Ahoi from Poland
" >
Right now I am looking for the_best_marina_in_UK to get job and be a
part of community :)
By, for now.
Ps. If U want to mail me just remove (no_spam) from e-mail address.
freelancer
Stefan
<""freelancer1\"@(no_spam)o2.pl"> says...
> I wish to say Ahoi to all sailors on this group.
> Right now I am looking for the_best_marina_in_UK to get job and be a
> part of community :)
A large proportion of the marinas in the UK are operated by MDL (Marina
Developments Limited). The biggest concentration of marinas is in
Hampshire, around Hamble and Lymington. Many of them have websites if
you look. There are also a large number of associated businesses like
boat builders and repairers etc. There is a shortage of skilled labour
of almost all types in Hampshire (which is where I live). However
accomodation is in short supply and very expensive. That is one of the
things that stops people from other parts of the UK moving here to fill
the jobs.
Good luck.
Dave Royal
http://www.britishmarine.co.uk/
Good luck
Dave
--
(Remove any numerics from my email address.)
Duncan Heenan
"fraggy" <frag...@SPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c32kt7$aqf$1...@titan.btinternet.com...
> hi
> stay in poland we have enough imigrants thank you
Not according to our wonderfully truthful Government!
I'd warn him about the housing shortage though. By coincidence we have a
large housing shortage, estimated at approximately the net number of
immigrants over the last 5 years. Strange that, but a coincidence I'm sure.
Duncan Heenan
"Stefan" <do...@spam.me> wrote in message
news:c33j3a$4qo$1$8300...@news.demon.co.uk...
There's no shortage of skilled labour, but there is a shortage of employers
prepared to pay a proper rate for a proper job. So natives with boatbuilding
skills work in other sectors. Employers would prefer to import cheap foreign
labour, which they will be able to do soon apparently.
PyroJames
fraggy <frag...@SPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c32kt7$aqf$1...@titan.btinternet.com...
> stay in poland we have enough imigrants thank you
So who is going to be working to contribute tax to pay your pension, when
your white middle class, low breeding, I all right Jack, aging population
has its financial crisis. Face up to facts, the population is aging, the
natives don't produce large enough families to support the older population,
people are living longer, and we need more immigration to cope.
Housing is a different issue, primarily one of freeing up land, which our
poor beleaguered farmers would be happy to supply, as we have killed any
profit in farming by demanding cheap globally sourced food. More people
doing manual labour, building, etc, would quite readily supply enough
housing to cater for it all.
More immigrants are not a problem, it's local bigotry that is.
--
PyroJames
"Kill your boss, quit your job, get a life.
This is not a rehearsal" Chaos Engine
Keelworm
> So who is going to be working to contribute tax to pay your pension, when
> your white middle class, low breeding, I all right Jack, aging population
> has its financial crisis.
> More immigrants are not a problem, it's local bigotry that is.
<quote from the Guardian>
It is in that frame of mind that the Treasury urges the Home Office to let
in more unskilled immigrants. Our minimum wage of £4.50 is below a living
wage. British citizens only get by with a working families tax credit to
top them up, which migrants would not be entitled to. The shortage of
labour in London and the south-east is much worried over, yet London has
one of the highest unemployment rates in Britain, alongside this wealth of
jobs.
*That's because the jobs are too low-paid and rents too high to survive on.
Families have to stay unemployed to draw full housing benefit - and the
cost of childcare is so astronomical they would starve on what was left
over from a low-paid job. So maybe migrants sleeping 10 to a room can do it
instead?*
</quote>
Frankly it scares me, a great deal... Not through any xenophobic
tendancies, but for my (and my childrens) future. A large proportion of
immigrants entering the country, prepared to live way below the minimum
standard of living I would accept, are as I see it a financial threat to my
future. Simple economics... Either I work cheaper, or someone will do my
job for less. I don't believe the cost of living will reduce accordingly,
so in order to sustain myself and family, I must reduce my standard of
living.
How the potential of enforced poverty can be an economic benefit for the
country, I am yet to be convinced.
The EU, to date, has been a viable work exchange programme, since the
countries involved have similar, stable economics in place (ish). However,
when considering the introduction of free labour migration from countries
where the average annual wage wouldn't buy four new tires for a family
saloon, is neither fair, nor appropriate to do so unregulated!.
Bigatory, racism or Xenophobia have absolutely nothing to do with my views,
however, self preservation is a strong feeling I hold dear.
Finally, in respect to immigration, to make an illegal act, legal, does not
necessasarily rule out the associated problems...
Furthermore, the larger majority of economic migrants are expected
(initially) to be manual or unskilled workforces. If Production of a
downloaded businiess plan for your painter and decorators business is
enough to gain access to the country, do we really expect the tax pounds to
come rolling in from all of these 'Cash in Hand' type jobs... Come on, you
and I all know people, regardless of nationality or immigration status, who
abuse such systems with regularity!
Cheers.
Phil.
--
ALTERNATIVE SAILING TERMS:
Anchor:
A heavy, hook-shaped device... designed to hold a vessel in place until (a)
the wind exceeds two knots, (b) the owner and crew depart, or (c) 3 AM.
#################################################
# http://www.Love2Sail.co.uk - UK Sailing Forums#
#################################################
# Moderated UK Coastal Sailing Discussion Group.#
#################################################
Stefan
duncanheenanR...@tiscali.co.uk says...
>
> There's no shortage of skilled labour, but there is a shortage of employers
> prepared to pay a proper rate for a proper job.
Tried finding a competent electrician or a plumber in Hampshire lately?
At any price. Not many people want to learn a trade these days - they
would rather work in an office.
PyroJames
Keelworm <tr...@REMOVETHECAPSgoldingweb.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c345un$q72$1...@titan.btinternet.com...
> Frankly it scares me, a great deal... Not through any xenophobic
> tendancies, but for my (and my childrens) future. A large proportion of
> immigrants entering the country, prepared to live way below the minimum
> standard of living I would accept, are as I see it a financial threat to
my
> future. Simple economics... Either I work cheaper, or someone will do my
> job for less. I don't believe the cost of living will reduce accordingly,
> so in order to sustain myself and family, I must reduce my standard of
> living.
>
> How the potential of enforced poverty can be an economic benefit for the
> country, I am yet to be convinced.
>
Doesn't this strike as a problem with the minimum wage, rather than
employment/immigration? Your possition would seem to be, that you are happy
for ascension countries to remain at home in lower standard of living
conditions that they would get here, and certainly much lower standards than
you would be prepared to put up with? You are happy to pay high taxes and a
high cost of living to maintain your minimum standard of living, while
letting others subsist in neighbouring countries. No wonder we have large
groups of disenfranchised people in the world who see the "west" as
aggressors.
If you are really wanting a higher standard of living, move north, or to
Europe, or overseas. Because if that is what you are after, then SE England
is not the place to be.
--
PyroJames
Surround yourself with all you own ,
Work your fingers to the bone ,
And happiness evades you still .
Simon Brooke
('frag...@SPAMhotmail.com') wrote:
> hi
> stay in poland we have enough imigrants thank you
There are some delightful, well mannered, friendly, welcoming people
in England. Somewhere. Or so I'm told. Unless they've left, which is
always possible.
Just as an aside, what did people *think* the deal was when we invited
former soviet bloc countries to join the European Union, which is,
after all, a free market. What did we think was in it for them? Yes,
got it in one, a free market - in labour, as well as everything else.
Freelancer, come to Scotland. You'll find much friendlier people.
--
si...@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
'Victories are not solutions.'
;; John Hume, Northern Irish politician, on Radio Scotland 1/2/95
;; Nobel Peace Prize laureate 1998; few have deserved it so much
Keelworm
> Your possition would seem to be, that you are happy
> for ascension countries to remain at home in lower standard of living
> conditions that they would get here, and certainly much lower standards
> than you would be prepared to put up with?
Not at all.
Take for example, India. A software engineer, high experience, top of his
field working for global software industry leader gets paid £12k. That
wage is enough to put him at the top of the pile, and living (in his
country)far beyond the means of a london based software architecht, working
for IBM payed £30k.
My point was, that many migrant workers entering the country, are prepared
to DO WHAT IT TAKES to stay here, even if that means living 10 to a room.
At the moment, the main target appears to be low or manual skilled
workforces, because it is in this sector that our native resources have
been totally de-valued. So much so, that people here are reluctant to do
such work. However, I see a time not so far ahead, that professionals, IT,
service sector, teachers, doctors and nurses, will have to accept much
lower standards of pay and working conditions to compete with such people.
In this country there is high un-employment, yet also a labour shortage.
Surely if benefits were either reduced, or conditions put onto receiving
such benefits, (ie. Benefits in return for community service etc. etc.
etc.) At least these two issues would be resolved, without importing labour
to do the job.
--
ALTERNATIVE SAILING TERMS:
Moon:
Earth's natural satellite. During periods when it displays a vivid blue
color, sailing conditions are generally favorable.
Simon Brooke
('tr...@REMOVETHECAPSgoldingweb.co.uk') wrote:
> Frankly it scares me, a great deal... Not through any xenophobic
> tendancies, but for my (and my childrens) future. A large proportion
> of immigrants entering the country, prepared to live way below the
> minimum standard of living I would accept, are as I see it a
> financial threat to my
> future. Simple economics... Either I work cheaper, or someone will
> do my job for less. I don't believe the cost of living will reduce
> accordingly, so in order to sustain myself and family, I must reduce
> my standard of living.
That's the Global Economy for you. Either you work cheaper, or someone
will do your job for less - in India, or Indonesia, or wherever they
happen to be. Wake up and smell the coffee. In a world where people
in poor countries have good education and good skills, there is no
way Britain can sustain wage levels above the world average for much
longer. We (and the Americans) have driven the idea of free trade
across the world. Now we've got what we wanted, what we worked so
hard for. Enjoy!
There are very, very few jobs which really cannot be exported. Those
that can't will have their rates driven down by everyone else whose
job has already been exported piling in to them.
> Bigatory, racism or Xenophobia have absolutely nothing to do with my
> views, however, self preservation is a strong feeling I hold dear.
Well it may be, but Maggie Thatcher sold that pass and you won't get
it back.
--
si...@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; Want to know what SCO stands for?
;; http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20030605
Duncan Heenan
"martin" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:8s3b509dvhokjc6gt...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:45:54 -0000, "Duncan Heenan"
> <duncanheenanR...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> >There's no shortage of skilled labour, but there is a shortage of
employers
> >prepared to pay a proper rate for a proper job. So natives with
boatbuilding
> >skills work in other sectors. Employers would prefer to import cheap
foreign
> >labour, which they will be able to do soon apparently.
>
> countries.
That's almost as many as there are italian waiters in London! I stand
corrected.
Duncan Heenan
"PyroJames" <j.ke...@cranNOfield.SPAMac.uk> wrote in message
news:4055955c$1...@news.cranfield.ac.uk...
>snip<
> More immigrants are not a problem, it's local bigotry that is.
>
rational discussion of the issue, but merely howls down opposed views with
shouts of racism and bigotry!
> --.
Duncan Heenan
> PyroJames wrote:
>
> > Your possition would seem to be, that you are happy
> > for ascension countries to remain at home in lower standard of living
> > conditions that they would get here, and certainly much lower standards
> > than you would be prepared to put up with?
>
> Not at all.
> Take for example, India. A software engineer, high experience, top of
his
> field working for global software industry leader gets paid £12k. That
> wage is enough to put him at the top of the pile, and living (in his
> country)far beyond the means of a london based software architecht,
working
> for IBM payed £30k.
>
> My point was, that many migrant workers entering the country, are prepared
> to DO WHAT IT TAKES to stay here, even if that means living 10 to a room.
>
Sandy Morton
Simon Brooke <si...@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:
> Freelancer, come to Scotland. You'll find much friendlier people.
Sunsail at Largs Marina were looking for marine engineers recently -
seasonal.
--
A T (Sandy) Morton
Council Member for Area 4
Royal Caledonian Curling Club
http://www.royalcaledoniancurlingclub.org
PyroJames
Duncan Heenan <duncanheenanR...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4055c...@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
So how does "I want to maintain my standard of living at the expense of
someone else" translate to rational discussion?
The whole "England is too full", "they will do anything to stay here" is a
fallacy. Some may be dole bludgers, but on the whole migrants come here to
work hard and contribute to the nation.
If they are prepared to work for less than you, then that's good for the
employer. If you think that there should be a minimum wage for a job, fight
for it. Fight against the cash economy, fight against long hours and low
pay, but don't exclude some group who are prepared to work harder than you
for less at the same job, because in the long run, you'll loose. They will
do your job, maybe not here, maybe not in London, but somewhere in the
global freetrade world, and rapidly your economy will fail.
Ian Johnston
: Tried finding a competent electrician or a plumber in Hampshire lately?
Boo-bloody-hoo. It's dead easy to find either in south west Scotland.
But then, we haven't all been celebrating stupidly inflated house
prices for a couple of decades. Did the good people of Hampshire think
all that money just magically appeared from nowhere?
Ian
--
PyroJames
Steve Firth <usene...@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1gap5oq.mahtvg9b6od9N%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
> martin <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
> > On the other hand there are 650,000 Brit.s working abroad in EU
> > countries.
>
Come to think of it, so am I. I am a Brit, but also Australian (originally)
now working abroad (from Oz) in Brit. So there! :P
--
PyroJames
I used to drown my sorrows, but the bastards learnt to swim.
Stefan
ian.u...@talk21.com says...
Apart from having a whinge at the south, what is your point? House
prices are not a choice we make - it's supply and demand. Most people
still choose to live within a few miles of where they were born. Which
for some people happens to be Hampshire.
PyroJames
> I had you categorised as
> either
> a) an undesirable immigrant taking the bread from the mouths of the
> working classes.
> or
> b) an eccentric capitalist wooden boat owner using all his wealth and
> more to create work for the boat building industry of the east coast.
>
> :-)
Guilty as charged on both counts m'lud. :)
PyroJames
an eccentric undesirable capitalist wooden boat owner immigrant using all
his wealth taking the bread from the mouths of the boat building industry of
the east coast working classes.
Keelworm
Surely you mean...
So wh'art them sutthenn jessies buyin up t'homes in t'east ridin's...
Sithee, happen it's for t'hi quality an low cost of us beer!
Sorry... couldn't resist. I'm currently looking at moving back up to
yorkshire, pocketing a tidy sum from the london house, and buying in/around
yorkshire coast... Was thinking about Brid 'till they scrapped the
Yorkshire Marina Project... bloody killjoys!
--
ALTERNATIVE SAILING TERMS:
Clew:
Evidence leading to recovery of a missing sail.
Ian Johnston
: In article <cCUlhtvFIYkV-pn2-ZDdfuyJtswdj@localhost>,
: ian.u...@talk21.com says...
: > Boo-bloody-hoo. It's dead easy to find either in south west Scotland.
: > But then, we haven't all been celebrating stupidly inflated house
: > prices for a couple of decades. Did the good people of Hampshire think
: > all that money just magically appeared from nowhere?
: Apart from having a whinge at the south, what is your point? House
: prices are not a choice we make - it's supply and demand.
Having a particular house is a matter of choice. People have chosen to
pay stupidly inflated prices for houses in Hampshire. In due course,
they'll probably stop doing so. There will be a price crash. This will
be seen as a bad thing, because everybody likes free money. Whether
the first time buyers, plumbers, teachers, nurses, painters and
decorators, mechanics and parking attendants who were supplying the
"free" money see it as a bad thing is slightly less certain.
: Most people
: still choose to live within a few miles of where they were born. Which
: for some people happens to be Hampshire.
Indeed. So if Hampshire people chose to pay stupid prices for their
Hampshire houses, they haven't a leg to stand on when it comes to
whinging about the difficulty and expense of finding a Hampshire
plumber.
Ian
--
Sandy Morton
<j.ke...@cranNOfield.SPAMac.uk> wrote:
> The whole "England is too full", "they will do anything to stay
> here" is a fallacy. Some may be dole bludgers, but on the whole
> migrants come here to work hard and contribute to the nation.
If you go to most countries which accepted/welcomed immigrants you
will find that they are the ones who are succesful - they left home
to better themselves and are/were prepared to work to do so. They
don't all succeed but the majority do and pay a lot of taxes - which
benefits all the stay at homes.
imvho
--
A T (Sandy) Morton
on the Bicycle Island
In the Global Village
http://www.millport.net
Sandy Morton
martin <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> I'm another :-)
I thought that you were retired with the ammount of time you spend on
here:-)
Guy Fawkes
> In the case of Poole, the highest per
> sq ft in the world last year.
seriously?
(shocked as I remember a million pesetas a square metre in mallorca)
--
Liquid Cooled PC? --> http://www.surfbaud.co.uk/
E-mail (rot-13) qnirahyy NG oyhrlbaqre QBG pb QBG hx
EoF
Ronald Raygun
> an eccentric undesirable capitalist wooden boat owner immigrant using all
> his wealth taking the bread from the mouths of the boat building industry
> of the east coast working classes.
I wish I owned an eccentric undesirable capitalist wooden boat.
freelancer
know that You think about me as a person who want to steal yours jobs.
But right now in Poland we have just few (about 6-9) realy good marinas.
And I promise - I will pay all the tax. I was work in germany and
croatia for couple of months and I know how to "live with 10 in one room
for 30$ per week or live for 5 months on boar the little boat". So thank
you for any information. If You wish to learn more about me pls e-mail
me. Best wishes. And sail ho.
Ian Johnston
: Steve Firth wrote:
:
: > In the case of Poole, the highest per
: > sq ft in the world last year.
:
: seriously?
I think it was an expensive house at Sandbanks. A highly artificial
measure, since the area in question is tiny, with just a few dozen
houses, if that.
Ian
PyroJames
Guy Fawkes <lo...@my.sig> wrote in message
news:P3m5c.6351$365...@fe20.usenetserver.com...
> Steve Firth wrote:
>
> > In the case of Poole, the highest per
> > sq ft in the world last year.
>
> seriously?
>
> (shocked as I remember a million pesetas a square metre in mallorca)
>
I rather doubt that given some areas of high density housing where even a
low cost 40 story housing block will dwarf millionaire mansion places. From
memory Monaco has had the highest ground rent of anywhere in the world.
--
PyroJames
"Of course, sewing plastic sushi into your curtains would be far more
sophisticated
than just sewing plastic shrimp into your curtains." H Duffy, ukpg.
PyroJames
> Guy Fawkes <lo...@my.sig> wrote:
>
> > Steve Firth wrote:
> >
> > > In the case of Poole, the highest per
> > > sq ft in the world last year.
> >
> > seriously?
>
> Tokyo and Manhattan.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2nbnf
It gives....
"With property prices in part of Poole among the highest in the world, calls
have been made for changes in council tax.
The Sandbanks peninsular is said to have the fourth highest house prices in
the world and rising property prices make it difficult for local people to
get on the ladder and for employers to attract job-seekers to the area."
High, but not the highest.
--
PyroJames
Some days there just isn't enough accelerant
Duncan Heenan
I prefer to fight for our countryside and quality of life which is getting
swamped by too many people.
Duncan Heenan
"Sandy Morton" <sa...@millport.net> wrote in message
news:4c90282...@millport.net...
> In article <4055ce92$1...@news.cranfield.ac.uk>, PyroJames
> <j.ke...@cranNOfield.SPAMac.uk> wrote:
> > The whole "England is too full", "they will do anything to stay
> > here" is a fallacy. Some may be dole bludgers, but on the whole
> > migrants come here to work hard and contribute to the nation.
>
> If you go to most countries which accepted/welcomed immigrants you
> will find that they are the ones who are succesful - they left home
> to better themselves and are/were prepared to work to do so. They
> don't all succeed but the majority do and pay a lot of taxes - which
> benefits all the stay at homes.
And many of the 'immigrants' were in fact colonists who slaughtered anyone
who opposed them (e.g. Uncle Sam)
Simon Brooke
('ian.u...@talk21.com') wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:16:23 UTC, Stefan <do...@spam.me> wrote:
>
> : Tried finding a competent electrician or a plumber in Hampshire
> : lately?
>
> Boo-bloody-hoo. It's dead easy to find either in south west
> Scotland. But then, we haven't all been celebrating stupidly
> inflated house prices for a couple of decades.
We've got 'em now, though. Prices round here have gone completely
silly. There's no way a local born person with an ordinary job could
afford a house in this village now.
How are you doing, Ian? I drove past your house the other day, and
thought I hadn't seen you around for a while.
--
si...@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; single speed mountain bikes: for people who cycle on flat
;; mountains.
Tony of Judicious
> Guy Fawkes <lo...@my.sig> wrote:
>
>> Steve Firth wrote:
>>
>> > In the case of Poole, the highest per
>> > sq ft in the world last year.
>>
>> seriously?
>
> Seriously. Sandbanks, highest priced property in the world. It beats off
> Tokyo and Manhattan.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2nbnf
>
> Should give more info, it keeps crashing Netscape on my Linux box though
> so I can't be sure. IIRC the news on Meridian last year was that it is
> not possible to buy any property on Sandbanks for under £1,000,000.
>
It's OK with Opera on my Linux box.
John
illegal immigrants!
"Duncan Heenan" <duncanheenanR...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4055c...@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>
fraggy
the reason that english people cant afford english houses is because of
imigrants again.
Also I work in a school and in just a few short years there will be no
shortage of unskilled labour judging by the standard of school leavers this
year, 30% of them have trouble reading and writing.
All hail the national curriculem
fragged
"@(no_spam)o2.pl" <""freelancer1\"@(no_spam)o2.pl"> wrote in message
news:c32327$ssh$1...@atlantis.news.tpi.pl...
> I wish to say Ahoi to all sailors on this group.
> Right now I am looking for the_best_marina_in_UK to get job and be a
> part of community :)
> By, for now.
>
> Ps. If U want to mail me just remove (no_spam) from e-mail address.
>
Top Cat
<freelancer1@no_spam_o2.pl> wrote:
I wish to say Ahoi to all sailors on this group.
Right now I am looking for the_best_marina_in_UK to get job and be a
part of community :)
By, for now.
>>>
As I count it there are 4 countries between Poland and the UK with a
coastline.
Why don't you stop at one of those, hmmm, is it they wont be paying
for your stay or housing you in the bargain.
Your country is not even a full member yet and already you have your
ticket for the gravy train.
Please explain your reasons for missing the first 4 countries on the
way to the uk?
J
Capt Nell (c)
<frag...@SPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
>hi
>the reason that english people cant afford english houses is because of
>imigrants again.
> Also I work in a school and in just a few short years there will be no
>shortage of unskilled labour judging by the standard of school leavers this
>year, 30% of them have trouble reading and writing.
>
> All hail the national curriculem
I'm just so pleased that limeys working in the education sector can
spell curriculum. Proves his own point about reading and writing.
Capt Nell
Capt Nell (c)
<frag...@SPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
>hi
> stay in poland we have enough imigrants thank you
Wasn't there a post on here last year about the Poles refusing entry
to a British yacht last year that went in for water and fuel. Also I
recall two British boats being fired on by polish border guards. And
you are welcoming these terrorists.
Capt Nell
SailBlade
defending this country of ours from the Germans and I do not think he would
be very happy to hear what you are saying. We think we are so bloody
perfect, have you given any though to all the French villages, the Spanish
and Portuguese resorts that are now infested with low life British setting
up home there now.
Top Cat <sbu...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:3tnc50hqiic1jjo87...@4ax.com...
Top Cat
On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:34:20 -0000, "SailBlade" <sp...@spam.com> wrote:
>Well, my grandfather is Polish and he spent a lot of time, sweat and blood
>defending this country of ours from the Germans and I do not think he would
>be very happy to hear what you are saying. We think we are so bloody
>perfect, have you given any though to all the French villages, the Spanish
>and Portuguese resorts that are now infested with low life British setting
>up home there now.
>
Yes I hate it, the resorts with British pubs, British breakfast bars,
British clubs etc. The way the British behave abroad is disgusting in
many cases. But that is not what we are talking about is it. We are
talking about having to open our borders to every member of the EU to
come and set up camp. We are already overcrowded on this little island
and I for one am getting fed up to the back teeth of it.
Capn Neal actually makes a good point about the way British yachts
were recently treated by Polish guards and yet we have to tug our
forelocks and accept these new laws, that I have to say, I don't know
anyone who agrees with them.
As for your Grandfather fighting in the war, well done, so did both of
mine, and my dads father's 6 brothers, only 5 came back. Don't try to
take the moral high ground with me, my grandfather died in the
merchant navy supplying Russia, so my father never met his dad. That
is the weakest argument I have heard so far.
Simon Brooke
('sbu...@excite.com') wrote:
> Your country is not even a full member yet and already you have your
> ticket for the gravy train.
>
> Please explain your reasons for missing the first 4 countries on the
> way to the uk?
Look guys, will you stop it. This is getting humiliating. This person
is a person like you, with ambitions and aspirations like yours. I
*know* we're all all right, Jack, but is there really any need or
excuse to treat someone with hostility just because he's worse off
than you are and has ambition? Do we really want to give the world
the impression that Britain is full of small minded, selfish, petty
little people who don't care about anyone else?
There, but for the grace of God, goes all of us. Any one of us could
have been born in Poland, or Bosnia, or Rwanda. We happened to get
lucky. Is that a reason to pull the drawbridge up?
--
si...@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; Generally Not Used
;; Except by Middle Aged Computer Scientists
Guy Fawkes
> Do we really want to give the world
> the impression that Britain is full of small minded, selfish, petty
> little people who don't care about anyone else?
well, at least it would be honest.... lol
PyroJames
Oh, nonsense, take Oz over the last 100 years for example. Huge migrant
intake from Greece and Italy initially, with exactly the same arguments
against the imigration then as people are saying here now. They are now a
mainstay of Australian society. The chinese, the Thai's, the Veitnamese,
Cambodians.... the list goes on, and none of them, none, are now regarded ad
bleeding the country dry, or over populating it, or causing any of the
terrible outcomes that are suggested by the anti migration side.
--
PyroJames
"Oh well, a funeral is always better to my mind than a wedding.
I can't bear weddings. A funeral's final. A wedding - well,
it's only an unfortunate stage to somthing else." Graham Greene
PyroJames
> On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:21:51 +0000 (UTC), "Capt Nell (c) "
> <capt...@fsmail.net> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 23:17:46 +0000 (UTC), "fraggy"
> ><frag...@SPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>hi
> >>the reason that english people cant afford english houses is because of
> >>imigrants again.
>
> houses.
>
Ahh. Yes, obviously, I was wondering how that one worked out! :)
--
PyroJames
Anything burns if you soak it in liquid oxygen first.
PyroJames
>
>
> Yes I hate it, the resorts with British pubs, British breakfast bars,
> British clubs etc. The way the British behave abroad is disgusting in
> many cases. But that is not what we are talking about is it. We are
So where do you go on your holidays? Do you use an E111, and relie on
european health services? How about the local hospital with Doctors and
nurses recruited from other poorer countries?
> talking about having to open our borders to every member of the EU to
> come and set up camp. We are already overcrowded on this little island
> and I for one am getting fed up to the back teeth of it.
We are not over crowded, not even close. Go to India, or China, or anywhere
in SE asia, and you will see what population densities are possible.
--
PyroJames
"Every existant is born without reason, prolongs itself out of weakness,
and dies by chance." JPSartre
PyroJames
Simon Brooke <si...@jasmine.org.uk> wrote in message
news:n40ji1-...@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk...
> There, but for the grace of God, goes all of us. Any one of us could
> have been born in Poland, or Bosnia, or Rwanda. We happened to get
> lucky. Is that a reason to pull the drawbridge up?
Well said, Simon.
--
PyroJames
I used to drown my sorrows, but the bastards learnt to swim.
Jens K
> coastline.
> Why don't you stop at one of those, hmmm, is it they wont be paying
> for your stay or housing you in the bargain.
>
> Your country is not even a full member yet and already you have your
> ticket for the gravy train.
>
> Please explain your reasons for missing the first 4 countries on the
> way to the uk?
>
> J
I would guess language. That's the reverse of the medal making English
a world language, do you see? Contrary to what many people think it's
almost impossible to work in Sweden, Denmark och Germany not being
able to speak the language. I don't know about Holland, though.
Social benefits are quite similar in most of the "old" EU-countries
anyway, so I really don't think UK's attraction lies there at all.
Jens K
> field working for global software industry leader gets paid £12k. That
> wage is enough to put him at the top of the pile, and living (in his
> country)far beyond the means of a london based software architecht, working
> for IBM payed £30k.
>
As far as at least the EU is concerned I think this problem is only
temporary. Standards (and prices!) in the new countries are going to
get up quickly and everything will eventuelly even out as it did in
the "old EU".
Additionally most people in the new countries won't move to Britain,
Germany, Sweden at all. People don't move that easily. I once moved
from Germany to Sweden (quite a few would consider that a trade-down,
but I really didn't do it for the money), and I know that it is not so
easy as many people might think (even Poles do have families, pets and
friends, do you see?). And then again it IS much easier to move
between Germany and Sweden (or Britain) than from Eastern Europe.
There is much more prejudice and scepticism against people from there.
Why is that by the way?
Keelworm
Good luck with your plans Freelancer, no offence intended by any statements
made in the group.
Good luck.
Phil
--
ALTERNATIVE SAILING TERMS:
Zephyr:
Warm pleasant breeze. Named after the mythical Greek god of wishful
thinking, false hopes and unrelaiable forecasts.
#################################################
# http://www.Love2Sail.co.uk - UK Sailing Forums#
#################################################
# Moderated UK Coastal Sailing Discussion Group.#
#################################################
Ian Johnston
: Please explain your reasons for missing the first 4 countries on the
: way to the uk?
Are you as opposed to UK-born people working overseas as you seem to
be to foreigners working here?
Ian
--
Duncan Heenan
"martin" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:5gfd50titaq0r0oik...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:21:51 +0000 (UTC), "Capt Nell (c) "
> <capt...@fsmail.net> wrote:
.> I was accused of single handedly causing housing inflation in the
> Netherlands.
>
Imagine what would have happened if you'd used both hands!
Duncan Heenan
The why doesn't the OZ government open the borders up to all comers inc.
China & India? I am sure a few hundred million new Australians would do
wonders for the place, if that's the case.
Duncan Heenan
>
> Simon Brooke <si...@jasmine.org.uk> wrote in message
> news:n40ji1-...@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk...
>
> > There, but for the grace of God, goes all of us. Any one of us could
> > have been born in Poland, or Bosnia, or Rwanda. We happened to get
> > lucky. Is that a reason to pull the drawbridge up?
>
> Well said, Simon.
It's not a drawbridge and a castle, it's a lifeboat. It's drowning people
swimming to a lifeboat in such numbers that if the lifeboat gets too full we
all drown. What should the skipper do?
Duncan Heenan
>
> Top Cat <sbu...@excite.com> wrote in message
> news:3pid5090h2j80g42s...@4ax.com...
> >
> >
> > Yes I hate it, the resorts with British pubs, British breakfast bars,
> > British clubs etc. The way the British behave abroad is disgusting in
> > many cases. But that is not what we are talking about is it. We are
>
> So where do you go on your holidays? Do you use an E111, and relie on
> european health services? How about the local hospital with Doctors and
> nurses recruited from other poorer countries?
>
> > talking about having to open our borders to every member of the EU to
> > come and set up camp. We are already overcrowded on this little island
> > and I for one am getting fed up to the back teeth of it.
>
> We are not over crowded, not even close. Go to India, or China, or
anywhere
> in SE asia, and you will see what population densities are possible.
And would you like us to become overcrowded before we do anything? Have you
been to New Zealand (or even France) and seen how much nicer it is not to be
overcrowded?
Duncan Heenan
"Ian Johnston" <ian.u...@talk21.com> wrote in message
news:cCUlhtvFIYkV-pn2-ddhcQpeciyl1@localhost...
Surely it depends whether they are welcome in the host country or not.
Ian Johnston
<duncanheenanR...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
: It's not a drawbridge and a castle, it's a lifeboat. It's drowning people
: swimming to a lifeboat in such numbers that if the lifeboat gets too full we
: all drown. What should the skipper do?
Except the lifeboat isn't remotely full. And it could do with a few,
or a lot, more rowers. And the people swimming towards it are fit and
happy to row.
But similes aside, I personally find this xenophobic crap deeply
distasteful If people want to come and work here, good luck to them.
Ian, who has just signed a UK passport application form for an
Egyptian-born academic.
fraggy
500,000 immigrants each year.
I worked with Portuguese immigrants and one of them told me his mates say
why do you work that's for the English man, also they get given £5000 pounds
to buy a car from the social security.
YOU BET IM BITTER, when I was unemployed I was given nothing being an
English man who had never been unemployed in 20 years.
fragged
PS yes my spelling isn't superb but what do you expect I teach CDT you
don't need a PHD to spell wood or metal
"@(no_spam)o2.pl" <""freelancer1\"@(no_spam)o2.pl"> wrote in message
news:c32327$ssh$1...@atlantis.news.tpi.pl...
> I wish to say Ahoi to all sailors on this group.
> Right now I am looking for the_best_marina_in_UK to get job and be a
> part of community :)
> By, for now.
>
fraggy
does that include the immigrants that were turned away by an aus warship ?
and re settled on an island ?
Top Cat
<tr...@REMOVETHECAPSgoldingweb.co.uk> wrote:
>freelancer wrote:
>
>> Thank You for all of yours voices, the good ones and the others :) I
>> know that You think about me as a person who want to steal yours jobs.
>> But right now in Poland we have just few (about 6-9) realy good marinas.
>> And I promise - I will pay all the tax. I was work in germany and
>> croatia for couple of months and I know how to "live with 10 in one room
>> for 30$ per week or live for 5 months on boar the little boat". So thank
>> you for any information. If You wish to learn more about me pls e-mail
>> me. Best wishes. And sail ho.
>
>
>Good luck with your plans Freelancer, no offence intended by any statements
>made in the group.
>
>Good luck.
>
>Phil
Please don't apologise for me. I am also not xenophobic but it makes
an easy argument to shut me up doesn't it. No doubt Freelancer is a
hard working individual who has no intention of living off the state,
maybe though he is, he would not be the first.
Immigration has made this country what it is, our culture has grown
from it, but over hundreds of years. It is the speed of immigration
that frightens me right now, it is the lack of control over
immigration that frightens me. I also do realise that people have
families and ties and I also understand our countries demography is in
chaos. What I don't understand is the hand outs given to anyone
entering the country, I would not dream of relocating without a firm
job and accommodation, how many arriving at Dover have this today?
Call me racist if you like, I don't think I am, I am proud to be
British, I am sure that is now terribly un-PC, if someone can benefit
the UK then they should be welcome. Maybe I should turn up at New York
with just a bag of clothes and see what happens to me!
Chris
: On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:32:37 +0000 (UTC), Keelworm
You would be refused entry.
Simon Brooke
('duncanheenanR...@tiscali.co.uk') wrote:
>
> "PyroJames" <j.ke...@cranNOfield.SPAMac.uk> wrote in message
> news:4056dd92$1...@news.cranfield.ac.uk...
>> We are not over crowded, not even close. Go to India, or China, or
> anywhere
>> in SE asia, and you will see what population densities are possible.
>
> And would you like us to become overcrowded before we do anything?
> Have you been to New Zealand (or even France) and seen how much nicer
> it is not to be overcrowded?
Or even Scotland...
Yes, it is much nicer not being overcrowded. I do greatly appreciate not
being overcrowded. But does that give me either the right or the excuse
to be rude and offensive to those less well off than myself?
Furthermore, of course, here the 'immigrants' here are English and rich.
They're buying up all the housing stock at prices the locals can't
afford. Consequently, I have quite a lot of friends sleeping rough or
living in vehicles, sheds or yurts up in the woods (in this village
alone, three families, including six children under eight, have lived
all winter in tents without either electricity or running water,
because there's no other accommodation for them, while over a third of
the houses in the village have stood *empty* all winter because they
are 'holiday homes'). Does this cause resentment? Yes it does. Would I
like to see a swingeing tax on second homes? Yes, I would. Does that
give me an excuse to be rude to the incomers? No, I don't believe it
does.
--
si...@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; Woz: 'All the best people in life seem to like LINUX.'
;; <URL:http://www.woz.org/woz/cresponses/response03.html>
Simon Brooke
('duncanheenanR...@tiscali.co.uk') wrote:
It is nothing like a life boat. It isn't even nearly full, and it won't
sink when it is. The planet does have a problem with overcrowding, and
sooner or later the Four Horsemen will sort it out. But in the meantime
we have no more right to unearned advantage than anyone else.
--
si...@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; 99% of browsers can't run ActiveX controls. Unfortunately
;; 99% of users are using the 1% of browsers that can...
[seen on /. 08:04:02]
Duncan Heenan
It is not xenophobia, as it is not based on nationality or race, but on
numbers. If you don't think we're full up, why do you think there's such a
housing shortage, and the fields are getting concreted over at such a rate?
Duncan Heenan
> in message <40575...@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>, Duncan Heenan
> ('duncanheenanR...@tiscali.co.uk') wrote:
>
> >
> > "PyroJames" <j.ke...@cranNOfield.SPAMac.uk> wrote in message
> > news:4056ddd2$1...@news.cranfield.ac.uk...
> >>
> >> Simon Brooke <si...@jasmine.org.uk> wrote in message
> >> news:n40ji1-...@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk...
> >>
> >> > There, but for the grace of God, goes all of us. Any one of us
> >> > could have been born in Poland, or Bosnia, or Rwanda. We happened
> >> > to get lucky. Is that a reason to pull the drawbridge up?
> >>
> >> Well said, Simon.
> >
> > It's not a drawbridge and a castle, it's a lifeboat. It's drowning
> > people swimming to a lifeboat in such numbers that if the lifeboat
> > gets too full we all drown. What should the skipper do?
>
> It is nothing like a life boat. It isn't even nearly full, and it won't
> sink when it is. The planet does have a problem with overcrowding, and
> sooner or later the Four Horsemen will sort it out. But in the meantime
> we have no more right to unearned advantage than anyone else.
>
Ian Johnston
<duncanheenanR...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
: It is not xenophobia, as it is not based on nationality or race, but on
: numbers. If you don't think we're full up, why do you think there's such a
: housing shortage, and the fields are getting concreted over at such a rate?
1) Not where I come from they're not
2) Because family units are smaller than they used to be
3) Because the 60's- 70's baby bulge is bringing up its families
3) Because the economy is growing
And anyway, the fact that houses are being built proves that we're not
"full up". It's a bizarre and distasteful notion - the idea that we
are all somehow teetering on a tiny island, sleeping in rotas and
shouting "Niggers go home" at passing immigrants.
Let 'em in. We need 'em.
Ian
Ian Johnston
<duncanheenanR...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
: Then can I come and live with you?
There goes the neighbouhood. They smell, you know. It's something they
chew.
Ian
:
--
Simon Brooke
('duncanheenanR...@tiscali.co.uk') wrote:
Because there are now more houses per head of population than ever
before; because half the housing stock in rural areas is standing empty
as 'second homes' or 'holiday accommodation'; because young single
people who used to live with their parents or in digs now live in their
own flats; because there's a speculative market in housing.
None of these things has anything to do with the population.
--
si...@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; Sending your money to someone just because they've erected
;; a barrier of obscurity and secrets around the tools you
;; need to use your data does not help the economy or spur
;; innovation. - Waffle Iron Slashdot, June 16th, 2002
Keelworm
> because young single
> people who used to live with their parents or in digs now live in their
> own flats;
I'm not sure about that one. Last I remember the average age for first time
buyers has risen to over 30... more people are living with parents and
family longer, because of the increase in housing prices... The fact is to
buy a two bedroom terrace in my area would set you back over £200k, so a
ninety five percent mortgage (if you can get one) would require a
downpayment of 10k, plus all the associated costs and fees associated in
buying/moving/furnishing a first property...
Laters..
Phil
--
ALTERNATIVE SAILING TERMS:
Fix:
1. The estimated position of a boat.
2. The true position a boat and its crew in are in most of the time.
Sandy Morton
<tr...@REMOVETHECAPSgoldingweb.co.uk> wrote:
> I'm not sure about that one. Last I remember the average age for
> first time buyers has risen to over 30... more people are living
> with parents and family longer, because of the increase in housing
> prices...
In this part of the world more young people are renting - normally
with assistance from the DSS:-(
--
A T (Sandy) Morton
on the Bicycle Island
In the Global Village
http://www.millport.net
Duncan Heenan
> On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:48:15 UTC, "Duncan Heenan"
> <duncanheenanR...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> : It is not xenophobia, as it is not based on nationality or race, but on
> : numbers. If you don't think we're full up, why do you think there's such
a
> : housing shortage, and the fields are getting concreted over at such a
rate?
>
> 1) Not where I come from they're not
They don't want to go where you come from
> 2) Because family units are smaller than they used to be
This trend flattened out by the early 90's
> 3) Because the 60's- 70's baby bulge is bringing up its families
There was no baby bulge in the 60's & 70's. The only demographically
significan baby bulge was the post war baby boom of the late 40's early 50's
> 3) Because the economy is growing
The economy can grow through efficiency gains and without the need to hold
back automation by importing cheap labour
> And anyway, the fact that houses are being built proves that we're not
> "full up". It's a bizarre and distasteful notion - the idea that we
> are all somehow teetering on a tiny island, sleeping in rotas and
> shouting "Niggers go home" at passing immigrants.
I just knew somehow that the hysterical shouting down with the mantra of
'Racist' would kill rational discussion in the end. It always does.
> Let 'em in. We need 'em.
No we don't.
> Ian
>
Keelworm
> In article <c3bs69$ma7$2...@sparta.btinternet.com>, Keelworm
> <tr...@REMOVETHECAPSgoldingweb.co.uk> wrote:
>> I'm not sure about that one. Last I remember the average age for
>> first time buyers has risen to over 30... more people are living
>> with parents and family longer, because of the increase in housing
>> prices...
>
> In this part of the world more young people are renting - normally
> with assistance from the DSS:-(
>
And then after a few years of rent assistance, getting right to buy for 60%
discount on value. But this really is a totally new subject, which I'll
refrain from venting off about!!!! (God how it pains me!!)
Phil.
--
ALTERNATIVE SAILING TERMS:
Anchor:
A heavy, hook-shaped device... designed to hold a vessel in place until (a)
the wind exceeds two knots, (b) the owner and crew depart, or (c) 3 AM.
PyroJames
>
> The why doesn't the OZ government open the borders up to all comers inc.
> China & India? I am sure a few hundred million new Australians would do
> wonders for the place, if that's the case.
Until the last Bush allie got into power in OZ we were moving that way with
excellent links in SE asia and a rapidly expanding economy. Thanks to the
political right taking over, and incidents like the Tampa, sadly Oz is no
longer regarded as the liberal society it once was.
--
PyroJames
Help population control: Sponsor a plague today.
PyroJames
Duncan Heenan <duncanheenanR...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:40575...@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
> > We are not over crowded, not even close. Go to India, or China, or
> anywhere
> > in SE asia, and you will see what population densities are possible.
>
> And would you like us to become overcrowded before we do anything? Have
you
> been to New Zealand (or even France) and seen how much nicer it is not to
be
> overcrowded?
Funnily enough, Mum is a New Zealander and I have spent a lot of time there.
It is nice. As a holiday spot. It is too small, lacks economic power, and
has little in the way of a diverse cosmopolitan society. Middle Earth it may
be, but a place to live, work and travel from, it is not.
I have spent several months in India as well, so I know what populations may
be supported. The rapid groth in India's population is as much a result of
western interference, as anything else. We introduced medicine and trade,
took what we wanted from the place and then refuse to help now that they are
wanting a piece of our wealth. Good for them.
--
PyroJames
"Oh well, a funeral is always better to my mind than a wedding.
I can't bear weddings. A funeral's final. A wedding - well,
it's only an unfortunate stage to somthing else." Graham Greene
PyroJames
>
> "Ian Johnston" <ian.u...@talk21.com> wrote in message
> news:cCUlhtvFIYkV-pn2-iXHmDmbbi5X8@localhost...
> > On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:48:15 UTC, "Duncan Heenan"
> > <duncanheenanR...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >
> > : It is not xenophobia, as it is not based on nationality or race, but
on
> > : numbers. If you don't think we're full up, why do you think there's
such
> a
> > : housing shortage, and the fields are getting concreted over at such a
> rate?
> >
> > 1) Not where I come from they're not
>
> They don't want to go where you come from
>
> > 2) Because family units are smaller than they used to be
>
> This trend flattened out by the early 90's
>
> > 3) Because the 60's- 70's baby bulge is bringing up its families
>
> There was no baby bulge in the 60's & 70's. The only demographically
> significan baby bulge was the post war baby boom of the late 40's early
50's
Funnily enough, babies don't need houses, but 20-30 year olds do. Look at
the sums.
--
PyroJames
The chilling wind turning over leaves and coat tails,
Dirt, syringes, running feet.
PyroJames
fraggy <frag...@SPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c3837d$ikg$1...@hercules.btinternet.com...
> Oh, nonsense, take Oz over the last 100 years for example
>
>
> does that include the immigrants that were turned away by an aus warship ?
> and re settled on an island ?
I dealt with this in a response to Duncan. The times of greatest immigration
were when we had a Labour Government. Guess what we have now?
--
PyroJames
"Kill your boss, quit your job, get a life.
This is not a rehearsal" Chaos Engine
PyroJames
> Call me racist if you like, I don't think I am, I am proud to be
> British, I am sure that is now terribly un-PC, if someone can benefit
> the UK then they should be welcome. Maybe I should turn up at New York
> with just a bag of clothes and see what happens to me!
No I won't call you racist and I agree with the "if someone can benefit
> the UK then they should be welcome", but I would add that a genuine
refugee should be welcome as well. Most people who immigrate work hard, and
are very useful for us. Those few who don't give the rest a bad name.
Because they are often of a different culture, people then target the whole
culture/race. That is something that I have a big problem with.
--
PyroJames
Where I like, when I like, in whatever I like to wear.
Ronald Raygun
>
> fraggy <frag...@SPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c3837d$ikg$1...@hercules.btinternet.com...
>> Oh, nonsense, take Oz over the last 100 years for example
>>
>>
>> does that include the immigrants that were turned away by an aus warship
>> ? and re settled on an island ?
>
> I dealt with this in a response to Duncan. The times of greatest
> immigration were when we had a Labour Government. Guess what we have now?
And guess who voted it in. :-)
PyroJames
martin <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2opt50hfoald3tgrc...@4ax.com...
> I don't think Oz ever was particularly liberal with Asian immigrants.
>
> There's a monument on the coast somewhere between Adelaide and
> Melbourne, commemorating the landing there of 40,000 Chinese slave
> labourers/ miners, who disappeared without trace. They can't all have
> opened Chinese restaurants/laundries.
There were a lot in the 1850's for hte gold ruch, when immigration wasn't
even thought of, and then in the labour years of Hawke and Keating, many
more links were being opened up. At that stage it didn't matter where you
came from, if you could prove you usefulness, you got in.
I have several friends and associates who were either part of general
immigration, or refugees, from Cambodia and Lebanon. The friend from Lebanon
came complete with Israeli bullet hole.
--
PyroJames
Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.
Duncan Heenan
'Once was'? What day was that?
NM
Greeks in Sydney than in Athens, (not that I have any problem with the
migrations of the Greeks, I've mostly found them charming chaps). Also
there are a considerable number of Nederlanders in NZ, coerced by the NZ
gov.
PyroJames
NM <never....@all.nl> wrote in message
news:BWE7c.89680$EI2....@amsnews05.chello.com...
> Is there any truth in the oft quoted statistic that there are more
> Greeks in Sydney than in Athens, (not that I have any problem with the
> migrations of the Greeks, I've mostly found them charming chaps). Also
> there are a considerable number of Nederlanders in NZ, coerced by the NZ
> gov.
Melbourne rather than Sydney I believe. In fact about 99% of the Australian
population are immigrants or of immigrant descent. It is a statistic that is
often neglected by the anti-immigration debate.
(1.1% aboringal
http://members.optusnet.com.au/bnbg6billion/6billionAustralia.htm)
Duncan Heenan
It's all a matter of time horizon. Where did the abos come from?
PyroJames
> On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:24:10 -0000, "Duncan Heenan"
> <duncanheenanR...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >It's all a matter of time horizon. Where did the abos come from?
>
That's "Coolabah Tree" to you Martin! :)
PyroJames
>
>
> It's all a matter of time horizon. Where did the abos come from?
>
They are generally considered to have migrated from SE asia around 100,000
years ago and established a stable tribal, roaming community until English
colonisation 200 odd years ago. That they managed to live a sustainable
lifestyle for longer than Europe can even think about says it all to me.
Considering that the aboriginal's were not given full voting rights until
1967 and that they have a rather longer history to draw upon, I'd suggest
that they are quite entitled to consider that the northern hemisphere
immigration and dominance of the country as a current issue. As much as
Ireland is a current issue in the not so UK.