Why do ppl have web sites?
Ian Sandell
companies, using contact details on their web sites. 2 responded the
next day, 2 have not respnded at all.
Interesting, it seems that the prettier the site, the worse the
response ( I know small samples make bad statistics).
What are others' experiences?
Ian
Sailor
email Musto customer services then be prepared for a VERY long wait!!!!
On the other hand view GPS warehouses not so flashy but fast loading and
informative website and email them and I doubt you will wait 10 mins for a
reply - even better call them - they are SO knowledgeable and helpful it
almost hard to believe!!
I have no connection with either business except as a customer.
"martin" <mar...@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
news:0qsocvcevlc87riak...@4ax.com...
> Similar :-(
> --
> martin
Brian Walsh
>
>Interesting, it seems that the prettier the site, the worse the
>response ( I know small samples make bad statistics).
>
>What are others' experiences?
>
There's a reason for this.
As a (very) general rule, the 'perfection' of a site is in inverse
proportion to the Net/Web maturity of the organisation.
A classic scenario is where management hand over the design and
implementation of a site to a firm of expensive design muppets, and
restrict their own input to approval of pretty pictures on paper.
The staff at the coalface who have traditionally taken communications
over phone, fax and mail simply are not "with the program". The site
is just another brochure.
I could be completely wrong here :)
There is a test.
Why not telephone the unresponsive companies?
Don't mention the web or your attempts to contact them by email. Just
make whatever inquiry you wanted to make in the first place.
Compare results.
Brian
Mark
"Ian Sandell" <i...@sandell.co.uk> wrote in message
news:r1tncvgbqifiev4eq...@4ax.com...
I e-mailed 4 sailing clubs regarding their learn to sail courses, i.e.
e-mail the club instructor for further details page, 3 didn't respond. We
are now doing the course with the club who responded promptly, they now have
2 new members.
Mark
Stefan Lloyd
"Mark" <anon@_invaild.com> wrote in message
news:R55za.24683$xd5.1...@stones.force9.net...
> e-mail the club instructor for further details page, 3 didn't respond. We
> are now doing the course with the club who responded promptly, they now
have
> 2 new members.
>
I (try) to keep a mailing list of members of the class association I help
run. I can tell you that people change their email addresses extremely
frequently - much more often than real addresses or phone numbers. I'm
therefore not at all surprised that a lot of contact email addresses on
volunteer-run sites like sailing clubs are out of date.
It is all very well to moan at sailing clubs that don't keep web-sites up to
date, but in most cases it will be volunteers doing it in their spare time
with a lot of other things to do (like earning a living or going sailing).
This said with feeling as someone who finds themselves in that position! The
same is almost certainly the case with club instructors.
Sailor
about the PLC's - they have NO excuse!!!!
"Stefan Lloyd" <do...@spam.me> wrote in message
news:baiot4$qbc$1$8302...@news.demon.co.uk...
Meindert Sprang
> run. I can tell you that people change their email addresses extremely
> frequently - much more often than real addresses or phone numbers. I'm
> therefore not at all surprised that a lot of contact email addresses on
> volunteer-run sites like sailing clubs are out of date.
If addresses are that 'volatile', they shouldn't be put on a site as contact
address. I believe it is better to have no website at all than to loose your
credibility with a crappy one.
Meindert
Mark
> news:R55za.24683$xd5.1...@stones.force9.net...
> >
> > "Ian Sandell" <i...@sandell.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:r1tncvgbqifiev4eq...@4ax.com...
> > I e-mailed 4 sailing clubs regarding their learn to sail courses, i.e.
> > e-mail the club instructor for further details page, 3 didn't respond.
We
> > are now doing the course with the club who responded promptly, they now
> have
> > 2 new members.
> >
>
> I (try) to keep a mailing list of members of the class association I help
> run. I can tell you that people change their email addresses extremely
> frequently - much more often than real addresses or phone numbers. I'm
> therefore not at all surprised that a lot of contact email addresses on
> volunteer-run sites like sailing clubs are out of date.
The address was to info@ or training@ which should then be redirected.
>
> It is all very well to moan at sailing clubs that don't keep web-sites up
to
> date, but in most cases it will be volunteers doing it in their spare time
> with a lot of other things to do (like earning a living or going sailing).
> This said with feeling as someone who finds themselves in that position!
The
> same is almost certainly the case with club instructors.
Then they shouldn't advertise sailing courses (for which there is a fee) on
their sites. It makes them look incredibly inept, dosen't matter if they
are volunteers or not, that is a typical cop out reply. If you want a
web-site keep it up to date or get rid of it.
Mark
Mark Hawkins
repair. A quote was provided within a few hours and there was a further
exchange of emails and I got the job done. Unfortunately they got the job
worng so I had to send my daughters foulies back for repair. When I emailed
my complaint - deathly silence! Further emails sent and no reply. I then
sent a message to Kieth Musto and got a reply and a quick solution.
The problem was the customer services mail account. It goes to one person.
When they are on holiday or sick, seems that no one else is covering the
mail box. I think this is true of many companies!
I think mode of communication is irrelavent in any case, it comes down to an
organisations ability/willingness to communicate. You will often have
difficulty in getting responses from other modes such as Snail mail, fax and
phone!.
Haveing had to deal with "Call Centres" for a number of services over the
past few months - a time consuming affair - my preferred mode of
communicating is email. though it does take a few days to get a question
answered from N-Power. But that still beets the pants off listening to muzac
for hours!
Incidentally - has anyone noticed that responses from sa...@company.com gets
a quicker response than customer...@company.com? Same for phone
numbers. The ratio is probaly 250 sales staff to 1 after sales support
person!
"Sailor" <.> wrote in message
news:3ecca46c$0$19598$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
Mark Hawkins
club, the email may be checked on a weekly basis by a volunteer when the
club is open. We have to draw a distinction between profit making businesses
and voluntary orgnisations operating on the good will of volunteers.
"Mark" <anon@_invaild.com> wrote in message
news:R55za.24683$xd5.1...@stones.force9.net...
>
Mark
"Mark Hawkins" <nos...@no.spam.here.please> wrote in message
news:baj1h0$dp1$1...@sparta.btinternet.com...
> Don't be too hard on the clubs. You may find that in the case of a small
> club, the email may be checked on a weekly basis by a volunteer when the
> club is open. We have to draw a distinction between profit making
businesses
> and voluntary orgnisations operating on the good will of volunteers.
>
Well it's coming up to 6 weeks now and none of them have replied.
What I'm trying to get over is. Why bother having websites with information
about sailing courses with dates and costs (one was nearly £200) if no one
replies. Better to have no details then you don't alienate yourself by not
responding and looking as though you can't be bothered.
The club that did this is now better off by at least 2 members. Others
should take note.
Mark
Mark Hawkins
"Mark" <anon@_invalid.com> wrote in message
news:aj8za.24711$xd5.1...@stones.force9.net...
Mark
"Mark Hawkins" <nos...@no.spam.here.please> wrote in message
No they said email training@____.co.uk for more info on courses etc. I'm
afraid if they haven't got their act together then it's their loss. And I'll
bet they are the first to complain about lack of new members.
They should specify a number to call or a time go round or nothing at all.
People get the idea that a website is a great idea, it'll tap into a whole
new audience, well that only works if the data is acurate and responsive, no
matter who you are, whether it's the big boys or a tiny club.
Geoff Richings
and had a reply within half an hour, fully answering my quieries ! -
and their 4mm 1/19 stainless is 86 pence a metre - with 6.00 fixed
postage.
Mark Hawkins
Fair comment. I had better check my site is OK, but then I don't sell things
from it. I have a small techie hitch, on the site which I hope to clear up
soon.
Regards
Mark Hawkins
Mark
"Mark Hawkins" <nos...@no.spam.here.please> wrote in message
>
> >
>
> Fair comment. I had better check my site is OK, but then I don't sell
things
> from it. I have a small techie hitch, on the site which I hope to clear up
> soon.
>
> Regards
> Mark Hawkins
>
> www.atlantis-sailing.org
Had a quick look, and a couple of comments :-
I use Opera (with javascript turned off) and the pages don't render the same
as in IE.
Go to RYA Cruising Scheme then try and select the pages on the table The RYA
Scheme; can't find the links and one points to a gif image?
Easy to read and well laid out though (not sure of red on blue)
/pedantic on
You specify a style sheet but then specify styles for all your tables
(should use div), instead of inserting them in the style sheet.
/pedantic off
Regards
Mark
Mark Hawkins
others as course sylabi will be updated.
M
Sandy Morton
Ian Sandell <i...@sandell.co.uk> wrote:
> In the past couple of weeks I have emailed enquires to purchases to 4
> companies, using contact details on their web sites. 2 responded the
> next day, 2 have not respnded at all.
If you want to hire bikes in Millport you will normally get an email
response to your email question within the hour.
--
A T (Sandy) Morton
on the Bicycle Island
In the Global Village
http://www.sandymillport.fsnet.co.uk
Tony Brooks
wrote:
>In the past couple of weeks I have emailed enquires to purchases to 4
I am sure that you have something.
If the MD decided the co. needs a website the job gets farmed out to a
"specialist". As far as I can see, all they care about is "flashy"
(bith with uppercase and lowercase F :-) ). NO -one else wants
anything to do with the project, so some quiet lowley persons gets
lumbered with it - hense a lack of commitment to it. Look at how may
websites for big organisations are big on graphics and this is who we
are, but have nothing thechnical about the products.
From the otherside now, as an originator and producer of a website
seeking to attract customers (www.reading-college.ac.uk/marine - yes
it is on topic - the yachts are on the index page). I always reply
within 24 hours during the week and set autoreply when I am on holiday
(even although this always produces loads of spam). Potential
customers should expect to be kept informed about there queries. This
is depite a more than full time commitment to other areas.
The web is powerfull, I just hope that the large companies find out
its powerfull to loose them customers whilst the companies offering
the service gains them.
Tony brooks
Simon Brooke
> On Wed, 21 May 2003 22:54:11 +0100, Ian Sandell <i...@sandell.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> >In the past couple of weeks I have emailed enquires to purchases to 4
> >companies, using contact details on their web sites. 2 responded the
> >next day, 2 have not respnded at all.
> >
> >Interesting, it seems that the prettier the site, the worse the
> >response ( I know small samples make bad statistics).
> >
> >What are others' experiences?
> >
> >Ian
>
> I am sure that you have something.
>
> If the MD decided the co. needs a website the job gets farmed out to a
> "specialist". As far as I can see, all they care about is "flashy"
> (bith with uppercase and lowercase F :-) ).
Speaking as someone on the other end (i.e., that specialist) the
problem is usually that the customer doesn't know (and doesn't
understand) what they are buying. The cowboys will make a presentation
to a customer on a large flashy laptop from local disk using lots of
gimmicks and it will look very bright and flashy and the client will
think 'that's what I want' without being aware that the site will take
for ever to download, will be unreadable for a fair proportion of
readers and won't work at all (or only very poorly) on a fair
proportion of browsers, or be usable on a fair proportion of screens.
So when we go along and start talking about bandwidth, and standards,
and accessibility, and flexibilty, and maintainability it all sounds
very dull, and when we start explaining why this or that feature that
the other people have shown them won't work they think either that
we're just being difficult or that we don't actually know how to do
it. So 95% of the time we don't get the job. By 'we' here I mean
anyone who's technically competent and understands the issues, not my
own company specifically.
> From the otherside now, as an originator and producer of a website
> seeking to attract customers (www.reading-college.ac.uk/marine - yes
> it is on topic - the yachts are on the index page).
Rather than a message 'Some Netscape versions do not handle this site
correctly. If so please update or use Internet Explorer', wouldn't it
be simpler and better just to use valid HTML?
--
si...@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; Friends don't send friends HTML formatted emails.
Mark
"Simon Brooke" <si...@jasmine.org.uk> wrote in message
news:87d6iao...@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk...
Mark
Mike Reynolds
"Mark Hawkins" <nos...@no.spam.here.please> wrote in message
news:bajga8$k4d$1...@hercules.btinternet.com...
>
> "Mark" <anon@_invalid.com> wrote in message
> news:t8bza.24767$xd5.1...@stones.force9.net...
> >
> > "Mark Hawkins" <nos...@no.spam.here.please> wrote in message
> > news:bajcaq$cj4$1...@hercules.btinternet.com...
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Fair comment. I had better check my site is OK, but then I don't sell
> > things
> > > from it. I have a small techie hitch, on the site which I hope to
clear
> up
> > > soon.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Mark Hawkins
> > >
> > > www.atlantis-sailing.org
> >
> > Had a quick look, and a couple of comments :-
> >
<Snip of Mark's comments
> > Regards
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> Thanks for the tip - this page is due a complete re-write along with some
> others as course sylabi will be updated.
>
> M
>
>
Being nosey I had a quick look at your site in a number of different
browsers. There is a line in your source code which says:-
<%Set objRenderApp = Nothing%>
This appears on the page in Netscape, Mozilla, Opera and others. It does not
appear in IE.
Am I possibly correct in thinking that when you write your page you view it
in IE to check it?
Even if you use IE as your preferred browser, it is always a good idea to
check your page in as many different browsers as possible. Although, sadly,
the majority of users seem to use IE, it is NOT the only browser in the
world. With AOL changing to use Netscape (which AOL now owns) and with
increasing use of embedded devices, such as set top boxes, where the user
has no choice of which browser to use, the stranglehold that M$ has will
weaken greatly over the next few years.
There is an excellent website at www.anybrowser.org which gives very useful
advice on how to write pages that are non browser specific. (but like
everything else you read on the web apply some critical thought to what you
read)
I hope that you don't feel that I am teaching my grandmother to suck eggs!
Your site is, I must say, is one of the clearest I've seen. Enough images to
be interesting, but the text clearly presented and easy to read and links
that actually take you where you expect.
--
Mike Reynolds
White Elephant
TopCat
<nos...@no.spam.here.please> wrote:
>though it does take a few days to get a question
>answered from N-Power. But that still beets the pants off listening to muzac
>for hours!
Did they screw up your direct debit too, or not tell offgas that you
have changed over so you run into arrears, thus making it difficult to
leave them.
Julian
Mark
"Mike Reynolds" <mike.r...@antlimited.com> wrote in message
news:d4mza.979$og3....@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
It's something to do with ASP, but I no nothing about ASP.
Mark
Tony Brooks
wrote:
Do not I know it, see below. My argument is with the companies who
will not research what they need and then get hoodwinked as you
describe.
>
>
>> From the otherside now, as an originator and producer of a website
>> seeking to attract customers (www.reading-college.ac.uk/marine - yes
>> it is on topic - the yachts are on the index page).
>
>Rather than a message 'Some Netscape versions do not handle this site
>correctly. If so please update or use Internet Explorer', wouldn't it
>be simpler and better just to use valid HTML?
>
>--
Yes - absolutaly agree. Just one problem, I am not a web developer,
and not really concerned with computers (unless you count vehicle
contol ECUs). It took me ages to discover that the long file names
were causing problems for instance, where as I expect you hardly have
to think about it. I really want to go boating at times, and I already
work over 60 hours a week, without adding more time to solve what I
hope is a very small problem. I'd rather give a warning than have the
thing just produce a garbled screen
I was faced with the question - do I do a site with Frontpage (which I
had access to), or do I not do a site. Now the subsiquent feed back I
get suggests that the "warning" is a small price to pay for access to
the information.
Its also very interesting to note that our "professional" web
designers and webmaster (for the main college site) would give no help
in de-bugging and just said that "everyone" is using IE and its not
worth bthering with.
I did my best to sort the problems out, and got more help from urw
than from my employer - they are happy t take the cash it generates
though. The other thing is, I fear there are people using very early
versions of browsers I have no access to.
Tony Brooks
PS I am not moaning, just trying to explain.
Tony Brooks
Yes I second that - if I had time, I would have no MS products on my
computer, but is one should balance the usefullness of the site
against the odd annoyance. As I said, my feedback suggest that, by and
large, the price is considered worth it. I know small samples make bad
stats, but I am talking world wide response here.
Now, when I retire in a year or so !!!!
Tony Brooks
>
Mark
"Tony Brooks" <Mar...@reading-college.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:3ece03ab....@news.cis.dfn.de...
You'll have no excuse :-)
> Tony Brooks
> >
>
Geoff Richings
> companies, using contact details on their web sites. 2 responded the
> next day, 2 have not respnded at all.
>
> Interesting, it seems that the prettier the site, the worse the
> response ( I know small samples make bad statistics).
>
> What are others' experiences?
>
> Ian
pdf - slow at the best of times on dial-up - and of four pages, two
are huge cosmetic graphics filling the whole and more of my 17". It
makes me think that they never try using their own site - and
generally USA sites win hands down for useful info and on-line
pricing. I'm sick of sites that give me pretty pictures of the factory
and staff - then tell me to phone them if I want to buy something !
Ian Sandell
Richings) wrote:
>I went to Marlow Ropes recently - their info page on cruising ropes is
>pdf - slow at the best of times on dial-up - and of four pages, two
>are huge cosmetic graphics filling the whole and more of my 17". It
>makes me think that they never try using their own site - and
>generally USA sites win hands down for useful info and on-line
>pricing. I'm sick of sites that give me pretty pictures of the factory
>and staff - then tell me to phone them if I want to buy something !
I looked at Marlow ropes recently also - quite dreadful. They used to
get the same info onto one double sided pamphlet.
I think you are right - all webmasters should be made to use their own
sites.
Ian
PS Can you send me a picture of your 17" ? Or are you just boosting?
Tee
wrote:
>On 23 May 2003 15:03:30 -0700, geoff...@btinternet.com (Geoff
Yes, but using a 2400 BPS modem over their private phone line.
Ian Sandell
And with B&W screen - using Lynx!
Ian
Mark Hawkins
"TopCat" <jool...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:qksrcvo4a4g1bdsqs...@4ax.com...
No nothing that drastic. It was a trivial thing where I wanted to change
from billing to DD. Once I got in touch things happend, but it did take 17
emails and 4 phone calls
Mark Hawkins
"Mike Reynolds" <mike.r...@antlimited.com> wrote in message
news:d4mza.979$og3....@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
>
>
mind. It was written in Frontpage. A lot of it boils down to time, but next
phase will be checked with Netscape and opera
Mark Hawkins
"Tee" <hot...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ce8tcvoumm8as3atn...@4ax.com...
Mini-M to pull down email in the Congo! At $1.5 per min, this is where spam
really bites into your pocket!
Stefan Lloyd
> Then they shouldn't advertise sailing courses (for which there is a fee)
on
> their sites. It makes them look incredibly inept, dosen't matter if they
> are volunteers or not, that is a typical cop out reply. If you want a
> web-site keep it up to date or get rid of it.
>
If you want to be dealt with as a client, go to a commercial sailing
school - there are plenty around. With a few exceptions, sailing clubs are
members' clubs. The advantage of learning via a club is that it leaves you
with an infrastructure to keep sailing after the course is over - or at
least it should. But if you think most clubs are in a position to act like
profit-making companies - think again.
I run a business, and I also help run a class association. There is a world
of difference. Volunteers are not employees, and most clubs are run on a
shoe-string.
I do hope you get involved with the club after your course. I suspect it
might open your eyes.