DIR Fundamentals in the UK

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Huw Porter

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Sep 30, 2003, 10:15:19 AM9/30/03
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Well, I was back in Portland over the weekend for DIR-Fundamentals,
taught by Andy Kerslake and assisted behind the video camera by John
Grogan. And it was intense. Over 24 hours of instruction packed in
to a weekend-and-an-evening, with over four hours in the water.

But - The 'DIR Baseball Bat' *really* couldn't be further from the
truth. Obviously, Andy and John do believe that there is a right way
- and recommendations were made, many things were discussed, 'The Bar'
was shown, but harsh criticism came exclusively from people talking
about *their own* performance on the video.

Having done a lot of research over the past couple of years, there was
nothing much in the academics that was a surprise, but my two
team-mates were basically new to the whole set of concepts, and found
it mindblowing.

My kit passed (at this level) easily enough. Yep, even the homebrew
bp/wing. :-) But then I've been heading in this direction for a
couple of years. I lengthened the crotch strap, retied a couple of
knots and repositioned a couple of D-rings slightly, but that was it.
Contrary to popular belief, there is nothing on my rig that says
'Halcyon' (OK, apart from gaiters ;-)) but it is adequately
streamlined, and there is nothing there preventing me doing the
skills.

The video really is the key, and there is no arguing with it - you
watch what you do, and you think 'I need to do that better!' The
review on Saturday was a decidedly sobering experience, none of us
looked as good as we thought we did, none of us were as horizontal in
the water as we thought we were.

My main realisation of the weekend is that it is all about the team.
When (my) focus shifted from trying to demonstrate skills to the
instructor/camera, to trying to do everything as a team things went
much better. And it all works...

And I managed to raise my game enough on Sunday to pass. :-) As far
as skills go, with the upgrade to a twinset (and assuming I can do a
twins shutdown as well as the single drill) I could try for Tech 1.

And I didn't even fall over in the car park. ;-)

Cheers,
Huw

Steve Jones

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Sep 30, 2003, 10:27:21 AM9/30/03
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"Huw Porter" <huwp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8f80c64f.03093...@posting.google.com

>> And I managed to raise my game enough on Sunday to pass. :-) As far
> as skills go, with the upgrade to a twinset (and assuming I can do a
> twins shutdown as well as the single drill) I could try for Tech 1.
>

><snipped>

Congrats Huw. All you need to do now is find out how to transport a twin
set on the rail network, or get Stelios to hire you a bigger car.

Steve

--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Imorital

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Sep 30, 2003, 10:31:36 AM9/30/03
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> Well, I was back in Portland over the weekend for DIR-Fundamentals,
> taught by Andy Kerslake and assisted behind the video camera by John
> Grogan. And it was intense. Over 24 hours of instruction packed in
> to a weekend-and-an-evening, with over four hours in the water.

Huw, the course sounds most interesting (as it your web-site, BTW). Thanks
for the post.

> But - The 'DIR Baseball Bat' *really* couldn't be further from the
> truth.

That's interesting - are you saying that it would be possible to pass the
course using an OMS-bungeed wing?

<snip>

> The video really is the key, and there is no arguing with it - you
> watch what you do, and you think 'I need to do that better!' The
> review on Saturday was a decidedly sobering experience, none of us
> looked as good as we thought we did, none of us were as horizontal in
> the water as we thought we were.

The camera idea sounds like a good experience - and perhaps something that
other agencies/instrictors could look at using as a training aid.

Cheers
Matt.


Nigel Hewitt

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Sep 30, 2003, 10:44:11 AM9/30/03
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Imorital wrote:
> The camera idea sounds like a good experience - and perhaps something
> that other agencies/instrictors could look at using as a training aid.

It's getting more common. I expect we can ensure we have cameras
on hand for the UKRS#1 Rescue course with the added bonus of not
only seeing your own errors but being pilloried on the web.

I keep looking at computer dumps of my attempts to do a really
nice free ascent and wishing they looked like the blob ones. It's
the same thing really. <sigh> The record does not improve over
time like the memories do.

nigelH
<note to self>Take bulk eraser if going near Frank.</note>


Huw Porter

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Sep 30, 2003, 11:13:10 AM9/30/03
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"Imorital" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:blc442$aagpt$1...@ID-203763.news.uni-berlin.de

> > Well, I was back in Portland over the weekend for DIR-Fundamentals,
> > taught by Andy Kerslake and assisted behind the video camera by John
> > Grogan. And it was intense. Over 24 hours of instruction packed in
> > to a weekend-and-an-evening, with over four hours in the water.
>
> Huw, the course sounds most interesting (as it your web-site, BTW). Thanks
> for the post.
>
> > But - The 'DIR Baseball Bat' *really* couldn't be further from the
> > truth.
>
> That's interesting - are you saying that it would be possible to pass the
> course using an OMS-bungeed wing?

Well, no - there are a few basic equipment requirements which are not
negociable, bungee wings are one of them. You do have to go along with
the basic premise. :-)

But you could for example turn up in an OMS single bladder wing up to 80
lbs lift with the bungees removed. And if you can do the skills (the
video never lies) then you would pass. :-) And if you wanted to
discuss why they require no bungee, they happily would, without bashing
you over the head with anything. ;-)

> <snip>
>
> > The video really is the key, and there is no arguing with it - you
> > watch what you do, and you think 'I need to do that better!' The
> > review on Saturday was a decidedly sobering experience, none of us
> > looked as good as we thought we did, none of us were as horizontal in
> > the water as we thought we were.
>
> The camera idea sounds like a good experience - and perhaps something that
> other agencies/instrictors could look at using as a training aid.

Yep, it was worth it for the video viewing alone.

Cheers,
Huw
--
http://www.huwporter.com

Huw Porter

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Sep 30, 2003, 11:15:48 AM9/30/03
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"Steve Jones" <steve...@wda.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c24f61908c52521f8f4...@mygate.mailgate.org

> "Huw Porter" <huwp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:8f80c64f.03093...@posting.google.com
>
> >> And I managed to raise my game enough on Sunday to pass. :-) As far
> > as skills go, with the upgrade to a twinset (and assuming I can do a
> > twins shutdown as well as the single drill) I could try for Tech 1.
> >
> ><snipped>
>
> Congrats Huw. All you need to do now is find out how to transport a twin
> set on the rail network, or get Stelios to hire you a bigger car.

I got funny enough looks taking my stage on the train that time! Can
you imagine walking up the aisle looking for a seat in a twinset... :-)

Bardo

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Sep 30, 2003, 11:22:12 AM9/30/03
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"Imorital" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:blc442$aagpt$1...@ID-203763.news.uni-berlin.de...

>
> > The video really is the key, and there is no arguing with it - you
> > watch what you do, and you think 'I need to do that better!' The
> > review on Saturday was a decidedly sobering experience, none of us
> > looked as good as we thought we did, none of us were as horizontal in
> > the water as we thought we were.
>
> The camera idea sounds like a good experience - and perhaps something that
> other agencies/instrictors could look at using as a training aid.

Hehe. It's something Frank does too with his 'Twinset Fundamentals' course.
Myself and three others suffered the humilation of being filmed in a pool
two weeks ago whilst trying to frog kick backwards - suffice to see we just
looked like a group of lemmings continuously clonking our heads on the side
of the pool!!!! ;-)

That said, it was an excellent learning tool. You naturally assume that your
position in the water is horizontal but actually seeing yourself on video
soon shatters this illusion. Whilst I'm pleased to say that I didn't look
totally hopeless (and I'm sure Frank will comment on this!), the whole
experience did serve as a sobering reminder that you never stop learning!
It's a shame that I can share the video with you guys - then you could all
have a good larf at our expense!

BTW - I did manage to complete my IANTD/TDI Advanced Nitrox + Deco course!
Thanks to Frank and Zak for an entertaining couple of weekends! I can
remember the last time I was so knackered/challenged/humilated!!! :-)


Eddie

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Sep 30, 2003, 11:29:40 AM9/30/03
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"Huw Porter" <huwp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8f80c64f.03093...@posting.google.com...

> Well, I was back in Portland over the weekend for DIR-Fundamentals,

DIR Fundamentals????? What is it???? Something to do with grassy
knolls??????

Eddie
:-))))))))


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Lazarus X

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Sep 30, 2003, 11:33:35 AM9/30/03
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On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:13:10 +0000 (UTC), "Huw Porter"
<huwp...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>"Imorital" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
>news:blc442$aagpt$1...@ID-203763.news.uni-berlin.de
>
>> > Well, I was back in Portland over the weekend for DIR-Fundamentals,
>> > taught by Andy Kerslake and assisted behind the video camera by John
>> > Grogan. And it was intense. Over 24 hours of instruction packed in
>> > to a weekend-and-an-evening, with over four hours in the water.
>>
>> Huw, the course sounds most interesting (as it your web-site, BTW). Thanks
>> for the post.
>>
>> > But - The 'DIR Baseball Bat' *really* couldn't be further from the
>> > truth.
>>
>> That's interesting - are you saying that it would be possible to pass the
>> course using an OMS-bungeed wing?
>
>Well, no - there are a few basic equipment requirements which are not
>negociable, bungee wings are one of them. You do have to go along with
>the basic premise. :-)

So you are saying that turning up with an Inspiration is probably a
bad thing?

Laz

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A foolproof method for sculpting an Elephant:
First, get a huge block of marble. Then, chip away
everything that doesn't look like an Elephant.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Change "nospam" to "ntlworld" to reply.

Bardo

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Sep 30, 2003, 11:40:11 AM9/30/03
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"Eddie" <Ed...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:blc7h4$9bj$1...@titan.btinternet.com...

>
> "Huw Porter" <huwp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:8f80c64f.03093...@posting.google.com...
> > Well, I was back in Portland over the weekend for DIR-Fundamentals,
>
> DIR Fundamentals????? What is it???? Something to do with grassy
> knolls??????

DIR = Doing It Right

A system of diving developed my American cave divers that aims to simplify
and standardise kit configuration. It teaches good team work, preparation
and awareness and is very much a holistic system - ie. simply having your
kit configured in a DIR fashion does not make you a DIR diver!

DIR-F / DIR-Fundamentals = entry level course designed to teach you the
fundamentals of the DIR system. It teaches you about kit configuration as
well as the skills needed to start you on your way down the DIR path.


Bardo

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Sep 30, 2003, 11:40:45 AM9/30/03
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"Lazarus X" <laza...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:5c16b654ff958652...@news.teranews.com...

> On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:13:10 +0000 (UTC), "Huw Porter"
> <huwp...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >"Imorital" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> >news:blc442$aagpt$1...@ID-203763.news.uni-berlin.de
> >
> >> > Well, I was back in Portland over the weekend for DIR-Fundamentals,
> >> > taught by Andy Kerslake and assisted behind the video camera by John
> >> > Grogan. And it was intense. Over 24 hours of instruction packed in
> >> > to a weekend-and-an-evening, with over four hours in the water.
> >>
> >> Huw, the course sounds most interesting (as it your web-site, BTW).
Thanks
> >> for the post.
> >>
> >> > But - The 'DIR Baseball Bat' *really* couldn't be further from the
> >> > truth.
> >>
> >> That's interesting - are you saying that it would be possible to pass
the
> >> course using an OMS-bungeed wing?
> >
> >Well, no - there are a few basic equipment requirements which are not
> >negociable, bungee wings are one of them. You do have to go along with
> >the basic premise. :-)
>
> So you are saying that turning up with an Inspiration is probably a
> bad thing?

LOL! Especially if it's got a 'Halcyon' logo stuck on it! ;-)


Nigel Hewitt

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Sep 30, 2003, 11:39:15 AM9/30/03
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Huw Porter wrote:
> I got funny enough looks taking my stage on the train that time! Can
> you imagine walking up the aisle looking for a seat in a twinset...
> :-)

I've done it on a motorbike and a bus.
Yes you get funny looks getting on a bus
in twins but that's their problem not yours.

nigelH


Alasdair Allan

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Sep 30, 2003, 11:55:37 AM9/30/03
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Nigel Hewitt wrote:
> Imorital wrote:
> > The camera idea sounds like a good experience - and perhaps something
> > that other agencies/instrictors could look at using as a training aid.
>
> It's getting more common. I expect we can ensure we have cameras
> on hand for the UKRS#1 Rescue course with the added bonus of not
> only seeing your own errors but being pilloried on the web.

MPEG, MPEG, MPEG.... Wheee!

Al.

Lazarus X

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Sep 30, 2003, 12:11:09 PM9/30/03
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I tried to put my Halcyon wing on it. Surprise surprise, the two were
incompatible ;-)

Anders Arnholm

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Sep 30, 2003, 12:32:48 PM9/30/03
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Huw Porter <huwp...@hotmail.com> skriver:

> But - The 'DIR Baseball Bat' *really* couldn't be further from the
> truth. Obviously, Andy and John do believe that there is a right way

I'm sure that the DIR Baseball bat is aimed that the die hard
rec.scuda enething else will kill you people.

Congratualtions on the course, I'm sure you learned a loot of good
things during the weekend.

/ Anders
--
http://anders.arnholm.nu/ Keep on Balping

Eddie

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Sep 30, 2003, 1:52:25 PM9/30/03
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"Bardo" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:blc86l$aire5$1...@ID-115313.news.uni-berlin.de...

> A system of diving developed my American cave divers that aims to simplify
> and standardise kit configuration. It teaches good team work, preparation
> and awareness and is very much a holistic system - ie. simply having your
> kit configured in a DIR fashion does not make you a DIR diver!

Ahhhh! Just as I thought. A little to do with grassy knolls and the modern
tendency to follow a team approach and take any individuality out of our
sport in the chase for the good of the whole. Is T Bliar a member of your
org? ;-))))))

Ed

Zak

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Sep 30, 2003, 2:01:31 PM9/30/03
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On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:22:12 +0100, "Bardo" <m...@privacy.net> wrote:

>
>
>BTW - I did manage to complete my IANTD/TDI Advanced Nitrox + Deco course!
>Thanks to Frank and Zak for an entertaining couple of weekends! I can
>remember the last time I was so knackered/challenged/humilated!!! :-)
>

<cough> the boy done well ;)

Practise practise practise !

Dale Gray

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Sep 30, 2003, 4:38:54 PM9/30/03
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So what is correct for cave diving in Florida must also be correct for ice
diving in Norway???????

"Eddie" <Ed...@btinternet.com> wrote in message

news:blcfso$b46$1...@hercules.btinternet.com...

Iain Smith

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Sep 30, 2003, 4:55:54 PM9/30/03
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> So what is correct for cave diving in Florida must also be
> correct for ice diving in Norway???????

Well, two of the more experienced participants on the central DIR list are,
in fact, Scandinavian (?Swedish) ice divers, so it would appear that they,
at least, find no great problem with transferring the system between those
environments.

What did you have in mind as being problematic?

Iain


Dale Gray

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Sep 30, 2003, 6:18:39 PM9/30/03
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It appears I must apologies for the Norway comment, as I know little about
ice diving in Norway.

It was merely a flippant way of laughing at the concept of only one kit
configuration being correct for all applications. This is obviously false.

Take for example British Cave Diving.

DIR may laugh at the kit set up of British Cave Divers, but theirs doesn't
work in the environment. So if there is one exception there are more.

--
Dale

http://www.gray.at
"Iain Smith" <iainm...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
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Iain Smith

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Sep 30, 2003, 6:29:16 PM9/30/03
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> It was merely a flippant way of laughing at the concept of
> only one kit configuration being correct for all
> applications. This is obviously false.

It's also incorrect to suggest that DIR promotes such.

> Take for example British Cave Diving.
>
> DIR may laugh at the kit set up of British Cave Divers, but
> theirs doesn't work in the environment. So if there is one
> exception there are more.

You mean, of course, "may be". OTOH, British cave diving is the example that
gets repeatedly trotted out as an example of DIR "not working" (although I
am lead to believe that certain elements within the CDG are an awful lot
closer to DIR than the detractors would like to admit. Unfortunately, I lack
the detailed knowledge to discuss that). Maybe there are other situations
where significant variation from DIR is essential. Not sure what they are,
though.

Iain


Alasdair Allan

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Sep 30, 2003, 7:57:20 PM9/30/03
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Iain Smith wrote:
> Maybe there are other situations where significant variation from DIR is
> essential. Not sure what they are, though.

Err, wreck diving off a boat? Thats pretty much the obvious one.

Al.

Simon

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Oct 1, 2003, 12:28:27 AM10/1/03
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> DIR may laugh at the kit set up of British Cave Divers, but theirs doesn't
> work in the environment. So if there is one exception there are more.

I've done DIR fundamentals and am pretty much DIR.

I don't really care what the CDG do, and would definitely not comment
on it as I know nothing about that kind of sump diving (or cave diving
for that matter) - which I am sure you will agree is pretty
specialist. There is a DIR sidemaount system apparently, but I don't
know the details.

All I can say is.... DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ ON THE
INTERNET!

I have found most real DIR divers (and to be DIR you need GUE
training, having a long hose and shouting a lot does not qualify) to
be more open minded about diving than their critics. For instance,
Martin Lorenzo (one of my DIR-F instructors) has the greatest respect
(other than his hand over hand ascent technique ;o)) for John Bennett.

Personnally, I had done around 400 dives and had certs from PADI, ANDI
and IANTD up to Trimix when I did DIF-F. Had also done the whole
stupid diving thing e.g. 60M full penetration air dives with single
tanks etc. I've dived regularily with CCR divers (including
homebuilders).

I do not believe that DIR is the only way or that someone who is not
DIR is unsafe. However, I do believe (actually, I'll go as far a
saying 'know') that someone who is DIR (again, has to have GUE
training) is likely to be safer and more skilled than someone of an
equivalent dive experience who is not... which is what turned me on to
the whole thing in the first place i.e. feeling rather humble in the
water when diving with someone with significatly less 'experience'
than me, but had done Tech 1.

Outside of cave diving, GUE is probably the only agency that will
teach you to fin properly, a fairly fundamental (excuse the pun) skill
overlooked by pretty much every other (non-cave specific) agency.

Anyway, DIR is not a religion, it is just diving. The freaks annoy me
as much as anyone... well, maybe more because it reflects on me now.

PS: Huw, sounds like you had a similar experience to what we did in
Sydney. Good isn't it!

Iain Smith

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Oct 1, 2003, 1:29:56 AM10/1/03
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Err, clearly not, given that virtually all diving in the UK by the various
DIR groups is wreck diving off boats. Not to mention somewhat bigger
projects like the Britannic.

Try again?

Iain


Dale Gray

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Oct 1, 2003, 1:30:09 AM10/1/03
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So what you are saying is that you agree with me.

As the only bit about DIR that annoys anyone with free will is that it is
their opinion that they are write and everyone else is wrong.

--
Dale

http://www.gray.at
"Simon" <snau...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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Iain Smith

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Oct 1, 2003, 1:33:15 AM10/1/03
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> All I can say is.... DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ ON THE
> INTERNET!
>
> I have found most real DIR divers (and to be DIR you need GUE
> training

Simon,

I'm glad those two sentences came one after the other. GUE training _helps_,
it is not mandatory. DIR was around before GUE was. It's just like Halcyon
kit - it is not incompatible with DIR and can help a great deal. But it
isn't a prerequisite.

Iain


Iain Smith

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Oct 1, 2003, 1:46:31 AM10/1/03
to
"Dale Gray" wrote:

> So what you are saying is that you agree with me.
>
> As the only bit about DIR that annoys anyone with free will
> is that it is
> their opinion that they are write and everyone else is wrong.

Dale,

If you do not believe that you are right to dive the way you dive, why are
you doing it? By definition if you believe that you are right then to a
greater or lesser extent everyone else is wrong.

Iain


Dale Gray

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Oct 1, 2003, 2:00:38 AM10/1/03
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Yes nearly all DIR in England is Wreck Diving at Sea, using an American Cave
Diving System. Is it only me that can see the problem?

Isn't it fortunate that most American Cave Dive sites have deep water
entries, or they would have banned releasable weights as well.

I have 2 kit set ups (3 if you count the set I dive in as a PADI DM - so my
kit matches the students)

I have my open water kit, which is back mounted, with shoulder breaks in the
harness, releasable weight belt, though double bucked to reduce mistakes and
has 2nd inflation system (i.e. suit and wing) - it has bungee but please
don't start that argument.

I have my cave set, which is side mounts, solid harness, weight blocks as
part of the harness (the only way to release is 10 mins with a very sharp
knife) and no 2nd inflation (i.e. just suit)

It is horses for courses, change the environment you change your kit. If you
are incapable of handling a kit change then retrain until you are or stay
out of the other environment.

SO AMERICAN CAVE DIVERS GO HOME
--
Dale

http://www.gray.at
"Iain Smith" <iainm...@btinternet.com> wrote in message

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Unknown

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Oct 1, 2003, 2:13:25 AM10/1/03
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On 30 Sep 2003 21:28:27 -0700, snau...@hotmail.com (Simon) wrote:


>
>I have found most real DIR divers (and to be DIR you need GUE
>training, having a long hose and shouting a lot does not qualify) to
>be more open minded about diving than their critics. For instance,
>Martin Lorenzo (one of my DIR-F instructors) has the greatest respect
>(other than his hand over hand ascent technique ;o)) for John Bennett.
>
>Personnally, I had done around 400 dives and had certs from PADI, ANDI
>and IANTD up to Trimix when I did DIF-F. Had also done the whole
>stupid diving thing e.g. 60M full penetration air dives with single
>tanks etc. I've dived regularily with CCR divers (including
>homebuilders).
>

Ooh goody, can I do a DIR course with the Inspiration then?

Pete S.

Iain Smith

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Oct 1, 2003, 2:16:00 AM10/1/03
to
> Yes nearly all DIR in England is Wreck Diving at Sea, using
> an American Cave Diving System. Is it only me that can see
> the problem?

Dale - if you want to discuss something, it helps to know enough about it
not to make a fool of yourself. DIR is _not_ a "cave diving system". It's a
diving system which can be applied to (virtually) every environment. I'll
conceed CDG-type diving as I know very little about it. However, to suggest
that DIR doesn't work for UK wreck diving is simply wrong.

> Isn't it fortunate that most American Cave Dive sites have
> deep water entries, or they would have banned releasable
> weights as well.

Releasable weights is a topic of itself. The only thing I can ditch on my
DIR-compliant rig is my canister. Fortunately I don't need to as I'm
entirely capable of swimming the entire set up. The moment you start doing
any significant amount of deco, I believe that ditchable weight becomes a
serious health hazard.

> It is horses for courses, change the environment you change
> your kit.

Absolutely. But what on earth is wrong with a standard basis of which to
build everything else. Consistency can never be anything other than
desirable.

> If you are incapable of handling a kit change then retrain
> until you are or stay out of the other environment.
>
> SO AMERICAN CAVE DIVERS GO HOME

And British bigots open your eyes and minds.

Iain


Dale Gray

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Oct 1, 2003, 2:24:39 AM10/1/03
to
I believe that your kit configuration depends on 3 variables
1. environment (horses for courses)
2. personal choice (you have to be comfortable and confident)
3. your buddy if applicable (if you feel a buddy is required then your
buddy has to be able to handle your kit - if they can't your diving solo)

I also believe that any situation should be approached with an open mind,
having done all the research and training possible, but in the end you make
a decision and you live or die by it.

Hence I have made decisions that I am comfortable with, my advice is to make
your own, not follow someone else's. If you don't feel capable of viewing
all the options then you should dive with an instructor until you are
--
Dale

http://www.gray.at
"Iain Smith" <iainm...@btinternet.com> wrote in message

news:HSteb.3418$RU4....@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net...

Dale Gray

unread,
Oct 1, 2003, 2:32:43 AM10/1/03
to
Sorry Iain

But in my humble uninformed opinion, any system that says it has all the
answers only stops its followers from thinking for themselves.

This is the only thing wrong about DIR. In fairness it the only thing wrong
with all the training agencies, it is just that DIR is the most vocal so
gets the slagging

--
Dale

http://www.gray.at
"Iain Smith" <iainm...@btinternet.com> wrote in message

news:giueb.3430$RU4....@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net...

Bardo

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Oct 1, 2003, 2:43:11 AM10/1/03
to

<Pete S.> wrote in message
news:hurknvsobnaav3vbg...@4ax.com...

Try it and see what they say when you turn up at a DIR-F course with your
turtle, Pete - you could sell tickets to something that entertaining! ;-)


Nigel Hewitt

unread,
Oct 1, 2003, 2:50:10 AM10/1/03
to
Huw Porter <huwp...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Well, I was back in Portland over the weekend for DIR-Fundamentals,

It was quite nice to be able to talk sense on DIR for
a while but we passed closing time on the zoo and the
animals are out.

<sigh>

Like a bunch of people I think the DIR holistic
approach to team/gear/gas has its place but some
of its supporters are over zealous and enjoy shouting
'stroke' at anything that can be seen to divert a
fraction from holy writ. While they are loose on the
web they are the loudest cry and they 'own' DIR so
the cool calm voice will never be heard. I can quite
understand people fighting back.

nigelh
stroke with a shovel


Nigel Hewitt

unread,
Oct 1, 2003, 2:54:54 AM10/1/03
to
Bardo <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> <Pete S.> wrote

>>
>> Ooh goody, can I do a DIR course with the Inspiration then?
>
> Try it and see what they say when you turn up at a DIR-F course with
> your turtle, Pete - you could sell tickets to something that
> entertaining! ;-)

Don't be mean. They thought about my inverted rig
carefully before they said they couldn't see how
it could work on the course. Don't mistake GUE for
the manic stroke shouters on rec.scuba

nigelH


Frank Bruce

unread,
Oct 1, 2003, 3:16:06 AM10/1/03
to
"Dale Gray" <da...@gray.at> wrote in message
news:bldseb$fhc$1...@sparta.btinternet.com...

> But in my humble uninformed opinion, any system that says it has all the
> answers only stops its followers from thinking for themselves.

Then you _aren't_ talking about DIR, but the personallities that you have
come into contact with and ego's involved. Firstly I'm not DIR - I'm an
Inspiration mixed gas diver and Inspiration Instuctor. That being said I
teach a Twinset-F course (you'll note the similarity in the name to DIR-F).
This last two weekends I taught this integrated into IANTD & TDI Adv Nitrox
and TDI Deco Procedures.
There are equipment requirements; these are 18l backgas and 5l stage.

Needless to say four very different twinsets turned up, hoses routed
differently, inverted set, bungee wings & BCDs you name it... it was there.
They left with four very similar looking rigs - not because I dictated what
you must do - but because I took the time and explained the failure points,
reasons for eqipment choices and why things go where they do. They thought
about it and then they made the changes they wanted to. They adjusted and
balanced the rigs and completed skills and fin techniques none thought they
could do - two of them had never managed a valve shutdown on the previous
setup, managed with ease in sub 45 seconds, and four solo divers very much
became a team.

> This is the only thing wrong about DIR. In fairness it the only thing
wrong
> with all the training agencies, it is just that DIR is the most vocal so
> gets the slagging

Don't blame the agencies, for _cheap_ instruction running to minimum times
and costs - you get exactly what you are prepared to pay for.

> Dale


Jason

unread,
Oct 1, 2003, 3:43:24 AM10/1/03
to
On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:29:16 +0100, Iain Smith wrote:

> You mean, of course, "may be". OTOH, British cave diving is the example that
> gets repeatedly trotted out as an example of DIR "not working" (although I
> am lead to believe that certain elements within the CDG are an awful lot
> closer to DIR than the detractors would like to admit. Unfortunately, I lack

I would be very surprised to find any members of the CDG diving without
helmets and helmet lights for a start. Much of British cave diving uses
sidemounts, so forget the long hose around the neck. Some people don't
have any provision for being able to share air through restrictions.

Jason

--
http://www.scuba-addict.co.uk/ for Aussie diving reports including
the wrecks of the SS Yongala, Lady Bowen and the HMAS Swan

Jason

unread,
Oct 1, 2003, 4:40:06 AM10/1/03
to
On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 06:29:56 +0100, Iain Smith wrote:

> Err, clearly not, given that virtually all diving in the UK by the
> various DIR groups is wreck diving off boats. Not to mention somewhat
> bigger projects like the Britannic.

And how many DIR groups are there actually in the UK? And what sort of
diving are they doing? From what I've read, it's not the DIR groups who
are doing the really adventurous stuff over here. They're limiting
themselves to about 70m with relatively short bottom times. In short,
fairly bog standard trimix diving of the sort that many on the group do.

Several of them also got bent last year following DIR deco procedures.
Makes you wonder if the colder water has got anything to do with that. Or
the fact that the guys over here aren't all superfit, triathlon runners.

But the issue isn't whether you can use the methods. It's whether they're
optimal. Millions of boat dives have been done over the years using the
bog standard reg, octopus, BCD, single tank, weightbelt setup. But it's
not DIR, so by implication it's the wrong way to do it. That's what comes
of choosing a deliberately confrontational name for your methods.

The fact that it originated from cave diving, and deep cave diving at that,
must bias some of the methods. If you started out as a wreck diver, I
don't think you would do everything exactly the same. For me, the obvious
difference between the two is that in a cave, you're kitting up either in
flat water, or on dry land. There are people around to help you. On the
deep stuff there are safety divers in the water to help you. Getting in
and out of your kit isn't a priority at all.

On a UK dive boat, there's usually no crew apart from the skipper. You may
have to dekit in the water, in a current, in a swell, with force 4/5 chop.
Then you have to pass your kit up. Or you might be first up the ladder,
have no-one to help you and have to get out of your kit fast to help your
buddy. Often the benches aren't very good either.

The breakless harness and the round steel bottomed cylinders with no
boots, which actually very few Americans use in the sea, really don't
help. And I've watched people who swear by the system struggle to get out
of their kit. Usually it's comical, sometimes it's dangerous.

Other DIR methods haven't survived the UK wreck diving test. Very few
people still rear mount their reels. And I don't think anyone who bought a
Halcyon rebreather over here is still using it.

Jason

--
http://www.scuba-addict.co.uk/ for Aussie diving reports including

the Coral Sea, Ningaloo reef, the Solitaries and Byron Bay

Huw Porter

unread,
Oct 1, 2003, 5:07:21 AM10/1/03
to
"Nigel Hewitt" <nig...@REMOVETHISnigelhewitt.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bldtf2$h07$1...@hercules.btinternet.com

> Huw Porter <huwp...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Well, I was back in Portland over the weekend for DIR-Fundamentals,
>
> It was quite nice to be able to talk sense on DIR for
> a while but we passed closing time on the zoo and the
> animals are out.

I thought it might end up that way, but hey, I posted the report for
those here that know and have dived with me, not the people (either
side) who just want to pick a fight.

The base reason I took the course was to try and become a better diver
for myself and a better buddy for my buddies. And it worked - both
during the course and in showing me where and how I can improve more.
That is good enough for me.

Cheers,
Huw
--
http://www.huwporter.com


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Jason

unread,
Oct 1, 2003, 5:08:38 AM10/1/03
to
On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 08:16:06 +0100, Frank Bruce wrote:

> Don't blame the agencies, for _cheap_ instruction running to minimum times
> and costs - you get exactly what you are prepared to pay for.

So you don't think agencies should have quality control then?

Jason

--
See http://www.scuba-addict.co.uk/ for trip reports including
the Costa Blanca, Gibraltar, Gran Canaria and the UK

Rob Kelly

unread,
Oct 1, 2003, 5:10:07 AM10/1/03
to
"Nigel Hewitt" <nig...@REMOVETHISnigelhewitt.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bldtf2$h07$1...@hercules.btinternet.com...

True some of it's supporters are over zealous. Most of them, it has to be
said, are on some of the US lists. However I didn't notice any DIR divers
here shouting, screaming, hollering and telling people that they were going
to die. I did see some people who plainly know very little about DIR saying
it's rubbish. It seems to me that the zealot factor is very much on the
other side of the fence in this thread.

RobK

Frank Bruce

unread,
Oct 1, 2003, 5:22:19 AM10/1/03
to
"Jason" <jason.use...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message

> So you don't think agencies should have quality control then?
>
> Jason

If they do they should DIR :-) or not at all (perhaps that's a reason
towards why JJ set up GUE?) - However the current position(s) help no one,
my personal summary. But not being able to think through a better way of
implementation - it's buyer beware.

What would you suggest?

/F


Dale Gray

unread,
Oct 1, 2003, 5:13:31 AM10/1/03
to

"Frank Bruce" <fbr...@cruelmail.com> wrote in message
news:3f7a7f2c$0$255$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...

> "Dale Gray" <da...@gray.at> wrote in message
> news:bldseb$fhc$1...@sparta.btinternet.com...
>
> > But in my humble uninformed opinion, any system that says it has all the
> > answers only stops its followers from thinking for themselves.
>
> Then you _aren't_ talking about DIR, but the personallities that you have
> come into contact with and ego's involved. Firstly I'm not DIR - I'm an
> Inspiration mixed gas diver and Inspiration Instuctor.

Yes it is probably personalities, but I am yet to find anyone who claims to
be DIR who is reasonable about it

> That being said I
> teach a Twinset-F course (you'll note the similarity in the name to
DIR-F).
> This last two weekends I taught this integrated into IANTD & TDI Adv
Nitrox
> and TDI Deco Procedures.
> There are equipment requirements; these are 18l backgas and 5l stage.
>
> Needless to say four very different twinsets turned up, hoses routed
> differently, inverted set, bungee wings & BCDs you name it... it was
there.
> They left with four very similar looking rigs - not because I dictated
what
> you must do - but because I took the time and explained the failure
points,
> reasons for eqipment choices and why things go where they do. They
thought
> about it and then they made the changes they wanted to. They adjusted and
> balanced the rigs and completed skills and fin techniques none thought
they
> could do - two of them had never managed a valve shutdown on the previous
> setup, managed with ease in sub 45 seconds, and four solo divers very much
> became a team.

I have just been out shopping for a Normoxic TriMix course for myself, and I
found alot of instructors blinkered by DIR, when what I was looking for was
an instructor who taught that kit configuration was a list of pros and cons,
that a student neads to understand both sides of so they could make informed
choices, under the guidance of an expert.

Like yourself, all the ones on my short list said they were NOT DIR.

> > This is the only thing wrong about DIR. In fairness it the only thing
> wrong
> > with all the training agencies, it is just that DIR is the most vocal so
> > gets the slagging
>
> Don't blame the agencies, for _cheap_ instruction running to minimum times
> and costs - you get exactly what you are prepared to pay for.

Very true
>
> > Dale
>
>


Pete Young

unread,
Oct 1, 2003, 5:28:54 AM10/1/03
to
Jason <jason.use...@ntlworld.com> writes:


>Makes you wonder if the colder water has got anything to do with that. Or
>the fact that the guys over here aren't all superfit, triathlon runners.

I think the fitness aspect is probably the most significant point. The
UK DIR group are fairly conservative in what they do, but the Swedish
DIR group run by Richard Lundgren are doing some fairly aggressive stuff,
wreck diving in generally colder water than we have here. I think they
have a pretty good safety record.

Several of the UK DIR group _are_ superfit triathletes, having discovered
the sport as part of their efforts to get fit. Some of them appear to
have also discovered that they prefer to do triathlons than go diving.

>Other DIR methods haven't survived the UK wreck diving test. Very few
>people still rear mount their reels.

George Irvine appears to have changed his mind about this one. He
now advocates that for wreck diving, or any other open ocean diving,
put the reel on your hip D ring if you have no stages. If you have
stages, he now says clip the reel to the line on top of the outside
stage.

This is what I've been doing for a while anyway, since being a
short git I got fed up with the reel dangling between my legs and
smacking me in the nads!

Pete

--
____________________________________________________________________
Pete Young pe...@antipope.org Remove dot. to reply
"Just another crouton, floating on the bouillabaisse of life"

John Kendall

unread,
Oct 1, 2003, 5:35:23 AM10/1/03
to

"Huw Porter" <huwp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8f80c64f.03093...@posting.google.com...
> The video really is the key, and there is no arguing with it - you
> watch what you do, and you think 'I need to do that better!' The
> review on Saturday was a decidedly sobering experience, none of us
> looked as good as we thought we did, none of us were as horizontal in
> the water as we thought we were.

Hi Huw,

Sounds like you had a similar experience to us last week. The video is Soul
destroying, You think you've got it sorted, then you see yourself on the
video.

> And I didn't even fall over in the car park. ;-)

Oi! I didn't fall over, there was no falling over Hmpf.

John


Pete Young

unread,
Oct 1, 2003, 5:33:35 AM10/1/03
to
Huge <hu...@ukmisc.org.uk> writes:

>Could you explain what "stroke" means in this context, please?

The insult of choice of the DIR zealot. I gather that it is founded
in the phrase 'different strokes for different folks' .

Nigel Hewitt

unread,
Oct 1, 2003, 5:37:49 AM10/1/03
to
Huge wrote:

> "Nigel Hewitt" writes:
>
>> Like a bunch of people I think the DIR holistic
>> approach to team/gear/gas has its place but some
>> of its supporters are over zealous and enjoy shouting
>> 'stroke'
>
> Could you explain what "stroke" means in this context, please?

I think it started as a reasonably good humoured reference
to a diver with a bad attitude to safety as in

#1 Don’t dive with strokes
#2 Don’t listen to strokes
#3 Nothing underwater is worth dying for

but it has become a term of abuse hurled about by the
lunatic fringe who are mainly DIR wanbees not DIR
divers. I think you will find the DIR mainstream is
distancing itself from this sort of thing.

DIR is caricatured as an endless argument about the
CORRECT!!!! place to stow your backup compass when, as
Huw pointed out, it is largely about team and skills
not equipment. As Jason pointed out the rig that they
standardised on can be improved on for UK wreck diving
(IMO) but it is a good basis to start from and solves
a lot of problems. I'd keep the boots on the cylinders
for example as they are virtually weightless and a rig
that stands up by itself is a-good-thing (also you get
less corrosion as the paint stays on) but I won't
quibble with the manifolded twins/donate the long hose
system which predates DIR but they were wize to adopt.

nigelH


Dale Gray

unread,
Oct 1, 2003, 5:45:01 AM10/1/03
to
Zealot? no (well a bit annoyed at having the same conversation with numerous
instructors)
Fed up of trying to find a TRIMIX Instructor who will leave some of the
decisions to me? Yes

Am I capable of making some of the decisions? I have been diving for 24
years, both wrecks and caves (PADI DM, BSAC Dive Leader, TDI Cave), I am now
approaching 40 and appear to be in a mid life crisis as I now want to go
deeper.

I want to take the next step, not junk it all and start over.

And yes I was getting carried away with the death and doom comment,
apologies for that.

I think their Name is the problem as DIR implies that the rest of us are
wrong

Dale

"Rob Kelly" <robk...@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:eSweb.1346$kA.4...@wards.force9.net...

Jason

unread,
Oct 1, 2003, 5:49:51 AM10/1/03
to
On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 10:22:19 +0100, Frank Bruce wrote:

> What would you suggest?

TBH I wasn't really thinking about the tech agencies. With them I think
there can be the opposite problem. By the time people have decided they
want to do the more advanced courses, they're already more or less doing
it and don't learn much.

It's the open water in three days that I think is the worst problem.

Jason

--
http://www.scuba-addict.co.uk/ for Maldivian trip reports including Kuredu,
Fesdu, Meedhupparu, Summer Island Village and Velidhu

Jason

unread,
Oct 1, 2003, 5:52:39 AM10/1/03
to
On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 10:45:01 +0100, Dale Gray wrote:

> Zealot? no (well a bit annoyed at having the same conversation with numerous
> instructors)
> Fed up of trying to find a TRIMIX Instructor who will leave some of the
> decisions to me? Yes

What part of the country do you want to do your course? I'm sure people
here could recommend instructors. And some them dive Inspirations and you
can't get much less DIR than that. (I can't believe I'm the first person
to mention a CCR in a thread)

Jason

--
http://www.scuba-addict.co.uk/ for Aussie diving reports including
Stradbroke Island, Terrigal, Jervis Bay and Portsea

Jason

unread,
Oct 1, 2003, 5:53:49 AM10/1/03
to
On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 10:37:49 +0100, Nigel Hewitt wrote:

> DIR is caricatured as an endless argument about the
> CORRECT!!!! place to stow your backup compass when, as

The right sort of bungee is very important too.

Anders Arnholm

unread,
Oct 1, 2003, 5:55:46 AM10/1/03
to
Pete Young <pe...@antipope.org> skriver:

> Jason <jason.use...@ntlworld.com> writes:
>
>
>>Makes you wonder if the colder water has got anything to do with that. Or
>>the fact that the guys over here aren't all superfit, triathlon runners.
>
> I think the fitness aspect is probably the most significant point. The
> UK DIR group are fairly conservative in what they do, but the Swedish
> DIR group run by Richard Lundgren are doing some fairly aggressive stuff,
> wreck diving in generally colder water than we have here. I think they
> have a pretty good safety record.

It just got out figuers that 5 of 14 Dir-f student in Sweden had got
bent. But I don't know anything more about how the figuers where
collected. These figuers also lead to a large inflamed argument on the
swedish scuba board. (http://www.dykarna.nu)

> George Irvine appears to have changed his mind about this one. He
> now advocates that for wreck diving, or any other open ocean diving,

So this is the most inportant thing, one setup doesn't fit every dive.
There are differences that has to be considerd. Each diver has to make
an as informed desition as possible. It this desition is the same or
close to the DIR setup or not I can't say, I don't know that much yet.


--
http://anders.arnholm.nu/ Keep on Balping

Pete Young

unread,
Oct 1, 2003, 6:06:18 AM10/1/03
to
Huge <hu...@ukmisc.org.uk> writes:

>Although "different strokes for different folks" seems to imply a degree
>of tolerance that seems to be otherwise absent from this debate.

Well, that's kind-of the point. If your objective is to organise a
team of 95-100 divers to do some very extreme diving, standardisation
becomes a lot more important than if you're only concerned with
one or two individuals diving together. You can't really afford
to tolerate much variation.

beanie

unread,
Oct 1, 2003, 6:11:44 AM10/1/03
to

"Jason" <jason.use...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.10.01....@ntlworld.com...

> On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 10:45:01 +0100, Dale Gray wrote:
>
> > Zealot? no (well a bit annoyed at having the same conversation with
numerous
> > instructors)
> > Fed up of trying to find a TRIMIX Instructor who will leave some of the
> > decisions to me? Yes

Had similar problems - but then it's important to be happy with who your
doing the course with

> What part of the country do you want to do your course? I'm sure people
> here could recommend instructors. And some them dive Inspirations and you
> can't get much less DIR than that. (I can't believe I'm the first person
> to mention a CCR in a thread)

your not - doing DIR-F with YBoDs already been said


http://www.dolphinsac.org.uk/diving/photo/beanieybod5.jpg/view

Dale Gray

unread,
Oct 1, 2003, 6:16:33 AM10/1/03
to
Sorry about going back to the beginning, but a serious question.

This is not an attempt to stir up more arguments, but a serious request for
knowledge, I know it won't work like that but that is the intention.

The question - Why does DIR recommend no shoulder breaks in the harness?

As I see it the pros and cons are as follows

For shoulder breaks - (1)your kit is easier to take on and off, (2)in an
emergency a rescuer can dump your kit easily

Against - it might break and only leave you with a shoulder strap, a chest
strap and a waist strap and a possible abort for the dive. I say possible
because you can dive with one shoulder strap open - I an say this because I
tried it before putting shoulder breaks in my harness

There has to be more to justify going against (2) above, but I can't see it


"Huw Porter" <huwp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8f80c64f.03093...@posting.google.com...

> Well, I was back in Portland over the weekend for DIR-Fundamentals,

> taught by Andy Kerslake and assisted behind the video camera by John
> Grogan. And it was intense. Over 24 hours of instruction packed in
> to a weekend-and-an-evening, with over four hours in the water.
>
> But - The 'DIR Baseball Bat' *really* couldn't be further from the
> truth. Obviously, Andy and John do believe that there is a right way
> - and recommendations were made, many things were discussed, 'The Bar'
> was shown, but harsh criticism came exclusively from people talking
> about *their own* performance on the video.
>
> Having done a lot of research over the past couple of years, there was
> nothing much in the academics that was a surprise, but my two
> team-mates were basically new to the whole set of concepts, and found
> it mindblowing.
>
> My kit passed (at this level) easily enough. Yep, even the homebrew
> bp/wing. :-) But then I've been heading in this direction for a
> couple of years. I lengthened the crotch strap, retied a couple of
> knots and repositioned a couple of D-rings slightly, but that was it.
> Contrary to popular belief, there is nothing on my rig that says
> 'Halcyon' (OK, apart from gaiters ;-)) but it is adequately
> streamlined, and there is nothing there preventing me doing the
> skills.


>
> The video really is the key, and there is no arguing with it - you
> watch what you do, and you think 'I need to do that better!' The
> review on Saturday was a decidedly sobering experience, none of us
> looked as good as we thought we did, none of us were as horizontal in
> the water as we thought we were.
>

> My main realisation of the weekend is that it is all about the team.
> When (my) focus shifted from trying to demonstrate skills to the
> instructor/camera, to trying to do everything as a team things went
> much better. And it all works...
>
> And I managed to raise my game enough on Sunday to pass. :-) As far
> as skills go, with the upgrade to a twinset (and assuming I can do a
> twins shutdown as well as the single drill) I could try for Tech 1.


>
> And I didn't even fall over in the car park. ;-)
>

> Cheers,
> Huw


Dale Gray

unread,
Oct 1, 2003, 6:24:19 AM10/1/03
to
I would say it is the zero failure rate that is the problem.

"Sorry but you are not good enough to pass" is just not in the language

Dale

"Jason" <jason.use...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message

news:pan.2003.10.01....@ntlworld.com...

Anders Arnholm

unread,
Oct 1, 2003, 6:03:41 AM10/1/03
to
Simon <snau...@hotmail.com> skriver:

> Outside of cave diving, GUE is probably the only agency that will
> teach you to fin properly, a fairly fundamental (excuse the pun) skill
> overlooked by pretty much every other (non-cave specific) agency.

What is properly, is this the same for all divers? I know that
somekind of teching in using the fins was in the PADI OW course. But
that you might not call that properly :) However both finning
technices has the advantages and maybe there uses.

/ Balp

Frank Bruce

unread,
Oct 1, 2003, 6:36:56 AM10/1/03
to
"Pete Young" <pe...@antipope.org> wrote in message
news:ble71f$7uo$2...@visp.bt.co.uk...

> >Could you explain what "stroke" means in this context, please?
>
> The insult of choice of the DIR zealot. I gather that it is founded
> in the phrase 'different strokes for different folks' .

Another would be swims with their hands and therefore "strokes" the water...

or my personal favorite

A stroke or w@nker - by actions ;-) it's kinda deep.

/F


Imorital

unread,
Oct 1, 2003, 6:46:48 AM10/1/03
to
> Fed up of trying to find a TRIMIX Instructor who will leave some of the
> decisions to me? Yes

Richy at http://www.deepbluediving.org/ will leave the decisions to you, and
providing you can perform the skills, answer the questions and generally
don't look like a liability you'll be able to pass. You'll also be much
poorer (he's not called Chiseller for nothing :-) and have enjoyed a few
good dives.

Cheers
Matt.


Danny Burchett

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Oct 1, 2003, 6:47:11 AM10/1/03
to
Dale Gray wrote:

>
> "Jason" <jason.use...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:pan.2003.10.01....@ntlworld.com...
>> On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 10:22:19 +0100, Frank Bruce wrote:
>>
>> > What would you suggest?
>>
>> TBH I wasn't really thinking about the tech agencies. With them I think
>> there can be the opposite problem. By the time people have decided they
>> want to do the more advanced courses, they're already more or less doing
>> it and don't learn much.
>>
>> It's the open water in three days that I think is the worst problem.
>>
>> Jason
>>
>> --
> I would say it is the zero failure rate that is the problem.
>
> "Sorry but you are not good enough to pass" is just not in the language
>
> Dale

Totally agree, when I booked my CCR course I made sure I chose an instructor
that a) had failed people, and b) was reccomended by people I knew.

I didn't want a paper ticket, I wanted to think I had earned it.

Danny

--
The box said windows 98 or better, so I installed Linux

Header is false, correct is Danny at danshome dot org

Imorital

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Oct 1, 2003, 6:49:36 AM10/1/03
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> >Like a bunch of people I think the DIR holistic
> >approach to team/gear/gas has its place but some
> >of its supporters are over zealous and enjoy shouting
> >'stroke'
>
> Could you explain what "stroke" means in this context, please?

Bill Gavin says - 'A "stroke" is somebody with an unsafe attitude.' (from
Doing It Right Gear Configuration by George Irvine,
http://www.wkpp.org/articles/Gear/newgeorge.html).

Matt.


Lazarus X

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Oct 1, 2003, 6:47:18 AM10/1/03
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On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:38:54 +0000 (UTC), "Dale Gray" <da...@gray.at>
wrote:


>"Eddie" <Ed...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>news:blcfso$b46$1...@hercules.btinternet.com...
>>
>> "Bardo" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
>> news:blc86l$aire5$1...@ID-115313.news.uni-berlin.de...
>> > A system of diving developed my American cave divers that aims to
>simplify
>> > and standardise kit configuration. It teaches good team work,
>preparation
>> > and awareness and is very much a holistic system - ie. simply having
>your
>> > kit configured in a DIR fashion does not make you a DIR diver!
>>
>> Ahhhh! Just as I thought. A little to do with grassy knolls and the modern
>> tendency to follow a team approach and take any individuality out of our
>> sport in the chase for the good of the whole. Is T Bliar a member of your
>> org? ;-))))))

>So what is correct for cave diving in Florida must also be correct for ice
>diving in Norway???????

Even closer correlations. Cave diving in Florida and cave diving in
the UK. DIR (as far as kit is concerned) falls on it's arse when
diving UK caves.

I do like the bits about healthy body and mind but that is more ZEN
than DIR ;-)

I also like the bits about common gasses and labeling across the team.
It comes into it's own in bailout scenarios. But (as above), I
disagree that the same configuration works regardless of where you are
diving.

Laz

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A foolproof method for sculpting an Elephant:
First, get a huge block of marble. Then, chip away
everything that doesn't look like an Elephant.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Change "nospam" to "ntlworld" to reply.

Anders Arnholm

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Oct 1, 2003, 6:41:24 AM10/1/03
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Anders Arnholm <Ander...@Arnholm.nu> skriver:

> Pete Young <pe...@antipope.org> skriver:
>> Jason <jason.use...@ntlworld.com> writes:
> It just got out figuers that 5 of 14 Dir-f student in Sweden had got
> bent. But I don't know anything more about how the figuers where

Sorry, the numbers was for the students of the GUE Tech 1 course not
DIR-F. Guess that a loot more have done DIR-F that Tech 1.

/ Anders

Anders Arnholm

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Oct 1, 2003, 6:46:00 AM10/1/03