2024 01:05, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> >
>> > It might have been with Jeremy, but where did that get us?
>>
>> Yes, the Uk was far gayer place :)
>
> Somehow I don't think Thorpe was the Jeremy under consideration.
>
> One difference between Ireland now and the UK then is that nobody
> cares that Leo's gay.
>

They are more concerned as his uselessness.

[Jim Jackson]

On 2024-02-16, D <nos...@example.net> wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, 16 Feb 2024, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>
>> The vote count is currently underway in two bye-elections.
>>
>> Can I say how happy I am that (as far as I know), no-one is shouting about
>> "rigged elections" and threatening the election workers?
>>
>> UK democracy is far from perfect, but we haven't sunk _that_ far.
>
> There's been plenty of proof about rigged elections in the US

You mean by making it difficult for some sections of society to register
to vote? etc

> if you stray
> a bit outside the socialist mainstream media. So that is beyond dispute.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Ok F. me - everyone I don't agree with is a socialist!!!

God save us from the yanks.

[Sam Plusnet]

S'obvious.
If they aren't making evidence-free claims of rigged elections, they
_must_ be socialists (in that pejorative misuse of the word).

Look at all the claims of ballot rigging which have been upheld in the
courts...
(Ah... Sorry about that.)

--
Sam Plusnet

[D]

Racist Jim!

[D]

Which has nothing to do with the original point. But classic
example of a socialist argument for the rational people reading.

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On Fri, 16 Feb 2024 20:01:08 +0100

You must be new. Or bored. Ye Shedde is untrollable.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

And that was a particularly poor effort, not worth playing with.

[Jim Jackson]

yes, I apologise :-) God save from some yanks

[Richard Robinson]

Is "yank" actually a race ? Who won ? Or hasn't it finished yet ?

[maus]

On 2024-02-16, Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:

> On 16-Feb-24 17:23, Jim Jackson wrote:
>> On 2024-02-16, D <nos...@example.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, 16 Feb 2024, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>>
>>>> The vote count is currently underway in two bye-elections.
>>>>
>>>> Can I say how happy I am that (as far as I know), no-one is shouting about
>>>> "rigged elections" and threatening the election workers?
>>>>
>>>> UK democracy is far from perfect, but we haven't sunk _that_ far.
>>>
>>> There's been plenty of proof about rigged elections in the US
>>

The Election of John kennedy back then was extremely dodgy. Lots of
late votes from Chicago swung it

[Mike Spencer]

Richard Robinson <ric...@qualmograph.org.uk> writes:

> Is "yank" actually a race ? Who won ? Or hasn't it finished yet ?

To foreigners, a Yankee is an American.

To Americans, a Yankee is a Northerner.

To Northerners, a Yankee is an Easterner.

To Easterners, a Yankee is a New Englander.

To New Englanders, a Yankee is a Vermonter.

And in Vermont, a Yankee is somebody who eats pie for breakfast.


http://blog.storey.com/2010/07/andrea-chesman-pie-for-breakfast.html

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

[maus]

I have never been in Vermont, but I have heard the story;

"What is summer like in vermont?''

"Very nice, if it is on a weekend.''

[Abandoned Trolley]

On 16/02/2024 03:32, Hymermut wrote:
> On 16/02/2024 01:05, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>
>> UK democracy is far from perfect, but we haven't sunk _that_ far.
>
> Actually I think we have already, with the TV & newspaper media
> obviously already giving bias towards the tories, screaming about
> antisemitism in the Labour party yet again when they haven't fulfilled
> any of their own pledges at all, at all, and they ignore antisemitism in
> their own ranks. They brought us into recession because their stinking
> rich have creamed off the profits from covid and brought about Brexit to
> protect their off-shore wealth.
>

I would take issue with your suggestion that the media is "obviously
already giving bias towards the Tories" - in my view papers like the "i"
and the Guardian (which are admittedly in the minority) have a clear
anti- Tory bias, along with the whole of the BBC.

Anti Semitism in the media generally (this is also an opinion) appears
to get a disproportionally large amount of coverage, while major
instances of genocide simply get swept under the carpet and leave no
mark on history.

Also, the idea that the stinking rich have brought about Brexit in order
to protect their off-shore wealth seems a little obtuse as the “free
movement of capital” clearly was NOT mandatory for EU members. Have any
capital controls been put in place for UK residents since Brexit ?

And I know it was a long time ago, but you may have forgotten that it
was the Tories who took us IN to Europe in the first place – then barely
2 years later the Labour government held a referendum with the stated
objection of getting us out.

[John Williamson]

On 17/02/2024 10:28, Abandoned Trolley wrote:

> Anti Semitism in the media generally (this is also an opinion) appears
> to get a disproportionally large amount of coverage, while major
> instances of genocide simply get swept under the carpet and leave no
> mark on history.
>

It appears to be considered anti-semitic in this and other countries to
point out that the Israeli government might not actually be entirely
perfect. Expressing support for anyone opposing them seems to be a
definite no-no.

> Also, the idea that the stinking rich have brought about Brexit in order
> to protect their off-shore wealth seems a little obtuse as the “free
> movement of capital” clearly was NOT mandatory for EU members. Have any
> capital controls been put in place for UK residents since Brexit ?
>

It was a little more subtle than that. The EU were planning changes to
the tax regime which would have cost them money, so they wanted an
offshore tax haven.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[D]

No, no, I go deep. You might not see the results now, but playing the long
game I know some people will wake up from their illusions eventually. =)

[D]

On Fri, 16 Feb 2024, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

> On Fri, 16 Feb 2024 20:16:53 +0000
> "Kerr-Mudd, John" <ad...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 16 Feb 2024 20:01:08 +0100
>> D <nos...@example.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Which has nothing to do with the original point. But classic
>>> example of a socialist argument for the rational people reading.
>>
>> You must be new. Or bored. Ye Shedde is untrollable.
>
> And that was a particularly poor effort, not worth playing with.

Why not? It's already paying rich dividends!

[D]

All is forgiven! I turn the other cheek! ;)

[D]

On Sat, 17 Feb 2024, Richard Robinson wrote:

> Jim Jackson said:
>> On 2024-02-16, D <nos...@example.net> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 16 Feb 2024, Jim Jackson wrote:
>>>> On 2024-02-16, D <nos...@example.net> wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 16 Feb 2024, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The vote count is currently underway in two bye-elections.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can I say how happy I am that (as far as I know), no-one is shouting about
>>>>>> "rigged elections" and threatening the election workers?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> UK democracy is far from perfect, but we haven't sunk _that_ far.
>>>>>
>>>>> There's been plenty of proof about rigged elections in the US
>>>>
>>>> You mean by making it difficult for some sections of society to register
>>>> to vote? etc
>>>>
>>>>> if you stray
>>>>> a bit outside the socialist mainstream media. So that is beyond dispute.
>>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>>
>>>> Ok F. me - everyone I don't agree with is a socialist!!!
>>>>
>>>> God save us from the yanks.
>>>
>>> Racist Jim!
>>
>> yes, I apologise :-) God save from some yanks
>
> Is "yank" actually a race ? Who won ? Or hasn't it finished yet ?

Just to make it clear, that was part of the joke. Where I am from, a
moslem is apparently a "race", so the concept of race is one of those woke
concepts that can be stretched indefinitely to mean anyone not of the
mainstream culture regardless of if we are talking gender, ideology,
religion, environment etc.

[D]

On Sat, 17 Feb 2024, Abandoned Trolley wrote:

> And I know it was a long time ago, but you may have forgotten that it was the
> Tories who took us IN to Europe in the first place – then barely 2 years
> later the Labour government held a referendum with the stated objection of
> getting us out.

Socialists are always good at rewriting history. The classic is that
Hitler was a nazi and not a national _scoialist_. =)

[Abandoned Trolley]

>>
> It appears to be considered anti-semitic in this and other countries to
> point out that the Israeli government might not actually be entirely
> perfect. Expressing support for anyone opposing them seems to be a
> definite no-no.
>

I would go further than that, and suggest that even claiming that
Palestine has a right to exist can get you (or at least Jemermy Corbin)
in trouble. Two state solution ? - dream on

It will be interesting to see what happens if "our Jezza" decides to
stand as an independent candidate in Islington come the glorious day ...

[chr...@privacy.net]

On 17/02/2024 10:28, Abandoned Trolley wrote:

> Anti Semitism in the media generally (this is also an opinion) appears
> to get a disproportionally large amount of coverage, while major
> instances of genocide simply get swept under the carpet and leave no
> mark on history.

That is because the Israelis deliberately seem to want to obfuscate
between being an Israeli and necessarily being Jewish. The two do not
totally overlap but it feeds the idea that attacking Israel
automatically becomes anti-semitic. It is not. If those two are
separated it will become all too clear that the Israeli government is
'not behaving well' - something they really don't want to happen.


Chris

[chr...@privacy.net]

Yes, I get that. Some countries see the world that way. Those of us in
countries that do not will do well to preserve the distinctions. We
should seek to resist all attempts to allow race or religion equalling
the country's government. That way lies the return to racism and a
whole lot of other 'isms.

Chris

[John Williamson]

On 17/02/2024 12:06, Abandoned Trolley wrote:
>
>>>
>> It appears to be considered anti-semitic in this and other countries
>> to point out that the Israeli government might not actually be
>> entirely perfect. Expressing support for anyone opposing them seems to
>> be a definite no-no.
>>
>
> I would go further than that, and suggest that even claiming that
> Palestine has a right to exist can get you (or at least Jemermy Corbin)
> in trouble. Two state solution ? - dream on
>

Indeed.

> It will be interesting to see what happens if "our Jezza" decides to
> stand as an independent candidate in Islington come the glorious day ...

It could be very interesting, when you bear in mind that he has had a
steadily increasing majority in every election since he first moved in
and stood there.

[Richard Robinson]

Some people say silly things. This allows other people to think it's
okay to say silly things. They're still silly.

[Tease'n'Seize]

Sam Plusnet wrote:

> The vote count is currently underway in two bye-elections.

Disregarding any perceived bias in reporting ...

The actual factual reporting afterwards was pretty poor, I thought,
everything has to be a video, all sharing their opinion about why it was
like it was, but no plain table of numbers and pie charts of the 2024
result c.f. the 2019 result.

[Abandoned Trolley]

I have not seen a breakdown of the results, but I hear that the Reform
candidate came in 3rd in both of them ? - so that would suggest a
pretty awful result for the LibDems ?

[Richard Robinson]

Any other result for them would have been newsworthy enough to be
remarked upon ?

[Adrian]

In message <uqqips$fb8u$1...@dont-email.me>, Abandoned Trolley
<fr...@fred-smith.co.uk> writes

In both cases they lost their deposits. I goove that is rarely
considered a good result.

Adrian
--
To Reply :
replace "bulleid" with "adrian" - all mail to bulleid is rejected
Sorry for the rigmarole, If I want spam, I'll go to the shops
Every time someone says "I don't believe in trolls", another one dies.

[John Williamson]

On 17/02/2024 16:41, Adrian wrote:
> In message <uqqips$fb8u$1...@dont-email.me>, Abandoned Trolley
> <fr...@fred-smith.co.uk> writes

>> I have not seen a breakdown of the results, but I hear that the Reform
>> candidate came in 3rd in both of them ? - so that would suggest a
>> pretty awful result for the LibDems ?
>>
>
> In both cases they lost their deposits. I goove that is rarely
> considered a good result.
>

10% is more than they have ever done in the past.

The real downside is that the car storage guy is threatening to resurface.