Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss

Lockdown?

25 views
Skip to first unread message

Tone

unread,
Oct 31, 2020, 11:43:36 AM10/31/20
to
What is the point of a national lock-down if universities and schools
are not closed?

Tone

Chris Elvidge

unread,
Oct 31, 2020, 12:01:48 PM10/31/20
to
Or even Barnard Castle.


--

Chris Elvidge, England

Richard Robinson

unread,
Oct 31, 2020, 12:03:01 PM10/31/20
to
Tone said:
> What is the point of a national lock-down if universities and schools
> are not closed?

To demonstrate that words can mean anything you want, if you're
sufficiently in charge ?


--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

Tease'n'Seize

unread,
Oct 31, 2020, 12:10:18 PM10/31/20
to
Tone wrote:

> What is the point of a national lock-down if universities and schools
> are not closed?

Sounds like we're all going into tier 4 (Extremely High?)

Liverpool was the first area to enter tier 3, to me it looks like the
infections were already falling there before the 14th October, and it
doesn't seem to have changed the rate of decline much ...

<http://andyburns.uk/misc/Liverpool%20tier3.png>

Ahem A Rivet's Shot

unread,
Oct 31, 2020, 2:00:02 PM10/31/20
to
We went into level 5 lockdown a week ago, universities are
operating with all classes online but schools operating as normal. Over the
week the daily count has gone down from 1100 to less than 500. So the point
is ... it jbexes.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/

Tease'n'Seize

unread,
Oct 31, 2020, 2:20:49 PM10/31/20
to
Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

> We went into level 5 lockdown a week ago, universities are
> operating with all classes online but schools operating as normal. Over the
> week the daily count has gone down from 1100 to less than 500. So the point
> is ... it jbexes.

Unlike the Liverpool graph I posted earlier, the Lancashire graph does
seem to show restrictions catching the tail-end of a rise and turning it
into a fall (insofar as you can tell, given you'll never know what would
have happened without tier3)

<http://andyburns.uk/misc/Lancashire%20tier3.png>

Ahem A Rivet's Shot

unread,
Oct 31, 2020, 3:30:02 PM10/31/20
to

Tease'n'Seize

unread,
Oct 31, 2020, 4:14:35 PM10/31/20
to
Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

>> We went into level 5 lockdown a week ago
>
Looks like it has been dropping for two weeks, not one?


nib

unread,
Oct 31, 2020, 4:22:23 PM10/31/20
to
Restrictions have been coming into effect gradually from mid-September in
some areas, such as Dublin, and from the beginning of October nationally,
then full lockdown 1 week ago. From that Wikipedia article, as I read it.

nib

Ahem A Rivet's Shot

unread,
Oct 31, 2020, 5:00:02 PM10/31/20
to
On Sat, 31 Oct 2020 20:14:33 +0000
Tease'n'Seize <tease-and-seize@invalid> wrote:

Some parts of the country got partially locked down early, so yes.

Mike Fleming

unread,
Oct 31, 2020, 5:01:59 PM10/31/20
to
In article <rnk0n7$jct$1...@dont-email.me>, Tone <em...@address.com>
writes:

> What is the point of a national lock-down if universities and schools
> are not closed?

"We must do something. This is something, so we are doing it."

If you served the measures being taken in a pub, Trading Standards
would have you in a heartbeat. We're now on for far more deaths and
far more economic damage than had we locked down in September.

Tease'n'Seize

unread,
Oct 31, 2020, 5:30:53 PM10/31/20
to
Mike Fleming wrote:

> We're now on for far more deaths and
> far more economic damage than had we locked down in September.

Welsh lockdown is only part-way through, so will take about a fortnight
for it to a) complete and b) collate results, but if you squint at the
graph, it doesn't seem to have nudged the graph down yet?

<http://andyburns.uk/misc/Welsh%20firebreak.png>

Sam Plusnet

unread,
Oct 31, 2020, 5:41:02 PM10/31/20
to
On 31-Oct-20 16:03, Richard Robinson wrote:
> Tone said:
>> What is the point of a national lock-down if universities and schools
>> are not closed?
>
> To demonstrate that words can mean anything you want, if you're
> sufficiently in charge ?
>
>
You can go anywhere (& do anything) you like, as long as it is within
the United Kingdom.

Is that what it means?

P.S. This "National" lockdown will not affect Scotland, Wales nor Norn
Iron - but Hey! it's only words so who cares.

--
Sam Plusnet

Sam Plusnet

unread,
Oct 31, 2020, 5:43:28 PM10/31/20
to
On 31-Oct-20 17:41, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

We went into level 5 lockdown a week ago, universities are
> operating with all classes online but schools operating as normal. Over the
> week the daily count has gone down from 1100 to less than 500. So the point
> is ... it jbexes.
>

That sounds like a tremendously fast response time if that is cause &
effect.
Shouldn't there be more of a lag?

--
Sam Plusnet

Kerr-Mudd,John

unread,
Oct 31, 2020, 6:23:20 PM10/31/20
to
On Sat, 31 Oct 2020 21:30:51 GMT, Tease'n'Seize <tease-and-seize@invalid>
wrote:
Colour me cynical; but I think there'll be folk who won't/aren't taking it
as seriously this time; certainly traffic hasn't reduced severely, there's
grumbling about being told not to buy e.g. clothes from supermarkets.

--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.

Mike Smith

unread,
Oct 31, 2020, 6:32:48 PM10/31/20
to
On Saturday, 31 October 2020 at 22:23:20 UTC, Kerr-Mudd,John wrote:
<snip>
> Colour me cynical; but I think there'll be folk who won't/aren't taking it
> as seriously this time; certainly traffic hasn't reduced severely, there's
> grumbling about being told not to buy e.g. clothes from supermarkets.
>
> --
> Bah, and indeed, Humbug.

Slovakia is taking the Chinese approach, mass testing - They are using the quick test which has a 30% false all clear rate but as the guy says it still means they will identify 75% of the infected and quarantine them within 14 days. The Chinese and others who were hit by SARS version 1 seem to have taken the right approach, mainly by using a lot of testing, and are currently staying on top of it with outbreaks seldom affecting more than 100 people. Our testing system doesn't seem to be working, wasn't it supposed to world beating or was that something Trump said ? (they are all starting to look alike to me).

Cheers

Mike

Ahem A Rivet's Shot

unread,
Nov 1, 2020, 1:00:03 AM11/1/20
to
On Sat, 31 Oct 2020 15:32:47 -0700 (PDT)
Mike Smith <theother...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Saturday, 31 October 2020 at 22:23:20 UTC, Kerr-Mudd,John wrote:
> <snip>
> > Colour me cynical; but I think there'll be folk who won't/aren't taking
> > it as seriously this time; certainly traffic hasn't reduced severely,
> > there's grumbling about being told not to buy e.g. clothes from
> > supermarkets.
> >
> > --
> > Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
>
> Slovakia is taking the Chinese approach, mass testing - They are using

Taiwan has by far the best results in controlling it, they recently
announced 200 days without a domestic infection.

John Williamson

unread,
Nov 1, 2020, 4:49:50 AM11/1/20
to
There should be a delay of about a week, with another, smaller,
improvement over the following week or so after lockdown in new cases
being reported due to the slightly variable incubation period, a few
weeks before hospital admissions start to drop as the disease makes
progress in the reduced number of new cases, and a month or two before
it makes any difference to the reported death rates partly due to the
way they are calculated.

What has also been noted, but not widely published, is that the normal
number of 'flu cases has dropped, so saving lives for those due to die
of that, which has, in turn, reduced the number of excess deaths
compared to the expected number. The precautions of lockdown actually
reduce transmission of *all* the common infectious niggles we all get.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Brian Gaff (Sofa)

unread,
Nov 1, 2020, 6:58:25 AM11/1/20
to
Yes..
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-national-restrictions-from-5-november


The thing is that it also allows older people who volunteer to decide for
themselves if they want to carry on since without volunteers last time a
lot more people would have suffered being left adrift without a support
network.


On the other hand, is a month long enough for all students to get it and
lose the infection?
Also both sectors, children and students are the least likely to show
symptoms, but sadly can still pass it on. This is, I fear the virus secret
weapon which we ignore at our peril. The only true answer is to saew up the
country test everyone in one half then only let people in the other half in
if they do not have it. Not sure how you do that. anyone got a floating
country out there?
Brian
--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Tone" <em...@address.com> wrote in message
news:rnk0n7$jct$1...@dont-email.me...

Brian Gaff (Sofa)

unread,
Nov 1, 2020, 7:02:21 AM11/1/20
to
There are few options for any government though.
Total lock down means ruination of the economy, and the virus will come
back later. Do you gamble on the virus going away or having a vaccine? do
you accept an only partially tested vaccine for your key workers as in
Russia? Do you run tests on large bits of your population like in china?
Do you let the virus rip away, hardly a civilised approach, or do you adopt
the Donald Trump view of let the little bits do do their own thing as I do
not care about anything but me.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Richard Robinson" <rich...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:IrqdnYZNmNYpFwDC...@brightview.co.uk...

Brian Gaff (Sofa)

unread,
Nov 1, 2020, 7:07:27 AM11/1/20
to
I think the problem is all countries know their populations can only be
pushed so far, before the rule of law will break even if you put the army on
the streets like in France, who is going to start shooting citizens to save
lives. I mean, it dooes not compute. I guess anything that slows it down is
all we can do and one hopes each government knows its people by now.
There never has been anything like this in this modern era of mass
communications and travel after all. People cannot be treated as mushrooms,
ie put into the dark and fed shit any more.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Ahem A Rivet's Shot" <ste...@eircom.net> wrote in message
news:20201031174119.fd45...@eircom.net...

Brian Gaff (Sofa)

unread,
Nov 1, 2020, 7:14:04 AM11/1/20
to
Hopefully we now have what we did not have in March, a half decent up to
date test system. Back in march nobody knew how big the pool of infection
was. Although now its still not ideal, due to the low take up of the app,
it is a lot better and might point an arrow at least to the activities that
spread it to the very vulnerable. Interestingly, age is the key, still but
the medics can now more or less get those up to 75 through it, assuming no
extra health issues. Sadly though it has revealed the post viral damage to
organs and some neurological areas not expected before. We should not be
surprised though as Chicken pox/Shingles can damage organs and nerves and
many people do suffer from post viral syndrome even with otherwise well
known cold viruses. This is because viruses do kill cells and cannot do
anything else when the release the bits that they make in that cell. The
body tries to replace cells of course but as we age this is just not as
efficient.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Tease'n'Seize" <tease-and-seize@invalid> wrote in message
news:Y6ydnVab9OBgNwDC...@brightview.co.uk...

Brian Gaff (Sofa)

unread,
Nov 1, 2020, 7:15:46 AM11/1/20
to
Hmm, well I think that is why they are banning it. I notice you can still
buy over the internet and indeed use click and collect.

Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Ahem A Rivet's Shot" <ste...@eircom.net> wrote in message
news:20201101044947.a6c0...@eircom.net...

Richard Robinson

unread,
Nov 1, 2020, 9:19:41 AM11/1/20
to
Sam Plusnet said:
> On 31-Oct-20 16:03, Richard Robinson wrote:
>> Tone said:
>>> What is the point of a national lock-down if universities and schools
>>> are not closed?
>>
>> To demonstrate that words can mean anything you want, if you're
>> sufficiently in charge ?
>>
>>
> You can go anywhere (& do anything) you like, as long as it is within
> the United Kingdom.
>
> Is that what it means?

I don't think so, given the talk about Wales & Scotland wanting to keep
the scary forriners out. The nation in question might be England, but
I'm not hearing that I can go anywhere or do anything within that. I'm
still hearing what I've been hearing since March - breathing in air that
other people have just breathed out can make you ill.

Perhpas no-one is sufficiently in charge ?

> P.S. This "National" lockdown will not affect Scotland, Wales nor Norn
> Iron - but Hey! it's only words so who cares.

Millions and millions of people.

Richard Robinson

unread,
Nov 1, 2020, 9:32:37 AM11/1/20
to
Kerr-Mudd,John said:
> On Sat, 31 Oct 2020 21:30:51 GMT, Tease'n'Seize <tease-and-seize@invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> Mike Fleming wrote:
>>
>>> We're now on for far more deaths and
>>> far more economic damage than had we locked down in September.
>>
>> Welsh lockdown is only part-way through, so will take about a fortnight
>> for it to a) complete and b) collate results, but if you squint at the
>> graph, it doesn't seem to have nudged the graph down yet?
>>
>> <http://andyburns.uk/misc/Welsh%20firebreak.png>
>>
>
> Colour me cynical; but I think there'll be folk who won't/aren't taking it
> as seriously this time;

It's hardly suprising. A week or so ago, my brother asked me what 'tier'
we're in here. I told him, the national papers say Lancashire is in tier
3, the local paper had 2 articles; one was on the help for businesses in
tier 2 and the other was a prediction that we'll soon be put into tier 4
(in what I was hearing is a 3-tier system), but that I didn't really
give a shit because it'd all change again shortly.


Taking it seriously ? How ?

Richard Robinson

unread,
Nov 1, 2020, 9:34:19 AM11/1/20
to
Mike Smith said:
>
> wasn't it supposed to world beating

"the worldbeatings will continue until morale improves".

Jim S

unread,
Nov 1, 2020, 9:38:16 AM11/1/20
to
In article <rnk0n7$jct$1...@dont-email.me>, em...@address.com says...
>
> What is the point of a national lock-down if universities and schools
> are not closed?
>
> Tone

Lockdown speculation reaches fever pitch as Dominic Cummings spotted
filling car with petrol

--
Jim S

Richard Robinson

unread,
Nov 1, 2020, 9:42:16 AM11/1/20
to
Ahem A Rivet's Shot said:
> On Sat, 31 Oct 2020 15:32:47 -0700 (PDT)
> Mike Smith <theother...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, 31 October 2020 at 22:23:20 UTC, Kerr-Mudd,John wrote:
>> <snip>
>> > Colour me cynical; but I think there'll be folk who won't/aren't taking
>> > it as seriously this time; certainly traffic hasn't reduced severely,
>> > there's grumbling about being told not to buy e.g. clothes from
>> > supermarkets.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
>>
>> Slovakia is taking the Chinese approach, mass testing - They are using
>
> Taiwan has by far the best results in controlling it, they recently
> announced 200 days without a domestic infection.

IS NZ still doing okay ?

Islands, see ? They've got this useful physical isolation thing going
for them ... um. oh. Hang on ...

I saw a piece from someone who flew to Australia recently. No more than
50 people on a fullsized plane, masks and shields all the time unless
they're actually eating the meal, and when the plane touches down they
are not left to wander through the public systems, they're herded
straight onto a bus and taken to a quarantine hotel with soldiers on the
door to make damn sure they stay there for the full fortnight.

Which is pointless unless you have the will to make the thing go away
inside those borders. Seems like some do, some don't.

I wish our government did.

The Nomad

unread,
Nov 1, 2020, 9:47:02 AM11/1/20
to
:-)

Avpx

--
"You know," said Windle, "it's a wonderful afterlife."
(Reaper Man)
14:45:01 up 17:02, 10 users, load average: 5.41, 5.65, 4.87

Chris Elvidge

unread,
Nov 1, 2020, 10:49:28 AM11/1/20
to

Nicholas D. Richards

unread,
Nov 1, 2020, 12:42:49 PM11/1/20
to
In article <MPG.3a08d82da...@news.virginmedia.com>, Jim S
<j...@jimXscott.co.uk> on Sun, 1 Nov 2020 at 14:37:32 awoke Nicholas
from his slumbers and wrote
Did he test his eyes before he put the nozzle in the car, otherwise he
might have got petrol in his shoes.

Actually the speculation cannot be true, his wife does not have two
birthdays.
--
0sterc@tcher -

"Oů sont les neiges d'antan?"

Mike Causer

unread,
Nov 1, 2020, 2:24:57 PM11/1/20
to
On Sun, 1 Nov 2020 17:41:37 +0000
"Nicholas D. Richards" <nich...@salmiron.com> wrote:

> Actually the speculation cannot be true, his wife does not have two
> birthdays.

HMtQ does, so shouldn't Mzz Cummings be entitled to the same?


Mike

Jim S

unread,
Nov 1, 2020, 3:17:56 PM11/1/20
to
In article <rnmle7$p4m$1...@dont-email.me>, ch...@mshome.net says...
There are probably people reading this who do not understand you using
'Newsthump' as a reliable attribution.

--
Jim S

Kerr-Mudd,John

unread,
Nov 1, 2020, 5:22:56 PM11/1/20
to
On Sun, 01 Nov 2020 19:24:56 GMT, Mike Causer <m.r.c...@gogglemail.com>
wrote:
She's some kind of nob, AIU, but not *that* close to HMQ.

Sam Plusnet

unread,
Nov 1, 2020, 6:12:06 PM11/1/20
to
On 01-Nov-20 12:14, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:

> Hopefully we now have what we did not have in March, a half decent up to
> date test system.
<snip>

That is true.
However we now do not have what we _did_ have in March. A population
which recognised the situation, and were prepared to do the right thing
because it was common sense to do so.


--
Sam Plusnet

Sam Plusnet

unread,
Nov 1, 2020, 6:14:17 PM11/1/20
to
We tend to think the "Law of Unintended Consequences" always produces
bad results.

--
Sam Plusnet

Sam Plusnet

unread,
Nov 1, 2020, 6:16:14 PM11/1/20
to
On 01-Nov-20 14:34, Richard Robinson wrote:
> Mike Smith said:
>>
>> wasn't it supposed to world beating
>
> "the worldbeatings will continue until morale improves".
>
>
<like>

--
Sam Plusnet

Sam Plusnet

unread,
Nov 1, 2020, 6:19:14 PM11/1/20
to
If you wanted to determine the point in time when many members of the
great unwashed stopped taking things seriously...

--
Sam Plusnet

Nicholas D. Richards

unread,
Nov 1, 2020, 7:08:06 PM11/1/20
to
In article <XnsAC68E3ADFC...@144.76.35.198>, Kerr-Mudd,John
<nots...@127.0.0.1> on Sun, 1 Nov 2020 at 22:22:55 awoke Nicholas
from his slumbers and wrote
>On Sun, 01 Nov 2020 19:24:56 GMT, Mike Causer <m.r.c...@gogglemail.com>
>wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 1 Nov 2020 17:41:37 +0000
>> "Nicholas D. Richards" <nich...@salmiron.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Actually the speculation cannot be true, his wife does not have two
>>> birthdays.
>>
>> HMtQ does, so shouldn't Mzz Cummings be entitled to the same?
>>
>>
>She's some kind of nob,

Naa, her husband is some kind of knob

>AIU, but not *that* close to HMQ.
>
>
>

--

Nicholas D. Richards

unread,
Nov 1, 2020, 7:08:06 PM11/1/20
to
In article <bjHnH.11957$wxf....@fx25.ams4>, Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com>
on Sun, 1 Nov 2020 at 23:14:15 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and
wrote
On the wireless, recently, I heard that there is some evidence that
viruses have "gentlemen's agreements". You catch a virus and the others
stand back until you have fought off that virus and then the next one
steps in. Apparently 'flu viruses stand back if a potential victim has
CORVID-19. I cannot quote a source, as I was doing something else at the
time of the broadcast.

Tone

unread,
Nov 1, 2020, 7:26:00 PM11/1/20
to
Cummings not marrying a nob would not compute.

"In December 2011, Cummings married Mary Wakefield, sister of his friend
Jack Wakefield, former director of the Firtash Foundation. Mary
Wakefield has worked at the weekly magazine The Spectator for decades,
since Boris Johnson was editor, and is now commissioning editor. She is
the daughter of Sir Humphry Wakefield, 2nd Baronet, of Chillingham
Castle in Northumberland. Her mother is Katherine Wakefield, née Baring,
elder daughter of Evelyn Baring, 1st Baron Howick of Glendale."

Whackypedia

Tone

Peter

unread,
Nov 2, 2020, 7:30:49 AM11/2/20
to
Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote in news:RnHnH.11959$wxf....@fx25.ams4:
I've just finished reading a series of lockdown eassays by Zadie Smith. In
a postscript she writes about contempt as a virus, and as an example of a
particularly british symptom she describes Cummings' television interview
from the Rose Garden, when his mouth was uttering his excuses but his eyes
were saying "why are you plebs bothering me with this nonsense."

(The USAnian example was the policeman with his knee on George Floyd's
neck).

--
Peter
-----

Richard Robinson

unread,
Nov 2, 2020, 10:40:00 AM11/2/20
to

Richard Robinson

unread,
Nov 2, 2020, 10:45:08 AM11/2/20
to

Richard Robinson

unread,
Nov 5, 2020, 10:13:03 AM11/5/20
to
Znep said:
> In uk.rec.sheds, (Richard Robinson) wrote in
>>Mike Smith said:
>>>
>>> wasn't it supposed to world beating
>>
>>"the worldbeatings will continue until morale improves".
>
> I may steal that. Yours?

Well, it's based on original statements from the Japanese Army Allegedly
and BoJo the Clown, of course. But it's all my own work apart from the
bits that aren't.
0 new messages