Eberspacher diesel heaters
RichT
much noise? Are they easy to fit? And most importantly are they safe?
Duncan Bennett
"RichT" <Ri...@biscuits.com> wrote in message
news:ana9u0$r53$1...@wanadoo.fr...
> I've never been on a boat with one of these. Are they any good? Do they
make
> much noise? Are they easy to fit? And most importantly are they safe?
>
below you get a slight noise from the fan, it makes more of a noise in the
cockpit as you get the noise of the fan, the noise of the combustion and a
noise from the exhaust. Having said that it's not intrusive although at 3
am in a quiet anchorage.....
They aren't difficult to fit but they do need some sizeable holes in the
bulkhead for the hot air pipe runs. They run on diesel so they are probably
relatively safe although you sometimes get the smell of the exhaust fumes
when sat in the cockpit if there has been a wind shift.
db
Derek Lumb
Having said that ours gets the cabin nicely warm in under an hour and
automatically reduces output and noise as it warms up.
Safety - I think that they are very safe if properly installed - that means
making sure the exhaust fumes cannot get pulled back into the clean cabin
air intake.
Ease of fitting - depends on how easy the duct runs are - I fitted one to my
Sigma 33 last winter and it was a sod of a job - mainly because I had to
reroute the bilg pump outlet pipes to get the cabin ducts in. If you do
decide to go ahead, get yourself decent holesaws including one of at least
75mm - the multiblade ones are not up to it - Screwfix do reasonably priced
ones and I ended up buying about six differnt sizes.
"Duncan Bennett" <duncanbennet...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:anaaq7$p4e$1...@knossos.btinternet.com...
Sandy Morton
Derek Lumb <de...@cawarra.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
snip
> Screwfix do reasonably priced
> ones and I ended up buying about six differnt sizes.
B & Q do a range of hole cutters which are fantastic - can't remember the
name but they are American and painted white. You will have to buy or
make an arbor to fit. Ours succesfully cut through a 1 inch mild steel
engine mounting bolt and was still sharp.
--
A T (Sandy) Morton
on the Bicycle Island
In the Global Village
Graham Frankland
news:anaaq7$p4e$1...@knossos.btinternet.com...
>
down
> below you get a slight noise from the fan, it makes more of a noise in the
> cockpit as you get the noise of the fan, the noise of the combustion and a
> noise from the exhaust. Having said that it's not intrusive although at 3
> am in a quiet anchorage.....
>
There's an exhaust silencer available at extra cost but I don't know how
well they work.
We have Eberspacher and I wouldn't want a boat without one. Fitted a Mikuni
to our last boat but wouldn't buy another of those.
As others have said, the fitting is quite straight forward but drilling
bulkheads for the pipe runs can be a bastard.
Graham.
Ralph Ferrand
gdf...@nospam.globalnet.co.uk (Graham Frankland) wrote:
They sound wonderful ... are they expensive? Is it practical to fit them
to a twenty eight footer?
Ralph Ferrand
Gib'Sea 28
Burnham on Sea Sailing Club
Gib'Sea Association ~ www.gibsea.org.uk
Peter Sheltrum
Despite several attempts (and much cost) by recognised agents it never
failed to pollute the cabin.
Consequently when I had a new boat I deliberately failed to fit one - I have
regretted it ever since.
I understand from friends that there were significant enhancements in the
late nineties and that these problems are eliminated.
I think the upshot of what I am saying is that if the unit is old - beware.
Peter Sheltrum
"RichT" <Ri...@biscuits.com> wrote in message
news:ana9u0$r53$1...@wanadoo.fr...
Brian Mitchell
news:10334850...@auth2.dns.griffin.net.uk...
> I had a boat with an Eberspacher, a Sadler 34 built around 1985.
>
> Despite several attempts (and much cost) by recognised agents it never
> failed to pollute the cabin.
How would it pollute the cabin if it were installed correctly? It only
passes warmed air via ducting into the cabin, the heating jobby should be
sited away from the cabin and exhausted overboard. If the jobby was faulty
it still wouldn't pollute the cabin.
Cheers, Brian
Alisdair Gurney
"Ralph Ferrand" <stu...@nospam.thedesignhouse-bristol.co.uk> wrote in
message news:memo.2002100...@designhouse.cix.co.uk...
> >
> >
> They sound wonderful ... are they expensive? Is it practical to fit them
> to a twenty eight footer?
>
> Ralph Ferrand
>
> Gib'Sea 28
> Burnham on Sea Sailing Club
> Gib'Sea Association ~ www.gibsea.org.uk
I fitted an Eberspacher a year and a half ago in my 27' Vega,
I wish I'd done it fifteen years earlier. The heater has
extended the season considerably, and uses next to
no fuel.
Alisdair
Robert Miles
Cabin has two radiators......
Very homely.. until you kick them..
Bob
"Brian Mitchell" <br...@mitchellworld.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ALjm9.11693$J47.1031228@stones...
Graham Frankland
message news:memo.2002100...@designhouse.cix.co.uk...
> > Mikuni
> > to our last boat but wouldn't buy another of those.
> >
> > As others have said, the fitting is quite straight forward but drilling
> > bulkheads for the pipe runs can be a bastard.
> >
> to a twenty eight footer?
>
says, it also extended our sailing season. Autoelectricians are sometimes
cheaper than chandlers but IIRC I guess you won't get much change out of
£800 or so for one to suit 28ft boat.
Graham.
Peter Kay
<gdf...@nospam.globalnet.co.uk> expounded publicly:
:>
:>We have Eberspacher and I wouldn't want a boat without one. Fitted a Mikuni
:>to our last boat but wouldn't buy another of those.
:>
I was looking at some gas heaters at the boat show, same design as the
eberspacher but ran on Calor gas. Around half the price of Eberspacher
at 500ukp, anyone any experience of them?
>
Regards,
Peter
Remove everything after uk to reply
TopCat
TopCat
<whoseyo...@pimpslap.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 02 Oct 2002 00:23:46 +0100, TopCat <jool...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>
>>How much? enquiring minds need to know, cannot find a price online
>>Julian
>
>prolly cos most sell as high as they can at huge margins....
>
>eberspachers are _very_ common on long distance trucks, and prolly a
>lot cheaper than from a chandlery
>
>http://www.eberspacher.com/Eberhome.html
I looked through this site, but found no suppliers, I then did a few
searches on google such as 'eberspacher uk sales' etc, but only got
adverts for boats with the units fitted. I would like to see one, and
get an idea of dimensions etc.
As I think about it there is a truck supplier on the industrial estate
by where I work, I think I might have a wander over. Thanks for the
help anyway.
Julian
TopCat
<whoseyo...@pimpslap.com> wrote:
>
>what was wrong with the "find a dealer" link?
>
>http://www.eberspacher.com/dealers.html
>
<snipped more than enough dealers
What I actually meant was none particularly close to me, which is a
shame. I did not know anything about these until they were mentioned
on the group 2 days ago. If I had I would have looked out at the show,
as it was the only heater I saw was a little gas heater which took
cartridge gas, had unseen flame, and no flame out device. Cheap n
nasty and in my opinion looking pretty dangerous on an unstable
platform.
My interest is piqued due to the excellent write ups on here by people
who have them fitted.
Julian
RichT
"Duncan Bennett" <duncanbennet...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:anaaq7$p4e$1...@knossos.btinternet.com...
>
> news:ana9u0$r53$1...@wanadoo.fr...
> > I've never been on a boat with one of these. Are they any good? Do they
> make
> > much noise? Are they easy to fit? And most importantly are they safe?
> >
> Ours keeps the saloon and aft cabin nicely warm. It does make a noise,
down
> below you get a slight noise from the fan, it makes more of a noise in the
> cockpit as you get the noise of the fan, the noise of the combustion and a
> noise from the exhaust.
So does the burner have to be mounted in the cockpit locker? And how much
space do they take up? My locker is already extremely full.....
>
>
Peter Styles
Peter Kay wrote:
>
> I was looking at some gas heaters at the boat show, same design as the
> eberspacher but ran on Calor gas. Around half the price of Eberspacher
> at 500ukp, anyone any experience of them?
> >
>
TYhere's a review in this months Sailing Today (I think I've got the
right mag)) on heaters running on different fuels. It includes some
pictures of the way in which each one works, so you might be able to
guess potential problems etc..
Pete.
dennis.pogson
tend towards being suitable for bigger boats. We have nine radiators and a
hot-air blower in a Beneteau 50, each radiator has a thermostatic valve and
you can control the heat in each cabin to suit individual tastes. Go for
much higher output than the sales literature recommends, and control the
output via 'stats, ours is 12KW. The cost? You might be pleasantly
surprised!
"Robert Miles" <rmi...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:kqncna...@192.168.1.1...
Rainer Thonnes
news:qndkpukl57eilj926...@4ax.com...
>
> what was wrong with the "find a dealer" link?
<huge list snipped>
That's what one might call excessively helpful, GF.
You don't perchance hold shares in the company, do you?
victrorious
"Peter Kay" <p...@mistressofmourne.com@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:dvujpu8cvv4ao3s25...@4ax.com...
Gas is just too explosive to have on a boat, and mixed with a little petrol
(from the tender outboard perhaps) the bang is enough to take most of the
deck off a 40ft boat.
I have seen the devastation of the sailtraining yacht that blew up at Poole
some years ago, and as a result I will not have gas or petrol on board.
I spent a few years driving trucks and many cabs have Eberspacher diesel
heaterswhich have always been very efficient and effective.
I have been to two local Commercial breakers yards and they both offer a
vast choice of S/H units for about £150.00.
I have not as yet reserched the cost of getting a qualified service engineer
to check the unit, but it cant be too expensive..can it?
Russell
www.victorious.co.uk
Rainer Thonnes
>
> but they are the only way to heat a small mobile accommodation space
> afloat or ashore
Of course. Apart, that is, from paraffin-burning radiators, solid
fuel stoves, electric heating (only feasible if an engine is running),
waste engine heat (ditto), gas fires, ect.
Speaking of which, catalytic heaters used to be all the rage
20 or so years ago, but seem to have gone out of fashion.
Is this just because of (justified) gas paranoia, or was there
a condensation problem too?
Ralph Ferrand
jool...@yahoo.com (TopCat) wrote:
I have also been swayed by the glowing reviews in here as my boat is to
stay in the ogin all winter. I called a company in Winterbourne who were
very helpful and quoted me a boat show special of £956 including VAT
bastard's pound of flesh. That is for the complete marine kit which
includes a whoopy doo electronic timer which gives the boat an hour a day
or whatever to keep her dry. The geezer that I conversed with seemed very
knowledgeable and helpful. I mentioned that Guy had suggested buying a
truck heater and he said that one could do so and he had priced it up but
by the time you buy all the bits to fit it in a marine environment it was
not really any cheaper. He is going to send me a brochure. I am now
wracking my brains to think how I can raise a grand!
PyroJames
> On Wed, 02 Oct 2002 11:13:31 GMT, "Rainer Thonnes"
> <rai...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >"Guy Fawkes" <whoseyo...@pimpslap.com> wrote in message
> >news:gkhlpucral0e0clpe...@4ax.com...
> >>
> >> but they are the only way to heat a small mobile accommodation space
> >> afloat or ashore
> >
> >Of course. Apart, that is, from paraffin-burning radiators,
>
or parafin burning stove, a la Taylors, which works very nicely thank you.
Except that you can't leave it on over night, so it can be a bit frosty when
you climb out of you bunk in the morning. :)
Pyro.
Yes, real frost, on the inside.
Alisdair Gurney
"Ralph Ferrand" <stu...@nospam.thedesignhouse-bristol.co.uk> wrote in
message news:memo.2002100...@designhouse.cix.co.uk...
> I have also been swayed by the glowing reviews in here as my boat is to
> stay in the ogin all winter. I called a company in Winterbourne who were
> very helpful and quoted me a boat show special of £956 including VAT
> bastard's pound of flesh. That is for the complete marine kit which
> includes a whoopy doo electronic timer which gives the boat an hour a day
> or whatever to keep her dry. The geezer that I conversed with seemed very
> knowledgeable and helpful. I mentioned that Guy had suggested buying a
> truck heater and he said that one could do so and he had priced it up but
> by the time you buy all the bits to fit it in a marine environment it was
> not really any cheaper. He is going to send me a brochure. I am now
> wracking my brains to think how I can raise a grand!
>
> Ralph Ferrand
>
> Gib'Sea 28
> Burnham on Sea Sailing Club
> Gib'Sea Association ~ www.gibsea.org.uk
The obvious differences between the marine version I fitted on my
boat and the diesel heater on my car are:
- the exhaust from the auto system is a foot long pipe under the vehicle
- the exhaust in the boat is via a flexible pipe with about
an inch of mineral wool as an insulator (it still gets very hot and
needs careful routing)
- there's a fancy stainless through hull for the exhaust which will
probably cost >20 quid if bought separately
- the marine system includes a thermostat and what is essentially a
central heating control panel, unlike the car which has its control
cables interleaved with the climate control system.
- the marine system has several speeds/temperatures, but I suspect
an older heater salvaged off a lorry would probably be full on or off.
If I had the time I might have chosen to go for a basic version salvaged
from
a scrap yard, and put up with the tinkering to get it to work, but that's
only 'cos I
like tinkering.
Alisdair
victrorious
"Alisdair Gurney" <ne...@agurney.com> wrote in message
news:anfc2j$c7i$1$830f...@news.demon.co.uk...
for work (some programmable weekly to account for drivers days off) Also
thermostat with small control panel to adjust temp timer etc.
90% of trucks I have driven have these as standard and I stopped driving for
a living ten years ago so these "extras" will most likely be with any second
hand unit from the breakers
Alisdair Gurney
"victrorious" <victo...@victoriousnospam.co.uk> wrote in message
news:anfgf2$enf$1...@venus.btinternet.com...
> Truck cab heaters have timers to defrost the cab before the driver arrives
> for work (some programmable weekly to account for drivers days off) Also
> thermostat with small control panel to adjust temp timer etc.
> 90% of trucks I have driven have these as standard and I stopped driving
for
> a living ten years ago so these "extras" will most likely be with any
second
> hand unit from the breakers
>
For 150 quid I would only expect the heater, I'd be surprised if the
breakers
stripped out the controls and thermostat. Good if they did though.
Alisdair
Peter Kay
<victo...@victoriousnospam.co.uk> expounded publicly:
:>
:>Gas is just too explosive to have on a boat, and mixed with a little petrol
:>(from the tender outboard perhaps) the bang is enough to take most of the
:>deck off a 40ft boat.
:>I have seen the devastation of the sailtraining yacht that blew up at Poole
:>some years ago, and as a result I will not have gas or petrol on board.
:>I spent a few years driving trucks and many cabs have Eberspacher diesel
:>heaterswhich have always been very efficient and effective.
:>I have been to two local Commercial breakers yards and they both offer a
:>vast choice of S/H units for about £150.00.
:>I have not as yet reserched the cost of getting a qualified service engineer
:>to check the unit, but it cant be too expensive..can it?
Point taken about gas although I already have a gas cooker on board.
I've come across someone selling an Eberspacher D1 LC 1800Kw heater
for 200 ukp, anyone any opinion as to suitability for a 29 footer?
Peter Kay
<pst...@bioch.ox.ac.uk> expounded publicly:
:>
:>
Thanks for that, I'll try to pick up a ST.
Graham Frankland
> I've come across someone selling an Eberspacher D1 LC 1800Kw heater
> for 200 ukp, anyone any opinion as to suitability for a 29 footer?
> >
Hi Peter,
We had a D1LC on the Centaur, it should be O.K unless you will be on board
in freezing conditions, in which case go for the next one up. Check it out
thoroughly though, they're expensive to have repaired. If the pipework isn't
with it IIRC it's about £20/metre and the skin fitting around £50ish.
Not bothering with the Westerly Storm then?
Graham.
Peter Kay
<gdf...@nospam.globalnet.co.uk> expounded publicly:
:>"Peter Kay" <p...@mistressofmourne.com@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
:>
Cheers Graham, apparently it can be seen working so I might have a
look over the weekend.
:>Not bothering with the Westerly Storm then?
:>
Asking price 49,500 ukp
Shortfall in current cash situation - 49,450 ukp :-(((
Ralph Ferrand
(Alisdair Gurney) wrote:
I contacted a local truck breakers who wanted Ł250 plus VAT bastard's
pound of flesh. This included all the timer and control circuits but was
24volt. It was supposedly off a recent model and was aged at between 2 & 3
years. My boat has 12 volt electrics. Although I have two batteries they
are switched as #1 & #2. Does anyone know of a way of taking a 24 volt
feed off the batteries without upsetting the rest of the electrics?
Ian Rodger
Ralph Ferrand <stu...@nospam.thedesignhouse-bristol.co.uk> wrote in message
news:memo.2002100...@designhouse.cix.co.uk...
Ralph,
There is no easy way to do this as your two batteries will have a common
negative connection, preventing the required series connection you need to
get 24v. DC/DC conversion can get 24v from 12v but as the Eberspacher draws
high current while the glowpin is energised (about 9A at start up IIRC on
12v version) this would also be difficult. Probably be easier to seek out a
12v version.
Cheers,
Ian
Terry
interest and would like to pose two items if I may.
1) We have a 12 volt ex Volkswagen heater that originally ran on
gasoline (petrol); we have all it's (very basic) controls/fuel
pump/filter etc. Have tried it briefly in the workshop on diesel
and it ignites and runs using the same glow plug. We are an
extremely 'handy' family and apart from the time and effort
involved see no problem installing it in our Westerly Tiger
(T148), which a has a Volvo MD1B diesel engine. Intending to have
it blow warm air forward into the main cabin, positioning it
alongside the engine. An Eber takes several amps and the MD1 has
notoriously low output amps from it's generator/starter! So the
plan also includes adding a 60 amp alternator to the engine for
charging larger batteries for everything electrical which tend to
get added, not just the heater.
Any advice pro-con this plan?
2) We have a 'Duplex' two burner plus grill propane operated
gimballed cooking unit with a single 15 pound tank/cylinder
mounted in the locker; intend to add a second 15 pounder.
Unfortunately the easily available and cheap 20 pounders used for
barbecues won't fit the locker and I feel gas not safe anywhere
below. We turn it off after every use right at the cylinder.
Would never use propane for boat heating anyway.
In regard to the heater we still have the complete
paraffin/kerosene hand pumped pressure heater (Taylor style)
which is mounted on a bulkhead above mid height. It needs some
serious repairs also! In fact the whole boat has been 'on shore'
for over ten years due to retirement, business activities a
lengthy illness and a death in the family in 1997.
Would be most appreciative of any feed back as I 'get back' to
working on the boat.
Terry. Town of Torbay. Eastern Newfoundland. Canada.
Simon
mine has just become the UK agent for Webasto heaters and I am sure would do
anyone a good deal as he is just starting up. they have a website:
www.ketogroup.com and speak to Toby
Cheers
Simon
"TopCat" <jool...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2jbkpus2tblc5jgn3...@4ax.com...
TopCat
wrote:
>Whilst not wanting to sound too much like a commercial plug, a friend of
>mine has just become the UK agent for Webasto heaters and I am sure would do
>anyone a good deal as he is just starting up. they have a website:
>www.ketogroup.com and speak to Toby
>
>Cheers
>Simon
Can you check the address please, this one could not be found.
Julian
Simon
You could phone him on 01202 715171
Cheersnews:dcmtpu8g441cr0q1i...@4ax.com...
Peter Kay
stu...@nospam.thedesignhouse-bristol.co.uk (Ralph Ferrand) expounded
publicly:
:>>
:>>
:>>
:>>
:>>
:>I contacted a local truck breakers who wanted Ł250 plus VAT bastard's
:>pound of flesh. This included all the timer and control circuits but was
:>24volt. It was supposedly off a recent model and was aged at between 2 & 3
:>years. My boat has 12 volt electrics. Although I have two batteries they
:>are switched as #1 & #2. Does anyone know of a way of taking a 24 volt
:>feed off the batteries without upsetting the rest of the electrics?
:>
I've just got back from Hull where I bought an Eberspacher D1 with
rheostsat for 200 ukp from a chap who put an ad on uk.rec.boats.power.
I've seen it running and it seems to be spot on. He still has three
left, I'll give anyone who is interested his e-mail address.
Can't wait to get it fitted, no more cold nights wearing socks in bed
:-)
Graham Frankland
news:3D9E3410...@nf.sympatico.ca...
> New to this group; read this Eberspacher thread with much
> interest and would like to pose two items if I may.
>
> 1) We have a 12 volt ex Volkswagen heater that originally ran on
> gasoline (petrol); we have all it's (very basic) controls/fuel
> pump/filter etc. Have tried it briefly in the workshop on diesel
> and it ignites and runs using the same glow plug.
I don't know anything about the models installed in cars but our D3LC marine
heater's instructions says it can burn diesel, diesel/petrol mix or neat
petrol in very cold climates where diesel would wax.
Main current draw is on startup but it's quite easy to run the battery too
low for engine starting so your idea for uprating batteries is a good idea.
Always isolate one for engine start only.
Graham.
Graham Frankland
news:anmc3v$gcv$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Whilst not wanting to sound too much like a commercial plug, a friend of
> mine has just become the UK agent for Webasto heaters and I am sure would
do
> anyone a good deal as he is just starting up. they have a website:
Don't know what their newer models are like but I know 2 people with Webasto
heaters onboard and in both cases, the heaters won't start unless the
engine's running. Cable sizes are as specified.
Graham.
TopCat
<whoseyo...@pimpslap.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 5 Oct 2002 16:09:19 +0000 (UTC), Peter Kay
><p...@mistressofmourne.com@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>
>
>>Can't wait to get it fitted, no more cold nights wearing socks in bed
>>:-)
>
>real mean always wear socks in bed.....
real men, then sleep alone ;-)
Julian
Terry
Graham: Thank you.
Yes as mentioned, understanding that it was diesel or petrol we
have tried it briefly on diesel and it fires and continues to
run! So unless the metering and/or glow plug are different ....
however as a result of Peter's advice about manuals now have a
local contact address which seems to be a small company with I
think expertise and local experience. So should get some good
advice in this next to the Atlantic province of Canada!.
You are correct. Not running the engine long enough to recharge
the battery was a constant problem. So dual separately switched
batteries are intended and, if possible, a charger (with
trickle/float feature) from shore mains supply. Via an isolation
transformer to avoid electrolytic corrosion of a sea earth/ground
(the boat itself), when berthed!
Appreciate the response. Terry.
PS. Not only have a complete 'older' Espar heater also have some
spares from another one! So obviously if we've got the main unit
am anxious to use it and buy the necessary fittings to 'do it
properly'!
Lin...@nomail.com
>eberspachers are _very_ common on long distance trucks, and prolly a
>lot cheaper than from a chandlery
The one source to which I've been directed sell these but they switch
off automatically after one hour. Please could someone say whether
this is normal practice for those which come from road vehicles or
not?
It's getting a bit chilly these nights!
Lindsay
Alisdair Gurney
<Lin...@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:3daac727....@news.ision.net.uk...
All versions that I've encountered have a timer - default setting is to
switch
off after an hour, but a couple of button presses will extend that.
Alisdair
Ralph Ferrand
wrote:
I have investigated this and found that most truck heaters are 24volt but
BT use the heaters extensively in their vehicles which are available at
reasonable money. BT don't encourage their staff to sit around in the vans
brewing tea so set the heaters to turn off after an hour. This can be
sorted fairly easily. What can't be sorted so easily is the marinisation
of them; I priced up the parts needed to fit one to my boat and whilst
there was a saving over the new kit it wasn't sufficient to tempt me.
Another consideration with these heaters that has been glossed over is
their thirst for electrical power. I have been reading an article on
heaters from a back issue of Sailing Today and it suggests that these
heaters cost about 15p per kilowatt/hour to run with diesel at regular
marina prices. The marina I use charges 12p per unit for electricity which
suggests that when in the marina it would be cheaper to use the shore
power with a fan heater to warm up. I know the boat isn't in the marina
all the time but I guess most of the time one goes down below it is! I
haven't given up completely on the idea of a diesel heater, but it
requires more thought I think.
mike
the BT vehicles and are meant to heat the rear cabins on the large vehicles
of the work gangs. I understand these heaters are fitted with a timer
specific to BT and is set to stop after 1 hour and not come on for another
hour.
I have removed the timers and fitted 3 of these same heaters after a minor
wiring alterstion to enable them to run as normal on a Rheostat or a
thermostat and have not had any problems. the wiring diagrams can be got
from the www.espar.com website under technical manuals plus it has the full
tech manual for the heaters if you need to download it. Happy heating
Mike
<Lin...@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:3daac727....@news.ision.net.uk...
Lin...@nomail.com
from BT vehicles - some of you are just so clever! I will have a
look at the tech manuals and may just manage to sort out what to do -
it may even encourage me to get to grips with the wiring of my little
boat which has, I think, grown like topsy over the years - just
thinking about it has just brought to mind the very old Panorama
programme about the Italian spaghetti harvest.
All of which leads to another question. My engine is a 4/108 fitted
with an alternator of the same type as fitted to Rover 3500's. I feel
that it is not recharging the batteries as efficiently as it should
and it now occurs to me that an alternator designed for a relatively
high revving petrol engine is probably not suitable for a lower
revving diesel.
I have already increased the battery drain by running an inverter
(150w) to run or recharge the laptop etc and if I also fit an
Epersbacher, this will further deplete the batteries (2 good, new,
100A marine type) so I'm also wondering whether I should replace the
alternator - if so, with which type and where might I find a decent
one?
Thank you.
Lindsay
Alisdair Gurney
> Another consideration with these heaters that has been glossed over is
> their thirst for electrical power. I have been reading an article on
> heaters from a back issue of Sailing Today and it suggests that these
> heaters cost about 15p per kilowatt/hour to run with diesel at regular
> marina prices. The marina I use charges 12p per unit for electricity which
> suggests that when in the marina it would be cheaper to use the shore
> power with a fan heater to warm up. I know the boat isn't in the marina
> all the time but I guess most of the time one goes down below it is! I
> haven't given up completely on the idea of a diesel heater, but it
> requires more thought I think.
I would contest the 15p per KwH - my local marina is 39p/litre so the
implication is that I would get a little over two hours from a litre
with output equivalent to1 Kw. No, there's definitely a lot more
heat for a lot less fuel than that.
wrt the electrical consumption, there's a big drain on the battery for
about a minute to start the heater, and then again when shutting it down,
but during normal running the boat electrics only drive the fan and the
fuel pump. If my battery's low I simply run the engine until the fuel's
alight.
Alisdair
Graham Frankland
> heaters from a back issue of Sailing Today and it suggests that these >
heaters cost about 15p per kilowatt/hour to run with diesel at regular
> marina prices.
>
From Eberspacher manual, D1LC Compact , 4 levels of output:-
Heating capacity in watts - 2200 / 1800 / 1200 / 850
Power when running:- 30w / 22w / 10w / 8w
Fuel, litres/hour:- 0.27 / 0.21 / 0.14 /
0.10
Power at startup for approx 45 seconds, 250w @ 12v
All figures above quoted to be within +/- 10%
Graham.
Ralph Ferrand
gdf...@nospam.globalnet.co.uk (Graham Frankland) wrote:
These figures are a lot better than the figures quoted by Sailing Today
last year; they come out at around 4 1/2 p a kilowatt/hour. This makes the
grand investment a little more palatable. Perhaps I had best go back to
working out where I am going to borrow a grand from!
Ralph Ferrand
stu...@nospam.thedesignhouse-bristol.co.uk (Ralph Ferrand) wrote:
Just scrounged the latest long term test in Sailing Today, from Jezza (the
floating bear), and it gives a much better dosh per Kw/Hr figure. I have
just ordered my fully marinised D2 kit. I'll let you know how I get on
with fitting it.
Graham Frankland
>I have
> just ordered my fully marinised D2 kit. I'll let you know how I get on
> with fitting it.
>
it was sleeting outside.
Graham.
Lemain
>> I have
> just ordered my fully marinised D2 kit. I'll let you know how I get on
> with fitting it.
I fitted a Mikuni, in 2000, a much cheaper version, and fitted it myself.
It was a pain to fit and it's a bit noisy. I wish I'd paid the extra for
the Eberspacher but as far as I am concerned it is the only way to heat a
sailboat. I will get a small cheap fan heater for use in the marina this
year because it's quieter. The cost of the fuel is neither here not there.
Good luck with it - I'm sure you won't regret it.
David
Ralph Ferrand
wrote:
It arrived yesterday and I am leaving work at lunchtime to start the
install. I hope that it has stopped pissing with rain by then! I am not
going to re-circulate the cabin air as Sailing Today suggests that one
doesn't benefit from the drying effect though it'll heat up quicker.
Lemain
> It arrived yesterday and I am leaving work at lunchtime to start the
> install. I hope that it has stopped pissing with rain by then! I am not
> going to re-circulate the cabin air as Sailing Today suggests that one
> doesn't benefit from the drying effect though it'll heat up quicker.
***Definitely*** suggest you recirc - it's easier to fit and works better.
I haven't read the ST article but if that's what they say then they are
misleading people. 'The drying effect' is all about relative humidity,
which is temperature dependant. Suppose you have an interior temperature of
15 and an RH of 85%, then if you recycle the air and heat it to, say, 22
then the RH will drop appreciably, thus drying out the fabrics and wood.
There is always plenty of airflow through the boat for the warm,
moisture-laden air to exit. Given that you were worried about the small
difference in fuel prices between oil and electricity, it is surprising that
you'd want to take fresh air straight into the unit for that reason alone.
David
Davey
years ago and it was originally fresh air fed - results were marginal at
best.
Altered it to recirc and the results were VERY much better - warmer, quicker
and dryer and cheaper to run.
BTW - do you mind me asking what you paid for the Eberspacher unit all up
and where from - I have been out sailing today and the air temp is 1 degree
outside and the same below!!!!!!!!!
"Lemain" <lem...@3r.co.uk> wrote in message
news:aop8bs$pik$1...@nntp-m01.news.aol.com...
Lemain
> and where from - I have been out sailing today and the air temp is 1
degree
> outside and the same below!!!!!!!!!
You'll have to ask the others about the Eberspacher - mine is the small
diesel Mikuni, which I fitted in my 26' Centaur. I think that I paid about
£750 for all the bits, straight from the distributor after a bit of
discussion. I bought so much boat gear at that time I've forgotten the
price of the individual items and the receipt isn't to hand. It has a
single heat setting of (from memory) around 1kW which is adequate for us.
If we have 8 degrees outside, it runs for 45 mins to bring the temp up then
for about 10 mins in every hour. It can handle freezing conditions. It's
more than enough for the SW of England.
The only problem is that it does use about 2 or 3 amps for the fans - so if
you anchor from dusk to dawn and want saloon lighting and heating you are
going to cane your batteries. Suppose you had the heater enabled for 14
hours, actually running for 10 hours then that's around 30 Ah for the Mikuni
alone. A nominal 90 Ah battery will probably only have a useful 60 Ah
available while cruising so that's half your available domestic battery
supply for the heating alone! Even an alternator controlled by a smart
controller is going to take an hour to replace that, at best. It all
becomes very marginal if you want to anchor in creeks in peace and quiet in
the later autumn and winter, but is no problem in summertime, or if you are
cruising.
The Centaur is a very solid, heavy boat for its size and holds its heat
well, so it takes a long time to warm up and to cool down again, making it
ideal for diesel heating. With a lighter construction I imagine you'd get a
lot of short-cycling and wide temperature variations.
Graham Frankland
> I haven't read the ST article but if that's what they say then they are
> misleading people. 'The drying effect' is all about relative humidity,
> which is temperature dependant. Suppose you have an interior temperature
of
> 15 and an RH of 85%, then if you recycle the air and heat it to, say, 22
> then the RH will drop appreciably, thus drying out the fabrics and wood.
> There is always plenty of airflow through the boat for the warm,
> moisture-laden air to exit. Given that you were worried about the small
> difference in fuel prices between oil and electricity, it is surprising
that
> you'd want to take fresh air straight into the unit for that reason alone.
>
both methods and found that recirculating the air heats the boat up quicker
but it's no where near as dry. Warm air holds more moisture than cold so
the best way to keep the boat dry is to keep expelling the moist air by
displacing it with heated air from outside. Keeps the boat much fresher as
well by expelling stale air and cooking odours.
Graham.
Lemain
> both methods and found that recirculating the air heats the boat up
quicker
> but it's no where near as dry. Warm air holds more moisture than cold so
> the best way to keep the boat dry is to keep expelling the moist air by
> displacing it with heated air from outside. Keeps the boat much fresher
as
> well by expelling stale air and cooking odours.<<
We just open the hatch a little when we want more fresh air. I don't see
the benefit in bringing in the fresh air through the heater - it only
changes the air while the heater is actually firing so you lose control (you
can always close the hatch!). We don't have a damp problem while we are
aboard.
BTW, not with reference to your posting, it crossed my mind there might be
some confusion with damp caused by unflued heaters. Unflued LPG and
paraffin heaters produce around an equal mass of water to the mass of fuel
burnt, making them very unsuitable for use on small boats.
David
Ralph Ferrand
gdf...@nospam.globalnet.co.uk (Graham Frankland) wrote:
I have more or less finished the installation now. I decided to draw
heater air in from the heads as they have a large ventilator. I normally
keep the bog door closed but I guess that if I wanted to re-circulate I
could open heads door. I feel this should give me the best of both
worlds.
The heater refused to 'fire up' but I guess it will need a bit of gentle
persuasion and I didn't have the time on Saturday.
Rainer Thonnes
> I have more or less finished the installation now. I decided to draw
> heater air in from the heads as they have a large ventilator. I normally
> keep the bog door closed but I guess that if I wanted to re-circulate I
> could open heads door. I feel this should give me the best of both
> worlds.
You've forgotten that the purpose of the ventilators in the heads
is to let the smells out. Now you're deliberately transporting them
into the rest of the boat. Marvellous. Share and share alike is all
very well, but I'd draw the line at olfactory experiences.
> The heater refused to 'fire up' but I guess it will need a bit of gentle
> persuasion and I didn't have the time on Saturday.
It helps to have the engine running when starting it up, that way
there's a better chance of the voltage being high enough. I gather
the controller has a low voltage cutout, which tries to prevent the
pre-heater from draining every last bit of oomph from a battery in
a questionable state of charge.
You may also need to prime/bleed the fuel line.
Ralph Ferrand
>
> You've forgotten that the purpose of the ventilators in the heads
> is to let the smells out. Now you're deliberately transporting them
> into the rest of the boat. Marvellous. Share and share alike is all
> very well, but I'd draw the line at olfactory experiences.
>
My dung emanates a perfume not unlike that of sweet smelling flowers, so
warmed up should enhance the ambience of the saloon, though other mere
mortals will, of course, be banned from bowel movements whilst the heating
is operating ;-)
>
> > The heater refused to 'fire up' but I guess it will need a bit of
> > gentle
> > persuasion and I didn't have the time on Saturday.
>
> It helps to have the engine running when starting it up, that way
> there's a better chance of the voltage being high enough. I gather
> the controller has a low voltage cutout, which tries to prevent the
> pre-heater from draining every last bit of oomph from a battery in
> a questionable state of charge.
>
> You may also need to prime/bleed the fuel line.
>
>
The pump should self-prime. I have made sure that there is diesel as far
as the pump intake. I think that the voltage trip is the most likely cause
of the problem. I have talked with the Eberspacher tech support and they
agreed with me. If it's not that then it has to be a problem with either
the controller or the unit or possibly the loom.
I am tempted to take tomorrow off and go down to Cevema to sort it out.
The Floating Bear
stu...@nospam.thedesignhouse-bristol.co.uk (Ralph Ferrand) wrote:
> if I wanted to re-circulate I
> could open heads door
Cunning plan - well done.
Regards,
Jerry
Alisdair Gurney
"Ralph Ferrand" <stu...@nospam.thedesignhouse-bristol.co.uk> wrote in
message news:memo.2002102...@designhouse.cix.co.uk...
> The heater refused to 'fire up' but I guess it will need a bit of gentle
> persuasion and I didn't have the time on Saturday.
If you can hear the fuel pump clicking then it'll probably take a couple
of attempts to prime the system for the first time. There's a cutout
for low voltage, but there also appears to be a timer which stops
the heater if it hasn't staretd after, say, a minute.
Alisdair
Lemain
> The heater refused to 'fire up' but I guess it will need a bit of gentle
> persuasion and I didn't have the time on Saturday.
Don't forget that the starting amps are very high due to the glow plug. You
must pay very special attention to the size of cable used and keep runs as
short as possible. If using crimp connectors, remember that most people
can't crimp properly using the usual non-ratchet crimper. That includes me,
and I trained as a prototype wireman for MOD projects in my gap year.
Everyone doing crimping on a boat should buy a ratchet crimper (around £15
from those cheap tool stalls). The ratchet crimper will not release the
crimp until the correct pressure has been applied, ensuring a gas-tight cold
weld. If you don't get a *really good* positive and negative feed, you will
have nothing but trouble for evermore.
Good luck! David
Harald Hannelius
> Ralph,
>> It arrived yesterday and I am leaving work at lunchtime to start the
>> install. I hope that it has stopped pissing with rain by then! I am not
>> going to re-circulate the cabin air as Sailing Today suggests that one
>> doesn't benefit from the drying effect though it'll heat up quicker.
> ***Definitely*** suggest you recirc - it's easier to fit and works better.
***Definitely*** suggest you don't recirc. The drying effect *will* be better.
After all, I can take cold air in the cabin, as long as it isn't damp.
Check you my pics on heater install on
http://www.fe83.org/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=album17
It's a Webasto AT2000D, but the install should go the same way in a 28'
yacht.
> I haven't read the ST article but if that's what they say then they are
> misleading people. 'The drying effect' is all about relative humidity,
> which is temperature dependant. Suppose you have an interior temperature of
Correct.
> 15 and an RH of 85%, then if you recycle the air and heat it to, say, 22
> then the RH will drop appreciably, thus drying out the fabrics and wood.
It will, but the moist will still be inside and condensate on the hull or
wherever. Better to blow out the moist and replace the air with air of
*very* low RH. And the drying effect at least doubles.
Ever wonder why the car windows won't clear up if you recirc the air
inside the car?
I where sailing last weekend up here in Finland. We had -12°C in the
morning and there where ice in smaller creeks. No problem with sleeping
since we had +19°C in the cabin and it was very dry inside. No moist
on the windows etc... Warm and cosy..
--
A: Top Posters
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Harald Hannelius
> So does the burner have to be mounted in the cockpit locker? And how much
> space do they take up? My locker is already extremely full.....
We have ours installed in the engine compartment. It has a pipe for
fresh air supply from the cockpit.
Pics on our install:
http://www.fe83.org/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=album17
Servicing could be a pain though, don't know since ours has worked
flawlessly for two years now. <knock knock>
The two best things with installing in the engine compartment:
- It pre-heats the air around the engine so starting while
cold is much easier. Especially since our 1GM doesn't have
glow-plugs
- The engine compartment is probably the most sound-insulated
place onboard. Diesel heaters and the metering pump can be
annoyingly noisy.
Lemain
> It will, but the moist will still be inside and condensate on the hull or
> wherever. Better to blow out the moist and replace the air with air of
> *very* low RH. And the drying effect at least doubles.
Agreed, but that doesn't seem to be a problem here in the South of England.
My parents lived aboard a 45' for 20 years, using mainly electric fan
heaters when in marinas, and had no problems with condensation. We haven't
had any problems on my 26' with diesel heating on recirc. for the last 3
years. Obviously diesel on recirc is identical to electric fan heating, it's
only the source of the energy that is different. For us, condensation is
not a problem *however* when my parent's boat was new, it was a real
nightmare - all the wood drying out, I suppose. my boat was built in 1979,
and again no problems. Maybe it's a new boat issue?
> I where sailing last weekend up here in Finland. We had -12°C in the
> morning and there where ice in smaller creeks. No problem with sleeping
> since we had +19°C in the cabin and it was very dry inside. No moist
> on the windows etc... Warm and cosy..
Here we have high RH - typically 60% - 90% and temperatures from just below
freezing, rising quickly to between 5 and 15 during the day, even in the
winter.
David
Harald Hannelius
> Here we have high RH - typically 60% - 90% and temperatures from just below
> freezing, rising quickly to between 5 and 15 during the day, even in the
> winter.
Sailing weather all year round then ;)
Ralph Ferrand
wrote:
I took yesterday off work to play with the heater. I went through my
install with a fine tooth combe and when I was satisfied I called
Eberspacher tech support. It turns out that the controller was knackered.
Using a jumper I was able to fire it up. It stank a fair bit to start with
but that apparently is normal. I have a new controller so I'll fit that
Friday evening and have a warm night!
I don't buy from cheap tool stalls; if a tool is worth buying ... buy a
decent one. Most of my tools come from Snap-on, including my crimping
tool! I served my time on aircraft and appreciate the value of quality
tools.
Can't wait until Friday
Lemain
>> I don't buy from cheap tool stalls; if a tool is worth buying ... buy a
> decent one. Most of my tools come from Snap-on, including my crimping
> tool! I served my time on aircraft and appreciate the value of quality
> tools.<<
Ralph,
I don't agree with you on that. Some tools only see very little use. e.g.
I bought a cheap pipe cutter to install my boat heating and it did that job
just fine. It has also been pressed into use for a small mod to the fuel
filter and a job on my home boiler. It cost me around £1. The hole saws I
needed to install the Mikuni cost me £4-99 (3 sizes, to cut through the hull
and install the ducting and outlets). How much did you pay? I'm never
likely to want to drill holes of that size again.
My crimper cost me £14; a pro crimper would cost far more. I only crimp
around a dozen connections per year.
I tend to buy the decent tool when I've experienced the cheap one and can
see the value in spending the money. Otherwise, I hire tools. But then my
budget isn't unlimited.
David
Lemain
"Harald Hannelius" <har...@iki.fi.invalid> wrote in message
>> Sailing weather all year round then ;)<<
Hmmm...Try telling my wife that <g>
David
Ralph Ferrand
> I don't agree with you on that. Some tools only see very little use.
> e.g.
> I bought a cheap pipe cutter to install my boat heating and it did that
> job
> just fine. It has also been pressed into use for a small mod to the
> fuel
> filter and a job on my home boiler. It cost me around £1. The hole
> saws I
> needed to install the Mikuni cost me £4-99 (3 sizes, to cut through the
> hull
> and install the ducting and outlets). How much did you pay? I'm never
> likely to want to drill holes of that size again.
>
> My crimper cost me £14; a pro crimper would cost far more. I only crimp
> around a dozen connections per year.
>
> I tend to buy the decent tool when I've experienced the cheap one and
> can
> see the value in spending the money. Otherwise, I hire tools. But
> then my
> budget isn't unlimited.
>
> David
>
>
>
for dried leaves wrapped in paper that were slowly killing me, I started
spending twenty pounds a week on the Snap-On van which would call at my
business premises weekly. Eventually I really couldn't see any point as I
had everything I could ever envisage using after a good few years. I know
have a tool collection that is the envy of many engineers.
I too tried cheapo hole saws for the same reason as you on my first boat,
but was unimpressed by the accuracy of the holes and went out and bought
some proper ones. I needed to buy one extra cutter to install my
Eberspacher which I think cost around a tenner. The hole for the transom
exhaust needs to be cut at an angle of forty five degrees. I personally
would not want to risk such an operation on my boat with anything but the
best tool for the job. I confidently performed a professional quality
installation on by boat saving £500 so the odd tenner for an extra tool I
didn't have is peanuts. I think the original hole saw kit was about £70
and has been money well spent as I have used it over and over again on my
boats saving myself a fortune over the cost of paying someone else.
I don't always buy premium quality professional tools, for instance I
bought some wire-locking pliers from Machine Mart which were professional
but not premium quality. Unlike a cutting tool or a poor quality screw
driver or spanner, they will not cause any damage if they fail to perform
100%. For limited use they are very good. I NEVER buy tools from the
el-cheapo stalls on markets as they are not good value, despite the fact
that they mimic REAL tools and are of low cost. Not spending enough money
on tools is false economy.