Miracle dinghy specs
Seasidepeter
dinghy. I'm a Heron sailor myself, and know nothing about the specs for
the Miracle.
Can anybody help with a couple of basics? Mast black band heights, mast
rake, boom black band and an optimum boom height would be a great help.
The info doesn't seem available from the Miracle Association without
joining, and my friend's not ready to do that yet.
TIA - Peter
Pete
I hope this doesn't sound supercilious, but if he's just starting out,
does any of this matter one jot? Presumably the boat comes with a sail,
a mast, a boom and a gooseneck, so why not just put the mast roughly
vertical, attach the boom to the gooseneck, pull the sail to the top of
the mast, pull the foot out along the boom, and go sailing?
Ronald Raygun
> Seasidepeter wrote:
>> Hi - I'm trying to encourage a friend to get on the water with a Miracle
>> dinghy. I'm a Heron sailor myself, and know nothing about the specs for
>> the Miracle.
>>
>> Can anybody help with a couple of basics? Mast black band heights, mast
>> rake, boom black band and an optimum boom height would be a great help.
>>
>> The info doesn't seem available from the Miracle Association without
>> joining, and my friend's not ready to do that yet.
>
> I hope this doesn't sound supercilious, but if he's just starting out,
> does any of this matter one jot? Presumably the boat comes with a sail,
> a mast, a boom and a gooseneck, so why not just put the mast roughly
> vertical, attach the boom to the gooseneck, pull the sail to the top of
> the mast, pull the foot out along the boom, and go sailing?
I couldn't agree more. The parameters requested are completely irrelevant
until he gets to the stage of wanting to participate in organised races
using petty rules.
Boom black band? Sounds like an African American percussion ensemble.
jimguthrie
<seasid...@nothere.co.uk> wrote:
>Can anybody help with a couple of basics? Mast black band heights, mast
>rake, boom black band and an optimum boom height would be a great help.
The P&B site has a setup PDF file for the Miracle which gives the
basic details.
http://www.pinbax.com/docs/Miracle.pdf
At present I tend to set the main mast rake by how comfortable I want
to be ducking under the boom :-) IIRC the rake shown on the P&B file
required that I be a bit slimmer than I am at the moment :-) You
should be able to see the mark of where the previous owner had the
foot of the mast set so that you can start from there. Adjustment is
fairly easy. Nice dinghy and very forgiving :-)
Jim.
Seasidepeter
It does, a bit, if he's not to start his sailing career with brain damage.
Perhaps I should have mentioned that the existing setup on the boat has
the boom set extremely low. It's riveted onto the mast, in a fixed
position more like an OK or a Finn than a forgiving family dinghy. I
can't believe it should be that low, so I thought I'd ask.
It also matters because if I'm going to adjust it for him I'd like it to
be within class rules. Why preclude racing? He might like it.
Pete
> Pete wrote:
>
>> Seasidepeter wrote:
>>
>>> Hi - I'm trying to encourage a friend to get on the water with a
>>> Miracle dinghy. I'm a Heron sailor myself, and know nothing about the
>>> specs for the Miracle.
>>>
>>> Can anybody help with a couple of basics? Mast black band heights,
>>> mast rake, boom black band and an optimum boom height would be a
>>> great help.
>>>
>>> The info doesn't seem available from the Miracle Association without
>>> joining, and my friend's not ready to do that yet.
>>>
>>> TIA - Peter
>>
>>
>> I hope this doesn't sound supercilious, but if he's just starting out,
>> does any of this matter one jot? Presumably the boat comes with a
>> sail, a mast, a boom and a gooseneck, so why not just put the mast
>> roughly vertical, attach the boom to the gooseneck, pull the sail to
>> the top of the mast, pull the foot out along the boom, and go sailing?
>
>
> It does, a bit, if he's not to start his sailing career with brain damage.
>
> Perhaps I should have mentioned that the existing setup on the boat has
> the boom set extremely low. It's riveted onto the mast, in a fixed
> position more like an OK or a Finn than a forgiving family dinghy. I
> can't believe it should be that low, so I thought I'd ask.
1) If you run the sail up the mast from the fixed position of the boom,
does it reach close to the top of the mast? If so, it's a reasonable
assumption that the gooseneck is in the right place (and why would
anyone have put it in the wrong place?). If the sail doesn't get close
to the top of the mast, then that's a valid reason to be suspicious.
However, I don't think that a fixed position boom is inconsistent with
"a forgiving family dinghy". If there's a 'right' position for the boom,
why not put the gooseneck there?
2) Is the boom low at the front because of the goosewing position or at
the back because the mast is raked too much? If the latter, then I would
guess that a Miracle, not being a boy racers boat, wouldn't be designed
to have any significant mast rake. So if the mast isn't substantially
vertical, then that is what I'd adjust.
>
> It also matters because if I'm going to adjust it for him I'd like it to
> be within class rules. Why preclude racing? He might like it.
3) Certainly no reason to preclude racing, but it would be a
particularly fussy club if they were to go round checking on black bands
on a Miracle!
If my original post seemed supercilious, then I'm sorry. But by the same
token, worrying about black band positions and mast rake in a Miracle
being sailed by a beginner did seem a tad bizare.
Best,
P.
Seasidepeter
wavelengths - my experience of racing is- if you win, somebody's going
to start measuring....
jimguthrie
<seasid...@nothere.co.uk> wrote:
>Perhaps I should have mentioned that the existing setup on the boat has
>the boom set extremely low. It's riveted onto the mast, in a fixed
>position more like an OK or a Finn than a forgiving family dinghy. I
>can't believe it should be that low, so I thought I'd ask.
The gooseneck is quite low. Google pictures of the dinghy and look
at the relative height of the boom and the crew seated. And
children sitting up towards the bow will have their bums about six
inches lower in any case. :-)
Adjust the mast rake to make life easier.
Jim.
Mark
> rake, boom black band and an optimum boom height would be a great help.
Someone here will be able to help:
http://www.cvrda.org/community/
Good luck to both of you.
Martin
> Seasidepeter wrote:
>> Pete wrote:
>>
>>> Seasidepeter wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi - I'm trying to encourage a friend to get on the water with a
>>>> Miracle dinghy. I'm a Heron sailor myself, and know nothing about
>>>> the specs for the Miracle.
>>>>
>>>> Can anybody help with a couple of basics? Mast black band heights,
>>>> mast rake, boom black band and an optimum boom height would be a
>>>> great help.
>>>>
>>>> The info doesn't seem available from the Miracle Association without
>>>> joining, and my friend's not ready to do that yet.
>>>>
>>>> TIA - Peter
>>>
>>>
>>> I hope this doesn't sound supercilious, but if he's just starting
>>> out, does any of this matter one jot? Presumably the boat comes with
>>> a sail, a mast, a boom and a gooseneck, so why not just put the mast
>>> roughly vertical, attach the boom to the gooseneck, pull the sail to
>>> the top of the mast, pull the foot out along the boom, and go sailing?
> 2) Is the boom low at the front because of the goosewing position or at
> the back because the mast is raked too much? If the latter, then I would
> guess that a Miracle, not being a boy racers boat, wouldn't be designed
> to have any significant mast rake. So if the mast isn't substantially
> vertical, then that is what I'd adjust.
If the boom is too low at the stern it could be because the main has
reached its end of life.
Ronald Raygun
> It does, a bit, if he's not to start his sailing career with brain damage.
Nah. He might as well learn to duck. :-)
> Perhaps I should have mentioned that the existing setup on the boat has
> the boom set extremely low. It's riveted onto the mast, in a fixed
> position more like an OK or a Finn than a forgiving family dinghy. I
> can't believe it should be that low, so I thought I'd ask.
If there is no evidence of it having been moved, or of the mast having been
shortened at the bottom, might this not suggest that it is as it should be?
> It also matters because if I'm going to adjust it for him I'd like it to
> be within class rules.
You're right, of course. I think the thrust of Pete's and my comments was
merely that if the immediate target is simply to get your friend out on
the water and learning to sail, then all he needs, apart from someone to
teach him, is a capable boat, any boat, no matter whether it is in class or
even of any class.
> Why preclude racing? He might like it.
Nobody would want to preclude it, but first he needs to learn to sail,
and then to race informally. Any adjustments can wait until such time
as he's ready to race formally.
I've just thought of another potential problem. Is it possible the
mast and boom came off a different class of boat? If so, it may not
even be possible to make it comply with class rules.
Seasidepeter
discovered it finishes nearly two feet from the mast top. Pigs in pokes
come to mind, not to mention sails in bags...I'll have to find sail
measurements now, so I know whether it's the mast or the sail that's wrong.
Thanks to all who responded - I'll post back when/if we triumph.
Martin
Years ago I had an Italian colleague who owned a Miracle. He used to
sail it single handed. He capsized it close to the shore on an Italian
lake. On the bank were two old women sitting knitting. He could hear
them making comments on the probability of him drowning while he
struggled to right his capsized boat. "It was a Miracle I didn't drown"
Mike Coon
> Years ago I had an Italian colleague who owned a Miracle. He used to
> sail it single handed. He capsized it close to the shore on an Italian
> lake. On the bank were two old women sitting knitting. He could hear
> them making comments on the probability of him drowning while he
> struggled to right his capsized boat. "It was a Miracle I didn't
> drown"
Was one of them named Madame Defarge? (That would be more appropriate to
being decapitated by the boom, I admit!)
Mike.
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Martin
> Martin wrote:
>> Years ago I had an Italian colleague who owned a Miracle. He used to
>> sail it single handed. He capsized it close to the shore on an Italian
>> lake. On the bank were two old women sitting knitting. He could hear
>> them making comments on the probability of him drowning while he
>> struggled to right his capsized boat. "It was a Miracle I didn't
>> drown"
>
> Was one of them named Madame Defarge? (That would be more appropriate to
> being decapitated by the boom, I admit!)
>
> Mike.
LOL
Pete
> I suspect you may be right, RR. On rigging the main yesterday I
> discovered it finishes nearly two feet from the mast top. Pigs in pokes
> come to mind, not to mention sails in bags...I'll have to find sail
> measurements now, so I know whether it's the mast or the sail that's wrong.
>
> Thanks to all who responded - I'll post back when/if we triumph.
The best that I could find with a quick web search was a sail area of
8.9m^2. This is presumably the sum of main and jib, but could give you a
starting point. (Two feet short is a big number!). Does the sail have
the miracle logo? If so, that might suggest that the sail's OK, although
the class that I sail (British Moth) specifies a 'small' sail, much
along the lines of the Laser Radial, and so you might still be unsure.
Come what may, I'm sure that we all wish you luck in getting you mate on
the water to enjoy all the delights of small boat sailing.
Adrian Simpson
Seasidepeter <seasid...@nothere.co.uk> writes
>>
>I suspect you may be right, RR. On rigging the main yesterday I
>discovered it finishes nearly two feet from the mast top. Pigs in pokes
>come to mind, not to mention sails in bags...I'll have to find sail
>measurements now, so I know whether it's the mast or the sail that's
>wrong.
>
Another thought on this, has the sail been cut down to act as a storm or
cruising sail ?
Adrian
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jimguthrie
<seasid...@nothere.co.uk> wrote:
>I suspect you may be right, RR. On rigging the main yesterday I
>discovered it finishes nearly two feet from the mast top. Pigs in pokes
>come to mind, not to mention sails in bags...I'll have to find sail
>measurements now, so I know whether it's the mast or the sail that's wrong.
>
>Thanks to all who responded - I'll post back when/if we triumph.
If I get the chance, I'll get my Miracle on its side this weekend and
measure up the mast, gooseneck, etc.
Jim.
Seasidepeter
a racing nerd - but it's handy to know the basic measurements on any
boat....
jimguthrie
<seasid...@nothere.co.uk> wrote:
>> If I get the chance, I'll get my Miracle on its side this weekend and
>> measure up the mast, gooseneck, etc.
>>
>> Jim.
>That would be great - thank you. I know I'm risking being thought of as
>a racing nerd - but it's handy to know the basic measurements on any
>boat....
I hooked a surveyor's tape onto the shackle on the mainsail halyard
and hauled it up till it stopped in the pulley at the top of the mast.
The tape read 17' 4 1/2" to the top of the fore deck. From the top of
the foredeck to the centre of the pivot on the gooseneck was 1' 7".
The distance between the bottom of the mast and the front bulwark is 1
1/4".
The mast is a Jack Holt one and the mainsail is also a Jack Holt one.
I suspect the mainsail is quite old and both mast and sail could be
the originals. I bought the boat at least third hand a couple of
years ago and don't know much about its earlier history. The sail
number is 3497. When the main sail is rigged - i.e. pulled to the top
of the mast - the foot of the sail next to the mast is around six
inches above the boom. The downhaul can bring this down to about 2"
above the boom.
With my mast raked as shown above, the boom sits about five degrees
above horizontal. With me sitting on the thwart, the boom is level
with my nose. I originally set the mast rake to match the figures
shown in the data from the P&B web site but found the boom a tad low
for comfort so angled the mast a bit farther forward to raise the boom
a bit. I sail it single handed so tend to sit on the thwart in
lighter winds and I look for a bit more clearance under the boom than
might be recommended for a racing rig.
Jim.
Seasidepeter
That's a great help Jim - thank you so much for taking the trouble.
You've provided exactly the comparison measurements I was hoping for.
I'll get down to the club the next decent day and start tinkering...
thanks again.