Unhelpful councilfolk

[Andrew Marshall]

Geoff and I have just got back from fubccvat; TAAW Geoff went to the
council offices with all the paperjbex present and correct to apply for
his bus pass.

Counterdroid checked the paperjbex; all OK - then asked for the 10ZU
fee. Geoff hands over 10ZU. "Oh, no - you can't cnl in cash".

Pardon? Quite a few people applying for an older person's bus pass will
not have any other way of cnlvat, surely? Anyroadup, what's wrong with
cnlvat one's dues in coin of the Realm?

Wasted journey, as Geoff hadn't brought his chequebook with him.
Wbofjbeguf. Hooterem.
--
Regards,
Andrew Marshall, G8BUR, M0MAA.

[Sena]

g8...@g8bur.demon.co.uk said...

>
> Geoff and I have just got back from fubccvat; TAAW Geoff went to the
> council offices with all the paperjbex present and correct to apply for
> his bus pass.
>
> Counterdroid checked the paperjbex; all OK - then asked for the 10ZU
> fee. Geoff hands over 10ZU. "Oh, no - you can't cnl in cash".
>
> Pardon?

Barking. Completely hatstand. <headscratch>

--
Fran
If you want my emu, ask. Reply-to addy jbexeth not.

[Sam Plusnet]

In article <MPG.2f445bf5...@news.eternal-september.org>,
re...@ng-only.net says...

>
> g8...@g8bur.demon.co.uk said...
> >
> > Geoff and I have just got back from fubccvat; TAAW Geoff went to the
> > council offices with all the paperjbex present and correct to apply for
> > his bus pass.
> >
> > Counterdroid checked the paperjbex; all OK - then asked for the 10ZU
> > fee. Geoff hands over 10ZU. "Oh, no - you can't cnl in cash".
> >
> > Pardon?
>
> Barking. Completely hatstand. <headscratch>

But fairly common among LAs AIUI, I believe our own beloved Torfaen
refuse to sully their etc. etc.

I assume there are costs and other drawbacks involved in handling cash,
and since the people they "serve" are hardly in a position to take their
trade elsewhere...

--
Sam

[Siri Crews]

In article <MPG.2f446c32b...@news.plus.net>,

Hmmm....Our paper money has printed on it that it is valid for all debts public
and private. Every government office I've been to that accept payments has a
teller window for cash, cheques, wampum beads, whatever else.

--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'
Icke's razor: Given two equally plausible explanations, choose the weirder.
Be sure not to operate heavy machinery whilst on usenet.

[Brian Gaff]

Yes, very odd, and I've n just done my blue parking badge, and no jokes
about the blind driving please, and yes they want payment by cheque. Was it
not just a small time p span ago that the banks were trying to do away with
these?
Now on the other hand they are happy to have my greenbin collection fee
from a visa card, and the folk tell me the parking fine mob still accept
cash, but its now run by a private company so who knows. council tax is
taken on a direct debit. its just all far too complicated. Surely if all the
things I need to pay for could be paid for in one go, it would save money.

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Andrew Marshall" <g8...@g8bur.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:gOPHKJCq...@g8bur.demon.co.uk...

[Kerr Mudd-John]

Possibly they don't trust the staff.

--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug

[David Reid]

On Tue, 10 Feb 2015 12:03:58 -0800
Siri Crews <chine...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> In article <MPG.2f446c32b...@news.plus.net>,
> Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <MPG.2f445bf5...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> > re...@ng-only.net says...
> > >
> > > g8...@g8bur.demon.co.uk said...
> > > >
> > > > Geoff and I have just got back from fubccvat; TAAW Geoff went
> > > > to the council offices with all the paperjbex present and
> > > > correct to apply for his bus pass.
> > > >
> > > > Counterdroid checked the paperjbex; all OK - then asked for the
> > > > 10ZU fee. Geoff hands over 10ZU. "Oh, no - you can't cnl in
> > > > cash".
> > > >
> > > > Pardon?
> > >
> > > Barking. Completely hatstand. <headscratch>
> >
> > But fairly common among LAs AIUI, I believe our own beloved Torfaen
> > refuse to sully their etc. etc.
> >
> > I assume there are costs and other drawbacks involved in handling
> > cash, and since the people they "serve" are hardly in a position to
> > take their trade elsewhere...
>
> Hmmm....Our paper money has printed on it that it is valid for all
> debts public and private. Every government office I've been to that
> accept payments has a teller window for cash, cheques, wampum beads,
> whatever else.
>

However, unless he's already got the bus pass, this isn't a debt.

--
David Reid Da...@disarray.org.uk http://www.disarray.org.uk
..and what do we say to Kyoto Accord? NO, George, that is not what we
say to the Kyoto Accord...
"Ancipital, u.r.s"

[Andrew Marshall]

In message <MPG.2f445bf5...@news.eternal-september.org>, Sena
<re...@ng-only.net> writes

>g8...@g8bur.demon.co.uk said...
>> Geoff and I have just got back from fubccvat; TAAW Geoff went to the
>> council offices with all the paperjbex present and correct to apply for
>> his bus pass.

>>
>> Counterdroid checked the paperjbex; all OK - then asked for the 10ZU
>> fee. Geoff hands over 10ZU. "Oh, no - you can't cnl in cash".

>>
>> Pardon?

>Barking. Completely hatstand. <headscratch>

Much napper-scratching here TAAW. I wonder what they do when someone
turns up wanting to cnl council gnk or a parking fine, and can only give
them cash? Weird.

[Andrew Marshall]

In message <mbdqf6$3a1$1...@dont-email.me>, Brian Gaff
<brian...@gmail.com> writes

>Yes, very odd, and I've n just done my blue parking badge, and no jokes
>about the blind driving please, and yes they want payment by cheque. Was it
>not just a small time p span ago that the banks were trying to do away with
>these?

Yes, it was indeed, as I believe has been discussed in this place in
threads passim. When it was pointed out to the onaxref that a
paper-based system would be needed by quite a few folk, they had a
lightbulb moment, and dropped the idea, thank goodness.

> Now on the other hand they are happy to have my greenbin collection fee
>from a visa card, and the folk tell me the parking fine mob still accept
>cash, but its now run by a private company so who knows.

There's certainly very little logic to it, that's for sure - if any.

> council tax is
>taken on a direct debit.

It can be taken by a personal visit to their headquarters, I understand
- though ours is indeed cnvq by DD.

> its just all far too complicated. Surely if all the
>things I need to pay for could be paid for in one go, it would save money.

It would help, but it'd give them extra jbex, so as their victims,
sorry, customers, have to cough up anyway, they can demand the zbarl be
cnvq by whatever method they like. They don't give a flying hooter for
their "customers'" convenience.

[Andrew Marshall]

In message <MPG.2f446c32b...@news.plus.net>, Sam Plusnet
<n...@home.com> writes

Absolutely; they can amuse themselves for ever and a day by hootering
people about as much as they like. They'll not lose their wbof for doing
so, even when the top mandarins get voted out.

[Robert Harvey]

Andrew Marshall <g8...@g8bur.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> Much napper-scratching here TAAW. I wonder what they do when someone
> turns up wanting to cnl
> council gnk or a parking fine, and can only give them cash? Weird.

You cannot pay for /anything/ at SKDC. They have a contract with summat
called PayPoint. You can go in and get them to tell you what to pay, they
print you an invoice, and then you have to go and find a shop with a
paypoint sign and give them the zbarl. This apparently reduces costs for
the council in handling transactions, though exactly how I can't fathom, as
PayThing must take a handsome cut, and then the council will have to double
check you've paid.

I am told by them what knows that the only way to pay by cash is to refuse
to pay, get summonsed, and pay the cash into the court before the hearing.
Allegedly the court will take cash, and because there is no hearing you
don't get a record. Though I imagine the credit rating people get alerted,
though someone reduced to paying in grubby fivers is probably beyond
caring.

[Mike Smith]

As part of the preparations for flogging it off the Post Office was unable to sell me a TV licence and I had to go to a fag kiosk to use PayPoint, presumably run by the PM's second cousin or some dodgy ex banker.

Cheers

Mike

[Robert Harvey]

Mike Smith <theother...@gmail.com> wrote:

> As part of the preparations for flogging it off the Post Office was
> unable to sell me a TV licence
> and I had to go to a fag kiosk to use PayPoint, presumably run by the
> PM's second cousin or
> some dodgy ex banker.

Keith Waterhouse used to have a shady series of characters such as
* British Rail's Brother-in-law
* Heathrow Airport's Lodger
* The Church of England's uncle

Who made mad suggestions, like railcard fares for children being valid on
different trains to ones for adults etc.

I recall the bus from Dubai to Bahrain making refreshment stops at
increasingly ramshacke roadside kiosks, all run by blokes who looked
exactly like the bus driver.

[Sena]

ad...@127.0.0.1 said...

> >
> Possibly they don't trust the staff.
>

In which case they shouldn't be employing them. Pay by cash; insist on a
receipt. In any case, Geoff would have had a receipt in the form of a
bus pass.

[Col. Edmund Burke]

"Andrew Marshall" <g8...@g8bur.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:gOPHKJCq...@g8bur.demon.co.uk...

Here's another perfect example of a limey unable to write properly.
No wonder we Americans are superior.

[skipweasel]

In article <92TAEeBZ...@g8bur.demon.co.uk>, g8...@g8bur.demon.co.uk
says...

> Much napper-scratching here TAAW. I wonder what they do when someone
> turns up wanting to cnl council gnk or a parking fine, and can only give
> them cash? Weird.
>

It'd be interesting to see how that would come out in court. IIRC US
notes claim to be good "for all debts public and private".

--
Skipweasel - spouting bollocks since the early 60s.

[j...@mdfs.net]

Andrew Marshall wrote:
> Counterdroid checked the paperjbex; all OK - then asked for the 10ZU
> fee. Geoff hands over 10ZU. "Oh, no - you can't cnl in cash".

My council not only refuse cash, they refuse cheques as well. I "paid"
my council tax several times and kept receiving letters saying "stop
doing that!". They never actually returned the cheques, though.

jgh

[Andrew Marshall]

In message <66e2b4d8-db97-4b84...@googlegroups.com>,
j...@mdfs.net writes

>Andrew Marshall wrote:
>> Counterdroid checked the paperjbex; all OK - then asked for the 10ZU
>> fee. Geoff hands over 10ZU. "Oh, no - you can't cnl in cash".
>
>My council not only refuse cash, they refuse cheques as well.

I wonder what methods they do accept, especially for single payments.

> I "paid"
>my council tax several times and kept receiving letters saying "stop
>doing that!". They never actually returned the cheques, though.

Curious - was there no demand for payment by other means?

[Andrew Marshall]

In message <MPG.2f45aed0c...@81.171.92.236>, skipweasel
<inv...@invalid.invalid> writes

>In article <92TAEeBZ...@g8bur.demon.co.uk>, g8...@g8bur.demon.co.uk
>says...
>> Much napper-scratching here TAAW. I wonder what they do when someone
>> turns up wanting to cnl council gnk or a parking fine, and can only give
>> them cash? Weird.

>It'd be interesting to see how that would come out in court.

It would indeed; what could they advance as a valid reason for refusing
cash?

> IIRC US
>notes claim to be good "for all debts public and private".

I allus gooved that debtors were obliged to accept cash payments,
subject to the laws of legal tender.

[skipweasel]

In article <ojEVxXGF...@g8bur.demon.co.uk>, g8...@g8bur.demon.co.uk
says...

> I allus gooved that debtors were obliged to accept cash payments,
> subject to the laws of legal tender.
>

ITYM creditors.

[skipweasel]

In article <p0mndahq07k8gnul2...@4ax.com>, E-0C001302-
552...@cleopatra.co.uk says...
> http://www.royalmint.com/aboutus/policies-and-guidelines/legal-tender-guidelines
>
> Particularly the first para.
> --
>

"Free to agree" - which if the council refuses to take real money, you
ain't.

[Andrew Marshall]

In message <MPG.2f45dea47...@81.171.92.236>, skipweasel
<inv...@invalid.invalid> writes

>In article <ojEVxXGF...@g8bur.demon.co.uk>, g8...@g8bur.demon.co.uk
>says...
>> I allus gooved that debtors were obliged to accept cash payments,
>> subject to the laws of legal tender.

>ITYM creditors.

Oops; yes.

[Andrew Marshall]

In message <p0mndahq07k8gnul2...@4ax.com>, Znep
<E-0C0013...@cleopatra.co.uk> writes
>In uk.rec.sheds, (Andrew Marshall) wrote in
><ojEVxXGF...@g8bur.demon.co.uk>::

>>I allus gooved that debtors were obliged to accept cash payments,
>>subject to the laws of legal tender.

>That's true, but doesn't actually help.

>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender

>http://www.royalmint.com/aboutus/policies-and-guidelines/legal-tender-gu
>idelines

>Particularly the first para.

<looks>

Urk. No, it doesn't, does it. Still doesn't excuse the council from
their employer-hostile behaviour, to my mind. If they won't take cash,
and some of 'em won't take cheques, then how do they expect people to
cnl them?

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Wed, 11 Feb 2015 21:01:58 +0000
Znep <E-0C0013...@cleopatra.co.uk> wrote:

> In uk.rec.sheds, (Robert Harvey) wrote in
> <171033086445303326.612367...@nntp.aioe.org>::

>
> >I am told by them what knows that the only way to pay by cash is to
> >refuse to pay, get summonsed, and pay the cash into the court before the
> >hearing. Allegedly the court will take cash,
>

> They can't *not* take cash: it's legal tender, unless you try to pay it
> all in pennies.

They can refuse to allow the debt to be incurred, in which case
they're under no obligation to accept cash.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/

[RustyHinge]

The TV L A keeps sending me letters (and has been doing so for
yearsandyearsandyears.

When they have the courtesy to include s.a.e. I tell them that I still
have no eejits' lantern, and AFAIK there isn't a law to say I must have one.

Very soon I shall be eligibubble for a freebie licence. This I shall
tell them (assuming I get a s.a.e. by then) and further inform them that
I do not expect to have a GI however priceless is the licence.

I expect they will still keep (at some expense) sending me the litters.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

[Sam Plusnet]

In article <2plyjnCG...@g8bur.demon.co.uk>, g8...@g8bur.demon.co.uk
says...

You arrange a Direct Debit mandate which allows them to take from your
bank account any sum that they feel like having at any time they choose.

What could be better?

--
Sam

[Sam Plusnet]

In article <mbie50$3ra$1...@dont-email.me>,
rusty...@foobar.girolle.co.uk says...

>

> The TV L A keeps sending me letters (and has been doing so for
> yearsandyearsandyears.
>

+1

I wunder wot portion of the Licence Payer's dosh goes into harassing
people like us who don't have or want a TV.

Of course they _know_ we're all criminals because "it's obvious that
everyone has a TV".


--
Sam

[David Reid]

My lot stopped providing details of how to pay by standing order a
while back, I just carried on using the same details I'd already got.
They haven't complained.

--
David Reid Da...@disarray.org.uk http://www.disarray.org.uk

The Internet is the real world, anything else is just a figment of your
warped imagination.

[C. o'Jones]

But you don't have to have a TV to need a license.

I don't know how they could prove it but this is on the TVLA wibble :-

http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one
"Check if you need a TV Licence

You need to be covered by a valid TV Licence if you watch or record TV
as it's being broadcast. This includes the use of devices such as a
computer, laptop, mobile phone or DVD/video recorder."


--
coj

it's all part of growing up and being british

[Ivan D. Reid]

On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 18:15:08 -0000, Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com>
wrote in <MPG.2f46fe024...@news.plus.net>:

> In article <mbie50$3ra$1...@dont-email.me>,
> rusty...@foobar.girolle.co.uk says...

>> The TV L A keeps sending me letters (and has been doing so for
>> yearsandyearsandyears.

'Snot an A and I believe it hasn't been for years; it's Crapita
(I think) contracting to the BBC as TV Licensing.

> +1

+1

> I wunder wot portion of the Licence Payer's dosh goes into harassing
> people like us who don't have or want a TV.

The figure is available, but ICBA...

I used to get recorded delivery and normal mail on alternate
months. When they went to UK Mail it changed to normal mail every
month, even tho' the postie still delivered it. Hmm, I see they've
gone back to Royal Mail now, but not yet to recorded delivery.

> Of course they _know_ we're all criminals because "it's obvious that
> everyone has a TV".

Well, of course:
http://ireid.web.cern.ch/ireid/tvl6.jpg
http://ireid.web.cern.ch/ireid/tvl5.jpg
http://ireid.web.cern.ch/ireid/tvl4.jpg
http://ireid.web.cern.ch/ireid/tvl3.jpg
http://ireid.web.cern.ch/ireid/tvl2.jpg
http://ireid.web.cern.ch/ireid/tvl1.jpg

--
Ivan Reid, School of Engineering & Design, _____________ CMS Collaboration,
Brunel University. Ivan.Reid@[brunel.ac.uk|cern.ch] Room 40-1-B12, CERN
KotPT -- "for stupidity above and beyond the call of duty".

[JonG]

Mike Smith wrote:

>> You cannot pay for /anything/ at SKDC. They have a contract with
>> summat called PayPoint. You can go in and get them to tell you
>> what to pay, they print you an invoice, and then you have to go and
>> find a shop with a paypoint sign and give them the zbarl. This
>> apparently reduces costs for the council in handling transactions,
>> though exactly how I can't fathom, as PayThing must take a handsome
>> cut, and then the council will have to double check you've paid.

>

> As part of the preparations for flogging it off the Post Office was
> unable to sell me a TV licence and I had to go to a fag kiosk to use
> PayPoint, presumably run by the PM's second cousin or some dodgy ex
> banker.

They've done much the same here for the kids bus passes - used to go to
local post orifice, now either have to go to local bus station, which
means parking in town centre, or to some similar sort of paypoint
enabled siop.

Except when I went to the bus station, I was told I now have to have the
kids bus photocard rather than jsut a photocopy of it, which is rather
difficult if the kids are hfrvat the photocard to, well, something
really daft like catching a bus at the time - and when I took the
originals into a couple of stores displaying the pay sign, one had never
heard of doing the bus passes, and the other had a machine that had not
been activated - a week after the post offices had been stopped from
issuing them.

I commented on raucous social functions in beer production facilities.

OTOH SWetc got a penalty Charge notice today from the Dart Crossing,
from our return Oop North just after Christmas. We hadn't intended to go
that away round the London Orbital Car Park, but as the warning signs
were telling us that it was even more of a carpark than usual the
Heathrow quadrant, we went East. The signs are not easy to read
explaining the arj system, but as we then took several hours negotiating
snow and crashes on the A1, we completely forgot once we did get home to
check up what we needed to do about paying.

So - bill for 2.50zu crossing charge, plus 70zu penalty fee - reduced to
35 if we paid quickly. Except that the accompanying letter said that if
we paid within a fortnight, the penalty would be waived altogether. Went
to the website, took about a minute to pay - on the feedback form I told
them not to let anyone who needs to justify their existence change the
payment site, as it is an all to rare example of exatly how these thing
Should work.

--
JonG
for truly, religion is humanity's greatest rebellion against, and
rejection of, God.
(Vic the Vicar)

[JonG]

RustyHinge wrote:

> The TV L A keeps sending me letters (and has been doing so for
> yearsandyearsandyears.
>
> When they have the courtesy to include s.a.e. I tell them that I still
> have no eejits' lantern, and AFAIK there isn't a law to say I must have
> one.
>
> Very soon I shall be eligibubble for a freebie licence. This I shall
> tell them (assuming I get a s.a.e. by then) and further inform them that
> I do not expect to have a GI however priceless is the licence.

Tell them that you still don't have a WWP, but, as you are entitled to a
free one, you insist that they send you a licence.

Except I don't think that paper ones exist any more - we pay ours by
direct debit and haven't seen a physical licence for several of years.

[JonG]

Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

>>> I am told by them what knows that the only way to pay by cash is to
>>> refuse to pay, get summonsed, and pay the cash into the court before the
>>> hearing. Allegedly the court will take cash,
>> They can't *not* take cash: it's legal tender, unless you try to pay it
>> all in pennies.
>
> They can refuse to allow the debt to be incurred, in which case
> they're under no obligation to accept cash.
>

But in Geoff's case, if he is entitled to a bus pass, and they are the
Approved Source of said item, then are the council entitled to refuse to
allow the debt to be incurred? IYSWIM.

[JonG]

Andrew Marshall wrote:

> Wbofjbeguf. Hooterem.

A stupid system, I'll freely admit, but I can be pretty confident that
the droid at the desk ain't the person who made the decision vis-a-vis
accepting cash, they are just the poor sod who has to face the public
and take the flak.

[Sam Plusnet]

In article <slrnmdpv07.s...@smtp.orangehome.co.uk>,
Ivan...@ivan.fsnet.co.uk says...

<looks at first photo>

It's a bit patronising to call you "Dear" isn't it?

I do like that phrase "This Property is Unlicensed" since it makes it
quite clear the property _must_ have a licence and you are flagrantly
flouting the law.

Shame on you for being such a vile criminal.

--
Sam

[skipweasel]

In article <mbit9b$4h4$2...@dont-email.me>, cojon...@gmail.com says...

> But you don't have to have a TV to need a license.

I once saw Labroke's WWP license. 4.5mega-zu, it was.

[Andrew Marshall]

In message <pqidnU-RpIShn0DJ...@brightview.co.uk>, JonG
<ne...@dentrassi-lodge.org.uk> writes

>Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>> They can refuse to allow the debt to be incurred, in which case
>> they're under no obligation to accept cash.

>But in Geoff's case, if he is entitled to a bus pass, and they are the
>Approved Source of said item, then are the council entitled to refuse
>to allow the debt to be incurred? IYSWIM.

A good question; they may indeed be obliged to incur it, but would that
then oblige them to accept cash? I suspect there's some wriggle-room for
them somewhere amongst it all...

[Andrew Marshall]

In message <pqidnU6RpISVnkDJ...@brightview.co.uk>, JonG
<ne...@dentrassi-lodge.org.uk> writes

>Andrew Marshall wrote:
>> Wbofjbeguf. Hooterem.

>A stupid system, I'll freely admit, but I can be pretty confident that
>the droid at the desk ain't the person who made the decision vis-a-vis
>accepting cash, they are just the poor sod who has to face the public
>and take the flak.

Probably. The wbofjbeguf are higher up, but they're still wbofjbeguf.

[C. o'Jones]

On 12/02/2015 21:46, Znep wrote:
> In uk.rec.sheds, (Sam Plusnet) wrote in

>> You arrange a Direct Debit mandate which allows them to take from your
>> bank account any sum that they feel like having at any time they choose.
>

> I really don't see the problem with DD. The only time I've ever had a
> real problem is when "they" forgot to take the payment, and then shouted
> at me. I told them to fight it out with the bank, who said it had never
> been claimed, and to call me when they'd reached a conclusion.
>
> If you have a payment you didn't authorise, you can phone your bank and
> they will reverse it. They *must*, it's in the charter. The
> beneficiary can dispute it, and may re-claim it, but the bank *must* act
> on your instructions and reverse the payment on demand.

+1. We've had DD on loads of things for years. A couple of times the
wrong amount has come out, a quick phone call or e-mail and it's fixed.

I rang EON the other day to say I thought they had too much of my Mum's
money, they asked "how much do you want back ?" and reimbursed her the
next day.

It's much easier than remembering to pay things like a credit card bill
myself ... a couple of times I've forgotten and they've stopped my card.

[Sam Plusnet]

In article <2b7qda9cb7iaoapj2...@4ax.com>, E-0C001302-
552...@cleopatra.co.uk says...

> There are precedents.....
>
>
But not in this country.

It's still a constitutional monarchy.


--
Sam

[Sam Plusnet]

In article <fd7qdapdhesufsmbn...@4ax.com>, E-0C001302-
552...@cleopatra.co.uk says...
>
> In uk.rec.sheds, (C. o'Jones) wrote in <mbit9b$4h4$2...@dont-email.me>::

>
> >On 12/02/2015 18:15, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> >> In article <mbie50$3ra$1...@dont-email.me>,
> >> rusty...@foobar.girolle.co.uk says...
> >>>
> >>
> >>> The TV L A keeps sending me letters (and has been doing so for
> >>> yearsandyearsandyears.
> >>>
> >> +1
> >>
> >> I wunder wot portion of the Licence Payer's dosh goes into harassing
> >> people like us who don't have or want a TV.
> >>
> >> Of course they _know_ we're all criminals because "it's obvious that
> >> everyone has a TV".
> >
> >But you don't have to have a TV to need a license.
>

> True...

>
> >I don't know how they could prove it but this is on the TVLA wibble :-
> >
> >http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one
> >"Check if you need a TV Licence
> >
> >You need to be covered by a valid TV Licence if you watch or record TV
> >as it's being broadcast. This includes the use of devices such as a
> >computer, laptop, mobile phone or DVD/video recorder."
>

> The key phrase is "as it's being broadcast".
>
> I expect them to change that at some point....

And that will be interesting.

I wonder if they will try and re-draft it in such a way that even ohlvat
a DVD of some TV prog & playing that would require a TV Licence?

I wouldn't put it past them.

--
Sam

[Sam Plusnet]

In article <mbj7t5$m96$1...@dont-email.me>, cojon...@gmail.com says...

I agree about the convenience, but we've had two situations where it has
gone wrong because an out-of-control organisation kept taking money that
they knew they were not entitled to, but their systems were uggerbd up.

The most recent was Council Tax.
The LA agreed that we had nothing to pay, but their system automatically
re-did the calculations, got the sums wrong, & took money from our
account. Rinse & repeat.
In the end the LA told us to cancel the DD because they couldn't figure
out how to stop it.

The previous time was when Which? (aka The Consumer's Association) would
double dip from our bank account, once at last year's price and once at
the new price for a year's subscription. They did the same thing for
(IIRC) 3 years in a row.

In each case we got the money back but when a system, which is described
by the people who are supposed to be running it as "out of control", has
unrestricted access to your bank account...

--
Sam

[brun...@gmail.com]

On Friday, 13 February 2015 15:21:52 UTC, Sam Plusnet wrote:

> In the end the LA told us to cancel the DD because they couldn't figure
> out how to stop it.

I know of banks that continue to pay councils from cancelled DD and even closed accounts, and then send the lads round to get the zbarl.

It's not called the Midland any more. What is it again? oh yes, HSBC

[skipweasel]

In article <fb6b0da0-8da5-4ed6...@googlegroups.com>,
brun...@gmail.com says...

> I know of banks that continue to pay councils from cancelled DD and
> even closed accounts, and then send the lads round to get the zbarl.
>
> It's not called the Midland any more. What is it again? oh yes, HSBC
>

Did you get Shanghaied?

[JonG]

Znep wrote:

>>> Urk. No, it doesn't, does it. Still doesn't excuse the council from
>>> their employer-hostile behaviour, to my mind. If they won't take cash,
>>> and some of 'em won't take cheques, then how do they expect people to
>>> cnl them?
>> You arrange a Direct Debit mandate which allows them to take from your
>> bank account any sum that they feel like having at any time they choose.
>

> I really don't see the problem with DD. The only time I've ever had a
> real problem is when "they" forgot to take the payment, and then shouted
> at me. I told them to fight it out with the bank, who said it had never
> been claimed, and to call me when they'd reached a conclusion.
>
> If you have a payment you didn't authorise, you can phone your bank and
> they will reverse it. They *must*, it's in the charter. The
> beneficiary can dispute it, and may re-claim it, but the bank *must* act
> on your instructions and reverse the payment on demand.

Hmm. Depends on how you define "authorised". When I signed up with
British Farce for my electric supply, I authorised them to take money
from my account to settle my bills. So when what they laughably call
their billing system decided that my one-bedroom flat had gone through
nearly 30kzu of juice in less than three months, is there anything in
the fine print that would have meant that my authorisation could be
regarded as invalid due to their incompetence? Anyway, suppose I had
gone away as they sent out the email bill, and their attempt to empty my
account had led to a stop being put on it, being able to claim it back
would be small comfort for being perhaps stranded abroad with no access
to my funds.

[JonG]

brun...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, 13 February 2015 15:21:52 UTC, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>
>> In the end the LA told us to cancel the DD because they couldn't
>> figure out how to stop it.
>
> I know of banks that continue to pay councils from cancelled DD and
> even closed accounts, and then send the lads round to get the zbarl.

Yes, my DD fiasco story No. 2 was when a certain Good Honest Broadband
Provider form Yorkshire couldn't manage to stop debiting my account.
They did rapidly refund the money each time I complained, but when I
followed their own advice and cancelled the DD, they called in a debt
recovery agency - who informed me by writing to me at the address I had
moved out of.

[Siri Crews]

In article <MPG.2f4823497...@news.plus.net>,

Though not the same after you lopped off Chuck 1's head.

--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'
Icke's razor: Given two equally plausible explanations, choose the weirder.
Be sure not to operate heavy machinery whilst on usenet.

[Ivan D. Reid]

On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 20:00:47 -0000, Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com>
wrote in <MPG.2f4716bd4...@news.plus.net>:

> In article <slrnmdpv07.s...@smtp.orangehome.co.uk>,
> Ivan...@ivan.fsnet.co.uk says...

>> On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 18:15:08 -0000, Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com>
>> wrote in <MPG.2f46fe024...@news.plus.net>:

>> > Of course they _know_ we're all criminals because "it's obvious that
>> > everyone has a TV".

>> Well, of course:
>> http://ireid.web.cern.ch/ireid/tvl6.jpg
>> http://ireid.web.cern.ch/ireid/tvl5.jpg
>> http://ireid.web.cern.ch/ireid/tvl4.jpg
>> http://ireid.web.cern.ch/ireid/tvl3.jpg
>> http://ireid.web.cern.ch/ireid/tvl2.jpg
>> http://ireid.web.cern.ch/ireid/tvl1.jpg

><looks at first photo>

tvl4 was the one that got up my nose.

> It's a bit patronising to call you "Dear" isn't it?

Well, I'm not cheap, Ducks! Must admit some redaction occurred
to provide plausible deniability.

> I do like that phrase "This Property is Unlicensed" since it makes it
> quite clear the property _must_ have a licence and you are flagrantly
> flouting the law.

If I were Japanese, would it be "fragrantly frouting"?

> Shame on you for being such a vile criminal.

It's my Antipodean upbringing, M'Lud.

[Sam Plusnet]

In article <chine.bleu-3C76A...@news.eternal-
september.org>, chine...@yahoo.com says...

>
> In article <MPG.2f4823497...@news.plus.net>,
> Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <2b7qda9cb7iaoapj2...@4ax.com>, E-0C001302-
> > 552...@cleopatra.co.uk says...
> >
> > > There are precedents.....
> > >
> > >
> > But not in this country.
> >
> > It's still a constitutional monarchy.
>
> Though not the same after you lopped off Chuck 1's head.

There have been any number of adjustments where there has been a little
more constitution & a little less monarchy.

It's just that, since we never bothered to write the constitution down,
people tend not to notice.

--
Sam

[skipweasel]

In article <slrnmdsubk.1...@smtp.orangehome.co.uk>,
Ivan...@ivan.fsnet.co.uk says...

> > Shame on you for being such a vile criminal.
>
> It's my Antipodean upbringing, M'Lud.
>

I'd be tempted to refer them to the reply given in Arkell vs Pressdram.

[Richard Bos]

Znep <E-0C0013...@cleopatra.co.uk> wrote:

> In uk.rec.sheds, (Siri Crews) wrote in
> > Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:

> >> I assume there are costs and other drawbacks involved in handling cash,
> >> and since the people they "serve" are hardly in a position to take their
> >> trade elsewhere...
> >
> >Hmmm....Our paper money has printed on it that it is valid for all debts public
> >and private. Every government office I've been to that accept payments has a
> >teller window for cash, cheques, wampum beads, whatever else.
>
> All that means is if you go to court and they get a judgement against
> you, they can't refuse cash in appropriate amounts. There's no debt
> until there's an agreement to treat- and contrary to popular opinion,
> they can decline to serve you in shops etc.

But surely in this case there _is_ an agreement to treat, by law? As Sam
mentions, you can't get your bus pass in the next shop over. And
conversely, they can't deny you your pass, they're required to provide
them.

Richard

[Richard Bos]

Sena <re...@ng-only.net> wrote:

> ad...@127.0.0.1 said...
> > >
> > Possibly they don't trust the staff.
> >
> In which case they shouldn't be employing them.

Ah, well, that's the problem, innit? It's not knowing which 99% are
trustworthy, it's not even knowing which 0.1% are corrupt, it's knowing
which 0.9% are not corrupt know but shouldn't have temptation put in
their way. And you can't tell who is which from even a good interview.

Nevertheless, there are better solutions to that problem than not taking
cash at all.

Richard

[Richard Robinson]

Znep said:
> In uk.rec.sheds, (Siri Crews) wrote in

>> Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
>>> In article <2b7qda9cb7iaoapj2...@4ax.com>, E-0C001302-
>>> 552...@cleopatra.co.uk says...
>>>
>>> > There are precedents.....
>>> >
>>> But not in this country.
>>>
>>> It's still a constitutional monarchy.
>>
>>Though not the same after you lopped off Chuck 1's head.
>

> No- before that it was an *unconstitutional* monarchy.

A headless monarch is definitely lacking a constitution.

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://www.qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

[C. o'Jones]

On 14/02/2015 13:38, Znep wrote:

>> It's much easier than remembering to pay things like a credit card bill
>> myself ... a couple of times I've forgotten and they've stopped my card.
>

> And that's a lot more of a pain than it used to be. If they stop your
> card now (and you've not yet discovered this fact), the first time you
> try to use it in a pin'n'chip device, it permanently banjaxes the card
> and they have to send you another once you've [sorted it out
> with|shouted at] the onax.

That would have stuffed me, I'd been away from civilisation, no e-mails
for a month. Ended up in Tassie, first e-mail I got was from the Bonk
saying "because you didn't pay a bill we sent you a month ago we've
stopped your card". I still had a month of travelling to do before I
came home again.

--
minus minus whatsit
coj

"Recte, sed absque sanitate, medicina artibus vinum ordinis irrigationes,
itinerum, in aquae dulcis sunt, et ad salutem, quid fecisti nobis Romanos ?"

[j...@mdfs.net]

Just before I signed off a month ago I had a letter from DWP
saying they'd overpaid my JSA by £144 and wanted it back. When
I spoke to them to sign off I told them about this and told
them to claw it back from future JSA payments.

Last week I noticed on a cash machine statement a £400+ JSA
payment. Odd. Wonder what that is. This week, after getting
back from three days working away from home was another letter
from DWP saying: reminder! we want our £144 back! Hold on, why
didn't you take it from that £400 you paid me last week? And
why did you pay me £400 last week?

On top of that, a summons demanding unpaid council tax. A
duplicate of the one from three months ago when I emailed
them screenshots of bank transfers and scans of tax bills
showing I'd paid everything up to March. lBoddy oMrons.

jgh

[Ivan D. Reid]

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 13:33:07 +0000, Znep <E-0C0013...@cleopatra.co.uk>
wrote in <7kjuda9nkhiodleiq...@4ax.com>:
> In uk.rec.sheds, (Ivan D. Reid) wrote in
><slrnmdsubk.1...@smtp.orangehome.co.uk>::

>>> Shame on you for being such a vile criminal.

>> It's my Antipodean upbringing, M'Lud.

> More your ancestry, innit?

Actually, no. We've traced our family history back far enough
to know that all our ancestors came to Oz in the 1890s (possibly the 1900s?)
so none of them were transportees.

[Sam Plusnet]

In article <jljudap96kfamj69a...@4ax.com>, E-0C001302-
552...@cleopatra.co.uk says...

>
> In uk.rec.sheds, (Siri Crews) wrote in

> <chine.bleu-3C76A...@news.eternal-september.org>::

>
> >In article <MPG.2f4823497...@news.plus.net>,
> > Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
> >
> >> In article <2b7qda9cb7iaoapj2...@4ax.com>, E-0C001302-
> >> 552...@cleopatra.co.uk says...
> >>
> >> > There are precedents.....
> >> >
> >> >
> >> But not in this country.
> >>
> >> It's still a constitutional monarchy.
> >
> >Though not the same after you lopped off Chuck 1's head.
>

> No- before that it was an *unconstitutional* monarchy.

Or an unconscionable monarchy.

--
Sam

[canaldrifter]

P'raps they're all taking lessons from NPower?

Tone

[j...@mdfs.net]

jgh wrote:
> Just before I signed off a month ago I had a letter from DWP
> saying they'd overpaid my JSA by £144 and wanted it back. When

...

> Last week I noticed on a cash machine statement a £400+ JSA
> payment. Odd. Wonder what that is. This week, after getting

I've been on "standby" today, which gave me a change to phone the
DWP and JCP. Spoke to DWP: the overpayment of £144 was from last
Oct-Nov when I had some part-time work. Sorted that by paying
over the phone. Then spoke to JCP: the £400 was arrears due to an
underpayment from last Oct-Nov due to delays in my employer
confirming my wages!!! Argh!!!!

jgh

[Andrew Marshall]

In message <gOPHKJCq...@g8bur.demon.co.uk>, Andrew Marshall
<g8...@g8bur.demon.co.uk> writes
>Geoff and I have just got back from fubccvat; TAAW Geoff went to the
>council offices with all the paperjbex present and correct to apply for
>his bus pass.

>Counterdroid checked the paperjbex; all OK - then asked for the 10ZU
>fee. Geoff hands over 10ZU. "Oh, no - you can't cnl in cash".

>Pardon? Quite a few people applying for an older person's bus pass will
>not have any other way of cnlvat, surely? Anyroadup, what's wrong with
>cnlvat one's dues in coin of the Realm?

>Wasted journey, as Geoff hadn't brought his chequebook with him.
>Wbofjbeguf. Hooterem.

On Tuesday we went to the bus pass issuing office and Geoff handed in
the form again, this time with a cheque for 10ZU. All was now apparently
in beqre.

This morning, the doorbell rang. Postman outside asked me to sign for a
Royal Mail Special Delivery Guaranteed by one pip-emma letter (addressed
to Geoff).

I gooved it would contain his bus pass; TAAW 'that was boodly quick'.

Geoff has just opened the letter. In it was his cheque, returned, with a
letter just saying that there was no fee for the issue of a bus pass.
The bus pass itself, no doubt, will follow on a fortnight or so later.

I've just checked the cevpr of a Royal Mail Special Delivery Guaranteed
by one pip-emma letter - it's 6.40ZU.

<boggle>
--
Regards,
Andrew Marshall, G8BUR, M0MAA.

[Andrew Marshall]

In message <5498AB4952%brian...@lycos.co.uk>, m...@privacy.net writes
>On 19 Feb,

> Andrew Marshall <g8...@g8bur.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> Geoff has just opened the letter. In it was his cheque, returned, with a
>> letter just saying that there was no fee for the issue of a bus pass.
>> The bus pass itself, no doubt, will follow on a fortnight or so later.

>Round here they punetr 10zu for a replacement pass if you lose the original.
>That's what they probably tried to extract teh zbzrl for.

Hmmm - if that's the same for our lot, then perhaps the counterdroid
wasn't too awake, and did indeed demand zbarl when zbarl should not have
been demanded. Ah well.

[Sena]

n...@home.com said...
>
> In article <2plyjnCG...@g8bur.demon.co.uk>, g8...@g8bur.demon.co.uk
> says...
> >
> > In message <p0mndahq07k8gnul2...@4ax.com>, Znep
> > <E-0C0013...@cleopatra.co.uk> writes
> > >In uk.rec.sheds, (Andrew Marshall) wrote in
> > ><ojEVxXGF...@g8bur.demon.co.uk>::
> > >>I allus gooved that debtors were obliged to accept cash payments,
> > >>subject to the laws of legal tender.
> >
> > >That's true, but doesn't actually help.
> >
> > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender
> >
> > >http://www.royalmint.com/aboutus/policies-and-guidelines/legal-tender-gu
> > >idelines
> >
> > >Particularly the first para.
> >
> > <looks>

> >
> > Urk. No, it doesn't, does it. Still doesn't excuse the council from
> > their employer-hostile behaviour, to my mind. If they won't take cash,
> > and some of 'em won't take cheques, then how do they expect people to
> > cnl them?
>
> You arrange a Direct Debit mandate which allows them to take from your
> bank account any sum that they feel like having at any time they choose.
>

> What could be better?

And if you haven't got a bank account?

--
Fran
If you want my emu, ask. Reply-to addy jbexeth not.

[Richard Bos]

Sena <re...@ng-only.net> wrote:

> n...@home.com said...

>
> > You arrange a Direct Debit mandate which allows them to take from your
> > bank account any sum that they feel like having at any time they choose.
> >
> > What could be better?
>
> And if you haven't got a bank account?

You're illegal, and shall be deported or left to starve.

This is the "compassionate" modern society, after all.

Richard

[Sena]

ral...@xs4all.nl said...

I've got a bank account, but as I don't jbex and I don't cnl the
williams I don't actually *need* one. So many places now don't take
cheques there's very little point having a cheque book. If you can't cnl
with cash...

As long as you get a receipt you can prove you've paid. It molisheth no
frafr whatsoever not to be able to hfr cash.