Dib Dib - do what?
Manky Badger
As I'm leaving ten minutes early on a Tuesday for Cubs (as usual) one of my
collegues made his usual "dib dib" comment, so I turned to him, and asked
(in all honesty) why he makes that noise every Tuesday.
Apparently he seems to think we scouts do that.
Well, I've never heard it IN scouting, either in the last ten years as a
leader, or during the years as a cub in the early seventies.
Just how long is it since this dib-dob thing was dropped?
*** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***
Richard Fairbairn
> I finally flipped at work today.
> As I'm leaving ten minutes early on a Tuesday for Cubs (as usual) one of my
> collegues made his usual "dib dib" comment, so I turned to him, and asked
> (in all honesty) why he makes that noise every Tuesday.
>
> Apparently he seems to think we scouts do that.
> Well, I've never heard it IN scouting, either in the last ten years as a
> leader, or during the years as a cub in the early seventies.
>
> Just how long is it since this dib-dob thing was dropped?
I know I will be corrected, but I think it was in 1967 when they made
all the changes, dropped boy from Boy Scouts, renamed the Wolf Cubs the
Cub Scouts and gave them a different title etc
--
Richard Fairbairn
Assistant Area Commissioner (Cub Scouts) - http://www.midlothianscouts.com
Cub Scout Leader - 14th Midlothian Bonnyrigg Scout Group
Scottish Board Member - http://www.scouts-scotland.org.uk
Escouts Team Member - http://www.escouts.org.uk
Tim Hall
<you...@bejoking.com> wrote:
>I finally flipped at work today.
>As I'm leaving ten minutes early on a Tuesday for Cubs (as usual) one of my
>collegues made his usual "dib dib" comment, so I turned to him, and asked
>(in all honesty) why he makes that noise every Tuesday.
>
>Apparently he seems to think we scouts do that.
>Well, I've never heard it IN scouting, either in the last ten years as a
>leader, or during the years as a cub in the early seventies.
>
>Just how long is it since this dib-dob thing was dropped?
>
I think it was 1966, following the publication of the "Advance Party
Report."
And it's "dyb dyb dyb", rather than "dib dib dib", as it's an acronym
for Do Your Best. It formed part of the Grand Howl, so was for cubs
only.
Tim
Eddie Langdown
"Manky Badger" <you...@bejoking.com> wrote in message
news:446a3b9d$0$24277$8826...@free.teranews.com...
>I finally flipped at work today.
> As I'm leaving ten minutes early on a Tuesday for Cubs (as usual) one of
> my collegues made his usual "dib dib" comment, so I turned to him, and
> asked (in all honesty) why he makes that noise every Tuesday.
>
> Apparently he seems to think we scouts do that.
> Well, I've never heard it IN scouting, either in the last ten years as a
> leader, or during the years as a cub in the early seventies.
>
> Just how long is it since this dib-dob thing was dropped?
Probably about the same time Boy Scouts was dropped... but it was in the
Sunday paper this week.
Eddie
dhagerty
"Manky Badger" <you...@bejoking.com> wrote in message
news:446a3b9d$0$24277$8826...@free.teranews.com...
I believe it was dropped circa 1967 in this country. I only ever came across
it once in Scouting, when a visiting Canadian Cub Scout explained it to our
Cub pack. I must have been about 9 at the time, and presumably the Canadians
carried on with this "dib-dob thing", and for all I know maybe still do.
Teenage reporters on the local radio also use it when talking about Scouts,
even though Cubs and Scouts in this country would not have done the "dib-dob
thing" within their lifetime. Radio Leeds, please tell your reporters to do
their research properly before opening their mouths.
--
David Hagerty
SL, 17th Linthwaite
ADC (Scouts), Huddersfield SW
sco...@linthwaitemc.com
Paul Harris
<tim...@nospamtoday.clara.co.uk> writes
>
>I think it was 1966, following the publication of the "Advance Party
>Report."
>
>And it's "dyb dyb dyb", rather than "dib dib dib", as it's an acronym
>for Do Your Best. It formed part of the Grand Howl, so was for cubs
>only.
>
It was changed as you said following the Advance Party report of 1966
although some parts were not implemented until 1967 and others never
seem to have made it. You are also correct as it is now forty years
since we stopped using dyb, dyb, dyb, dyb and yet it still lingers on.
It does surprise me when some who quote it weren't even born when we
stopped saying it.
http://www.scoutbase.org.uk/library/history/cubs/cub-law.htm
--
Paul Harris
GAGS
"Manky Badger" <you...@bejoking.com> wrote in message
news:446a3b9d$0$24277$8826...@free.teranews.com...
> As I'm leaving ten minutes early on a Tuesday for Cubs (as usual) one of
> my collegues made his usual "dib dib" comment, so I turned to him, and
> asked (in all honesty) why he makes that noise every Tuesday.
>
> Apparently he seems to think we scouts do that.
> Well, I've never heard it IN scouting, either in the last ten years as a
> leader, or during the years as a cub in the early seventies.
>
> Just how long is it since this dib-dob thing was dropped?
IIRC it went out of scouting at the time of the APR in 1966 when Wolf Cubs
became Cub Scouts. It didn't disappear overnight as some kept up with the
old traditions for some time after the APR but certainly by the early to
mid-1970's it had faded to such an extent that it was rarely heard in the
UK, however, I believe it's still used by packs in other countries.
Curiously it's still a popular term in the UK, but not in scouting. While
those in scouting don't use it any more, those outside of scouting still use
it in the (mistaken) belief that it's still used in scouting, however, their
use of the term is now largely derogatory.
Another curiousity is that while the term was never used in the scout
section those outside of scouting held (and many still do) the belief that
it did apply to scouts.
Seems like the rest of the UK is lagging behind scouting by 40-odd years!
Your colleague needs correcting and you need to ask him what he does every
Tuesday that is worthwhile and in support of yp in the UK. Furthermore, does
he actually know what he's saying? And if he doesn't know what he's
aying - the likely case - why is he acting like a moron in continuing to
say it?
GAGS
Richard L Clauson
Scouts started,
and the uniform was changed, and Wolf Cubs changed to Cub Scouts, and Boy
Scouts became Scouts, and Scout Masters became Scout Leaders, and a whole
bunch of other things.
Just tell your 'colleague' that he needs to join the latter part of the
last century if he can't make it to the start of this century.
Seriously, why not invite him along to see what actually happens at a Cub
Scout meeting. He might even enjoy it!!!
--
Richard L Clauson | /// ///
| \ // / /
ESMAT, yr eryrod | \ //// _/ /
| \_ //// /
Essex | \___/ /
Scout | / \
Mountain | /,)-_( \_ \
Activities | (/ \\ / \\\\
Team |_ //
Also see Essex Scouts - http://www.essexscouts.org.uk/esmat/
In article <446a3b9d$0$24277$8826...@free.teranews.com>,
you...@bejoking.com (Manky Badger) on Tue, 16 May 2006 22:50:28 +0100
wrote:
> *Subject:* Dib Dib - do what?
> *From:* "Manky Badger" <you...@bejoking.com>
> *Date:* Tue, 16 May 2006 22:50:28 +0100
Dave
"GAGS" <absolutec...@craplineone.net> wrote in message
news:446a5...@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com...
SNIP
> Your colleague needs correcting and you need to ask him what he does every
> Tuesday that is worthwhile and in support of yp in the UK. Furthermore,
does
> he actually know what he's saying? And if he doesn't know what he's
> aying - the likely case - why is he acting like a moron in continuing to
> say it?
>
> GAGS
>
>
Totally agree - but is it not a fact that not only in this instance but in
many there are people who say things in parrot fashion without having a clue
what they are saying and why they are saying it.
Take it on a stage and they act and dress in such a manner that they are
doing it to follow a trend without knowing why. Basically they have no mind
of their own and are sheep.
DaveB
West Yorks
Pete Jeffreys
> I finally flipped at work today.
> As I'm leaving ten minutes early on a Tuesday for Cubs (as usual) one of my
> collegues made his usual "dib dib" comment, so I turned to him, and asked
> (in all honesty) why he makes that noise every Tuesday.
>
> Apparently he seems to think we scouts do that.
> Well, I've never heard it IN scouting, either in the last ten years as a
> leader, or during the years as a cub in the early seventies.
>
> Just how long is it since this dib-dob thing was dropped?
As everyone else has said it was in the mid-late 60s and yet it is
still what occurs to a lot of outside-scouting people unfortunately.
When I was in uni halls of residence I used to have to absent myself
from dinner a few minutes early on Mondays to get changed for Cubs and
used to pass my friends on the way out in uniform. At the very
beginning of the year they were all a bit polite to comment on anything
apart from enquiring where I was going.
After a few weeks one or two of them started making snide remarks about
"dyb dyb dyb", shorts, big hats, boys in a tent and rubbing sticks
together. At the start I just laughed it off and ignored it but they
carried.
One evening after I came back I sat down with a few of them and
explained what we'd done in the evening, showed them some stuff the
Cubs had made. This sparked all sorts of responses ranging from giggles
at whatever it was had been produced, to plenty of questions about what
we do with them, the organisation and what happens during an evening's
programme.
For the rest of the year on a Monday evening there would always be a
few of them who'd come to find me when I got back to ask me what we'd
done and their response was always covered in jealousy that they hadn't
done anything as fun!
I tried to talk a couple into becomming leaders or helpers but they
didn't have the guts!
Pete
Ewan Scott
<you...@bejoking.com> wrote:
>I finally flipped at work today.
>As I'm leaving ten minutes early on a Tuesday for Cubs (as usual) one of my
>collegues made his usual "dib dib" comment, so I turned to him, and asked
>(in all honesty) why he makes that noise every Tuesday.
>
>Apparently he seems to think we scouts do that.
>Well, I've never heard it IN scouting, either in the last ten years as a
>leader, or during the years as a cub in the early seventies.
>
>Just how long is it since this dib-dob thing was dropped?
>
I wish that I had the wit to turn the ridiculing into a positive that
encouraged people to become Leaders and do something positive. Sadly,
I don't.
However, when someone attempts to take the mikey with the DYB DYB
"jibe" I have been know to ask them what they do for a living - and
this usually works with most people - when they respond, I ask them if
they do their best at that job? Most folk will answer in the
affirmative. "So, you do your best, every day, in your job? Yet you
think that you are ridiculing Scouts by using DYB DYB as a jibe? Any
idea what DYB DYB means? When I tell them they usually look somewhat
sheepish, especially if their mates are hanging around. I then point
out that they are 40 years out of date into the bargain.
Ewan Scott
Secker
again, after all DO YOUR BEST is not a bad sentiment to have as one of the
main themes of any organisation. Once the concept behind dyb dyb dyb and not
dib dib dib was explained widely it would arm every member with all kinds of
retorts to people who invariably do not do their best, there are several
precedents of much stronger words being re claimed by sections of society
that found them humiliating and if you will excuse me for an illustration
the n word has been reclaimed by members of the black community, queer has
been re claimed by gay people and a Jewish taunt was re claimed by Tottenham
Hotspur fans, I realise these taunts are all far stronger and more insidious
than our dilemma which is really only an image problem.
So lets dust of our sense of humour take the twee out of dyb dyb dyb and
fire it right back at those whose depth of thought is only marginally more
complex than that of a gold fish.
How would the moron mentioned react if you informed him of its meaning then
dyb dyb dyb'd him every time his manager set him a task, my guess is it the
boot would soon be on the other foot.
"Dave" <dave.ba...@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:rICdna1NPdg...@karoo.co.uk...
chris.5th
WE WILL DO OUR BEST!!!
On a borderline between shouted said very loudly. It's great. It
works.
DYB DYB DYB is not the worst thing that is said about the scouts, by a
long way.Let's not worry too much. And definitely don't try to reclaim
it. The scouts enjoy camping and fires and axes and saws, (all v
traditional... they just don't know it) Why try to sell ourselves as
'sad'? A balanced programme of theme parks and hiking, football and
wide games etc etc should be enough to keep any child who joins. I
don't think any of mine have ever used the term DYB DYB DYB... i'm
happy to keep it that way.
More annoying than DYB DYB DYB is (when they find out you are a scout
leader) "Oh yeah, i was in the scouts, but i got chucked out" Just
about every man in the country seems to have been thrown out of the
scouts. When challenged they are adamant... is this just my
experience?
mabs...@hotmail.com
I always reply DOB DOB DOB, which was the Cubs repsonse way back prior
to 1967, short for Do Our Best and this stumps them and then gives you
the moral high ground to show how little they know and bring them up to
date.
To the 'chucked out Scouts' I look scathingly at them and say 'I am
not surprised!' again gaining the high ground for a further
discussion.
Mind you my age, glasses and general shape saves me from physical harm
:>))
MAB
Tim Jones
<absolutec...@craplineone.net> wrote:
>Seems like the rest of the UK is lagging behind scouting by 40-odd years!
>
>Your colleague needs correcting and you need to ask him what he does every
>Tuesday that is worthwhile and in support of yp in the UK. Furthermore, does
>he actually know what he's saying? And if he doesn't know what he's
>aying - the likely case - why is he acting like a moron in continuing to
>say it?
Personally I hear it often, but have yet to hear it spoken with ill
intent or malice. Perhaps its time for all Scouts to spruce up their
sense of humour and make an effort to smile and turn it to our
advantage.
Acting like an anorak and correcting the term every time it is used in
humour really makes us look like a bunch of pompous self righteous
fools IMHO.
Regards
Tim Jones
Allan Yates
All cubs: Akela, we'll do our best!
Cub leading: dyb-dyb-dyb-dyb (challenging the other Cubs to do their
best)
All cubs: We'll, dob-dob-dob (accepting the challenge)
I hadn't realised that some countries had stopped doing this. Our Cubs
do it with volume and enthusiasm.
Steve Smith
> More annoying than DYB DYB DYB is (when they find out you are a scout
> leader) "Oh yeah, i was in the scouts, but i got chucked out" Just
> about every man in the country seems to have been thrown out of the
> scouts. When challenged they are adamant... is this just my
> experience?
No, I often come across this, especially when wearing uniform in a pub.
I find that 90% of all men in the UK were thrown out of Scouts for
swearing, the other 10% for cheating at football. :-)
Steve.
Manky Badger
"Manky Badger" <you...@bejoking.com> wrote in message
news:446a3b9d$0$24277$8826...@free.teranews.com...
>
> Just how long is it since this dib-dob thing was dropped?
Thanks for all who replied - the chap in question is actually an ex-scout
who left Venture Scouting (form what we can work out) about the week before
"dibbing" was dropped.
opp
around the world wore more or less the same uniform. Days no more after the
Advanced Party Report, scouting in Europe falls into irrelevant. Only in
Asia Pacific Region we can still see some strong scouting. DYB ! DYB !
"GAGS" <absolutec...@craplineone.net> wrote in message
news:446a5...@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com...
>
Paul Harris
<you...@bejoking.com> writes
>
>Thanks for all who replied - the chap in question is actually an ex-scout
>who left Venture Scouting (form what we can work out) about the week before
>"dibbing" was dropped.
>
when Wolf Cubs became Cub Scouts and stopped using DYB, DYB, DYB, DYB in
the Grand Howl. Boy Scouts were renamed Scouts and Venture Scouting a
year later in 1967.
If he was actually a Venture Scout then the Cubs should have stopped
using DYB before he left so either he wasn't aware or his Group, like
others, were still doing it long after the change. There were some
Groups who were doing the old Grand Howl and sticking with shorts and
Cub caps for many years as they were probably not even aware of the
changes that had been made as we didn't have URS in those days!
--
Paul Harris
John Russell
It's the abbreviation that we don't do, not Grand Howl.
> All cubs: Akela, we'll do our best!
> Cub leading: Cubs! Do your best! (challenging the other Cubs to do their
>best)
> All cubs: We will do our best! (accepting the challenge)
--
John Russell
CSL 1st Pinhoe Exeter Devon
http://www.pinhoescouts.org.uk/cubs/
Cubs don't care how much you know, but they need to know how much you care.
Stephen Rainsbury
news:1147857241.5...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> Our cubs do the grand howl with gusto.
> More annoying than DYB DYB DYB is (when they find out you are a scout
> leader) "Oh yeah, i was in the scouts, but i got chucked out" Just
> about every man in the country seems to have been thrown out of the
> scouts. When challenged they are adamant... is this just my
> experience?
Mine too, I got chucked out for "being a little bastard" or "Not doing as I
was told"... etc... I always assumed that they were just trying to be macho
and distancing themselves from what they see as childish.
--
Stephen Rainsbury
ADC(Scouts) Gillingham Kent
ESL Agathoid Explorer Scout Unit
"Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens" - Jimi Hendrix
Stephen Rainsbury
just as it was dieing off, and to be honest I found him about as funny as
cold vomit.
The other name that we are stuck with is "BOY Scouts" all the time we still
hear it on US TV programmes we are never going to get rid of it.
In most cases I just ignore it but the person is trying to take the piss
then I do say somthing like actually its been just Scouts in the UK for the
last 40 years, ever since we started taking girls.
Stephen Rainsbury
news:qsol62tsf4pdu15od...@4ax.com...
How patient.
When I was transferred to my present Company I was told buy a Senior Manager
that I would be expected to travel around if I wanted to "get on" but I said
that wasn't realistic as I had evening commitments which made overnight
trips impractical and explained to him about Scouts.
He told me that I would have to jack that in at once and I couldn't afford
to let that harm my "career"... so I repeated that was not going to happen
ever... I work to live not the other way round.
These comments got worse over the years "Oh look here comes Rainsbury with a
coffee tin in his hand, he must be nicking that for his cubs" and "Stand
back Rainsbury is going to photocopy 5000 copies of a jumble sale notice
again, open the window to keep the heat down". I put up with it for about
three years until eventually I just snapped and told him to "just if*** off
and die" he never spoke to me again, I haven't seen him for 6 months, and
probably never will again. Its quite nice really.
Most other people in the office make jokes about it but this year alone they
have given me box of catering stuff, a box of company mugs, a scanner
printer and a VCR, and last year I was given two rucksacks and a tent, so it
does pay to advertise.
Ewan Scott
<ste...@rainsbury.net-spamnet- -> wrote:
>"Ewan Scott" <ewan...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>news:qsol62tsf4pdu15od...@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 16 May 2006 22:50:28 +0100, "Manky Badger"
>> <you...@bejoking.com> wrote:
>
>> However, when someone attempts to take the mikey with the DYB DYB
>> "jibe" I have been know to ask them what they do for a living - and
>> this usually works with most people - when they respond, I ask them if
>> they do their best at that job? Most folk will answer in the
>> affirmative. "So, you do your best, every day, in your job? Yet you
>> think that you are ridiculing Scouts by using DYB DYB as a jibe? Any
>> idea what DYB DYB means? When I tell them they usually look somewhat
>> sheepish, especially if their mates are hanging around. I then point
>> out that they are 40 years out of date into the bargain.
>
>How patient.
Uncharacteristically so :-)
>When I was transferred to my present Company I was told buy a Senior Manager
>that I would be expected to travel around if I wanted to "get on" but I said
>that wasn't realistic as I had evening commitments which made overnight
>trips impractical and explained to him about Scouts.
>
>He told me that I would have to jack that in at once and I couldn't afford
>to let that harm my "career"... so I repeated that was not going to happen
>ever... I work to live not the other way round.
Herman the German said much the same. "Zis Pfadi thing you do? You do
zis vor vree, ja? Hmmmm. Zis is crazy. I vant that you vork vor me. I
tink zat you stop zis Pfadi nonsense, ja?"
Nien!
(apologies to all our German friends :-)
At that point I decided that I didn't want to relocte to Clacton
because I didn't see a long term future in working for such a man. I
was correct. :-(
>These comments got worse over the years "Oh look here comes Rainsbury with a
>coffee tin in his hand, he must be nicking that for his cubs" and "Stand
>back Rainsbury is going to photocopy 5000 copies of a jumble sale notice
>again, open the window to keep the heat down". I put up with it for about
>three years until eventually I just snapped and told him to "just if*** off
>and die" he never spoke to me again, I haven't seen him for 6 months, and
>probably never will again. Its quite nice really.
>
>Most other people in the office make jokes about it but this year alone they
>have given me box of catering stuff, a box of company mugs, a scanner
>printer and a VCR, and last year I was given two rucksacks and a tent, so it
>does pay to advertise.
Fiona got an award from Lloyds TSB for her community work. They fund
us with a small grant every tear too. Different strokes I guess.
Oddly, the folk who take the mickey out of Fiona are, go on guess,
what do they do at the weekend? Go on guess?
Got it in one didn't you. Football! (Sorry GAGS, that's my prejudice
showing)
Ewan Scott
Dave
"John Russell" <jrus...@jrrconsulting.co.uk> wrote in message
news:fi1n62913h1iubupv...@4ax.com...
But there are some that do not do Grand Howl as it was dropped in the last
lot of changes.
By dropped I mean that it was an option to use or not.
DaveB
West Yorks
Dave
"Paul Harris" <nos...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7qrwMTB9...@zen50073.zen.co.uk...
SNIP
> Interesting, the Chief Scouts Advance Party Report was 1966 and that was
> when Wolf Cubs became Cub Scouts and stopped using DYB, DYB, DYB, DYB in
> the Grand Howl. Boy Scouts were renamed Scouts and Venture Scouting a
> year later in 1967.
>
You are partly correct. When the APR was published there was a change over
period. The report was published in 1966 but Groups had until 1968 or 69 to
make the changes (some were later).
> If he was actually a Venture Scout then the Cubs should have stopped
> using DYB before he left so either he wasn't aware or his Group, like
> others, were still doing it long after the change. There were some
> Groups who were doing the old Grand Howl
As I said they had a change over period and some were longer too.
>and sticking with shorts and
> Cub caps for many years as they were probably not even aware of the
> changes that had been made as we didn't have URS in those days!
Shorts and Cub Caps were part of uniform for many years after the APR; 1986
if I remember - when the badges changed from Arrows & Standards to the Cub
Award and Scout Award etc - although long trousers were allowed as an
ALTERNATIVE before they were dropped altogether.
> --
> Paul Harris
DaveB
West Yorks
poison dwarf
We still have a local group which insists cub uniform is shorts, long socks
and little sock tabards. They stand out at parades and always have blue legs
in winter.
--
Amanda Lawrence (Akela)
Dragons & Griffins
2nd/4th Barry Cub Scouts
Dave
"poison dwarf" <newsgrou...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:4zXag.519$ll...@newsfe2-win.ntli.net...
SNIP
> We still have a local group which insists cub uniform is shorts, long
socks
> and little sock tabards. They stand out at parades and always have blue
legs
> in winter.
>
> --
> Amanda Lawrence (Akela)
> Dragons & Griffins
> 2nd/4th Barry Cub Scouts
Technically they are allowed to with the current uniform for Cubs.
If you read POR Rule 10.6 there is no lower garment that is listed as being
part of core uniform, unlike Scouts, Explorers and adults.
There are 3 options, those being a smart navy blue skirt, navy blue shorts,
or navy blue activity trousers.
I guess that most require either long school trousers or navy activity
trousers but the others are an option.
If they go for shorts and or skirts then long socks are a good idea. If they
wore the official scout shorts and long socks there would be little of their
legs showing anyway.
(old git mode on) Regarding the cold and legs - I am sorry to say that I
personally rarely feel the cold so it would not bother me, plus when I were
a lad we wore shorts until we went to upper school at 11 and it did me no
harm. So has the weather got colder with global warming or are kids wimps.
(old git mode off).
DaveB
West Yorks
>
Paul Harris
<dave.ba...@virgin.net> writes
>
>(old git mode on) Regarding the cold and legs - I am sorry to say that I
>personally rarely feel the cold so it would not bother me, plus when I were
>a lad we wore shorts until we went to upper school at 11 and it did me no
>harm. So has the weather got colder with global warming or are kids wimps.
>(old git mode off).
>
accommodation wearing long trousers it would make one more aware of the
cold when going out in shorts in winter.
--
Paul Harris
Dave
"Paul Harris" <nos...@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:qS$i0LN0K...@zen50073.zen.co.uk...
And girls in skirts - it does still happen even in winter.
DaveB
West Yorks
Dave
And girls in skirts - it does still happen even in winter.
DaveB
West Yorks
DuncanHill
but as part of the history of the movement - actually I think it was
something on the lines of "You're really really old, Baloo - what was
Cubs like years ago?". I think he must have been the ripe old age of at
least 25.
We wore caps - or at least until we grew too big for the sizes
available.
We also had shorts and garters, but I never wore shorts, I reckon about
30 percent of the Pack wore long trousers.