Hawke Surfcat
Jon
Anyone have or know where I can get my hands on a manual for the above boat.
I've just bought it and am having a bit of trouble rigging it.
Thanks for any help you can give.
Jon.
Pete
>
> Hi.
>
> Anyone have or know where I can get my hands on a manual for the above boat.
> I've just bought it and am having a bit of trouble rigging it.
No but tell us what your problems are and we'll try to help.
Pete
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
pete....@virgin.net
www.the-proof-reader.co.uk
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"No Homer, very few cartoons are broadcast live - it's a terrible strain
on the animator's wrist."
Jon
"Pete" <pete....@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:3C723C8F...@virgin.net...
The problem is mainly with attaching and raising the sails.
The line for raising the mainsail is half wire and half rope with a ball
half way along it's length (at the point where wire becomes rope). At the
top of the mast is 2, what looks like, nylon pulley wheels. I have worked
out (and by asking the previous owner) that the mainsail attaches to the
line at the wire end using a turnbuckle. What worries me is that this means
that the wire will run over the nylon pulley wheels when raising the sail.
The information gives by the previous owner was not that reliable as he
hadn't sailed that particular boat for some years. Does the above sound
right to anyone? I had presumed, perhaps incorrectly, that the rope end of
the line would run over the pulleys. Any thoughts?
Also has anyone any thoughts regarding beginning my sailing using a
catamaran to learn on? i.e.good idea or bad idea.
Thanks in advance for any help/advice you may be able to provide.
Jon.
Andy Champ
> The problem is mainly with attaching and raising the sails.
>
> The line for raising the mainsail is half wire and half rope with a ball
> half way along it's length (at the point where wire becomes rope). At the
> top of the mast is 2, what looks like, nylon pulley wheels. I have worked
> out (and by asking the previous owner) that the mainsail attaches to the
> line at the wire end using a turnbuckle. What worries me is that this means
> that the wire will run over the nylon pulley wheels when raising the sail.
>
> The information gives by the previous owner was not that reliable as he
> hadn't sailed that particular boat for some years. Does the above sound
> right to anyone? I had presumed, perhaps incorrectly, that the rope end of
> the line would run over the pulleys. Any thoughts?
>
> Also has anyone any thoughts regarding beginning my sailing using a
> catamaran to learn on? i.e.good idea or bad idea.
>
> Thanks in advance for any help/advice you may be able to provide.
>
> Jon.
>
>
>
Terminology: Halliard: rope (or wire) for raising a sail. Origin:
Haul Yard - early sails were always affixed to a yard, which is a
stonking great bit of wood.
Sheave: A pulley wheel. Commonly one fixed somewhere, as opposed to
being in a block that can swing about.
wire halliards are quite common. The wire is far stronger and less
stretchy than the rope part, so the top of the sail will stay where you
put it.
It's more common to have metal sheaves for wire rope, as otherwise they
do wear out rather fast. Can't imagine though why you have two at the
top of the mast. Usually the halliard goes inside the mast; you pull
the bit where it comes out at the bottom, and this makes the sail go up
at the top. There's often a hook or something to fasten the end of the
wire bit (where there is a loop), or else a fancy wire-to-rope splice
and a cleat. I have a thing called a halliard rack, which is basically
a bit of metal with 8 or so hooks all in a row so I can choose the one
that puts the sail at the right height.
As you have a ball half way along, yours cannot do this - the ball would
get stuck inside the mast....
I'm sure there must be a Dart owners association, or else go along to a
sailing club where they are sailed and ask for help, it's always easier
to look at the way someone else is doing it.
Andy.
--
My real mail is Andy at Champ dash family dot freeserve dot net
Jon
"Andy Champ" <andy....@read.my.sig> wrote in message
news:3C72DD64...@read.my.sig...
> Never sailed a Dart however....
The boat is actually a Hawke Surfcat made in Australia by the Hawke
brothers. I'm sure Darts are similar but this boat is probably over 5 years
old now.
> Terminology: Halliard: rope (or wire) for raising a sail. Origin:
> Haul Yard - early sails were always affixed to a yard, which is a
> stonking great bit of wood.
>
> Sheave: A pulley wheel. Commonly one fixed somewhere, as opposed to
> being in a block that can swing about.
Thanks for the terminology. "Sailing for dummies" Hasn't quite stuck in my
head yet ;-)
> wire halliards are quite common. The wire is far stronger and less
> stretchy than the rope part, so the top of the sail will stay where you
> put it.
>
> It's more common to have metal sheaves for wire rope, as otherwise they
> do wear out rather fast. Can't imagine though why you have two at the
> top of the mast. Usually the halliard goes inside the mast; you pull
> the bit where it comes out at the bottom, and this makes the sail go up
> at the top. There's often a hook or something to fasten the end of the
> wire bit (where there is a loop), or else a fancy wire-to-rope splice
> and a cleat. I have a thing called a halliard rack, which is basically
> a bit of metal with 8 or so hooks all in a row so I can choose the one
> that puts the sail at the right height.
>
> As you have a ball half way along, yours cannot do this - the ball would
> get stuck inside the mast....
>
> I'm sure there must be a Dart owners association, or else go along to a
> sailing club where they are sailed and ask for help, it's always easier
> to look at the way someone else is doing it.
>
> Andy.
>
>
>
> --
> My real mail is Andy at Champ dash family dot freeserve dot net
>
I think my best bet is to post pictures of my set-up to my webpage. I think
when you can see what's available it may make diagnosis easier. Weather
permitting I'll take and post the pictures tomorrow and provide the url
here.
Thanks.
Jon.
Andy Champ
> The boat is actually a Hawke Surfcat made in Australia by the Hawke
> brothers. I'm sure Darts are similar but this boat is probably over 5 years
> old now.
Ahh. I assumed it was Hawk as in Dart Hawk.
Piccies definitely called for. Especially in view of the enormous
response you are getting!
Andy.
Pete
>
<snip>
> The information gives by the previous owner was not that reliable as he
> hadn't sailed that particular boat for some years. Does the above sound
> right to anyone? I had presumed, perhaps incorrectly, that the rope end of
> the line would run over the pulleys. Any thoughts?
Sorry about the slow response. I'm not here every day.
Most cats set the main from a hook just below the top of the mast, using
some form of fixed dummy halyard to get it there.
The reason is to do with the fairly major amount of tension applied to
the sail and the difficulty of securely and effectively cleating that
off at the foot of a (usually) rotating mast.
Hobies use one system, Darts another and Hurricanes another still.
Typically, you use the halyard to raise the main, lock it off at the
head of the mast, stow the halyard at the mast foot and tension the foot
of the sail using a downhaul/cunningham/kicker. Dropping the main
involves (on Darts) rotating the mast away from the hook, pulling the
main up and off it and then lowering it.
Is there anything like a hook at the head of the mast?
>
> Also has anyone any thoughts regarding beginning my sailing using a
> catamaran to learn on? i.e.good idea or bad idea.
There's nothing wrong with learning from scratch on a cat but be aware
that you're climbing onto a super bike and not auntie's moped. Things
can go wrong, otherwise life would be very dull, but when it does go
wrong, it usually happens quickly and spectacularly. You do not want to
dent yourself, your pride and joy or put yourself off ever going out
again.
Launching/landing a cat requires a slightly different technique to a
dinghy. Cats don't tack on a penny and you will need a clear
understanding of what to do and what not to do, how to go about doing it
correctly and a fair measure of confidence.
I strongly suggest you master rigging the boat (on dry land, head to
wind and at first NOT on a windy day, otherwise you might be asking
about broken sail battens and glass fibre repairs). Get yoursel' down to
a club which sails cats and just watch and ask. Also try the local
library or chandlery and look for any book by Brian Phipps - Catamaran
sailing is one which comes to mind.
I'm beginning to think that a few quid spent on a taster lesson with the
Cat Clinic (surf around The Laser Centre website) would be a seriously
sound investment. TEll us which bit of the world you're in and I'll try
to direct you to your nearest cat club. Mail me off-group if you like.
> Thanks in advance for any help/advice you may be able to provide.
The way the wind's blowing and the rain's coming down sideways, I wish I
still had my Dart!
Pete
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peter Ansbro Proof-reading
pete....@virgin.net
www.the-proof-reader.co.uk
07813 651620
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Adding quality for you
Pete
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peter Ansbro Proof-reading
pete....@virgin.net
www.the-proof-reader.co.uk
07813 651620
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Make the most of today - you won't get a second chance!
Pete
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
pete....@virgin.net
www.the-proof-reader.co.uk
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right
to say it." Attributed to Voltaire.
Jon
rusty.
The url with the pictures on is http://www.starfleet-academy.fsnet.co.uk/
Hope those help.
Thanks
Jon.
"Andy Champ" <andy....@read.my.sig> wrote in message
news:3C757C09...@read.my.sig...
Jon
<snip>
> Sorry about the slow response. I'm not here every day.
>
No problem. I try to drop by everyday but have been a bit busy myself.
>
> Most cats set the main from a hook just below the top of the mast, using
> some form of fixed dummy halyard to get it there.
>
> The reason is to do with the fairly major amount of tension applied to
> the sail and the difficulty of securely and effectively cleating that
> off at the foot of a (usually) rotating mast.
>
> Hobies use one system, Darts another and Hurricanes another still.
>
> Typically, you use the halyard to raise the main, lock it off at the
> head of the mast, stow the halyard at the mast foot and tension the foot
> of the sail using a downhaul/cunningham/kicker. Dropping the main
> involves (on Darts) rotating the mast away from the hook, pulling the
> main up and off it and then lowering it.
>
> Is there anything like a hook at the head of the mast?
>
>
Yes. Front of the mast. See pictures on
http://www.starfleet-academy.fsnet.co.uk/
Still not sure how that halliard fixes though.
> >
> > Also has anyone any thoughts regarding beginning my sailing using a
> > catamaran to learn on? i.e.good idea or bad idea.
>
> There's nothing wrong with learning from scratch on a cat but be aware
> that you're climbing onto a super bike and not auntie's moped. Things
> can go wrong, otherwise life would be very dull, but when it does go
> wrong, it usually happens quickly and spectacularly. You do not want to
> dent yourself, your pride and joy or put yourself off ever going out
> again.
>
I was warned about that. Previous owner asked me not to go out in too much
of a breeze ;-)
> Launching/landing a cat requires a slightly different technique to a
> dinghy. Cats don't tack on a penny and you will need a clear
> understanding of what to do and what not to do, how to go about doing it
> correctly and a fair measure of confidence.
>
> I strongly suggest you master rigging the boat (on dry land, head to
> wind and at first NOT on a windy day, otherwise you might be asking
> about broken sail battens and glass fibre repairs). Get yoursel' down to
> a club which sails cats and just watch and ask. Also try the local
> library or chandlery and look for any book by Brian Phipps - Catamaran
> sailing is one which comes to mind.
Thanks. I'll check on amazon for that. I think I bought "Sailing for
dummies" (don't laugh) in preference but I can always get the other.
> I'm beginning to think that a few quid spent on a taster lesson with the
> Cat Clinic (surf around The Laser Centre website) would be a seriously
> sound investment. TEll us which bit of the world you're in and I'll try
> to direct you to your nearest cat club. Mail me off-group if you like.
>
>
I tend to agree with you on that. I'm in North Yorkshire. Near Selby. Pretty
much out in the sticks but only approx 5 miles from that East Cowick sailing
club.
> > Thanks in advance for any help/advice you may be able to provide.
>
> The way the wind's blowing and the rain's coming down sideways, I wish I
> still had my Dart!
>
Your a braver man that I. In the wind we've been having Standing is hard
enough let alone sailing.
Pete
>snip<
> Yes. Front of the mast. See pictures on
> http://www.starfleet-academy.fsnet.co.uk/
>
> Still not sure how that halliard fixes though.
Got it. Hobie system. Raise the main, hook the wire uphaul ball under
the hook, thus keeping the sail up and simply stow the fall of the dummy
halyard string around the cleat at the foot of the mast.
> I was warned about that. Previous owner asked me not to go out in too much
> of a breeze ;-)
Not until you're completely hooked by cat sailing and know what you
think you're doing.:-)))))
> I tend to agree with you on that. I'm in North Yorkshire. Near Selby. Pretty
> much out in the sticks but only approx 5 miles from that East Cowick sailing
> club.
Handily placed for cat sailing eh>? LOL
Have a look here for local clubs:
As to the jib, the Dart uses a dummy halyard and a running wire strop -
bugger this is hard to describe in a hurry - you need the Brian Phipps
book.
> Your a braver man that I. In the wind we've been having Standing is hard
> enough let alone sailing.
Go back to the website, find "Humour" then "Beaufort". That'll give you
a clue what cat sailing is like:-))
Jon
>snip<
> > Yes. Front of the mast. See pictures on
> > http://www.starfleet-academy.fsnet.co.uk/
> >
> > Still not sure how that halliard fixes though.
>
> Got it. Hobie system. Raise the main, hook the wire uphaul ball under
> the hook, thus keeping the sail up and simply stow the fall of the dummy
> halyard string around the cleat at the foot of the mast.
>
Bit of a problem with that. If I raise the main with the wire end of the
halliard running through the sheaves at the top of the mast, the ball comes
too far down the mast to engage with the hook. From what I can tell, with
the length of the halliard, the hook would need to be near the bottom of the
mast. Just in case this bit of info helps, the halliard is just about twice
the length of the mast. Half wire, half rope, with the ball at the join
between the two.Bit of a brain teaser this one (well it is for me!)
I just ordered the book you recommended from amazon so that might help.
>
> > I was warned about that. Previous owner asked me not to go out in too
much
> > of a breeze ;-)
>
> Not until you're completely hooked by cat sailing and know what you
> think you're doing.:-)))))
LOL.
> > I tend to agree with you on that. I'm in North Yorkshire. Near Selby.
Pretty
> > much out in the sticks but only approx 5 miles from that East Cowick
sailing
> > club.
>
> Handily placed for cat sailing eh>? LOL
Handy when I have transport yeah.
> Have a look here for local clubs:
>
> http://www.dart15.com/
>
> As to the jib, the Dart uses a dummy halyard and a running wire strop -
> bugger this is hard to describe in a hurry - you need the Brian Phipps
> book.
Ah now there's a thing. I work for the guy who sold me the cat. He 'thinks'
he has the jib but isn't sure. He was convinced there was bits missing,
that's why I got the thing for £200, but so far the jib is the only thing
missing.
> > Your a braver man that I. In the wind we've been having Standing is hard
> > enough let alone sailing.
>
> Go back to the website, find "Humour" then "Beaufort". That'll give you
> a clue what cat sailing is like:-))
>
Checked it out, printed it out, showed it to boss, he laughed.
>
> Pete
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> pete....@virgin.net
> www.the-proof-reader.co.uk
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> "No Homer, very few cartoons are broadcast live - it's a terrible strain
> on the animator's wrist."
>
Thanks for the help & recommendations.
Jon.
Pete
>
>snippety snip<
> Bit of a problem with that. If I raise the main with the wire end of the
> halliard running through the sheaves at the top of the mast, the ball comes
> too far down the mast to engage with the hook. From what I can tell, with
> the length of the halliard, the hook would need to be near the bottom of the
> mast. Just in case this bit of info helps, the halliard is just about twice
> the length of the mast. Half wire, half rope, with the ball at the join
> between the two.Bit of a brain teaser this one (well it is for me!)
Er. Of course the thing has to be long enough to stay in place with the
sail down (I recall the Dart's uphaul was >2x the mast length, but then
it went up the outside of the mast (not necessary for it to run in the
luff groove), and down the inside, exiting at the mast foot. You pulled
up the main, hooked it on at the top of the mast (the Dart has a ring on
the end of the uphaul where it secures to the head of the sail) and then
you pulled the luff down under tension with the downhaul/kicker.
I know the Hobie 17 had a fork at the front of the mast which you pulled
a ball into as previously described because I used to be very near one
in a dinghy park but where did the uphaul run?? Can't remember but it
must have run up the aft face of the mast, exited through a sheave at
the top of so on.... Maybe a Hobie sailor can put us right here please?
Is there any possibility that your uphaul runs down and back up the
mast?
> I just ordered the book you recommended from amazon so that might help.
>
It'll not solve these rigging problems but it will show you how to sail
a cat.
> Ah now there's a thing. I work for the guy who sold me the cat. He 'thinks'
> he has the jib but isn't sure. He was convinced there was bits missing,
> that's why I got the thing for £200, but so far the jib is the only thing
> missing.
You may be better off learning to sail without it (unarigged) at first
but my advice is to get it or whatever bits he's got and make a fuss
about it. You wouldn't believe what new would cost you and I'd go so far
as to suggest that a new one may not be economically viable on a 200
quid boat.
> Checked it out, printed it out, showed it to boss, he laughed.
That's how it is:-)