cane pioneering
Hanne Gottliebsen
We did "ballisters" on pack holiday, and they requested more cane
pioneering.
But I think it needs to be "fun" things or maybe impressive
constructions, rather than
models of something that would be useful if made with bigger materials
(eg dining tables
and whatever else I grew up making with broom handles!).
Thanks,
Hanne, CSL (Seeonee), 8th Fife (St Andrews)
--
---------------------------------------------------------
Hanne Gottliebsen Office P337
Dept. of Computer Science Ph: +44 1334 46 3265
University of St Andrews ha...@dcs.st-and.ac.uk
- Who moved the stone?
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Richard Hancock
highest to support an egg (raw obviously!)
By the way, does everybody use rubber bands or do you tie knots?
In article <37DE45F2...@dcs.st-and.ac.uk>, Hanne Gottliebsen
<ha...@dcs.st-and.ac.uk> writes
--
Richard Hancock
Hanne Gottliebsen
> Towers are always fun if you do them as a challenge -who can build the
> highest to support an egg (raw obviously!)
>
> By the way, does everybody use rubber bands or do you tie knots?
We use bamboo canes and rubber bands. I still think it is a funny concept
(having learnt
with poles and rope), but it helps us focus on the constructions rather
than the knots.
Although sometimes I have to think about how to wrap a rubber band in a
particular place
without the risk of braking canes/spoiling already done work.
The towers are a good idea!
Hanne Gottliebsen
> >(having learnt
> >with poles and rope), but it helps us focus on the constructions rather
> >than the knots.
>
> projects, in fact mostly hitches and lashings. But they are things that
> the Scouts, Cubs have to know anyway. In which case, it is better that
> they get the chance to put that knowledge to some practical use, rather
> than to consider it as "something Akela/Skip made us learn".
I see what you're getting at. But do you use ropes with canes? Most of my
Cubs are
just physically too small to safely handle normal size poles (and we don't
have
them round the hall), and from my experience using some sort of string would
be very fiddly for them. That apart, we are only just getting into doing more
knots
(as in expanding beyond the reef knot!).
> If a rubber band breaks, the kids will be lost. If a rope breaks, they
> just get another some place, even if they have to cannibalize some other
> equipment to get it.
Out on camp, yes. Back in the hall, no. I've got a very big bag of them :-)
Hanne, CSL, 8th Fife
John Trott
emphasis on the construction principles and the erection go's very quickly
and holds attention.
can I suggest:-
Highest flagpole to remain standing unassisted.
with a polythene sheet build a shelter which will protect a cub from a
thrown glass of water
build a tower of a certain height strong enough to support a litre bottle of
water
John
Hanne Gottliebsen wrote in message <37DF592C...@dcs.st-and.ac.uk>...
Hanne Gottliebsen
> Hanne Gottliebsen wrote:
>
> >and from my experience using some sort of string would be very fiddly for
> >them. That apart, we are only just getting into doing more knots
> >(as in expanding beyond the reef knot!).
>
> Practice with the real thing will help them not to be fiddly. If we keep
> asking our kids to only do things that are easy for them, they never learn
> how to stretch their abilities. Give them something to do that you think
> is beyond their abilities. Then sit back and let them amaze you. If it's
> hard for them to work with real poles, so much the better. That much more
> they will be proud of their achievement.
OK, I meant that using canes and string (as to use the proper technique) would
befiddly, 'cause the string is small. I know this to be a fact for my pack,
tying knots
(even granny knots!) with string is a problem. We used to have a load of broom
handle like poles, those would be good, I guess.
> Yes, but the idea of pioneering is not to make "fun stuff", but to teach
> the kids that they can construct rather complicated and useful projects
> when they encounter adverse terrain or conditions. I think that once you
> take them out of the Hall, they would be lost.
However, we all have to start somewhere, and I personally think making a
towerto support an egg is a more fun "at home" activity than making some sort
of
mini-bridge to cross the chalk-river on the floor. To me (but maybe I'm wrong?)
pioneering is _also_ about doing fun stuff that'll teach you things like the
high tower
needs a good stable base.
And sure, at the moment my cubs would not really know what to do with a pile of
pioneering poles and some rope, 'cause they never used it before (the poles
that is).
But I'm wanting this to change over some time.
> I don't know, maybe in your part of the world there is abundance of bamboo
> canes in your forrests along with rubber band trees.
Nope, I wouldn't say there is, but then there isn't an abundance of ready cut
small
poles and ropes lying around either :-) And 9 year old cubs do not go about
cutting
trees, not when they are with me anyway.
What sort of "beginners" projects would you suggest (using small poles and
ropes)
for a pack who's not done anything like it apart from a ballister (basically
just a
tripod with some supports added - using canes and rubber bands) once?
I leart in an environment where some older people already knew (roughly) what
to
do and how to do it, but my pack is not like that yet. If it was, I'd
definitely be aiming
for something more that canes and rubber band!
So, I guess I more or less agree with you, I just can't really see how to
implement this
with my pack as it is just now. - And that sound like "yeah, you're right, but
I'm not
going to change anyway! Oh well...
Richard Hancock
<ha...@dcs.st-and.ac.uk> writes
>Karl Pollak wrote:
>
>> Hanne Gottliebsen wrote:
>>
>> >and from my experience using some sort of string would be very fiddly for
>> >them. That apart, we are only just getting into doing more knots
>> >(as in expanding beyond the reef knot!).
>>
>> Practice with the real thing will help them not to be fiddly. If we keep
>> asking our kids to only do things that are easy for them, they never learn
>> how to stretch their abilities. Give them something to do that you think
>> is beyond their abilities. Then sit back and let them amaze you. If it's
>> hard for them to work with real poles, so much the better. That much more
>> they will be proud of their achievement.
>
>OK, I meant that using canes and string (as to use the proper technique) would
>befiddly, 'cause the string is small. I know this to be a fact for my pack,
>tying knots
>(even granny knots!) with string is a problem. We used to have a load of broom
>handle like poles, those would be good, I guess.
Scout Staffs are ideal, easy enough to handle, strong enough to support
fairly large structures, although the bend a lot when even a cub sits on
them! Most of the projects in 'Scout Pioneering' (John Sweet, out of
print!) can be done with scout staffs with a little adaptation.
--
Richard Hancock
stephen rainsbury
Richard Hancock <Ric...@richhanco.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:IXkUPJAL...@richhanco.demon.co.uk...
> Towers are always fun if you do them as a challenge -who can build the
> highest to support an egg (raw obviously!)
>
> By the way, does everybody use rubber bands or do you tie knots?
Big rubber bands, or rings of old bike inner tube.
Alternatively use rolled up newspaper and masking tape.
--
--
Stephen Rainsbury
ASL 8th Gillingham Scout Group, Kent
http://www.8thgillinghamscouts.freeserve.co.uk/index.html
The views expressed here do not necessarily represent those of my scout
group.
Portsmouthdists Scouts
Hanne Gottliebsen wrote in message <37E0B279...@dcs.st-and.ac.uk>...
>- And that sound like "yeah, you're right, but
>I'm not
>going to change anyway! Oh well...
>
>Hanne, CSL, 8th Fife
>--
straws into peas to plaiting your own ropes for making a bridge over a
Himalayan gorge. Choose whatever medium you like to achieve your aim of the
moment. Canes & bands are a useful combination for teaching about
structures, planning big projects, team building, having fun etc, etc.
Should you want to teach "proper" lashings, as you say string is too fiddly
for most things, so use light poles & 3mm or 4mm cord.
I would guess, however, that your cubs are a lot better at knots than you
give them credit for. Just don't expect them to know the names, or the ones
in the books. They can probably tie their own shoes, or tie a rope on a
pole or whatever. Give them lots of things to do with ropes and other
tyables, like bandages, licorice strings ... and refine their knots to
neater or otherwise better ones as they go.
Jeremy Fox
Pioneer person
stephen rainsbury
> moment. Canes & bands are a useful combination for teaching about
> structures, planning big projects, team building, having fun etc, etc.
> Should you want to teach "proper" lashings, as you say string is too
fiddly
> for most things, so use light poles & 3mm or 4mm cord.
Saw a brilliant idea today, cubs pioneering with bamboo canes and cable
ties, they were getting really good results in minutes. They were making
balistas <?> and they LOVED it.
John Trott
to go blue by the time I managed to cut it off (the tie that is not his
finger)8-{
John
stephen rainsbury wrote in message <7s3rq3$p46$2...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>...
stephen rainsbury
John Trott <Jo...@pctrott.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7se94j$j94$1...@news4.svr.pol.co.uk...
> I had a cub find a cable tie last camp but one.. His fingers were starting
> to go blue by the time I managed to cut it off (the tie that is not his
> finger)8-{
I agree, they would have to be supervised closely and you would probably
have to count the ties out. and account for them afterwards
Matthew Rockel
street. Double them up and make square lashings by slipping them over
the end of one cane. Quick, safe, and surprisingly strong.
In article <7seg21$roa$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>, stephen rainsbury
<Ste...@rainsbury.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>
>John Trott <Jo...@pctrott.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:7se94j$j94$1...@news4.svr.pol.co.uk...
>> I had a cub find a cable tie last camp but one.. His fingers were starting
>> to go blue by the time I managed to cut it off (the tie that is not his
>> finger)8-{
>
>I agree, they would have to be supervised closely and you would probably
>have to count the ties out. and account for them afterwards
>
--
Yours in Scouting
Matthew Rockel, 5th/9th Chiswick Sea Scouts, GLMW.
stephen rainsbury
Matthew Rockel <m...@frendcastle.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:kkCVKCAS...@frendcastle.demon.co.uk...
> Try using big rubber bands, the sort the postman drops all over the
> street. Double them up and make square lashings by slipping them over
> the end of one cane. Quick, safe, and surprisingly strong.
I agree except the little sods make catapults with them!
John Trott
tennis ball as a missile (fired not thrown) wins!
John.
stephen rainsbury wrote in message <7sqk59$rg$2...@news4.svr.pol.co.uk>...